Introduction
Here is a brief introduction to the Paneris collective. The core memebers are highly qualified programmers:| Tim Pizey | 39 | MSc in AI from Edinburgh |
| Tim Joyce | 29 | Freelance java programmer |
| Myles Chippendale | 29 | 2.1 in Maths (Oxford), Distinction in AI MSc Edinburgh |
| William Chesters | 28 | 1st Maths and Philosophy (Oxford), MSc AI Edinburgh |
- CV conversion and upload
- Java Servlets
- Database connectivity to the web (Access, Oracle, Ingress ....)
- Java applets
- Older CGI techniques in Perl.
- Artificial Intelligence based relevance ranking
- Shockwave
hello
\' \'hello\' is not a word of text) words of the page: words of text plus all the tags we are interested in, and comments. (e.g. in the small page \'hello
\', \'hello\' is a word of the page) When we count keyword matches we need an exact (but case-insenstive) match, i.e. the keyword \'java\' will be found in \'Java\' but not \'JavaScript\'; When we count links out, we don\'t include links in image maps. If one of the tags we are interested in is nested inside another tag we are interested in, then the number of words is added to the total for the outer tag, and not the inner tag. e.g. In \'A clickable heading
\' the analysis will show 3 words in tags, and non in tags.
It is possible that the page has changed it\'s content between the
search engine analysing it, and us retreiving it !
Try altering the timeout if you have problems retreiving pages or
reference counts (\'links to\' figures).
If we cannot retreive your page then no data is printed out for it.
Your url must include the \'http://\' bit!
Let me know what you reckon,
Myles
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9281,'Fri Mar 12 9:31:20 1999','Re: Re: next step',1,9278,'
>What\'s webmacro?
just some technology that makes it easy to build cool interactive websites.
>I\'ve also put some thought into this and should have an outline finished on
>Saturday.
great
timj
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9282,'Fri Mar 12 14:20:11 1999','We have competition...',2,0,'
Boys,
Run, don\'t walk, to
http://www.webdeveloper.com/categories/management/manage_reviews_webposition.html
and see what the rest of the world is doing about increasing
search engine positions.
Myles
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9283,'Fri Mar 12 15:07:38 1999','Re: We have competition...',1,9282,'
>http://www.webdeveloper.com/categories/management/manage_reviews_webposition.html
Afam has looked at this. It is only competition in that it is a product that does a similar thing, the completely different pricing structures mean that we are not in competition in the conventional sense. it is a downloadable product that uses an offline database (of some sort) to work out what your keywords should be.
also interesting is a product by http://www.mi2g.com/. there is noting on their site, but I saw a brochure yesterday (obtained after signing an nda, but not by me).
The have a product that alleges (i paraphrase):
"over $3m spent on advanced ai programms on supercomputers that analyise how search engines behave has produced a product that builds the perfect page from a search engine\'s perspective"
they basically build different "landing pages" for each search engine. this is probably a good idea, as a \'best fit\' model is not going to delivery the best results for all engines.
their pricing model is also interesting, following a set-up fee (about $1000), they get paid on results ($1000 for per "top 10 placement", $2000 for a top 5 etc).
customers allegedly include amazon, ebay and all the usual suspects.
it interesting that they are so secretive about it, from which i conculde (pick 1):
1) if it was exposed to mass market it would loose it\'s value as you cannot get paid by 100 customers if you only get paid for top 10 placements.
2) the algorithm could be very simple and easy to reproduce if only someone else has the idea!
these 2 products appear similar. our\'s is different (as it does the analysis live).
timj
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9284,'Mon Mar 15 7:20:38 1999','Re: Re: We have competition...',105,9283,'Posted on behalf of Afam by TimJ
Hi
i) I\'ve upgraded to WebPosition Gold (the product may also be able to give
us some extra information that may help develop our product), I will let you
know how I get on.
ii) Faced with our first competition (even before we\'ve launched).
Cons
WebPosition Gold is more comprehensive than what we are developing - it
generates pages (something we were looking at doing in a later version), as
well as critiquing pages (which is what we were are doing), it manages your
doorway pages, submits them automatically (something that is easy to add),
it reports your ranking in the engines (something that is also easy to add)
and it analyses traffic to your site (it has some benefits, but most people
can do it themselves from their log files, though it also - and I haven\'t
yet tried this feature - tells you which search engines are giving you
traffic and which key words they are using). In addition it is updated
regularly over the web (something that ours being a web product does
automatically).
Pros
It cost $150, which you pay whether your registering one site or 100s, (ours
starts from $10).
You have a heft 3.5 MB download (ours works as you go - we could even add an
email version).
I have the following comments
I feel that our unique business model, and lower entry cost counts in our
favour.
I also feel that we may have to offer a page generator, jump page manager,
auto submitter and WebPosition report in addition to our critique service if
we are to be viable.
Some parts of the functionality seem easy to develop - jump page manager,
auto submitter and WebPosition reporter. I\'m uncertain what\'s involved in
developing a page generator. But,
We now have a product that we can reverse engineer and improve upon - we can
see how their page generator works.
I\'ve attached a copy of an outline for the web site - please feedback
comments, input, improvements, and omissions.
I think we also need to make progress on the name, having reviewed TimJ\'s
suggestions and mine, I feel the choice should be between;
keywordassistant.com
searchwordassistant.com
searchalyser.com
The other good one trafficgenerator.com has also been taken.
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9285,'Mon Mar 15 7:39:50 1999','Re: Re: Re: We have competition...',1,9284,'
>Cons
>WebPosition Gold is more comprehensive than what we are developing - it
>generates pages (something we were looking at doing in a later version)
I feel this is important
>well as critiquing pages (which is what we were are doing),
>it manages your
>doorway pages,
what does this involve?
>submits them automatically (something that is easy to add),
easyish, I guess we are only interested in 10 odd engies, so it is not too bad.
>it reports your ranking in the engines (something that is also easy to add)
yep
>and it analyses traffic to your site (it has some benefits, but most people
>can do it themselves from their log files, though it also - and I haven\'t
>yet tried this feature - tells you which search engines are giving you
>traffic and which key words they are using).
webtrends and most log file analysis programs do this, we should pick one and partner with them, we don\'t have to reinvent the wheel on this one.
>In addition it is updated
>regularly over the web (something that ours being a web product does
>automatically).
what gets updated? does it do the analysis online or againsed a local database?
>Pros
>It cost $150, which you pay whether your registering one site or 100s, (ours
>starts from $10).
we need to think about how people are going to use it, they may well want to create their page, run it through the engine, make changes, and submitit again (and again) until it is correct. how do we propose handling this?
>You have a heft 3.5 MB download
I downloaded the starwars trailer on friday (25MB), 3.5 MB is not big. btw the download was worth it.
>(ours works as you go - we could even add an
>email version).
umm, not sure about this.
>I have the following comments
>I feel that our unique business model, and lower entry cost counts in our
>favour.
yep, www.submitit.com has worked on a similar model for a long time now.
>I also feel that we may have to offer a page generator, jump page manager,
>auto submitter and WebPosition report in addition to our critique service if
>we are to be viable.
yep, one step at a time. the other thing to do is collect feedback from our customers! won\'t that be nice.
>Some parts of the functionality seem easy to develop - jump page manager,
>auto submitter and WebPosition reporter. I\'m uncertain what\'s involved in
>developing a page generator. But,
>We now have a product that we can reverse engineer and improve upon - we can
>see how their page generator works.
this is useful
>
>I\'ve attached a copy of an outline for the web site - please feedback
>comments, input, improvements, and omissions.
coming.
>keywordassistant.com
my favorite.
timj
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9286,'Mon Mar 15 9:17:23 1999','free or pay',1,0,'
All,
The competition (costs $150) vs our cost of $10 per shot, is NOT a \'no brainer\' for the customer, therefor i think it could impact hard on our business.
Afam - what kind of income could we expect from advertising if the service was free?
I would like to consider launching the site as free to use, this has a number of advantages:
1) If it doesn\'t work, we are not going to get into trouble
2) We can launch sooner (as a beta), and use customers for testing. With competition already out there, we cannot afford to hang arround.
3) The site is significantly less complex (no need for user accounts, credit cards, affiliates etc).
4) using keywordassistant vs WebPosition does become a \'no brainer\'
5) we are more likely to build a large user base (this is the genuine value in the product, whitness someoneorother buying geocities last week).
6) we cannot be undercut by someone launching a free service - which would put us out of business overnight.
7) we can launch without offering all the services offered by WebPosition.
8) we can look to sell \'value added\' services such as consultancy. this is much more inline with our current approach to business. whitness the \'sale\' of the PMS.
9) we are in a positioon to run a free service (due to our near zero overheads) whereas any competition probably will not be.
10) if we can knock WebPosition off the top spot for this kind of service, we will have hit the bigtime. I will expand on this in a minute - I just have to do an interview for wired :-)
Against this model is the fact that it may be difficult to more to a pay model in the future as our customers will probably not stand for it, although we would be able to ask them first.
thoughts?, I am not going to do any work on the site etc, as this decision will seriously affect what we do.
timj
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9287,'Mon Mar 15 10:52:54 1999','Re: free or pay',1,9286,'
>
>The competition (costs $150) vs our cost of $10 per shot, is NOT a \'no
brainer\' for the customer, therefor i think it could impact hard on our
business.
Your right it\'s not a total no brainer, however it does mean that we will
get our own fair market share.
>Afam - what kind of income could we expect from advertising if the service
was free?
Can\'t say precisely, but we were looking at 25,000 visitors per month by the
end of this year, if the service was free, then we could easily get 4 times
that number possibly up to ten times. If each looked at 10 pages, then
1,000,000 to 2.5 million page impressions at $10 per thousand impressions is
between $120,000 to $300,000 per year (annualised), and probably triple that
in year 2.
>I would like to consider launching the site as free to use, this has a
number of advantages:
I must agree that the free use has its advantages (I had toyed with the
idea, but whittled it down to a free trial). I think the arguments you\'ve
put forward are compelling - key one being within 3 months someone will
launch a free service.
I also feel that in addition to advertising we can later on introduce a
keyword assistant deluxe version (which we can charge for), the deluxe
version will give the user additional features (e.g. ongoing management of
position, autogenerated monthly reports, etc.)
I\'m for going free.
>1) If it doesn\'t work, we are not going to get into trouble
>2) We can launch sooner (as a beta), and use customers for testing. With
competition already out there, we cannot afford to hang arround.
>3) The site is significantly less complex (no need for user accounts,
credit cards, affiliates etc).
>4) using keywordassistant vs WebPosition does become a \'no brainer\'
>5) we are more likely to build a large user base (this is the genuine value
in the product, whitness someoneorother buying geocities last week).
>6) we cannot be undercut by someone launching a free service - which would
put us out of business overnight.
>7) we can launch without offering all the services offered by WebPosition.
>8) we can look to sell \'value added\' services such as consultancy. this is
much more inline with our current approach to business. whitness the \'sale\'
of the PMS.
>9) we are in a positioon to run a free service (due to our near zero
overheads) whereas any competition probably will not be.
>10) if we can knock WebPosition off the top spot for this kind of service,
we will have hit the bigtime. I will expand on this in a minute - I just
have to do an interview for wired :-)
>
>Against this model is the fact that it may be difficult to more to a pay
model in the future as our customers will probably not stand for it,
although we would be able to ask them first.
We would look to introduce better (more feature rich product) that people
will pay for, whilst allowing people continued access to the free product.
Almost like free web space, which is only free untill you want your own
domain name, comprehensive site logs, run scripts, etc.
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9288,'Mon Mar 15 10:56:14 1999','Re: Re: free or pay',1,9287,'
>>Afam - what kind of income could we expect from advertising if the service
>was free?
>between $120,000 to $300,000 per year (annualised), and probably triple that
>in year 2.
I\'ll buy into this. We should remember that with this much traffic, we are likely to be paying for bandwith (which is currently more-or-less free).
>>I would like to consider launching the site as free to use, this has a
>number of advantages:
>I must agree that the free use has its advantages (I had toyed with the
>idea, but whittled it down to a free trial). I think the arguments you\'ve
>put forward are compelling - key one being within 3 months someone will
>launch a free service.
>I also feel that in addition to advertising we can later on introduce a
>keyword assistant deluxe version (which we can charge for), the deluxe
>version will give the user additional features (e.g. ongoing management of
>position, autogenerated monthly reports, etc.)
>I\'m for going free.
cool.
>We would look to introduce better (more feature rich product) that people
>will pay for, whilst allowing people continued access to the free product.
>Almost like free web space, which is only free untill you want your own
>domain name, comprehensive site logs, run scripts, etc.
cool.
timj
(sorry previous message was pp Afam - Afam, if possible, can you use the messageboards - you can\'t yet mail to them).
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9289,'Mon Mar 15 11:39:55 1999','Webposition Gold',105,0,'Posted on behalf of Afam by TimP
Please find attached
i) page generated by web position gold to do well on HotBot for marketing, online marketing, internet marketing.
ii) analysis of that same page by web position gold.
Interesting points are:
i) they are using exactly the same variables as we are (though not going into as much details on the position of the key words).
ii)there analysis says shows that the page they generated is n\'t really that good and needs some work to improve it (hence to get a good position), also all their jump pages are the same it\'s just a template that slots in the key word. Nothing sophisticated at all.
Afam Edozie
Tel: +44 181 933 1838
Fax: +44 181 201 8055
Mobile: +44 802 663 669
Afam@marketing4technology.com
www.marketing4technology.com
_________________________________
The auto market supports Mercedes Benz, Volkswage, Ford, Vauxhall, Fiat and dozens of other manufacturers,
The PC market supports, Dell, IBM, Compaq, and a few others,
The OS markets suppports, Windows, mac, UNIX, Linux,
The Browser market supports Navigator, Explorer, Opera
Surely the web tool market will support WebPosition and US
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9290,'Mon Mar 15 11:42:14 1999','Re: free or pay',105,9286,'Posted on behalf of Afam by TimP
>All,
>
>The competition (costs $150) vs our cost of $10 per shot, is NOT a \'no
brainer\' for the customer, therefor i think it could impact hard on our
business.
Your right it\'s not a total no brainer, however it does mean that we will
get our own fair market share.
>Afam - what kind of income could we expect from advertising if the service
was free?
Can\'t say precisely, but we were looking at 25,000 visitors per month by the
end of this year, if the service was free, then we could easily get 4 times
that number possibly up to ten times. If each looked at 10 pages, then
1,000,000 to 2.5 million page impressions at $10 per thousand impressions is
between $120,000 to $300,000 per year (annualised), and probably triple that
in year 2.
>I would like to consider launching the site as free to use, this has a
number of advantages:
I must agree that the free use has its advantages (I had toyed with the
idea, but whittled it down to a free trial). I think the arguments you\'ve
put forward are compelling - key one being within 3 months someone will
launch a free service.
I also feel that in addition to advertising we can later on introduce a
keyword assistant deluxe version (which we can charge for), the deluxe
version will give the user additional features (e.g. ongoing management of
position, autogenerated monthly reports, etc.)
I\'m for going free.
>1) If it doesn\'t work, we are not going to get into trouble
>2) We can launch sooner (as a beta), and use customers for testing. With
competition already out there, we cannot afford to hang arround.
>3) The site is significantly less complex (no need for user accounts,
credit cards, affiliates etc).
>4) using keywordassistant vs WebPosition does become a \'no brainer\'
>5) we are more likely to build a large user base (this is the genuine value
in the product, whitness someoneorother buying geocities last week).
>6) we cannot be undercut by someone launching a free service - which would
put us out of business overnight.
>7) we can launch without offering all the services offered by WebPosition.
>8) we can look to sell \'value added\' services such as consultancy. this is
much more inline with our current approach to business. whitness the \'sale\'
of the PMS.
>9) we are in a positioon to run a free service (due to our near zero
overheads) whereas any competition probably will not be.
>10) if we can knock WebPosition off the top spot for this kind of service,
we will have hit the bigtime. I will expand on this in a minute - I just
have to do an interview for wired :-)
>
>Against this model is the fact that it may be difficult to more to a pay
model in the future as our customers will probably not stand for it,
although we would be able to ask them first.
We would look to introduce better (more feature rich product) that people
will pay for, whilst allowing people continued access to the free product.
Almost like free web space, which is only free untill you want your own
domain name, comprehensive site logs, run scripts, etc.
>thoughts?, I am not going to do any work on the site etc, as this decision
will seriously affect what we do.
>
>timj
>
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9291,'Mon Mar 15 11:59:32 1999','Re: Webposition Gold',3,9289,'
I have uploaded the attached files.
They can be found at:
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/webalyser/FutureFantanstic.htm
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/webalyser/Marketing-HotBot.htm
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/webalyser/Marketing-HotBot1.htm
yours
timP
PS Afam do you know how to use the message boards?
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9292,'Mon Mar 15 12:16:28 1999','Naming Webalyser',3,0,'
My 2p:
the main lesson I learnt from webalyser is that the
word in question should be in the URL.
If we need to use two words then I think they should be
separated by a hyphen.
So:
http://www.web-position.com - exists
http://www.position-assistant.com - doestn\'t
So I would vote for position-assistant
yours
timP
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9293,'Mon Mar 15 12:36:52 1999','Re: Naming Webalyser',1,9292,'
>So I would vote for position-assistant
umm, I think the work \'keyword\' needs to be in there as this what they are going to type into search engines.
what about (in order of my preference):
keyword-adviser
keyword-advise
keyword-helper
keyword-help
keyword-assistant
>If we need to use two words then I think they should be
separated by a hyphen.
umm, I\'m not sure, I\'ve never liked this. Afam - What is best from the search engines perspective?
timj
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9294,'Mon Mar 15 12:56:04 1999','Re: Re: Naming Webalyser',2,9293,'
>
>>So I would vote for position-assistant
>umm, I think the work \'keyword\' needs to be in there as this what they are going to type into search engines.
Perhaps. When I was testing I used "improve search engine placement"
which may or may not be representative of what people will
search for :-)
[snip]
Myles
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9295,'Mon Mar 15 13:17:41 1999','Way forward',2,0,'
All,
As I see it, we have broken the back of the \'technical\' work,
or at least got to a point we can work from. The question now
is gaining more knowledge about how search engines actually
do their indexing and we can improve sites to improve their
search ranking. WebPosition obviously has much of this imformation,
and we need it too! I think this should be our next priority
in developing Webalyser (or whatever it ends up being called).
I like the idea of free searches, perhaps charging for more
value-added services such as providing tips on improving ranking
using our "knowledge base". It seems to me that we could make
some money like that. But remember, as a marketer, I make
a reasonable programmer! My point is that we\'ve now got to get
a bit more business like about all this, and I know f**k all
about that stuff! We can have talks about how to develop our
knowledge base, but I suspect that a bit of experience will be
worth a lot of theory here.
In short, I vote that Afam is the man with the knowledge in this
domain and that he should be pushing us to develop the product
and website.
What does anyone think?
Myles
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9296,'Mon Mar 15 17:44:43 1999','Re: Way forward',105,9295,'Posted on behalf of Afam by Mylesc
>New message at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/M4T/webalyser/messages/29.shtml
>
>Subject: Way forward
>From: Myles (mylesc@i-way.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
>All,
>
>As I see it, we have broken the back of the \'technical\' work,
>or at least got to a point we can work from.
Spot on, we currently have a piece of software that works.
The question now
>is gaining more knowledge about how search engines actually
>do their indexing and we can improve sites to improve their
>search ranking. WebPosition obviously has much of this information,
>and we need it too! I think this should be our next priority
>in developing Webalyser (or whatever it ends up being called).
i) we have most of the information in the tool. The key step is for the tool
to look at what those doing well are doing and recommend that the person
submitting do the same.
ii) I am going through web position gold to find out what we have missed.
iii) if any one needs a copy of this please let me know, I\'ll email it (hmm,
I guess we will be violating the license terms - I wonde if First Software
are monitoring from the web?)
>I like the idea of free searches, perhaps charging for more
>value-added services such as providing tips on improving ranking
>using our "knowledge base". It seems to me that we could make
>some money like that. But remember, as a marketer, I make
>a reasonable programmer! My point is that we\'ve now got to get
>a bit more business like about all this, and I know f**k all
>about that stuff! We can have talks about how to develop our
>knowledge base, but I suspect that a bit of experience will be
>worth a lot of theory here.
>In short, I vote that Afam is the man with the knowledge in this
>domain and that he should be pushing us to develop the product
>and website.
I\'m all in favour of getting the product developed, I also think that the
discussion around what we want to achieve is also useful (every one has some
experience in what works and doesn\'t work on the web - and ideas for
business models can come from anyone). However, that\'s as long as the debate
doesn\'t run on too long.
>What does anyone think?
My suggested roadmap to go forward is:
i) complete the analysis part of the product, this will include: working on
other search engines, developing a format to present the results to the user
in an easily absorbable manner (I\'m going to develop a number of formats and
post them for comments), and recommending changes to the users page (e.g.
put 2 more phrases with key words in your title tags, increase the number of
words on the page, etc.)
ii)develop a page generator (really just an input form linked to a
template) - the analysis product will then tell the user how to improve
this.
iii)develop an auto submitter - so once they\'ve uploaded their new page to
their site they can then autosubmit it to the preferred engines.
iv)develop a reporter to show people where they are on the engines.
v) I suggest we stop here for the free service and launch the product with
just this.
Launch would include: Press release (key way of getting early publicity),
cross linking program, search engine registrations, banner ads (exchange
program), newsgroups/emailing list posts, ads on emailing lists (Internet
Advertising, Internet Sales, LinkExchange Digest, WebPromote - this is the
only expensive part, but will get us known with the core group of people who
promote web sites),
vi) Develop the Deluxe version, which people pay maybe $100/year; $20/URL,
$2/searchterm/engine or something like that.
Deluxe version will enable user to a) track pages generated - date created,
date registered, date appeared in search engine, key words, engine it was
developed for, b) compare their current position against their last one
(report available on line AND automatically sent by email each month), and
c)
schedule re-submissions every week, month, etc (depending on the requirement
of the search engine. Obviously we charge more for weekly vs. monthly).
Though I\'m fully in support of advertising generated revenue, I feel that;
i)
even Yahoo, Excite, et al are looking for getting additional revenue
streams; ii) maintaining the site and staying ahead of the competition will
require some overheads. WebPosition Gold is not the ultimate end for
FirstPlaceSoftware even now they will be working on the next wave.
Regards
Afam
PS: Oh yes and we need to develop the web site :-)
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9297,'Mon Mar 15 19:04:52 1999','Re: Re: Way forward',2,9296,'
>>All,
>>
>>As I see it, we have broken the back of the \'technical\' work,
>>or at least got to a point we can work from.
>Spot on, we currently have a piece of software that works.
>>The question now
>>is gaining more knowledge about how search engines actually
>>do their indexing and we can improve sites to improve their
>>search ranking. WebPosition obviously has much of this information,
>>and we need it too! I think this should be our next priority
>>in developing Webalyser (or whatever it ends up being called).
>i) we have most of the information in the tool. The key step is for the tool
>to look at what those doing well are doing and recommend that the person
>submitting do the same.
That\'s the difficult bit! Can you come up with some
proposals for how to do this?
[snip]
>My suggested roadmap to go forward is:
>i) complete the analysis part of the product, this will include: working on
>other search engines, developing a format to present the results to the user
>in an easily absorbable manner (I\'m going to develop a number of formats and
>post them for comments), and recommending changes to the users page (e.g.
>put 2 more phrases with key words in your title tags, increase the number of
>words on the page, etc.)
>ii)develop a page generator (really just an input form linked to a
>template) - the analysis product will then tell the user how to improve
>this.
All good.
>iii)develop an auto submitter - so once they\'ve uploaded their new page to
>their site they can then autosubmit it to the preferred engines.
I don\'t think we need these 2 for the beta product, myself.
We can use SubmitIt (covertly or otherwise) or develop one
later (it\'s basically not that trivial).
>iv)develop a reporter to show people where they are on the engines.
Again, maybe for a bit later?
>v) I suggest we stop here for the free service and launch the product with
>just this.
>Launch would include: Press release (key way of getting early publicity),
>cross linking program, search engine registrations, banner ads (exchange
>program), newsgroups/emailing list posts, ads on emailing lists (Internet
>Advertising, Internet Sales, LinkExchange Digest, WebPromote - this is the
>only expensive part, but will get us known with the core group of people who
>promote web sites),
>vi) Develop the Deluxe version, which people pay maybe $100/year; $20/URL,
>$2/searchterm/engine or something like that.
>Deluxe version will enable user to a) track pages generated - date created,
>date registered, date appeared in search engine, key words, engine it was
>developed for, b) compare their current position against their last one
>(report available on line AND automatically sent by email each month), and
>c)
>schedule re-submissions every week, month, etc (depending on the requirement
>of the search engine. Obviously we charge more for weekly vs. monthly).
>Though I\'m fully in support of advertising generated revenue, I feel that;
>i)
>even Yahoo, Excite, et al are looking for getting additional revenue
>streams; ii) maintaining the site and staying ahead of the competition will
>require some overheads. WebPosition Gold is not the ultimate end for
>FirstPlaceSoftware even now they will be working on the next wave.
>Regards
>Afam
>PS: Oh yes and we need to develop the web site :-)
Myles
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9298,'Tue Mar 16 15:00:04 1999','Re: Re: Re: Way forward',105,9297,'
-----Original Message-----
From: multiboard@paneris.co.uk
To: Afam@marketing4technology.com ; lurker@paneris.co.uk
Date: 15 March 1999 19:05
Subject: Re: Re: Way forward [/partners/M4T/webalyser/ by Mylesc]
>New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/M4T/webalyser/messages/31.shtml
>
>Subject: Re: Re: Way forward
>From: Mylesc (mylesc@i-way.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
>>>All,
>>>
>>>As I see it, we have broken the back of the \'technical\' work,
>>>or at least got to a point we can work from.
>
>>Spot on, we currently have a piece of software that works.
>
>
>>>The question now
>>>is gaining more knowledge about how search engines actually
>>>do their indexing and we can improve sites to improve their
>>>search ranking. WebPosition obviously has much of this information,
>>>and we need it too! I think this should be our next priority
>>>in developing Webalyser (or whatever it ends up being called).
>
>
>>i) we have most of the information in the tool. The key step is for the tool
>>to look at what those doing well are doing and recommend that the person
>>submitting do the same.
>
>That\'s the difficult bit! Can you come up with some
>proposals for how to do this?
I\'ve started work on a comprehensive doc that takes the data that comes out of keywordassistant and recommends what to do to a web page to improve it.
I\'ve already used keyword assistant to develop a couple of jump pages (unfortunately, the key variable for AltaVista is linking - if theirs any fast and easy way to get loads of links pointing at a site from lots of different URLs then there\'s another product idea/development - I would have said registering 100 URLs and charging people for links, but my feel is that search engines will soon classify these as SPAM urls).
I\'m hoping to finish it one evening this week, if not then it will be on Saturday.
>[snip]
>
>>My suggested roadmap to go forward is:
>
>>i) complete the analysis part of the product, this will include: working on
>>other search engines, developing a format to present the results to the user
>>in an easily absorbable manner (I\'m going to develop a number of formats and
>>post them for comments), and recommending changes to the users page (e.g.
>>put 2 more phrases with key words in your title tags, increase the number of
>>words on the page, etc.)
>
>>ii)develop a page generator (really just an input form linked to a
>>template) - the analysis product will then tell the user how to improve
>>this.
>
>All good.
>
>
>>iii)develop an auto submitter - so once they\'ve uploaded their new page to
>>their site they can then autosubmit it to the preferred engines.
>
>I don\'t think we need these 2 for the beta product, myself.
>We can use SubmitIt (covertly or otherwise) or develop one
>later (it\'s basically not that trivial).
>
>>iv)develop a reporter to show people where they are on the engines.
>
>Again, maybe for a bit later?
>
>>v) I suggest we stop here for the free service and launch the product with
>>just this.
>
>>Launch would include: Press release (key way of getting early publicity),
>>cross linking program, search engine registrations, banner ads (exchange
>>program), newsgroups/emailing list posts, ads on emailing lists (Internet
>>Advertising, Internet Sales, LinkExchange Digest, WebPromote - this is the
>>only expensive part, but will get us known with the core group of people who
>>promote web sites),
>
>>vi) Develop the Deluxe version, which people pay maybe $100/year; $20/URL,
>>$2/searchterm/engine or something like that.
>
>>Deluxe version will enable user to a) track pages generated - date created,
>>date registered, date appeared in search engine, key words, engine it was
>>developed for, b) compare their current position against their last one
>>(report available on line AND automatically sent by email each month), and
>>c)
>>schedule re-submissions every week, month, etc (depending on the requirement
>>of the search engine. Obviously we charge more for weekly vs. monthly).
>
>>Though I\'m fully in support of advertising generated revenue, I feel that;
>>i)
>>even Yahoo, Excite, et al are looking for getting additional revenue
>>streams; ii) maintaining the site and staying ahead of the competition will
>>require some overheads. WebPosition Gold is not the ultimate end for
>>FirstPlaceSoftware even now they will be working on the next wave.
>
>>Regards
>
>>Afam
>
>>PS: Oh yes and we need to develop the web site :-)
>
>
>Myles
>
>
>
>Brought to you by http://www.paneris.co.uk/.
Afam Edozie
Tel: +44 181 933 1838
Fax: +44 181 201 8055
Mobile: +44 802 663 669
Afam@marketing4technology.com
www.marketing4technology.com
_________________________________
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9299,'Fri Mar 19 13:07:50 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Way forward',105,9298,'
I\'ve spoken with Lesley.
Promised her a proposal (which she can share with her management) by monday.
Also sent her Netscape 4 CDROM so she can see what everyone else sees and so she cn use newsgroups.
Regards
Afam
>-----Original Message-----
>From: multiboard@paneris.co.uk
>To: Afam@marketing4technology.com ; lurker@paneris.co.uk
>Date: 15 March 1999 19:05
>Subject: Re: Re: Way forward [/partners/M4T/webalyser/ by Mylesc]
>
>>New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/M4T/webalyser/messages/31.shtml
>>
>>Subject: Re: Re: Way forward
>>From: Mylesc (mylesc@i-way.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>>
>>>>All,
>>>>
>>>>As I see it, we have broken the back of the \'technical\' work,
>>>>or at least got to a point we can work from.
>>
>>>Spot on, we currently have a piece of software that works.
>>
>>
>>>>The question now
>>>>is gaining more knowledge about how search engines actually
>>>>do their indexing and we can improve sites to improve their
>>>>search ranking. WebPosition obviously has much of this information,
>>>>and we need it too! I think this should be our next priority
>>>>in developing Webalyser (or whatever it ends up being called).
>>
>>
>>>i) we have most of the information in the tool. The key step is for the tool
>>>to look at what those doing well are doing and recommend that the person
>>>submitting do the same.
>>
>>That\'s the difficult bit! Can you come up with some
>>proposals for how to do this?
>I\'ve started work on a comprehensive doc that takes the data that comes out of keywordassistant and recommends what to do to a web page to improve it.
>I\'ve already used keyword assistant to develop a couple of jump pages (unfortunately, the key variable for AltaVista is linking - if theirs any fast and easy way to get loads of links pointing at a site from lots of different URLs then there\'s another product idea/development - I would have said registering 100 URLs and charging people for links, but my feel is that search engines will soon classify these as SPAM urls).
>I\'m hoping to finish it one evening this week, if not then it will be on Saturday.
>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>My suggested roadmap to go forward is:
>>
>>>i) complete the analysis part of the product, this will include: working on
>>>other search engines, developing a format to present the results to the user
>>>in an easily absorbable manner (I\'m going to develop a number of formats and
>>>post them for comments), and recommending changes to the users page (e.g.
>>>put 2 more phrases with key words in your title tags, increase the number of
>>>words on the page, etc.)
>>
>>>ii)develop a page generator (really just an input form linked to a
>>>template) - the analysis product will then tell the user how to improve
>>>this.
>>
>>All good.
>>
>>
>>>iii)develop an auto submitter - so once they\'ve uploaded their new page to
>>>their site they can then autosubmit it to the preferred engines.
>>
>>I don\'t think we need these 2 for the beta product, myself.
>>We can use SubmitIt (covertly or otherwise) or develop one
>>later (it\'s basically not that trivial).
>>
>>>iv)develop a reporter to show people where they are on the engines.
>>
>>Again, maybe for a bit later?
>>
>>>v) I suggest we stop here for the free service and launch the product with
>>>just this.
>>
>>>Launch would include: Press release (key way of getting early publicity),
>>>cross linking program, search engine registrations, banner ads (exchange
>>>program), newsgroups/emailing list posts, ads on emailing lists (Internet
>>>Advertising, Internet Sales, LinkExchange Digest, WebPromote - this is the
>>>only expensive part, but will get us known with the core group of people who
>>>promote web sites),
>>
>>>vi) Develop the Deluxe version, which people pay maybe $100/year; $20/URL,
>>>$2/searchterm/engine or something like that.
>>
>>>Deluxe version will enable user to a) track pages generated - date created,
>>>date registered, date appeared in search engine, key words, engine it was
>>>developed for, b) compare their current position against their last one
>>>(report available on line AND automatically sent by email each month), and
>>>c)
>>>schedule re-submissions every week, month, etc (depending on the requirement
>>>of the search engine. Obviously we charge more for weekly vs. monthly).
>>
>>>Though I\'m fully in support of advertising generated revenue, I feel that;
>>>i)
>>>even Yahoo, Excite, et al are looking for getting additional revenue
>>>streams; ii) maintaining the site and staying ahead of the competition will
>>>require some overheads. WebPosition Gold is not the ultimate end for
>>>FirstPlaceSoftware even now they will be working on the next wave.
>>
>>>Regards
>>
>>>Afam
>>
>>>PS: Oh yes and we need to develop the web site :-)
>>
>>
>>Myles
>>
>>
>>
>>Brought to you by http://www.paneris.co.uk/.
>Afam Edozie
>Tel: +44 181 933 1838
>Fax: +44 181 201 8055
>Mobile: +44 802 663 669
>Afam@marketing4technology.com
>www.marketing4technology.com
>_________________________________
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9300,'Fri Mar 19 13:16:09 1999','keyword assistant',105,0,'
I\'ve posted a brief for the analysis module at http://www.marketing4technology.com/keywordassistant/
What I\'m proposing is that:
The module creates a range between the maximum number of words and average number of words for the top 10 sites for each keyword search.
It then sees if the users page is inside or outside the range
If its inside then it does nothing.
If its outside then it tell the user to increase or reduce the number of words.
It does for all words and key words (as described in the document).
regards
Afam
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9301,'Fri Mar 19 13:37:38 1999','Change...?',2,0,'
Dear all,
Presently we check any META tags with a name of "keywords"
and "content". I think we either need to include "description"
META tags, or replace the "content" one with it.
Thoughts,
Myles
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9302,'Thu Mar 25 11:22:18 1999','Conference Call',105,0,'
Hi
I\'m trying to set up a conference call to discuss Webalyser
i) unfortunately, my phone only supports 2 other callers (i.e. maximum of 3 parties). Does everyone have
the facility to use the microsoft product netmeetings?
ii)how does friday at 4.00pm sound?
Regards
Afam
PS: I will circulate an agenda ahead of the meeting.
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9303,'Tue Apr 6 12:01:15 1999','Another similar site',2,0,'
http://www.scrubtheweb.com/abs/meta-check.html
Myles
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9304,'Tue Apr 13 14:33:30 1999','Re: Another similar site',105,9303,'
Hi
Got back this morning. Site seems rather basic and only looks at metatags (which are less than 10% of what it takes to get a good position).
I think we\'ll beat the pants off this one.
Cheers
Afam
>http://www.scrubtheweb.com/abs/meta-check.html
>Myles
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9305,'Fri May 7 9:54:08 1999','Some good guidelines',2,0,'
All,
See http://www.internetday.com/archives/050699.html
What are we now doing about webalyser? Are we not bothering
anymore?
Myles
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9306,'Fri May 7 15:01:10 1999','Re: Some good guidelines',105,9305,'
Myles
Thanks for your email.
Last conversation I had with Tim was that everyone was busy on a big project for two to three weeks, and would not be able to work on key word assistant over the period.
Three weeks has since passed. I am very enthusiastic about progressing the project.
I believe the best way forward is as follows.
Agree the level of functionality at launch,
Develop the software to work on other search engines, and
Develop the tips and critic section.
1. Functionality
My recommendation is that at launch the product does 3 things.
a) develops a jump page for those who don\'t already have one. User will input i) key words, ii) URL, iii) search engine jump page to be used on, and iv) company or web site name. The software will choose a template based on (iii) target search engine. The software will input i), ii), and iv) into the template (in much the same way as a form letter or mail merge works).
b) criticises the page generated in (a) above or criticises a page at a URL the user enters.
c) Keeps a database of pages that have been created and enables the user to ftp them onto their site. Database will contain i) name of page generated, ii) user name or person who generated page, iii) target search engine for that page, iv) target key words, v) date generated, vi) date last edited.
2. Develop prototype for othe search engines.
I recommend the following search engines
Excite
WebCrawler
Lycos
InfoSeek
AltaVista (has already been done)
HotBot
3. I will develop a page that shows typical output from the page critic this weekend. I already have a good database that contains 90% of the criteria for ranking pages.
I believe this should be the basis of Version 1 of the web site.
I also beleive once we are agreed as to what we need to do we should set some deadlines. If we don\'t put a stake in the ground and work towards the project may drift.
At a later date we can review Version 2 of the site, which will contain extra funtionality which the user will have to pay to use (leaving the version 1 functionality still free).
Comments please
Afam Edozie
Tel: +44 181 933 1838
Fax: +44 181 201 8055
Mobile: +44 802 663 669
Afam@marketing4technology.com
www.marketing4technology.com
_________________________________
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9307,'Sun May 9 12:07:28 1999','Re: Re: Some good guidelines',105,9306,'
All
Please find below my view of the input and output for key word assisitant.
Software counts the number of words in each section of the users page.
Software counts the number of words in each section of the top 10 pages.
Software computes the minimum number of appearances, the maximum number of appearances and the mode number of appearances.
Software compares the mode to the number of words in the users page.
It then displays the following message (displaying increase or decrease depending on whether the users is higher or lower).
Most sites that do well have (mode) words in the (section) part of the page. None have less than (min) or more than (max). We suggest that you (increase/decrease) the number of words to (mode).
Software counts the number of times the keyword appears in each section of the users page.
Software counts the number of times the keyword appears in each section of the top 10 pages.
Software computes the minimum number of appearances, the maximum number of appearances and the mode number of appearances.
Software compares the mode to the number of appearances in the users page.
It then displays the following message (displaying increase or decrease depending on whether the users is higher or lower).
The keyword appears (mode) times in the (section), on pages that do well on (search engine). It never appears less than (min) or more than (max). We suggest that you (increase/decrease) the number of keywords to (mode).
Sections the software looks at.
1. URL
2. Meta keywords
3. Meta description
4. Title tags
5. Alt tags
6. Hyperlinks
7. Hyperlink URLs
8. Heading tags
9. Comments tags
10. Text displayed by the browser (text in body tags and excluding text that is not displayed)
11. Total page
For the following sections the software only does the keyword part of the analysis.
1. First 50 words of the page
2. First 200 words of the page
3. First 500 words of the page
4. Last 50 words of the page
n.b. Infoseek and Lycos support word stemming, we will need to gain access to the stemming database they use (and include an option to enable or disable word stemming or not to word stem) - word stemming occurs when market is included in a keyword search for marketing.
Comments please
Afam Edozie
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9308,'Wed May 19 13:52:44 1999','Another site',2,0,'
http://www.did-it.com/
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9309,'Thu May 20 16:43:10 1999','Re: Another site',105,9308,'
>http://www.did-it.com/
Myles
Saw the site, it looks pretty good.
I think its another example of a site validating our approach.
They are charging between $99 and $399 for what we are providing for free.
I couldn\'t tell whether or not the registration process is fully automated (or if they have manual intervention).
Unless they are fully automated they would find it difficult to compete with us.
I guess the key next step is putting the stake in the ground, and galvanising everyones attention by setting a target launch date.
Has anyone had any thoughts re a time table.
Regards
Afam Edozie
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9310,'Wed May 26 8:21:41 1999','Re: Re: Another site',1,9309,'
>I guess the key next step is putting the stake in the ground, and galvanising everyones attention by setting a target launch date.
>Has anyone had any thoughts re a time table.
All,
I am currently very busy, and doing a lot of very exciting programming. There are also a couple of big projects on the horizon. For this reason, I am not going to be able to contribute as much time to webalyser as I had hoped. I am still very interested in the project, and will contriblute when I can, but I won\'t be able to \'drive\' the project in any way.
Appologies,
timj
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9311,'Wed May 26 19:19:27 1999','Re: Re: Re: Another site',105,9310,'
Keyword Assistant: The way forward.
I feel that this project is slipping and will continue to slip as long as its a pet project. On the web 3 months is a long time and we\'ve been talking around this project for over 3 months.
Roughly speaking how many development hours are we looking at for the technology (I\'m trying to determine if we can pay some one to do the coding)?
Can anyone commit a certain number of hours to the project?
Does anyone have any ideas on how best to move forward?
Regards
Afam
Afam Edozie
Tel: +44 181 933 1838
Fax: +44 181 201 8055
Mobile: +44 802 663 669
Afam@marketing4technology.com
www.marketing4technology.com
_________________________________
>>I guess the key next step is putting the stake in the ground, and galvanising everyones attention by setting a target launch date.
>>Has anyone had any thoughts re a time table.
>All,
>I am currently very busy, and doing a lot of very exciting programming. There are also a couple of big projects on the horizon. For this reason, I am not going to be able to contribute as much time to webalyser as I had hoped. I am still very interested in the project, and will contriblute when I can, but I won\'t be able to \'drive\' the project in any way.
>Appologies,
>timj
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9312,'Wed May 26 19:27:11 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Another site',2,9311,'
>Keyword Assistant: The way forward.
>I feel that this project is slipping and will continue to slip as long as its a pet project. On the web 3 months is a long time and we\'ve been talking around this project for over 3 months.
>
>Roughly speaking how many development hours are we looking at for the technology (I\'m trying to determine if we can pay some one to do the coding)?
I reckon 50-150 (depending on the level of functionality)
>Can anyone commit a certain number of hours to the project?
I don\'t at the minute - things might change. However, I
have put some amount of time into this already and sort of
feel that its someone else\'s turn.
>Does anyone have any ideas on how best to move forward?
>Regards
>Afam
Myles
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9313,'Thu Jul 1 23:50:14 1999','Using Usenet',3,0,'
This product does a very similar thing to webalyser, and the
marketting words are very good.
http://www.snagit.com/products/nmonger/overview.htm
yours
TimP
','f','',49,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
50,'5star','5star Project',850,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/5star/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/5star/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9314,'Thu Mar 18 17:47:16 1999','5star problems',1,0,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by Mylesc
Chippy,
We have the go-ahead for this one (2 hours), do you have time to take a look?
You should have all the correspondence.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: James Webb
To: Tim Joyce
Date: 15 March 1999 17:00
Subject: Re: Problem at 5 Star
>Hi Tim,
>
>Sounds good to me, here\'s a login and password for FTP and Telnet:
>
>Login: ********
>Pass: ******** (case sensitive)
>
>Look for the "5Star" directory, everything is under there. You\'ll find
>all the cgi scripts in the 5 Star directory and all the .doc files that are
>used with them in the 5star/data/docs directory.
>
>Let me know If you have any questions and I\'ll get back to you asap.
>You can call me on: 0181-488-1701 or email me.
>
>
>I must confess to knowing next to nothing about C or CGI, I\'m
>a plain HTML man myself. I couldn\'t believe how quickly this guy
>put these scripts together and how much easier the site is to maintain.
>I don\'t know what happened to him, he lives in the US, he could be
>dead for all I know. But I would like very much to keep things on
>a similar footing If I can. Oh and go easy on the bill, I\'m not earning
>a fortune out of this site yet :)
>
>Let me know what you think.
>
>James.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
>James Webb
>Applications Coordinator & Webmaster
>5 Star Internet Shareware for Win95,98,NT
>http://www.5star-shareware.com
>Free downloads of Internet Shareware and Freeware.
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Tim Joyce wrote:
>
>> James,
>>
>> We can certainly have a look at the problem and work out a solution for you. Do you know what operating system is the site is
>> running under?
>>
>> The best way forward is probably:
>>
>> 1) Let us have _any_ documentation for the interactive (scripted) bits of the site.
>> 2) Let us have ftp (and telnet?) ids and passwords.
>> 3) Give us a couple (2) hours to work out what to do about the immediate problem.
>>
>> We will then propose (and cost) a way to fix it. We will also give you costs for a plan to make the site maintainable in the
>> medium/long term.
>>
>> HOOP charge £40 (ex VAT) per hour.
>>
>> Please let me know if this is sensible, and we\'ll take a look at the problem.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Tim Joyce
>> Chief Enthusiast
>> HOOP Ltd
>> tim@hoop.co.uk
>> http://www.hoop.co.uk
>> +44 1202 251 816
>>
>> HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
>> Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Webb
>> To: Tim Joyce
>> Date: 15 March 1999 13:03
>> Subject: Re: Problem at 5 Star
>>
>> >Hi Tim,
>> >
>> >Thanks for getting in touch, I was just waiting to see If the original programmer
>> >was going to finally get in touch but alas no. This guy programmed the c for most
>> >of the site in return for a load of free advertising but now he seems to have
>> >disappeared of the face of the planet.
>> >
>> >I don\'t know If Antony put your in the picture but this is the situation.
>> >The script I am having problems with counts all the downloads for the day
>> >and displays the results in a nice table on the Top Downloads page. You
>> >can see how it is displayed by clicking on the Top Downloads link from
>> >the home page of our UK mirror at NSM http://www.5star.nsm.co.uk.
>> >The NSM script is still working although the amount of downloads here
>> >is low. It should automatically update at midnight every night.
>> >
>> >I first noticed that the script was not working correctly the day after
>> >I sent my latest newsletter out to 11,000 subscribers. I checked the Top
>> >Downloads page and because the amount of downloads for a few programs
>> >was over the one thousand mark for that particular day, the script went
>> >haywire and displayed 9 digit downloads for every other program.
>> >I panicked and uploaded the topdownloads.cgi script from NSM to
>> >Maytech hoping it would correct the problem but the page then refused
>> >to load completely.
>> >
>> >I\'m afraid I haven\'t got the source code for any of the scripts on my website
>> >and I\'m sure I will experience more problems in the future. I tried at one time
>> >to obtain the source but this guy refused to let it out of his sight. I\'ll be more
>> >careful next time.
>> >
>> >Any help or suggestions for correcting this problem would be appreciated.
>> >
>> >Look forward to hearing from you.
>> >
>> >James.
>> >
>> >-----------------------------------------------------
>> >James Webb
>> >Applications Coordinator & Webmaster
>> >5 Star Internet Shareware for Win95,98,NT
>> >http://www.5star-shareware.com
>> >Free downloads of Internet Shareware and Freeware.
>> >-----------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >Tim Joyce wrote:
>> >
>> >> James,
>> >>
>> >> Please get in touch if you need some help. I think we could even russle up a C programmer if you need it.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Tim Joyce
>> >> Chief Enthusiast
>> >> HOOP Ltd
>> >> tim@hoop.co.uk
>> >> http://www.hoop.co.uk
>> >> +44 1202 251 816
>> >>
>> >> HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
>> >> Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Antony Freeman
>> >> To: james@5star-shareware.com
>> >> Cc: tim@hoop.co.uk
>> >> Date: 13 March 1999 18:14
>> >> Subject: Re: Problem at 5 Star
>> >>
>> >> >Someone who may be able to help you is Tim Joyce tim@hoop.co.uk. If you have
>> >> >the source I would think they can fix it. If you don\'t they could rewrite it,
>> >> >preferably, I would say, in perl or java.
>> >> >
>> >> >A.
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Ant,
>> >> >
>> >> > The script counts all the downloads for the day and displays the
>> >> > results in a nice table on the top downloads page. It automatically
>> >> > updates at midnight every night.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, I panicked and uploaded the topdownloads.cgi script from NSM
>> >> > hoping it would correct the initial problem I had. The original problem
>> >> > reared its ugly head the day after I sent my latest newsletter out to
>> >> > 11,000
>> >> > subscribers. I checked the Top Downloads page and because the amount
>> >> > of downloads for a few programs was over the one thousand mark for that
>> >> > particular day, the script went haywire and displayed 9 digit downloads
>> >> > for every other program.
>> >> >
>> >> > As soon as I uploaded the topdownloads.cgi script from NSM to Maytech
>> >> > the page refused to load completely. What a balls up! I suppose I will
>> >> > have
>> >> > to try and find someone who has knowledge of C. I trusted Ray, but he\'s
>> >> > let
>> >> > me down badly
>> >> >
>> >> > James.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Antony Freeman wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > I see the file is dated Mar 10th, was it replaced at that time?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > A.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > -----------------------------------------------------
>> >> > James Webb
>> >> > Applications Coordinator & Webmaster
>> >> > 5 Star Internet Shareware for Win95,98,NT
>> >> > http://www.5star-shareware.com
>> >> > Free downloads of Internet Shareware and Freeware.
>> >> > -----------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> >
','f','',50,0,0);
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51,'LSN','LSN Project',851,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/LSN/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/LSN/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9315,'Tue Sep 21 10:52:03 1999','Sparks Spec',117,0,'Posted on behalf of David Stone by TimP
Tim,
Sorry about the delay, but getting myself ready for an extended trip has not
not been easy. Here is what I know about network project from OCS.
OCS has been approached by a language school in Cowley to set them up with a
small LAN and email for the pupils. The school has currently got six PCs
(reasonably modern) for the students and about three very old Macs for the
staff. It would be good to link all the machines on a single mixed network,
but there will be no great problems if the Macs are not included.
Key requirement is for multiple and constantly changing email addresses. The
school has approx. 200 pupils, some of whom stay for many months and some
who are here for just a few weeks. As I understand it there are no formal
terms, just a constant turnover of pupils.
The budget for the project is 10,000 to 15,000 for the first year. There
will be a requirement for cabling which is being quoted on severally. The
school would like to have a server stored in a secure location away form the
pupils. I would suggest a fairly basic Dell server, (approx. 2,500), the
details of which you can get from our office. There will also be costs for
the telephone line, I would suggest a simple ISDN2 line.
Could you put together a formal quote for
Server, including all software
Network cards
Installation of LAN
Configuration of all software
ISDN costs
ISP costs
Support for first year
I get the feeling form Dr Thomas that security is an issue, and especially
important is the ability control the spending on the phone so could you have
a think about that.
If you want any help with the quote then try the office first (Jasper is
your best bet). We also have a regular subcontractor, Daniel, who does our
IT support who you might like to get in touch with (again Jasper can give
you the details). If you have a questions about any aspect of telecoms then
please phone my brother Andrew (0171 288 6055) who helps us on all these
matters.
The proposal will go in from OCS, so you will have to liase with Dr. Thomas.
I propose that if we get the go ahead we work on the basis of a
Sparks/Paneris (or vehicle of your choice) joint venture. In this instance
we haven\'t got the time to do the work so all the money would be yours less
a small finders fee. However if there were any follow up work at a later
date we would like the opportunity to decide if we wanted to be more
involved. To move things forward could you give Dr Thomas a ring and let him
know how things stand (tel 01865 511433).
If you want to speak to me I will leave contact details with the office, but
your best bet is to email me.
All the best.
David Stone, Partner
Sparks Computer Solutions
','f','',51,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9316,'Tue Sep 21 10:52:03 1999','Re: Sparks Spec',3,9315,'
Who wants to play?
I am happy to talk to OCS, and do some paperwork.
Would be happy to make first stab at hardware/Software
configuration, but want input on /system/setup/.
I am also concerned about the amount of aftersales
support we may have to do....
','f','',51,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9317,'Tue Sep 21 10:52:03 1999','Re: Sparks Spec',1,9316,'
Tim,
I don\'t think there is any added value to 3 of us writing a spec for this project. Basically, one of us should produce a spec which we will all comment on. I am prepared to do this, but feel you are the best person for the job as you have the customer contact and are based in oxford.
To give you an idea of where I would start:
1) Don\'t cut corners for costs, things will rebound later and we will have to pick up the pieces. (Buy Dell PCs, use a decent ISP, buy a router (proxies are always dodgey).
2) 1000\'s of solutions such as this are rolled out daily using 100% MS products. This project is perfectr for a MS solution.
3) A rough guide for 1st year maintenance should be 50% of project cost. Define maintenance carefully - do you want to be on call 24hours, or just business hours.
Hope this helps
TimJ
','f','',51,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9318,'Tue Sep 21 10:52:03 1999','Re: Sparks Spec',2,9317,'
>I don\'t think there is any added value to 3 of us writing a spec for this project. Basically, one of us should produce
>a spec which we will all comment on. I am prepared to do this, but feel you are the best person for the job as you
>have the customer contact and are based in oxford.
>
>To give you an idea of where I would start:
>
>1) Don\'t cut corners for costs, things will rebound later and we will have to pick up the pieces. (Buy Dell PCs, use
> a decent ISP, buy a router (proxies are always dodgey).
Agree, except for the proxy bit. Why are proxies dodgy?
>2) 1000\'s of solutions such as this are rolled out daily using 100% MS products. This project is perfectr for a MS
> solution.
So what would be your suggestion? I\'m guessing at:
1) Use NT as a router between the LAN and the ISDN adaptor (This needs a class C subnet)
2) Use MSMail as the mail server? Does this keep user\'s mail on the server?
Not that since there are 6 "public access" workstations, we cannot use POP3 (or SMTP) and
so I was thinking of IMAP. How would a MS solution work here?
>3) A rough guide for 1st year maintenance should be 50% of project cost. Define maintenance carefully - do you
> want to be on call 24hours, or just business hours.
Seems a little high - especially if you include hardware/software costs as part of the project costs.
I would have suggested 6-10 days in total over a year...? (can buy more if needed).
>Hope this helps
>
>TimJ
Let me know what you think,
Myles
','f','',51,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9319,'Tue Sep 21 10:52:03 1999','Re: Sparks Spec',1,9318,'
>Agree, except for the proxy bit. Why are proxies dodgy?
I don\'t really know, just from your experience with https etc.
>
>So what would be your suggestion? I\'m guessing at:
>
>1) Use NT as a router between the LAN and the ISDN adaptor (This needs a class C subnet)
>2) Use MSMail as the mail server? Does this keep user\'s mail on the server?
I would go with MS Exchange. 95 on the clients, running outlook express and IE.
>
>Not that since there are 6 "public access" workstations, we cannot use POP3 (or SMTP) and
>so I was thinking of IMAP. How would a MS solution work here?
>
Why cant we use POP3 or SMTP?
>
>Seems a little high - especially if you include hardware/software costs as part of the project costs.
>I would have suggested 6-10 days in total over a year...? (can buy more if needed).
>
sure, I was just raising the point the maintenance needs to be considered seriously.
Ideally they would pay-as-you-go maintenance, then there is no risk to us.
Later
TimJ
','f','',51,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
52,'OCS','OCS Interface',852,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/OCS/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/OCS/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9320,'Wed Sep 16 14:55:44 1998','OCS node on paneris',3,0,'
Tom,
Noone from OCS seems to be using/interested in
the Paneris site and I have forgotten the password.
I did say I would arrange to come and see the software at your offices,
but, unless I hear from you to the contrary, I think we had better assume that
there is no mutual interest to exploit.
I have removed the password so that you can access the site, as I expect you have forgotten it too,
and shall move the node to archive in one month,
if there are no further developments.
yours
Tim Pizey
PS please inform Dr Thomas.
','f','',52,0,0);
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53,'DFR','DFR Project',853,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/DFR/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/DFR/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9321,'Mon Nov 9 15:57:17 1998','Interactive door design - IMPORTANT',3,0,'
Boys,
Frank has come up with an interesting project, which has
a realistic budget.
The node is http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/DFR/
and has username and password set to Bob1e.
The project is for a door manufacturer,
who makes bespoke doors for architects.
These doors can vary along defined parameters:
a) Panel layout (5 choices)
b) Panel veneer (large number of choices)
c) Beading type (8? choices)
d) Inlay pattern (completely free form !!!!)
As you can see the number of possible doors rapidly
becomes unmanageable.
So Frank wants a program to enable people to design a door
online and for us to bear in mind that the application should
also be saleable to a wallpaper manufacturer.
This message is primarily to ensure that I have recorded
my telephone conversation but I am desparate for implementation
suggestions.
yours
TimP
','f','',53,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9322,'Mon Nov 9 16:30:43 1998','Re: Interactive door design - IMPORTANT',1,9321,'
Jen\'s comment on the project:
"interesting, but not in itself"
>a) Panel layout (5 choices)
>b) Panel veneer (large number of choices)
>c) Beading type (8? choices)
nice and simple
>d) Inlay pattern (completely free form !!!!)
we need to decide weather we are doing this.
>
>As you can see the number of possible doors rapidly
>becomes unmanageable.
>So Frank wants a program to enable people to design a door
>online and for us to bear in mind that the application should
>also be saleable to a wallpaper manufacturer.
um, it may be applicable. but withoug another requirements doc, we really should not commit to this.
>This message is primarily to ensure that I have recorded
>my telephone conversation but I am desparate for implementation
>suggestions.
flash it up, I have seen similar done.
','f','',53,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9323,'Mon Nov 9 16:43:50 1998','Re: Interactive door design - IMPORTANT',2,9321,'
>Boys,
>Frank has come up with an interesting project, which has
>a realistic budget.
>The node is http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/DFR/
>and has username and password set to Bob1e.
That\'s, I say, that\'s a one, boy.
>The project is for a door manufacturer,
>who makes bespoke doors for architects.
>These doors can vary along defined parameters:
>a) Panel layout (5 choices)
>b) Panel veneer (large number of choices)
>c) Beading type (8? choices)
Easy.
>d) Inlay pattern (completely free form !!!!)
Challenging. We must let people upload images in
some format (what) with some conditions on scale
or size, or we let people design it on-line (non-
trivial :-)
>As you can see the number of possible doors rapidly
>becomes unmanageable.
>So Frank wants a program to enable people to design a door
>online and for us to bear in mind that the application should
>also be saleable to a wallpaper manufacturer.
Wallpaper manufacture, it would seem to me, it all about
point 4, designing the design of the wallpaper, no?
>This message is primarily to ensure that I have recorded
>my telephone conversation but I am desparate for implementation
>suggestions.
>
>yours
>TimP
Choices are:
1) Flash - talk to Dan? Can we save the designs on the server
(my ignorance of Flash showing up!). This could well be the best
bet especially since it\'s not really for the casual surfer.
2) Java - well do-able in Java, which would be cross platform,
but might be fiddly to implement
3) DHTML (with some CGI) - a possibility, but could be a real
headache and it restricts the number of people who could use
the system.
4) CGI - looses the \'nice\' interactivity of the other solutions -
you would have to load a new page each step.
Myles
','f','',53,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9324,'Tue Nov 10 12:49:02 1998','Re: Interactive door design - IMPORTANT',4,9321,'
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> This message is primarily to ensure that I have recorded
> my telephone conversation but I am desparate for implementation
> suggestions.
Two broad classes of solution:
1) client-side
Java would do it---possibly quite efficiently even in terms of
download. I don\'t know enough about Shockwave but I imagine it would
do it too.
2) server-side, making up images on demand through CGI
The stock solution for this is gd:
http://www.boutell.com/gd
From the readme:
gd is a graphics library. It allows your code to quickly
draw images complete with lines, arcs, text, multiple
colors, cut and paste from other images, and flood fills, and
write out the result as a .GIF file. This is particularly
useful in World Wide Web applications, where .GIF is the
format used for inline images.
gd does not provide for every possible desirable graphics
operation. It is not necessary or desirable for gd to become
a kitchen-sink graphics package, but version 1.3 incorporates
most of the commonly requested features for an 8-bit 2D package.
Support for scalable fonts, and truecolor images, JPEG and PNG
is planned for version 2.0. Version 1.3 was released to correct
longstanding bugs and provide an LZW-free GIF compression routine.
There is a Perl module for driving it (which in fact probably includes
the whole library).
Or again, Java would do it on the server side too.
If you need something more sophisticated then it is in principle
possible to run GIMP, the immensely cool free photoshop-a-like which
supports all the nifty effects you could conceivably want through a
powerful scripting language. NB this would be a Unix-only solution.
','f','',53,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9325,'Wed Nov 11 12:57:41 1998','Flash application',3,0,'
Daniel,
Please loook at the messages at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/DFR/
(User: Bob1e, Password: Bob1e) (Thats a one).
Frank, of Airflow Design, a Paneris Partner, has a prospect
which involves interactive design of doors for architects and designers.
The consensus so far seems to be that this would best be tackled as a Flash
application.
Frank has worries that the target audience will not have
the Flash plug-in available and there are competing solutions
such as a Java App or a server side solution, but, as I say,
Flash seems to be the front runner.
So please have a look and get back to us
(using the board, copy info@airflow.net, paneris@i-way.co.uk)
yours
timP
','f','',53,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9326,'Thu Nov 12 11:55:23 1998','Re: Flash application',1,9325,'
>Frank has worries that the target audience will not have
>the Flash plug-in available and there are competing solutions
>such as a Java App or a server side solution, but, as I say,
>Flash seems to be the front runner.
Flash is very cleaver about finding some streaming technology to use on the client.
this is how it works (i think):
It will use the flash player if installed.
Then it will use RealAudio if that is installed.
Then it will send down a java applet to play it.
so, having the flash player installed is not 100% necessary.
','f','',53,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9327,'Fri Nov 13 10:10:19 1998','Re: Re: Flash application',102,9326,'
We\'ve just gone a stage further with this chaps (chapess), and it is now a serious request for a design and costing.
Having had a pre-focus meeting with the client we reckon that Flash _will_ be acceptable as the majority of users will be your architect, specifier types who will not have a problem downloading a plug-in for a really useable tool.
Just to pad out TimP\'s original specs, the system wants to work like this:
Let\'s call the program Designit and the user Harry.
Harry can use Designit as often as he likes once registered at the front end - must be a valid e-mail address etc. Maybe the system will generate a login & pwd and send them at once to the e-mail address Harry specified.
Harry is presented with a page, the left third is a blank panel, the right 2 thirds contains (scrolling or not, doesn\'t matter) 8 predefined door types (flat panel, 2-panel, three panel etc). Harry is asked to click on a template. When he clicks on one it appears in the left-hand frame.
As the lh refreshes, the rh autorefreshes to display a predefined range of veneer samples and Harry is asked to choose a veneer for the rails (the upright l & r bits of a door). He selects and the lh refreshes dynamically filling in the bits.
Next Harry selects a veneer for the styles (the horizontal bits top, bottom and, if appropriate, middle), and again the lh refreshes displaying his selection.
Next Harry selects a veneer for the door panels (if any), and again the lh refreshes displaying his selection.
Next Designit asks Harry if he wants a moulding or an inlay (like marquetry) between the panels and the outside bits. Whichever he selects, he is presented with a range of mouldings/inlays and he will select as usual.
That\'s the design part out of the way.
Now the door in the lh frame is going to be a bit low-res, so we want Harry to be able to zoom into it and get a flavour of the real veneer patterns, maybe change the cursor to a square or a magnifying glass, whatever.
Next Harry wants a hard copy of the door. So can we send the door Harry\'s designed to a printer from the applet (showing all the requisite Designit copyrights and info?
Finally, we want Harry to be able to see what his door will look like in a corridor environment. We give him a choice of three colour schemes (white, beige, magnolia) and hey-presto, the door is displayed as a sinlg door and as a set of double doors in a perspective view, a bit like at http://the-veneer.com/designit.
Finally, Harry is asked if he wants a quote based upon his own design, so his choices will already be filled in on the form (although he can ammend them if required) and all he has to do is enter sizes and quantity required.
Three questions:
Can we do this?
How do we do this?
Can we have an estimate?
I wait with bated breath.
','f','',53,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9328,'Fri Nov 13 10:49:43 1998','Re: Re: Re: Flash application',102,9327,'
Sorry, wrong URL, it should be http://www.the-veneer.com/designit
','f','',53,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9329,'Mon Nov 23 18:15:27 1998','Flash',6,0,'
Hello,
I have just seen the designs for the doors, it looks very possible, I think a branch approach best - i-e. choose one of three door styles, then using a menu system the textures can be clicked on which will automatically update the look of the door with maybe a cute sound or something.
All this is totally ideal for Flash, and the graphics will be smooth and fast-loading, unlike a JavaScript solution.
There is also a Flash auto-detection procedure that can be used for Nescape 2+ and IE 3 and 4, any other browsers will automatically go to a shocked/un-shocked page, but the rest will only ask the user to download Flash if they haven\'t got it. And it IS only 108K now, just nothing.
So . . . Flash it is I think.
Daniel Hart
PS note my new email address.
','f','',53,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9330,'Mon Nov 23 18:29:40 1998','Re: Flash',102,9329,'
>Hello,
>I have just seen the designs for the doors,
[snip]
>So . . . Flash it is I think.
Thanks for your input, Daniel. Could you or anybody else give me an idea as to cost? I\'m assuming that the cost is NOT relative to the number of variables (door types, veneer types etc).
Cheers for now
Frank
','f','',53,0,0);
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54,'GlobalPwr','GlobalPwr Project',854,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/GlobalPwr/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/GlobalPwr/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9331,'Tue May 25 17:37:55 1999','Global Power Spec',3,0,'
Boys,
Frank would like us to quote against the Requirement
at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/GlobalPwr/requirements.shtml
Please read and comment on the message board.
yours
timP
','f','',54,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9332,'Tue May 25 18:27:01 1999','Re: Global Power Spec',2,9331,'
>Boys,
>Frank would like us to quote against the Requirement
>at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/GlobalPwr/requirements.shtml
>Please read and comment on the message board.
>yours
>timP
I had a look. The building site was not working, so couldn\'t
find anything out about the site. I visited the shop@ssistant
site quickly and didn\'t find out how it works. That\'s the
main unknown (all the rest is not difficult). I\'d say the main
component which could give us difficulty, because of this, is
the "Previous Orders" bit - we need to know how we can interact
with the javascript to get the data out.
Myles
','f','',54,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9333,'Wed May 26 8:11:28 1999','Re: Re: Global Power Spec',1,9332,'
>I had a look. The building site was not working, so couldn\'t
>find anything out about the site. I visited the shop@ssistant
>site quickly and didn\'t find out how it works. That\'s the
>main unknown (all the rest is not difficult). I\'d say the main
>component which could give us difficulty, because of this, is
>the "Previous Orders" bit - we need to know how we can interact
>with the javascript to get the data out.
I would simply dump shop@assist - It isn\'t quite up to running a fully functional ecommerce site. Checkout the DB button - Coming Soon Shop@ssistant DB. essentially it is just a shopping trolley that uses the cookie (we did this for bloomsbury 2.5 years ago).
Otherwise this project looks perfect for us, 100 hours shoud be fine (including replacing shop@assist) - i am due to write a shopping trolley anyday, which will be reuseable.
timj
','f','',54,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9334,'Wed May 26 12:27:28 1999','Re: Re: Re: Global Power Spec',102,9333,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> >I had a look. The building site was not working, so couldn\'t
> >find anything out about the site. I visited the shop@ssistant
> >site quickly and didn\'t find out how it works.
Go to www.globalpower.co.uk
Click where indicated in my attached image
Click on Power Tools
Go to Cordless and select Angle Drills
Click [Buy] on any of the products
That\'s Global power and that\'s Shop@ssistant!
Frank Wognum
','f','',54,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9335,'Wed May 26 14:09:44 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Global Power Spec',2,9334,'
>> >I had a look. The building site was not working, so couldn\'t
>> >find anything out about the site. I visited the shop@ssistant
>> >site quickly and didn\'t find out how it works.
>Go to www.globalpower.co.uk
>Click where indicated in my attached image
I notice that we get 2 sets of "tooltips" - one from the
javascript and one from the alt tag for the images (NS 4.5)
>Click on Power Tools
>Go to Cordless and select Angle Drills
>Click [Buy] on any of the products
>That\'s Global power and that\'s Shop@ssistant!
>
>Frank Wognum
OK, I\'ve had a look now. I don\'t think the 2 levels we
need to generate should be a problem. I think, however, that
it would be more trouble than it\'s worth trying to hack
shopassistant to get the Customer Order History bit - it
looks a nightmare to me. The chances of breaking things in
the process is quite high.
I reckon we should either drop shopassistant or not quote for
the Customer order bit. If we have to re-write some of the
shopassistant stuff, would it not push the price up a
bit?
Myles
','f','',54,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9336,'Wed May 26 14:36:41 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Global Power Spec',1,9334,'
>Go to www.globalpower.co.uk
>Click where indicated in my attached image
fun without the attached image, but i found it in the end and
>Click on Power Tools
>Go to Cordless and select Angle Drills
>Click [Buy] on any of the products
it was well worth the effort.
this is a really great looking site!
when i clicked buy (IE4), i got a javascript error.
timj
','f','',54,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9337,'Thu Jun 3 10:36:20 1999','Global Power start date',102,0,'
Hi chaps,
You\'ve had a chance to look at the Global Power requirement spec.
You\'ve said it can be done in 100 hours. That\'s great news. The
client wants to ahead with it as soon as possible. The client has
to make certain decisions as to business sponsorship and finance
in order be live for the Christmas rush. In order to do this he
has to be able to demonstrate a fully functional (although not
necessarily live) working demo by the 1st week in September.
However, Tim won\'t be able to make a start on it until July 15th
at the earliest because of current commitments (including a
massive post-Glastonbury headache!). This means that end August
for a delivery is less than certain.
I\'d like to know if anybody else can take the reins of the project
and make a start on it before then. The client is ready to sign
off a functional spec as soon as we can provide it and has a
deposit cheque waiting.
Please let me know if you can achieve the above amongst yourselves
by the end of August. If so, let me know and let me have your
requirements to write a functional spec. I hope you\'ll be able
to help me here. Many thanks.
PS, I\'m off to Ireland on Saturday morning but because of this
project I\'ll be taking the laptop with me and will be checking
my e-mail frequently to keep in touch with the project.
Frank
','f','',54,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9338,'Mon Jun 7 12:00:13 1999','Re: Global Power start date',2,9337,'
>Hi chaps,
[snip]
>Please let me know if you can achieve the above amongst yourselves
>by the end of August. If so, let me know and let me have your
>requirements to write a functional spec. I hope you\'ll be able
>to help me here. Many thanks.
>Frank
Frank,
I\'ve had a look at this but need to talk to you about it.
Speak to you in a couple of weeks,
Myles
','f','',54,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
55,'PFE','PFE Project',855,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/PFE/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/PFE/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9339,'Fri Mar 26 2:50:36 1999','PFE project docs',3,0,'
Hi,
Has anyone written either a functional spec or an architecture document
in accordance with the Documentation Procedures yet?
I am doing a set for PFE, and have made a start on Quality Plan and
and Requirements Spec.
Frank, you may think the Quality plan is a bit chatty.
It started life as a description of how we should
write documents, and I only intend to delete bits when I
have made the decisions mentioned.
I would like a bit more of an idea of the business need
for the system or any other comments.
yours
TimP
Ps this is very much work in progress, but I must turn in now.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9340,'Fri Mar 26 12:02:13 1999','Re: PFE project docs',2,9339,'
>Hi,
>Has anyone written either a functional spec or an architecture document
>in accordance with the Documentation Procedures yet?
I have these for a couple of projects. Unfortunately, WebTrans is
effectively closed (people would have to sign a confidentiallity
agreement to see them - sigh), but RacketClub at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/tsl/RacketClub/ has quite a full
set of docs. Let me know if you have forgotten the username/password.
Myles
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9341,'Fri Mar 26 13:00:34 1999','Re: PFE project docs',102,9339,'
>I would like a bit more of an idea of the business need
>for the system or any other comments.
Let\'s call the project \'PFETrack\' - a web-based order and shipment tracking system.
An example of the Operation of PFETrack (as I understand it):
There will be three classes of users of PFETrack
1. "The Client", our client, PFE Express, a Freight Forwarding company.
2. "The Agent", one of 10* shipping agents based primarily in the Far East
3. "The Customer" one of 30* importers of goods from the Far East into Europe/USA
*=approx. at this time
Stage 1 - Authorisation
=======================
The Client has a Client Administration screen allowing him to add/amend/remove Agent/Customer access to PFETrack. Customers and Agents apply to PFE to be added to the system. They are then given their authorisation Login and Password.
Stage 2 - Order Placement
=========================
The Customer is a wholesaler or importer in, say, Boston. He has a factory in Taipei that produces T-shirts. He normally faxes or telephones his shipping request to PFE, but using PFETrack he accesses the website and on the appropriate page selects an option:
[.]Add Order
[.]Amend Order
[.]Track Order
[.]Reports
He selects Add Order. He enters the factory in Taipei where the goods are to be collected from, the number of cartons and the delivery ready date. He then selects an agent (which will be known to him) from a drop-down. Finally he enters the delivery instructions - Shipping Terms. On \'submit\' his order is e-mailed to the Agent and the Client (the latter for information).
or
He selects Amend Order. He can change the details of a previously Added Order (e.g. the factory inform him the goods will not be ready for shipment on time), until the Actual Departure time, at which point we presume the boat has left! He can also cancel an order here.
Stage 3 - Order Receipt
=======================
The Agent receives the Customer order by e-mail and sorts out the paperwork. He then accesses the system. His options are the same:
[.]Add Order (not greyed out as he CAN add an order)
[.]Amend Order
[.]Track Order
[.]Reports
On selecting Amend Order, the consignment details that the Customer put in are uneditable. The Agent enters details of the vessel, the sailing date and arranges to have the shipment picked up from the factory and taken to the port on the due day (if these were the Shipping Terms). He enters the ETD and ETA and hits \'submit\'. On submit, the details of the amended order are e-mailed to the Client (info only), the Customer (to show the order has received attention) and the Agent (confirm what he has done).
Stage 4 - Order Tracking
========================
Any change in the status of the Order is confirmed to the Customer, the Agent and the Client. The Customer will want to check frequently, using Track order, that his shipment is on its way, and especially when the shipment arrives in Boston and is awaiting customs clearance.
Stage 5 - Reports
=================
Reports can be generated to:
show the Client how many consignments done between specified dates for any/all customers
show an Agent how many consignments done between specified dates for PFE.
show the Customer how many consignments PFE/an Agent has/have done for him
show PFE/Agent/Customer how many consignments are in transit
PFE can access all data
Agent can access data relating to him only
Customer can access data relating to him only
Let me know if any of this is unclear. I am trying to arrange a meeting with the Client for next week.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9342,'Fri Mar 26 13:00:45 1999','Re: Re: PFE project docs',4,9340,'
>I have these for a couple of projects.
Yes, I thought the RacketClub docs were a nice demonstration
of effective cherry-picking from the full range of things
suggested in the quality procedures. I suppose when the
procedures have settled down a bit, we should have explicit
entries saying "section blah --- we didn\'t do this cos it\'s
irrelevant/too onerous for this project/we were bored".
I think the functional spec and architecture doc basically
originate with me, so I\'d be happy to discuss the ideas
behind them with TimP and Myles (who has actually guinea
pigged the thing!).
The guiding principle behind the functional spec was to
try and think how the users will actually use the services
provided, imagining what you would have to do to achieve
the kind of things we expect people to be using the system
for.
>Let me know if you have forgotten the username/password.
Ach, just go ftp, that\'s what I do :). Netscape doesn\'t
seem to care ...
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9343,'Fri Mar 26 13:00:48 1999','Re: PFE project docs',102,9339,'
>I would like a bit more of an idea of the business need
>for the system or any other comments.
Let\'s call the project \'PFETrack\' - a web-based order and shipment tracking system.
An example of the Operation of PFETrack (as I understand it):
There will be three classes of users of PFETrack
1. "The Client", our client, PFE Express, a Freight Forwarding company.
2. "The Agent", one of 10* shipping agents based primarily in the Far East
3. "The Customer" one of 30* importers of goods from the Far East into Europe/USA
*=approx. at this time
Stage 1 - Authorisation
=======================
The Client has a Client Administration screen allowing him to add/amend/remove Agent/Customer access to PFETrack. Customers and Agents apply to PFE to be added to the system. They are then given their authorisation Login and Password.
Stage 2 - Order Placement
=========================
The Customer is a wholesaler or importer in, say, Boston. He has a factory in Taipei that produces T-shirts. He normally faxes or telephones his shipping request to PFE, but using PFETrack he accesses the website and on the appropriate page selects an option:
[.]Add Order
[.]Amend Order
[.]Track Order
[.]Reports
He selects Add Order. He enters the factory in Taipei where the goods are to be collected from, the number of cartons and the delivery ready date. He then selects an agent (which will be known to him) from a drop-down. Finally he enters the delivery instructions - Shipping Terms. On \'submit\' his order is e-mailed to the Agent and the Client (the latter for information).
or
He selects Amend Order. He can change the details of a previously Added Order (e.g. the factory inform him the goods will not be ready for shipment on time), until the Actual Departure time, at which point we presume the boat has left! He can also cancel an order here.
Stage 3 - Order Receipt
=======================
The Agent receives the Customer order by e-mail and sorts out the paperwork. He then accesses the system. His options are the same:
[.]Add Order (not greyed out as he CAN add an order)
[.]Amend Order
[.]Track Order
[.]Reports
On selecting Amend Order, the consignment details that the Customer put in are uneditable. The Agent enters details of the vessel, the sailing date and arranges to have the shipment picked up from the factory and taken to the port on the due day (if these were the Shipping Terms). He enters the ETD and ETA and hits \'submit\'. On submit, the details of the amended order are e-mailed to the Client (info only), the Customer (to show the order has received attention) and the Agent (confirm what he has done).
Stage 4 - Order Tracking
========================
Any change in the status of the Order is confirmed to the Customer, the Agent and the Client. The Customer will want to check frequently, using Track order, that his shipment is on its way, and especially when the shipment arrives in Boston and is awaiting customs clearance.
Stage 5 - Reports
=================
Reports can be generated to:
show the Client how many consignments done between specified dates for any/all customers
show an Agent how many consignments done between specified dates for PFE.
show the Customer how many consignments PFE/an Agent has/have done for him
show PFE/Agent/Customer how many consignments are in transit
PFE can access all data
Agent can access data relating to him only
Customer can access data relating to him only
Let me know if any of this is unclear. I am trying to arrange a meeting with the Client for next week.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9344,'Fri Mar 26 15:08:13 1999','Meeting with Client Wednesday 31st March',3,0,'
Frank is meeting the customer on Wednesday.
All agenda items to board before Wednesday morning.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9345,'Fri Apr 2 12:07:34 1999','Re: Meeting with Client Wednesday 31st March',3,9344,'
>Frank is meeting the customer on Wednesday.
>All agenda items to board before Wednesday morning.
The resultant Functional spec does not have any cost implications.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9346,'Tue Apr 6 15:17:20 1999','Bits & Bobs',102,0,'
Hi chaps,
1. The invoice for the deposit has been submitted and I
expect a reply shortly. When I receive the cheque I will
send a copy of the invoice with a pro-rata cheque to TimP
unless otherwise advised.
2. I understand we will have full CGI access on the server
and as such I wish to use my normal TimP-tweaked generic
search and mailform scripts. If this is within my
capabilities I shall do it, otherwise TimP has agreed to
install them.
3. I have an index page designed with a link to PFETrack set
to pfetrack.html. This will be the page that explains to the
casual and/or uninformed visitor what PFETrack does. At some
stage I would like a test record set up with a password and
login so that unauthorised users can test the system\'s
functionality.
4. Will the login & password for PFETrack be a pop-up box
(like htaccess) or can it be incorporated into the HTML of
the PFETrack page?
Cheers. That\'s all for now. I\'ll let you get back to work.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9347,'Tue Apr 6 15:31:03 1999','www.pfeweb.com',3,0,'
The site is in existance now.
The user pfeweb has now been set up.
Will communicate pwd by phone.
yours
timp
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9348,'Wed Apr 7 9:05:45 1999','Re: www.pfeweb.com',102,9347,'
>The site is in existance now.
>The user pfeweb has now been set up.
>Will communicate pwd by phone.
I\'ve uploaded a test home page to the pfeweb server using
the FTP details you gave me, but the pages don\'t appear on
the web and I can\'t see where the cgi-bin directory is.
I know the answer\'s probably obvious, but please tell me
what\'s going on so that I can show the customer the proposed
design by e-mailing him the URL (no point at the moment since
there\'s nothing there but a test script).
Many thanks.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9349,'Wed Apr 7 11:12:20 1999','Re: Re: www.pfeweb.com',3,9348,'
>>The site is in existance now.
>>The user pfeweb has now been set up.
>>Will communicate pwd by phone.
>I\'ve uploaded a test home page to the pfeweb server using
>the FTP details you gave me, but the pages don\'t appear on
>the web and I can\'t see where the cgi-bin directory is.
I think the problem was with ownership/permissions;
so I suspect that you couldn\'t upload.
I have just changed the permissions to 777,
but pfeweb is still owned by hoop, not itself.
This means that you can upload, but it looks as though
the file ownership is still wrong.
Myles, can you change this please.
yours
TimP
PS I think that there is a similar ownership/permission problem with
Sugar (owned by Root).
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9350,'Wed Apr 7 13:52:46 1999','Re: Re: Re: www.pfeweb.com',3,9349,'
>I have just changed the permissions to 777,
>but pfeweb is still owned by hoop, not itself.
>This means that you can upload, but it looks as though
>the file ownership is still wrong.
>Myles, can you change this please.
Someone seems to have fixed this at their end.
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9351,'Wed Apr 7 15:04:15 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: www.pfeweb.com',102,9350,'
>Someone seems to have fixed this at their end.
>TimP
Call me a complete drongo if you like, but when I access
the server using WS-FTP, I can see NO cgi-bin, I can see
MY \'index.html\', yet when I access the site using my
browser, it still returns that annoying little \'test\' page.
I appear to be uploading to the wrong server? What\'s going
on?
TWIMC - Help please, before this starts to annoy me.
Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9352,'Wed Apr 7 15:55:00 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: www.pfeweb.com',3,9351,'
Frank,
>Call me a complete drongo if you like, but when I access
>the server using WS-FTP, I can see NO cgi-bin, I can see
>MY \'index.html\', yet when I access the site using my
>browser, it still returns that annoying little \'test\' page.
>I appear to be uploading to the wrong server? What\'s going
>on?
When you FTP in it should take you to
/usr/httpd/pfeweb
If it doesn\'t take you there (You are using WS-FTP?)
then put that in the location and set as future default (using Options)
Hope this helps,
Otherwise give me a ring.
yours
TimP
PS You think you have got problems, I have made zero progress in the last two days :(
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9353,'Wed Apr 7 16:51:12 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: www.pfeweb.com',102,9352,'
>When you FTP in it should take you to
>/usr/httpd/pfeweb
It doesn\'t
>If it doesn\'t take you there (You are using WS-FTP?)
Yes
>then put that in the location and set as future default
(using Options)
It refuses. It always defaults to /home/pfeweb, which is
where I uploaded the files to originally.
>Hope this helps,
Yes, thanks
>PS You think you have got problems, I have made zero
>progress in the last two days :(
\'Life\', it\'s a four-letter word.
frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9354,'Fri Apr 9 14:47:28 1999','Invoice for commitment',3,0,'
Frank,
Please see http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/invoice.pl?show-/people/timp/invoices/88.html
Thankyou for your business,
timp
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9355,'Mon Apr 12 12:57:33 1999','Re: Invoice for commitment',102,9354,'
>Frank,
>Please see http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/invoice.pl?show-/people/timp/invoices/88.html
>Thankyou for your business,
I first went to AirFlow/PFE/Invoices and couldn\'t find the
invoice, althought I have it now from the message board.
How come it doesn\'t show up in \'Invoices\'?
Cheers for now.
Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9356,'Tue Apr 13 12:56:58 1999','Script',102,0,'
Hi Tim (inter alia),
Please, when you have a moment, could you have a look at
insure.cgi (standard mailform script). It falls down. The
template document is called insurance.txt and the script
is called from www.pfeweb.com/insapp.html
Search script works fine. 50% success rate! I must be
getting better!
Many thanks.
Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9357,'Tue Apr 13 16:01:09 1999','Re: Script',3,9356,'
Frank,
>Please, when you have a moment, could you have a look at
>insure.cgi (standard mailform script). It falls down. The
>template document is called insurance.txt and the script
>is called from www.pfeweb.com/insapp.html
>Search script works fine. 50% success rate! I must be
>getting better!
Done, it was easy, to the extent that you might want to
set yourself up with perl so you can check it yourself.
The problem was that you need to have email set to
airflow\@airflow.net rather than airflow@airflow.net
If you were to install perl5 locally then
perl insure.cgi
would give you the error message.
yours
timp
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9358,'Tue Apr 20 3:11:30 1999','Site skeleton',3,0,'
Frank,
We are still a hairs breadth from the demo.
We are having a lot of silly problems uploading the data,
without which the links in the skeleton can\'t be made
meaningful.
Myles has created a high level skeleton which is under
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/PFE/PFETrack/login.html
we are trying to get the database behind it hooked up.
This process requires the following steps:
Extract dbstructure from Access
Extract data from access
create db in postgres
load datadefinition into Access
load data (csv files) into postgres
we are at the last step of the above, so should
be able to demo tomorrow, but I am very aware that
this is late.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9359,'Tue Apr 20 10:45:31 1999','Re: Site skeleton',102,9358,'
>Frank,
>We are still a hairs breadth from the demo.
Please contact me immediately there is working demo
available for review. Is it safe for me to make an
appointment with the client with the prurpose of showing
him something concrete tomorrow morning?
Thanks
Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9360,'Tue Apr 20 11:11:51 1999','Re: Re: Site skeleton',3,9359,'
>Please contact me immediately there is working demo
>available for review.
Will do.
>Is it safe for me to make an
>appointment with the client with the prurpose of showing
>him something concrete tomorrow morning?
I wouldn\'t describe it as safe.
We have a chance (60%?) of getting to that point.
yours
Tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9361,'Tue Apr 20 19:54:35 1999','Status',3,0,'
Tim,
I am going to Ruth\'s, as she has a copy of Access,
where I hope to do some \'cold towel\' design on
the PFETrack data structure.
From this we should be able to define the data migration from
Acan db structure to the new db structure.
So the pressure is off for the upload script for the moment.
Do you know how to migrate one structure to another?
(I need to read page 2 of the tutorial :)
Project Tasks Done
Mock up skeleton
Mock up login
ACAN DB structure defined
ACAN DD definition defaulted
Project Tasks to do
Upload ACAN data
Define ACAN DD definition
Define PFETrack datastructure
Define ACAN to PFETrack mapping
Load PFETrack
Write skeleton templates
Write skeleton handlers
Review with client
Implement Changes Requested
Write report template/handlers
Sign Off
Tim, Myles,
Does this seem reasonable?
Have I missed anything?
Which bits can you help with? by when?
We should have had a mock-up out today,
and should finish by 05/05/99,
so the pressure is on.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
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9362,'Thu Apr 22 3:17:38 1999','Status',3,0,'
Frank,
We have made big strides today.
The new data design is done, we have started a list of
questions for the customer.
The script for stripping the datadesign out of access
does 80% of the work, so little manual intervention
required if the customer wants design changes.
Myles has a database which he can start to wire up
to the skeleton.
I hope to show you something tomorrow.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9363,'Thu Apr 22 3:22:13 1999','Technical status',3,0,'
Tim,
The current data design, which is considerably better done
than the copy you have, is in CVS.
Chippy has a db on wah and there is one on ganesh.
Chippy reckons to make big strides tommorrow.
Can you talk to each other (here) about the
authorisation and user modeling requirements,
as I want to get to understand the issues/decisions.
I think we are on track.
Slightly less stressed.
Must get to sleep and go for it tomorrow.
love
tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9364,'Thu Apr 22 10:22:18 1999','Re: Technical status',1,9363,'
>Tim,
>The current data design, which is considerably better done
>than the copy you have, is in CVS.
got it
>Chippy has a db on wah and there is one on ganesh.
>Chippy reckons to make big strides tommorrow.
can\'t see anything different on ganesh
>Can you talk to each other (here) about the
>authorisation and user modeling requirements,
>as I want to get to understand the issues/decisions.
give me a bell (when you get up)
>I think we are on track.
>Slightly less stressed.
cool
timj
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9365,'Fri Apr 23 0:33:52 1999','Status 22/04/99',3,0,'
Frank,
Not as much progress as hoped, but on track.
You might like to look at http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/Administration?db=PFETrack
which is the \'raw\' data structure.
It now seems to work, all day I have been ironing out silly
little problems like boolean fields accepting null imput, so holding Myles up.
Myles is making progress however so hope to have more to show tommorrow.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
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9366,'Fri Apr 23 8:23:22 1999','Re: Status 22/04/99',102,9365,'
>Frank,
>You might like to look at http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/Administration?db=PFETrack
>which is the \'raw\' data structure.
OK, way too beta for me, but I can see you\'re making
progress. Keep up the good work.
For now, I have another problem. I have three mailform
scripts installed at pfeweb.com. They work great, except
that they don\'t appear to e-mail a copy of the form input
to the user even if he\'s put his correct e-mail address in.
The mailform.txt files are all set up to do this so I don\'t
know why it isn\'t working.
If you could take a look at this (just one of the scripts,
I can edit the others if you find the error) then I would
be very grateful.
Cheers for now
frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9367,'Mon Apr 26 16:28:06 1999','Progress',102,0,'
Hi Tim,
Please could you, at your convenience, let me have a
progress report for PFETrack?
Many thanks.
Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
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9368,'Mon Apr 26 20:15:15 1999','Re: Progress',3,9367,'
>Hi Tim,
>Please could you, at your convenience, let me have a
>progress report for PFETrack?
The skeleton is now functioning, but needs a lot more work.
The hold up has been getting the database design right,
as I have had to add two more lookups.
The skeleton now is wired up, and so if you go to
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/PFE/PFETrack/login.html
and enter \'pfe\' as the username then the java servlet PFELogin
is called.
I know this seems like slow progress at the moment, but I am hopeful
that the datadesign has settled down a bit now and we can
make more headway.
We have now done most, if not all, the system administration tasks,
such as setting up the server and change control systems, which are time
consuming and produce little visible evidence.
TimJ is working on the authorisation code, but at the moment
it is mocked up.
I am worried that I have a \'flu coming and hope to avoid it.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9369,'Tue Apr 27 17:20:51 1999','Demo Up',2,0,'
There is a demo of the PFETrack system up at
http://www.paneris.org/PFETrack/login.html
Please Login using the following username:passwords
pfe:1 or
importer:2 or
agent:3
This is intended to demonstrate the database structure
and the fact that we can view, add and amend all the
relevant data. Note that it is expected that the structure
of the site (number of screens, what they display, how
they are linked) will change in light of comments by the
customer.
Notes
-----
1) There are 2 database bugs which currently prevent some new records
from being added, and a problem with dates. These will be fixed soon.
2) The Login/security system is currently a dummy system. This is currently
being developed but is not ready for this demo
3) The Reports button does not do anything yet
4) The main orders screen needs re-designing but does show
all order/order line information (some of the shipping
details are not shown but can easily be added).
5) The screens for PFE work but need to be changed (for instance, you
when you click on "View Importers" you can then click on "Add
Organisation" and you currently have to remember to change the
organisation type manually).
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9370,'Thu Apr 29 2:19:46 1999','PFETrack Progress',3,0,'
Hi Frank,
Myles has ironed out the problem we had with dates, and we
believe that this has cured the updating problem.
The demo is now a bit more easy to understand.
The Purchase Order Form is now cleverer,
It now allows PFE to see all orders, Agents to see orders that they are
the agent for and importers the orders that they entered.
The next step is to get the design of the Orders Screen right,
and add to it Remarks, which are currently missing.
I will add them and make a stab at the screen layout,
but need your input.
Myles is going to add JavaScript validation to fields,
TimJ is working on the User Model.
Please let me know how you are getting on.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9371,'Thu Apr 29 10:53:00 1999','Re: PFETrack Progress',3,9370,'
Boys,
we only 2.25 hours left to finish :(
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9372,'Thu Apr 29 10:56:34 1999','Re: People Page',102,0,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
In message to us re: "RE: People Page" dated 26 Apr 99, Adam
said that ...
> FRANK,
Hi Adam,
Sorry for the delay in replying today. I had a \'two-hour meeting\'
which lasted from 10:30 to 4 o\'clock!!!
>
> I LIKE IT ! LOOKS REALLY GOOD. DAD ETC ARE BACK ON FRIDAY
> YOU CAN EITHER COME AND TAKE SOME PHOTS AGAIN OR I\'LL
> GET YOU SOME 35MM.
Great, I can come in whenever the troops are around.
>
> HOW LONG BEFORE PFETRAK IS UP AND RUNNING, ALL THE AGENTS
> THAT DAVE MET WHEN HE WAS AWAY WERE VERY KEEN.
In spite of the programmers\' encouraging murmurings to me, I
suspect they\'ve hit a bottleneck and are trying frantically to
iron it out. There is a version of PFETrack up there, and I can
give you the URL, but frankly it bears no relationship at the moment
to what a working beta will look like because it hasn\'t been
\'AirFlow\'ed yet and still needs many useability issues resolving. I\'m
sorry, but it isn\'t anything you can show the agents at this point.
> E-MAIL ADDRESSES.
Many thanks. They are now live and can be clicked on to test.
I apologise for the disappointing news regarding the lads\'
frustrations with PFETrack and promise to keep you posted as to their
progress as I hear it.
Cheers for now,
Frank Wognum
**********************************************************
> AirFlow Design: WWW Graphic & Design Studios <
> http://www.airflow.net <
> Tel: +44 (0)1245 352 908 Fax: +44 (0)1245 348 908 <
**********************************************************
"We only get one chance to make a First Impression...
...Let\'s Make It Count"
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9373,'Thu Apr 29 10:57:51 1999','Re: PFETrack Progress',102,9370,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> Hi Frank,
> The demo is now a bit more easy to understand.
> but need your input.
I\'m available today up to 1 o\'clock when I\'m out for the rest
of the afternoon and evening. I shall try to get a more thorough
look at the demo later. I had a quick look earlier on, and it\'s
looking much better. However, I logged in as importer/2 and was able
to change/amend the Administrator of the site. Surely this should NOT
be possible?
We need to set aside some time when we are both free and when we can
sift through all parts of the system and determine the wheres and
whyfores etc. I am stuffed today, and won\'t be back until late this
evening, but I may have some time free then. If you are up and about
at that time and want to listen to my ranting, then let me know. We
need to get this sorted.
Cheers for now.
Frank Wognum
**********************************************************
> AirFlow Design: WWW Graphic & Design Studios <
> http://www.airflow.net <
> Tel: +44 (0)1245 352 908 Fax: +44 (0)1245 348 908 <
**********************************************************
"We only get one chance to make a First Impression...
...Let\'s Make It Count"
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9374,'Thu Apr 29 11:33:52 1999','Implementation Plan',3,0,'
Boys,
I have gotten my head sufficiently around the project to have written an
Implementation Plan.
Please read and amend it (it is meant to be written by the Developers).
(Similarly with the Architecture Document).
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9375,'Thu Apr 29 15:09:00 1999','PFEWeb site comments',3,0,'
Frank,
Just looked at what you have done for the main site.
It looks to me as though the following would be good:
The Agents should lead to database queries.
Bangla.html should become PFEAgentViewTemplate.wm
Organisations should have a country field.
I am not sure, but think that quotations should work off the db.
The Schedule should be in the db.
These are all beyond the spec, but take the system up
to a higher level of completness.
Not sure how the search is meant to work, but
we will have to think of something.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
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9376,'Sat May 1 2:01:11 1999','Re: PFEWeb site comments',3,9375,'
In message to us re: "PFEWeb site comments [/partners/airflow/PFE/ by
TimP]" dated 29 Apr 99, multiboard@paneris.co.uk said that ...
> Reply to this message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/PFE/messages/37.shtml
>
> Subject: PFEWeb site comments
> From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
> Frank,
>
> Just looked at what you have done for the main site.
>
> It looks to me as though the following would be good:
>
> The Agents should lead to database queries.
> Bangla.html should become PFEAgentViewTemplate.wm
> Organisations should have a country field.
>
> I am not sure, but think that quotations should work off the db.
>
> The Schedule should be in the db.
>
> These are all beyond the spec, but take the system up
> to a higher level of completness.
>
> Not sure how the search is meant to work, but
> we will have to think of something.
Please Tim, no messages like this until PFETrack is up and
running!!!!! ;)
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
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9377,'Sat May 1 2:02:10 1999','Stuff',3,0,'
Hi Tim,
Got your voicemail this evening.
Sorry to hear you\'re knackered - you and me both (but at least you
don\'t have the client breathing down your neck). However, I\'m still
waiting for instruction from you/paneris/hoop on templates for
PFETrack. I have set aside this weekend to get some heavy work done
on this project without phones ringing etc. and I want to be able to
show PFE some concrete results by Tuesday.
I need your input. Don\'t let me down, son - counting on you.
Frank Wognum
**********************************************************
> AirFlow Design: WWW Graphic & Design Studios <
> http://www.airflow.net <
> Tel: +44 (0)1245 352 908 Fax: +44 (0)1245 348 908 <
**********************************************************
"We only get one chance to make a First Impression...
...Let\'s Make It Count"
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9378,'Sat May 1 2:17:34 1999','Re: Re: PFEWeb site comments',3,9376,'
>In message to us re: "PFEWeb site comments [/partners/airflow/PFE/ by
>TimP]" dated 29 Apr 99, multiboard@paneris.co.uk said that ...
>> Reply to this message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/PFE/messages/37.shtml
>>
>> Subject: PFEWeb site comments
>> From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>>
>> Frank,
>>
>> Just looked at what you have done for the main site.
>>
>> It looks to me as though the following would be good:
>>
>> The Agents should lead to database queries.
>> Bangla.html should become PFEAgentViewTemplate.wm
>> Organisations should have a country field.
>>
>> I am not sure, but think that quotations should work off the db.
>>
>> The Schedule should be in the db.
>>
>> These are all beyond the spec, but take the system up
>> to a higher level of completness.
>>
>> Not sure how the search is meant to work, but
>> we will have to think of something.
>Please Tim, no messages like this until PFETrack is up and
>running!!!!! ;)
Seriously,
The above fall into two categories: nice to have and
essential.
I have had to move supplier country out of purchase_orders and
add a supplier key.
This is now working.
Tim has got the a demo of the real user
modules working at http://www.paneris.org/finsbury.html
(this also demos the next generation message boards which
you might like)
I have gotten the acan data into organisations, countries and
purchase_orders.
If you want to alter the data now, to make it more realistic,
please do, but let me know so that I don\'t overwrite it.
I now have to add shipping details and remarks to the order object that Myles has half done.
This will lead to a template which you can modify, which will be the main user experience of the site.
However you can start working immediately on
the existing site.
You have to get an idea of the system, and produce a
typical data entry page.
So I don\'t think that I am holding you up at the moment.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
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9379,'Sat May 1 2:30:10 1999','Re: Stuff',3,9377,'
Frank,
>I need your input. Don\'t let me down, son - counting on you.
It is 2.31 on May Eve, and there is a party going on, which I am missing.
I am working as hard as I can, any more pressure and quality will suffer.
It is not clear what you are waiting for.
There are loads of screens which you can start working on.
For example:
http://www.paneris.org/PFETrack/login.html
http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/PFEOrders?userid=1&key=home_agent
Is not complete, but you can restyle it anyway.
You say we need a summary screen, which you can mock up.
http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/AdministrationEdit?db=PFETrack&wmtemplate=PFETrack/templates/AdministrationEdit.wm&table=purchase_order_lines&purchase_order_key=1&id=0
is a typical edit screen, we need one for each table.
Please don\'t \'wait for me\' as I would benefit from you input;
the skeleton at the moment is very bare and example mockups
of what you would like to see would help.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9380,'Sat May 1 6:51:47 1999','Help Tim !',3,0,'
Time,
I have modified the code that Myles wrote,
(order.java).
It is called at:
http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/PFEOrders?userid=2&key=organisation
And for some reason remarks (which I added) differently to
p_order_lines which Myles added.
I have worked all night on it and can\'t crack it.
Myles has celebrated may day so won\'t be able to help.
Could you have a look?
I expect it is a REAL newbie error.
yours
tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9381,'Sat May 1 9:27:01 1999','Re: Help Tim !',1,9380,'
>Time,
"is all i have without you here" - Billy Bragg.
>I have modified the code that Myles wrote,
>(order.java).
>It is called at:
>http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/PFEOrders?userid=2&key=organisation
>And for some reason remarks (which I added) differently to
>p_order_lines which Myles added.
>I have worked all night on it and can\'t crack it.
>Myles has celebrated may day so won\'t be able to help.
>Could you have a look?
>I expect it is a REAL newbie error.
no, not really, it was just complianing that you wanted to itterate through the remarks vector which wasn\'t populated (i have added and #if check to ensure it is not null).
also the items had $order prepended:
$remark.message.DisplayValue is correct when you are itterating through $remarks
$order.remark.message.DisplayValue is wrong.
so it all looks a lot better now.
I tried to add a remark and found the po number was set to \'unique\' so have turned this off in the dd.
I still can\'t get remarks to list out (sorry). not sure why, all the code looks fine. off to guernsey now. see you tuesday.
timj
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9382,'Sat May 1 10:53:27 1999','Status on Sturday Morning',3,0,'
Frank,
The site is working, with one small bug:
The remarks are not listed.
The remarks are entered correctly.
So I don\'t believe there is anything that you are waiting for me on.
I think that the best way forward is:
Go through the skeleton.
Save each page, giving names like suppliers_orders.html
Country_list.html etc,
but keep a record of the URL that each file came from.
I will then translate your mockups back into templates.
Hope this makes sense.
I have worked all night, so am a bit frayed.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9383,'Mon May 3 18:35:03 1999','Progress assessment',102,0,'
Hi Tim,
I have had major problems getting to grips with your PFETrack, which
has huge implications as to the customer\'s perceived sense of our
success AND competence. If I\'m having problems, you may rest assured
that the client\'s going to be waaay out of his depth with it and I am
simply not prepared to give the client even a glance at what we have
at the moment. Please try to understand this, especially since we are
obviously not going to meet the client\'s deadline of 5th May. I have
never missed a deadline, so this will be an embarrassment for me, as
well as a personal failure. I spoke to the client on Sunday afternoon
and informed him that we were definitely going to deliver late. He
wasn\'t happy, but we have some breathing space.
Customers are NOT bright, they are NOT clever, they are simply good at
their chosen field, but are sometimes INCREDIBLY simple when dealing
with anything else. They need their hands held throughout this process
and if we don\'t do this, however superb our product is, then we have
failed. I feel your PFETrack is just too complicated and doesn\'t
follow the Functional Spec (FS). Whether this is my perception of what
we have or not is important, because if it\'s only cosmetic changes
required to make the beta conform to the FS, then we\'re in better
shape than I think.
I\'ve gone back to the beginning (always the best place to start) and
have spent hours (and I recognise that you and the lads have also
spent hours working on this as well) working with the FS as the
structural basis for my assessment. With Acan Gold on the laptop (but
using this as a reference source, NOT a template), the FS in front of
me and PFETrack running on the website I have tried to cover
everything. Inevitably I shall have missed some things, but I think
this will cover 95% of my concerns. It was the client for whom the FS
was finalised, and which he agreed to and signed off. He did not sign
off Acan Gold, which he has consigned to the waste basket - this means
we should be working to the FS, NOT Acan Gold. I want the structure
and terminology used in PFETrack to be as stated in the FS (as amended
by my work, which of course you didn\'t know about until now) and we
should deviate from it only with very good reason. If anything in what
I have done will not work then you need to tell me, and why, so that I
can be prepared with the answers for the client.
So, I have created an invisible link on the PFE website
(www.pfeweb.com) about an inch under the AirFlow Design logo in the
left frame which loads into the PFE website frameset a version of how
I think PFETrack should work. Notes in red are mandatory functionality
as specified by the client. You can go to
www.pfeweb.com/pfetrack/pfetrack.zip to download all my pages (which
also contains this document and \'Functional Spec.html\'). The HTML is
typically crap FrontPage98 stuff, but I simply didn\'t have the time to
handcode this. Please go to the website and review it. It may differ
slightly from the Func Spec which I posted to Paneris, but essentially
it is the same, just slightly evolved in the light of having given
more thought to what the client wants. These files are prospective
templates based on what I and the client expected to see. I haven\'t
used your work, because there are simply too many differences between
the work on Paneris and what was in the FS (if these are perceived
differences, great - it means less work to get this product to
delivery, and just means that I can\'t understand your work).
Finally, please note that there are two items (unless I have missed
them) in the FS which have not been addressed on the Paneris version:
1. The \'Copy Previous Info\' button.
2. Split shipments (not covered in my PFETrack, but is included in FS)
3. Reports
Let me have your comments as soon as practicable, please.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9384,'Mon May 3 20:02:14 1999','db.log',3,0,'
Can we increase this limit?
Mon May 03 18:37:03 GMT 1999: Registered JDBC driver postgresql.Driver
Mon May 03 18:37:03 GMT 1999: Initialized pool sugar
Mon May 03 18:37:03 GMT 1999: Initialized pool finsbury
Mon May 03 18:37:03 GMT 1999: Initialized pool acan
Mon May 03 18:37:03 GMT 1999: Initialized pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:03 GMT 1999: Initialized pool radcliffe
Mon May 03 18:37:03 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:03 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:06 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:06 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:06 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:08 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:08 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:08 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:10 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:10 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:10 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:12 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:12 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:12 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:12 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:14 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:14 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:16 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:16 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:16 GMT 1999: Can\'t create a new connection for jdbc:postgresql:pfetrack
java.sql.SQLException: Connection failed: java.net.SocketException: Too many open files
at postgresql.Connection.(Connection.java:166)
at postgresql.Driver.connect(Driver.java:87)
at java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(DriverManager.java:83)
at java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(DriverManager.java:126)
at org.paneris.util.DBConnectionManager$DBConnectionPool.newConnection(DBConnectionManager.java:405)
at org.paneris.util.DBConnectionManager$DBConnectionPool.getConnection(DBConnectionManager.java:338)
at org.paneris.util.DBConnectionManager.getConnection(DBConnectionManager.java:101)
at org.paneris.util.SQLMetaData.(SQLMetaData.java:112)
at org.paneris.util.FieldMetaData.(FieldMetaData.java:61)
at org.paneris.util.DataCache.getFieldMetaData(DataCache.java:103)
at org.paneris.util.TableMetaData.init(TableMetaData.java:103)
at org.paneris.util.TableMetaData.(TableMetaData.java:47)
at org.paneris.util.DataCache.getTableMetaData(DataCache.java:59)
at org.paneris.util.ResultsSet.(ResultsSet.java:28)
at org.paneris.PFETrack.OrderLine.(OrderLine.java:27)
at org.paneris.PFETrack.Order.init(Order.java:94)
at org.paneris.PFETrack.Order.(Order.java:47)
at PFEOrders.handle(PFEOrders.java:60)
at org.webmacro.servlet.WMServlet.doRequest(WMServlet.java:181)
at org.webmacro.servlet.WMServlet.doGet(WMServlet.java:156)
at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:499)
at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:588)
at org.apache.jserv.JServConnection.run(JServConnection.java:359)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java)
Mon May 03 18:37:29 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:29 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:29 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:37:29 GMT 1999: Can\'t create a new connection for jdbc:postgresql:pfetrack
java.sql.SQLException: Connection failed: java.net.SocketException: Too many open files
at postgresql.Connection.(Connection.java:166)
at postgresql.Driver.connect(Driver.java:87)
at java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(DriverManager.java:83)
at java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(DriverManager.java:126)
at org.paneris.util.DBConnectionManager$DBConnectionPool.newConnection(DBConnectionManager.java:405)
at org.paneris.util.DBConnectionManager$DBConnectionPool.getConnection(DBConnectionManager.java:338)
at org.paneris.util.DBConnectionManager.getConnection(DBConnectionManager.java:101)
at org.paneris.util.SQLMetaData.(SQLMetaData.java:112)
at org.paneris.util.FieldMetaData.(FieldMetaData.java:61)
at org.paneris.util.DataCache.getFieldMetaData(DataCache.java:103)
at org.paneris.util.TableMetaData.init(TableMetaData.java:103)
at org.paneris.util.TableMetaData.(TableMetaData.java:47)
at org.paneris.util.DataCache.getTableMetaData(DataCache.java:59)
at org.paneris.util.ResultsSet.(ResultsSet.java:28)
at org.paneris.PFETrack.OrderLine.(OrderLine.java:27)
at org.paneris.PFETrack.Order.init(Order.java:94)
at org.paneris.PFETrack.Order.(Order.java:47)
at PFEOrders.handle(PFEOrders.java:60)
at org.webmacro.servlet.WMServlet.doRequest(WMServlet.java:181)
at org.webmacro.servlet.WMServlet.doGet(WMServlet.java:156)
at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:499)
at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:588)
at org.apache.jserv.JServConnection.run(JServConnection.java:359)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java)
Mon May 03 18:41:27 GMT 1999: Registered JDBC driver postgresql.Driver
Mon May 03 18:41:27 GMT 1999: Initialized pool sugar
Mon May 03 18:41:27 GMT 1999: Initialized pool finsbury
Mon May 03 18:41:27 GMT 1999: Initialized pool acan
Mon May 03 18:41:27 GMT 1999: Initialized pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:41:27 GMT 1999: Initialized pool radcliffe
Mon May 03 18:41:27 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:41:30 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:41:30 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:41:30 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:41:32 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:41:32 GMT 1999: Created a new connection in pool PFETrack
Mon May 03 18:41:33 GMT 1999: Can\'t create a new connection for jdbc:postgresql:pfetrack
java.sql.SQLException: Connection failed: java.net.SocketException: Too many open files
at postgresql.Connection.(Connection.java:166)
at postgresql.Driver.connect(Driver.java:87)
at java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(DriverManager.java:83)
at java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(DriverManager.java:126)
at org.paneris.util.DBConnectionManager$DBConnectionPool.newConnection(DBConnectionManager.java:405)
at org.paneris.util.DBConnectionManager$DBConnectionPool.getConnection(DBConnectionManager.java:338)
at org.paneris.util.DBConnectionManager.getConnection(DBConnectionManager.java:101)
at org.paneris.util.FieldMetaData.(FieldMetaData.java:42)
at org.paneris.util.DataCache.getFieldMetaData(DataCache.java:103)
at org.paneris.util.TableMetaData.init(TableMetaData.java:103)
at org.paneris.util.TableMetaData.(TableMetaData.java:47)
at org.paneris.util.DataCache.getTableMetaData(DataCache.java:59)
at org.paneris.util.ResultsSet.(ResultsSet.java:65)
at org.paneris.util.DataCache.updateResultsSets(DataCache.java:132)
at org.paneris.util.DataCache.getResultsSet(DataCache.java:124)
at PFEOrders.handle(PFEOrders.java:36)
at org.webmacro.servlet.WMServlet.doRequest(WMServlet.java:181)
at org.webmacro.servlet.WMServlet.doGet(WMServlet.java:156)
at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:499)
at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:588)
at org.apache.jserv.JServConnection.run(JServConnection.java:359)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java)
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9385,'Mon May 3 20:37:50 1999','Re: db.log',3,9384,'
Will, (Kira, Rachel),
Chippy and Tim are not about, but if you are
now (20.35 03/05/99) could you spare a mo?
As far as I can see the \'Too many open files\'
is not a Java error, but an OS error.
It is something I can alter?
I have looked about but can see nothing in
apache/etc that seems appropriate.
yours
timP
>
>Can we increase this limit?
>Mon May 03 18:37:03 GMT 1999: Registered JDBC driver postgresql.Driver
>Mon May 03 18:37:03 GMT 1999: Initialized pool sugar
>[Long message snipped in conversion from paneris1]
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9386,'Mon May 3 21:55:28 1999','Re: Progress assessment',102,9383,'
Hi Tim,
A quick addendum to my last communication regarding the Project Status
assessment.
Split Shipment
==============
An Importer has input a new Order. It will happen that when in Amend
Order, the Agent will fill one container with part of the order and
another container(s) with the remainder. Shipments may even be split
across different vessels. In this case, as advised by the client, I
would like it to work as follows:
(Go to /pfetrack/agtamendorder.html)
AirFlow Design Importers have requested 3000 items to be collected
from Blah Blah Factory.
(Go to /pfetrack/agtamendorder.html#ship)
The Agent, Gupta Shipping, enter the shipping details as in any normal
order, but instead of, under \'Shipped Quantity\', entering 3000, they
enter 1700. They complete the Shipping Information and click the
button at the foot of the page to complete their part of the order.
PFETrack should calculate the difference between \'Quantity Required\'
and \'Shipped Quantity\'. If one equals the other, the next page
displayed should be /pfetrack/agtlogin1.html. If, however, as in this
case, the former is greater than the latter it should display the
following page (which I have uploaded): /pfetrack/agtsplit.html.
The Agent can then add new shipping information, flag the variance as
being acceptable, or return to the previous screen to correct a
possible error.
Please note I have added a new button to Shipping Information on this
screen [Copy Information], which places the contents of the previous
screen\'s Shipping Information into this screen.
--------------------
Hope the above is clear. If not, give us a scream.
Cheers for now.
Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9387,'Mon May 3 22:06:07 1999','Re: Re: Progress assessment',102,9386,'
Quick addendum to my last.
> If, however, as in this
> case, the former is greater than the latter it should display the
> following page (which I have uploaded): /pfetrack/agtsplit.html.
This page can also be accessed by clicking a new link at the
foot of the Agent\'s Amend Order screen (just so\'s you see how
I\'d like it to work.
Cheers for now.
Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9388,'Mon May 3 22:07:38 1999','Re: Re: Progress assessment',102,9386,'
Quick addendum to my last.
> If, however, as in this
> case, the former is greater than the latter it should display the
> following page (which I have uploaded): /pfetrack/agtsplit.html.
This page can also be accessed by clicking a new link at the
foot of the Agent\'s Amend Order screen (just so\'s you see how
I\'d like it to work.
Cheers for now.
Frank
(have you any idea how difficult it is to open a pack of
Clorets, whilst rolling a fag and type this, all at the
same time? Bugger it, fag ash in me keyboard)
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9389,'Mon May 3 23:45:26 1999','Re: Re: Help Tim !',3,9381,'
>no, not really, it was just complianing that you wanted to itterate through the remarks vector which wasn\'t populated (i have added and #if check to ensure it is not null).
Cool,
so if a vector can be empty, then one needs to put a check in the template.
>also the items had $order prepended:
>$remark.message.DisplayValue is correct when you are itterating through $remarks
>$order.remark.message.DisplayValue is wrong.
>so it all looks a lot better now.
Thanks, me being a dumbass
>I tried to add a remark and found the po number was set to \'unique\' so have turned this off in the dd.
Thanks, will change.
>I still can\'t get remarks to list out (sorry).
>not sure why, all the code looks fine.
It looks like we have hit some apache/postgres/unix file open limit
>off to guernsey now. see you tuesday.
Have fun.
Thanks a lot for the help, could not have
delivered to Frank without, though he has started from scratched as he was
scared by raw dbadmin output.
Talk to you Tuesday
tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9390,'Tue May 4 0:04:09 1999','Re: Progress assessment',3,9383,'
Hi Frank,
Thank you for the skeleton.
It is great, and I have found no problems yet.
[snip]
> The HTML is
>typically crap FrontPage98 stuff, but I simply didn\'t have the time to
>handcode this.
What do you want to do about this?
It is full of \'MS Sans-Serif\' which will make it look a bit weird on macs/unix.
If you want me to clean it up we can, but will take time, and
you are in control of the look and feel.
What you have given us is a great skeleton, but I don\'t want
to wire it up and then have to do it again.
>Finally, please note that there are two items (unless I have missed
>them) in the FS which have not been addressed on the Paneris version:
>1. The \'Copy Previous Info\' button.
TimJ has an example of this, I think.
>2. Split shipments (not covered in my PFETrack, but is included in FS)
This is available using multiple shipping detail records for
purchase lines. This will be done as per our conversation/your message.
>3. Reports
These will be done as per your skeleton.
Speak to you tomorrow.
yours
timp
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9391,'Tue May 4 1:27:03 1999','Queries',3,0,'
Frank,
Some points for clarification:
I am right in assuming that the red text is to be deleted.
The Agent, in agtamendorder.html, shouldn\'t be allowed to alter the
purchase order, so he would get no [Edit This]
I don\'t understand why you have an \'Edit this\' button against
each line.
Surely just one update button per table?
Your design for the Purchase Order Screen does not allow
for more than one item on a purchase order.
They may buy 300 umbrellas, 400 balls, 500 trumpets all from one
supplier, how should that be displayed?
I think you need a Purchase Order Header and then a Lines section.
Docs Recieved is in twice on shipping details.
What is cartons used for?
It is a number at present.
I have 2 container numbers and 2 seal numbers, but don\'t think we need them,
as they part-shipments are catered for with multiple shipping_details lines.
You do not have a container seal number, but acan has, I will add.
Should the PFE Reference be at the top, currently we only have a home_agent_ref against
the purchase_order, not the shipping_detail.
I have nearly finished agtamendorder.html, I think, in 1 hour, but cannot test as
there is a \'too many files open at once\' problem which I need timj/myles to help with.
Should have something good tommorrow.
yours
Tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9392,'Tue May 4 1:39:05 1999','Frank\'s new skeleton',3,0,'
Boys,
Frank has made a new skeleton, a link to which is on the site.
Frank has told the customer we will deliver late, and is
rather disappointed, as he has never gone late before :(
But the new skeleton looks good, and has few implications
for the data design that I have seen yet.
I can\'t test my template http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/PFEOrders?userid=2&key=organisation&wmtemplate=PFETrack/templates/ag_amend_order.wm
because, I think, of the file open problem.
To demo the project we need to:
Investigate file open problem
Add field validation
Add User Handling
Add \'Copy from last shipping details\'
Wire up skeleton
I can do the skeleton, I think, though there are quite a few new handlers.
tim:
Is the user handling ready?
How do you do a \'copy from last record\' - (RTFC)
Do you have any spare time :)
myles:
When will user handling and field validation be available?
As these two are not essential for the demo will you have time to wire up some templates?
night
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9393,'Tue May 4 7:26:07 1999','Re: db.log',1,9384,'
Looks to me like someone is not returning connections to the pool.
Just had a look, and both Order and OrderLine were commiting this cardinal sin. so have fixed this, and updated cvs (but not compiled on ganesh).
This was easy to spot, but often it\'s not, I was thinking of changing:
connMgr.getConnection(db); and
connMgr.freeConnection(database, conn);
so that they take the calling class name as one of the arguments. this would help loads with debugging (as the log can easily be used to spot naughty classes).
is this a good idea?
it there any way to get hold of the class name of the calling object withough passing it explicitly?
timj
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9394,'Tue May 4 7:32:12 1999','Re: Re: Re: Help Tim !',1,9389,'
>so if a vector can be empty, then one needs to put a check in the template.
I don\'t think this usually necessary. I think the real culprit was the connection bug.
>
>>off to guernsey now. see you tuesday.
>Have fun.
did, guernsey is lovely. brill day on the beach yesterday.
timj
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9395,'Tue May 4 7:56:56 1999','Re: Frank\'s new skeleton',1,9392,'
>Frank has made a new skeleton, a link to which is on the site.
nice
>I can\'t test my template http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/PFEOrders?userid=2&key=organisation&wmtemplate=PFETrack/templates/ag_amend_order.wm
>because, I think, of the file open problem.
should now be fixed
>To demo the project we need to:
>Investigate file open problem
>Add field validation
I am very keen on client side javascript validation, and chippy is keen in server-side stuff. we really should do both, but the server stuff should do to start with.
>Add User Handling
this is in place (ie you can be forced to login). however we dont have a permissions system, which is probably what you need. I have thought a bit about this and have a \'cunning plan\'. it\'s probably a bit too cunning (too time consuming to implement) to be included in PFE. I intend to write a design doc for discussion, hopefully tomorrow.
>Add \'Copy from last shipping details\'
>Wire up skeleton
>I can do the skeleton, I think, though there are quite a few new handlers.
>tim:
>Is the user handling ready?
see above
>How do you do a \'copy from last record\' - (RTFC)
i would add a duplicate() method to order.java. not sure of the exact requirement here.
>Do you have any spare time :)
ok, here is my plan for the week:
tue: sort through work that wasn\'t tackled because i was writing the messageboard system
wed: various small urgent tasks
thur: potentially free, hoping to write desing doc for user permission handling
fri: accounts etc.
any good? I will be onhand to fix problems and give advise. what else would you like me to do?
>myles:
>When will user handling and field validation be available?
I suggest user handling is "hard coded" in the handlers for this project (as opposed to building it into the dd - as per above). is this possible?
timj
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9396,'Tue May 4 7:59:19 1999','Re: db.log',99,9384,'Posted on behalf of Rachel by TimJ
>>
>> Chippy and Tim are not about, but if you are
>> now (20.35 03/05/99) could you spare a mo?
>>
>> As far as I can see the \'Too many open files\'
>> is not a Java error, but an OS error.
>
>Could be more than 1024 open files in total on the server. If you need more
>than that, I think Alon Cox\'s patch series lets you do it.
>
>More likely there\'s something else wrong, but I\'ve no idea what. I\'ve not
>encountered this; and Kira flood-tested a Jrun/Postgres/Linux site while we
>were still at Epinet. She\'d got up to about 400 concurrent connections
>without problems.
>
>My personal take is that I distrust the idea of "connection pools". I think
>it\'s possible you could have leaks. My personal preference is to open and
>close connections as needed (well, generally the servlet/JSP opens a
>connection and uses it for the duration of its execution for all the things
>it does, at the end of which it closes) and to take the slight performance
>hit in favour of solidity.
>
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9397,'Tue May 4 8:04:35 1999','Re: Re: db.log',1,9396,'
>>My personal take is that I distrust the idea of "connection pools". I think
>>it\'s possible you could have leaks. My personal preference is to open and
>>close connections as needed (well, generally the servlet/JSP opens a
>>connection and uses it for the duration of its execution for all the things
>>it does, at the end of which it closes) and to take the slight performance
>>hit in favour of solidity.
>>
I\'m also not sure about connection pooling, but it strikes me like a good idea. Why have the overhead of opening and closing these each time? In theory it should be just as solid as a non-pooled system, and perform much better under stress. I think we should stick with it. not sure where the \'leaks\' would come from (apart from not returning connections to the pool).
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9398,'Tue May 4 12:52:07 1999','Re: Frank\'s new skeleton',2,9392,'
>Boys,
>Frank has made a new skeleton, a link to which is on the site.
>Frank has told the customer we will deliver late, and is
>rather disappointed, as he has never gone late before :(
>But the new skeleton looks good, and has few implications
>for the data design that I have seen yet.
>I can\'t test my template http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/PFEOrders?userid=2&key=organisation&wmtemplate=PFETrack/templates/ag_amend_order.wm
>because, I think, of the file open problem.
>To demo the project we need to:
>Investigate file open problem
>Add field validation
>Add User Handling
>Add \'Copy from last shipping details\'
>Wire up skeleton
>I can do the skeleton, I think, though there are quite a few new handlers.
>tim:
>Is the user handling ready?
>How do you do a \'copy from last record\' - (RTFC)
>Do you have any spare time :)
>myles:
>When will user handling and field validation be available?
When you want it. Give it a day.
>As these two are not essential for the demo will you have time to wire up some templates?
yes. Myles
>night
>timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9399,'Tue May 4 15:03:21 1999','Re: Re: db.log',3,9396,'
Thanks Rachel,
>>>
>>> Chippy and Tim are not about, but if you are
>>> now (20.35 03/05/99) could you spare a mo?
>>>
>>> As far as I can see the \'Too many open files\'
>>> is not a Java error, but an OS error.
>>
>>Could be more than 1024 open files in total on the server. If you need more
>>than that, I think Alon Cox\'s patch series lets you do it.
>>
>>More likely there\'s something else wrong, but I\'ve no idea what. I\'ve not
>>encountered this; and Kira flood-tested a Jrun/Postgres/Linux site while we
>>were still at Epinet. She\'d got up to about 400 concurrent connections
>>without problems.
>>
>>My personal take is that I distrust the idea of "connection pools". I think
>>it\'s possible you could have leaks. My personal preference is to open and
>>close connections as needed (well, generally the servlet/JSP opens a
>>connection and uses it for the duration of its execution for all the things
>>it does, at the end of which it closes) and to take the slight performance
>>hit in favour of solidity.
>>
TimJ found the problem, Myles wasn\'t freeing any connections.
Thanks again
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9400,'Wed May 5 11:22:29 1999','Re: Re: Progress assessment',3,9390,'
Hi Tim,
> > The HTML is
> >typically crap FrontPage98 stuff, but I simply didn\'t have the time to
> >handcode this.
>
> What do you want to do about this?
> It is full of \'MS Sans-Serif\' which will make it look a bit weird on macs/unix.
I\'m 99% certain nobody at PFE or their customers is using anything
other than Windows. Remember, the people who will be using this also
had Acan Gold set up on their sustems.
> If you want me to clean it up we can, but will take time, and
> you are in control of the look and feel.
Leave it - don\'t want to waste anybody\'s time.
I\'ll answer your other message now.
Frank Wognum
**********************************************************
> AirFlow Design: WWW Graphic & Design Studios <
> http://www.airflow.net <
> Tel: +44 (0)1245 352 908 Fax: +44 (0)1245 348 908 <
**********************************************************
"We only get one chance to make a First Impression...
...Let\'s Make It Count"
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9401,'Wed May 5 11:23:09 1999','Re: Queries',3,9391,'
In message to us re: "Queries [/partners/airflow/PFE/ by TimP]" dated
03 May 99, multiboard@paneris.co.uk said that ...
> Some points for clarification:
>
> I am right in assuming that the red text is to be deleted.
Yup.
> The Agent, in agtamendorder.html, shouldn\'t be allowed to alter the
> purchase order, so he would get no [Edit This]
He doesn\'t have any [Edit This] in the purchase order, but he does in
the shipping information.
> I don\'t understand why you have an \'Edit this\' button against
> each line.
> Surely just one update button per table?
User-friendly feature. It doesn\'t matter what happens in the
background, but it\'s important to let users think they have to
confirm an alteration before going ahead. Remember we\'re dealing with
drongos here, not computer-savvy people.
> Your design for the Purchase Order Screen does not allow
> for more than one item on a purchase order.
> They may buy 300 umbrellas, 400 balls, 500 trumpets all from one
> supplier, how should that be displayed?
> I think you need a Purchase Order Header and then a Lines section.
There never was anything like that in Acan Gold and I haven\'t seen
multiple lines in any of the orders I have seen. You have the
original tables from the files I sent you. Any multiple orders there?
If so maybe we need to think again, but otherwise best leave it as it
is. If the customer wants it as you have suggested, it\'s not in te
functional spec and he\'ll have to pay for it.
> Docs Recieved is in twice on shipping details.
Well spotted. Remove the second one.
>
> What is cartons used for?
> It is a number at present.
Yes, it is a number but, like most of the other fields, is merely an
information field - not used in any calculations.
>
> I have 2 container numbers and 2 seal numbers, but don\'t think we need them,
> as they part-shipments are catered for with multiple shipping_details lines.
>
> You do not have a container seal number, but acan has, I will add.
I DO have a container number (comes after ETA). There is no \'container
seal\' in the FS so please don\'t add one.
> Should the PFE Reference be at the top,
No. The PFE reference is added by PFE during or after the event and
is for their reference only, although they will sometimes ask a
customer for their \'MFI\' number (the prefix is always \'MFI\'). Please
leave it in the order as shown.
> currently we only have a home_agent_ref against
> the purchase_order, not the shipping_detail.
Shipping details are added by the Agent who will not have access to
PFE\'s in-house indexing system, so he can\'t add an \'MFI\' number.
> I have nearly finished agtamendorder.html, I think, in 1 hour, but cannot test as
> there is a \'too many files open at once\' problem which I need timj/myles to help with.
>
> Should have something good tommorrow.
Well done. Look forward to hearing from you next.
We haven\'t discussed archiving. Is this required?. My suggestion is
that once an order is flagged \'Complete\', it stays in the current
database for 30 days and is then archived. However, I don\'t know if,
when a user wants a report of previous activity, the program can
interrogate working files and archived ones simultaneously. Yours
suggestions on this would be appreciated.
Finally, since the information contained in the database is critical,
I wonder if the program could mail an activity report to the Clent
every seven days? Again, your suggestions would be appreciated.
Cheers for now.
Frank Wognum
**********************************************************
> AirFlow Design: WWW Graphic & Design Studios <
> http://www.airflow.net <
> Tel: +44 (0)1245 352 908 Fax: +44 (0)1245 348 908 <
**********************************************************
"We only get one chance to make a First Impression...
...Let\'s Make It Count"
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9402,'Wed May 5 20:03:31 1999','db changes',3,0,'
This is a thread to keep track of changes which should be made.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9403,'Wed May 5 20:05:22 1999','Remove supplier_key from purchase_order_lines',3,9402,'
>This is a thread to keep track of changes which should be made.
supplier_key is in both purchase_order and purchase_order_lines.
It should only be in the purchase order, though
this means that each purchase order must be on one terminal supplier.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9404,'Wed May 5 20:07:55 1999','delete container_number_2 and seal_number_2',3,9402,'
>This is a thread to keep track of changes which should be made.
Both these fields are inappropriate duplicates, as the
one-to-many realtionship between purchase_order_lines and shipping_details
means that a second container gets a second shipping_details record.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9405,'Wed May 5 20:09:43 1999','Make purchase_order_key non unique in remarks',3,9402,'
A purchase_order may have more than one remark.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9406,'Thu May 6 3:59:16 1999','Demo up!',3,0,'
Frank,
The Importer option now goes all the way through.
See http://www.paneris.org/PFETrack/login.html
You can break it easily, not least by using a
purchase order number that has been used before.
The data is a mess, generally,
this is not a \'check for bugs\' release, but
just in case you thought we would never get anything finished :)
You would not believe how tricky it has been.
Tommorrow I will tidy up and maybe start on reports.
Myles is hoping to get started on the field validation.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9407,'Fri May 7 9:51:08 1999','Re: Demo up!',3,9406,'
In message to us re: "Demo up! [/partners/airflow/PFE/ by TimP]"
dated 05 May 99, multiboard@paneris.co.uk said that ...
> Frank,
Hi Tim,
>
> The Importer option now goes all the way through.
>
> See http://www.paneris.org/PFETrack/login.html
>
> You can break it easily, not least by using a
> purchase order number that has been used before.
>
> The data is a mess, generally,
> this is not a \'check for bugs\' release, but
> just in case you thought we would never get anything finished :)
>
> You would not believe how tricky it has been.
>
> Tommorrow I will tidy up and maybe start on reports.
>
> Myles is hoping to get started on the field validation.
I had a quick look, but since the interface is the same as it was
before, I decided not to go any further than Add Order. It still has
many of the same redundant fields that I noted a week ago, so I felt
there\'s no point in carrying on.
I\'m snowed under at the moment, so don\'t worry about me for the
moment. Just concentrate on getting a working demo up there using my
templates. You don\'t need to keep me informed of anything else... I
trust you (famous last words!).
If you need to get hold of me, I\'m going away Friday afternoon for a
weekend away from the computer, although I\'ll have the mobile with me
at all times (0831 351108).
Cheers for now.
Frank Wognum
**********************************************************
> AirFlow Design: WWW Graphic & Design Studios <
> http://www.airflow.net <
> Tel: +44 (0)1245 352 908 Fax: +44 (0)1245 348 908 <
**********************************************************
"We only get one chance to make a First Impression...
...Let\'s Make It Count"
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9408,'Thu May 13 18:56:51 1999','Deleted Remarks',3,9405,'
>A purchase_order may have more than one remark.
No point, deleted remarks.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9409,'Thu May 13 18:57:12 1999','Done',3,9404,'
>>This is a thread to keep track of changes which should be made.
>
>Both these fields are inappropriate duplicates, as the
>one-to-many realtionship between purchase_order_lines and shipping_details
>means that a second container gets a second shipping_details record.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9410,'Thu May 13 18:57:34 1999','Done',3,9403,'
>>This is a thread to keep track of changes which should be made.
>supplier_key is in both purchase_order and purchase_order_lines.
>It should only be in the purchase order, though
>this means that each purchase order must be on one terminal supplier.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9411,'Thu May 13 18:58:17 1999','Change size of place_of_unpacking',3,9402,'
Its too big.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9412,'Thu May 20 2:35:51 1999','Status',3,0,'
Frank,
I have cleared down the database,
Made full and brief reports work,
Changed the screen shown when orders are added.
Changed the colour of an \'active\' shipping details input form.
Got the logic right(?) for adding shipping detail records,
So some progress today:)
I am not happy with teh navigation, it is easy to get stuck,
without getting back to where you want, and \'back\' gives
you a duplicate record error.
The logic for the shipping details is:
if the number shipped on this shipping record is not 0
if the number required > number shipped so far plus this record
add a blank shipping record (not a copy of previous one)
In the amend screen if the number shipped is 0 then the background is a different colour.
Do you mind that I have not put ETA/ETD on the selection form?
Should the order-by field be on the selection form? (rather than the resort button?)
Do you still want \'full report for this item\' on brief report?
Does it matter that notes are not printed on the reports?
TODO:
Get login working properly.
Add PFE/Agent options
Add paging to reports?
Define what we are going to do about emails to PFE/Importer/Agent/Supplier
(Use TimJs new messagebords? see http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/ListBoards?db=finsbury)
Define what upload/download facility is to be implemented.
Hope all is going well.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9413,'Thu May 20 12:33:36 1999','Re: Status',102,9412,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> Frank,
Hi Tim,
Thanks for your e-mail,
>
> I have cleared down the database,
> Made full and brief reports work,
In Full, Supplier Country is still incorrect and moneys should have
two decimal places after the point.
In Abbreviated, Re-sort returns an error.
> Changed the screen shown when orders are added.
> Changed the colour of an \'active\' shipping details input form.
Hmmm... don\'t like that. It doesn\'t look intentional. Looks more like
a bgcolor mistake. Best leave it the way it was unless you can think
of a more striking colour that will work.
> Got the logic right(?) for adding shipping detail records,
In View/Amend, the \'Add to This\' button doesn\'t do anything, and when
you change a Remark, it Replaces it, rather than Apends to the
original.
> I am not happy with teh navigation, it is easy to get stuck,
> without getting back to where you want, and \'back\' gives
> you a duplicate record error.
I have created a button table (attached) which can be used instead of
the back button, although I think we should keep the back button (new
one) as well - give them the option. I also would like those buttons
to replace the options we have on all pages - hence two button tables
in my attachment: one for the top of the page, one for the bottom.
Obviously the Administration button is for PFE Login only.
> The logic for the shipping details is:
>
> if the number shipped on this shipping record is not 0
> if the number required > number shipped so far plus this record
> add a blank shipping record (not a copy of previous one)
Works for me.
>
> In the amend screen if the number shipped is 0 then the background is a different colour.
OK, see above.
>
> Do you mind that I have not put ETA/ETD on the selection form?
Please elaborate
> Should the order-by field be on the selection form? (rather than the resort button?)
Please elaborate
> Do you still want \'full report for this item\' on brief report?
Yes please
> Does it matter that notes are not printed on the reports?
No, remove them - not required.
Many thanks for your progress so far. Speak to you later.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9414,'Thu May 20 12:55:01 1999','Re: Re: Status',3,9413,'
Frank/Myles,
>In Full, Supplier Country is still incorrect
I need Myles\' help here.
>and moneys should have
>two decimal places after the point.
Myles: souldn\'t this happen automatically, as they are currencies?
>In Abbreviated, Re-sort returns an error.
See below.
>> Changed the screen shown when orders are added.
>> Changed the colour of an \'active\' shipping details input form.
>Hmmm... don\'t like that. It doesn\'t look intentional. Looks more like
>a bgcolor mistake. Best leave it the way it was unless you can think
>of a more striking colour that will work.
Striking colours are your dept. ;-)
I think we need to make some distinction between the
\'current\' and previous shipping details, or some words.
>In View/Amend, the \'Add to This\' button doesn\'t do anything, and when
>you change a Remark, it Replaces it, rather than Apends to the
>original.
yep, had forgotten about this, we don\'t currently have an append only data type,
but we should be able to add it (thoughts Myles/Tim?)
Below you say \'remove them\', I am assuming that you mean
continue not to print them on the reports.
I think that the notes get emailed, but not printed?
Othewise what are they for?
(We could just get rid of them all together).
>> I am not happy with teh navigation, it is easy to get stuck,
>> without getting back to where you want, and \'back\' gives
>> you a duplicate record error.
>I have created a button table (attached)
it wasn\'t
>which can be used instead of
>the back button, although I think we should keep the back button (new
>one) as well - give them the option. I also would like those buttons
>to replace the options we have on all pages - hence two button tables
>in my attachment: one for the top of the page, one for the bottom.
>Obviously the Administration button is for PFE Login only.
>>
>> Do you mind that I have not put ETA/ETD on the selection form?
>Please elaborate
In your original skeleton you had ETA/ETD ranges, but these are stored against the shipping_detail
not the purchase_order and so would be much more difficult to implement.
>> Should the order-by field be on the selection form? (rather than the resort button?)
>Please elaborate
On your original skeleton you had re-sort on the brief report but not on the full report.
It would be easier/more sense to have ONE order-by drop down on the selection form.
>> Do you still want \'full report for this item\' on brief report?
>Yes please
Will do.
>> Does it matter that notes are not printed on the reports?
>No, remove them - not required.
yours
timP
PS user authorisation is in place now.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9415,'Thu May 20 13:56:41 1999','Re: Re: Re: Status',3,9414,'
> Frank/Myles,
>
> >In Full, Supplier Country is still incorrect
> I need Myles\' help here.
OK
> >> Changed the screen shown when orders are added.
> >> Changed the colour of an \'active\' shipping details input form.
>
> >Hmmm... don\'t like that. It doesn\'t look intentional. Looks more like
> >a bgcolor mistake. Best leave it the way it was unless you can think
> >of a more striking colour that will work.
>
> Striking colours are your dept. ;-)
Rather than get bogged down in this, (I\'m buggered for time) leave it
all the same uniform grey. If the client wants a distinction we\'ll do
it then.
> I think we need to make some distinction between the
> \'current\' and previous shipping details, or some words.
I agree, but see above.
> >In View/Amend, the \'Add to This\' button doesn\'t do anything, and when
> >you change a Remark, it Replaces it, rather than Apends to the
> >original.
> yep, had forgotten about this, we don\'t currently have an append only data type,
> but we should be able to add it (thoughts Myles/Tim?)
> >> Does it matter that notes are not printed on the reports?
> >No, remove them - not required.
> you say \'remove them\', I am assuming that you mean
> continue not to print them on the reports.
Yep, exactly.
> I think that the notes get emailed, but not printed?
Yep, you got it.
> Othewise what are they for?
> (We could just get rid of them all together).
No no no no no you don\'t. ;-)
> >I have created a button table (attached)
> it wasn\'t
You have it now.
> >> Do you mind that I have not put ETA/ETD on the selection form?
No, not at all.
> On your original skeleton you had re-sort on the brief report but not on the full report.
> It would be easier/more sense to have ONE order-by drop down on the selection form.
Yes, sounds very logical to me. Do it
> PS user authorisation is in place now.
Ooh eeer, I\'ll try it out when I have a mo.
Cheers for now.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9416,'Thu May 20 16:11:42 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Status',3,9415,'
Hi Frank,
>> >In Full, Supplier Country is still incorrect
>> I need Myles\' help here.
>OK
Done
>> >> Changed the screen shown when orders are added.
Comments?
>> >> Changed the colour of an \'active\' shipping details input form.
>>
>> >Hmmm... don\'t like that. It doesn\'t look intentional. Looks more like
>> >a bgcolor mistake. Best leave it the way it was unless you can think
>> >of a more striking colour that will work.
>> Striking colours are your dept. ;-)
>Rather than get bogged down in this, (I\'m buggered for time) leave it
>all the same uniform grey. If the client wants a distinction we\'ll do
>it then.
Done.
>> >In View/Amend, the \'Add to This\' button doesn\'t do anything, and when
>> >you change a Remark, it Replaces it, rather than Apends to the
>> >original.
>> yep, had forgotten about this, we don\'t currently have an append only data type,
>> but we should be able to add it (thoughts Myles/Tim?)
More to say on this.....
>> On your original skeleton you had re-sort on the brief report but not on the full report.
>> It would be easier/more sense to have ONE order-by drop down on the selection form.
>Yes, sounds very logical to me. Do it
To do next.
yours
tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9417,'Thu May 20 16:14:43 1999','Navigation',3,0,'
Frank/Myles,
I have added a new navigation table and the buttons.
We need a button called home_but.gif
At the moment we do not have cookies set,
so when the user is returned to login it fails,
but the idea is that when the cookie is set then the
user will be taken back to where they first entered.
(Frank - \'home\' might be confusing, maybe \'PFETrack Entrance Lobby\' or some such)
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9418,'Thu May 20 16:24:57 1999','Append datatype',3,0,'
Frank,
As I understand your requirements for the Note field
it should be an append-only field.
This is an interesting idea so am broadening the discussion.
Append-only is not a primitive datatype in any database I know,
though VMS had an append-only file type I don\'t think Unix/DoS do.
One way to achieve the functionality would be to have an
array of notes, which you can only add new notes to.
This would mean a change to the database structure,
which I am not keen to do.
So unless someone can think of a more general use for this data-type
I would wish to leave the notes as they are.
yours
timp
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9419,'Thu May 20 17:11:34 1999','Re: Append datatype',2,9418,'
Tim,
I don\'t think we need a new datatype. If you want notes typed in
on any screen to be added to notes then do that at the application
level (i.e. in the handler).
Myles
>Frank,
>
>As I understand your requirements for the Note field
>it should be an append-only field.
>This is an interesting idea so am broadening the discussion.
>Append-only is not a primitive datatype in any database I know,
>though VMS had an append-only file type I don\'t think Unix/DoS do.
>One way to achieve the functionality would be to have an
>array of notes, which you can only add new notes to.
>This would mean a change to the database structure,
>which I am not keen to do.
>So unless someone can think of a more general use for this data-type
>I would wish to leave the notes as they are.
>yours
>timp
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9420,'Thu May 20 17:12:44 1999','Re: Navigation',2,9417,'
>Frank/Myles,
>I have added a new navigation table and the buttons.
>We need a button called home_but.gif
>At the moment we do not have cookies set,
>so when the user is returned to login it fails,
>but the idea is that when the cookie is set then the
>user will be taken back to where they first entered.
Don\'t use cookies, use Sessions (from servlets) instead.
To get a nice interface which works just like cookies except
the servlet keeps the state in case the user doesn\'t have
cookies.
Myles
>(Frank - \'home\' might be confusing, maybe \'PFETrack Entrance Lobby\' or some such)
>yours
>TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9421,'Thu May 20 21:10:52 1999','Re: Re: Re: Status',1,9414,'
>
>>In View/Amend, the \'Add to This\' button doesn\'t do anything, and when
>>you change a Remark, it Replaces it, rather than Apends to the
>>original.
>yep, had forgotten about this, we don\'t currently have an append only data type,
>but we should be able to add it (thoughts Myles/Tim?)
>Below you say \'remove them\', I am assuming that you mean
>continue not to print them on the reports.
not sure i fully understand, but my prefered option if you are adding text to a textarea that already contains data, is to populate the textarea with the existing text and allow the user to amend and add text.
or do i completely misunderstand?
timj
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9422,'Thu May 20 21:58:13 1999','Re: Append datatype',1,9418,'
righty, i begin to understand, the point is that you are not allowed to edit data already in the database (hence "append only")
why don\'t you just do this in the handler - store the original note in a hidden field on the form, and append whatever is entered to it before you write()
this way, you still get ull access to the field in the dbAdmin stuff.
timj
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9423,'Fri May 21 1:47:28 1999','Re: Re: Navigation',102,9420,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> Hi Frank,
Hi Tim,
First my responses to your latest, and then some observations.
> >> >> Changed the screen shown when orders are added.
> Comments?
Didn\'t see any changes. Remind me...
> >> >In View/Amend, the \'Add to This\' button doesn\'t do anything, and when
> >> >you change a Remark, it Replaces it, rather than Apends to the
> >> >original.
> More to say on this.....
Am following the discussion with interest :)
> >> On your original skeleton you had re-sort on the brief report but not on the full report.
> >> It would be easier/more sense to have ONE order-by drop down on the selection form.
> >Yes, sounds very logical to me. Do it
> To do next.
Keep me posted
> I have added a new navigation table and the buttons.
> We need a button called home_but.gif
See attached. I have also included an amended version of a button you already have (letter spacing problems). You will also see that I have added new buttons and a table for the top of the Add/Amend screen. Please replace the existing text with this table.
Please ensure you have for the new \'back\' button.
> As I understand your requirements for the Note field
> it should be an append-only field.
> So unless someone can think of a more general use for this data-type
> I would wish to leave the notes as they are.
As I see it, it is an information-only field. People will have the original remarks because they will have been mailed to them. Hence leave as is.
Observations
============
When Add Order goes to confirmation screen, you still have a \'1.\' in front of the \'Add an Order\' button.
Can you change the text of the \'Re-Sort\' button to \'Change Sort Order\'. Remember, we\'re dealing with idiots here (oops, I meant to say \'customers\') :)
Clicking \'Re-Sort\' produces an error.
Why does \'Add Supplier\' have a username and password field?
The drop-down list of Add/Amend Order. Can it be in alphanumeric
order please. At the moment, it\'s not a problem, but if there are 100
orders on the system we\'re talking chaos unless there\'s an order to
it!
When I select Cancel Order, it takes me to a confirmation screen
which allows me, in Add/Amend, to select ONLY THE ORDER I HAVE JUST
CANCELLED! I then select it, to Amend, and there it is. Hmm...
I selected Add/Amend order XYZ123. I scrolled down to the bottom and
clicked \'Click Here\' and I got this page in HTML:
"<META HTTP-EQUIV="Refresh" CONTENT="1;
URL=/webmacro/PFEOrders?userid=2&key=organisation&purchase_order_id=23
&wmtemplate=PFETrack/templates/imp_amend_order.wm">
"
Whilst in \'Reports\', I clicked your Home button and got "Login
incorrect
Sorry, your username () or password () is incorrect."
Don\'t bust a gut. See ya!
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9424,'Fri May 21 1:49:26 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Status',3,9421,'
> Reply to this message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/PFE/messages/83.shtml
>
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Status
> From: TimJ (timj@hoop.co.uk) (194.112.47.31)
>
> >
> >>In View/Amend, the \'Add to This\' button doesn\'t do anything, and when
> >>you change a Remark, it Replaces it, rather than Apends to the
> >>original.
>
> >yep, had forgotten about this, we don\'t currently have an append only data type,
> >but we should be able to add it (thoughts Myles/Tim?)
> >Below you say \'remove them\', I am assuming that you mean
> >continue not to print them on the reports.
>
> not sure i fully understand, but my prefered option if you are adding text to a textarea that already contains data, is to populate the textarea with the existing text and allow the user to amend and add text.
Yup, that\'s exactly right.
Also, I\'m attaching the zip file I forgot last time!
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9425,'Fri May 21 12:04:41 1999','Re: Re: Re: Navigation',3,9423,'
>> >> >> Changed the screen shown when orders are added.
>> Comments?
>Didn\'t see any changes. Remind me...
Sorry when shipping details are changed, which was broken, now mended.
>> >> On your original skeleton you had re-sort on the brief report but not on the full report.
>> >> It would be easier/more sense to have ONE order-by drop down on the selection form.
>> >Yes, sounds very logical to me. Do it
Done
>> I have added a new navigation table and the buttons.
>> We need a button called home_but.gif
>See attached. I have also included an amended version of a button you already have (letter spacing problems). You will also see that I have added new buttons and a table for the top of the Add/Amend screen. Please replace the existing text with this table.
>Please ensure you have for the new \'back\' button.
Done
>> As I understand your requirements for the Note field
>> it should be an append-only field.
>> So unless someone can think of a more general use for this data-type
>> I would wish to leave the notes as they are.
>As I see it, it is an information-only field. People will have the original remarks because they will have been mailed to them. Hence leave as is.
Done :)
>Observations
>============
>When Add Order goes to confirmation screen, you still have a \'1.\' in front of the \'Add an Order\' button.
Done.
>Can you change the text of the \'Re-Sort\' button to \'Change Sort Order\'. Remember, we\'re dealing with idiots here (oops, I meant to say \'customers\') :)
>Clicking \'Re-Sort\' produces an error.
Removed, as selection is now on report selection screen.
>Why does \'Add Supplier\' have a username and password field?
Will dummy out.
>The drop-down list of Add/Amend Order. Can it be in alphanumeric
>order please. At the moment, it\'s not a problem, but if there are 100
>orders on the system we\'re talking chaos unless there\'s an order to
>it!
It is in aplpha-numeric order, but some refs are uppercase and some lower.
We could force them all to be uppercase. (Myles: How?)
>When I select Cancel Order, it takes me to a confirmation screen
>which allows me, in Add/Amend, to select ONLY THE ORDER I HAVE JUST
>CANCELLED! I then select it, to Amend, and there it is. Hmm...
The whole status/Cancelled thing is confusing.
What is meant to happen when an order is \'Cancelled\'?
Cancelled is an \'order status\' so the \'Cancel Order\' does nothing at the moment.
They can amend the status to cancelled.
I can\'t see how to do it the way you want :(
>I selected Add/Amend order XYZ123. I scrolled down to the bottom and
>clicked \'Click Here\' and I got this page in HTML:
[snip refresh]
It was broken, now mended.
>Whilst in \'Reports\', I clicked your Home button and got "Login
>incorrect
>Sorry, your username () or password () is incorrect."
That is going to be mad to work by Myles, so it will that then to their
entry screen if their session hasn\'t expired, otherwise they have to log in again.
See ya
tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9426,'Fri May 21 19:22:15 1999','Meeting with client, 21/05/99',102,0,'
I\'ve had a meeting with the client today where they had the
first opportunity to view PFETrack.
First impressions were very favourable (pats on the back all
round, chaps).
I have a list of amendments and comments from them which
they require. Since some of these will require illustration,
I shall create a document set at www.airflow.net and inform
you when this is available for viewing. It is quite compre-
hensive, so expect to see it no earlier than Saturday
lunchtime/evening.
The client is looking forward to our meeting on the 27th
when, amongst other things, he is aiming to discuss a new
project, a comprehensive web-based contact and marketing
management tool which I have discussed with you briefly
recently.
In conclusion, the client has faith in our abilities to
supply the product that Acan (the company who developed
AcanGold) could not do (at, I suspect, a considerably
reduced budget). He also believes PFETrack will be a
significant marketing tool for selling his company\'s
services.
:)
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9427,'Sat May 22 1:24:35 1999','Re: Meeting with client, 21/05/99',102,9426,'
>I have a list of amendments and comments from them which
>they require. Since some of these will require illustration,
>I shall create a document set at www.airflow.net and inform
>you when this is available for viewing. It is quite compre-
>hensive, so expect to see it no earlier than Saturday
>lunchtime/evening.
I\'ve been a busy boy. You can view the progress report at
http://www.pfeweb.com/progress.
I\'ll leave you to it then and get my head down.
TTFN
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9428,'Mon May 24 16:21:45 1999','Trivial/NoCharge Changes',3,0,'
The following are either in the spec or so simple as to be
done without further bother.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9429,'Mon May 24 16:23:09 1999','Site wide',3,9428,'
these changes are trivial and site wide
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9430,'Mon May 24 16:24:03 1999','Trivial Changes to Add Order',3,9428,'
>The following are either in the spec or so simple as to be
>done without further bother.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9431,'Mon May 24 16:24:58 1999','Remarks field not mandatory',3,9430,'
Supprised that it was, as it isn\'t now.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9432,'Mon May 24 16:26:12 1999','Add sea/air to mode of transport - done',3,9430,'
Have added to deafults, change will come into effect next time db is cleared down.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9433,'Mon May 24 16:27:30 1999','Remove cancel order line - done',3,9430,'
Done, but now #cancel and #status point to same place.
Probably need to remove cancell order button.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9434,'Mon May 24 16:28:43 1999','Remove deleted from status - done',3,9430,'
Will take effect next time db is cleared down.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9435,'Mon May 24 16:30:22 1999','Trivial Changes to Add Supplier',3,9428,'
>The following are either in the spec or so simple as to be
>done without further bother.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9436,'Mon May 24 16:32:24 1999','Change post code to post/zip code - done',3,9435,'
Changed text in template.
Nmae in db is still post_code.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9437,'Mon May 24 16:33:35 1999','Change Address 4 to City - done',3,9435,'
Changed in template, still address4 in db.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9438,'Mon May 24 16:34:17 1999','Delete Address3 - not done',3,9435,'
Didn\'t feel that 2 lines of address were sufficient.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9439,'Mon May 24 16:44:59 1999','Make Address1, Address4, contact_name, tel fax mandatory - not done',3,9435,'
Are you sure you want all that mandatory?
What about email, if they don\'t have an email then the system won\'t work.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9440,'Mon May 24 16:45:39 1999','Remove telex - done',3,9435,'
Only removed from template.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9441,'Mon May 24 16:48:19 1999','Make all dropdown fields uppercase.',3,9429,'
Myles,
how trivial is this?
We need to identify all uppercase only fields:
purchase_order
purchase_order_line
short_name
Any others?
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9442,'Mon May 24 16:50:38 1999','Changes to Login',3,9428,'
>The following are either in the spec or so simple as to be
>done without further bother.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9443,'Mon May 24 16:52:28 1999','Make view/amend clickable - done',3,9442,'
How do I get the alt to work?
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9444,'Mon May 24 16:53:34 1999','Trivial Changes to Amend',3,9428,'
>The following are either in the spec or so simple as to be
>done without further bother.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9445,'Mon May 24 16:55:04 1999','Remove [add to this] - done',3,9444,'
As per previous discussion notes is now a normal field.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9446,'Mon May 24 16:57:11 1999','Remove cancel and complete buttons - done',3,9444,'
Removed them and anchors they jumped to.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9447,'Mon May 24 17:01:50 1999','Remove Docs Recieved field - done',3,9444,'
Removed from template only.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9448,'Mon May 24 17:04:16 1999','Remove first clearance docs recieved - done',3,9444,'
This was an error. Sorted.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9449,'Mon May 24 17:08:26 1999','Non- Trivial Changes - Phase Two ',3,0,'
These changes are not in the FS.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9450,'Mon May 24 17:10:16 1999','Change width of QTY required - no can do',3,9449,'
The width of the input field is determined by the type of the data.
The width of an integer input box is fixed.
(Tim/Myles correct me if wrong).
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9451,'Mon May 24 17:12:44 1999','Add Product Type Dropdown',3,9449,'
What are some example product types?
To add a dropdown will mean that either
all users will need a new button of add product type or
only PFE can add product types.
What is a Product Type ?
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9452,'Mon May 24 17:14:28 1999','Point 3 - Data remains the same after change ?',3,9449,'
"If a user adds a supplier or, as in 2 above, a product type, the details already entered should remain in
the boxes when the new item has been added to the list. Perhaps a cookie or something similar. "
This is not just non-trivial but not possible.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9453,'Mon May 24 17:18:55 1999','Re: Make all dropdown fields uppercase.',2,9441,'
>Myles,
>how trivial is this?
It\'s something we\'ve had the requirement for before.
We probably want a new DataDictionary type (UpperCaseText
or something, like Textarea) or have an extra DD entry,
"UpperCase" like Mandatory. I favour the latter, but there
are issues.
In either case you\'ll need to alter setFromForm in DDRecord.
You\'ll then have to add the Validation code (probably need a
new ValidationProblem type) and update the javascript validation
(you can either add a new utility validation function in the
.js file or generate one from within HTMLUtil). You\'ll probably
need to change DDField too.
Otherwise we can hack it in the handlers. Call toUpperCase() on
the strings you get from the form. Remember to make all comparisons
case insensitive when looking at form data.
Myles
>We need to identify all uppercase only fields:
>purchase_order
>purchase_order_line
This is a number, surely?
>short_name
>Any others?
>yours
>timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9454,'Mon May 24 17:19:04 1999','The drop-down supplier list must be relative to the user logged in - no can do',3,9449,'
We can allow agents only to see orders relevant to them, but
importers must be able to see all suppliers on the system
or we need to do some radical rethink, which I cannot think of.
It would be a big change to add a new table of suppliers used by importers.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9455,'Mon May 24 17:23:20 1999','IE 4 behaviour - Myles',3,9444,'
"The client was viewing the demo in IE4 and instead of [Tab]ing betwen fields, he hit [Return] and got
an IE4 scripting error message. Don\'t know what it is, but see if you can replicate it.Perhaps we need
to add a line that says "do not hit enter - use the button at the foot of the form"? "
Myles can you investigate please.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9456,'Mon May 24 17:33:02 1999','User object/login system',2,0,'
I have put up a doc at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/PFE/user.html
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9457,'Mon May 24 17:40:36 1999','Re: Make view/amend clickable - done',2,9443,'
>How do I get the alt to work?
i.e. use name rather than alt
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9458,'Mon May 24 17:43:04 1999','Re: Change width of QTY required - no can do',2,9450,'
>The width of the input field is determined by the type of the data.
>The width of an integer input box is fixed.
>(Tim/Myles correct me if wrong).
If it\'s not what you want make the box by hand using
$field.DisplayValue and $field.MetaData.FieldName
in the template
Myles
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9459,'Mon May 24 17:44:57 1999','Re: IE 4 behaviour - Myles',2,9455,'
>
> "The client was viewing the demo in IE4 and instead of [Tab]ing betwen fields, he hit [Return] and got
> an IE4 scripting error message. Don\'t know what it is, but see if you can replicate it.Perhaps we need
> to add a line that says "do not hit enter - use the button at the foot of the form"? "
>Myles can you investigate please.
No - I haven\'t got IE4.
Myles
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9460,'Mon May 24 18:16:37 1999','Add notes field to shipping_details',3,9449,'
Not difficult, in fact a field own_notes is in db,
but still some work and not in FS.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9461,'Mon May 24 18:20:19 1999','Remove Container Seal No. - done',3,9444,'
Removed from template only.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9462,'Mon May 24 18:41:53 1999','Container Numbers',3,9449,'
Frank,
You want to add three container number fields.
I am reluctant to do it this way. There is something
not quite right here.
Previously we had two container numbers and two seals, which was the same as Acan.
We then cut down to one container and one seal per shipping_detail for
beauty/simplicity.
Now we are putting in an arbitary limit of three because
some shipments can span numerous containers.
If we are hoping to expand the system into a full-blown
shipping tracking system, with possible sales to other
members of the shipping community we are going to need to
store tables for ships, sailings and containers.
This could then be used to track containers, rather than goods.
So I would like to know how often a single part shipment
spans more than one container.
When this does happen I would suggest that each one is a separate part shipment.
"If a shipment doesn\'t fit in a single container then a separate shipping_detail record must be raised"
sounds like a fair data input rule.
Whew !!!
Tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9463,'Mon May 24 18:43:26 1999','Remove Place of Unpack - done',3,9444,'
Removed in template only.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9464,'Mon May 24 18:45:08 1999','Moved Date of Delivery below Date of Unpacking - done',3,9444,'
Modified template.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9465,'Mon May 24 18:46:58 1999','Removed Duty Paid and VAT Paid - done',3,9444,'
Removed in template only.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9466,'Mon May 24 19:08:41 1999','Quantity Shipped update check .. more thought needed',3,9449,'
Amend Order (imp_amend_order.wm)
Update Shipping details (PFEUpdateShippingDetails.java)
The number shipped on the particular shipping_details form
Plus all the other part-shipments must be compared to the
number required.
If they are greater than number required
then user must confirm that this is a delibate over-shippment (recorded in db?)
If less than required they can either go back or a new record will be created.
We have to think more carefully about \'over_shipped\' flags in the db,
particularly as they can get out of step with the
actual db contents, if someone changes the number required for example.
Some of these checks could be done in javascript.
More thought needed....
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9467,'Mon May 24 19:10:30 1999','Copy new shipping_details records from previous one. ',3,9444,'
This is easy to do in the code,
and in fact was done like this earlier.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9468,'Mon May 24 19:12:07 1999','Trivial Changes to Reports',3,9428,'
>The following are either in the spec or so simple as to be
>done without further bother.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9469,'Mon May 24 19:13:14 1999','The default Report should be Abbreviated - Done',3,9468,'
changed in template.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9470,'Mon May 24 19:13:52 1999','Remove Terms of Sale from the selection drop-down - done',3,9468,'
changed in template
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9471,'Mon May 24 19:17:32 1999','Problems',3,0,'
Hi Frank,
As you have probably noticed by now,
we really need a bug tracking system :)
I have tried to class your enhancements into
trivial and chargeable.
Please use the message boards for this stage of the project,
as we are using an imperfect tool for a difficult task.
This message is to establish a thread to discuss requests that are
not easily done at all.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9472,'Mon May 24 19:22:14 1999','Change Overseas Agents Ref to House B.O.L. No. ',3,9471,'
The Overseas Agents ref is held against the purchase order,
and so can be used at this point, the house_BOL is
against the shipping_detail and so cannot easily be used to
search at this point.
The same problem applies to searching by container.
I would like to know what a House BOL is (Bill of Lading),
who creates it when?
Is it just another name for overseas_agents_ref?
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9473,'Mon May 24 19:24:47 1999','SelectReport:Include Container No. in drop-down ',3,9449,'
Myles,
is this trivial?
tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9474,'Mon May 24 19:30:31 1999','Re: Re: IE 4 behaviour - Myles',3,9459,'
Tim
Can you have a look.
Tim
>>
>> "The client was viewing the demo in IE4 and instead of [Tab]ing betwen fields, he hit [Return] and got
>> an IE4 scripting error message. Don\'t know what it is, but see if you can replicate it.Perhaps we need
>> to add a line that says "do not hit enter - use the button at the foot of the form"? "
>>Myles can you investigate please.
>No - I haven\'t got IE4.
>Myles
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9475,'Mon May 24 19:36:48 1999','Re: Re: Make view/amend clickable - done',3,9457,'
>>How do I get the alt to work?
>
>i.e. use name rather than alt
Thanks
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9476,'Mon May 24 19:46:27 1999','Login: Purchase_order not a dropdown.',3,9449,'
This is a change which will require
modification to:
PFELogin
PFEUpdateOrder
Importer.wm
imp_added_order.wm
The error page is new.
The handler will need to be changed to look for the
order and reject if not found.
I thought that this was one of the unique selling points of the system.
Once you are in you can see your orders,
If this is an additional security feature then lets use better security,
as it feels wrong to me.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9477,'Mon May 24 19:54:44 1999','Way ahead - 20:00 24/05/99',3,0,'
All,
All the requests for change have been categorised.
Non-contentious issues have all been done except copying new shipping_details.
User handling is working again, but needs to redirect to login.html when
session times out.
Only webmacro default error handling is in place.
Frank and I are meeting with client on Thursday 2.00pm (27/05/99).
I think all we can aim to do by then is to tidy current
code and to prepare the phase two document.
There are a number of ways of doing it, most of which have
cost implications.
Got to go now before I drop.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9478,'Tue May 25 0:46:40 1999','Re: Make Address1, Address4, contact_name, tel fax mandatory - not done',102,9439,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
Apologies for not replying to all these messages on the board like
you told me to do. I at least made an attempt to visist it and
just didn\'t have the time to wade through hundreds of messages
looking for the ones corresponding to those in my In-Tray. I\'ve got
a gagging headache, mountains of work to do, clients giving me grief
and I just want to get these questions answered.
>Are you sure you want all that mandatory?
>What about email, if they don\'t have an email then the system won\'t work.
Wrong. This is a SUPPLIER\'S list. Suppliers have NO access to the
system, suppliers have no E-MAILS sent to them. If a user doesn\'t have
a supplier\'s e-mail address, how is he supposed to add the supplier to
the list? And if he can\'t add te supplier to the list, he can\'t
add a new order.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9479,'Tue May 25 0:48:06 1999','Re: Add Product Type Dropdown',102,9451,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
>
> What are some example product types?
Sweatshirts
Childrens\' T-shirts
Umbrellas
Tennis racquets
> To add a dropdown will mean that either
> all users will need a new button of add product type or
> only PFE can add product types.
All users.
>
> What is a Product Type ?
A simple drop-down that allows users to select commonly used items.
Many of the goods shipped by PFE from the far east are repeat
bulk orders. You\'ll notice that AcanGold had this feature and the
client wants it carried over to PFETrack.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9480,'Tue May 25 0:49:11 1999','Re: Make view/amend clickable - done',102,9443,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> How do I get the alt to work?
AFAIK you can\'t.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9481,'Tue May 25 0:50:00 1999','Re: Point 3 - Data remains the same after change ?',3,9452,'
> "If a user adds a supplier or, as in 2 above, a product type, the details already entered should remain in
> the boxes when the new item has been added to the list. Perhaps a cookie or something similar. "
>
> This is not just non-trivial but not possible.
Take a look at Shop@ssistant (included in Global power, the new
project I need a quote for). Test it out and you\'ll be totally amazed
then that when a user inputs his personal details into up to 20 input
boxes and then decides to switch from the Cashier page back to
\'Continue Shopping\', when he returns to the Cashier page, all the
details he typed in previously are remembered and already inside the
text entry boxes. Cookies. Quod erat demonstrandum.
It is NOT trivial, but it IS important, and, just as important, it is
POSSIBLE. I have the complete Shop@ssistant code if somebody wants to
look at it or you can simply look at www.globalpower.co.uk, click on
Power Tools/Cordless/Angle Drills to see shop@ssistant at work.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9482,'Tue May 25 0:50:46 1999','Re: Change width of QTY required - no can do',3,9450,'
> The width of the input field is determined by the type of the data.
> The width of an integer input box is fixed.
Not on any sites I\'ve ever visited, it isn\'t. Please advise.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9483,'Tue May 25 0:51:35 1999','Re: The drop-down supplier list must be relative to the user logged in - no can do',3,9454,'
> We can allow agents only to see orders relevant to them, but
> importers must be able to see all suppliers on the system
> or we need to do some radical rethink, which I cannot think of.
>
> It would be a big change to add a new table of suppliers used by importers.
This was in the Functional Spec that the client signed off, if you
recall. We have discussed this before, Tim, and I know it\'s a big
change, which is why I didn\'t make it an issue with you when you
argued your point originally. However, the client spotted this
omission straight away, and he specifically does not want Agents and
Importers seeing suppliers not relevent to themselves.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9484,'Tue May 25 0:53:30 1999','Re: Container Numbers',102,9462,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> Frank,
>
> You want to add three container number fields.
> I am reluctant to do it this way. There is something
> not quite right here.
>
> Previously we had two container numbers and two seals, which was the same as Acan.
> We then cut down to one container and one seal per shipping_detail for
> beauty/simplicity.
>
> Now we are putting in an arbitary limit of three because
> some shipments can span numerous containers.
>
> If we are hoping to expand the system into a full-blown
> shipping tracking system, with possible sales to other
> members of the shipping community we are going to need to
> store tables for ships, sailings and containers.
>
> This could then be used to track containers, rather than goods.
>
> So I would like to know how often a single part shipment
> spans more than one container.
>
> When this does happen I would suggest that each one is a separate part shipment.
>
> "If a shipment doesn\'t fit in a single container then a separate shipping_detail record must be raised"
> sounds like a fair data input rule.
Tim,
You have to see this from the client\'s point of view. He wants to
make this as user-friendly as possible, therefore the less boring
repetition, the better for him, his Importers and his Agents.
And us.
There\'s only one question. Can this be done? The client wants it. It\'s
not in the FS, so charge him.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9485,'Tue May 25 1:24:49 1999','Re: Problems - Home Agent Ref',3,9471,'
The Home Agent\'s Ref is on the shipping_details part of the form
but is in the purchase order table.
It cannot currently be modified.
Is this the House Bill of Lading?
What will it contain?
Should there be one for ever shipping_detail or one for every purchase order?
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9486,'Tue May 25 1:26:52 1999','Duplicate shipping_details - done',3,9477,'
>Non-contentious issues have all been done except copying new shipping_details.
Done
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9487,'Tue May 25 1:27:58 1999','DONE',3,9467,'
>This is easy to do in the code,
>and in fact was done like this earlier.
Done,
Uncomment to reverse.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9488,'Tue May 25 1:29:36 1999','Re: Remarks field not mandatory - DONE',3,9431,'
>Supprised that it was, as it isn\'t now.
DONE
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9489,'Tue May 25 1:33:22 1999','Re: Re: Make Address1, Address4, contact_name, tel fax mandatory - not done',3,9478,'
>Apologies for not replying to all these messages on the board like
>you told me to do. I at least made an attempt to visist it and
>just didn\'t have the time to wade through hundreds of messages
>looking for the ones corresponding to those in my In-Tray. I\'ve got
>a gagging headache, mountains of work to do, clients giving me grief
>and I just want to get these questions answered.
Sorry you have got a headache.
Your document was a great help in establishing what needs to be done.
I am quite happy to post your messages for you, as the board then
becomes the tool I use to see the big picture.
>>Are you sure you want all that mandatory?
>>What about email, if they don\'t have an email then the system won\'t work.
>Wrong. This is a SUPPLIER\'S list. Suppliers have NO access to the
>system, suppliers have no E-MAILS sent to them. If a user doesn\'t have
>a supplier\'s e-mail address, how is he supposed to add the supplier to
>the list? And if he can\'t add te supplier to the list, he can\'t
>add a new order.
With you, message recieved and understood.
Tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9490,'Tue May 25 1:58:29 1999','increase the width of the QTY required so a minimum of 10 characters are visible - done',3,9430,'
Also done on Amend Order.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9491,'Tue May 25 2:01:23 1999','Widths entered manually - done',3,9458,'
>>The width of the input field is determined by the type of the data.
>>The width of an integer input box is fixed.
>>(Tim/Myles correct me if wrong).
>If it\'s not what you want make the box by hand using
>$field.DisplayValue and $field.MetaData.FieldName
>in the template
>Myles
Thanks Myles
input type=text name=$order_line.purchase_order_line.quantity_required.MetaData.FieldName size="10" value="$order_line.purchase_order_line.quantity_required.DisplayValue"
does the trick.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9492,'Tue May 25 3:10:10 1999','Re: User object/login system ',3,9456,'
All,
>I have put up a doc at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/PFE/user.html
I have incorporated it in the Architecture Document.
The system should now be invoked from
http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/PFELogin
rather than
http://www.paneris.org/PFETrack/login.html which I hated.
If the session isn\'t set or has expired, or the server has been restarted,
then the user is taken to a plain old login, but a template rather than .html,
Otherwise the userid and user_type are retrieved from the session,
So no need to query the db.
Myles, Should we be using dbCache here?
night
Tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9493,'Tue May 25 3:32:21 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Navigation - DONE',3,9425,'
>>Why does \'Add Supplier\' have a username and password field?
>Will dummy out.
Done.
>>The drop-down list of Add/Amend Order. Can it be in alphanumeric
>>order please. At the moment, it\'s not a problem, but if there are 100
>>orders on the system we\'re talking chaos unless there\'s an order to
>>it!
>It is in aplpha-numeric order, but some refs are uppercase and some lower.
>We could force them all to be uppercase. (Myles: How?)
See new thread.
>>Whilst in \'Reports\', I clicked your Home button and got "Login
>>incorrect
>>Sorry, your username () or password () is incorrect."
>That is going to be mad to work by Myles, so it will that then to their
>entry screen if their session hasn\'t expired, otherwise they have to log in again.
Now all working.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9494,'Tue May 25 11:12:34 1999','Re: Widths entered manually - done',2,9491,'
>>>The width of the input field is determined by the type of the data.
>>>The width of an integer input box is fixed.
>>>(Tim/Myles correct me if wrong).
>>If it\'s not what you want make the box by hand using
>>$field.DisplayValue and $field.MetaData.FieldName
>>in the template
>>Myles
>Thanks Myles
> input type=text name=$order_line.purchase_order_line.quantity_required.MetaData.FieldName size="10" value="$order_line.purchase_order_line.quantity_required.DisplayValue"
>does the trick.
as does
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9495,'Tue May 25 11:16:37 1999','Re: Re: User object/login system ',2,9492,'
>All,
>>I have put up a doc at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/PFE/user.html
>I have incorporated it in the Architecture Document.
>The system should now be invoked from
>http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/PFELogin
>rather than
>http://www.paneris.org/PFETrack/login.html which I hated.
>If the session isn\'t set or has expired, or the server has been restarted,
>then the user is taken to a plain old login, but a template rather than .html,
>Otherwise the userid and user_type are retrieved from the session,
>So no need to query the db.
>Myles, Should we be using dbCache here?
I don\'t understand what you mean.
Myles
>night
>Tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9496,'Tue May 25 11:25:33 1999','Datacache was Re: Re: Re: User object/login system ',3,9495,'
>>If the session isn\'t set or has expired, or the server has been restarted,
>>then the user is taken to a plain old login, but a template rather than .html,
>>Otherwise the userid and user_type are retrieved from the session,
>>So no need to query the db.
>>Myles, Should we be using dbCache here?
>I don\'t understand what you mean.
Turns out nor do I.
Every handler has the following line in it:
private DataCache dataCache = DataCache.getInstance();
But is never used again.
Shouldn\'t we be using them?
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9497,'Tue May 25 11:29:10 1999','Error Handling',3,0,'
Myles, Tim,
It doesn\'t look as though there is an example yet of non-default error handling.
Can you point me in the right direction.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9498,'Tue May 25 11:33:46 1999','Re: Datacache was Re: Re: Re: User object/login system ',2,9496,'
>
>>>If the session isn\'t set or has expired, or the server has been restarted,
>>>then the user is taken to a plain old login, but a template rather than .html,
>>>Otherwise the userid and user_type are retrieved from the session,
>>>So no need to query the db.
>>>Myles, Should we be using dbCache here?
>>I don\'t understand what you mean.
>Turns out nor do I.
>Every handler has the following line in it:
> private DataCache dataCache = DataCache.getInstance();
>
>But is never used again.
>Shouldn\'t we be using them?
Not if we don\'t need to. Check the dbadmin handlers - this is
where it will have come from. See how it\'s used there. I don\'t
think we need to.
Myles
>yours
>timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9499,'Tue May 25 11:35:55 1999','Re: Error Handling',2,9497,'
>Myles, Tim,
>It doesn\'t look as though there is an example yet of non-default error handling.
What is default error handling even? If you get an error (exception)
you need to look at what caused it:
1) User input - give a nice page explaining why they couldn\'t do
what they wanted and what to change to make it work
2) Bugs - exception should get to WMServlet
3) Other unusual situations - see 2
Myles
>Can you point me in the right direction.
>yours
>timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9500,'Tue May 25 11:46:01 1999','Rollout',3,0,'
Myles/Tim,
What is involved in rolling out a system?
1. Set debug off in all modules
2. Install CVS on Maytech
3. CVS Update Maytech
Is what I hope.
any other problems?
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9501,'Tue May 25 11:53:47 1999','Re: Rollout',2,9500,'
>Myles/Tim,
>What is involved in rolling out a system?
>1. Set debug off in all modules
>2. Install CVS on Maytech
>3. CVS Update Maytech
>Is what I hope.
>any other problems?
There\'s no point in using CVS on Maytech. Copy the
distribution directory over and install it. You\'ll
have to add the handler directory to jserv.properties.
It should then work. Sugar might not, though :-)
You obviously need to set up the database.
Myles
>yours
>timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9502,'Tue May 25 12:14:34 1999','Departures from skeleton/ Functional Spec.',3,0,'
Frank,
There a few thing which we have done in accordance with the skeleton,
which I would like to change so that they are more aligned with the underlieing db.
Currently we have two templates Importer.wm and imp_added_order.wm
which are the same except that the second says where the messages have been sent.
I would like to change it so that a message, possibly only a splash-screen, is shown
saying who has been emailed and then they are returned to Importer.wm.
This saves having to set up the context in two places.
In the functional Spec we only have one input/amend screen,
but we have Add Order and Amend Order.
The screens can remain the same but there is no real point in having two screens,
let alone two handlers.
The functional Spec says :
"There will be a facility to download the database contents into a format readable by Microsoft
Access. "
This is a bit broad brush.
I think it is still needed, but would like to postpone it until the requirement is defined.
(I belive this is separate from users downloading reports in CSV and even different from the batch updating now required)
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9503,'Tue May 25 12:21:49 1999','Re: Re: Re: IE 4 behaviour - Myles',3,9474,'
Myles,
Tim says that required fields such as Remarks are being
validated correctly on IE4 but not on Netscape.
Please check.
TimP
>Tim
>Can you have a look.
>Tim
>>>
>>> "The client was viewing the demo in IE4 and instead of [Tab]ing betwen fields, he hit [Return] and got
>>> an IE4 scripting error message. Don\'t know what it is, but see if you can replicate it.Perhaps we need
>>> to add a line that says "do not hit enter - use the button at the foot of the form"? "
>>>Myles can you investigate please.
>>No - I haven\'t got IE4.
>>Myles
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9504,'Tue May 25 12:51:22 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: IE 4 behaviour - Myles',2,9503,'
>Myles,
>Tim says that required fields such as Remarks are being
>validated correctly on IE4 but not on Netscape.
Which screen? With what input? What is not being validated?
I assume you mean that mandatory fields are being allowed
through if they are blank. But as far as I can see, Remarks
is not mandatory.
More info...
Myles
>Please check.
>TimP
>
>>Tim
>>Can you have a look.
>>Tim
>>>>
>>>> "The client was viewing the demo in IE4 and instead of [Tab]ing betwen fields, he hit [Return] and got
>>>> an IE4 scripting error message. Don\'t know what it is, but see if you can replicate it.Perhaps we need
>>>> to add a line that says "do not hit enter - use the button at the foot of the form"? "
>>>>Myles can you investigate please.
>>>No - I haven\'t got IE4.
>>>Myles
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9505,'Tue May 25 13:18:58 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IE 4 behaviour - Myles',3,9504,'
>>Myles,
>>Tim says that required fields such as Remarks are being
>>validated correctly on IE4 but not on Netscape.
>Which screen? With what input? What is not being validated?
>I assume you mean that mandatory fields are being allowed
>through if they are blank. But as far as I can see, Remarks
>is not mandatory.
>More info...
What more can be said...
Validation is working differently in Netscape and IE4.
This seems to apply to Amend - both shipping_details and Order
and to Add Order.
When I press update on all of them in Netscape4 then the db is updated and all is well,
When Frank/PFE/Tim used IE4 it said Remarks were mandatory and Product Ref was mandatory.
Tim said \'there is an enormous screen of problems\'.
I know no more.
>Myles
>>Please check.
>>TimP
>>
>>>Tim
>>>Can you have a look.
>>>Tim
>>>>>
>>>>> "The client was viewing the demo in IE4 and instead of [Tab]ing betwen fields, he hit [Return] and got
>>>>> an IE4 scripting error message. Don\'t know what it is, but see if you can replicate it.Perhaps we need
>>>>> to add a line that says "do not hit enter - use the button at the foot of the form"? "
>>>>>Myles can you investigate please.
>>>>No - I haven\'t got IE4.
>>>>Myles
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9506,'Tue May 25 15:36:52 1999','DB Changes Required',3,0,'
Listed here.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9507,'Tue May 25 15:37:37 1999','transport_method -> 10',3,9506,'
Increase size from 3 to 10.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9508,'Tue May 25 15:38:21 1999','Notes are not mandatory - check',3,9506,'
Notes are not mandatory - check
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9509,'Tue May 25 17:26:37 1999','Have changed imp_added_order.wm',3,9502,'
>Frank,
>There a few thing which we have done in accordance with the skeleton,
>which I would like to change so that they are more aligned with the underlieing db.
>Currently we have two templates Importer.wm and imp_added_order.wm
>which are the same except that the second says where the messages have been sent.
>I would like to change it so that a message, possibly only a splash-screen, is shown
>saying who has been emailed and then they are returned to Importer.wm.
>This saves having to set up the context in two places.
[Other stuff snipped]
I have also added mailtos.
It currently says that an email will be sent to the supplier,
should this be there, or conditional on whether the email
has been entered or should email be mandatory in add supplier?
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9510,'Tue May 25 17:29:24 1999','Re: Quantity Shipped update check .. DONE',3,9466,'
>Amend Order (imp_amend_order.wm)
>Update Shipping details (PFEUpdateShippingDetails.java)
Done
>The number shipped on the particular shipping_details form
>Plus all the other part-shipments must be compared to the
>number required.
Done
>If they are greater than number required
>then user must confirm that this is a delibate over-shippment (recorded in db?)
>If less than required they can either go back or a new record will be created.
>We have to think more carefully about \'over_shipped\' flags in the db,
>particularly as they can get out of step with the
>actual db contents, if someone changes the number required for example.
The system now works, ie is deliverable and in accordance with FS.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9511,'Tue May 25 19:10:28 1999','Agent Options',3,9502,'
Frank,
In new skeleton we have Agents being able to add orders.
Infact all they can do is view/amend.
This reflects the fact that the funcspec has a single
View/Amend function and the skeleton has
view/amend and Add.
I will remove Add from Agent,
Modify Agent so that he can only update the shipping details and
Modify Importer so that he can only modify Purchase Order details.
yours
timp
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9512,'Tue May 25 19:36:55 1999','New button needed',3,9428,'
Frank,
on the brief report could we have an Airflow button saying "Full" ?
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9513,'Tue May 25 20:03:48 1999','Status 20:00 25/05/1999',3,0,'
I have created the PFE and Agent screens.
PFE is the only one with complete write access,
the importer and agent can only edit their respective fields.
The PFE Administration screens are a bit ropy /default.
There are still a few things to sort out,
but I am happy to demo it now.
Please play and comment.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9514,'Tue May 25 22:50:39 1999','Re: Datacache was Re: Re: Re: User object/login system ',1,9496,'
>
>>>If the session isn\'t set or has expired, or the server has been restarted,
>>>then the user is taken to a plain old login, but a template rather than .html,
>>>Otherwise the userid and user_type are retrieved from the session,
>>>So no need to query the db.
>>>Myles, Should we be using dbCache here?
>>I don\'t understand what you mean.
>Turns out nor do I.
>Every handler has the following line in it:
> private DataCache dataCache = DataCache.getInstance();
>
>But is never used again.
>Shouldn\'t we be using them?
not unless you want to, it\'s mostly used internally in the datadictionary code. you can do
DDRecord a = dataCache.getDDRecord(db,"orders",1);
instead of
DDRecord a = new DDRecord(db,"orders",1);
which will save you a database lookup (if the table "orders" is marked as cached). this isn\'t often worthwhile.
timj
>yours
>timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9515,'Tue May 25 22:55:52 1999','Re: Rollout',1,9500,'
>What is involved in rolling out a system?
>1. Set debug off in all modules
do this last (if at all)
>2. Install CVS on Maytech
is this necessary?
>Is what I hope.
>any other problems?
you will need to update webmacro, and install the OROMatcher pattern matching stuff. obviously you need to build the db, and loads of stuff. i would budget 1 day for this.
chippy, are we going to run multiple vms on maytech?
it is inevitable that you will break sugar when updating maytech. please let me know when you plan to do this, so i can inform the customer.
timj
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9516,'Tue May 25 22:57:45 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IE 4 behaviour - Myles',1,9505,'
>When I press update on all of them in Netscape4 then the db is updated and all is well,
>When Frank/PFE/Tim used IE4 it said Remarks were mandatory and Product Ref was mandatory.
>Tim said \'there is an enormous screen of problems\'.
this is all down to a small IE javascript bug. i have now updated ganesh with the workaround. please retest
timj
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9517,'Wed May 26 0:46:53 1999','Re: Change Overseas Agents Ref to House B.O.L. No. ',102,9472,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
>
> The Overseas Agents ref is held against the purchase order,
> and so can be used at this point, the house_BOL is
> against the shipping_detail and so cannot easily be used to
> search at this point.
>
> The same problem applies to searching by container.
>
> I would like to know what a House BOL is (Bill of Lading),
> who creates it when?
>
> Is it just another name for overseas_agents_ref?
Let\'s leave this one for Thursday. Make a note to ask the client.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9518,'Wed May 26 0:48:11 1999','Re: Departures from skeleton/ Functional Spec.',102,9502,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> Frank,
>
> There a few thing which we have done in accordance with the skeleton,
> which I would like to change so that they are more aligned with the underlieing db.
>
> Currently we have two templates Importer.wm and imp_added_order.wm
> which are the same except that the second says where the messages have been sent.
>
> I would like to change it so that a message, possibly only a splash-screen, is shown
> saying who has been emailed and then they are returned to Importer.wm.
Sounds good to me.
> In the functional Spec we only have one input/amend screen,
> but we have Add Order and Amend Order.
>
> The screens can remain the same but there is no real point in having two screens,
> let alone two handlers.
Again, looking at it from a purly functional and graphical view
point, no problem with that.
> The functional Spec says :
> "There will be a facility to download the database contents into a format readable by Microsoft
> Access. "
Scratch that. For Access read CSV or XLS. These people would need to
have Access on their systems, and would also have to have an Access
database written for them that would display the data into a format
that would be intelliglble. Speaking with the client, a spreadsheet
format would be more than sufficient.
> I think it is still needed,
in the light of the above?
> but would like to postpone it until the requirement is defined.
Add it to Thursday\'s Q&A.
> (I belive this is separate from users downloading reports in CSV and even different from the batch updating now required)
Yes, I think you\'re right there.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9519,'Wed May 26 0:49:10 1999','Re: Re: Problems - Home Agent Ref',3,9485,'
>
> The Home Agent\'s Ref is on the shipping_details part of the form
> but is in the purchase order table.
>
> It cannot currently be modified.
>
> Is this the House Bill of Lading?
> What will it contain?
> Should there be one for ever shipping_detail or one for every purchase order?
Check with client on Thursday.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9520,'Wed May 26 0:50:14 1999','Re: Agent Options',102,9511,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> Frank,
>
> In new skeleton we have Agents being able to add orders.
>
> Infact all they can do is view/amend.
>
> This reflects the fact that the funcspec has a single
> View/Amend function and the skeleton has
> view/amend and Add.
>
> I will remove Add from Agent,
> Modify Agent so that he can only update the shipping details and
> Modify Importer so that he can only modify Purchase Order details.
No!!!
Although the FS says:
1.Add/Amend Order
2.Shipping Information
3.Status Information
This has now obviously been changed to:
1.Add Order
2.View/Amend (which includes Shipping/Status)
It is imperative that Agents can ADD an order, and the FS reflects
this.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9521,'Wed May 26 0:51:28 1999','Re: Have changed imp_added_order.wm',102,9509,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> I have also added mailtos.
>
> It currently says that an email will be sent to the supplier,
> should this be there, or conditional on whether the email
> has been entered or should email be mandatory in add supplier?
I\'ve checked the FS and can\'t find a mention of \'send e-mail to
supplier\'. There is no such requirement in any instance.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9522,'Wed May 26 0:53:53 1999','Re: New button needed',102,9512,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> Frank,
>
> on the brief report could we have an Airflow button saying "Full" ?
Attached.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9523,'Wed May 26 10:05:40 1999','Re: Re: Agent Options',3,9520,'
>>
>> I will remove Add from Agent,
>> Modify Agent so that he can only update the shipping details and
>> Modify Importer so that he can only modify Purchase Order details.
>No!!!
>Although the FS says:
>1.Add/Amend Order
>2.Shipping Information
>3.Status Information
>This has now obviously been changed to:
>1.Add Order
>2.View/Amend (which includes Shipping/Status)
>It is imperative that Agents can ADD an order, and the FS reflects
>this.
No it doesn\'t.
The FS says that the Importer adds the Order which is emailed to the Agent.
The site now reflects the FS in this respect.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9524,'Wed May 26 10:41:34 1999','Completed Order Colour on Brief Report',3,9428,'
On the Brief Report the completed orders should have a cell background of #CCFFCC.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9525,'Wed May 26 11:15:33 1999','Re: Completed Order Colour on Brief Report - DONE',3,9524,'
>On the Brief Report the completed orders should have a cell background of #CCFFCC.
Done
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9526,'Wed May 26 12:20:17 1999','Re: Re: Have changed imp_added_order.wm -DONE',3,9521,'
>I\'ve checked the FS and can\'t find a mention of \'send e-mail to
>supplier\'. There is no such requirement in any instance.
Understood.
The Skeleton suggested that the Supplier should be emailed,
but the FS is clear. The site now reflects the FS.
ie emails sent on order creation/amendment to:
PFE
Importer
Agent
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9527,'Wed May 26 12:21:15 1999','Re: Rollout',1,9500,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by TimP
Timp raised a very interesing point about rollout on maytech.
We need to decide if each project is going to have their own VM, or are they all going to run under a single VM.
Here are some of the plus/minuses
Single VM (plus):
1) Uses less resources (things like the datacache and db connection pool have only one instance)
2) Easier to maintain - you only have 1 version of webmacro and paneris shared classes.
3) All our projects stay in-line (everyone is always running the latest version of the shared code)
4) We have proved(?) that single jserve vms work.
4) We only have a single copy of all the shared code (webmacro, paneris shared etc)
Single VM (minus)
1) You need to keep all shared code in line - if we update say webmacro, we will need to recompile all code for all projects and
ensure everything still works.
2) If one site goes down, they all do.
3) When updating a site (or installing a new one) we are likely to bring the other sites on the box down (at least for a short
while)
Given the above, I vote for multiple vms, but am very interested to hear everyone else\'s views.
If we do go multiple on maytech, I assume we should also do so on ganesh.
timj
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9528,'Wed May 26 12:39:37 1999','Re: Re: Error Handling',3,9499,'
>>Myles, Tim,
>>It doesn\'t look as though there is an example yet of non-default error handling.
>What is default error handling even? If you get an error (exception)
>you need to look at what caused it:
>1) User input - give a nice page explaining why they couldn\'t do
> what they wanted and what to change to make it work
>2) Bugs - exception should get to WMServlet
>3) Other unusual situations - see 2
>Myles
A bit cryptic.
What I did was:
else {
templateName = "PFETrack/templates/PFELogin.wm";
try {
return (Template) context.getBroker().getValue(TemplateProvider.TYPE,templateName);
} catch (Exception e) {
throw new HandlerException("Could not locate template: " + templateName);
}
}
Tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9529,'Wed May 26 12:40:07 1999','Re: Re: Re: Error Handling - DONE',3,9528,'
>>>Myles, Tim,
>>>It doesn\'t look as though there is an example yet of non-default error handling.
>>What is default error handling even? If you get an error (exception)
>>you need to look at what caused it:
>>1) User input - give a nice page explaining why they couldn\'t do
>> what they wanted and what to change to make it work
>>2) Bugs - exception should get to WMServlet
>>3) Other unusual situations - see 2
>>Myles
>A bit cryptic.
>What I did was:
> else {
> templateName = "PFETrack/templates/PFELogin.wm";
> try {
> return (Template) context.getBroker().getValue(TemplateProvider.TYPE,templateName);
> } catch (Exception e) {
> throw new HandlerException("Could not locate template: " + templateName);
> }
> }
>
>Tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9530,'Wed May 26 12:41:18 1999','Re: Re: Re: Problems - Home Agent Ref - DONE',3,9519,'
>>
>> The Home Agent\'s Ref is on the shipping_details part of the form
>> but is in the purchase order table.
>>
>> It cannot currently be modified.
>>
>> Is this the House Bill of Lading?
>> What will it contain?
>> Should there be one for ever shipping_detail or one for every purchase order?
>Check with client on Thursday.
>
>Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9531,'Wed May 26 12:42:44 1999','Re: Re: Change Overseas Agents Ref to House B.O.L. No. - DONE',3,9517,'
>>
>> The Overseas Agents ref is held against the purchase order,
>> and so can be used at this point, the house_BOL is
>> against the shipping_detail and so cannot easily be used to
>> search at this point.
>>
>> The same problem applies to searching by container.
>>
>> I would like to know what a House BOL is (Bill of Lading),
>> who creates it when?
>>
>> Is it just another name for overseas_agents_ref?
>Let\'s leave this one for Thursday. Make a note to ask the client.
>
>Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9532,'Wed May 26 12:48:19 1999','Re: Re: New button needed - DONE',3,9522,'
>> Frank,
>>
>> on the brief report could we have an Airflow button saying "Full" ?
>Attached.
Thanks Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9533,'Wed May 26 13:00:58 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IE 4 behaviour - Myles',3,9516,'
>>Tim said \'there is an enormous screen of problems\'.
>this is all down to a small IE javascript bug. i have now updated ganesh with the workaround. please retest
Now validation is broken.
Tim, Can you look at it or just undo your change?
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9534,'Wed May 26 13:04:25 1999','Re: Re: Make all dropdown fields uppercase.',3,9453,'
>>Myles,
>>how trivial is this?
>It\'s something we\'ve had the requirement for before.
>We probably want a new DataDictionary type (UpperCaseText
>or something, like Textarea) or have an extra DD entry,
>"UpperCase" like Mandatory. I favour the latter, but there
>are issues.
>In either case you\'ll need to alter setFromForm in DDRecord.
>You\'ll then have to add the Validation code (probably need a
>new ValidationProblem type) and update the javascript validation
>(you can either add a new utility validation function in the
>.js file or generate one from within HTMLUtil). You\'ll probably
>need to change DDField too.
>Otherwise we can hack it in the handlers. Call toUpperCase() on
>the strings you get from the form. Remember to make all comparisons
>case insensitive when looking at form data.
This would be nice to have, as I am using the default handlers to
Add Supplier, so cannot hack the short_name (username) to uppercase.
In the mean time Myles has hacked the PO to uppercase.
Tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9535,'Wed May 26 13:06:57 1999','Make purchase_order Uppercase - Done',3,9430,'
All purchase order numbers are now forced to uppercase.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9536,'Wed May 26 13:10:30 1999','Make organisations.address1 mandatory',3,9506,'
>Listed here.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9537,'Wed May 26 13:11:28 1999','Make organisations.contact_name mandatory',3,9506,'
>Listed here.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9538,'Wed May 26 13:11:55 1999','Make organisations.telephone mandatory',3,9506,'
>Listed here.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9539,'Wed May 26 13:12:25 1999','Make organisations.fax mandatory',3,9506,'
>Listed here.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9540,'Wed May 26 13:13:09 1999','Make organisations.address4 mandatory',3,9506,'
>Listed here.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9541,'Wed May 26 13:39:07 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IE 4 behaviour - Myles',2,9533,'
>>>Tim said \'there is an enormous screen of problems\'.
>>this is all down to a small IE javascript bug. i have now updated ganesh with the workaround. please retest
>Now validation is broken.
>Tim, Can you look at it or just undo your change?
>yours
>TimP
I\'ve sorted it out. For those fact fans out there, the problem was:
var myBool = new Boolean(someString);
gives a Boolean object (at least under JavaScript1.2 on NS).
myBool == true will always fail (it\'s an object, not a primitive
boolean). This can be solved by using:
var myBool = Boolean(someString);
This global function sets myBool to be a boolean primitive so
(myBool == true || myBool == false) is true.
Myles
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9542,'Thu May 27 0:10:55 1999','Sign Off',3,0,'
Going through the Functional Spec. I have come up with the
following which needs to be done prior to sign off:
Agree mechanism for Add Supplier to allow only
used suppliers to be displayed or leave as is.
Send emails after modification of Purchase order.
Send emails after modification of shipping_details.
Add \'copy from last\' button.
Agree current reports.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9543,'Sun May 30 17:04:55 1999','New templates',3,0,'
Hi Tim,
Nice one yesterday, and good to meet you.
Please find attached the two templates. I decided not to alter the
structure of the PFE Admin screen. They have the options there... if
they don\'t use them that\'s fine.
Hope you like the apples. apple1.gif is for a white background, the
other\'s for the www.pareris.co.uk menu frame background.
See ya.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9544,'Sun May 30 17:09:46 1999','Re: New templates',3,9543,'
>Hi Tim,
>Nice one yesterday, and good to meet you.
and you.
>Please find attached the two templates.
>I decided not to alter the
>structure of the PFE Admin screen. They have the options there... if
>they don\'t use them that\'s fine.
I have installed them both.
The PFE template needed some tweaking:
/form> had gotten misplaced.
Positioning of select/text needed aligning, still not happy with it.....
Shoudl the Add, Mopdify, Deleted buttons be Airflowed?
The brief report works, changed nnnnn to
The full button needs a transparent background.
Should the Full reports be colour coded?
>Hope you like the apples. apple1.gif is for a white background, the
>other\'s for the www.pareris.co.uk menu frame background.
Thanks,
I have used them at http://www.paneris.co.uk/philosophy/
I slowed down the refresh rate so that it doesn\'t blank.
The K is a bit \'times-Roman\' do you have a Greek Font?
(ms Symbol probabbly).
Thanks again will get back on the case when hangover recedes.
yours
timp
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9545,'Tue Jun 1 17:49:51 1999','PFE Meeting Report',3,0,'
Meeting Report
Present: Adam Collins
Frank Wognam
Tim Pizey
Actions to Sign off Functional Spec
Remove Order Date from Report Selection
Color code cancelled orders on the Brief report
Remove Vat/Duty/entry number from reports/screens
From Update return to Amend
If the Agent completes an order then don\'t ask him to change the status
Implement \'Copy from Order\'
Send emails in \'Full Report\' format on Add or Amend.
Payment subject to completion of the above.
Roll Out of Phase 1
One person will start to test the system.
The person nominated will be given an email address to send all bug reports to.
Phase 2
Add text box for buying agent
Add notes field to shipping details
Allow Agents same user functions as PFE
Change the organisation to importer throughout
Make input boxes for Purchase Order, Short Name, Product Ref, Product type convert to uppercase
Modify Order Object so that it can be searched by:
Date Required,
Container,
House BOL,
Home Agents Ref,
Product type
Add Order needs a dropdown of previously used Product types
Enable the breakdown of Purchase Order Quantities by type
A quote to be presented.
Customer Service Database
A customer tracking system was also discussed.
This was to comprise two elements:
A generic Contact Management system which would perform the usual functions
A PFE specific element which would enable customer specific buying/selling lists to be generated and emailed.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9546,'Wed Jun 2 1:15:16 1999','Re: Re: New templates',3,9544,'
Hi Tim,
> Shoudl the Add, Mopdify, Deleted buttons be Airflowed?
See attached. Should be on a light grey background.
> The brief report works, changed nnnnn to
> The full button needs a transparent background.
Done. See attached.
>
> Should the Full reports be colour coded?
Yes please, with the Key at the top. Thanks, I forgot.
> The K is a bit \'times-Roman\' do you have a Greek Font?
> (ms Symbol probabbly).
See attached.
Speak to you later.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9547,'Wed Jun 2 2:21:30 1999','Re: PFE Meeting Report',3,9545,'
>Actions to Sign off Functional Spec
>Remove Order Date from Report Selection
Done
>Color code cancelled orders on the Brief report
Done
Also done full report.
>Remove Vat/Duty/entry number from reports/screens
Done
>From Update return to Amend
Done - the back button now takes you back to the order with the amended data
>If the Agent completes an order then don\'t ask him to change the status
This isn\'t right. If the Agent can change orders (as per phase 2) then he should change status as well.
Have cured a bug and found a new one:
The database sees the date in American format,
so 01/06/1999 is seen as 6th Jan 1999, will fix asap,
but to test reports just change the to-date to the year 2000.
Outstanding:
>Implement \'Copy from Order\'
>Send emails in \'Full Report\' format on Add or Amend.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9548,'Wed Jun 2 12:08:39 1999','Final invoice for phase 1',3,0,'
The final invoice for phase 1 is on the site.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9549,'Thu Jun 3 4:17:37 1999','Status 03/06/1999 04:12',3,0,'
Emails are being sent and validation is back with buttons.
The Outstanding list has grown; Myles can you help?
Implement \'Copy from Order\'
Additional button on add_order which still needs required fields, but copies other details from selected po.
Solve sql/date bug - I have nearly got there
Add continue button such that the modified order is redisplayed
Modify add supplier so that a \'blank\' purchase_order is inserted
and Limit suppliers to those used.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9550,'Thu Jun 3 15:19:09 1999','Re: Re: PFE Meeting Report',3,9547,'
Adam,
We have worked flat out, and have made considerable progress.
There is now a \'Copy details from\' button on Add Order,
which copies the first shipping details record from the specified order into the new Order.
Emails are sent to the correct people (email addresses can be set in Modify Users).
At the moment all users can see all suppliers on the system,
I will address this as soon as I am back from my break (Tuesday).
Please play with the system, you can do no harm, if you find any errors
(I expect there are some) then please send me an email (tim@paneris.co.uk).
regards
Tim Pizey
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9551,'Thu Jun 3 19:49:17 1999','Client Meeting 03/06/99',102,0,'
Hi Tim,
Went to see Adam this evening to talk him through PFETrack one
last time before he sees his customer tomorrow. He has another
meeting on the 14th with a VIP and he\'s perfectly happy to deal
with you on all further matters pertaining to PFETrack until I
get back. I was telling him about the 180hours/380hours equation
and he mentioned that a business associate\'s company (also Freight
Forwarders) had had their entire internal purchase, sales, admin
system written to a computerised system, and the programmers had
the worst time with the shipment order and tracking system. He
accepts that much of the problem has been our inability to think
on his level (which he sees as a criticism of his industry, not a
criticism of us). However, he is very pleased with the work, and
now appreciates the amount of time and effort that has gone into
PFETrack, and how over budget we went.
Adam recognises the reason why Suppliers_by_Agent or
Suppliers_by_Importer isn\'t done yet and has no problem with the
delay. Apart from that here are a number of comments about PFETrack
which arose at the meeting. Let\'s discuss the billing of these at
some point.
1. There needs to be a [View/Amend Order][Selection] button at
the foot of every screen, including the View/Amend screens themselves.
Adam feels there is too much clicking just to navigate.
2. On [Add Order], the form fields Quantity and Date need to be mandatory.
3. Can we force case in input fields? Adams wants all fields not only
to be displayed in upper case, but to force upper case _whilst people
are typing_. ??
4. When in [View/Amend Order] please can we remove the default 0 (zero)
from the following Shipping Information fields: Shipped Quantity,
Cartons, CBM, Kgs. Adam felt there is a danger people will tab down
and when entering 1200, will end up with 12000 because there was already
a zero in the field.
5. \'Container No.\' should allow a maximum of 12 digits entered into the field.
6. There needs to be a button on the confirmation screen after [View/Amend
Order] to let people know what to do (already told him there will be a
[Continue] buttone here).
:: YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THE FOLLOWING ::
7. When a second Shipping Information is generated as a result of a
part-completed shipment, ALL THE BOXES IN THE SECOND SHIPPING INFORMATION
NEED TO BE BLANK. Can you believe it? After all that work!
8. I think he\'s happy about [Copy Info from] on [Add Order] (I say \'think\'
because this button, in the light of 6) above [Copy Info from] is
beginning to confuse me). It should work as follows on [View/Amend
Order]: In [View/Amend Order], when [Copy Info from] is pressed in
preference to [Click Here to Amend Order Details], the same page you
are on should refresh, but this time include the Shipping and Status
information from the pre-selected Purchase Order. I just want to make
sure we are going down the same track. If you are at all unsure about
this, please be sure to contact Adam direct.
9. On [Add Order], there has to be a selection drop down of previously
entered \'Type\' and the facility to enter a new \'Type\' if the one you
want isn\'t shown.
10. There was a wierd bug which caused the PFETrack HTML Login page
(including all images!) to be printed off the machine onto which the
e-mail was received when BEWISE was used as the Importer. I tried to
reproduce this bug (I really saw it happen!) by changing the e-mail
address from pfechelm@pfe-express.co.uk to bewise@airflow.net, but
it all works perfectly now. This last one FYI only.
That\'s all for now. I\'ve had about enough of PFETrack as I can take.
Hope you had a good weekend. See you when I get back.
Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9552,'Thu Jun 3 22:17:50 1999','New Country',102,0,'
Hi chaps,
I tried to add a new country, Cambodia.
Wouldn\'t let me do it, something about a duplicate key.
NB, PFE has a new password \'CORDELIA\' (uper case)
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9553,'Tue Jun 8 13:55:56 1999','Re: Re: Re: PFE Meeting Report',3,9550,'
Hi Adam,
>At the moment all users can see all suppliers on the system,
>I will address this as soon as I am back from my break (Tuesday).
Add Order now works the way you want.
PFE and Agents can see all suppliers in the Add Order supplier dropdown,
but importers can only see suppliers they have used.
If an importer wishes to use a new supplier they must add the supplier and then add the purchase order.
The new supplier is added to the list (but only straight after the sup[plier has been added).
I will spend the time until Frank comes back preparing a specification for the
remaining improvements.
regards
Tim Pizey
If you encounter any problems please let me know.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9554,'Tue Jun 8 13:57:56 1999','Re: New Country',3,9552,'
>Hi chaps,
>I tried to add a new country, Cambodia.
>Wouldn\'t let me do it, something about a duplicate key.
This is another occurance of this bug.
It goes away when you repeat the transaction.
It is a big worry and we will try to track this bug down,
but intermittent bugs are the worse.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9555,'Thu Jun 10 12:32:54 1999','PFETRACK',104,0,'
Tim,
as discussed system will not allow me to create
new countries or delete organisations.
Adam
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9556,'Thu Jun 10 13:07:34 1999','Bugs in Full Report',3,0,'
Adam,
Thanks for your call.
The Vessel Name was hard coded as \'Airflow Enterprise\'
and PFE Ref was, as you said, printing the quantity required.
I have changed them both.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9557,'Thu Jun 10 13:14:41 1999','PFE Report Selection - Add importer dropdown',3,0,'
Adam,
I think that PFE and Agents need to be able to select the Importer
that they want to report on, though an importer should only see his own orders.
This is just a note to remind us later.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9558,'Thu Jun 10 14:10:39 1999','Re: New Country - fixed',3,9552,'
>Hi chaps,
>I tried to add a new country, Cambodia.
>Wouldn\'t let me do it, something about a duplicate key.
I have cured this manually by typing:
SELECT nextval (\'country_lookup_id_seq\');
I am not sure how the database got corrupted, and hope that
it was by my taking the server down during testing before a
transaction had completed.
If this problem reoccurs please let me know.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9559,'Thu Jun 10 17:44:29 1999','PFE track',104,0,'
Tim,
I have loaded 7 orders all for same client \'Bewise\'
on to system all for our agent in bangladesh. i have
told them how to log in etc, also i have run report and
logged in as our agent, couple of points :-
a)Can our agent and us sort on reports by Importer ?
b)When our agent logs in I cannot see where they will
see the name of the importer on the order.
c)On the full report it does not show the full details,
ie : shipment date, mode etc, the reason for running
the report is to use as a check and contact suppliers,
so all the details need to be shown.
Best Regards
Adam
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9560,'Wed Jun 23 21:11:23 1999','Email contents',104,0,'Posted on behalf of Adam by TimP
>Frank, we had a meeting with Bewise last week and one point that was raised was
>that the e-mail that is generated on the system when a order is ammended should
>state what has been ammended.
>i.e.
>
>if shipment date is ammended the e-mail should say check ammended shipment date.
>
>Also would it be possible to put together a brochure / instruction manual to cover the
>tracking system as this would be most helpfull when demonstrating the system to clients.
>
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9561,'Wed Jun 23 22:26:01 1999','Add Order bug - Fixed',3,0,'
Hi Adam,
I have fixed the add order bug.
Talk to you next week.
regards
Tim Pizey
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9562,'Thu Jun 24 13:15:43 1999','Some PFETrack bugs',102,0,'
PFE are really using the system now, getting agents and
importers to use the system.
Adam rang today with some bugs he discovered, some trivial,
some not so trivial:
1. Error messages are displayed in a generic green times
new roman. Can we \'AirFlow\' them?
2. Currently an order number needs to be unique. If you try
to give an order an already existing number it will spit it
out. It is likely that some importers may at some point
enter what they consider to be a unique order number
(because in their system it is) but if the order number
already exists having been entered by another user, it will
spit it out. Any suggestions on how to counter this?
3. Copy Previous Info doesn\'t work as desired, but I understand that
this will be worked on when TimP returns from the mudhole
4. An error is returned when using the \'Back\' button on
some \'order confirmed\' screen.
5. We have to address how an importer/agent is notified of
the exact amendment made to an order. Is there some way an
amendment can be flagged on the page as being a \'change\',
or is it easier to notify precise amendments by e-mail?
Many thanks. Have got a meeting with the client next week
and will no doubt have more comments to make then.
Cheers for now.
Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9563,'Thu Jun 24 13:17:03 1999','little bugette',102,0,'
Please could you adjust the H & W tags on the "Click Here to Amend Order" button.
Thanks
Frank
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9564,'Thu Jul 8 12:53:37 1999','Spotted something here...',102,0,'
Hi,
Adam spotted that if you log in as an Agent, you can add an
order, but you can\'t amend the purchase order details of a
previously added order.
Please could we change this. Agents need to be able to have
access to all parts of an order, including the purchase
order details.
Many thanks
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9565,'Fri Jul 9 14:29:40 1999','More bugs... sorry',102,0,'
I logged in as Bewise (BEWISE:REDS) - Importer.
Went to Add Order/Add Supplier. Entered \'AirFlow Design\'
and \'AIRFLOW\' (shortname). Clicked \'Update\' and I got a
\'can\'t make duplicate entry\' error Do you want to amend
this record?\'. On \'Yes\' it opened a new browser window
which was an Admin sceen allowing me to amend organisations!
Closed the separate window without entering anything, back to
Add Supplier and changed the name to \'AirFlow Studios\'. Got the following message:
ERROR!
Your handler was unable to process the request successfully
for some reason. Here are the details:
org.webmacro.servlet.HandlerException: No datasource
specified.
From here my \'Back\' button wouldn\'t take me anywhere, so I
had to click the \'PFETrack\' link on the menu. It took me
to the login screen, so I entered te details for Bewise
again, and PFETrack just returned the login screen every time
I entered this or any other login.
Hmm...
(over to you)
TTFN
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9566,'Sun Jul 11 19:51:30 1999','Another one...',102,0,'
I\'ve mentioned it before, but as part of another problem.
It also exists on its own.
I logged in as BEWISE, added an order and Clicked to
confirm the order. On clicking \'PFETrack Login\', the
system should display the PFETrack user\'s opening screen
with the 3 options (add, view/amend, reports). It doesn\'t.
It displays the opassword page. Upon entering the login and
password it hangs on this page. Only way to circumvent this
at present is to shut down and reload the browser.
Exists in NS4.5 and IE4.
Hmmmmm
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9567,'Sun Jul 11 23:48:16 1999','Oh God... another one!',102,0,'
I logged in as BEWISE and went to Add Order. I added a new
supplier called TESTSUPPLIER. The system went through its
\'Edit Organisations\' screen and then returned me to the Add Order
screen. However, TESTSUPPLIER was NOT added to the supplier
list.
I shut down my browser, re-launched it and logged on as PFE.
TESTSUPPLIER is listed as an organisation, and also as a
supplier.
Thinking it might be a cache thing, I shut down my browser,
re-launched it and logged on as BEWISE. TESTSUPPLIER was
still NOT listed as one of their suppliers even though I
was logged in as BEWISE when I added it.
Oops.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9568,'Sun Aug 1 17:15:48 1999','Re: Oh God... another one!',3,9567,'
>I logged in as BEWISE and went to Add Order. I added a new
>supplier called TESTSUPPLIER. The system went through its
>\'Edit Organisations\' screen and then returned me to the Add Order
>screen. However, TESTSUPPLIER was NOT added to the supplier
>list.
This might be a cache problem.
At this point you might have reloaded (shift-reload)
and it might have performed differently.
If this is the case then it is easy to put a no-cache
metta tag in.
>I shut down my browser, re-launched it and logged on as PFE.
>TESTSUPPLIER is listed as an organisation, and also as a
>supplier.
>Thinking it might be a cache thing, I shut down my browser,
>re-launched it and logged on as BEWISE. TESTSUPPLIER was
>still NOT listed as one of their suppliers even though I
>was logged in as BEWISE when I added it.
>Oops.
No, this is correct.
If you didn\'t add a purchase order then they are still not
one of \'your\' suppliers.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9569,'Sun Aug 1 17:21:32 1999','Re: More bugs... sorry',3,9565,'
>I logged in as Bewise (BEWISE:REDS) - Importer.
>Went to Add Order/Add Supplier. Entered \'AirFlow Design\'
>and \'AIRFLOW\' (shortname). Clicked \'Update\' and I got a
>\'can\'t make duplicate entry\' error Do you want to amend
>this record?\'. On \'Yes\' it opened a new browser window
>which was an Admin sceen allowing me to amend organisations!
>Closed the separate window without entering anything, back to
>Add Supplier and changed the name to \'AirFlow Studios\'. Got the following message:
>ERROR!
>Your handler was unable to process the request successfully
>for some reason. Here are the details:
>org.webmacro.servlet.HandlerException: No datasource
>specified.
>From here my \'Back\' button wouldn\'t take me anywhere, so I
>had to click the \'PFETrack\' link on the menu. It took me
>to the login screen, so I entered te details for Bewise
>again, and PFETrack just returned the login screen every time
>I entered this or any other login.
>Hmm...
>(over to you)
>TTFN
This is horrible, it seems to be a bug in the
validation scripts.
I am hoping that this will be fixed by myles.
Either way we can stop the users being exposed to it.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9570,'Sun Aug 1 17:28:58 1999','Phase 2',3,0,'
Hi Frank,
Hope that the back isn\'t too bad.
Mine has started to play up again, not helped by a number of 12 hours computing stints recently.
I am going to Scotland until 14th August, but hope to get into Phase 2 when I come back.
I know it is difficult to sell the sporadic attention that I have available to the customer, as I am sure that they want the service they can demand from an employee, but I hope to be able to give the project my full attention soon after getting back.
One benefit to the customer is that I have been working on
sub-systems which he benefits from or projects which we can
sell (such as the messageboards) cheaper to him as the initial development cost has been born by Bloomsbury.
I would like a prioritised list of problems which are still outstanding if possible.
talk when I get back
Tim
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9571,'Mon Aug 2 15:37:30 1999','Re: Phase 2',102,9570,'
>Hi Frank,
>Hope that the back isn\'t too bad.
Nah... the week away did me a powerof good.
>Mine has started to play up again, not helped by a number of 12 hours computing stints recently.
Serves you right for being a techie!
>I am going to Scotland until 14th August, but hope to get into Phase 2 when I come back.
Hope Adam doesn\'t ask about it in the meantime...
>I know it is difficult to sell the sporadic attention that I have available to the customer, as I am sure that they want the service they can demand from an employee, but I hope to be able to give the project my full attention soon after getting back.
I, he, all of us will look forward to it!
>I would like a prioritised list of problems which are still outstanding if possible.
Christ, I haven\'t the faintest idea... I suppose all of the
ones I have posted on here. We need to sit down and have a
chat I guess and go through the msgboard and pick out the
bits that need urgent work... but in what order?
...but not now. I\'m knackered!
Speak to you soon.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9572,'Mon Aug 2 15:37:37 1999','Re: Phase 2',102,9570,'
>Hi Frank,
>Hope that the back isn\'t too bad.
Nah... the week away did me a powerof good.
>Mine has started to play up again, not helped by a number of 12 hours computing stints recently.
Serves you right for being a techie!
>I am going to Scotland until 14th August, but hope to get into Phase 2 when I come back.
Hope Adam doesn\'t ask about it in the meantime...
>I know it is difficult to sell the sporadic attention that I have available to the customer, as I am sure that they want the service they can demand from an employee, but I hope to be able to give the project my full attention soon after getting back.
I, he, all of us will look forward to it!
>I would like a prioritised list of problems which are still outstanding if possible.
Christ, I haven\'t the faintest idea... I suppose all of the
ones I have posted on here. We need to sit down and have a
chat I guess and go through the msgboard and pick out the
bits that need urgent work... but in what order?
...but not now. I\'m knackered!
Speak to you soon.
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9573,'Wed Aug 18 1:50:21 1999','Initial URL change',3,0,'
Frank,
TimJ has decided to alter the naming conventions of our
servlets, so I have updated left.html on th sight ot reflect the new URL.
I think everything else works.
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9574,'Wed Aug 18 15:45:13 1999','Re: Initial URL change',102,9573,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> Frank,
>
> TimJ has decided to alter the naming conventions of our
> servlets, so I have updated left.html on th sight ot reflect the new URL.
OK, no problem. When (just as a matter of interest) are we moving the
webmacro from Maytech to Pfeweb? Or is it irrelevant?
>
> I think everything else works.
Smashing. I have my meeting with Adam tomorrow pm and will let him
know the site\'s cleared of outstanding bugs. One of his clients, in
London, a clothing importer, wants AirFlow to do their website
(having seen PFEWeb). If they want any sort of e-commerce facilities
or database integration, are you up for it (work permitting)?
TTFN
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9575,'Wed Aug 18 15:47:11 1999','Re: Re: Initial URL change',3,9574,'
>> Frank,
>>
>> TimJ has decided to alter the naming conventions of our
>> servlets, so I have updated left.html on th sight ot reflect the new URL.
>OK, no problem. When (just as a matter of interest) are we moving the
>webmacro from Maytech to Pfeweb? Or is it irrelevant?
>>
>> I think everything else works.
>Smashing. I have my meeting with Adam tomorrow pm and will let him
>know the site\'s cleared of outstanding bugs.
No, I just meant that this new bug had been caught, hopefully before anyone noticed.
I have not had time to address the other problems, even to the point of having a list of what they are.
>One of his clients, in
>London, a clothing importer, wants AirFlow to do their website
>(having seen PFEWeb). If they want any sort of e-commerce facilities
>or database integration, are you up for it (work permitting)?
Yes, if I ever manage to get anything finished :(
cheers
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9576,'Thu Aug 19 13:07:09 1999','Re: Re: Re: Initial URL change',102,9575,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
> >> I think everything else works.
>
> >Smashing. I have my meeting with Adam tomorrow pm and will let him
> >know the site\'s cleared of outstanding bugs.
>
> No, I just meant that this new bug had been caught, hopefully before anyone noticed.
> I have not had time to address the other problems, even to the point of having a list of what they are.
OOPS!
>
> >One of his clients, in
> >London, a clothing importer, wants AirFlow to do their website
> >(having seen PFEWeb). If they want any sort of e-commerce facilities
> >or database integration, are you up for it (work permitting)?
>
> Yes, if I ever manage to get anything finished :(
Very dependent upon the level of OOPS! eh?
Love the new board, BTW. Haven\'t looked at it, but I got a copy of my
own message... good stuff!
TTFN Hope to hear from you by tomorrow lunchtime.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9577,'Thu Aug 19 13:12:20 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Initial URL change',3,9576,'
>Love the new board, BTW. Haven\'t looked at it, but I got a copy of my
>own message... good stuff!
No, I am just doing your posting for you.
I will migrate the board to the new boards soon, but until then please
post via the board, as always.
>TTFN Hope to hear from you by tomorrow lunchtime.
What do you hope to hear?
I am waiting for you to review and categorise the outstanding problems,
which was to be done prior to my return from holiday.
yours
timP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9578,'Fri Aug 20 15:23:51 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Initial URL change',3,9577,'
> >TTFN Hope to hear from you by tomorrow lunchtime.
>
> What do you hope to hear?
>
> I am waiting for you to review and categorise the outstanding problems,
> which was to be done prior to my return from holiday.
Fine, whatever. I\'ll do it if I get some spare time but frankly I
can\'t see the point of posting notification of bugs and errors to the
message board if I then have to go there, collate them and inform
you, on the message board no doubt, of what is on the messageboard.
Had a long meeting with the client yesterday and have a list of
enhancements that he wants made to the site. I will produce a
HTML document including screenshots and templates by the end of
tomorrow which I hope you can find the time to read, digest and price
up for me a.s.a.p. please. PFE has lost Bewise as a client (you can
use them to test actual orders, login BEWISE, pwd REDS) but has gained
three others, all of whom are impressed with and would like to go onto
PFETrack. The overseas agents all want to go onto the system too, so
the additional work that could come out of this is exciting - but only
once it is up and running.
I need to know how to amend the templates (change font faces, add
images etc.) so that you can get on with the non-trivial stuff. I\'m
getting the impression that you are incredibly busy. Well I am too,
but I\'m prepared to take as much work off you to get this project
finished. If I have to come up and spend half a day with you then so
be it, but let\'s please get this show on the road.
Please call me if you need to. Otherwise, please get in touch once
you have my HTML req spec.
Cheers for now.
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9579,'Fri Aug 20 15:30:06 1999','Setup CVS',3,0,'
Frank,
to access the templates you need to install cvs from
http://www.cyclic.com/
When installed just point it at :pserver:timp@paneris.org:/usr/cvsroot (under CVSADMIN Preferences).
But then it will think you are timp, so I will probably have to give you some specific access, but this should work
for starters.
I can easily talk you through it, so no need to trek over here.
yours
TimP
PS my holiday photos are here:
http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/org.paneris.messageboard.MessageBoard?submit=submit&db=paneris&messageboard=25
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9580,'Mon Aug 23 12:09:11 1999','Re: Setup CVS',3,9579,'
> Frank,
>
> to access the templates you need to install cvs from
> http://www.cyclic.com/
Hi Tim,
the CVS website says: "The most popular graphical user interfaces on
Windows seem to be tkCVS, jCVS, and WinCVS."
Which one should I download?
Frank Wognum
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9581,'Mon Aug 23 12:13:43 1999','Re: Re: Setup CVS',3,9580,'
>> Frank,
>>
>> to access the templates you need to install cvs from
>> http://www.cyclic.com/
>
>Hi Tim,
>the CVS website says: "The most popular graphical user interfaces on
>Windows seem to be tkCVS, jCVS, and WinCVS."
>Which one should I download?
>
tkCVS is for Unix, jCVS is for Java machines(?), but for
us poor M$ slaves its WinCVS.
timp
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9582,'Thu Aug 26 19:32:21 1999','Images broken in CVS',3,0,'
Hi Myles, Frank,
It seems as though all the images in PFETrack/html
are broken because CVS thinks that they are text files.
I deleted (CVS removed) them all, then added them
(CVS add binary) but CVS just recovers an old version and
won\'t reset the binary flag.
So:
Frank, don\'t worry it will be fixed before you notice,
and I have spent an hour uncharged.
Myles can you fix ASAP?
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9583,'Fri Aug 27 13:09:08 1999','Re: Images broken in CVS',3,9582,'
Will, Andrij
Myles created a new node in CVS and added
all the images as ASCII, this affected /PFETRack/html/
in particular.
We have tried removing and erasing the files, but to no avail,
CVS remembers that this is a resurrection of an old file and
insists that it is ASCII not binary.
I have created a new node called /PFETrack/images and
changed the symbolic link to point to that,
so the customer is OK again,
but it would be nice to know what we should have done about it.
Any ideas?
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9584,'Sat Aug 28 13:45:28 1999','Requirement Spec for Phase 2',3,0,'
Hi Frank,
Thankyou for the requirement spec.
My rough cut response is at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/PFE/phase2_response.html
yours
TimP
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9585,'Sat Aug 28 14:00:09 1999','Re: Requirement Spec for Phase 2',3,9584,'
We should be able to have this installed by 10/10/99
yours
timp
','f','',55,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
56,'cmc','cmc Project',856,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/cmc/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/cmc/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9586,'Wed Aug 25 15:18:34 1999','New Quickie',102,0,'Posted on behalf of Frank by Tim
Hi Tim,
I hope this is only a quickie, you know how flustered I get when
dealing with what should be simple scripts but which baffle the
non-analytical mind of an artist! Here are the details you will
require to sort this little problem!
Site: CMC Group (computer peripherals etc)
URL to shop: www.cmcgrp.com/shop.html
Use the link on the left for \'Accessories\'.
Purchase any number of products from that page but that page only
because the rest of the pages are unfinished.
All the purchasing is done by a simple javascript webcart.
Go to the checkout and complete the form.
Formmail.pl is on a secure server.
On click "Send Order" the form should be sent to me but you should
tell me how to redirect it to the client
The checkout page is at www.cmcgrp.com/wc3-cout.html
Host: www.cmcgrp.com
Login: ***See original mail****
Pwd: ***See original mail****
formmail.pl and its readme is at wwws.enterprise.net/cmcgrp/cgi-bin
Host: ***See original mail****
Login: ***See original mail****
Pwd: go4it
Many thanks.
','f','',56,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9587,'Wed Aug 25 15:23:02 1999','Re: New Quickie',1,9586,'
>
>Hi Tim,
>I hope this is only a quickie, you know how flustered I get when
>dealing with what should be simple scripts but which baffle the
>non-analytical mind of an artist! Here are the details you will
>require to sort this little problem!
There is no sucjh thing as a quickie :)
So far:
You can only access the secure server ftp through an enterprise dial up (thanks)
The perl script has to end in extension .cgi
The site does allow limited telnet access but you cannot read the site logs.
Neither your site nor the cmg site works.
I have sent a message to enterprise and talked with gareth and chris there
but they told me to wait until Mark comes in a 4.
yours
timP
PS please use the site to initiate new jobs.
','f','',56,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9588,'Wed Aug 25 15:24:15 1999','Working example for secure server (sent to enterprise)',3,0,'
Hi,
I have been talking to Gareth in Technical Support who told me to mail you.
I am working for cmcgrp under instruction from Frank Wognam of
Airflow Design.
I am trying to get ANY perl script to work in the cgi-bin directory setup
for the end client cmcgrp.
I have placed the simplest perl script I can in the area:
#!/usr/local/bin/perl5
print "content-type: text/html\n";
print "\n\n";
print "hi\n";
__END__
This works when I telnet in and invoke it using:
perl testenv.cgi
however when I invoke it from a form I get a server error.
The logs for the virtual server are not visible within the captive shell,
as far as I can see.
I have tried every permutaion of #! lines
#!/usr/local/bin/perl5
#!/usr/local/bin/perl
#!/usr/bin/perl
#!/usr/bin/perl5
As ls cannot look outside of the cmcgrp filespace.
I would very much appreciate if you could place a small file in the
cgi-bin directory, which can be executed from the web, so that I can use it as a template.
yours
Tim Pizey
http://www.paneris.co.uk/
','f','',56,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9589,'Wed Aug 25 17:35:57 1999','Finished',3,0,'
Hi Frank,
I have got it working, I am afraid it took 3 hours.
For my future reference the url for enterprise is:
http://www.enterprise.net/enterprise/contact/index.html
The problems were:
Calling secure script using http:// not https://
Extension for perl scripts on wws.enterprise.net/ must be .cgi
I have placed a file called test.html at the top level:
http://wwws.enterprise.net/cmcgrp/test.html
which has a link to:
https://wwws.enterprise.net/cmcgrp/cgi-bin/testenv.cgi
Which can be invoked from the location line.
I have created a project node at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/cmc/
where the invoice is.
yours
TimP
PS the guy who can find his own ass with two hands is Mark,
suggest you ask for him by name.
','f','',56,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
57,'gemnet','gemnet Project',857,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/gemnet/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/gemnet/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9590,'Tue Sep 21 10:47:37 1999','Job Completed',3,0,'
Frank,
The problem turned out to be very easy, but I am
afraid I still have to charge for 2 hours, as I have to
raise the documentation.
The problem was with the variable basefile, this
is relative to the position of the script, so needed to be
changed from \'../docs/forum/\' to \'../\' .
If you move the script you will need to change this variable again.
The problem with wwwadmin was the same.
The invoice is here.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',57,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9591,'Tue Sep 21 10:47:37 1999','Re: Job Completed',3,9590,'
Well, when I say completed... :)
The script, as it comes out of the box, is buggy, and
I don\'t like the way it leaves data.txt in the
main directory.
So I have corrected three errors in wwwadmin.cgi and
changed the working directory for both scripts.
I look forward to hearing about the mailing list extension,
as the job took longer than I had hoped :)
yours
TimP
','f','',57,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
58,'ismr','ismr Project',858,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/ismr/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/ismr/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9592,'Tue Sep 21 10:45:57 1999','Job Done',3,0,'
Frank,
The script has been fixed, comments in the code.
I uploaded a dummy error.html and thanks.html.
Please see http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/ismr/
for the time record and invoice.
Invoice is for two hours as per verbal quote.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',58,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9593,'Tue Sep 21 10:45:57 1999','Mailform debugging',3,0,'
Hi Tim,
Just a bit of run of the mill debugging if you have the time, thanks.
I have a mailform script at http://www.ismr.com/test.html. It runs
perfectly well on a number of other sites on the same ISP and I cannot
understand why it won\'t run here.
The script reads the variables checked by the user and writes an email
using the template \'mailform.txt\' also found in the same directory as
test.html. In the form, "Email"and "Name" are mandatory fields. Miss
them out and you will get error.html (which doesn\'t exist, so you should
get an error 400). Get it right and you get Thanks.html (also error 400 at
this stage).
What actually happens is this. When you click submit without entering any
data you get \'Thank you for your submission\' and the URL in the location
bar changes to http://www.ismr.com/cgi-bin/form-mail.cgi. If you then
launch that URL, you get an error400, error.html not found! This means
that it only reads mailform.txt the second time round!
Most odd. Please could you give me a quote to take a look and correct any
error you find? Many thanks.
FTP hostname:
Login:
Pwd:
Please feel free to change the third line of mailform.txt from
"To: form@airflow.net,[+email]" to your own email address. Just revert it
if you manage to fix it!
Cheers for now.
--
Frank Wognum
','f','',58,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9594,'Tue Sep 21 10:45:57 1999','Re: Mailform debugging',4,9593,'
> Subject: Mailform debugging
> From: TimP (tim@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
> Most odd. Please could you give me a quote to take a look and correct any
> error you find? Many thanks.
>
> FTP hostname:
> Login:
> Pwd:
Did you mean to fill these in?
','f','',58,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
59,'airflow','airflow Interface',859,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/airflow/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/airflow/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9595,'Thu Sep 10 12:52:08 YYY 1998','Messageboards',3,0,'
Frank,
I am sending this message from my latest generation of
Matt\'s Script Archive messageboard.
I know that you have installed it a few times.
Whilst it is still \'cheap and cheerful\', requiring nothing
more than Perl, you can change everything about it, online.
Eg: Modify Message format,
and Messageboard format.
It also has server-side includes to give bodytag and some javascript, so for example,
if I know you IP addres, if you have a fixed one, it will fill in your name and email.
yours
TimP
PS I would very much like it if you would use the message boards for
important communications, but don\'t worry if it is too much of a hassle,
as I will be writing an email handler soon..
','f','',59,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9596,'Mon Apr 19 12:08:46 1999','New Project(ish)',102,0,'
Hi chaps,
I have a request for a quote. However, it is in the form
of a request for an indulgence as well.
I have got my self into a situation I need to get my self
out of with this particular client. The client is OK, but
the project has become a nightmare. He is setting up an
on-line store for DIY products, anything from drill bits
to garden forks. The graphic design is just about done,
but because of his limited budget we went for a piecemeal
product inventory construction.
The way it needs to work is obviously like Amazon.com or
similar, but the way it actually will work at present is
as follows:
The products (up to 3000) are entered into an Excel spreadsheet
by the client himself. He will also be scanning and manipulating
all images. The database is read by an app called GDIdb which
imports flat data files and, using a predefined template (my
job), outputs individual HTML files, each containing 5 - 15
products. There are ten departments, each with 20 - 30 sections,
and these have to be written by me and maintained by the client
to take into consideration new products or sections. The structure
looks like this:
Home -> select Department: Power Tools
Power Tools -> select Section: Cordless
Cordless -> select Section: Drills
Drills (this is the product page, with 5 - 15 products)
I am using a Javascript app called Shop@ssistant for the on-line
purchasing. Each product will have a \'Buy\' button. It looks
reasonably user-friendly but I haven\'t done the integration
of the Javascript into a product page yet so I don\'t know.
However, it has a good name, so I\'m confident it can deliver.
There are, however, severe limitations to this setup. Any
individual product may need a drop-down selection to indicate,
for example, quantity per pack (1,5 or 10), or separate sizes
(2mm,3.5mm or 6mm) or voltage (110V/240V). GDIdb cannot work
with such customisations. You either have it or you don\'t,
and that then has to apply for every product. The client
also wants to have rolling advert banners from various
manufacturers. All this will have to be manually edited once
GDIdb has done its stuff, and will become a nightmare. I
appreciate it would be easy to tell the client "you want it,
you gotta pay for it" but I\'m in a situation where I\'m locked in.
What can you chaps come up with, in the light of your experiences
with PFETrack, that could help me out here? For reasons that I
won\'t go into, I\'m locked into this project, and I\'m looking for
a way to run this site so that the client just amends the Excel
sheet and FTPs it to the server. No further user input.
I need your best price, because I suspect I\'m going to have
to suffer some of the cost. Help me out if you can.
Frank
','f','',59,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9597,'Wed May 5 14:00:41 1999','Re: New Project(ish)',3,9596,'
Boys,
This came from Frank on 19/04/99 but was only sent to me.
It looks rather difficult, what do you think?
yours
timp
>Hi chaps,
>I have a request for a quote. However, it is in the form
>of a request for an indulgence as well.
>I have got my self into a situation I need to get my self
>out of with this particular client. The client is OK, but
>the project has become a nightmare. He is setting up an
>on-line store for DIY products, anything from drill bits
>to garden forks. The graphic design is just about done,
>but because of his limited budget we went for a piecemeal
>product inventory construction.
>The way it needs to work is obviously like Amazon.com or
>similar, but the way it actually will work at present is
>as follows:
>The products (up to 3000) are entered into an Excel spreadsheet
>by the client himself. He will also be scanning and manipulating
>all images. The database is read by an app called GDIdb which
>imports flat data files and, using a predefined template (my
>job), outputs individual HTML files, each containing 5 - 15
>products. There are ten departments, each with 20 - 30 sections,
>and these have to be written by me and maintained by the client
>to take into consideration new products or sections. The structure
>looks like this:
>Home -> select Department: Power Tools
>Power Tools -> select Section: Cordless
>Cordless -> select Section: Drills
>Drills (this is the product page, with 5 - 15 products)
>I am using a Javascript app called Shop@ssistant for the on-line
>purchasing. Each product will have a \'Buy\' button. It looks
>reasonably user-friendly but I haven\'t done the integration
>of the Javascript into a product page yet so I don\'t know.
>However, it has a good name, so I\'m confident it can deliver.
>There are, however, severe limitations to this setup. Any
>individual product may need a drop-down selection to indicate,
>for example, quantity per pack (1,5 or 10), or separate sizes
>(2mm,3.5mm or 6mm) or voltage (110V/240V). GDIdb cannot work
>with such customisations. You either have it or you don\'t,
>and that then has to apply for every product. The client
>also wants to have rolling advert banners from various
>manufacturers. All this will have to be manually edited once
>GDIdb has done its stuff, and will become a nightmare. I
>appreciate it would be easy to tell the client "you want it,
>you gotta pay for it" but I\'m in a situation where I\'m locked in.
>What can you chaps come up with, in the light of your experiences
>with PFETrack, that could help me out here? For reasons that I
>won\'t go into, I\'m locked into this project, and I\'m looking for
>a way to run this site so that the client just amends the Excel
>sheet and FTPs it to the server. No further user input.
>I need your best price, because I suspect I\'m going to have
>to suffer some of the cost. Help me out if you can.
>Frank
','f','',59,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9598,'Wed May 5 14:16:25 1999','Re: New Project(ish)',3,9596,'
Frank
the site http://www.globalpower.co.uk/ front page fail;s with a javascript error.
Have you got an URL for GDIdb and shop@ssist?
Have you got example CSV files?
What fields will be in the CSV?
What does a template look like?
>What can you chaps come up with, in the light of your experiences
>with PFETrack, that could help me out here?
Hmmm..
>For reasons that I
>won\'t go into, I\'m locked into this project, and I\'m looking for
>a way to run this site so that the client just amends the Excel
>sheet and FTPs it to the server. No further user input.
>I need your best price, because I suspect I\'m going to have
>to suffer some of the cost. Help me out if you can.
Even you can\'t do the impossible.
Much like PFETrack this is a BIG project sold as a quickie.
If the customer can represent the data in Excel, then the
data structure cannot be as complex as you say, ie they won\'t be able to
represent dropdowns.
Have you seen the input data?
If they want a pukka job they would be well advised to
store the data in Access97, making a working model of what
they want webusers to see.
We can then take the database and port it to the web, but
this is a BIG job.
Yes we now have some tools which help, but we still need to write templates and handlers,
which, as we are currently finding, is not quick.
When PFETrack is up I will be hoping to take a break.
The project might not be as bad as it appears, but we
would have to see more details.
Sorry to be so negative, but in the light of PFETrack my
initial price would be 6K.
yours
timp
','f','',59,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9599,'Wed May 5 14:18:02 1999','test',3,9595,'
test
','f','',59,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9600,'Wed May 5 14:20:36 1999','test2',3,9595,'
test2
','f','',59,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9601,'Wed May 5 14:37:36 1999','Re: Re: New Project(ish)',1,9598,'
>Sorry to be so negative, but in the light of PFETrack my
>initial price would be 6K.
My reaction was: fairly standard shopping site (all the usual problems).
I think 6K is steep, and given that much of the datadesign and gui is done, we should be able to sort something out much cheeper.
Frank, your cheapest way of getting this done is to contract us on an hourly basis. In which case I would imagine that 100 hours should cover it.
Currently, I have too much going on to undertake this myself. However, if I don\'t get a big job that we are bidding for at present, I may have some time. I will know in 1-2 weeks.
However this is exactly the type of work we would normally take on, so please keep asking.
timj
','f','',59,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9602,'Wed May 5 16:48:56 1999','Re: Re: Re: New Project(ish)',102,9601,'
Hi guys,
> Frank, your cheapest way of getting this done is to
> contract us on an hourly basis. In which case I would
> imagine that 100 hours should cover it.
Remind me of your hourly rate, please!
Cheers
','f','',59,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9603,'Wed May 5 18:19:18 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: New Project(ish)',3,9602,'
>Hi guys,
>> Frank, your cheapest way of getting this done is to
>> contract us on an hourly basis. In which case I would
>> imagine that 100 hours should cover it.
>Remind me of your hourly rate, please!
40gbp
Even with TimJ\'s more optomistic estimate it is still 4k.
Sorry this is so steep.
yours
timP
','f','',59,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
60,'pcsl','pcsl Project',860,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/pcsl/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/pcsl/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9604,'Fri Oct 16 14:03:06 1998','Login script quote',3,0,'
Frank,
As discussed on the phone, the login script
will cost 240gbp.
Work is not, in theory, to start until go ahead given.
The script will reside on Paneris to avoid having to install on Netcom.
This will gather the users details
and email them to the client.
Additionally the script will ensure that
the details have been entered by checking
a cookie prior to allowing download, so that
people may not mearly bypass the data
gathering step.
(Paneris: please advise if this is best mechanism).
yours
TimP
','f','',60,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9605,'Fri Oct 16 16:39:11 1998','Re: Login script quote',102,9604,'
>Frank,
>As discussed on the phone, the login script
>will cost 240gbp.
Client has accepted the quote, so please commence at your earliest convenience.
>Work is not, in theory, to start until go ahead given.
Go ahead! Go ahead!
>The script will reside on Paneris to avoid having to install on Netcom.
Negative. This one WILL reside on their server (My fault. This is PCSL. You\'ve got this one mixed up with Silverman)
>This will gather the users details
>and email them to the client.
Yep.
>Additionally the script will ensure that
>the details have been entered by checking
>a cookie prior to allowing download, so that
>people may not mearly bypass the data
>gathering step.
The client will only offer 1 product at present for download, so the option is be be given as a drop-down box with further products added later next year.
A successful completion of the user\'s details page takes them to a page with the download link.
Cheers
Frank
','f','',60,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9606,'Fri Oct 16 16:39:14 1998','Re: Login script quote',102,9604,'
>Frank,
>As discussed on the phone, the login script
>will cost 240gbp.
Client has accepted the quote, so please commence at your earliest convenience.
>Work is not, in theory, to start until go ahead given.
Go ahead! Go ahead!
>The script will reside on Paneris to avoid having to install on Netcom.
Negative. This one WILL reside on their server (My fault. This is PCSL. You\'ve got this one mixed up with Silverman)
>This will gather the users details
>and email them to the client.
Yep.
>Additionally the script will ensure that
>the details have been entered by checking
>a cookie prior to allowing download, so that
>people may not mearly bypass the data
>gathering step.
The client will only offer 1 product at present for download, so the option is be be given as a drop-down box with further products added later next year.
A successful completion of the user\'s details page takes them to a page with the download link.
Cheers
Frank
','f','',60,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
61,'silvermans','silvermans Project',861,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/silvermans/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/silvermans/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9607,'Fri Oct 16 14:07:36 1998','Page silvermans quote',3,0,'
Frank,
As discussed on the \'phone the page silvermans script
and two others will be hosted on paneris so
as to avoid installation
problems with netcom.
How long will these scripts remain live?
What termination procedures are there?
What should I do if/when I change ISP?
The quote for the project is now 400gbp.
yours
TimP
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9608,'Fri Oct 16 16:42:18 1998','Re: Page silvermans quote',102,9607,'
>Frank,
>As discussed on the \'phone the page silvermans script
>and two others will be hosted on paneris so
>as to avoid installation
>problems with netcom.
>How long will these scripts remain live?
--- indefinitely.
>What termination procedures are there?
--- didn\'t understand the question
>What should I do if/when I change ISP?
--- maybe at some point in the future when we\'re not so darned stuffed for time we\'ll transfer them to their Netcom server.
>The quote for the project is now 400gbp.
Hmm... I\'m too generous.
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9609,'Fri Oct 16 16:44:10 1998','Multiboard',102,0,'
How about word-wrap of text, eh?
i.e.
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah
instead of
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Think on\'t
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9610,'Mon Nov 2 18:45:25 1998','Search script for silverman',3,0,'
Hi,
Please install the attached perl script for http://www.silverman.co.uk/;
I have read your cgi guidelines and believe that the script complies.
It is intended to search all files in a directory called \'products\',
below silverman\'s document root.
yours
Tim Pizey
PS Please copy info@airflow.net with any reply.
PPS When can we expect the script to be installed?
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9611,'Mon Nov 2 18:47:27 1998','Silverman status',3,0,'
Frank,
I have submitted the search form to netcom.
I tried to get on with the mail form, but don\'t have
the ftp password or a memory so could not get the
files from the site.
It would cut a long story short if you sent me the password,
but otherwise please give me the file names.
yours
timP
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9612,'Mon Nov 9 16:06:38 1998','Search script',102,0,'
I\'ve just discovered a \'self-imposed\' bug which would have been easy to correct had we not been stuck in this Netcom timewarp thing.
The HTML links that the search results page creates MUST be suffixed \'target="_top"\' otherwise the frame is ignored and the product page (which is a non-frames page with a menu bar) ends up inside a frameset with its own menu bar.
Since I can\'t do this, please could you correct this?
Cheers
Frank
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9613,'Fri Nov 13 13:40:20 1998','Re: Multiboard',3,9609,'
>How about word-wrap of text, eh?
>i.e.
>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
>blah
>instead of
>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Is this a possible option for textboxes?
yours
timP
>Think on\'t
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9614,'Fri Nov 13 13:41:55 1998','Re: Search script - FIXED',3,9612,'
>I\'ve just discovered a \'self-imposed\' bug which would have been easy to correct had we not been stuck in this Netcom timewarp thing.
>The HTML links that the search results page creates MUST be suffixed \'target="_top"\' otherwise the frame is ignored and the product page (which is a non-frames page with a menu bar) ends up inside a frameset with its own menu bar.
>Since I can\'t do this, please could you correct this?
>Cheers
>Frank
Have donel, and submitted to netcom
TimP
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9615,'Fri Nov 13 13:42:51 1998','Re: Search script',3,9612,'
Hi Tim:
This message has been forwarded to you by :-
AirFlow Design Studios -
*** Start of forwarded message ***
From Mark Silverman, MD of Silverman & Co Limited
[snip]
4. Product Search Engine
A) I used the word "Medite and Ash MDF" and it worked OK.
B) When you use the search engine to get to a product page it is
displayed as a frame page, can this be changed to a non-frame page?
D) Await your confirmation that it is bug free.
*** End of forwarded message ***
He spotted it, damn!
\'target="_top" at your earliest convenience please!
Thanks for your patience with me. Cheers for now.
--
Frank Wognum
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9616,'Fri Nov 13 13:46:54 1998','Depot Postcodes',3,0,'
Hi Tim,
Attached is the postcodes list for Silverman\'s.
Do with it what you will: keep it as CSV, trun it into TXT file, mash it
and have it with gravy... it\'s all yours!
Cheers for now.
--
Frank Wognum
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9617,'Fri Nov 13 13:53:49 1998','Re: Depot Postcodes',3,9616,'
Frank,
>Attached is the postcodes list for Silverman\'s.
>Do with it what you will: keep it as CSV, trun it into TXT file, mash it
>and have it with gravy... it\'s all yours!
I need to know what format the depot page names will be in:
I reckon they should be as follows:
Andover.html
Basildon.html
Borehamwood.html
NewtonAbbot.html
Wallisdown.html
yours
timP
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9618,'Fri Nov 13 14:06:32 1998','Re: Depot Postcodes',3,9616,'
For the first run I am making the following assumptions:
1. There will be depot pages at the top level.
2. These pages should be presented in the _top window
3. Only Postcodes need to be searched for
4. The Area is irrelevant
5. If the user types in BN3, and the data contains just BN then user is directed to page
6. If user puts in HP4 (not in list) then user redirected to notfound.html
yours
timP
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9619,'Fri Nov 13 17:34:21 1998','Re: Re: Depot Postcodes',3,9618,'
> I need to know what format the depot page names will be in:
>
> I reckon they should be as follows:
>
> Andover.html
> Basildon.html
> Borehamwood.html
> NewtonAbbot.html
> Wallisdown.html
Ok, these are the files (they\'re already done and uploaded):
and.html Andover
bas.html Basildon
hq.html Borehamwood
newt.html Newton Abbot
bourne.html Wallisdown (Bournemouth)
manch.html National Sales (not on the csv)
> For the first run I am making the following assumptions:
>
> 1. There will be depot pages at the top level.
> 2. These pages should be presented in the _top window
No, the depot pages and the depot locator are all within the same
frameset, hence NO \'target="_top"\'
> 3. Only Postcodes need to be searched for
Yes
> 4. The Area is irrelevant
Yes
> 5. If the user types in BN3, and the data contains just BN then user is directed to page
No, HP20 and HP21 is Andover, but HP2 and HP23 is Borehamwood. They have
to put in the correct postcode:
If they put HP2, they\'ll go to Borehamwood.
If they put in HP2 1AH they\'ll also go to Borehamwood because the
script should ignore any spaces and any text afer a space.
If they put HP21 4AH they\'ll go to Andover (as above)
If they put HP214AH the script will assume it\'s HP21 and send them to
Borehamwood. If they then ring Borehamwood the switchboard operator will
realise the user entered an incorrect postcode and transfer them to
Andover.
> 6. If user puts in HP4 (not in list) then user redirected to notfound.html
No, sorry. I should have told you. All incorrect or unrecognised postcodes
should redirect to manch.html (National Sales). The national sales team
will, on the phone, transfer somebody to the correct area. All e-mails are
received by the same PC at Head Office, so they\'re all be transferred at
source anyway.
Hope that clears it up. I got your message about the Search script. Wonder
if Netcom will get it done this weekend? Will you have the depot locator
submitted to them by Monday?
--
Frank Wognum
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9620,'Fri Nov 13 19:45:09 1998','Finder installed on paneris',3,0,'
Frank,
Finder is installed on paneris and works from silvermans.
(I changed depots.html, but didn\'t leave my name:)
I have submitted it, when it is installed on netcom
we will need to do the following:
1. put DepotPostcodes.csv into root of silvermans
2. change depots.html to action=netcom....
3. Change hidden field \'csv\' to read \'/DepotPostcodes.csv\'
yours
(a little late but on budget)
Tim
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9621,'Tue Nov 17 14:09:45 1998','Using mailform on paneris',3,0,'
Frank,
it is possible for you to modify mailform.txt without using FTP:
The file mailform.txt is held on paneris at
/partners/airflow/silvermans/ ie at this node.
When looking at this message you can:
1. press Other Functions in top fram
2. choos upload file
3. browse for your local copy of mailform.txt
4. put mailform.txt in the destination name
5. press go
This will overwrite the file and so change things like destination.
I will try again to submit the script to netcom,
they didn\'t like its hypothetical secuity holes,
and then you will be able to configure it by FTP
to the root of silvermans, but we will need to change
contact.html at that point.
yours
timP
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9622,'Tue Nov 17 14:17:26 1998','Re: Using mailform on paneris',102,9621,'
>Frank,
>it is possible for you to modify mailform.txt without using FTP:
>The file mailform.txt is held on paneris at
>/partners/airflow/silvermans/ ie at this node.
>When looking at this message you can:
>1. press Other Functions in top fram
You don\'t get frames when you click on the message in your mailclient!
>2. choos upload file
>3. browse for your local copy of mailform.txt
>4. put mailform.txt in the destination name
>5. press go
Nice one. Thanks for the functionality.
>I will try again to submit the script to netcom,
>they didn\'t like its hypothetical secuity holes,
They\'re tossers, aren\'t they?
>and then you will be able to configure it by FTP
>to the root of silvermans, but we will need to change
>contact.html at that point.
Let me know and it\'ll be done.
TTFN
Frank
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9623,'Tue Nov 17 14:26:50 1998','Mailform.txt changes',102,0,'Posted on behalf of Frank by TimP
Hi Tim,
Once you have corrected my balls-up(!) and have tested it to see that it
works to your satisfaction, please could you make the following ammendment
to the mailform.txt file:
To: info@silverman.co.uk,silverman@airflow.net,[+email]
At some point in the future I\'ll get you to remove the airflow e-mail. Many
thanks.
--
Frank Wognum
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9624,'Tue Nov 17 14:33:53 1998','Re: Mailform.txt changes - FIXED',3,9623,'
>Hi Tim,
>Once you have corrected my balls-up(!) and have tested it to see that it
>works to your satisfaction, please could you make the following ammendment
>to the mailform.txt file:
>To: info@silverman.co.uk,silverman@airflow.net,[+email]
>At some point in the future I\'ll get you to remove the airflow e-mail. Many
>thanks.
Done,
TimP
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9625,'Fri Nov 27 18:58:30 1998','I\'ve ballsed it up again',102,0,'
Hi Tim,
Please could you take a look at depots.html at Silverman\'s. I ran it through Frontpage to add a quick table and of course Frontpage stripped out the CGI command. Since I can\'t look at where the script is housed at those wankers Netcom, I can\'t rectify the problem and I can\'t find an e-mail that gives me the correct HTML tag for the Depot Locator.
Thanks in advance.
Host: silverman.co.uk
Login: silver1
Pwd: ch3m1stry
Frank
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9626,'Sun Feb 7 18:19:19 1999','Mailform ',102,0,'Posted on behalf of FrankW by TimP
Hi Tim,
Please could you test out the contact form at Silverman\'s:
http://www.silverman.co.uk/contact.htm
as it doesn\'t seem to be working. Could also check the tag in the above
file to ensure it is correct
(http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris//cgi-bin/silverman-form-mail.cgi)
Many thanks.
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9627,'Sun Feb 7 18:44:22 1999','Re: Mailform ',3,9626,'
Frank,
>Please could you test out the contact form at Silverman\'s:
>http://www.silverman.co.uk/contact.htm
>as it doesn\'t seem to be working. Could also check the tag in the above
>file to ensure it is correct
>(http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris//cgi-bin/silverman-form-mail.cgi)
The problems are two fold.
1. You have changed file name extensions from .html to .htm
2. You have changed the form invocation.
should read name=ws_template value=/partners/airflow/silvermans/mailform.txt
I have fixed both problems.
Let me know if any further problems crop up.
yours
timP
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9628,'Mon Feb 8 11:29:55 1999','Re: Re: Mailform ',102,9627,'Posted on behalf of FrankW by TimP
Oops! What a plonker I am. I know I did 1. but I have no idea how I
did 2. Never mind, please send me the bill for your trouble.
Thanks again for your help.
Speak to you soon.
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9629,'Mon Feb 8 11:32:51 1999','Re: Re: Re: Mailform ',3,9628,'
>Oops! What a plonker I am. I know I did 1. but I have no idea how I
>did 2.
>Never mind, please send me the bill for your trouble.
No need, as it was less than an hour, but you do get more
good will if you use the message board.
yours
TimP
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9630,'Tue Sep 14 10:50:22 1999','Mailform',102,0,'
Hi Tim,
Amended, tested and successfully uploaded the mailform
to paneris using upload.pl. Nice one.
See ya.
(Keep me posted re PFE)
Frank
','f','',61,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
62,'vonmatt','vonmatt Project',862,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/vonmatt/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/vonmatt/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9631,'Tue Jun 1 16:45:20 1999','database',1,0,'
are you not going to do a database?
you must want use templates surely?
checkout www.maytech.net/mia
for what can be achieved in 23.5 hours (from initial customer call to delivery).
R.A.D.
timj
','f','',62,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9632,'Tue Jun 1 19:42:20 1999','Re: database',2,9631,'
>are you not going to do a database?
No
>you must want use templates surely?
I did.
>checkout www.maytech.net/mia
>for what can be achieved in 23.5 hours (from initial customer call to delivery).
Did it in 4.5 hrs in Perl :-)
>R.A.D.
>timj
Myles
','f','',62,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9633,'Wed Jun 2 8:07:40 1999','Re: Re: database',1,9632,'
>>you must want use templates surely?
>I did.
webmacro?, iglu?, or did you \'roll your own\'?
>>checkout www.maytech.net/mia
>>for what can be achieved in 23.5 hours (from initial customer call to delivery).
>Did it in 4.5 hrs in Perl :-)
cool, can i have a look?
timj
','f','',62,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
63,'classifier','classifier Project',863,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/classifier/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/classifier/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9634,'Mon Nov 16 9:26:24 1998','small concerns',1,0,'
Will,
I am slightly concerned as to Dan\'s integrity when dealing with Paneris members, as he has so far refused to sign a document saying he will not poach our programmers (specifically you, but also patrick) for direct contracting.
Therefor, can you post up any financial agreements you have come to (so that we have transparancy). We should also agree who will be billing him for your time. Due to him being reticent about the agreement, I am increasingly inclined to bill him myself, although normally I would be perfectly happy to be out of the loop. Let me know what you think?
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9635,'Wed Dec 2 0:02:32 1998','fixed',4,9634,'
sweetness and light all round
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9636,'Wed Dec 2 0:04:37 1998','classifier',20,0,'Posted on behalf of ben by william
William,
Going through your document, I come up with some areas that need
classifying ;-) a bit more.
In 2.2.3, Computational Requirements, you say that for training we just
need to caluclayre n(r) and k(wr), where n(r) is the number of texts
about a work reated as r along axis a, and k(wr) which is the number of
times word ,w, occurs in n(r).
The ambigutiy is this, where you say work, do you mean a single film/TV
program, for if it does this could be a problem, for films, mutlip[le
reviews is bit tricky but can be managed and maybe we could get 5-10
max. For TV programs we are likely to only get one synopses (spelling??)
this would be a problem I think. But, if you mean all reviews classified
as score ,r, on axis \'a\', then this should be less of a problem, as we
can almalgamate everything into one block.
Also how many reviews constitue enough data, to make everything simpler?
In 2.3.1 Plenty of training data
Equation before equation 6,
p(r)=m(r) (_product w) q(wr)^Kw (1-q(wr))^N Kw
Is the last part, (1-q(wr)) to the power N * Kw ? or is the whole thing
multiplied by Kw? or is Kw not meant to be there?
In 2.3.3 Computational Requirements
As we are using VB (hmmm) at the moment, we don\'t have lgamma, there is
GAMMADIST for VC++, but I\'m not willing to learn that just yet, so could
you as stated send an approximation, for the Beta Dist. or the Gamma
Dist, or even Log Gamm Dist. I take it that the lgamma computes log to
the base e?
In 3.1 Least Expected Loss
The equation, E[loss], is the sum, of r:0..10, for each s:0..10, and the
score we give, is the lowest E[loss]. In my way of thinking this is: a
single array of E[loss] scores, one for each value of s. The value in
the array for a given s, is the sum value of E[loss],r:0..10 for that s.
We then choose the score, given by the value of s that is least.
3.2 Setting up the Loss Matrix, is a two dimensional array something
like this:
r 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
s
0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
1 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
2 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
3 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
4 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
5 0
6 0
7 0
8 0
9 0
10 0
Could you also please exlpain the Snaity Checking and \'no idea\' a bit
more.
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9637,'Wed Dec 2 0:05:29 1998','classifier',4,0,'
Benjamin Janes writes:
> In 2.2.3, Computational Requirements, you say that for training we just
> need to caluclayre n(r) and k(wr), where n(r) is the number of texts
> about a work reated as r along axis a, and k(wr) which is the number of
> times word ,w, occurs in n(r).
>
> The ambigutiy is this, where you say work, do you mean a single film/TV
> program,
> But, if you mean all reviews classified as score ,r, on axis \'a\',
> then this should be less of a problem, as we can almalgamate
> everything into one block.
The latter. The `a\' in "... which is the number of texts which are about
some work rated as $r$" could read `some\'. Lump \'em all together.
> Also how many reviews constitue enough data, to make everything simpler?
To get a really good fix on a word occurrence probability q_wr you
need enough examples to see (a) a decent number of occurrences k_wr
and (b) a decent number of non-occurrences n_r - k_wr. If you have
k_wr > 10, that\'ll comfortably be enough, noting that the other
condition n_r - k_wr > 10 is then virtually an automatic consequence
since I guess all words are quite rare and there will be more
non-occurrences than occurrences.
Of course some words will simply be very uncommon in some ratings
and you will never get ten occurrences. In that case you will want to
gather enough non-occurrences to be sure that the probability of
seeing word w in rating r is definitely lower than the probability of
seeing w in other ratings. For instance if k_wr > 10 for some r, but
k_wr\' remained obstinately zero for some other r\' even though n_r\' was
as big as n_r, you would be happy.
How many examples is `enough\' therefore depends slightly on the
frequencies actually observed. Sorry there is no simple answer!
By the way, a fair measure of the uncertainty with which you know
q_wr is 1/k_wr + 1/(n_r - k_wr). That is approximate variance of the
"log odds" of q_wr assuming that k_wr is not very small. It means
that once you have k_wr > maybe 4 or so, you know the odds on the
occurrence of w to within a factor exp(1/k_wr + 1/(n_r - k_wr)). If
you have ten texts in which w occurs and 100 in which it doesn\'t, you
know the odds on seeing w to about 12%.
> In 2.3.1 Plenty of training data
>
> Equation before equation 6,
> p(r)=m(r) (_product w) q(wr)^Kw (1-q(wr))^N Kw
>
> Is the last part, (1-q(wr)) to the power N * Kw ? or is the whole thing
> multiplied by Kw? or is Kw not meant to be there?
Sounds like you\'ve got a printing disaster :-(. It\'s meant to say
N - K_w. The minus sign does show up correctly using acroread on my
computer---are you viewing it on-screen or printed out?
> In 2.3.3 Computational Requirements
>
> As we are using VB (hmmm) at the moment,
no worries, the algorithm we are considering is so minimalist it will
work just fine in VB!
> we don\'t have lgamma, there is
> GAMMADIST for VC++, but I\'m not willing to learn that just yet, so could
> you as stated send an approximation, for the Beta Dist. or the Gamma
> Dist, or even Log Gamm Dist. I take it that the lgamma computes log to
> the base e?
yep, I\'ll look that up for you
> In 3.1 Least Expected Loss
First of all, I\'m not confident that we can reasonably expect the
system to categorise on a 0..10 scale. I think you will have to
collapse the scale onto something like very un- (0..3), quite un-
(3..5), quite (4..7) and very (8..10). See section 2.1.5.
> The equation, E[loss], is the sum, of r:0..10, for each s:0..10, and the
> score we give, is the lowest E[loss]. In my way of thinking this is: a
> single array of E[loss] scores, one for each value of s. The value in
> the array for a given s, is the sum value of E[loss],r:0..10 for
> that s.
For each s, E[loss] given that we choose s is the sum of l_sr *
prob(work is really an r, based on its texts), r:0..10
The prob(...) comes from sec 2.3.1 or 2.3.2
> We then choose the score, given by the value of s that is least.
Exactly (though I don\'t think the array is necessary since you only
need to remember the smallest E[loss] seen so far in the loop over s)
> 3.2 Setting up the Loss Matrix, is a two dimensional array something
> like this:
>
> r 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
> s
> 0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
> 1 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
> 2 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
> 3 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
> 4 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
> 5 0
> 6 0
> 7 0
> 8 0
> 9 0
> 10 0
I guess that would sort of make sense. You are telling the system
that misclassifying a 0 as a 10 is ten times worse than misclassifying
a 0 as a 1, and vice versa (since your matrix is symmetrical). Notes:
o 0..10 is perhaps too many ratings (see above)
o you need to say explicitly how bad it is to give up and say
`no idea\', relative to the possible mistakes
o You can tailor it any way that seems sensible; for instance,
you could give misclassifying "very sexy" as "very unsexy"
a medium badness and misclassifying "very unsexy" as "very
sexy" a huge badness. You don\'t have to do this---you could
just use some uniform rule like you have above---but since this
gives you the opportunity to build some common sense into
the system you might as well take it.
> Could you also please exlpain the Snaity Checking and \'no idea\' a bit
> more.
OK---
Assume (call it assumption M) that (a) the very simple model of
constant word occurrence probabilities is correct, or simply that we
don\'t know enough to make a more sophisticated one; and that (b) the
training data was genuinely representative of the characteristics of
the works/texts that will be presented for classification in the
future.
Then equations (7) and (8) tell you the uniquely correct
probabilities which a rational agent ought to attach to the hypothesis
that the incoming work is an r, for each r. (That\'s what Bayesian
inference does for you---it weighs competing hypotheses in the light
of the evidence and their prior plausibility.)
But what if assumption M is not valid---specifically its (b) part?
Then (7) and (8) don\'t tell us anything useful at all. If the system
is shown a new work which is different from all those it was trained
on, then it will faithfully evaluate the plausibilities of each rating
**given the false assumption M**. What happens in these cases is that
it latches firmly onto the "nearest" matching class; that assignment
looks ridiculous, but typically all the others look astronomically
awful---so paradoxically you get a very confident, but completely
meaningless classification.
The way to get round this is to fix up assumption M to make it
better reflect the reality of the situation. We have to make
available to the system another hypothesis, beyond those that say
for each r "it\'s similar to the r-texts from the training data"---
something which covers the case "it isn\'t similar to any of them".
A good way to do that is to have a hypothesis which says "there is
another rating out there but we have no idea what its word occurrence
probabilities are". Then when the system sees a work whose texts
don\'t fit well with any of the other word occurrence patterns, it can
say "aha, it must be from the rating I don\'t know about". So the
pseudo-rating makes a handy "don\'t know" bin for detecting when
assumption M has broken down.
The remaining question is how to represent a rating whose
probabilities we don\'t know---basically how to represent ignorance.
This is one of the really cool things about Bayesianism, because it
lets us do that by putting a probability distribution on the
parameters q. If we use a rather broad distribution (one which is
not concentrated around a definite value) then we are saying we don\'t
know what q is.
But we have already done this in the case of the real ratings for
which there happen to be few example texts in the training data
(equation (2)). Given that we have to implement the code for working
with that distribution in any case, we might as well reuse it to
handle the "unknown" rating. The "unknown" rating is simply treated
like a normal rating for which we happen to have zero example texts---
which makes sense if you think about it. If you have no example texts
you are ignorant of the word occurrence probabilities. (N.B. as noted
in section 2.4 we can\'t actually let the m_r for "unknown"---the
number of example texts we claim to have seen for it---be zero because
then the system will think "there\'s a rating I don\'t know about but it
never comes up anyway" and never consider it seriously.)
Did you get the bit about the alphas and betas in 2.2 and 2.2.2?
Basically let alpha = .5 and beta = 10.5, or something like that.
By the way, you might be wondering why won\'t it always select the
"don\'t know" rating, since by definition it fits with any word
occurrences? The answer is that Bayesian inference embodies a kind of
Occam\'s razor. If there is a very specific hypothesis which fits the
facts, then it\'s rational to select that one, essentially because it
would be an amazing coincidence if the good fit was purely accidental.
It\'s only if none of the specific hypotheses ("known" ratings) don\'t
fit that the unspecific one ("something else") comes into the picture.
> My phone is 0171 535 8811, if you think I\'m just being think. ;-).
No, I said you may not get all of this and I meant it. I didn\'t
really know what you have seen before and what you haven\'t, so the
alternative was to waste time writing very detailed stuff that was
mostly unnecessary and would only obscure the salient points.
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9638,'Wed Dec 2 0:06:26 1998','classifier',4,0,'
William Chesters writes:
> By the way, a fair measure of the uncertainty with which you know
> q_wr is 1/k_wr + 1/(n_r - k_wr). That is approximate variance of the
> "log odds" of q_wr assuming that k_wr is not very small. It means
> that once you have k_wr > maybe 4 or so, you know the odds on the
> occurrence of w to within a factor exp(1/k_wr + 1/(n_r - k_wr)). If
> you have ten texts in which w occurs and 100 in which it doesn\'t, you
> know the odds on seeing w to about 12%.
This is of course rubbish (have just realised---I thought the 12%
looked a bit low ...). If the variance of the log odds is 0.11 then
its standard deviation is 0.33. If it changes by two standard
deviations then the odds change by a factor of exp(0.66) which is
about 2. So with ten occurrences and 100 non-occurrences, you know
the occurrence odds to within a factor of two or three, and a point
estimate (still) seems reasonable.
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9639,'Wed Dec 2 0:07:10 1998','classifier',4,0,'
William Chesters writes:
> Benjamin Janes writes:
> > we don\'t have lgamma, there is
> > GAMMADIST for VC++, but I\'m not willing to learn that just yet, so could
NB gammadist sounds more like the density function of a gamma
distribution---which is not the right thing
> > you as stated send an approximation, for the Beta Dist. or the Gamma
> > Dist, or even Log Gamm Dist.
> yep, I\'ll look that up for you
Here it is from Numerical Recipes. It is actually very accurate.
But don\'t mess up those magic numbers when you translate it into VB
:-). If you want to check it: you should get
exp(log(gamma(x))) = (x-1)!
, for instance exp(log(gamma(6))) = 5! = 120.
// computes log(gamma(x)) to a close approximation
double lgamma_lanczos(const double x)
{
double y, tmp, ser;
static const double cof[6] = {
76.18009172947146,
-86.50532032941677,
24.01409824083091,
-1.231739572450155,
0.1208650973866179e-2,
-0.5395239384953e-5
};
y = x;
tmp = x + 5.5;
tmp -= (x + 0.5) * log(tmp);
ser = 1.000000000190015;
for (int j = 0; j <= 5; j++) ser += cof[j] / ++y;
return -tmp + log(2.5066282746310005 * ser/x);
}
// computes log(beta(x, y)) to a close approximation
double lbeta_lanczos(const double x, const double y)
{
return lgamma_lanczos(x) + lgamma_lanczos(y) - lgamma_lanczos(x + y);
}
> > I take it that the lgamma computes log to the base e?
er yes, sorry
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9640,'Wed Dec 2 17:09:19 1998','classifier',20,0,'Posted on behalf of ben by william
William,
When generating the new ratings for a new review, is this the process,
as I can\'t quite make it out in your paper.
1) Get text
2) Remove puncutation
3) Stem Words
4) Generate K_w and q_wr for the new text, N_r will be 1, as only one
text
5) generate: p(r|/\_w K_w,N,Q) = ro_r/sum(r\') ro_r\'
ro_r=m_r.product(w):q_wr^K_w(1-q_wr)^(N-K_w)
m_r: number of texts in training data, classified in group g, on axis
\'a\'
q_wr: number generated during training for word:w
K_w: -not sure here-number of times word: w appears in text to rate, or
number of texts word w appears in, in texts being asked to rate. So if
there is only one text being rated, the value is either 1 or 0, in the
text or not in the text.
N: this is the number of texts being rated, will always =1, as only 1
text will be being rated any one time.
Sorry for laboring over this, I jut want to make sure.
Ben
---
Benjamin Anthony Janes (nniol@forager.co.uk)
Principle Software Engineer
Applied Psychology Research
<-- a.k.a. Nniol, Rasputin -->
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9641,'Wed Dec 2 17:23:37 1998','Re: classifier',4,9640,'
Benjamin Janes writes:
> 4) Generate K_w and q_wr for the new text, N_r will be 1, as only one
> text
Yes, if there is really only one text relating to the work to be
classified. (See below.)
> ro_r=m_r.product(w):q_wr^K_w(1-q_wr)^(N-K_w)
Yes, if you have enough training data to make a good point estimate of
q_wr.
> m_r: number of texts in training data, classified in group g, on axis
> \'a\'
No. The number of _works_ in the training data rated as r along axis
a. (Of course if there is only EVER one text per work than that\'s the
same.)
> K_w: -not sure here-number of times word: w appears in text to rate, or
> number of texts word w appears in, in texts being asked to rate. So if
> there is only one text being rated, the value is either 1 or 0, in the
> text or not in the text.
Sorry, that was radically unclear in the glossary at the end (though
OK in the body of the text ... vague excuse? :) ). It\'s the number of
texts in which the word appears, 1 or 0.
There\'s no absolutely compelling reason not to consider word counts as
opposed to mere presences but this is simpler and makes fewer assumptions.
> N: this is the number of texts being rated, will always =1, as only 1
> text will be being rated any one time.
As said above, that is so if when someone gives you a work to rate,
they only ever have one text relating to it to give you.
If you have a film with a synopsis and a review, that is one work, two
texts (N = 2). You cannot split the texts for a work up and treat
them separately.
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9642,'Wed Dec 2 19:40:01 1998','any good?',1,0,'
This any good for you guys?
http://www.teachwithmovies.org/
perhaps for source data or as a sales oppertunity.
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9643,'Wed Dec 2 22:37:50 1998','Re: any good?',4,9642,'Posted on behalf of WilliamC by TimJ
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> This any good for you guys?
>
> http://www.teachwithmovies.org/
>
> perhaps for source data or as a sales oppertunity.
Or just for entertainment. http://www.teachwithmovies.org/rejects.htm
is the funniest thing I have seen on the web for ages.
They think Roxanne "is an adult film"; Doctor Zhivago is borderline.
Henry IV is "not historically accurate", similarly A Man For All
Seasons---and The Ten Commandments!!!!!!!
But here\'s the best bit, about Dangerous Beauty:
Our 12-year-old son happened into the room as we were
evaluating this film and wanted desperately to see it. We
agreed to show the film to him but only if his father could
shield him from the scenes showing sexual encounters. We made
it a game and literally threw a blanket over his head for
certain short portions of the film. He enjoyed the film and
learned a lot about Venice and the oppression of women in
European culture.
They think their opinions are in line with the Anglo-American
"cultural concensus [sic]" but I\'d say their spelling, for a start,
puts them some way outside it.
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9644,'Wed Dec 2 22:53:00 1998','Re: Re: any good?',1,9643,'
LOL
I heard them on R4 Front Row tonight, it was very funny to hear a couple of american cranks being taken seriously by the uk art establishment.
As internet\'s tendrils dig ever deeper into conventional society, we are going to see many more of these strange occurances. Then, the revolution....
I once went to an interview with an online porn site developement company (in notting hill), they were claiming that internet port had caused the (then) recent demise of (i think) penthouse. And that was over 2 years ago. I can\'t remember why i didn\'t get/take the job.
am i rambling?
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9645,'Fri Dec 4 17:20:36 1998','invoices',1,0,'
Dan: invoice for the classifer is up.
Will: I have paid you for this, but don\'t yet have an invoice for the balance of iglu.
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9646,'Fri Dec 4 17:34:33 1998','Re: invoices',4,9645,'
>Dan: invoice for the classifer is up.
>Will: I have paid you for this, but don\'t yet have an invoice for the balance of iglu.
Sorry, the paneris bit me. (I invoiced myself.)
Corrected now.
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9647,'Mon Dec 7 11:32:08 1998','Re: Re: invoices',1,9646,'
>>Dan: invoice for the classifer is up.
>>Will: I have paid you for this, but don\'t yet have an invoice for the balance of iglu.
>Sorry, the paneris bit me. (I invoiced myself.)
>Corrected now.
paid
','f','',63,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
64,'iglu','iglu Project',864,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/iglu/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/iglu/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9648,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Iglu costings',2,0,'
I have costed the various parts of the Iglu web site independently
of TimJ, using broad categories of work. My costings are as follows:
Skeleton site - 3 weeks
Chalet (Search, list, details, shortlist, admin) - 2.5 weeks
Resort ( --"-- ) - 2.5 weeks
Ski Domain (list, details, admin) - 1 weeks
Bookings (add requirement, response,
confirmation, travel pack) - 3 weeks
Fixed Content (ski area/fitness, help, terms - 1 weeks
and conditions, insurance)
Administration (users, bargins, telephone, - 2 weeks
mailing list)
Calendar/Weather - 0.5 weeks
Others (e-mail, javascript, image upload) - 1.5 weeks
------------
680 hours
TimJ\'s roughly comparable estimates are (roughly):
Skeleton site (homepage + design) - 1 week
Chalet - 1.5 weeks
Resort - 1 week
Ski Domain - 0.5 weeks
Bookings - 2 weeks
Fixed content - 1.5 weeks
Administration - 3 weeks
Bulletin Board - 1 week
Calendar/Weather - 0.5 weeks
Others - 0.5 weeks
(Rounding errors) - 1.5 weeks
-----------
560 hours
So, my estimate is 120 hours (3 weeks) over Tims, which is mainly
due to me setting aside 3 weeks rather than 1 for skeleton/graphic
design, and me thinking that handling Chalets and Resorts would
take more time than Tim.
We differ on the estimates of Bookings and Administration (but they
balance out, and Tim\'s probably right) and I think that the bulletin
board will take longer than Tim does. Tim has gone into more detail
about the misc. stuff at the bottom than I have, and so has a larger
figure.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9649,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Re: Iglu costings',2,9648,'
I missed out Bulletin Boards from my bit:
>I have costed the various parts of the Iglu web site independently
>of TimJ, using broad categories of work. My costings are as follows:
>
>Skeleton site - 3 weeks
>Chalet (Search, list, details, shortlist, admin) - 2.5 weeks
>Resort ( --"-- ) - 2.5 weeks
>Ski Domain (list, details, admin) - 1 weeks
>Bookings (add requirement, response,
> confirmation, travel pack) - 3 weeks
>Fixed Content (ski area/fitness, help, terms - 1 weeks
> and conditions, insurance)
Bulletin Boards - 2 weeks
>Administration (users, bargins, telephone, - 2 weeks
> mailing list)
>Calendar/Weather - 0.5 weeks
>Others (e-mail, javascript, image upload) - 1.5 weeks
> ------------
> 680 hours
760 hours
>
>TimJ\'s roughly comparable estimates are (roughly):
>
>Skeleton site (homepage + design) - 1 week
>Chalet - 1.5 weeks
>Resort - 1 week
>Ski Domain - 0.5 weeks
>Bookings - 2 weeks
>Fixed content - 1.5 weeks
>Administration - 3 weeks
>Bulletin Board - 1 week
>Calendar/Weather - 0.5 weeks
>Others - 0.5 weeks
>(Rounding errors) - 1.5 weeks
> -----------
> 560 hours
>
>So, my estimate is 120 hours (3 weeks) over Tims, which is mainly
Acually, 200 hours (5 weeks).
>due to me setting aside 3 weeks rather than 1 for skeleton/graphic
>design, and me thinking that handling Chalets and Resorts would
>take more time than Tim.
>We differ on the estimates of Bookings and Administration (but they
>balance out, and Tim\'s probably right) and I think that the bulletin
>board will take longer than Tim does. Tim has gone into more detail
>about the misc. stuff at the bottom than I have, and so has a larger
>figure.
>Regards,
>Myles
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9650,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Re: Iglu costings',1,9649,'
Chippy,
I have revised my costs to be a compromise between our 2 estimages.
Development costs now total 657 hours (£26280).
I will email them now.
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9651,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Bug Reports',3,0,'
Just a place holder.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9652,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Edit Agents',3,9651,'
The Title box is filled with:
None couldn\'t execute statement: select ID from .....
So I tried to add a title, my machine froze, no
response from iglu,
guess you are working on it.
yours
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9653,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Re: Edit Agents',1,9652,'
>
>The Title box is filled with:
>None couldn\'t execute statement: select ID from .....
>
>So I tried to add a title, my machine froze, no
>response from iglu,
>guess you are working on it.
not exactly a great start, looks like the server went down :(, i\'ll talk to graham.
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9654,'Sun Sep 20 21:19:21 1998','Paneris page no help.',3,0,'
TimJ,
I tried to find what William is talking about, went on to paneris,
found the password, went to the website given, no sign of us,
redirected to http://iglu.com/future.shtml.
I know it may be administrivia, but can we have some links so that
people not directly involved in the project can lurk easily?
yours
timP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9655,'Sun Sep 20 21:23:08 1998','Re: Paneris page no help.',3,9654,'
Oops,
found it, updated page.
yours
TimP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9656,'Sun Sep 20 21:24:48 1998','Re: Paneris page no help.',3,9654,'
Tim,
Can we get Graham to turn directory browsing on on the development machine?
yours
timP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9657,'Mon Sep 21 13:58:19 1998','Re: Re: Paneris page no help.',1,9656,'
>Tim,
>Can we get Graham to turn directory browsing on on the development machine?
Don\'t really want to, what is wrong with FTP?
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9658,'Mon Sep 21 14:01:23 1998','Re: Paneris page no help.',1,9654,'
>TimJ,
>I tried to find what William is talking about, went on to paneris,
>found the password, went to the website given, no sign of us,
>redirected to http://iglu.com/future.shtml.
>I know it may be administrivia, but can we have some links so that
>people not directly involved in the project can lurk easily?
Sure, try going to the development site.
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9659,'Mon Sep 21 14:28:34 1998','Re: Re: Re: Paneris page no help.',3,9657,'
>>Tim,
>>Can we get Graham to turn directory browsing on on the development machine?
>Don\'t really want to,
So what?
Hardly a reason.
>what is wrong with FTP?
I had to look through all my emails (no sensible subject lines),
set up an FTP profile, get the password wrong, as it was different to the site,
go through all my emails again,
give up, rant,
ask Chippy.
Openess, Openess, Openess.
Or if you prefer \'the onus is on the creator of any new element of PanEris to ensure
that there is an explanation of its features \' see rules.
yours
timP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9660,'Mon Sep 28 11:38:10 1998','Error Reporting',1,0,'
This node will be used for error reporting. Please start a new thread for each bug found.
cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9661,'Mon Sep 28 21:37:41 1998','WellCallYou',1,0,'
Wire into database
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9662,'Mon Sep 28 21:38:28 1998','Terms and Conditions',1,0,'
Build page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9663,'Mon Sep 28 21:39:00 1998','Home Page - Action Kruger',1,0,'
Build with graphics
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9664,'Mon Sep 28 21:55:02 1998','About Iglu Page - Action Kruger',1,0,'
Bui;d Page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9665,'Mon Sep 28 21:57:34 1998','Search Results Page Navigation',1,0,'
Needs removing when on first / last page of results set
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9666,'Mon Sep 28 22:03:38 1998','Re: Search Results Page Navigation',1,9665,'
>Needs removing when on first / last page of results set.
Also 11 results gives 3 pages, should ony do 2.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9667,'Mon Sep 28 22:05:20 1998','Re: Re: Search Results Page Navigation',1,9666,'
>>Needs removing when on first / last page of results set.
>Also 11 results gives 3 pages, should ony do 2.
Also need resort name in summary info
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9668,'Mon Sep 28 22:08:25 1998','Ordering',1,0,'
Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned:
a) alphabetically by property name
b) by price
c) other
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9669,'Mon Sep 28 22:10:14 1998','Search Dates',1,0,'
Default to todays date
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9670,'Mon Sep 28 22:12:47 1998','Booking redirection',1,0,'
Get this working after login.
Also get cookies working for group ids
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9671,'Mon Sep 28 22:13:48 1998','Re: Re: Re: Search Results Page Navigation',1,9667,'
>>>Needs removing when on first / last page of results set.
>>Also 11 results gives 3 pages, should ony do 2.
>Also need resort name in summary info
Need page navigation (and refine results) at bottom of page as well
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9672,'Mon Sep 28 22:17:25 1998','Resort Search',1,0,'
Navigation at bottom
Sort out page numbering
Search dropdown should not contain resort, only countries.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9673,'Mon Sep 28 22:21:49 1998','Group Login',1,0,'
Cancel button does not work
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9674,'Mon Sep 28 22:49:41 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Search Results Page Navigation',1,9671,'
>>>>Needs removing when on first / last page of results set.
>>>Also 11 results gives 3 pages, should ony do 2.
>>Also need resort name in summary info
>Need page navigation (and refine results) at bottom of page as well
Also, can we have 5 results per page, and not repeat the last chalet on a page at the top of the next one.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9675,'Mon Sep 28 23:08:12 1998','Comment field can\'t be empty',2,0,'
"Field \'slist_prop.Comments\' can\'t be a zero-length string."
Can we change this. Similarly for SList_Resort.Comments
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9676,'Mon Sep 28 23:24:48 1998','Re: Comment field can\'t be empty',1,9675,'
>"Field \'slist_prop.Comments\' can\'t be a zero-length string."
>Can we change this. Similarly for SList_Resort.Comments
>Myles
Should be done? Please retest
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9677,'Mon Sep 28 23:26:33 1998','Re: Re: Comment field can\'t be empty',1,9676,'
>>"Field \'slist_prop.Comments\' can\'t be a zero-length string."
>>Can we change this. Similarly for SList_Resort.Comments
>>Myles
>
>Should be done? Please retest
Oops, I was confused. In progress
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9678,'Tue Sep 29 9:44:25 1998','Fixed',1,9677,'
>>>"Field \'slist_prop.Comments\' can\'t be a zero-length string."
>>>Can we change this. Similarly for SList_Resort.Comments
>>>Myles
>>
>>Should be done? Please retest
>Oops, I was confused. In progress
Fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9679,'Tue Sep 29 10:26:58 1998','chalet search',1,0,'
search drop downs should be alphabeticaly sorted
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9680,'Tue Sep 29 11:45:39 1998','Required data',2,0,'
At present the Booking Offer script will not list a chalet
on a shortlist if any of the following are not set:
SkiResort, Owner, City or Country
Should these be mandatory?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9681,'Tue Sep 29 12:40:09 1998','Message Board Change',3,0,'
All,
If you get this then the Iglu message board now
gives you the project email list by default.
yours
TimP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9682,'Tue Sep 29 12:51:32 1998','hello',1,0,'
hello
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9683,'Tue Sep 29 12:54:06 1998','Chalet search - price',1,0,'
Chalet Search - fix search by price
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9684,'Tue Sep 29 12:56:52 1998','RadsGroup authority',1,0,'
Wire up booking to Authority, and build in 2nd payment to booking process.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9685,'Tue Sep 29 13:01:29 1998','Re: Required data',20,9680,'
>At present the Booking Offer script will not list a chalet
>on a shortlist if any of the following are not set:
> SkiResort, Owner, City or Country
I\'ll deal with each one in turn
Owner
- For properties, it must have either an Agent \'OR\' an Owner, so neither is mandatory.
Country
- Should be mandatory
City
- Now a text field, so not mandatory (Be in address probably)
SkiResort
- Not mandatory
>Should these be mandatory?
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9686,'Tue Sep 29 13:03:12 1998','Duplicate prices field',20,0,'
When you have time,
When you duplicate a property record, would it be possible to also duplicate the associated prices records aswell.
Ben Janes.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9687,'Tue Sep 29 13:25:36 1998','Re: Re: Required data',2,9685,'
OK. Fixed scripts to take this into account
Myles
>>At present the Booking Offer script will not list a chalet
>>on a shortlist if any of the following are not set:
>> SkiResort, Owner, City or Country
>I\'ll deal with each one in turn
>Owner
>- For properties, it must have either an Agent \'OR\' an Owner, so neither is mandatory.
>Country
>- Should be mandatory
>City
>- Now a text field, so not mandatory (Be in address probably)
>SkiResort
>- Not mandatory
>
>>Should these be mandatory?
>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9688,'Tue Sep 29 13:32:36 1998','shortlists',1,0,'
Remove comments from individual items
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9689,'Tue Sep 29 13:48:39 1998','Comment Date',1,0,'
Change field name of \'Date\' to CommentDate
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9690,'Tue Sep 29 13:50:03 1998','Chalet Comments',1,0,'
These don\'t seem to be appearing
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9691,'Tue Sep 29 13:52:57 1998','Shortlists',1,0,'
Prevent the same challet being added twice
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9692,'Tue Sep 29 13:57:11 1998','Re: shortlists',1,9688,'
>Remove comments from individual items
Actually I think this is OK, but we need to be able to change it.
We need more details on the shortlists and the ability to select prefered chalets / resorts.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9693,'Tue Sep 29 14:00:19 1998','Challet Results',1,0,'
Display Dates correctly in price list
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9694,'Tue Sep 29 14:05:19 1998','Re: Shortlists',1,9691,'
>Prevent the same challet being added twice
Also, can we keep the navigation from the resluts screens so that we can switch back and forth
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9695,'Tue Sep 29 14:07:22 1998','Fixed',1,9687,'
MJC
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9696,'Tue Sep 29 14:14:47 1998','Skiresort to chalet shortlist',1,0,'
The link from ski resort details to challet shortlist doesn\'t work.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9697,'Tue Sep 29 14:15:57 1998','ski domain - challet list',1,0,'
This does not work
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9698,'Tue Sep 29 14:17:48 1998','Re: ski domain - challet list',1,9697,'
>This does not work
neither does the link to the challet shortlist or the resort shortlist
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9699,'Tue Sep 29 14:20:37 1998','Re: Re: ski domain - challet list',1,9698,'
>>This does not work
>neither does the link to the challet shortlist or the resort shortlist
or the link to the resort
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9700,'Tue Sep 29 14:25:09 1998','Re: Resort Search',1,9672,'
>Navigation at bottom
>Sort out page numbering
>Search dropdown should not contain resort, only countries.
Need to get creche facilities and skischool working.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9701,'Tue Sep 29 14:47:27 1998','Straight in to frames',1,0,'
Need script to take people straight to a shortlist with the iglu frames surrounding.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9702,'Tue Sep 29 15:45:32 1998','Re: Bug Reports',23,9651,'
a few bits (did these this morning and had some
trouble contacting paneris - so they might have
been fixed already)
In chalet search
* any search with february in arrival date yields
Error: Not a month: `February\'
* search for price anything other than \'any\' yields
no results
* getting an intermitant
"No field `location\' in form; fields present are "
it seems to happen once but then if you resubmit
the same query it doesnt happen again.
In resort search
* any search with location anything other than any yields
Query SELECT * FROM skiresort WHERE country = 1 AND skiresort = 10:
[-3030] 9; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9703,'Tue Sep 29 17:20:30 1998','Re: Re: Re: Required data',1,9687,'
>>SkiResort
>>- Not mandatory
This is now mandatory, I feel it is to central to the construction of the site for it not to be. When a chalet doen\'t have a resort (some don\'t), one will be made up (the village, or neasest village).
Hope this helps.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9704,'Tue Sep 29 19:38:44 1998','Re: Shortlists',4,9691,'
>Prevent the same challet being added twice
Yep, sorry, I had done this but not put it up.
(It actually just overwrites the previous one.)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9705,'Tue Sep 29 19:43:53 1998','Re: Group Login',2,9673,'
>Cancel button does not work
This is an example of a more general problem involving
javascript:history.go(-1) [ or back(-1) ] and the browser\'s
back button.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9706,'Tue Sep 29 19:44:54 1998','Re: Chalet search - price',4,9683,'
>Chalet Search - fix search by price
There are several points here.
1) with an `any\' group size, it has nothing to go on
in computing the price per person. The default is now
to make it between half and all of the chalet\'s
capacity.
2) all the chalets must have a group size or they
are not picked up by the initial query unless
group size is set to any---all the real data-entered
chalets have a max group size so this is oviously
not a prob
3) see next message!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9707,'Tue Sep 29 20:02:03 1998','Access ODBC and dates',4,9706,'
How the HELL are you supposed to tell it dates in SQL
strings?
try this one in http://194.128.98.18/cgi-bin/administration/posql.pl
SELECT startdate, finishdate
FROM pricing WHERE
property = 8
---plenty of results.
Now try
SELECT startdate, finishdate
FROM pricing WHERE
property = 8
AND startdate > 2000-01-01
---The same hits, none of which are after the millenium.
Conversely
SELECT startdate, finishdate
FROM pricing WHERE
property = 8
AND startdate < 2000-01-01
returns no results. On the other hand nor does
SELECT startdate, finishdate
FROM pricing WHERE
property = 8
AND startdate < 1998-01-01
In the same vein
SELECT startdate, finishdate
FROM pricing WHERE
property = 8
AND startdate = 1999-06-02
"should" return 1 result but doesn\'t
All of which means, clearly, that it is not interpreting
YYYY-MM-DD as a date---even though that is the form it
prints it in. It probably thinks it\'s a subtraction.
So perhaps it wants to see it quoted?
Nope---if you quote it you get
[-3030] 120; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression."
And indeed it will barf on ANYTHING quoted that I can
dream up. In particular it doesn\'t like the obvious
SELECT startdate, finishdate
FROM pricing WHERE
property = 8
AND startdate > "1999-06-02 00:00:00"
I\'ve tried all sorts of things, reversing the date order
to get 02-06-1999, us-style 06-02-1999, using slashes
instead of minuses.
In fact, it seems, incredibly, that it wants to see a
number which is the number of days since 1900. For
instance, try this:
SELECT startdate, finishdate
FROM pricing WHERE
property = 8
AND startdate > 36250
About to go and do some sums and see if thsi theory
is correct ...
Can we PLEASE not use Access ever again? ;-)
It sucks so much that even a microsoft-cynic like
myself is gobsmacked.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9708,'Tue Sep 29 20:15:50 1998','Re: Access ODBC and dates',1,9707,'
Will,
Symperthies, I also would be very interested in the answer. I have never managed to get it to work eithier, you days theory sounds a class one (although remember 1981 is a M$ favorite as well). Let me know if you need a hand, and I will investigate as well.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9709,'Tue Sep 29 20:20:27 1998','Re: Re: Group Login',1,9705,'
>>Cancel button does not work
>This is an example of a more general problem involving
>javascript:history.go(-1) [ or back(-1) ] and the browser\'s
>back button.
Actually its more of a javascript error, IE does not like back(-1), please use javascript:history.go(-1) throughout the site
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9710,'Tue Sep 29 20:32:21 1998','Re: Re: Re: Group Login',2,9709,'
>>>Cancel button does not work
>>This is an example of a more general problem involving
>>javascript:history.go(-1) [ or back(-1) ] and the browser\'s
>>back button.
>Actually its more of a javascript error, IE does not like back(-1), please use javascript:history.go(-1) throughout the site
There are still problems in Netscape with this. Needs some research.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9711,'Tue Sep 29 20:50:31 1998','booking system',1,0,'
Dates need formatting to dd/mm/yyyy (both display and input)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9712,'Tue Sep 29 20:56:25 1998','new booking',1,0,'
When going back to correct errors, we should keep the valuse that have been entered in the input boxes (valid or invalid).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9713,'Tue Sep 29 21:01:48 1998','Access ODBC and dates solved',4,9708,'
OK, it turns out that for >= date comparison with, for
instance, 2000-04-05 00:00:00, you have to use a number
which is the number of days between midnight at the start
of january 1, 1900, and midnight at the start of 5th
April 2000, plus two. Yes, I know this makes the epoch
30th December 1899. Perhaps that\'s when Bill\'s great-
grandfather was born or something ...
I can munge this into the search alright.
Apologies for not spotting the problem myself ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9714,'Tue Sep 29 21:01:58 1998','remove people from booking',1,0,'
need to allow removal of perple other than the last one
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9715,'Tue Sep 29 21:02:39 1998','Fixed',1,9661,'
>Wire into database
for phase 1 this just generates an email
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9716,'Tue Sep 29 21:02:53 1998','Re: Access ODBC and dates solved',4,9713,'
Should point out, I do know about leap years and that
1900 was not while 2000 will be.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9717,'Tue Sep 29 21:09:47 1998','Re: Access ODBC and dates solved',1,9713,'
Ha,
you might like this better, but:
SELECT Pricing.StartDate
FROM Pricing
WHERE (((Pricing.StartDate)>#1/1/98#));
appears to work!
Try it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9718,'Tue Sep 29 21:21:29 1998','ski school cost, ski pass cost',1,0,'
These are not being recorded by the booking response.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9719,'Tue Sep 29 21:22:08 1998','customer confirm booking',1,0,'
get error:
Query `UPDATE Booking SET Flying = 1,
Transfer = 1, Insurance = 1,
Skipass = 1, SkiSchool = 1, Linen = 1,
Comment = \'adsdsadsa\',
WHERE id = 9\': [-3503] 1855; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in UPDATE statement."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9720,'Tue Sep 29 22:07:57 1998','forward shortlists',1,0,'
Need to be able to forward shortlists (both resort and properties)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9721,'Tue Sep 29 22:10:36 1998','group name',1,0,'
Where do I enter group names?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9722,'Tue Sep 29 22:15:39 1998','customers',1,0,'
need to generate customer numbers anddate of creation
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9723,'Tue Sep 29 22:19:00 1998','published status',1,0,'
The spec states that Properties, Resorts and Domains will have a published status. There is no such database field at present. Do we need one?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9724,'Tue Sep 29 23:44:40 1998','Re: remove people from booking',3,9714,'
>need to allow removal of people other than the last one
Really? That\'s not clear to me. Certainly easier, though.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9725,'Wed Sep 30 9:01:58 1998','Fixed',1,9719,'
>get error:
>Query `UPDATE Booking SET Flying = 1,
>Transfer = 1, Insurance = 1,
>Skipass = 1, SkiSchool = 1, Linen = 1,
>Comment = \'adsdsadsa\',
>WHERE id = 9\': [-3503] 1855; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in UPDATE statement."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9726,'Wed Sep 30 9:05:58 1998','credit card confirm',1,0,'
Query `UPDATE Booking
SET BookingStatus = 4, DepMode = 2, BookMode = 3, BookDate = \'1998-9-30\'
BalanceStatus = 2
WHERE id = 9\': [-3100] 1911; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression \'\'1998-9-30\'
BalanceStatus = 2\'."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9727,'Wed Sep 30 9:09:48 1998','Fixed',1,9726,'
>Query `UPDATE Booking
>SET BookingStatus = 4, DepMode = 2, BookMode = 3, BookDate = \'1998-9-30\'
>BalanceStatus = 2
>WHERE id = 9\': [-3100] 1911; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression \'\'1998-9-30\'
>BalanceStatus = 2\'."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9728,'Wed Sep 30 10:05:06 1998','Re: booking system',1,9711,'
>Dates need formatting to dd/mm/yyyy (both display and input)
Nearly done, we have requested the server store dates in UK format to complete this fix.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9729,'Wed Sep 30 10:14:18 1998','fixed',4,9683,'
well, probably! ;-)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9730,'Wed Sep 30 10:18:55 1998','fixed',4,9679,'
>search drop downs should be alphabeticaly sorted
sorted (groan)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9731,'Wed Sep 30 10:20:28 1998','fixed',4,9704,'
>>Prevent the same challet being added twice
>Yep, sorry, I had done this but not put it up.
>(It actually just overwrites the previous one.)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9732,'Wed Sep 30 10:22:05 1998','fixed',4,9702,'
is
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9733,'Wed Sep 30 10:38:31 1998','Re: Challet Results',4,9693,'
>Display Dates correctly in price list
fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9734,'Wed Sep 30 10:41:07 1998','Search by Price',1,0,'
Testing price of property `Alaska\' (id = `3\')Price unit `per chalet per week\' is not of the form`per/for person/chalet per/for (two/three) week(s)\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9735,'Wed Sep 30 10:42:17 1998','intermittent search error',23,0,'
Im definitely getting an intermittent error on chalet search.
Sometimes I get
"No field `location\' in form; fields present are"
(with nothing in the \'fields present\' list)
and other times the same search works.
???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9736,'Wed Sep 30 10:44:56 1998','Re: Ordering',1,9668,'
>Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned:
>a) alphabetically by property name
>b) by price
>c) other
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9737,'Wed Sep 30 10:59:42 1998','FIXED',2,9670,'
>Get this working after login.
>Also get cookies working for group ids
Done (does MSIE choke on a content-type line after
getting a HTTP Location line?)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9738,'Wed Sep 30 11:01:21 1998','Fixed',1,9736,'
>>Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned:
>>a) alphabetically by property name
>>b) by price
>>c) other
Actually rekeyed to include APR distribution
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9739,'Wed Sep 30 11:01:47 1998','Ordering of results',1,0,'
Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned:
a) alphabetically by property name
b) by price
c) other
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9740,'Wed Sep 30 11:04:09 1998','Re: Re: Challet Results',1,9733,'
>>Display Dates correctly in price list
>fixed
Should be dd/mm/yyyy.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9741,'Wed Sep 30 11:17:42 1998','FIXED',1,9737,'
>>Get this working after login.
>>Also get cookies working for group ids
>Done (does MSIE choke on a content-type line after
>getting a HTTP Location line?)
MSIE working great online (I just have a problem locally), consider this FIXED
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9742,'Wed Sep 30 11:21:24 1998','Customer Number',1,0,'
>>it will be:
>>
>>xxaaaayyb
>>
>change to byyaaaxxxx
>b= Alpahabet char
>yy = count 1-99
>aaa - first fours chars of surname
>xxxx = year of creation, 1998 etc.
Ben,
I feel that it should infact be:
yyyyaaaannb
yyyy = year of creation, 1998 etc.
aaaa - first fours chars of surname
b = Alpahabet char
nn = count 1-99
as this will put things in a better default sort order
Thoughts?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9743,'Wed Sep 30 11:22:51 1998','add to shortlist',23,0,'
the add to shortlist link on the chalet details page yields
"unable to find file or directory cgi-bin/search/ChaletShortlistAdd.pl"
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9744,'Wed Sep 30 11:33:02 1998','maximum group size for property',1,0,'
Ben,
can we make this a mandatory field as if it is not present it will throw the search by price out completely. All \'real\' data entered so far has a maximum group size.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9745,'Wed Sep 30 11:36:36 1998','booking page',1,0,'
can we have a link from the chalet name on the booking page to the chalet details
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9746,'Wed Sep 30 11:40:17 1998','Re: add to shortlist',1,9743,'
>the add to shortlist link on the chalet details page yields
>"unable to find file or directory cgi-bin/search/ChaletShortlistAdd.pl"
Works fine for me (TimJ), can you reproduce this or let me know which chalet?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9747,'Wed Sep 30 11:42:15 1998','Add to shortlist',1,0,'
Can we get rid of the screen where we type in the comments, and take the user straight to the shortlist to enter the comments (and select preferable properties).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9748,'Wed Sep 30 11:44:39 1998','FIXED',2,9718,'
(SkiSchoolCost & SkiPass Cost)
>These are not being recorded by the booking response.
SkiSchool cost now works. We need to discus how the ski
passes work at a later date.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9749,'Wed Sep 30 11:48:01 1998','Re: intermittent search error',4,9735,'
>Im definitely getting an intermittent error on chalet search.
> Sometimes I get
>"No field `location\' in form; fields present are"
>(with nothing in the \'fields present\' list)
>and other times the same search works.
>???
Don\'t like the sound of this ...
can you give details of what browser, circumstances,
etc. in case something rings a bell?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9750,'Wed Sep 30 11:49:30 1998','Re: Re: Re: Challet Results',4,9740,'
>>>Display Dates correctly in price list
>>fixed
>Should be dd/mm/yyyy.
I thought you were going to fix up Access to output
European-format dates? Otherwise no problem, I can
change \'em round.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9751,'Wed Sep 30 11:53:56 1998','Re: Ordering of results',4,9739,'
>Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned:
>a) alphabetically by property name
>b) by price
>c) other
I\'m ordering by property/resort name now. Price would be
not as meaningful as it sounds because of the variation
in group size, but would be possible.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9752,'Wed Sep 30 11:55:26 1998','fixed',4,9734,'
>Testing price of property `Alaska\' (id = `3\')Price unit `per chalet per week\' is not of the form`per/for person/chalet per/for (two/three) week(s)\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9753,'Wed Sep 30 11:56:55 1998','wrong results; Re: Search by Price',4,9734,'
alaska comes out too cheap (thanks tim)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9754,'Wed Sep 30 11:56:59 1998','price search',1,0,'
My chalet (Alaska) is priced at £2000 per person per week and sleeps 10, and I am searching for chalets for less than £400 (no group size). Alaska is being selected by the search. I don\'t think it should be.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9755,'Wed Sep 30 11:57:24 1998','fixed',4,9753,'
>alaska comes out too cheap (thanks tim)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9756,'Wed Sep 30 12:02:45 1998','fixed (all)',4,9674,'
>>>>Also 11 results gives 3 pages, should ony do 2.
no, think about it :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9757,'Wed Sep 30 12:05:08 1998','Your Booking produces \'no output\'',20,0,'
When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this:
\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output
Ben Janes
Nniol the Insanes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9758,'Wed Sep 30 12:06:46 1998','not any more (fixed, see below)',4,9754,'
>My chalet (Alaska) is priced at £2000 per person per week and sleeps 10, and I am searching for chalets for less than £400 (no group size). Alaska is being selected by the search. I don\'t think it should be.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9759,'Wed Sep 30 12:09:09 1998','backing',4,9710,'
>>>>Cancel button does not work
>>>This is an example of a more general problem involving
>>>javascript:history.go(-1) [ or back(-1) ] and the browser\'s
>>>back button.
>>Actually its more of a javascript error, IE does not like back(-1), please use javascript:history.go(-1) throughout the site
>There are still problems in Netscape with this. Needs some research.
Is there an upshot? It\'s a nice thing to use since
simple to code (!), quick to work, doesn\'t complicate user\'s
browser history, etc.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9760,'Wed Sep 30 12:29:21 1998','Re: Re: add to shortlist',1,9746,'
>>the add to shortlist link on the chalet details page yields
>>"unable to find file or directory cgi-bin/search/ChaletShortlistAdd.pl"
>Works fine for me (TimJ), can you reproduce this or let me know which chalet?
Baffled, can we ensure we use absolute URLs (this would appear to fix the problem)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9761,'Wed Sep 30 12:33:20 1998','Re: FIXED',1,9748,'
>(SkiSchoolCost & SkiPass Cost)
>>These are not being recorded by the booking response.
>SkiSchool cost now works. We need to discus how the ski
>passes work at a later date.
Ski pass cost now works, ski school cost now records the ski pass cost entered
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9762,'Wed Sep 30 12:35:08 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Challet Results',1,9750,'
>>>>Display Dates correctly in price list
>>>fixed
>>Should be dd/mm/yyyy.
>I thought you were going to fix up Access to output
>European-format dates? Otherwise no problem, I can
>change \'em round.
all changing the date formt does is change from
yyyy/dd/mm to yyyy/mm/dd, you still have to switch things round yourself
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9763,'Wed Sep 30 12:37:36 1998','Re: maximum group size for property',20,9744,'
>Ben,
>can we make this a mandatory field as if it is not present it will throw the search by price out completely. All \'real\' data entered so far has a maximum group size.
This is fine by me
Ben Janes
Nniol the Insane
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9764,'Wed Sep 30 12:38:11 1998','Re: Customer Number',20,9742,'
>>>it will be:
>>>
>>>xxaaaayyb
>>>
>>change to byyaaaxxxx
>>b= Alpahabet char
>>yy = count 1-99
>>aaa - first fours chars of surname
>>xxxx = year of creation, 1998 etc.
>Ben,
>I feel that it should infact be:
>yyyyaaaannb
>yyyy = year of creation, 1998 etc.
>aaaa - first fours chars of surname
>b = Alpahabet char
>nn = count 1-99
>as this will put things in a better default sort order
>Thoughts?
This is fine
Ben Janes
Nniol the Insane
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9765,'Wed Sep 30 12:40:51 1998','Short lists again',20,0,'
I just did a chalet search and added it to my short list,
but, when I saw my short list, I only had that one chalet on the short list, not the other two I had previously added to it.
It did not prompt me for a group login etc.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9766,'Wed Sep 30 12:50:59 1998','Re: Your Booking produces \'no output\'',1,9757,'
>When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this:
>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output
Works for me, together with Johns problem, I am a little concerned. Does it fail every time?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9767,'Wed Sep 30 12:52:53 1998','FIXED',1,9763,'
>>Ben,
>>can we make this a mandatory field as if it is not present it will throw the search by price out completely. All \'real\' data entered so far has a maximum group size.
>This is fine by me
>Ben Janes
>Nniol the Insane
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9768,'Wed Sep 30 12:53:47 1998','Re: Re: intermittent search error',23,9749,'
Im using netscape 4
Im also having trouble recreating the error - but it really was happening - honest.
heres the progression of events:
hit the search button
returns error
hit the back button
hit the search button
returns error
hit the back button
hit the search button
performs search no problem
is it possibly caused by somebody simultainiously uploading a fix??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9769,'Wed Sep 30 12:54:38 1998','Re: Re: Your Booking produces \'no output\'',20,9766,'
>>When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this:
>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output
>Works for me, together with Johns problem, I am a little concerned. Does it fail every time?
It worked the time I clicked it, after I had created what appeared to be anothe Short List
See \'Short Lists again\'for a better descrip.
Ben
Nniol the Insane
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9770,'Wed Sep 30 12:57:31 1998','Re: Short lists again',1,9765,'
>I just did a chalet search and added it to my short list,
>but, when I saw my short list, I only had that one chalet on the short list, not the other two I had previously added to it.
>It did not prompt me for a group login etc.
I think you started another shortlist (your original login was test, now it is nniol? Try logging in as test.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9771,'Wed Sep 30 13:05:14 1998','FIXED',2,9724,'
>>need to allow removal of people other than the last one
>Really? That\'s not clear to me. Certainly easier, though.
Certainly wasn\'t easier to do :-)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9772,'Wed Sep 30 13:09:13 1998','Re: Re: Re: Your Booking produces \'no output\'',1,9769,'
>>>When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this:
>>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output
>>Works for me, together with Johns problem, I am a little concerned. Does it fail every time?
>It worked the time I clicked it, after I had created what appeared to be anothe Short List
>See \'Short Lists again\'for a better descrip.
I think we can put this down to a temporarily broken script (we are developing on these as you test, so this will happen occasionaly - but still worth flagging up :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9773,'Wed Sep 30 13:10:11 1998','Re: Re: intermittent search error',23,9749,'
ps
it is still happenning
try a chalet search with everything default except
accommodation type = chalet
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9774,'Wed Sep 30 13:13:13 1998','not fixed - search summary results',1,9756,'
>>Also need resort name in summary info
Not present
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9775,'Wed Sep 30 13:16:15 1998','FIXED',2,9745,'
>can we have a link from the chalet name on the booking page to the chalet details
Done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9776,'Wed Sep 30 13:22:11 1998','FIXED',2,9757,'
>When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this:
>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output
>Ben Janes
>Nniol the Insanes
The script didn\'t work for a bit, but does now. Unless it
happens again, I consider this fixed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9777,'Wed Sep 30 13:23:23 1998','Re: Re: Re: intermittent search error',1,9768,'
I still can\'t reproduce, IE4 or NS4?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9778,'Wed Sep 30 13:27:06 1998','Problem entering Data (IE4 / Netscape)',20,0,'
All,
We have a problem,
Clara, is entering SkiResort Information and when she tries to enter data into the Creche field, with netscape she can\'t enter at all, script error:
Cant \'insert ,, into fields() values()\' or something like that.
In IE4, it inserts text fine, but only upto a specific number of chacacters.
Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9779,'Wed Sep 30 13:28:45 1998','FIXED',2,9728,'
>>Dates need formatting to dd/mm/yyyy (both display and input)
>Nearly done, we have requested the server store dates in UK format to complete this fix.
Server and all scripts changed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9780,'Wed Sep 30 13:32:47 1998','Re: new booking',2,9712,'
>When going back to correct errors, we should keep the valuse that have been entered in the input boxes (valid or invalid).
Works fine for me (Netscape 4.0) and the javascript link
works.
Anyone else having trouble?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9781,'Wed Sep 30 13:48:45 1998','graphics up (reload index_old.html)',1,0,'
hi
have just uploaded all on server at
www.iglu.com/html/index.html
still need to sort out the following:
1. pixel difference between NS and msie on toolbar
2. meta refresh tag doesnt work, f*ck knows why
3. minimizing browser does strange things
4. havent checked how it all looks on msie3 yet
5. still need to animate logo
krugs
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9782,'Wed Sep 30 13:50:05 1998','Re: graphics up (reload index_old.html)',1,9781,'
I think we need to allow for more width and height, using the full browser area.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9783,'Wed Sep 30 14:07:36 1998','Re: Problem entering Data (IE4 / Netscape)',1,9778,'
This appears to be a POST problem, limiting the amount of data that can be sent. It is very reproducable (try adding more information to creche facilitys for property 34). Anyone heard of anything like this?
This best I can suggest is that we make the pages smaller (but not today)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9784,'Wed Sep 30 14:09:13 1998','call management',23,0,'
when you hit \'call management\' from database administration you get
\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\call.pl\' script produced no output
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9785,'Wed Sep 30 14:34:10 1998','Re: call management',1,9784,'
>when you hit \'call management\' from database administration you get
>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\call.pl\' script produced no output
Call management is not a phase 1 deliverable, we will be doing it later. Link removed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9786,'Wed Sep 30 14:40:16 1998','FIXED',1,9785,'
>>when you hit \'call management\' from database administration you get
>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\call.pl\' script produced no output
>Call management is not a phase 1 deliverable, we will be doing it later. Link removed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9787,'Wed Sep 30 14:40:52 1998','FIXED',1,9772,'
>>>>When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this:
>>>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output
>>>Works for me, together with Johns problem, I am a little concerned. Does it fail every time?
>>It worked the time I clicked it, after I had created what appeared to be anothe Short List
>>See \'Short Lists again\'for a better descrip.
>I think we can put this down to a temporarily broken script (we are developing on these as you test, so this will happen occasionaly - but still worth flagging up :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9788,'Wed Sep 30 14:57:11 1998','FIXED',1,9751,'
>>Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned:
>>a) alphabetically by property name
>>b) by price
>>c) other
>I\'m ordering by property/resort name now. Price would be
>not as meaningful as it sounds because of the variation
>in group size, but would be possible.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9789,'Wed Sep 30 15:05:35 1998','FIXED',1,9716,'
>Should point out, I do know about leap years and that
>1900 was not while 2000 will be.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9790,'Wed Sep 30 15:06:05 1998','FIXED',1,9663,'
>Build with graphics
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9791,'Wed Sep 30 15:06:55 1998','FIXED',1,9664,'
>Bui;d Page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9792,'Wed Sep 30 15:10:53 1998','FIXED',1,9774,'
>>>Also need resort name in summary info
>Not present
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9793,'Wed Sep 30 16:39:13 1998','Per room per night',1,0,'
Testing price of property `Alaska\' (id = `3\')Price unit `per room per night\' is not of the form`per/for person/chalet per/for (two/three) week(s)\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9794,'Wed Sep 30 17:32:23 1998','Re: Re: Resort Search',1,9700,'
>Need to get creche facilities and skischool working.
Still outstanding
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9795,'Wed Sep 30 17:35:06 1998','FIXED',1,9759,'
>>>>>Cancel button does not work
>>>>This is an example of a more general problem involving
>>>>javascript:history.go(-1) [ or back(-1) ] and the browser\'s
>>>>back button.
>>>Actually its more of a javascript error, IE does not like back(-1), please use javascript:history.go(-1) throughout the site
>>There are still problems in Netscape with this. Needs some research.
>Is there an upshot? It\'s a nice thing to use since
>simple to code (!), quick to work, doesn\'t complicate user\'s
>browser history, etc.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9796,'Wed Sep 30 17:39:43 1998','FIXED',1,9762,'
>>>>>Display Dates correctly in price list
>>>>fixed
>>>Should be dd/mm/yyyy.
>>I thought you were going to fix up Access to output
>>European-format dates? Otherwise no problem, I can
>>change \'em round.
>all changing the date formt does is change from
>yyyy/dd/mm to yyyy/mm/dd, you still have to switch things round yourself
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9797,'Wed Sep 30 17:40:56 1998','Re: Skiresort to chalet shortlist',1,9696,'
>The link from ski resort details to challet shortlist doesn\'t work.
This should read:
The link from ski resort details to challet details work.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9798,'Wed Sep 30 17:46:40 1998','Re: Re: new booking',1,9780,'
>>When going back to correct errors, we should keep the valuse that have been entered in the input boxes (valid or invalid).
>Works fine for me (Netscape 4.0) and the javascript link
>works.
>Anyone else having trouble?
The problem here is actulally netscape not behaving.
On a javascript back, I would expect the browser to check the server to see if the page has changed. As the page is generated, I would expect the browser to rerequest it. IE does this, and concequentally resets all fields. Netscape just pics the page up from the cache (wrong) and therefor shows the fields in error (correct). The way round this is to populate the fields with the form variables if we have "gone back" to the form.
The best way to do this is probably to pass the form instead of the record to template expansion. William will look into this, if successful, chippy can change the back functionality.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9799,'Wed Sep 30 17:48:19 1998','FIXED',1,9770,'
>>I just did a chalet search and added it to my short list,
>>but, when I saw my short list, I only had that one chalet on the short list, not the other two I had previously added to it.
>>It did not prompt me for a group login etc.
>I think you started another shortlist (your original login was test, now it is nniol? Try logging in as test.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9800,'Wed Sep 30 17:52:49 1998','Re: Re: Re: new booking',2,9798,'
>>>When going back to correct errors, we should keep the valuse that have been entered in the input boxes (valid or invalid).
>>Works fine for me (Netscape 4.0) and the javascript link
>>works.
>>Anyone else having trouble?
>The problem here is actulally netscape not behaving.
>On a javascript back, I would expect the browser to check the server
Depending on user\'s preferences. I have "check once per session" set,
but if you have "check every time" it will loose variables. There
is therefore a quick fix - get Iglu to change browser settings.
Myles
> to see if the page has changed. As the page is generated, I would expect the browser to rerequest it. IE does this, and concequentally resets all fields. Netscape just pics the page up from the cache (wrong) and therefor shows the fields in error (correct). The way round this is to populate the fields with the form variables if we have "gone back" to the form.
>The best way to do this is probably to pass the form instead of the record to template expansion. William will look into this, if successful, chippy can change the back functionality.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9801,'Wed Sep 30 18:00:47 1998','FIXED',1,9800,'
>Depending on user\'s preferences. I have "check once per session" set,
>but if you have "check every time" it will loose variables. There
>is therefore a quick fix - get Iglu to change browser settings.
Stupid me.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9802,'Wed Sep 30 22:56:40 1998','FIXED',1,9701,'
>Need script to take people straight to a shortlist with the iglu frames surrounding.
Fixed, also changed email template to reference correct script (needs moving out of /administration) when we reorganise.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9803,'Wed Sep 30 23:22:14 1998','fixed',4,9793,'
>Testing price of property `Alaska\' (id = `3\')Price unit `per room per night\' is not of the form`per/for person/chalet per/for (two/three) week(s)\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9804,'Wed Sep 30 23:22:55 1998','fixed',4,9747,'
>Can we get rid of the screen where we type in the comments, and take the user straight to the shortlist to enter the comments (and select preferable properties).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9805,'Wed Sep 30 23:23:27 1998','fixed',4,9747,'
>Can we get rid of the screen where we type in the comments, and take the user straight to the shortlist to enter the comments (and select preferable properties).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9806,'Wed Sep 30 23:25:00 1998','how about now?',4,9760,'
>>>the add to shortlist link on the chalet details page yields
>>>"unable to find file or directory cgi-bin/search/ChaletShortlistAdd.pl"
>>Works fine for me (TimJ), can you reproduce this or let me know which chalet?
>Baffled, can we ensure we use absolute URLs (this would appear to fix the problem)
The URLs are absolute now---tell me if it happens again.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9807,'Wed Sep 30 23:26:33 1998','action timj or someone',4,9764,'
>>I feel that it should infact be:
>>yyyyaaaannb
>>yyyy = year of creation, 1998 etc.
>>aaaa - first fours chars of surname
>>b = Alpahabet char
>>nn = count 1-99
>>as this will put things in a better default sort order
>>Thoughts?
>This is fine
>Ben Janes
>Nniol the Insane
.... and it\'s implemented but fails with an error because
the field in question is an int!!!!!!!!!
Can someone change it to a char(11) (I think 11 is right)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9808,'Wed Sep 30 23:27:37 1998','fixed',4,9699,'
>>>This does not work
>>neither does the link to the challet shortlist or the resort shortlist
>or the link to the resort
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9809,'Wed Sep 30 23:31:33 1998','Re: forward shortlists',4,9720,'
>Need to be able to forward shortlists (both resort and properties)
It\'s in place but doesn\'t seem to actually send the mail---
I just have to struggle with sendmail a bit.
What I\'ve done is have it email the group username
and password. Otherwise it must either (a) allow
password-free access to the booking or (b) create
a temp file, as implied in the Site Structure doc,
which i gather timj is against ...
Oh, I\'ve only done the chalet shortlist forwarding.
Do we really want both? What if we forward both at
once, would be more convenient for users?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9810,'Wed Sep 30 23:32:40 1998','fixed',4,9694,'
>>Prevent the same challet being added twice
>Also, can we keep the navigation from the resluts screens so that we can switch back and forth
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9811,'Wed Sep 30 23:33:21 1998','fixed',4,9692,'
>>Remove comments from individual items
>Actually I think this is OK, but we need to be able to change it.
>We need more details on the shortlists and the ability to select prefered chalets / resorts.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9812,'Wed Sep 30 23:35:02 1998','Re: maximum group size for property',4,9744,'
>Ben,
>can we make this a mandatory field as if it is not present it will throw the search by price out completely. All \'real\' data entered so far has a maximum group size.
by the way the same goes for number of rooms (nobed)
---any chalet priced per room per night/week will
cause an error if it doesn\'t have a nobed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9813,'Wed Sep 30 23:44:33 1998','FIXED',1,9783,'
>This appears to be a POST problem, limiting the amount of data that can be sent. It is very reproducable (try adding more information to creche facilitys for property 34). Anyone heard of anything like this?
TIMJ IS A BIT OF A WALLY
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9814,'Wed Sep 30 23:55:26 1998','fixed (chalet shortlist)',4,9809,'
>>Need to be able to forward shortlists (both resort and properties)
>It\'s in place but doesn\'t seem to actually send the mail---
>I just have to struggle with sendmail a bit.
>What I\'ve done is have it email the group username
>and password. Otherwise it must either (a) allow
>password-free access to the booking or (b) create
>a temp file, as implied in the Site Structure doc,
>which i gather timj is against ...
>Oh, I\'ve only done the chalet shortlist forwarding.
>Do we really want both? What if we forward both at
>once, would be more convenient for users?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9815,'Thu Oct 1 9:12:06 1998','shortlist',1,0,'
Need link from chalet/resort shortlist to chalet/resort details.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9816,'Thu Oct 1 9:21:41 1998','Re: fixed (chalet shortlist)',1,9814,'
>>It\'s in place but doesn\'t seem to actually send the mail---
>>I just have to struggle with sendmail a bit.
I am getting the mail sent to me, what problems have you had with sendmail? Chippy had a little problem setting the paths (we need to pull these libraries together).
>>What I\'ve done is have it email the group username
>>and password. Otherwise it must either (a) allow
>>password-free access to the booking or (b) create
>>a temp file, as implied in the Site Structure doc,
>>which i gather timj is against ...
this makes perfect sense.
>>Oh, I\'ve only done the chalet shortlist forwarding.
>>Do we really want both? What if we forward both at
>>once, would be more convenient for users?
No, I think we should keep it seperate, and we do need resort forwarding.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9817,'Thu Oct 1 9:26:54 1998','add to shortlist',1,0,'
When called from chalet details page, we still get a comment box, and then the error:
Query DELETE FROM slist_prop WHERE grpid = 9 AND propid = Add:[-3010] 1242; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9818,'Thu Oct 1 9:29:05 1998','details pages',1,0,'
Need to think about use of frames (probably remove them)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9819,'Thu Oct 1 9:32:30 1998','FIXED',1,9797,'
>>The link from ski resort details to challet shortlist doesn\'t work.
>This should read:
>The link from ski resort details to challet details work.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9820,'Thu Oct 1 9:33:10 1998','Re: hello',1,9682,'
FIXED
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9821,'Thu Oct 1 9:33:34 1998','FIXED',1,9820,'
Sorry
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9822,'Thu Oct 1 9:34:19 1998','add to shortlist',23,0,'
add to shortlist from within a chalet details page yields
Error
Query DELETE FROM slist_prop WHERE grpid = 23 AND propid = Add:
[-3010] 1253; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1."
but it works fine from the results page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9823,'Thu Oct 1 9:35:02 1998','FIXED',1,9669,'
>Default to todays date
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9824,'Thu Oct 1 9:35:40 1998','FIXED',1,9660,'
>This node will be used for error reporting. Please start a new thread for each bug found.
>cheers
>TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9825,'Thu Oct 1 9:40:22 1998','Re: Re: fixed (chalet shortlist)',4,9816,'
>I am getting the mail sent to me, what problems have you had with sendmail? Chippy had a little problem setting the paths (we need to pull these libraries together).
nonono it\'s fine, it just wanted subdirectories called
email creating
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9826,'Thu Oct 1 9:44:43 1998','fixed',4,9817,'
>When called from chalet details page, we still get a comment box, and then the error:
>Query DELETE FROM slist_prop WHERE grpid = 9 AND propid = Add:[-3010] 1242; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1."
sorry
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9827,'Thu Oct 1 9:45:16 1998','Re: add to shortlist',4,9822,'
>add to shortlist from within a chalet details page yields
>Error
>Query DELETE FROM slist_prop WHERE grpid = 23 AND propid = Add:
>[-3010] 1253; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1."
>but it works fine from the results page
fixed, sorry
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9828,'Thu Oct 1 9:47:27 1998','fixed',4,9827,'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9829,'Thu Oct 1 9:52:14 1998','fixed',4,9815,'
>Need link from chalet/resort shortlist to chalet/resort details.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9830,'Thu Oct 1 9:52:33 1998','fixed (tim)',1,9828,'
Will, you are up early. I have also just fixed this, can you check that together we have not bodged it I only made changes to Details_Property_Details.html
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9831,'Thu Oct 1 9:55:03 1998','Re: fixed (tim)',4,9830,'
>Will, you are up early. I have also just fixed this, can you check that together we have not bodged it I only made changes to Details_Property_Details.html
not really, it\'s 10:53 here :)
I just overwrote yours, hope it wasn\'t better ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9832,'Thu Oct 1 10:20:09 1998','FIXED',23,9806,'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9833,'Thu Oct 1 10:31:13 1998','if was a problem, probably fixed',4,9690,'
>These don\'t seem to be appearing
We can\'t actually enter any comments at the moment
because the db is locked but it works for me at
home.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9834,'Thu Oct 1 10:51:46 1998','fixed, both chalet and resort (but tested only at home since iglu.com not there)',4,9825,'
>>I am getting the mail sent to me, what problems have you had with sendmail? Chippy had a little problem setting the paths (we need to pull these libraries together).
>nonono it\'s fine, it just wanted subdirectories called
>email creating
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9835,'Thu Oct 1 11:21:47 1998','Re: Re: fixed (tim)',1,9831,'
Back now, please upload
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9836,'Thu Oct 1 11:26:16 1998','FIXED',1,9812,'
>>Ben,
>>can we make this a mandatory field as if it is not present it will throw the search by price out completely. All \'real\' data entered so far has a maximum group size.
>
>by the way the same goes for number of rooms (nobed)
>---any chalet priced per room per night/week will
>cause an error if it doesn\'t have a nobed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9837,'Thu Oct 1 11:41:19 1998','FIXED',1,9758,'
>>My chalet (Alaska) is priced at £2000 per person per week and sleeps 10, and I am searching for chalets for less than £400 (no group size). Alaska is being selected by the search. I don\'t think it should be.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9838,'Thu Oct 1 11:42:14 1998','FIXED',1,9833,'
>>These don\'t seem to be appearing
>We can\'t actually enter any comments at the moment
>because the db is locked but it works for me at
>home.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9839,'Thu Oct 1 11:45:23 1998','FIXED',1,9794,'
>
>>Need to get creche facilities and skischool working.
>Still outstanding
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9840,'Thu Oct 1 11:49:51 1998','chalet customer comments',4,0,'
if no comment, get lone \'()\' on page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9841,'Thu Oct 1 11:52:59 1998','FIXED',1,9807,'
>
>>>I feel that it should infact be:
>>>yyyyaaaannb
>>>yyyy = year of creation, 1998 etc.
>>>aaaa - first fours chars of surname
>>>b = Alpahabet char
>>>nn = count 1-99
>>>as this will put things in a better default sort order
>>>Thoughts?
>>This is fine
>>Ben Janes
>>Nniol the Insane
>
>.... and it\'s implemented but fails with an error because
>the field in question is an int!!!!!!!!!
>Can someone change it to a char(11) (I think 11 is right)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9842,'Thu Oct 1 11:53:04 1998','fixed',4,9840,'
>if no comment, get lone \'()\' on page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9843,'Thu Oct 1 11:53:30 1998','FIXED',1,9721,'
>Where do I enter group names?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9844,'Thu Oct 1 11:54:13 1998','Re: customers',1,9722,'
>need to generate customer numbers anddate of creation
still need date of creation
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9845,'Thu Oct 1 12:20:31 1998','redirection from email',1,0,'
All,
Can we please use
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/administration/our_details.pl
as the script to name when sending info on emails (shortlists and bookings), this will build teh frame set etc so things look cool.
to set the script query string:
subject=script_name
and an option id=n
for a complete (working) example:
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/administration/our_details.pl?subject=booking_form&id=9
this script will live in /cgi-bin after the tidy up.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9846,'Thu Oct 1 12:44:16 1998','fixed (AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGHH!)',4,9844,'
it didn\'t work for ages BECAUSE I WAS UPLOADING TO /
NOT CGI-BIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
scream
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9847,'Thu Oct 1 14:25:23 1998','new design',1,0,'
All,
Kruger has done a new improved design that will give us more space for the data screens, please take a look (phase 1 site), and give any feedback.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9848,'Thu Oct 1 14:28:55 1998','Re: new design',1,9847,'
1) I am not sure about the animation, I think we could use a smoother (classier) animation using Flash technology. Comments?
2) The refreshing frame in the top right also is a bit dodgey, This should be replaced by some DHTML (nicked from www.discovery.com)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9849,'Thu Oct 1 14:35:38 1998','Plan for Phase 2',1,0,'
I have put together the plan for phase 2 (see amended plan on paneris/iglu).
Please take a look and let me know if I have got anything wrong.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9850,'Thu Oct 1 14:48:20 1998','Re: Re: new design',4,9848,'
>1) I am not sure about the animation, I think we could use a smoother (classier) animation using Flash technology. Comments?
If that happens then I\'m off the case. You can\'t get
the plugin for Linux.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9851,'Thu Oct 1 14:49:07 1998','Re: Re: Re: new design',4,9850,'
>>1) I am not sure about the animation, I think we could use a smoother (classier) animation using Flash technology. Comments?
>If that happens then I\'m off the case. You can\'t get
>the plugin for Linux.
sorry, meant to add: :-)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9852,'Thu Oct 1 14:53:12 1998','Re: new design',4,9847,'
>All,
>Kruger has done a new improved design that will give us more space for the data screens, please take a look (phase 1 site), and give any feedback.
It\'s very nice, attractive but not distracting.
I absolutely hate animation or refreshing of any kind, though.
Also it would be great if it could naturally fill the
whole width of the frame. I\'m using a big font and
there will only be room for the frms if I maximise the
window and the display grows with it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9853,'Thu Oct 1 14:54:51 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: new design',1,9851,'
>>>1) I am not sure about the animation, I think we could use a smoother (classier) animation using Flash technology. Comments?
>>If that happens then I\'m off the case. You can\'t get
>>the plugin for Linux.
>sorry, meant to add: :-)
Well, you have the source, why don\'t you invest an afternoon and write the plug-in :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9854,'Thu Oct 1 14:59:35 1998','Server-Side Includes',1,0,'
William,
I would like to take much of the repeated html out of the templates, and put it in just a couple of files. When parsing the template can we look for something like [[include ]], and pull in the html from another template.
This will be used for headers and footers, meta tags etc.
Just tome make this interesting, can we do it recursively (check the includes for includes)?
What do you think? Chippy Thoughts?
Can it happen today?
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9855,'Thu Oct 1 15:05:36 1998','Re: Server-Side Includes',4,9854,'
>William,
>I would like to take much of the repeated html out of the templates, and put it in just a couple of files. When parsing the template can we look for something like [[include ]], and pull in the html from another template.
>This will be used for headers and footers, meta tags etc.
>Just tome make this interesting, can we do it recursively (check the includes for includes)?
>What do you think? Chippy Thoughts?
>Can it happen today?
>TimJ
Natch, I\'ll do it now.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9856,'Thu Oct 1 15:16:18 1998','Re: Re: new design',1,9852,'
>>All,
>>Kruger has done a new improved design that will give us more space for the data screens, please take a look (phase 1 site), and give any feedback.
>It\'s very nice, attractive but not distracting.
>I absolutely hate animation or refreshing of any kind, though.
:)
The customer doen\'t think of anything else.
>Also it would be great if it could naturally fill the
>whole width of the frame. I\'m using a big font and
>there will only be room for the frms if I maximise the
>window and the display grows with it.
Umm, this is up for debate, the question is:
q: "Do we have enough room to present our data nicely?"
a: probably yes, in which case we do not need a wider frame.
A wider frame would impact negatively on the design (IMHO).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9857,'Thu Oct 1 15:26:04 1998','Re: new design',1,9847,'
>All,
>Kruger has done a new improved design that will give us more space for the data screens, please take a look (phase 1 site), and give any feedback.
The animation appears in the middle of the frame for NS4
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9858,'Thu Oct 1 15:33:53 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: intermittent search error',23,9777,'
>I still can\'t reproduce, IE4 or NS4?
Im afraid I can still reproduce it - intermittently NS4.5b1
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9859,'Thu Oct 1 15:40:51 1998','Base font',1,0,'
Only works in IE4.
Looks like we should hard set all the font stuff.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9860,'Thu Oct 1 15:50:46 1998','Re: new design',2,9847,'
>All,
>Kruger has done a new improved design that will give us more space for the data screens, please take a look (phase 1 site), and give any feedback.
Looks a lot better although things still don\'t line up
(on NS4.0 the blue edges don\'t line up on the left - the
bottom is about 2-3 pixels too far to the right - or on
the right - bottom blue line is about 8 pixels too far to
the right).
I also think that we should use the full width of the browser.
It does make a bit more work to get the home page looking nice
and lining up, but I think it will well worthwhile for all
concerned (except maybe Kruger :-)
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9861,'Thu Oct 1 15:52:52 1998','fixed',4,9855,'
>Natch, I\'ll do it now.
New Template.pm uploaded to cgi-int
[[INCLUDE foo]] includes foo from the templates dir
[[INCLUDE foo/bar]] includes templates/foo/bar
[[INCLUDE C:\foo]] includes C:\foo
it is recursive but
a) there is no notion of a path, only a single include dir
b) if you include something outside the templates dir
then it will NOT recursively include things from
that directory, only from templates dir (ie root
is not taken from file location)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9862,'Thu Oct 1 15:56:29 1998','Re: Re: new design',4,9857,'
>>All,
>>Kruger has done a new improved design that will give us more space for the data screens, please take a look (phase 1 site), and give any feedback.
>The animation appears in the middle of the frame for NS4
erm, what animation (Netscape 4.05/Linux)? :-)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9863,'Thu Oct 1 15:57:47 1998','Re: new design',4,9847,'
I guess you know this but I get a javascript
error when I click on about or terms & conds
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9864,'Thu Oct 1 15:59:46 1998','Re: Plan for Phase 2',3,9849,'
Tim,
>I have put together the plan for phase 2 (see amended plan on paneris/iglu).
>Please take a look and let me know if I have got anything wrong.
One why is the deadline so soon?
Surley it would be better to consolidate, bug fix etc
then start Phase 2 on 01//11/98, let alone finish then.
Secondly I thought I was pencilled in for messageboards?
If the deadlines have to be as tight as they are then
I probably couldn\'t get up to speed in time, and it is
probably best to keep the racing team together.
yours
Timmy Tortoise
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9865,'Thu Oct 1 16:04:44 1998','Re: Re: Re: new design',4,9856,'
>Umm, this is up for debate, the question is:
>q: "Do we have enough room to present our data nicely?"
>a: probably yes, in which case we do not need a wider frame.
No we don\'t, not in the existing frame. I don\'t, anyway.
>A wider frame would impact negatively on the design (IMHO).
It certainly adds additional constraints, and I agree
it\'s not clear how to make the currenct design flexibly
wide. Oh well, it\'s not an important point.
NB things don\'t line up perfectly and are strangely
different sizes---I don\'t know if netscape/linux is
different from netscape/win.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9866,'Thu Oct 1 16:21:31 1998','Re: Re: new design',1,9860,'
>>All,
>>Kruger has done a new improved design that will give us more space for the data screens, please take a look (phase 1 site), and give any feedback.
>Looks a lot better although things still don\'t line up
>(on NS4.0 the blue edges don\'t line up on the left - the
>bottom is about 2-3 pixels too far to the right - or on
>the right - bottom blue line is about 8 pixels too far to
>the right).
>I also think that we should use the full width of the browser.
>It does make a bit more work to get the home page looking nice
>and lining up, but I think it will well worthwhile for all
>concerned (except maybe Kruger :-)
Unless you are very concerned, I would like to go with what we have, and see if we can get the pages layed out nicely. If we start struggling, we will go for more width.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9867,'Thu Oct 1 16:34:13 1998','Re: Re: Plan for Phase 2',1,9864,'
>Tim,
>>I have put together the plan for phase 2 (see amended plan on paneris/iglu).
>>Please take a look and let me know if I have got anything wrong.
>
>One why is the deadline so soon?
>Surley it would be better to consolidate, bug fix etc
>then start Phase 2 on 01//11/98, let alone finish then.
Did this today. Trouble is that people are booking skiing hols right now, so we have to push on.
>Secondly I thought I was pencilled in for messageboards?
Sorry, (timJ calls timP to straighten this out)
>If the deadlines have to be as tight as they are then
>I probably couldn\'t get up to speed in time, and it is
>probably best to keep the racing team together.
not so tight anymore, we\'ve done the tough bit.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9868,'Thu Oct 1 16:48:51 1998','Re: fixed',1,9861,'
>>Natch, I\'ll do it now.
>New Template.pm uploaded to cgi-int
>[[INCLUDE foo]] includes foo from the templates dir
>[[INCLUDE foo/bar]] includes templates/foo/bar
>[[INCLUDE C:\foo]] includes C:\foo
>it is recursive but
>a) there is no notion of a path, only a single include dir
>b) if you include something outside the templates dir
> then it will NOT recursively include things from
> that directory, only from templates dir (ie root
> is not taken from file location)
Where do I set the include dir?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9869,'Thu Oct 1 19:26:06 1998','location search',23,0,'
there is a chalet called Che Midgely in the Soldeu el Tarter resort
yet a search on the Soldeu el Tarter resort yields no results ???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9870,'Thu Oct 1 19:33:59 1998','Re: location search',4,9869,'
>there is a chalet called Che Midgely in the Soldeu el Tarter resort
>yet a search on the Soldeu el Tarter resort yields no results ???
It\'s because it thinks it\'s in France.
There is still a country field in the property table,
which ought to go.
Certainly it is unnecessary to have both the country and
the resort in the search criteria; I\'ll stop it doing
that.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9871,'Thu Oct 1 19:36:48 1998','Re: Re: fixed',4,9868,'
>>[[INCLUDE foo]] includes foo from the templates dir
^^^^^^^^^
>Where do I set the include dir?
It\'s /templates (or in general $templateVariables::_templates).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9872,'Thu Oct 1 19:44:55 1998','fixed -- but property.country ought to be deleted',4,9870,'
>Certainly it is unnecessary to have both the country and
>the resort in the search criteria; I\'ll stop it doing
>that.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9873,'Thu Oct 1 19:47:07 1998','price search',23,0,'
the price ranges in the price search (£401 - £800 etc)
are too big. I will discover what an appropriate set would be and let you know tomorrow
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9874,'Thu Oct 1 20:01:19 1998','booked properties filter',23,0,'
can we filter out of all searches all properties that are already booked during the week after the stated arrival date?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9875,'Thu Oct 1 20:04:30 1998','search by booking period',23,0,'
There is a field in a table somewhere (Ill have to ask Ben)
that contains the booking period for a property
ie saturday to saturday - sunday to sunday - midweek etc
can we use this as a search criteria in a property search?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9876,'Thu Oct 1 20:07:37 1998','email us',23,0,'
can we devise a way to send an email without invoking the browser email client - as some people dont know how to set it up I hear.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9877,'Thu Oct 1 20:33:29 1998','printing frames',23,0,'
I dont seem to be able to print anything from the site. there is a javascript message and nothing happens. It also seems to have killed my printer. Is this normal??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9878,'Thu Oct 1 20:41:45 1998','Re: printing frames',4,9877,'
>I dont seem to be able to print anything from the site. there is a javascript message and nothing happens. It also seems to have killed my printer. Is this normal??
what javascript message?
the short answer is no it\'s not normal, and I can print
fine :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9879,'Thu Oct 1 20:43:26 1998','Re: price search',4,9873,'
fyi it can parse a fairly wide range of English range expressions
so changing the ranges is extremely straightforward for
the end user
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9880,'Thu Oct 1 20:45:10 1998','Re: email us',4,9876,'
>can we devise a way to send an email without invoking the browser email client - as some people dont know how to set it up I hear.
The infrastructure is basically there---
but obviously it would mean a little extra work,
and we should think carefully before doing something
suboptimal for most people purely to benefit the idiot
minority who are probably going to mistype their
credit card number anyway
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9881,'Thu Oct 1 20:46:01 1998','Re: search by booking period',4,9875,'
>There is a field in a table somewhere (Ill have to ask Ben)
>that contains the booking period for a property
> ie saturday to saturday - sunday to sunday - midweek etc
>can we use this as a search criteria in a property search?
We could but it\'s not in the spec. Budget an hour for
it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9882,'Thu Oct 1 20:46:48 1998','Re: booked properties filter',4,9874,'
>can we filter out of all searches all properties that are already booked during the week after the stated arrival date?
Again, we could but it\'s not in the spec. Budget an hour
for it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9883,'Thu Oct 1 22:21:43 1998','not fixed',1,9871,'
>>>[[INCLUDE foo]] includes foo from the templates dir
> ^^^^^^^^^
>>Where do I set the include dir?
>It\'s /templates (or in general $templateVariables::_templates).
Nope, it\'s looking in the cgi-bin directory that the script is running in.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9884,'Thu Oct 1 22:22:32 1998','Re: fixed -- but property.country ought to be deleted',1,9872,'
>>Certainly it is unnecessary to have both the country and
>>the resort in the search criteria; I\'ll stop it doing
>>that.
Ben - OK with you?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9885,'Thu Oct 1 22:25:20 1998','Re: Re: booked properties filter',1,9882,'
>>can we filter out of all searches all properties that are already booked during the week after the stated arrival date?
>Again, we could but it\'s not in the spec. Budget an hour
>for it.
There ain\'t no point is showing people properties already booked. Deffinitely needs fixing.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9886,'Thu Oct 1 22:27:14 1998','Re: Re: search by booking period',1,9881,'
>>There is a field in a table somewhere (Ill have to ask Ben)
>>that contains the booking period for a property
>> ie saturday to saturday - sunday to sunday - midweek etc
>>can we use this as a search criteria in a property search?
>We could but it\'s not in the spec. Budget an hour for
>it.
Lets do it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9887,'Thu Oct 1 22:28:14 1998','Re: Re: email us',1,9880,'
>>can we devise a way to send an email without invoking the browser email client - as some people dont know how to set it up I hear.
>The infrastructure is basically there---
>but obviously it would mean a little extra work,
>and we should think carefully before doing something
>suboptimal for most people purely to benefit the idiot
>minority who are probably going to mistype their
>credit card number anyway
Will, you OK?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9888,'Thu Oct 1 22:29:33 1998','Re: Re: printing frames',1,9878,'
>>I dont seem to be able to print anything from the site. there is a javascript message and nothing happens. It also seems to have killed my printer. Is this normal??
>what javascript message?
>the short answer is no it\'s not normal, and I can print
>fine :)
I assume you are looking at the site with the graphic surrounds. Much of this is broken since we changed it earlier. Should be finalised tomorrow.
Dunno about your printer.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9889,'Thu Oct 1 22:33:46 1998','templates',1,0,'
I have taken control of all the templates for a 1st pass and making them neater. Is this OK with everyone?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9890,'Thu Oct 1 22:35:32 1998','blue line',1,0,'
Krugs,
you said you had done a page with a blue line footer, can you put it up please (or let me know where it is)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9891,'Fri Oct 2 8:31:53 1998','Re: Re: Re: email us',4,9887,'
>Will, you OK?
No, grumpy :-)
Maybe it was the girl in the next room playing her violin
late at night ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9892,'Fri Oct 2 8:39:32 1998','Re: Re: fixed -- but property.country ought to be deleted',4,9884,'
>>>Certainly it is unnecessary to have both the country and
>>>the resort in the search criteria; I\'ll stop it doing
>>>that.
>Ben - OK with you?
Just to clarify, it oughtn\'t to make any difference at
all since we moved to defining the country in the
ski resort not in the chalet; the country field in the
chalet is redundant where not actually error-causing.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9893,'Fri Oct 2 9:00:35 1998','no, really is fixed',4,9883,'
>>>>[[INCLUDE foo]] includes foo from the templates dir
>> ^^^^^^^^^
>>>Where do I set the include dir?
>>It\'s /templates (or in general $templateVariables::_templates).
>Nope, it\'s looking in the cgi-bin directory that the script is running in.
That\'s probably because you are not use-ing IgluPage.pm,
which sets $templateVariables::_includeDir to _templates_dir.
The cgi-int executability seems to have gone away this
morning but I have updated the versions in cgi-bin and
it works for me---try
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/search/includetest.pl
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9894,'Fri Oct 2 9:03:57 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: email us',1,9891,'
>>Will, you OK?
>No, grumpy :-)
>Maybe it was the girl in the next room playing her violin
>late at night ...
sounds lovely. More generally, I am keen to be responsive and positive in the initial stages of feedback from iglu. The important thing is to get the changes done, and get this phase signed off quickly.
We should however consolidate our libs first, what stage are we at? Has Chippy done his bit yet?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9895,'Fri Oct 2 10:00:31 1998','FIXED ITSELF',23,9888,'
>>>I dont seem to be able to print anything from the site. there is a javascript message and nothing happens. It also seems to have killed my printer. Is this normal??
>>what javascript message?
>>the short answer is no it\'s not normal, and I can print
>>fine :)
>I assume you are looking at the site with the graphic surrounds. Much of this is broken since we changed it earlier. Should be finalised tomorrow.
>Dunno about your printer.
go figure
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9896,'Fri Oct 2 10:04:10 1998','fixed',4,9885,'
excludes properties known to be booked (as determined from
booking.arrdate and booking.depdate) during the period
from the given arrival date to 7 days later
note that this means that people do have to enter that
date correctly ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9897,'Fri Oct 2 10:04:17 1998','Re: Re: fixed -- but property.country ought to be deleted',20,9884,'
>>>Certainly it is unnecessary to have both the country and
>>>the resort in the search criteria; I\'ll stop it doing
>>>that.
>Ben - OK with you?
Well, not really, as it is possible for a SkiResort to flow over two different countries, so within one resort could be properties from two countries.
Go figure that one out, I think the french done a odd job.
Ben Janes
Nniol.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9898,'Fri Oct 2 10:07:26 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: email us',4,9894,'
>>>Will, you OK?
>>No, grumpy :-)
>>Maybe it was the girl in the next room playing her violin
>>late at night ...
>sounds lovely. More generally, I am keen to be responsive and positive in the initial stages of feedback from iglu. The important thing is to get the changes done, and get this phase signed off quickly.
"fair play", to coin a phrase :)
>We should however consolidate our libs first, what stage are we at? Has Chippy done his bit yet?
that\'s why I thought maybe we should be cautious about
accepting any more features
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9899,'Fri Oct 2 10:09:05 1998','Re: templates',4,9889,'
>I have taken control of all the templates for a 1st pass and making them neater. Is this OK with everyone?
they\'re pretty!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9900,'Fri Oct 2 10:10:59 1998','Re: FIXED ITSELF',4,9895,'
>go figure
I figure that computers are a pain ...
Any more on the intermittent search bug?
I tried hammering it on my own machine but didn\'t
manage to make it fail.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9901,'Fri Oct 2 10:18:22 1998','Re: Re: Re: fixed -- but property.country ought to be deleted',4,9897,'
>>>>Certainly it is unnecessary to have both the country and
>>>>the resort in the search criteria; I\'ll stop it doing
>>>>that.
>>Ben - OK with you?
>Well, not really, as it is possible for a SkiResort to flow over two different countries, so within one resort could be properties from two countries.
>Go figure that one out, I think the french done a odd job.
>Ben Janes
>Nniol.
Oh dear, and we were so careful to check it didn\'t happen
before ... :).
maybe the best answer is to make it search for a match
on either resort.country or chalet.country?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9902,'Fri Oct 2 10:41:41 1998','cgi-int',4,0,'
Can we get iway to reenable cgi-int as a CGI dir?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9903,'Fri Oct 2 10:47:25 1998','fixed²',4,9901,'
>>>>>Certainly it is unnecessary to have both the country and
>>>>>the resort in the search criteria; I\'ll stop it doing
>>>>>that.
>>>Ben - OK with you?
>>Well, not really, as it is possible for a SkiResort to flow over two different countries, so within one resort could be properties from two countries.
>>Go figure that one out, I think the french done a odd job.
>>Ben Janes
>>Nniol.
>Oh dear, and we were so careful to check it didn\'t happen
>before ... :).
>maybe the best answer is to make it search for a match
>on either resort.country or chalet.country?
this is what it does now
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9904,'Fri Oct 2 10:52:45 1998','search/login/shortlist: some fields don\'t appear',4,0,'
I\'ve broken something
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9905,'Fri Oct 2 10:58:18 1998','Towels Included? Field',20,0,'
It has just been pointed out that they is a Towel price field, but no Towels Included (a boolean) field.
This field would be yes if towels are included in the price and no otherwise.
Ben Janes
Nniol
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9906,'Fri Oct 2 11:14:36 1998','yes they do (it really was a blank field)',4,9904,'
>I\'ve broken something
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9907,'Fri Oct 2 11:16:13 1998','fixed',4,9902,'
>Can we get iway to reenable cgi-int as a CGI dir?
it\'s back now
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9908,'Fri Oct 2 11:22:13 1998','Kruger\'s Email Address',3,0,'
Tim,
Kruger\'s email address has stopped working,
is this connected with cgi-int no longer being executable?
Did they has a disaster?
yours
timP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9909,'Fri Oct 2 11:29:00 1998','Re: Towels Included? Field',1,9905,'
>It has just been pointed out that they is a Towel price field, but no Towels Included (a boolean) field.
>This field would be yes if towels are included in the price and no otherwise.
Is there no assumption that can be made here:
No towels price = towels included;
towels price present = towels not included
Otherwise ben, you are welcome to change the database.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9910,'Fri Oct 2 11:31:49 1998','Re: Re: templates',1,9899,'
Will,
Can we add a parse to the templates that spots any reference to /images (or ../../images etc), and replaces it with an absolute path.
This will allow us to build images into the templates, make them look great, and still have them work when pushed through the scripts.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9911,'Fri Oct 2 12:03:51 1998','book now',1,0,'
The book now button on the chalet search results summary should add the chalet to the shortlist (and then display the booking form) - Action Chippy.
This button should also appear on the main chalet details page - Action Tim.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9912,'Fri Oct 2 12:07:46 1998','chalet pics',1,0,'
John,
Got any pics yet? You said you had some, but I can\'t find the relevant chalet.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9913,'Fri Oct 2 12:08:22 1998','terms and conditions',1,0,'
When will we have these?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9914,'Fri Oct 2 12:11:39 1998','iglu feedback 02/10',23,0,'
The feedbacks in and Im currently decyphering it into chunks
I thought Id keep it all in this thread for tidyness.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9915,'Fri Oct 2 12:15:15 1998','chalet search results 1',23,9914,'
Can we include the accommodation description text at the top of each result? (also \'chalet\' should be replaced with \'accommodation\' where appropriate)
Can we also include the resort description text at the top of each resort description section ?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9916,'Fri Oct 2 12:15:43 1998','chalet search results 2',23,9914,'
The field labelled "accommodation" is displaying catering type and the accommodation type is not displayed anywhere.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9917,'Fri Oct 2 12:16:44 1998','chalet search results 3',23,9914,'
The price doesn\'t appear (and how are we handling the units for this?)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9918,'Fri Oct 2 12:17:29 1998','chalet search results 4',23,9914,'
Can we include the No of bathrooms under the No of bedrooms?
Can we have the name of the ski domain under resort description?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9919,'Fri Oct 2 12:18:09 1998','chalet search results 5',23,9914,'
Total No of slopes doesn\'t add up to the sum of Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced ???#
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9920,'Fri Oct 2 12:18:33 1998','chalet search results 6',23,9914,'
Can we lose the decimal place from no of slopes, bars etc?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9921,'Fri Oct 2 12:19:29 1998','chalet search results 7',23,9914,'
What about having a Book Now button in search results and accommodation details? (at the moment you can only book via the shortlist)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9922,'Fri Oct 2 12:24:30 1998','accommodation details 1',23,9914,'
is there a simple quick and dirty way of displaying the additional prices for things like animals, linen, towels etc?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9923,'Fri Oct 2 12:43:17 1998','Re: chalet pics',23,9912,'
>John,
>Got any pics yet? You said you had some, but I can\'t find the relevant chalet.
there are some pics in Che Midgely in Soldeu el Tarter
but this chalet has stopped appearing in search results ( accom type - chalet)???
the same pics are now in alaska in Arêches-Beaufort
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9924,'Fri Oct 2 12:46:40 1998','Re: book now',2,9911,'
>The book now button on the chalet search results summary should add the chalet to the shortlist (and then display the booking form) - Action Chippy.
It would be really handy if Will could add it and then re-direct to the
booking form. How does this sound, Will...
>This button should also appear on the main chalet details page - Action Tim.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9925,'Fri Oct 2 12:52:29 1998','Re: Re: book now',4,9924,'
>>The book now button on the chalet search results summary should add the chalet to the shortlist (and then display the booking form) - Action Chippy.
>It would be really handy if Will could add it and then re-direct to the
>booking form. How does this sound, Will...
Yep, was going to say ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9926,'Fri Oct 2 12:55:16 1998','Re: Re: Re: templates',4,9910,'
>Will,
>Can we add a parse to the templates that spots any reference to /images (or ../../images etc), and replaces it with an absolute path.
>This will allow us to build images into the templates, make them look great, and still have them work when pushed through the scripts.
Yes, I can\'t see any better way, except would it work if
you simply put the images in the same directory as the
templates?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9927,'Fri Oct 2 12:59:48 1998','accommodation details 2',23,9914,'
number of sleeps not showing
only 2 bedrooms showing even when there are more
can we show bathroom ensuite / shared?
also we can lose the \'heating type\' altogether
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9928,'Fri Oct 2 13:04:35 1998','accommodation details 3',23,9914,'
heres a curious one -
it appears that French people draw no distinction between
a tick and a cross - which generates some confusion.
Can anybody think of a truly international design solution?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9929,'Fri Oct 2 13:07:03 1998','accommodation details 4',23,9914,'
can we add the booking period information (saturday to saturday etc)
from the booking_period table
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9930,'Fri Oct 2 13:46:54 1998','accommodation details 5',23,9914,'
when viewing an accommodation details page the top nav frame
contains 2 links to the same page - \'view chalet\' and \'\'
are these redundant?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9931,'Fri Oct 2 14:09:47 1998','Re: accommodation details 3',1,9928,'
>heres a curious one -
>it appears that French people draw no distinction between
>a tick and a cross - which generates some confusion.
>Can anybody think of a truly international design solution?
LOL (lots)
Perhaps we should suggest that their culture is dieing fast and they should just rollover and accept it (bit like a German Invasion).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9932,'Fri Oct 2 14:11:05 1998','Re: accommodation details 3',1,9928,'
>heres a curious one -
>it appears that French people draw no distinction between
>a tick and a cross - which generates some confusion.
>Can anybody think of a truly international design solution?
happy smiley face for yes (ie. a tick) and unhappy face for no (ie. a cross)
alternatively a thumbs up sign and a thumbs down sign.
typical of the bloody French tho\', isn\'t it. Bunch of frog-eating,
gauloise-smoking, beret-wearers that they are. No wonder we have to keep
baling them out of wars....
au revoir, Emma
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9933,'Fri Oct 2 14:36:14 1998','Re: Re: price search',23,9879,'
>fyi it can parse a fairly wide range of English range expressions
>so changing the ranges is extremely straightforward for
>the end user
a more reasonable list of ranges is:
less than £50
£50 to £100
£101 to £200
£201 to £500
more than £500
is this ok?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9934,'Fri Oct 2 15:07:49 1998','accommodation details 6',23,9914,'
there are some info fields in the properties table that arent in the details output
eg
access to property
wheelchair facilities
no of showers
etc
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9935,'Fri Oct 2 15:12:50 1998','Re: chalet search results 2',4,9916,'
>The field labelled "accommodation" is displaying catering type and the accommodation type is not displayed anywhere.
Hmmm, I originally copied the headings off the Oyster
spec and made it a kind of combined catering/accom type
field but someone has changed it to catering only.
Is there a definitive right way of doing it?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9936,'Fri Oct 2 15:14:17 1998','Re: Re: accommodation details 3',4,9932,'
>alternatively a thumbs up sign and a thumbs down sign.
That notoriously doesn\'t travel well either ...
bite the wax tadpole.
How about a box with or without a tick in it?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9937,'Fri Oct 2 15:17:26 1998','Re: chalet search results 5',4,9919,'
>
>Total No of slopes doesn\'t add up to the sum of Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced ???#
That\'s me being ignorant!
How do the slope colour codes map onto beginner--advanced?
I just made green beginner, blue intermediate and red
advanced but that leaves black.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9938,'Fri Oct 2 15:18:44 1998','Re: chalet search results 3',4,9917,'
>The price doesn\'t appear (and how are we handling the units for this?)
Oops, yes, forgot to do anything about this.
Basically as I see it we should show up the pricing info
for the property matching the proposed arrival date.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9939,'Fri Oct 2 15:20:14 1998','Re: accommodation details 1',4,9922,'
>
>is there a simple quick and dirty way of displaying the additional prices for things like animals, linen, towels etc?
yep, that\'s easy
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9940,'Fri Oct 2 15:21:58 1998','Re: accommodation details 5',4,9930,'
>when viewing an accommodation details page the top nav frame
>contains 2 links to the same page - \'view chalet\' and \'\'
>are these redundant?
Yes they are, it\'s taken from Oyster\'s spec but it looks
a bit of a weakness.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9941,'Fri Oct 2 15:23:08 1998','Re: accommodation details 6',4,9934,'
>there are some info fields in the properties table that arent in the details output
>eg
>access to property
>wheelchair facilities
>no of showers
>etc
It\'s because I worked from the Oyster spec, my mistake.
It\'s basically trivial to put them in the redesigned
templates and I expect Tim is doing it?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9942,'Fri Oct 2 15:37:47 1998','Re: Re: chalet search results 2',23,9935,'
>>The field labelled "accommodation" is displaying catering type and the accommodation type is not displayed anywhere.
>Hmmm, I originally copied the headings off the Oyster
>spec and made it a kind of combined catering/accom type
>field but someone has changed it to catering only.
>Is there a definitive right way of doing it?
definitive? - probably not, but separate \'accomodation type\' and \'catering\' might be the simplest / clearest
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9943,'Fri Oct 2 15:46:48 1998','Re: Re: accommodation details 6',1,9941,'
>>there are some info fields in the properties table that arent in the details output
>>eg
>>access to property
>>wheelchair facilities
>>no of showers
>>etc
>It\'s because I worked from the Oyster spec, my mistake.
>It\'s basically trivial to put them in the redesigned
>templates and I expect Tim is doing it?
Will do, but not yet, I will wait for the scripts to settle in cgi-int, cos I want to sort out the frames stuff at the same time. So expect things to happen on monday.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9944,'Fri Oct 2 16:27:03 1998','Re: Re: chalet search results 5',23,9937,'
>>
>>Total No of slopes doesn\'t add up to the sum of Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced ???#
>That\'s me being ignorant!
>How do the slope colour codes map onto beginner--advanced?
>I just made green beginner, blue intermediate and red
>advanced but that leaves black.
aparently ski people are familiar with the colour notation,
so how about just dropping the \'beginner, intermediate\' stuf
and sticking with the colours?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9945,'Fri Oct 2 16:35:35 1998','Re: Re: Re: chalet search results 2',4,9942,'
>>>The field labelled "accommodation" is displaying catering type and the accommodation type is not displayed anywhere.
>>Hmmm, I originally copied the headings off the Oyster
>>spec and made it a kind of combined catering/accom type
>>field but someone has changed it to catering only.
>>Is there a definitive right way of doing it?
>definitive? - probably not, but separate \'accomodation type\' and \'catering\' might be the simplest / clearest
absolutely, that makes a lot of sense now that b&b is no longer
both an accom type and a catering type
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9946,'Fri Oct 2 16:46:09 1998','notice boards',4,0,'
Do we prefer the Oyster/paneris layout with a whole page for
headers and then a whole page for each message,
or a newsreader-style layout with a frame a the top for
headers and a frame underneath for bodies?
Do we store messages in the filesystem or in the database?
Otherwise I don\'t see any serious issues. They seem to
have thought out the navigation OK; it\'s basically
stateless except you need to know which bulletin board
you have come from or the search criteria of the
search you have come from.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9947,'Fri Oct 2 16:52:44 1998','Re: Re: Re: book now',4,9925,'
>>>The book now button on the chalet search results summary should add the chalet to the shortlist (and then display the booking form) - Action Chippy.
>>It would be really handy if Will could add it and then re-direct to the
>>booking form. How does this sound, Will...
>Yep, was going to say ...
mmm, actually it looks like it\'s there to me ... I\'m
just getting \'can\'t find template for this page\'
from booking_form.pl
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9948,'Fri Oct 2 16:56:59 1998','Re: templates',4,9889,'
>I have taken control of all the templates for a 1st pass and making them neater. Is this OK with everyone?
The nice "add to shortlist" imagebutton you have done goes,
reasonably enough, to ChaletShortlistAdd.pl, but that\'s
not supposed to exist any more, sorry (I thought I had
deleted it but maybe that was from cgi-int).
You really must use {{ chaletShortlistURL(\'main\',
$property_id) }} as in the final version of the skeleton
template; otherwise the navigation back from the shortlist
will not work properly.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9949,'Fri Oct 2 17:34:10 1998','Re: templates',4,9889,'
>I have taken control of all the templates for a 1st pass and making them neater. Is this OK with everyone?
To make the prev/next buttons go away when they are not
relevant, use
If there are no previous hit screens, $_previous isn\'t
defined and the whole ![]()
will be removed in
templateExpansion. Otherwise ONLYIF=... will be ignored
by Netscape anyway.
(& you\'ve not replaced the chevron prev/next `buttons\' at the bottom)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9950,'Fri Oct 2 17:35:37 1998','Re: Re: templates',4,9949,'
>>I have taken control of all the templates for a 1st pass and making them neater. Is this OK with everyone?
>To make the prev/next buttons go away when they are not
>relevant, use
>
>If there are no previous hit screens, $_previous isn\'t
>defined and the whole ![]()
will be removed in
>templateExpansion. Otherwise ONLYIF=... will be ignored
>by Netscape anyway.
>(& you\'ve not replaced the chevron prev/next `buttons\' at the bottom)
@^#&*^@!!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9951,'Fri Oct 2 17:38:35 1998','Re: notice boards',1,9946,'
>Do we prefer the Oyster/paneris layout with a whole page for
>headers and then a whole page for each message,
>or a newsreader-style layout with a frame a the top for
>headers and a frame underneath for bodies?
Personally not bothered, although we don\'t have a massive amount of space :), so perhaps it\'s best to a whole page
>Do we store messages in the filesystem or in the database?
database. This allows maintenance to be carried out using the Admin system, and all site data to be backed up in one go.
>Otherwise I don\'t see any serious issues. They seem to
>have thought out the navigation OK; it\'s basically
>stateless except you need to know which bulletin board
>you have come from or the search criteria of the
>search you have come from.
cool
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9952,'Fri Oct 2 18:26:57 1998','FIXED',1,9890,'
>Krugs,
>you said you had done a page with a blue line footer, can you put it up please (or let me know where it is)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9953,'Fri Oct 2 18:29:45 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: new design',1,9865,'
>NB things don\'t line up perfectly and are strangely
>different sizes---I don\'t know if netscape/linux is
>different from netscape/win.
Kruger is preparing netscape only design. Cos Netscape is just no good at it. Have you had a look in IE :-)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9954,'Fri Oct 2 18:31:51 1998','Re: Re: templates',1,9948,'
>>I have taken control of all the templates for a 1st pass and making them neater. Is this OK with everyone?
>The nice "add to shortlist" imagebutton you have done goes,
>reasonably enough, to ChaletShortlistAdd.pl, but that\'s
>not supposed to exist any more, sorry (I thought I had
>deleted it but maybe that was from cgi-int).
>You really must use {{ chaletShortlistURL(\'main\',
>$property_id) }} as in the final version of the skeleton
>template; otherwise the navigation back from the shortlist
>will not work properly.
oops, looks like I started from the wrong place. All fixed now.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9955,'Fri Oct 2 20:03:39 1998','new designs',23,0,'
Right - a bit of feedback...
generally the designs were very well recieved and we should push on in like manner.
There are a couple of issues..
There is a bit of a space problem at a 600x800 screen res
eg the phone, fax, email info at the bottom of the nav bar
disappears. Maybe we could put it in the title frame and lose
the scroll bar? (sorry Kruger)
Also - there is a feeling that the title frame and the nav
frames are a bit wide and eating up main frame space.
How bad would it be to slim them down, with all the logo
and nav rescaling that would involve? (sorry Kruger)
Also can we arrange the chalet search form so all the boxes
and the search button are visible without scrolling at 600x800?
one other tiny thing - somebody couldnt see the connection
between the scissor icon and the \'add to shortlist\' function
that it connotes. Any other ideas? (sorry Kruger)
..Hell of a weeks work all round
have a nice weekend
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9956,'Fri Oct 2 20:07:08 1998','Re: notice boards',3,9946,'
Will,
>Do we store messages in the filesystem or in the database?
As timJ said there are good reasons for storing the messages
in the DB.
I was initially interested in the message boards
as I wanted to get the Paneris boards changed and was
hoping for some code re-use.
I am hoping that the iglu template mechanism will
replace those on Paneris.
One of the design ideas within HyperNews, that I like very much,
is that any/every page, including messages, is a message board.
Whilst this is not strictly relevant to Iglu, I am hoping that
it can be born in mind whilst designing the iglu boards.
yours
TimP
(bad day)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9957,'Fri Oct 2 21:01:11 1998','FIXED',2,9681,'
>All,
>If you get this then the Iglu message board now
>gives you the project email list by default.
>yours
>TimP
I got it!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9958,'Fri Oct 2 21:13:15 1998','Re: new designs',1,9955,'
>Right - a bit of feedback...
>generally the designs were very well recieved and we should push on in like manner.
great
>There are a couple of issues..
>There is a bit of a space problem at a 600x800 screen res
>eg the phone, fax, email info at the bottom of the nav bar
>disappears. Maybe we could put it in the title frame and lose
>the scroll bar? (sorry Kruger)
>Also - there is a feeling that the title frame and the nav
>frames are a bit wide and eating up main frame space.
> How bad would it be to slim them down, with all the logo
>and nav rescaling that would involve? (sorry Kruger)
>Also can we arrange the chalet search form so all the boxes
>and the search button are visible without scrolling at 600x800?
John - please call ASAP to discuss this.
>one other tiny thing - somebody couldnt see the connection
>between the scissor icon and the \'add to shortlist\' function
>that it connotes. Any other ideas? (sorry Kruger)
From my dictionary...
"Shortlisted" - 21st century slang for "People who have had a portion (or all) of their willy chopped off (formally called Bobbited). Especially when is was down to extreemly late requests to change the design of a website". Hence the scissors.
>..Hell of a weeks work all round
>have a nice weekend
:)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9959,'Sat Oct 3 12:05:04 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: book now',2,9947,'
>>>>The book now button on the chalet search results summary should add the chalet to the shortlist (and then display the booking form) - Action Chippy.
>>>It would be really handy if Will could add it and then re-direct to the
>>>booking form. How does this sound, Will...
>>Yep, was going to say ...
>mmm, actually it looks like it\'s there to me ... I\'m
>just getting \'can\'t find template for this page\'
>from booking_form.pl
Since we only have one templates directory, I have been
altering my templates so that they work with the new
Templates for the new scripts in cgi-int. The cgi-bin
scripts will not now work. Things will be back to normal
when we transfer to cgi-int.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9960,'Mon Oct 5 11:48:19 1998','tiny design tweaks',23,0,'
re our conversation this morning Tim, could we
lose the white space at the bottom of the page (and maybe at the top?)
and centre the whole frame in the page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9961,'Mon Oct 5 12:14:41 1998','Re: redirection from email',2,9845,'
>All,
>Can we please use
>http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/administration/our_details.pl
>as the script to name when sending info on emails (shortlists and bookings), this will build teh frame set etc so things look cool.
>to set the script query string:
>subject=script_name
>and an option id=n
>for a complete (working) example:
>http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/administration/our_details.pl?subject=booking_form&id=9
>this script will live in /cgi-bin after the tidy up.
This doesn\'t work.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9962,'Mon Oct 5 13:11:58 1998','Re: tiny design tweaks',23,9960,'
the reason all this has come up is that there is some concern
about the nav and title frames taking up too much room so
there might not be enough room in the main frame to display
all the information cleanly and effectively. For Iglu the
ability to access the information outweighs design factors
quite significantly, and at the moment they can see a lot of
white space, and they are scared.
There may also have been some small misunderstanding, because
I didnt realise that the frame proportions had been so rigidly
set - I thought they might be subject to revision in the light
of the content display designs (ie how much we
can / need to fit on one page) which have not themselves been
entirely defined yet.
However - if we can demonstrate that we can get all the
required info into page-sized pieces that should go a long way
towards quelling the fear.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9963,'Mon Oct 5 13:16:17 1998','Re: Re: new designs',1,9958,'
>>There is a bit of a space problem at a 600x800 screen res
>>eg the phone, fax, email info at the bottom of the nav bar
>>disappears. Maybe we could put it in the title frame and lose
>>the scroll bar? (sorry Kruger)
>>Also - there is a feeling that the title frame and the nav
>>frames are a bit wide and eating up main frame space.
>> How bad would it be to slim them down, with all the logo
>>and nav rescaling that would involve? (sorry Kruger)
>>Also can we arrange the chalet search form so all the boxes
>>and the search button are visible without scrolling at 600x800?
>John - please call ASAP to discuss this.
As discussed, the frame design will not change significantly as this was signed off on monday 28/09/1998. We will however do the following:
1) Center the frames set
2) Reduce whitespace at the bottom of the page
3) Duplicate tel, email and fax in the top frame, and add buttons for "We\'ll Call You" and "Emial Us", both of which will lead to pages where forms will be filled out.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9964,'Mon Oct 5 14:43:36 1998','Re: Re: chalet pics',1,9923,'
>>John,
>>Got any pics yet? You said you had some, but I can\'t find the relevant chalet.
>
>there are some pics in Che Midgely in Soldeu el Tarter
>but this chalet has stopped appearing in search results ( accom type - chalet)???
>the same pics are now in alaska in Arêches-Beaufort
Will, any reason for this, it doen\'t even work when no selection criteria are entered. It\'s the only one that fails
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9965,'Mon Oct 5 15:15:47 1998','Re: Re: tiny design tweaks',1,9962,'
>the reason all this has come up is that there is some concern
>about the nav and title frames taking up too much room so
>there might not be enough room in the main frame to display
>all the information cleanly and effectively. For Iglu the
>ability to access the information outweighs design factors
>quite significantly, and at the moment they can see a lot of
>white space, and they are scared.
Cool, we have reduduced the whitespace at the bottom.
>There may also have been some small misunderstanding, because
>I didnt realise that the frame proportions had been so rigidly
>set - I thought they might be subject to revision in the light
>of the content display designs (ie how much we
> can / need to fit on one page) which have not themselves been
>entirely defined yet.
No, we are hard at work on the content frames, but the navigation and top bar are set. As mentioned, we can revisit this if required following the completion of phase 2. For my 2p, I feel that the design is nice and the space issue is not serious. Any tinkering at this stage is not going to procude much more space, and if we open this up, we are likely to end up rebuilding the entire design.
>However - if we can demonstrate that we can get all the
>required info into page-sized pieces that should go a long way
>towards quelling the fear.
I\'m working on it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9966,'Mon Oct 5 16:11:40 1998','fixed',4,9964,'
>>>John,
>>>Got any pics yet? You said you had some, but I can\'t find the relevant chalet.
>>
>>there are some pics in Che Midgely in Soldeu el Tarter
>>but this chalet has stopped appearing in search results ( accom type - chalet)???
>>the same pics are now in alaska in Arêches-Beaufort
>Will, any reason for this, it doen\'t even work when no selection criteria are entered. It\'s the only one that fails
Yes, I had used arrdate/depdate to determined booked-ness,
rather than arrdate/departdate (depdate is deposit date),
so it thought midgely was booked up to 2098.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9967,'Mon Oct 5 16:59:41 1998','design update/other issues',36,0,'Posted on behalf of Kruger by Myles
>1) Center the frames set
this has been done now
>2) Reduce whitespace at the bottom of the page
this has been done
>3) Duplicate tel, email and fax in the top frame, and add buttons for
"We\'ll Call You" and "Emial Us", both of which will lead to pages where
forms will be filled out.
this has been done, not rollover\'ed yet, waiting for a sign-off b4 i go
ahead and do that, neither has email/call us pages been html\'ed yet
OTHER ISSUES:
1. Is tel no and email correct? what about fax no?
2. template backgrounds are now html backgrounds instead of table
backgrounds so should show up cleaner for netscape.
3. for some reason the more details/add to shortlist/book now buttons dont
show up in netsacape3 - any idea why????????
4. add shortlist button changed - no more scissors
5. also netscape/msie versions now up to stop netscape\'s stupid i pixel
margin indentation, however not yet section header graphics versions for
the two - toim and i are working on that still.
6. borderline for search button removed
7. fixed backgrounds repeating in toolbar/main page for higher than 1024
screen resolutions
krugs
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9968,'Mon Oct 5 17:27:21 1998','Re: design update/other issues',2,9967,'
I can now see the Netscape version. A lot better centred.
However, the blue edges of the top and bottom frames still
don\'t line up:
Index page : the top frame\'s left edge is approx 1-2 pixels
to the left of the main frame. The right hand edge is about
5-6 pixels to the left of the right hand edge of the main frame.
Search for chalet page: The edges line up OK, although the
bit of blue line on convenience.jpg is a couple of pixels to the
right.
Also, there are horizontal scroll bars when I resize my browser
to 640x480.
(Win95, 800x600, 16bit colour, Netscape Communicator 4.0)
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9969,'Mon Oct 5 19:32:01 1998','edit prices',23,0,'
the edit prices input doesnt seem to accept 31/8/1999 as a valid date??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9970,'Mon Oct 5 19:34:53 1998','admin system display',23,0,'
can we decrease the cell spacing / padding on the admin pages so that we get more fields on a page?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9971,'Mon Oct 5 21:30:02 1998','FIXED',1,9969,'
>the edit prices input doesnt seem to accept 31/8/1999 as a valid date??
ooops.
Fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9972,'Tue Oct 6 0:26:11 1998','FIXED',1,9970,'
>can we decrease the cell spacing / padding on the admin pages so that we get more fields on a page?
Done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9973,'Tue Oct 6 0:28:38 1998','cgi-int now fully functional',1,0,'
CGI-INT is now all pulled together (apart from tim\'s admin facility which still needs work).
From now on, forget cgi-bin and use cgi-int.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9974,'Tue Oct 6 0:31:34 1998','templates',1,0,'
Kruger, can you start this job by tackling
WellCallYou.html (in /html), and then move on to the templates:
Owners*.html
Login*.html
I will be working on the Search, Shortlist and Booking templates, and should have more stuff for you to tackle by 12 noon.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9975,'Tue Oct 6 9:55:40 1998','netscape table/cell backgrounds',1,0,'
Chippy,
Have you ever managed to get these working successfully?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9976,'Tue Oct 6 10:01:34 1998','NOT FIXED',1,9966,'
>>>>John,
>>>>Got any pics yet? You said you had some, but I can\'t find the relevant chalet.
>>>
>>>there are some pics in Che Midgely in Soldeu el Tarter
>>>but this chalet has stopped appearing in search results ( accom type - chalet)???
>>>the same pics are now in alaska in Arêches-Beaufort
>>Will, any reason for this, it doen\'t even work when no selection criteria are entered. It\'s the only one that fails
>Yes, I had used arrdate/depdate to determined booked-ness,
>rather than arrdate/departdate (depdate is deposit date),
>so it thought midgely was booked up to 2098.
Not fixed, have up updated cgi-int?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9977,'Tue Oct 6 10:45:16 1998','*couldn\'t* be fixed in cgi-int, can be now!',4,9976,'
>Not fixed, have up updated cgi-int?
Of course I haven\'t since it would have potentially messed
up the edits you and chippy were doing,
since you have now finished I can do my second round of
integration and it will come in then
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9978,'Tue Oct 6 10:59:48 1998','details_resort.pl, details_domain.pl',1,0,'
Will, I seem to missing these from cgi-int
timJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9979,'Tue Oct 6 11:08:00 1998','Re: *couldn\'t* be fixed in cgi-int, can be now!',1,9977,'
>>Not fixed, have up updated cgi-int?
>Of course I haven\'t since it would have potentially messed
>up the edits you and chippy were doing,
>since you have now finished I can do my second round of
>integration and it will come in then
Sure, sorry. Which scripts are you changing? I am changing templates, and will stick to that if you are changing most of the search / shortlist scripts.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9980,'Tue Oct 6 12:00:37 1998','yep, watch this space',4,9978,'
>Will, I seem to missing these from cgi-int
>timJ
it\'s true, they will return upon uploading
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9981,'Tue Oct 6 12:26:48 1998','Re: netscape table/cell backgrounds',2,9975,'
>Chippy,
>Have you ever managed to get these working successfully?
Yes. Only Netscape 4, but I haven\'t had a problem.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9982,'Tue Oct 6 12:39:39 1998','Re: chalet search results 1',1,9915,'
>Can we include the accommodation description text at the top of each result?
done
>(also \'chalet\' should be replaced with \'accommodation\' where appropriate)
does this include the navigation?
>Can we also include the resort description text at the top of each resort description section ?
done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9983,'Tue Oct 6 13:19:08 1998','fixed',4,9980,'
>>Will, I seem to missing these from cgi-int
>>timJ
>
>it\'s true, they will return upon uploading
they\'re back ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9984,'Tue Oct 6 13:20:24 1998','Re: Re: netscape table/cell backgrounds',4,9981,'
>>Chippy,
>>Have you ever managed to get these working successfully?
>Yes. Only Netscape 4, but I haven\'t had a problem.
me too, it simply isn\'t there in NS3
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9985,'Tue Oct 6 13:22:16 1998','now in cgi-int too',4,9979,'
>>>Not fixed, have up updated cgi-int?
>>Of course I haven\'t since it would have potentially messed
>>up the edits you and chippy were doing,
>>since you have now finished I can do my second round of
>>integration and it will come in then
>Sure, sorry. Which scripts are you changing? I am changing templates, and will stick to that if you are changing most of the search / shortlist scripts.
all done and uploaded
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9986,'Tue Oct 6 13:26:24 1998','integration complete except ...',4,9973,'
I would ideally like to put the following TimJ contributions
in modules other than Util.pm:
reject_form -> CGIUtil.pm
getSQLToday -> SQLUtil.pm
getDate -> SQLUtil.pm
getTime -> SQLUtil.pm
In fact I have already copied them to those places
but didn\'t want to edit administration/*.pl so I
have also left the in Util for now.
That OK, Tim?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9987,'Tue Oct 6 14:18:28 1998','pictures',1,0,'
John,
For the pictures, we should not put the IP address or domain name in the path, rather use:
/pictures/....
This just makes the site more portable
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9988,'Tue Oct 6 14:26:30 1998','Re: integration complete except ...',2,9986,'
>I would ideally like to put the following TimJ contributions
>in modules other than Util.pm:
>reject_form -> CGIUtil.pm
>getSQLToday -> SQLUtil.pm
>getDate -> SQLUtil.pm
>getTime -> SQLUtil.pm
>In fact I have already copied them to those places
>but didn\'t want to edit administration/*.pl so I
>have also left the in Util for now.
>That OK, Tim?
Will,
These are actually my contributions, and I think it\'ll be
fine to move these. I thought of these locations myself
and only didn\'t move the date/time one there because they
are more Access orientated than SQL orientated (is that
right?). But move them there, and let me know what changes
I have to make (alter the /administration/booking*.pl
scripts?).
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9989,'Tue Oct 6 14:30:59 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: templates',1,9926,'
>>Will,
>>Can we add a parse to the templates that spots any reference to /images (or ../../images etc), and replaces it with an absolute path.
>>This will allow us to build images into the templates, make them look great, and still have them work when pushed through the scripts.
>Yes, I can\'t see any better way, except would it work if
>you simply put the images in the same directory as the
>templates?
No, don\'t like this. While you\'re doing this, can you also parse for /pictures and replace with $IgluPage::pictures_url, so our piccies work.
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9990,'Tue Oct 6 15:11:29 1998','next pages to add graphics',1,0,'
Kruger,
Can you tackle the following pages next:
ChaletSearchResultsNone.html
Details_Property.html
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9991,'Tue Oct 6 15:23:43 1998','Re: next pages to add graphics',1,9990,'
>Kruger,
>Can you tackle the following pages next:
>ChaletSearchResultsNone.html
>Details_Property.html
Also,
ChaletShortlist.html
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9992,'Tue Oct 6 15:27:41 1998','Re: Re: next pages to add graphics',1,9991,'
>>Kruger,
>>Can you tackle the following pages next:
>>ChaletSearchResultsNone.html
>>Details_Property.html
>Also,
>ChaletShortlist.html
Sorry, make that:
ChaletShortlist*.html
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9993,'Tue Oct 6 16:00:12 1998','Re: Re: Re: next pages to add graphics',1,9992,'
>>>Kruger,
>>>Can you tackle the following pages next:
>>>ChaletSearchResultsNone.html
>>>Details_Property.html
>ChaletShortlist*.html
Also ready are:
Details_Domain.html and
Details_Domain_ChaletList.html
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9994,'Tue Oct 6 17:01:57 1998','Database back-up',20,0,'
Someone,
IGLU would like a backup of the database for their own purposes, nefarious or what.
Tim, would like to set up some server-side code that would be placed in the System Functions part of the database administration WWW pages.
So that they can click on it, and donwload the database for backup.
Would it be possible for someone to do this?
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9995,'Tue Oct 6 17:12:06 1998','duplicate duplicate button',23,0,'
In the admin/edit property - is it possible to create a duplicate
of the \'duplicate\' button at the bottom and put it at the top.
(this makes life easier at the data entry level)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9996,'Tue Oct 6 17:32:18 1998','shortlist',23,0,'
at the top of the shortlist appears the legend
\'Chalet shortlist for group (unnamed) \'
should the group name appear in the (unnamed)?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9997,'Tue Oct 6 17:33:32 1998','Re: Re: integration complete except ...',4,9988,'
>Will,
>These are actually my contributions, and I think it\'ll be
>fine to move these. I thought of these locations myself
>and only didn\'t move the date/time one there because they
>are more Access orientated than SQL orientated (is that
>right?).
Good point, maybe we should have AccessUtils ...
>But move them there, and let me know what changes
>I have to make (alter the /administration/booking*.pl
>scripts?).
>Myles
yep, and then delete \'em from Util.pm
thanks,
W
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9998,'Tue Oct 6 17:37:16 1998','Re: shortlist',4,9996,'
>at the top of the shortlist appears the legend
>\'Chalet shortlist for group (unnamed) \'
>should the group name appear in the (unnamed)?
No, that means the group is called (unnamed)
which is what they *used* to be called when you
created one leaving the name field blank
In the recent versions it will get called
"William Chesters\'s group"
so the (unnamed) won\'t ever appear
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9999,'Tue Oct 6 17:40:48 1998','Re: Database back-up',4,9994,'
>Someone,
>IGLU would like a backup of the database for their own purposes, nefarious or what.
>Tim, would like to set up some server-side code that would be placed in the System Functions part of the database administration WWW pages.
>So that they can click on it, and donwload the database for backup.
>Would it be possible for someone to do this?
>Ben Janes
By the way I have code to dump out the database in SQL
form, i.e. all the SQL CREATE TABLE and INSERT statements
which are required to duplicate it. This would make it
easy to put it into a different database than Access.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10000,'Tue Oct 6 17:49:47 1998','fixed (never broke)',23,9998,'
>>at the top of the shortlist appears the legend
>>\'Chalet shortlist for group (unnamed) \'
>>should the group name appear in the (unnamed)?
>No, that means the group is called (unnamed)
>which is what they *used* to be called when you
>created one leaving the name field blank
>In the recent versions it will get called
>"William Chesters\'s group"
>so the (unnamed) won\'t ever appear
Thanks William
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10001,'Tue Oct 6 18:35:49 1998','resort search enhancements',23,0,'
This is not a requirement, but perhaps a worthwhile enhancement.
Currently with the search system there is no way of quickly finding
a particular resort you already know -
you have to go through chalet search ...
so - could we include on the resort search page a search list
exactly like the \'location(country / resort)\' list in chalet search?
Maybe label this search \'resort\' and the existing \'location\'
search could be labeled \'country\'
comments...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10002,'Tue Oct 6 18:55:01 1998','Re: resort search enhancements',4,10001,'
>so - could we include on the resort search page a search list
>exactly like the \'location(country / resort)\' list in chalet search?
>Maybe label this search \'resort\' and the existing \'location\'
>search could be labeled \'country\'
>comments...
Funny you should say that :-)
It\'s in the Oyster spec and it used to be there but I
deleted it on orders from Mr TJ!
If we decide we want it back it\'s no problem, just pasting
the code back from the chalet search pages.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10003,'Tue Oct 6 18:58:08 1998','Re: pictures',4,9987,'
>John,
>For the pictures, we should not put the IP address or domain name in the path, rather use:
>/pictures/....
>This just makes the site more portable
/pictures is now mapped to http://www.iglu.com/pictures
---as long as the Perl code uses IgluPage::templateExpansion
rather than Template::templateExpansion.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10004,'Tue Oct 6 19:03:45 1998','fixed, but requires a little action from timj/myles',4,9989,'
>>>Will,
>>>Can we add a parse to the templates that spots any reference to /images (or ../../images etc), and replaces it with an absolute path.
>>>This will allow us to build images into the templates, make them look great, and still have them work when pushed through the scripts.
>>Yes, I can\'t see any better way, except would it work if
>>you simply put the images in the same directory as the
>>templates?
>No, don\'t like this. While you\'re doing this, can you also parse for /pictures and replace with $IgluPage::pictures_url, so our piccies work.
>Cheers
>Tim
There is a new function IgluPage::templateExpansion in
IgluPage.pm. If you use that instead of
Template::templateExpansion it maps
IMG SRC=/images => $IgluPage::template_images_url
IMG SRC=/pictures => $IgluPage::pictures_url
the former being in fact http://www.iglu.com/templates/images
and the latter http://www.iglu.com/pictures.
The search/shortlist/login scripts have been changed to
use that but Myles and TimJ: you will have to change
yours, and note that the first two arguments ($iglu
and $form) get dropped in the IgluPage version.
If you like I can do a programmed edit for you and it
will not be any hassle ... :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10005,'Tue Oct 6 19:17:19 1998','Re: fixed, but requires a little action from timj/myles',4,10004,'
> IMG SRC=/images => $IgluPage::template_images_url
>the former being in fact http://www.iglu.com/templates/images
this has been changed to http://www.iglu.com/images
since, of course, it broke all the templates ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10006,'Tue Oct 6 22:46:47 1998','Re: Re: resort search enhancements',1,10002,'
>>so - could we include on the resort search page a search list
>>exactly like the \'location(country / resort)\' list in chalet search?
>>Maybe label this search \'resort\' and the existing \'location\'
>>search could be labeled \'country\'
>>comments...
>Funny you should say that :-)
>It\'s in the Oyster spec and it used to be there but I
>deleted it on orders from Mr TJ!
>If we decide we want it back it\'s no problem, just pasting
>the code back from the chalet search pages.
I don\'t see why having a pic list of resorts on a resort search is a good idea, as it does not narrow the search, but rather ensures only one item is selected.
just didn\'t make sense to me, but that shouldn\'t stop it being changed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10007,'Tue Oct 6 22:52:35 1998','login pages',1,0,'
will,
having a bit of fun putting graphics on these, I have chnaged (Login.pm).
I can\'t login (as a new group) subsequent to getting something wrong on the form - it always tells me that i must enter a confirmation password. This appears to be because the form has 2 groupPasswordConfirm fields (one of which is blank - and hidden).
Appologies if I broke this, but please can you have a butchers.
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10008,'Tue Oct 6 23:25:07 1998','Re: login pages',1,10007,'
>will,
>having a bit of fun putting graphics on these, I have chnaged (Login.pm).
>I can\'t login (as a new group) subsequent to getting something wrong on the form - it always tells me that i must enter a confirmation password. This appears to be because the form has 2 groupPasswordConfirm fields (one of which is blank - and hidden).
Further to this we have a problem with loginconfirm passing a value through in param(login), which is annoying the script.
>Appologies if I broke this, but please can you have a butchers.
>Cheers
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10009,'Tue Oct 6 23:26:20 1998','Re: login pages',4,10007,'
>will,
>having a bit of fun putting graphics on these, I have chnaged (Login.pm).
>I can\'t login (as a new group) subsequent to getting something wrong on the form - it always tells me that i must enter a confirmation password. This appears to be because the form has 2 groupPasswordConfirm fields (one of which is blank - and hidden).
>Appologies if I broke this, but please can you have a butchers.
Well the `back\' button from the various `you messed it up\'
screens doesn\'t work at all for me. I suspect this is all
to do with Netscape\'s caching policy---it caches unless
you tell it not to in the header OR, crucially, there is
cgi-bin in the URL, and of course the latter has always
been true before but isn\'t now.
I\'ll have a look in the morning,
bye,
W
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10010,'Tue Oct 6 23:49:47 1998','Details pages',1,0,'
Will,
I have go rid of all the messy frames for the details pages, and have run into trouble with the navigation between them (chalet details- > resort details -> domain details). The problem is maintaining the link back to the original search.
Can I ask you to sort this out (sorry).
Please do the login stuff first.
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10011,'Wed Oct 7 0:00:02 1998','Re: Re: Re: netscape table/cell backgrounds',1,9984,'
>>>Chippy,
>>>Have you ever managed to get these working successfully?
>>Yes. Only Netscape 4, but I haven\'t had a problem.
>me too, it simply isn\'t there in NS3
I can\'t even get it working properly in NS4, images appear for table backgrounds, but get repeated for each cell!!
cell backgrounds with tables in the cells don\'t work any better.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10012,'Wed Oct 7 0:06:35 1998','Re: Re: Database back-up',1,9999,'
>>Someone,
>>IGLU would like a backup of the database for their own purposes, nefarious or what.
>>Tim, would like to set up some server-side code that would be placed in the System Functions part of the database administration WWW pages.
>>So that they can click on it, and donwload the database for backup.
>>Would it be possible for someone to do this?
done
>By the way I have code to dump out the database in SQL
>form, i.e. all the SQL CREATE TABLE and INSERT statements
>which are required to duplicate it. This would make it
>easy to put it into a different database than Access.
may well come in handy...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10013,'Wed Oct 7 9:44:28 1998','Re: Details pages',1,10010,'
>Will, Kruger
Please be a bit careful with these, as you will be working on the same files today.
(William, pick up the latest version from /templates and let kruger know you have it)
>I have go rid of all the messy frames for the details pages, and have run into trouble with the navigation between them (chalet details- > resort details -> domain details). The problem is maintaining the link back to the original search.
>Can I ask you to sort this out (sorry).
>Please do the login stuff first.
>Cheers
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10014,'Wed Oct 7 9:47:51 1998','Re: Re: Details pages',4,10013,'
>>Will, Kruger
>Please be a bit careful with these, as you will be working on the same files today.
Thanks for the warning, actually I\'ve only just started
working this morning, on the login probs, & I\'ll probably
try and reproduce it locally to understand what is
going on.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10015,'Wed Oct 7 9:49:57 1998','Re: Re: login pages',4,10009,'
>Well the `back\' button from the various `you messed it up\'
>screens doesn\'t work at all for me. I suspect this is all
>to do with Netscape\'s caching policy---it caches unless
>you tell it not to in the header OR, crucially, there is
>cgi-bin in the URL, and of course the latter has always
>been true before but isn\'t now.
Oh dear, it\'s obviously not that simple since my copies
of the scripts/templates work fine in a cgi-int directory
(in fact I suppose I would have found it before if that
was the problem).
Next step is to download stuff from the site and see if I
can make it not work here.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10016,'Wed Oct 7 10:43:48 1998','Re: Re: Re: login pages',1,10015,'
>>Well the `back\' button from the various `you messed it up\'
>>screens doesn\'t work at all for me. I suspect this is all
>>to do with Netscape\'s caching policy---it caches unless
>>you tell it not to in the header OR, crucially, there is
>>cgi-bin in the URL, and of course the latter has always
>>been true before but isn\'t now.
anything wrong with:
?
>Oh dear, it\'s obviously not that simple since my copies
>of the scripts/templates work fine in a cgi-int directory
>(in fact I suppose I would have found it before if that
>was the problem).
>Next step is to download stuff from the site and see if I
>can make it not work here.
Yep, it\'s probably got a lot to do with adding the images (changes from input type=submit to input type=image)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10017,'Wed Oct 7 10:44:48 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: login pages',1,10016,'
>>>Well the `back\' button from the various `you messed it up\'
>>>screens doesn\'t work at all for me. I suspect this is all
>>>to do with Netscape\'s caching policy---it caches unless
>>>you tell it not to in the header OR, crucially, there is
>>>cgi-bin in the URL, and of course the latter has always
>>>been true before but isn\'t now.
>anything wrong with:
!@$$!!!@@$$
messageboard, i\'ll try again
a href=\'javascript:history.go(-1)\'
>?
>>Oh dear, it\'s obviously not that simple since my copies
>>of the scripts/templates work fine in a cgi-int directory
>>(in fact I suppose I would have found it before if that
>>was the problem).
>>Next step is to download stuff from the site and see if I
>>can make it not work here.
>Yep, it\'s probably got a lot to do with adding the images (changes from input type=submit to input type=image)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10018,'Wed Oct 7 10:49:00 1998','home button',1,0,'
Krugs,
can you do us a home button (needs to be small and neat at the bottom of all content pages).
I will add it using the templates, but it needs to be there for search engines that refer people into the middle of the site.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10019,'Wed Oct 7 10:54:40 1998','booking templates',1,0,'
Chippy,
Give me a call re how you can help on the booking templates today.
cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10020,'Wed Oct 7 11:08:46 1998','Re: Re: Re: resort search enhancements',1,10006,'
>>>so - could we include on the resort search page a search list
>>>exactly like the \'location(country / resort)\' list in chalet search?
>>>Maybe label this search \'resort\' and the existing \'location\'
>>>search could be labeled \'country\'
>>>comments...
>>Funny you should say that :-)
>>It\'s in the Oyster spec and it used to be there but I
>>deleted it on orders from Mr TJ!
>>If we decide we want it back it\'s no problem, just pasting
>>the code back from the chalet search pages.
>
>I don\'t see why having a pic list of resorts on a resort search is a good idea, as it does not narrow the search, but rather ensures only one item is selected.
>just didn\'t make sense to me, but that shouldn\'t stop it being changed.
Well, this has been explained to me, basically, people tend to know where they want to go, and are just interested in seeing the details for the resort and the chalet list. So, lets do it (sorry will).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10021,'Wed Oct 7 11:37:53 1998','resort search - ski difficulty',23,0,'
can we have another drop down search box - \'ski difficulty\'
featuring:
beginner
intermediate
expert
any level
all levels
Ben has a simple algorithm that will work out a resorts
ski diffuculty index from the proprotions of slope types.
He will post it to this thread soon
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10022,'Wed Oct 7 11:42:31 1998','found the problem',4,10017,'
>>Yep, it\'s probably got a lot to do with adding the images (changes from input type=submit to input type=image)
You are dead right, it\'s an absolutely egregious bug in
Netscape. When you click on an INPUT TYPE=image it doesn\'t
update the form data but rather uses the values it last
used.
In my case when I pointed a form at Apache\'s CGI echo
program it gave me test values I used two weeks ago!!!!!
Tell me where it got that from?
The only solution is to replace it with an
0;.submit()>
construct---details to follow, wait on ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10023,'Wed Oct 7 11:45:35 1998','!@&#^$%!^#&$^',4,10022,'
>>Yep, it\'s probably got a lot to do with adding the images (changes from input type=submit to input type=image)
You are dead right, it\'s an absolutely egregious bug in
Netscape. When you click on an INPUT TYPE=image it doesn\'t
update the form data but rather uses the values it last
used.
In my case when I pointed a form at Apache\'s CGI echo
program it gave me test values I used two weeks ago!!!!!
Tell me where it got that from?
The only solution is to replace it with an
construct---details to follow, wait on ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10024,'Wed Oct 7 11:47:33 1998','purple screen of death',4,10023,'
>>Yep, it\'s probably got a lot to do with adding the images (changes from input type=submit to input type=image)
You are dead right, it\'s an absolutely egregious bug in
Netscape. When you click on an INPUT TYPE=image it doesn\'t
update the form data but rather uses the values it last
used.
In my case when I pointed a form at Apache\'s CGI echo
program it gave me test values I used two weeks ago!!!!!
Tell me where it got that from?
The only solution is to replace it with an
A HREF=javascript:document.forms(0).submit()
+++please substitute square brackets around the zero+++
construct---details to follow, wait on ...
On the subject of escaping what happens if I put
+++
ATH
&@%(*@$5 no carrier
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10025,'Wed Oct 7 11:50:06 1998','another thing',4,10007,'
In the course of fiddling I have changed Template.pm
to handle INPUT TYPE=IMAGE correctly (even though it
turns out we can\'t use them!) and CGIUtil.pm to
enhance handling of [[ formFields ]] construct---
for completeness I would like to change
[[ formFields ]] to [[ formFields EXCEPT login ]] in
most of the Login*.html templates.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10026,'Wed Oct 7 11:56:46 1998','Here\'s what to do',4,10024,'
This works for me. I\'m not even going to TRY and escape it,
sorry! What follows will be garbage on the message web site.
We can make a little construct to generate these automatically
but then of course the links won\'t show up in the templates
as links.
We could, better still, automagically replace instances of
INPUT TYPE=IMAGE with snippets like this as appropriate.
i
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10027,'Wed Oct 7 12:13:13 1998','belay all that, william confused',4,10026,'
This is all William getting confused, don\'t worry.
(Going to make some more coffee.)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10028,'Wed Oct 7 12:16:00 1998','just a little more action from william required',1,10005,'
Will, can we also look for the following in IgluPage::templateExpansion:
by example:
BODY background="../../images/template_back2.jpg"
and
input type="image" value=Update src="../../images/update.gif"
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10029,'Wed Oct 7 12:23:38 1998','Re: Re: fixed, but requires a little action from timj/myles',1,10005,'
>> IMG SRC=/images => $IgluPage::template_images_url
>>the former being in fact http://www.iglu.com/templates/images
>this has been changed to http://www.iglu.com/images
>since, of course, it broke all the templates ...
I have done all of /administration
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10030,'Wed Oct 7 12:47:27 1998','fixed',4,10028,'
>Will, can we also look for the following in IgluPage::templateExpansion:
>by example:
>BODY background="../../images/template_back2.jpg"
>and
>input type="image" value=Update src="../../images/update.gif"
>Cheers
>Tim
done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10031,'Wed Oct 7 12:49:42 1998','resort search -altitude',23,0,'
Also
can we have an altitude search on the following criteria
Any
below 1000m
above 1000m
above 1500m
above 2000m
(ie \'above 1000\' includes anything above 1000m, NOT between 1000 - 1500 (its a ski thing))
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10032,'Wed Oct 7 12:57:17 1998','immediate problem fixed, but ...',4,10007,'
Well the login stuff now navigates successfully.
However, I\'m getting two problems:
the "Delete" (why isn\'t it called Cancel or Back?) from the login
screen doesn\'t do the right thing
---related obviously to the fact that it is actually reloading
a form rather than just going back---does it behave
differently with TYPE=IMAGE I wonder?
I once got an error from deep in W32ODBC that its
AUTOLOAD was missing or something---unfortunately
can\'t reproduce it :(
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10033,'Wed Oct 7 12:58:44 1998','FIXED',1,10030,'
All (especially kruger)
We can now develop the templates with images working within them (the scripts will adjust the images directory).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10034,'Wed Oct 7 13:12:27 1998','TEXTAREA expansion problem',2,0,'
A TEXTAREA is being treated as a TEXT input box
for expansion by Template.pm
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10035,'Wed Oct 7 13:13:07 1998','FIXED',2,10034,'
>A TEXTAREA is being treated as a TEXT input box
>for expansion by Template.pm
Note that Template.pm has now been changed!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10036,'Wed Oct 7 13:20:44 1998','Re: immediate problem fixed, but ...',4,10032,'
>the "Delete" (why isn\'t it called Cancel or Back?) from the login
>screen doesn\'t do the right thing
>---related obviously to the fact that it is actually reloading
>a form rather than just going back---does it behave
>differently with TYPE=IMAGE I wonder?
That seems to be the case in fact.
I\'m not having a brainstorm this time, I hope.
There is a `back\' pointer available if you have
come from &chaletShortlistURL (see IgluPage.pm).
I can use
TYPE=SUBMIT ONCLICK=\'document.location="{{ $_form->param(\'_back\') }}"; return false\'
but I just can\'t make it go with TYPE=IMAGE---I just get the
same page back, not the back-pointed one.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10037,'Wed Oct 7 13:29:06 1998','Re: FIXED',4,10035,'
>>A TEXTAREA is being treated as a TEXT input box
>>for expansion by Template.pm
>Note that Template.pm has now been changed!
It\'s been changed again to fix the problem rather
than the symptom
(I had put =~ /^TEXT|PASSWORD$/ rather than
=~ /^(TEXT|PASSWORD)$/,
sorry)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10038,'Wed Oct 7 15:29:11 1998','Re: immediate problem fixed, but ...',2,10032,'
>Well the login stuff now navigates successfully.
>However, I\'m getting two problems:
>the "Delete" (why isn\'t it called Cancel or Back?) from the login
>screen doesn\'t do the right thing
>---related obviously to the fact that it is actually reloading
>a form rather than just going back---does it behave
>differently with TYPE=IMAGE I wonder?
????
>I once got an error from deep in W32ODBC that its
>AUTOLOAD was missing or something---unfortunately
>can\'t reproduce it :(
I got this when I used
IgluPage::templateExpansion($iglu, $form, [], $template);
i.e. when I did not remove the first 2 arguments (which
the IgluPage::templateExpansion is not expecting)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10039,'Wed Oct 7 17:41:30 1998','fixed',4,10031,'
>Also
>can we have an altitude search on the following criteria
>Any
>below 1000m
>above 1000m
>above 1500m
>above 2000m
>(ie \'above 1000\' includes anything above 1000m, NOT between 1000 - 1500 (its a ski thing))
noted :)
As usual the search is inclusive (altreslow-to-altreshigh
overlaps with given range, doesn\'t have to be included
in it) and includes resorts for which altres... is not
defined.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10040,'Wed Oct 7 17:51:05 1998','fixed, though NB ...',4,10020,'
>Well, this has been explained to me, basically, people tend to know where they want to go, and are just interested in seeing the details for the resort and the chalet list. So, lets do it (sorry will).
It does look a bit odd, I agree :).
I have left it with the following "interesting" semantics:
if you choose a particular resort from `location\', and
then add a search criterion which it doesn\'t meet,
you get no results.
Comments?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10041,'Wed Oct 7 18:34:43 1998','Inconsistency',2,0,'
On the Login page, we use "Personal name" and "Family name"
and on the booking page we use "First name" and "Surname".
Which is right?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10042,'Wed Oct 7 19:07:52 1998','Re: Inconsistency',4,10041,'
>On the Login page, we use "Personal name" and "Family name"
>and on the booking page we use "First name" and "Surname".
>Which is right?
"Family name" is a bit laboured, "Personal name" even more
so, but not all cultures put names in the same order so I
thought ...
But personally I would, on reflection, go with first/sur.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10043,'Wed Oct 7 20:16:25 1998','Re: fixed, though NB ...',23,10040,'
>>Well, this has been explained to me, basically, people tend to know where they want to go, and are just interested in seeing the details for the resort and the chalet list. So, lets do it (sorry will).
>It does look a bit odd, I agree :).
>I have left it with the following "interesting" semantics:
>if you choose a particular resort from `location\', and
>then add a search criterion which it doesn\'t meet,
>you get no results.
>Comments?
I was kinda thinking more along the lines of keeping the
original country list and having the actual resort list as a separate option.
I agree that this does create a potential confusion if you
attempt to include the resort search with other criteria.
Soooo - maybe we could offer the resort finder as a separate thing
with some wording such as:
\'either
find a particular resort by name...
or
search for a suitable resort useng these criteria...\'
???
is this getting too complicated?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10044,'Wed Oct 7 20:23:49 1998','Re: Re: Re: price search',23,9933,'
>>fyi it can parse a fairly wide range of English range expressions
>>so changing the ranges is extremely straightforward for
>>the end user
>
>a more reasonable list of ranges is:
>less than £50
>£50 to £100
>£101 to £200
>£201 to £500
>more than £500
>is this ok?
this hasnt gone in yet. Not desparately urgent - just flagging up.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10045,'Wed Oct 7 20:49:23 1998','resort search - creche facilities',23,0,'
can we change the \'creche facilities\' search to
\'childrens facilities\' - and then just look in the
creche and nursery fields to see if theres anything
in either?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10046,'Wed Oct 7 21:43:44 1998','fixed',4,10044,'
>this hasnt gone in yet. Not desparately urgent - just flagging up.
sorry, it was so trivial noone got round to it :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10047,'Wed Oct 7 22:04:44 1998','Re: Re: FIXED',1,10037,'
>>>A TEXTAREA is being treated as a TEXT input box
>>>for expansion by Template.pm
>>Note that Template.pm has now been changed!
>It\'s been changed again to fix the problem rather
>than the symptom
>(I had put =~ /^TEXT|PASSWORD$/ rather than
> =~ /^(TEXT|PASSWORD)$/,
>sorry)
Along the same lines?:
a magic value in a textarea is not being substituted (take a look at chaletshortlist comments)
this is very strange.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10048,'Wed Oct 7 22:05:14 1998','Templates',2,0,'
The following images are needed for the booking pages
BookingForm.html
(see http://194.128.98.18/cgi-int/booking/booking_form.pl?id=37 )
\'Delete\' and the second \'Submit\' are great, but the first \'Submit\'
should be \'Add member\' or similar
BookingResponse.html
(see http://194.128.98.18/cgi-int/booking/booking_response.pl?id=9)
The first image at the bottom is \'Proceed\' or \'submit\' and the
second is \'reject\' or \'reject offer\'
Click the proceed button to get to...
BookingResponse.html
The image at the bottom should be "Confirm"
Otherwise, it all looks great.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10049,'Wed Oct 7 22:14:04 1998','fixed (one uncritical annoyance)',4,10010,'
done now, it all works splendidly
NOTE NOTE NOTE
I have changed several among Details_*.html
There are a few pages (like resort chalet list) which
are dead ends under the new scheme, but I presume they
are in the process of being redesigned along the lines
of domain chalet list.
On which subject:
There is no link back to the current chalet at the top of
domain chalet list; if you try to put it in you will get
a nasty grey error screen. At the present I can\'t say
why :(.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10050,'Wed Oct 7 23:40:23 1998','FIXED',1,9995,'
>In the admin/edit property - is it possible to create a duplicate
>of the \'duplicate\' button at the bottom and put it at the top.
>(this makes life easier at the data entry level)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10051,'Wed Oct 7 23:50:17 1998','altitude',1,10039,'
>As usual the search is inclusive (altreslow-to-altreshigh
>overlaps with given range, doesn\'t have to be included
>in it) and includes resorts for which altres... is not
>defined.
don\'t like this, by including undefines, the impression is given that a resort fits the criteria, which it may well not (in reality).
Can we exclude undefines (except for an \'any\' search)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10052,'Wed Oct 7 23:56:07 1998','Re: Re: fixed, though NB ...',1,10043,'
>>>Well, this has been explained to me, basically, people tend to know where they want to go, and are just interested in seeing the details for the resort and the chalet list. So, lets do it (sorry will).
>>It does look a bit odd, I agree :).
>>I have left it with the following "interesting" semantics:
>>if you choose a particular resort from `location\', and
>>then add a search criterion which it doesn\'t meet,
>>you get no results.
>>Comments?
>I was kinda thinking more along the lines of keeping the
>original country list and having the actual resort list as a separate option.
>I agree that this does create a potential confusion if you
>attempt to include the resort search with other criteria.
>Soooo - maybe we could offer the resort finder as a separate thing
>with some wording such as:
>\'either
>find a particular resort by name...
>or
>search for a suitable resort useng these criteria...\'
>???
>is this getting too complicated?
yep, to complicated.
I think the dropdown works fine, if you want to search in a country you can use " Any". It\'s also nice because you don\'t end up with loads of countries with no ski resorts (a pain in the old drop-down) (unintentional..... really! :).
I do think though that we can be kind to the user. If they select an individual resort, they should get it, whatever the put in the other criteria.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10053,'Wed Oct 7 23:57:51 1998','Re: Templates',1,10048,'
Krugs, can you do these please:
>The following images are needed for the booking pages
>BookingForm.html
>(see http://194.128.98.18/cgi-int/booking/booking_form.pl?id=37 )
>\'Delete\' and the second \'Submit\' are great, but the first \'Submit\'
>should be \'Add member\' or similar
>BookingResponse.html
>(see http://194.128.98.18/cgi-int/booking/booking_response.pl?id=9)
>The first image at the bottom is \'Proceed\' or \'submit\' and the
>second is \'reject\' or \'reject offer\'
>Click the proceed button to get to...
>BookingResponse.html
>The image at the bottom should be "Confirm"
>Otherwise, it all looks great.
>Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10054,'Thu Oct 8 0:18:34 1998','Eat me',1,0,'
Will,
why when I have img src=$picpath, and $picpath is undef, does my image tag not get eaten?
Only on Chalet and Resort Results (works fine on details).
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10055,'Thu Oct 8 0:47:39 1998','new templates',1,0,'
I have changed many templates, please get the new ones from the site before chanign anything.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10056,'Thu Oct 8 0:50:20 1998','Fixed (it works for me)',1,10049,'
>done now, it all works splendidly
>NOTE NOTE NOTE
>I have changed several among Details_*.html
>There are a few pages (like resort chalet list) which
>are dead ends under the new scheme, but I presume they
>are in the process of being redesigned along the lines
>of domain chalet list.
>On which subject:
>There is no link back to the current chalet at the top of
>domain chalet list; if you try to put it in you will get
>a nasty grey error screen. At the present I can\'t say
>why :(.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10057,'Thu Oct 8 0:54:38 1998','forward shortlist',1,0,'
Will,
When I get my email address wrong on forward shortlist, and click back, my form fields are unpopulated. should they be?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10058,'Thu Oct 8 0:55:34 1998','table cells and rows',1,0,'
anybody habitually not close table cells and rows?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10059,'Thu Oct 8 0:56:20 1998','vlink color',1,0,'
Krugs,
this is too light, you think?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10060,'Thu Oct 8 0:57:20 1998','pictures',23,0,'
Tim
160x100 pix seems a happy size for the photos.
there are some examples in "alaska (small a), Arêches-Beaufort
At this size there is some room to play with on the right...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10061,'Thu Oct 8 0:58:24 1998','sleeps and beds',23,0,'
the number of sleeps info doesnt seem to be accurate.
It only ever seems to display 2 bedrooms ( even if there are more)
and the beds info isnt right.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10062,'Thu Oct 8 0:59:18 1998','icq',1,0,'
i think that as we are all spending much time on line, and telephones, icq might be a good idea (at least worth a try).
can we have a go?
my number is 10106549
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10063,'Thu Oct 8 1:04:00 1998','getting to shortlist ',23,0,'
Its still quite hard to get straight to your shortlist
should you want to (maybe if you built it in a previous
session and want to look at it again)
Maybe we could rethink putting a direct link in the nav frame...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10064,'Thu Oct 8 8:48:21 1998','Re: getting to shortlist ',4,10063,'
>Maybe we could rethink putting a direct link in the nav frame...
seconded!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10065,'Thu Oct 8 9:25:23 1998','fixed',4,10061,'
> the number of sleeps info doesnt seem to be accurate.
>It only ever seems to display 2 bedrooms ( even if there are more)
>and the beds info isnt right.
I don\'t know about the beds info not being right,
seems fine now anyway.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10066,'Thu Oct 8 9:47:37 1998','ecommerce agreement',1,0,'
Iglu need to fill out the 2 forms at:
http://securetrading.com/download/documents/merchants/applications/
and fax them to Secure Trading
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10067,'Thu Oct 8 10:01:09 1998','fixed',4,10054,'
>Will,
>why when I have img src=$picpath, and $picpath is undef, does my image tag not get eaten?
>Only on Chalet and Resort Results (works fine on details).
>Tim
This was buried rather deep in DBIUtil, with fetchrow_hashref
mapping undefined fields to \'\' for some long-forgotten
reason. I have stopped it doing that; it\'s conceivable
that it will break something but I don\'t think we can
leave it in since it is rather an anomaly.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10068,'Thu Oct 8 10:11:48 1998','unclosed TABLE in Chalet/ResortShortlistForward',4,0,'
Netscape 4 (Linux anyway) gives a blank page if you have
an unclosed TABLE---there was one at the top of each of
Chalet/ResortShortlistForward.html, so I took em out,
hope they weren\'t meant to be closed?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10069,'Thu Oct 8 10:15:09 1998','Re: forward shortlist',4,10057,'
>Will,
>When I get my email address wrong on forward shortlist, and click back, my form fields are unpopulated. should they be?
Oh dear, it\'s worse than that for me, `back\' doesn\'t
go back at all.
This is another instance of history.go(-1) apparnetly
working differently with an image button. (Would some
care to verify this independently?)
I\'ll change it to a proper URL.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10070,'Thu Oct 8 10:50:03 1998','ecommerce',1,0,'
chippy,
check out: http://securetrading.com/download/ssl-scripts/
for instructions.
These guys seem very helpful, we have signed a partner agreement (hoop ltd). If you have any problems, call Reese Jones or Keith Wood.
have fun
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10071,'Thu Oct 8 10:55:51 1998','Re: Re: getting to shortlist ',1,10064,'
>>Maybe we could rethink putting a direct link in the nav frame...
>seconded!
thirded!
we\'ll tackle this as part of phase 3 (from monday)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10072,'Thu Oct 8 11:44:19 1998','fixed',4,10069,'
>This is another instance of history.go(-1) apparnetly
>working differently with an image button. (Would some
>care to verify this independently?)
apparently a linux-specific problem
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10073,'Thu Oct 8 11:45:04 1998','chalet - more details',23,0,'
when I hit the \'more deatails\' link from chalet search results I get:
(Netscape only - IE works fine)
Error
Expanding code and variables in template
Query SELECT * FROM pricing WHERE pricing.property = ORDER BY startdate:
[-3100] 641; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression \'pricing.property =\'."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10074,'Thu Oct 8 11:55:12 1998','fixed --- I think you hit it halfway through an upgrade',4,10073,'
>when I hit the \'more deatails\' link from chalet search results I get:
>(Netscape only - IE works fine)
>Error
>Expanding code and variables in template
>Query SELECT * FROM pricing WHERE pricing.property = ORDER BY startdate:
>[-3100] 641; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression \'pricing.property =\'."
works fine for me, symptom consistent with you hitting
it halfway through me uploading some stuff a moment ago
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10075,'Thu Oct 8 12:02:35 1998','Re: pictures',1,9987,'
>John,
>For the pictures, we should not put the IP address or domain name in the path, rather use:
>/pictures/....
For Anchorage, Courchevel, the path still has a http:// in front of it, can we please just use /pictures
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10076,'Thu Oct 8 12:28:20 1998','domain details',1,0,'
Will,
this you, or kruger?
Error
Expanding code and variables in templateAccessing lazy variable `property_id\'Looking up field property_idFinding where field property_id occurs relative to table skidomainUndefined path
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10077,'Thu Oct 8 12:43:10 1998','Re: fixed --- I think you hit it halfway through an upgrade',23,10074,'
>>when I hit the \'more deatails\' link from chalet search results I get:
>>(Netscape only - IE works fine)
>>Error
>>Expanding code and variables in template
>>Query SELECT * FROM pricing WHERE pricing.property = ORDER BY startdate:
>>[-3100] 641; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression \'pricing.property =\'."
>works fine for me, symptom consistent with you hitting
>it halfway through me uploading some stuff a moment ago
afraid Im still getting this - could it be another Netscape 4.5b1 issue
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10078,'Thu Oct 8 12:45:53 1998','Re: Re: pictures',23,10075,'
>>John,
>>For the pictures, we should not put the IP address or domain name in the path, rather use:
>>/pictures/....
>For Anchorage, Courchevel, the path still has a http:// in front of it, can we please just use /pictures
Tim
Im on this. All the new paths will go in aright
the existing ones will be changed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10079,'Thu Oct 8 12:54:17 1998','Re: icq',3,10062,'
TimJ>my number is 10106549
TimP>my number is 9748434
Myles has had difficulties getting ICQ to work from behind Winproxy, but I am sure he can figure it out :)
yours
TimP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10080,'Thu Oct 8 13:04:01 1998','update shortlist',23,0,'
Update shortlist is giving me a:
\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\search\ResortShortlist.pl\' script produced no output
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10081,'Thu Oct 8 13:05:13 1998','Re: Re: fixed --- I think you hit it halfway through an upgrade',4,10077,'
>>>when I hit the \'more deatails\' link from chalet search results I get:
>>>(Netscape only - IE works fine)
>afraid Im still getting this - could it be another Netscape 4.5b1 issue
so is anyone else seeing this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10082,'Thu Oct 8 13:53:57 1998','Re: resort search - ski difficulty',20,10021,'
>can we have another drop down search box - \'ski difficulty\'
>featuring:
>beginner
>intermediate
>expert
>any level
>all levels
>Ben has a simple algorithm that will work out a resorts
>ski diffuculty index from the proprotions of slope types.
>He will post it to this thread soon
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10083,'Thu Oct 8 13:58:29 1998','Re: resort search - ski difficulty',20,10021,'
>can we have another drop down search box - \'ski difficulty\'
>featuring:
>beginner
>intermediate
>expert
>any level
>all levels
>Ben has a simple algorithm that will work out a resorts
>ski diffuculty index from the proprotions of slope types.
>He will post it to this thread soon
-> This calculates a difficulty index between 100 and 400
-> for a resort
Calculate the total number of slopes
Calcualte the percentages of each of the 4 types of slope
-> Now calcualte the index
For each percentage point of green slopes score 1
For each percentage point of blue slopes score 2
For each percentage point of red slopes score 3
For each percentage point of black slopes score 4
You now have an index between 100 and 400, for resort difficulty.
I suggest 5 categories for the difficulty:
Any
Beginner
Intermediate
Advanced
Export
All though other categories such as: Basic, Fair, Good may be useful
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10084,'Thu Oct 8 14:20:47 1998','why comments not appearing in shortlist ...',4,0,'
this was because a certain person who shall remain
nameless had arranged for the contents of all
textareas in templates to be deleted
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10085,'Thu Oct 8 14:22:33 1998','Re: update shortlist',4,10080,'
>Update shortlist is giving me a:
>\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\search\ResortShortlist.pl\' script produced no output
can\'t reproduce this, sorry
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10086,'Thu Oct 8 14:30:35 1998','fixed',4,10076,'
>Will,
>this you, or kruger?
me, sorry
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10087,'Thu Oct 8 14:42:32 1998','Re: Re: update shortlist',1,10085,'
>>Update shortlist is giving me a:
>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\search\ResortShortlist.pl\' script produced no output
>can\'t reproduce this, sorry
I can, from the resorts result page "add to shortlist"
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10088,'Thu Oct 8 14:44:31 1998','Re: Re: Re: fixed --- I think you hit it halfway through an upgrade',1,10081,'
>>>>when I hit the \'more deatails\' link from chalet search results I get:
>>>>(Netscape only - IE works fine)
>>afraid Im still getting this - could it be another Netscape 4.5b1 issue
>so is anyone else seeing this?
No, but sounds like those problems you had last week, did they just go away, or did you change anything?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10089,'Thu Oct 8 15:03:29 1998','fixed',4,10087,'
>>>Update shortlist is giving me a:
>>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\search\ResortShortlist.pl\' script produced no output
>>can\'t reproduce this, sorry
>I can, from the resorts result page "add to shortlist"
>Tim
sorry, i didn\'t try that but it seems to have got fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10090,'Thu Oct 8 15:14:48 1998','Re: Re: resort search - ski difficulty',4,10083,'
>I suggest 5 categories for the difficulty:
>Any
>Beginner
>Intermediate
>Advanced
>Export
^^^^^^ :-)
Sounds nice,
Where do you recommend the different categories cut in
on the points scale?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10091,'Thu Oct 8 16:04:00 1998','booking',1,0,'
Will,
can you look at these 2 for me:
book using shortlist button has no href. I think we broke it.
book now button on chalet results does not add the chalet to a shortlist before proceeding to the booking screen.
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10092,'Thu Oct 8 16:08:57 1998','Prices Table - pricing units',20,0,'
All,
Here is a definitive list of pricing units:
per apartment per night
per apartment per week
per chalet per week
per person per week
per person per night
per person per two weeks
per room per night (based on 2 people)
per room per night (based on 3 people)
per room per night (based on 4 people)
per room per night (based on 5 people)
This list, will be the list used for pricing units, any other info will go in an new field called: \'Extras\' which will be a \'Memo\' field.
The \'per room per night (based on 2 people)\' style records are for hotels, where rooms, are based for a set number of poeple. It is the absolute price to be paid for the room and is not multiplied by anything.
Confused? I was.
Ben Janes.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10093,'Thu Oct 8 16:12:33 1998','Re: Re: Re: resort search - ski difficulty',20,10090,'
>>I suggest 5 categories for the difficulty:
>>Any
>>Beginner
>>Intermediate
>>Advanced
>>Export
> ^^^^^^ :-)
>Sounds nice,
>Where do you recommend the different categories cut in
>on the points scale?
The split points i suggest:
100 - 175 Beginner
176 - 250 Intermediate
251 - 325 Advanced
326+ Expert <- See I can spell in context!!!
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10094,'Thu Oct 8 16:51:06 1998','(fixed)',4,10047,'
>a magic value in a textarea is not being substituted (take a look at chaletshortlist comments)
>this is very strange.
(see prev msg)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10095,'Thu Oct 8 17:06:49 1998','iglupage.pm',1,0,'
Will,
have you just clobbered this?
if so, please can you put back $iglupage::html_url (set to $root/html)
cheers
tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10096,'Thu Oct 8 17:11:58 1998','booking management: new booking',1,0,'
Chippy,
when i have a new booking, all time fields have a : in them, can we loose it please.
tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10097,'Thu Oct 8 17:13:26 1998','fixed',4,10095,'
>Will,
>have you just clobbered this?
>if so, please can you put back $iglupage::html_url (set to $root/html)
>cheers
>tim
done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10098,'Thu Oct 8 17:47:41 1998','phone/fax nos',23,0,'
can we make the phone and fax numbers and email address
in the top frame bigger / bolder / more visible?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10099,'Thu Oct 8 20:03:50 1998','Details_Resort_Chaletlist.html',1,0,'
Kruger,
We seem to have zapped this (is suspect william!! :), can you put back your latest version.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10100,'Thu Oct 8 20:07:07 1998','FIXED',1,9689,'
>Change field name of \'Date\' to CommentDate
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10101,'Thu Oct 8 20:10:19 1998','FIXED',1,9818,'
>Need to think about use of frames (probably remove them)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10102,'Thu Oct 8 20:11:12 1998','FIXED',1,9782,'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10103,'Thu Oct 8 20:12:01 1998','FIXED',1,9961,'
>>All,
>>Can we please use
>>http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/administration/our_details.pl
>>as the script to name when sending info on emails (shortlists and bookings), this will build teh frame set etc so things look cool.
>>to set the script query string:
>>subject=script_name
>>and an option id=n
>>for a complete (working) example:
>>http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/administration/our_details.pl?subject=booking_form&id=9
>>this script will live in /cgi-bin after the tidy up.
>
>This doesn\'t work.
>Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10104,'Thu Oct 8 20:13:38 1998','FIXED',1,9953,'
>>NB things don\'t line up perfectly and are strangely
>>different sizes---I don\'t know if netscape/linux is
>>different from netscape/win.
>Kruger is preparing netscape only design. Cos Netscape is just no good at it. Have you had a look in IE :-)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10105,'Thu Oct 8 20:15:12 1998','FIXED',1,9853,'
>>>>1) I am not sure about the animation, I think we could use a smoother (classier) animation using Flash technology. Comments?
>>>If that happens then I\'m off the case. You can\'t get
>>>the plugin for Linux.
>>sorry, meant to add: :-)
>Well, you have the source, why don\'t you invest an afternoon and write the plug-in :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10106,'Thu Oct 8 20:15:48 1998','FIXED',1,9867,'
>>Tim,
>>>I have put together the plan for phase 2 (see amended plan on paneris/iglu).
>>>Please take a look and let me know if I have got anything wrong.
>>
>>One why is the deadline so soon?
>>Surley it would be better to consolidate, bug fix etc
>>then start Phase 2 on 01//11/98, let alone finish then.
>Did this today. Trouble is that people are booking skiing hols right now, so we have to push on.
>>Secondly I thought I was pencilled in for messageboards?
>Sorry, (timJ calls timP to straighten this out)
>>If the deadlines have to be as tight as they are then
>>I probably couldn\'t get up to speed in time, and it is
>>probably best to keep the racing team together.
>not so tight anymore, we\'ve done the tough bit.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10107,'Thu Oct 8 20:20:03 1998','FIXED',1,9908,'
>Tim,
>Kruger\'s email address has stopped working,
>is this connected with cgi-int no longer being executable?
>Did they has a disaster?
>yours
>timP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10108,'Thu Oct 8 21:42:24 1998','Re: RadsGroup authority',1,9684,'
Action Chippy
>Wire up booking to Secure Trading, and build in 2nd payment to booking process.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10109,'Thu Oct 8 21:43:52 1998','Archiving of messageboard',1,0,'
I have got rid of all the fixed items on the messageboard, they have benn archived on the iglu site.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10110,'Thu Oct 8 22:00:39 1998','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10111,'Thu Oct 8 22:03:51 1998','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10112,'Fri Oct 9 0:41:42 1998','Domain Info',23,0,'
when in the domain section
a) the label at the top says \'search for chalet\'
b) the ski pass price table is out of wack (I think the price is in the wrong cell)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10113,'Fri Oct 9 0:44:39 1998','Booking',23,0,'
a tiny point
the boxes for the date to leave and date to return fields are too small to display a whole date as ddmmyyyy
also - should these labels be so UK centric?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10114,'Fri Oct 9 0:46:32 1998','search for resort',23,0,'
another tiny point
theres an icon labelled \'property\' on this page that doesnt do anything
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10115,'Fri Oct 9 0:47:35 1998','owners login',23,0,'
the owners login link leads to an empty page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10116,'Fri Oct 9 0:50:08 1998','jolly well done',23,0,'
its all looking rather good -
congratulations gentlemen
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10117,'Fri Oct 9 2:55:31 1998','Iglu Bug Board (sic)',3,0,'
At 22:08 08/10/98 +0100, TimJ wrote:
>Re: messageboards
>
>Tim,
>
>It\'s beat me!
>
>/partners/apr/iglu messages has a odd effect of duplicating the input boxed
>when a new message is posted. This also occurs on an unused messageboard at
>a new node.
>
I am afraid it was because you deleted the end of message 1,
as that is hardcoded into the hideous tag parser built into
multiboard.
I have hacked it, but no elegant fix, as that would be a
rewrite.
yours
TimP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10118,'Fri Oct 9 10:20:48 1998','Re: Iglu Bug Board (sic)',1,10117,'
>At 22:08 08/10/98 +0100, TimJ wrote:
>>Re: messageboards
>>
>>Tim,
>>
>>It\'s beat me!
>>
>>/partners/apr/iglu messages has a odd effect of duplicating the input boxed
>>when a new message is posted. This also occurs on an unused messageboard at
>>a new node.
>>
>I am afraid it was because you deleted the end of message 1,
>as that is hardcoded into the hideous tag parser built into
>multiboard.
>I have hacked it, but no elegant fix, as that would be a
>rewrite.
Tim, thanks loads for this, please log the time you spent on the PMS under iglu - task = spare capacity, or misc small tasks.
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10119,'Fri Oct 9 10:27:08 1998','FIXED',1,10115,'
>the owners login link leads to an empty page
Will - please note I have changed IgluPage.pm
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10120,'Fri Oct 9 10:30:50 1998','FIXED',1,10116,'
>its all looking rather good -
>congratulations gentlemen
Cheers, I think it looks fab
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10121,'Fri Oct 9 10:31:03 1998','FIXED',1,10118,'
>>At 22:08 08/10/98 +0100, TimJ wrote:
>>>Re: messageboards
>>>
>>>Tim,
>>>
>>>It\'s beat me!
>>>
>>>/partners/apr/iglu messages has a odd effect of duplicating the input boxed
>>>when a new message is posted. This also occurs on an unused messageboard at
>>>a new node.
>>>
>>I am afraid it was because you deleted the end of message 1,
>>as that is hardcoded into the hideous tag parser built into
>>multiboard.
>>I have hacked it, but no elegant fix, as that would be a
>>rewrite.
>Tim, thanks loads for this, please log the time you spent on the PMS under iglu - task = spare capacity, or misc small tasks.
>Cheers
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10122,'Fri Oct 9 10:31:22 1998','FIXED',1,10114,'
>another tiny point
>theres an icon labelled \'property\' on this page that doesnt do anything
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10123,'Fri Oct 9 10:37:42 1998','Re: Booking',1,10113,'
>a tiny point
>the boxes for the date to leave and date to return fields are too small to display a whole date as ddmmyyyy
>also - should these labels be so UK centric?
Fixed uk centricity. My dates dispaly great in both IE and NS, how many chars are you missing?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10124,'Fri Oct 9 10:51:39 1998','Re: Domain Info',1,10112,'
>when in the domain section
>a) the label at the top says \'search for chalet\'
I thought this was ok as searching for a chalet is typically what you are doing. can be changed to \'Domain Information\' if u like.
>b) the ski pass price table is out of wack (I think the price is in the wrong cell)
Fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10125,'Fri Oct 9 10:52:04 1998','FIXED',1,10111,'
>test
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10126,'Fri Oct 9 10:52:21 1998','FIXED',1,10109,'
>I have got rid of all the fixed items on the messageboard, they have benn archived on the iglu site.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10127,'Fri Oct 9 10:52:38 1998','FIXED',1,10098,'
>can we make the phone and fax numbers and email address
>in the top frame bigger / bolder / more visible?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10128,'Fri Oct 9 10:53:22 1998','FIXED',1,10091,'
>Will,
>can you look at these 2 for me:
>book using shortlist button has no href. I think we broke it.
>book now button on chalet results does not add the chalet to a shortlist before proceeding to the booking screen.
>Cheers
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10129,'Fri Oct 9 10:53:47 1998','FIXED',1,10084,'
Re: why comments not appearing in shortlist ...
>this was because a certain person who shall remain
>nameless had arranged for the contents of all
>textareas in templates to be deleted
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10130,'Fri Oct 9 10:55:19 1998','Re: Re: Booking',23,10123,'
>>a tiny point
>>the boxes for the date to leave and date to return fields are too small to display a whole date as ddmmyyyy
>>also - should these labels be so UK centric?
>Fixed uk centricity. My dates dispaly great in both IE and NS, how many chars are you missing?
I was losing 2 characters, but this was in NS3 on my machine at home where I may have unfriendly system font settings.
its not a problem with IE & NS4
lets call it fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10131,'Fri Oct 9 11:07:03 1998','Re: Re: Domain Info',23,10124,'
>>when in the domain section
>>a) the label at the top says \'search for chalet\'
>I thought this was ok as searching for a chalet is typically what you are doing. can be changed to \'Domain Information\' if u like.
you can also get to the domain info from the resort details
in which case the label changes from \'search for resort\' to \'search for chalet\'
I think \'domain information\' would cure this.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10132,'Fri Oct 9 11:11:09 1998','FIXED',1,10018,'
>Krugs,
>can you do us a home button (needs to be small and neat at the bottom of all content pages).
>I will add it using the templates, but it needs to be there for search engines that refer people into the middle of the site.
This will only be added to static pages as search engines wil not index dynamic pages, so there is no way someone can get refered straight into the site to a dynamic page.
I have updated about iglu
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10133,'Fri Oct 9 11:15:38 1998','Re: Re: Iglu Bug Board (sic)',3,10118,'
>>At 22:08 08/10/98 +0100, TimJ wrote:
>>>Re: messageboards
>>>
>>>Tim,
>>>
>>>It\'s beat me!
>>>
>>>/partners/apr/iglu messages has a odd effect of duplicating the input boxed
>>>when a new message is posted. This also occurs on an unused messageboard at
>>>a new node.
>>>
>>I am afraid it was because you deleted the end of message 1,
>>as that is hardcoded into the hideous tag parser built into
>>multiboard.
>>I have hacked it, but no elegant fix, as that would be a
>>rewrite.
>Tim, thanks loads for this, please log the time you spent on the PMS under iglu - task = spare capacity, or misc small tasks.
Tim, I forgot about it until I went to bed, then spent a few minutes,
whilst it was quality time,
I was in no fit state to work, so buy me a beer :)
yours
timP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10134,'Fri Oct 9 11:43:52 1998','FIXED',1,9945,'
>>>>The field labelled "accommodation" is displaying catering type and the accommodation type is not displayed anywhere.
>>>Hmmm, I originally copied the headings off the Oyster
>>>spec and made it a kind of combined catering/accom type
>>>field but someone has changed it to catering only.
>>>Is there a definitive right way of doing it?
>>definitive? - probably not, but separate \'accomodation type\' and \'catering\' might be the simplest / clearest
>absolutely, that makes a lot of sense now that b&b is no longer
>both an accom type and a catering type
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10135,'Fri Oct 9 11:44:14 1998','FIXED',1,10130,'
>>>a tiny point
>>>the boxes for the date to leave and date to return fields are too small to display a whole date as ddmmyyyy
>>>also - should these labels be so UK centric?
>>Fixed uk centricity. My dates dispaly great in both IE and NS, how many chars are you missing?
>I was losing 2 characters, but this was in NS3 on my machine at home where I may have unfriendly system font settings.
>its not a problem with IE & NS4
>lets call it fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10136,'Fri Oct 9 12:04:56 1998','FIXED',4,0,'
customer comments weren\'t appearing for a series of reasons ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10137,'Fri Oct 9 12:45:42 1998','Final Countries Statement',20,0,'
All,
For countries this is how it stands:
More than one country can be in a domain, but no more than one country may be in a resort.
So there is only really a need for country in the resort table, as all properties in the resort are going ot be in its resorts country. For SkiDomains, all countries that exist in it, can be found by the referencing SkiResorts.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10138,'Fri Oct 9 12:46:28 1998','Towels',20,0,'
All,
The towels included field has already been added.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10139,'Fri Oct 9 13:17:16 1998','FIXED',1,9918,'
>
>Can we include the No of bathrooms under the No of bedrooms?
>Can we have the name of the ski domain under resort description?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10140,'Fri Oct 9 15:21:47 1998','about_content.html',2,0,'
The link to iglu.com home goes to index.html (the placeholder page)
with target=_top
It should go to main.html or main_ns.html with no target.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10141,'Fri Oct 9 15:22:57 1998','Call us',2,0,'
This doesn\'t complain if you don\'t enter any information.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10142,'Fri Oct 9 15:37:19 1998','Property Details',3,0,'
The links for the last 3 actions at the top of the
page (add chalet to shortlist, resort details and domain
details) could have their underlining removed using
style sheets. Similarly for Resort Details.
Also, the living room data is in my default font, not
arial.
(see Aparthotel La Neu (2p), Ordino-Arcalis)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10143,'Fri Oct 9 15:40:34 1998','Customer Commments',3,0,'
The comments are in my default font, not arial.
(see Aparthotel La Neu (2p), Ordino-Arcalis)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10144,'Fri Oct 9 15:46:08 1998','Shortlists (chalet and resort)',3,0,'
The comments are in a fixed font rather than arial.
Also, the "Forward shortlist to friends" links have
a \'tail\' (space in an tag)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10145,'Fri Oct 9 15:47:22 1998','graphics - labels',23,0,'
There are just a few graphical adjustments to make.
Im afraid the word \'chalet\' will have to be replaced with
the word \'property\'. Sorry this has come so late in the day.
It was flagged up at some point, but it dissappeared into
the aether and never resurfaced.
so
the page label and the nav button saying
\'search for chalet\'
should now be
\'find property\'
and so
the nav button labeled \'search for resort\'
should now be
\'find resort\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10146,'Fri Oct 9 15:48:53 1998','graphics - domain icon',23,0,'
The domain icon looks a little like a financial forcast (and not a rosey one)
could we bring out the mountainous aspects a little.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10147,'Fri Oct 9 16:00:52 1998','Re: graphics - labels',23,10145,'
>the nav button labeled \'search for resort\'
>should now be
>\'find resort\'
and also the \'search for resort\' page label will need
to be \'find resort\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10148,'Fri Oct 9 16:19:12 1998','graphics - new icons',23,0,'
Also
can we do all these icons as square icons with a text link
(like the \'add to shortlist\' icon) - just for consistancy.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10149,'Fri Oct 9 16:50:29 1998','new icons - layout order',23,0,'
Also
the current order of these secondary navigation functions
is a little confusing. Any ideas how we can clarify this a little?
could we group them together a little more intuatively perhaps?
for example:
add to shortlist
view property shortlist
view resort shortlist
(space)
property list for resort
view domain details
this would group all the shortlist functions together
any other ideas??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10150,'Fri Oct 9 16:54:20 1998','telephone numbers',23,0,'
could we internationalise all the telephone numbers
(in the top frqme and the nav frame)
ie preceed them with +44(0)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10151,'Fri Oct 9 19:15:31 1998','Re: icq',4,10062,'
so can someone send me a msg or 2 so that I am convinced
the KDE clone client works reliably?
williamC/williamc@dai.ed.ac.uk/#20645455
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10152,'Fri Oct 9 20:48:38 1998','phase 1 templates and scripts',1,0,'
Will and Chippy,
I am taking control of all of these in order to make the changes requested by iglu for phase 1.
If you want to change anything for phase 1, please let me know, and I will release the appropiate files.
for phase 2 scripts, perhaps we should develop in cgi-bin again in order not to break the current site.
Please let everyone know when you change a library, so that we can keep them all in line.
I would like to deliver phase 2 (complete, including graphics) on 23/10/1998, so that there is plenty of time for feedback on the complete system. This puts pressure on you guys to do the various bits, and you may end up doing modules that were not originally allocated to you. (I\'m thinking of my bits mainly :-), as I have pressure from another projedct for delivery on 23rd.
Comments?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10153,'Fri Oct 9 21:59:00 1998','Re: phase 1 templates and scripts',4,10152,'
>for phase 2 scripts, perhaps we should develop in cgi-bin again in order not to break the current site.
noted ...
>you may end up doing modules that were not originally allocated to you. (I\'m thinking of my bits mainly :-), as I have pressure from another projedct for delivery on 23rd.
>Comments?
we\'re talking about call tracking, weather (where does it
come from by the way?), admin of customer
comments/newsletter, admin of site visitors (what are
they?), in total 40 hours est
in truth the bulletin boards are coming on nicely so
I don\'t think a portion of that, plus inevitable tweaking
of phase 1 is going to be too much of a problem as far
as I am concerned
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10154,'Fri Oct 9 22:18:36 1998','FIXED',1,9944,'
>>>
>>>Total No of slopes doesn\'t add up to the sum of Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced ???#
>>That\'s me being ignorant!
>>How do the slope colour codes map onto beginner--advanced?
>>I just made green beginner, blue intermediate and red
>>advanced but that leaves black.
>
>aparently ski people are familiar with the colour notation,
>so how about just dropping the \'beginner, intermediate\' stuf
>and sticking with the colours?
done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10155,'Fri Oct 9 22:24:13 1998','action: ben',1,9920,'
>
>Can we lose the decimal place from no of slopes, bars etc?
this is best done at the database level - change the fields from double to integer.
Over to you ben... :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10156,'Fri Oct 9 22:28:03 1998','Re: chalet search results 7',1,9921,'
>
>What about having a Book Now button in search results and accommodation details? (at the moment you can only book via the shortlist)
this is present in the results page, and will be added to the details page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10157,'Fri Oct 9 22:35:09 1998','Re: Re: accommodation details 1',1,9939,'
>>
>>is there a simple quick and dirty way of displaying the additional prices for things like animals, linen, towels etc?
>yep, that\'s easy
can we have a definitive list please.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10158,'Sat Oct 10 19:36:54 1998','Re: Re: phase 1 templates and scripts',4,10153,'
>>for phase 2 scripts, perhaps we should develop in cgi-bin again in order not to break the current site.
>noted ...
I have copied cgi-bin to cgi-bin-saved
and cleaned out cgi-bin (!).
For the moment please consider cgi-bin/*.pm as owned
by me since they have changed slightly for the
bulletin boards.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10159,'Sun Oct 11 1:49:13 1998','Bulletin boards',4,0,'
Bulletin boards are in pre-alpha at
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/boards/BulletinBoards.pl
There is absolutely no design in them ...
The search works like this:
You feed in words, including * and ? wildcards,
optionally prefixed with + to mean "must have".
If "match only whole words" is checked, they match
words, otherwise parts of words.
Messages with no hits at all are discarded. Otherwise,
search rating is sum over search words of log to base
2 of 1 + number of times word appears in message
body/subject. (Each successive occurrence counts for
less.)
I interpreted auto-email to mean: if someone replies to
a message you posted with auto-email checked, you
get the reply emailed to you.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10160,'Sun Oct 11 1:51:02 1998','text/textarea fields???',4,10159,'
What should I call an unlimited length text field
in Access ODBC?
textarea isn\'t accepted but text appears to mean
varchar(256)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10161,'Sun Oct 11 12:04:42 1998','Re: text/textarea fields???',1,10160,'
>What should I call an unlimited length text field
>in Access ODBC?
>textarea isn\'t accepted but text appears to mean
>varchar(256)
memo
Don\'t use too may of them per record (things get really slowww).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10162,'Sun Oct 11 12:46:29 1998','FIXED',1,9931,'
>>heres a curious one -
>>it appears that French people draw no distinction between
>>a tick and a cross - which generates some confusion.
>>Can anybody think of a truly international design solution?
>LOL (lots)
>Perhaps we should suggest that their culture is dieing fast and they should just rollover and accept it (bit like a German Invasion).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10163,'Sun Oct 11 15:00:18 1998','fixed',4,10161,'
>>What should I call an unlimited length text field
>>in Access ODBC?
>memo
sorted now, thanks!
>Don\'t use too may of them per record (things get really slowww).
Yup, it\'s just the message-body field of the postings.
I\'m careful not to access it unless it\'s really required
(i.e. people are actually looking at the message or doing
a search).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10164,'Sun Oct 11 15:15:29 1998','datadictionary admin',4,0,'
By the way in creating the new tables for the bulletin
boards I found that AdministrationEdit.pl would always
fail with an `incomplete data\' error from the Javascript
validation routines---in the end I disabled it but I\'ve
put it back now.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10165,'Sun Oct 11 18:58:41 1998','Book Using shortlist',2,0,'
On the chalet shortlist page, the "Book using shortlist"
link doesn\'t work if you have just put a property onto
the list. If you do another search and view your shortlist
without adding any new chalets then the link does work.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10166,'Sun Oct 11 20:48:38 1998','fixed',4,10165,'
>On the chalet shortlist page, the "Book using shortlist"
>link doesn\'t work if you have just put a property onto
>the list. If you do another search and view your shortlist
>without adding any new chalets then the link does work.
was actually when you first logged in: &bookingURL was
looking for the cookie before it ever got sent to the
browser ...
Tim---I have changed IgluPage.pm
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10167,'Sun Oct 11 20:54:43 1998','Re: datadictionary admin',1,10164,'
>By the way in creating the new tables for the bulletin
>boards I found that AdministrationEdit.pl would always
>fail with an `incomplete data\' error from the Javascript
>validation routines---in the end I disabled it but I\'ve
>put it back now.
Probably you weren\'t entering a field order value (which is mandatory). Mandatory fields have the field lable in bold, the javascript should have put the cursor on the field in error.
Can you just check this is fixed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10168,'Sun Oct 11 21:06:40 1998','FIXED',1,9940,'
>>when viewing an accommodation details page the top nav frame
>>contains 2 links to the same page - \'view chalet\' and \'\'
>>are these redundant?
>Yes they are, it\'s taken from Oyster\'s spec but it looks
>a bit of a weakness.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10169,'Sun Oct 11 21:08:02 1998','Re: Re: accommodation details 5',1,9940,'
>>when viewing an accommodation details page the top nav frame
>>contains 2 links to the same page - \'view chalet\' and \'\'
>>are these redundant?
>Yes they are, it\'s taken from Oyster\'s spec but it looks
>a bit of a weakness.
Sorry, but are you implying that the original spec was written by an oyster? :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10170,'Sun Oct 11 21:11:24 1998','Re: Re: Re: accommodation details 6',1,9943,'
>>>there are some info fields in the properties table that arent in the details output
>>>eg
>>>access to property
>>>wheelchair facilities
>>>no of showers
>>>etc
john, do we want to output all the fields in the property table? If so there are loads that are missing, otherwiase, which ones need adding?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10171,'Sun Oct 11 21:12:07 1998','FIXED',1,9951,'
>>Do we prefer the Oyster/paneris layout with a whole page for
>>headers and then a whole page for each message,
>>or a newsreader-style layout with a frame a the top for
>>headers and a frame underneath for bodies?
>Personally not bothered, although we don\'t have a massive amount of space :), so perhaps it\'s best to a whole page
>>Do we store messages in the filesystem or in the database?
>database. This allows maintenance to be carried out using the Admin system, and all site data to be backed up in one go.
>>Otherwise I don\'t see any serious issues. They seem to
>>have thought out the navigation OK; it\'s basically
>>stateless except you need to know which bulletin board
>>you have come from or the search criteria of the
>>search you have come from.
>cool
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10172,'Sun Oct 11 21:13:04 1998','FIXED',1,9965,'
>>the reason all this has come up is that there is some concern
>>about the nav and title frames taking up too much room so
>>there might not be enough room in the main frame to display
>>all the information cleanly and effectively. For Iglu the
>>ability to access the information outweighs design factors
>>quite significantly, and at the moment they can see a lot of
>>white space, and they are scared.
>Cool, we have reduduced the whitespace at the bottom.
>>There may also have been some small misunderstanding, because
>>I didnt realise that the frame proportions had been so rigidly
>>set - I thought they might be subject to revision in the light
>>of the content display designs (ie how much we
>> can / need to fit on one page) which have not themselves been
>>entirely defined yet.
>No, we are hard at work on the content frames, but the navigation and top bar are set. As mentioned, we can revisit this if required following the completion of phase 2. For my 2p, I feel that the design is nice and the space issue is not serious. Any tinkering at this stage is not going to procude much more space, and if we open this up, we are likely to end up rebuilding the entire design.
>>However - if we can demonstrate that we can get all the
>>required info into page-sized pieces that should go a long way
>>towards quelling the fear.
>I\'m working on it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10173,'Sun Oct 11 21:15:00 1998','Re: Final Countries Statement: ACTION BEN',1,10137,'
>All,
>For countries this is how it stands:
>More than one country can be in a domain, but no more than one country may be in a resort.
>So there is only really a need for country in the resort table, as all properties in the resort are going ot be in its resorts country. For SkiDomains, all countries that exist in it, can be found by the referencing SkiResorts.
>
>Ben Janes
Can you change the db to remove unnecessary fields
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10174,'Sun Oct 11 21:16:30 1998','FIXED',1,9909,'
>>It has just been pointed out that they is a Towel price field, but no Towels Included (a boolean) field.
>>This field would be yes if towels are included in the price and no otherwise.
>Is there no assumption that can be made here:
>No towels price = towels included;
>towels price present = towels not included
>Otherwise ben, you are welcome to change the database.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10175,'Sun Oct 11 21:16:46 1998','FIXED',1,10138,'
>All,
>The towels included field has already been added.
>
>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10176,'Sun Oct 11 21:18:38 1998','fixed',1,10140,'
>The link to iglu.com home goes to index.html (the placeholder page)
>with target=_top
>It should go to main.html or main_ns.html with no target.
strongly disagree.
the link is provided so that when someone arrives directly at about_content.html from a search engine, they can get to the rest of the site.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10177,'Sun Oct 11 21:19:27 1998','fixed',1,10141,'
>This doesn\'t complain if you don\'t enter any information.
switch your javascrit back on
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10178,'Sun Oct 11 21:26:56 1998','Re: Re: datadictionary admin',4,10167,'
>Probably you weren\'t entering a field order value (which is mandatory). Mandatory fields have the field lable in bold, the javascript should have put the cursor on the field in error.
>Can you just check this is fixed.
\'fraid not, I can fill in/check/select everything & it
still does it
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10179,'Sun Oct 11 21:32:33 1998','Re: Re: Re: datadictionary admin',1,10178,'
>>Probably you weren\'t entering a field order value (which is mandatory). Mandatory fields have the field lable in bold, the javascript should have put the cursor on the field in error.
>>Can you just check this is fixed.
>\'fraid not, I can fill in/check/select everything & it
>still does it
cool, what table, which record?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10180,'Sun Oct 11 21:37:04 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: datadictionary admin',4,10179,'
>cool, what table, which record?
datadictionary, creating a new row (ie description of a
field)
PS send me an ICQ message, I\'m beginning to doubt it
works ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10181,'Sun Oct 11 22:09:41 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: datadictionary admin',1,10180,'
>>cool, what table, which record?
>datadictionary, creating a new row (ie description of a
>field)
fixed, please try again
>PS send me an ICQ message, I\'m beginning to doubt it
>works ...
done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10182,'Sun Oct 11 22:29:14 1998','fixed',4,10181,'
>fixed, please try again
works, cheers
>>PS send me an ICQ message, I\'m beginning to doubt it
>>works ...
>done
oh dear, I\'m sure it has worked in the past :(
but I didnt\' get it
oh well
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10183,'Mon Oct 12 10:23:10 1998','FIXED',1,10156,'
>>
>>What about having a Book Now button in search results and accommodation details? (at the moment you can only book via the shortlist)
>this is present in the results page, and will be added to the details page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10184,'Mon Oct 12 10:25:54 1998','FIXED',1,10099,'
>Kruger,
>We seem to have zapped this (is suspect william!! :), can you put back your latest version.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10185,'Mon Oct 12 10:53:45 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: accommodation details 6',23,10170,'
>john, do we want to output all the fields in the property table? If so there are loads that are missing, otherwiase, which ones need adding?
there follows several lists of items that should appear on
various pages.
Im still working on the resort details page - its tricky
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10186,'Mon Oct 12 10:54:45 1998','Re: Property Details',1,10142,'
>The links for the last 3 actions at the top of the
>page (add chalet to shortlist, resort details and domain
>details) could have their underlining removed using
>style sheets. Similarly for Resort Details.
this area has been tidies up, graphical text has been removed.
>Also, the living room data is in my default font, not
>arial.
>(see Aparthotel La Neu (2p), Ordino-Arcalis)
fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10187,'Mon Oct 12 10:55:24 1998','FIXED',1,10186,'
>>The links for the last 3 actions at the top of the
>>page (add chalet to shortlist, resort details and domain
>>details) could have their underlining removed using
>>style sheets. Similarly for Resort Details.
>this area has been tidies up, graphical text has been removed.
>>Also, the living room data is in my default font, not
>>arial.
>>(see Aparthotel La Neu (2p), Ordino-Arcalis)
>fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10188,'Mon Oct 12 10:55:47 1998','FIXED',1,10143,'
>The comments are in my default font, not arial.
>(see Aparthotel La Neu (2p), Ordino-Arcalis)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10189,'Mon Oct 12 10:57:25 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: accommodation details 6',23,10170,'
Property search results:
Property name, Resort name, Country
Property description (text)
Booking period
Accommodation type
Catering type
Price - inc price unit
No of people
No of Bedrooms
No of single beds
No of double beds
No of bathrooms
Floor area
Proximity of slopes
Resort description (text)
Altitude range
max/min
No of slopes
Green%
Blue%
Red%
Black%
Bars
Restaurants
Children\'s facilities - (crèche or nursery) y/n
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10190,'Mon Oct 12 11:00:28 1998','Re: Re: Final Countries Statement: ACTION BEN',20,10173,'
>>All,
>>For countries this is how it stands:
>>More than one country can be in a domain, but no more than one country may be in a resort.
>>So there is only really a need for country in the resort table, as all properties in the resort are going ot be in its resorts country. For SkiDomains, all countries that exist in it, can be found by the referencing SkiResorts.
>>
>>Ben Janes
This has been done, now there is only one country field, in SkiResort.
Ben Janes
>Can you change the db to remove unnecessary fields
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10191,'Mon Oct 12 11:01:37 1998','FIXED',1,10144,'
>The comments are in a fixed font rather than arial.
font handling in input fields is so crap across all browsers that we don\'t tend to make any attempt to mess with it.
>Also, the "Forward shortlist to friends" links have
>a \'tail\' (space in an tag)
done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10192,'Mon Oct 12 11:01:38 1998','Re: Prices Table - pricing units',20,10092,'
>All,
>Here is a definitive list of pricing units:
>per apartment per night
>per apartment per week
>per chalet per week
>per person per week
>per person per night
>per person per two weeks
>per room per night (based on 2 people)
>per room per night (based on 3 people)
>per room per night (based on 4 people)
>per room per night (based on 5 people)
>This list, will be the list used for pricing units, any other info will go in an new field called: \'Extras\' which will be a \'Memo\' field.
>The \'per room per night (based on 2 people)\' style records are for hotels, where rooms, are based for a set number of poeple. It is the absolute price to be paid for the room and is not multiplied by anything.
>Confused? I was.
>Ben Janes.
The Prices table, and the priceunit look up table have been altered to reflect these alterations.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10193,'Mon Oct 12 11:02:21 1998','Re: action: ben - FIXED',20,10155,'
>>
>>Can we lose the decimal place from no of slopes, bars etc?
>this is best done at the database level - change the fields from double to integer.
>Over to you ben... :)
Done
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10194,'Mon Oct 12 11:03:25 1998','FIXED',1,10148,'
>Also
>can we do all these icons as square icons with a text link
>(like the \'add to shortlist\' icon) - just for consistancy.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10195,'Mon Oct 12 11:08:44 1998','FIXED',1,9892,'
>>>>Certainly it is unnecessary to have both the country and
>>>>the resort in the search criteria; I\'ll stop it doing
>>>>that.
>>Ben - OK with you?
>Just to clarify, it oughtn\'t to make any difference at
>all since we moved to defining the country in the
>ski resort not in the chalet; the country field in the
>chalet is redundant where not actually error-causing.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10196,'Mon Oct 12 11:09:16 1998','FIXED',1,10190,'
>>>All,
>>>For countries this is how it stands:
>>>More than one country can be in a domain, but no more than one country may be in a resort.
>>>So there is only really a need for country in the resort table, as all properties in the resort are going ot be in its resorts country. For SkiDomains, all countries that exist in it, can be found by the referencing SkiResorts.
>>>
>>>Ben Janes
>
>This has been done, now there is only one country field, in SkiResort.
>
>Ben Janes
>>Can you change the db to remove unnecessary fields
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10197,'Mon Oct 12 11:15:02 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: accommodation details 6',23,10170,'
Property details:
Property description - (text)
Booking period
Accommodation type
Catering type
Floor area
Proximity of slopes
Orientation
Animals accepted
Wheelchair facilities
Baby accessories
Living room
(we can lose the \'separate living room\' field)
Fireplace
Colour TV + price
Satellite TV + price
Video
Hifi
Phone + phone type
Additional features
Jacuzzi
Sauna
hammam
Balcony
Terrasse
Parking (text)
Miscellaneous - (text)
No of sleeps - (No)
Bedroom 1: 1 double
ensuite
Bedroom 2: 2 single
Etc
Sofa-beds -
Sleeps in livingroom (text)
Linen + prices
No of bathrooms
No of WC
Towels + prices
Kitchen
Fridge
Cooker
Oven
Freezer
Microwave
Dishwasher
Washing machine
Dryer
Iron
General information (text)
(lose the \'heating\' field)
Access to property (text)
Ski lift at (distance)
Town center at (distance)
Food store at (distance)
Bar/Restaurant at (distance)
Bus stop at (distance)
(also - we need to get the \'floor map\' graphic in there. The problem is it needs to be bigger than the other pics other wise you cant see squat. I thought maybe we could put it right at the bottom… -- thoughts???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10198,'Mon Oct 12 11:19:09 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: accommodation details 6',23,10170,'
Resort search results:
Resort description - (text)
Altitude range
max/min
No of slopes
Green%
Blue%
Red%
Black%
Bars
Restaurants
Children\'s facilities - (crèche or nursery)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10199,'Mon Oct 12 13:12:13 1998','call tracking',4,0,'
I propose that there be 3 statuses for a call:
Unanswered just come in
No reply tried but didn\'t get through
Answered handled
Only the first two appear in the periodically updated
"Telephone calls" (Mollusc #85) display for the telesales
people, and always strictly in date order.
"Answered" calls are still in the database, and can
be accessed, in principle, through the admin pages,
though without a search facility there\'s not a lot
you can do.
If more followup is required then operators are
expected to create a proper customer record for the
caller.
The only potential glitch is if an operator marks a call
answered before creating a customer record, thereby
losing the contact phone number unless they go into
the admin pages and dig it out.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10200,'Mon Oct 12 15:47:00 1998','Country - Chalet Search',20,0,'
When searching, in the Chalet Search, the property.country reference to the database needs to be removed from the SQL, as that field no longer exists in the database.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10201,'Mon Oct 12 15:52:41 1998','Understanding the templates',20,0,'
When reading the Chalet Search templates, you come accross \'{{\' and \'}}\' markers. I am infomed (by TimJ) that these mean you execute the code within these markers.
This places me in a problem, because, what is the code to execute for the markers around the variable $area, and $dslopes.
$_scripts is meant to point to: cgi-int ?
Also, where is the $_details variable meant to point?
Also, (again), what is $_query meant to point to?
Finally (sorry about this), the executeable code:
\'chaletShortlistURL(\'main\',$property_id,$scripts.\'/search/Details_Property.pl?\'.$_query)
Does what? Could you please explain the last one to me?
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10202,'Mon Oct 12 16:53:37 1998','Re: Understanding the templates',4,10201,'
Stuff in {{ }} is Perl fragments, executed in the package
templateVariables. The variables and subroutines are
defined in the page-specific script, or in
cgi-bin/IgluPage.pm, or they can refer to database fields if
the page-specific script has "imported" a record into
the scope.
>$_scripts is meant to point to: cgi-int ?
Yes, see IgluPage.pm.
>Also, where is the $_details variable meant to point?
That\'s a site-specific one, currently on line 302 of
cgi-bin/search/ChaletSearchResults.pl or 160 of
cgi-bin/search/ResortSearchResults.pl.
>Also, (again), what is $_query meant to point to?
I could go on, but this is surely what grep is for :).
It\'s not complicated, but for obvious reasons it\'s not
in a glossy bound document ...
>Finally (sorry about this), the executeable code:
>\'chaletShortlistURL(\'main\',$property_id,$scripts.\'/search/Details_Property.pl?\'.$_query)
>Does what? Could you please explain the last one to me?
No, I don\'t know what\'s happened there :), it should read
simply {{ chaletShortlistURL(\'main\', $property_id) }},
which means "a URL to show the Chalet Shortlist having
added the property with ID $property_id to the shortlist".
The "longer version" you quote is replicated several times
in different files---it\'s harmless but really ought to
go ...
If this is all to do with making some Java interpret the
templates then you are probably biting off more than you
realise. There are several hundred lines of Perl code behind
the various expansions and automagically importing
linked database fields. It means writing the templates
and scripts is peasy, but interpreting them is nontrivial.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10203,'Mon Oct 12 16:57:27 1998','Re: Understanding the templates',1,10201,'
>When reading the Chalet Search templates, you come accross \'{{\' and \'}}\' markers. I am infomed (by TimJ) that these mean you execute the code within these markers.
>This places me in a problem, because, what is the code to execute for the markers around the variable $area, and $dslopes.
there is no really need for {{ }} round these fields.
>$_scripts is meant to point to: cgi-int ?
yep
>Also, where is the $_details variable meant to point?
>Also, (again), what is $_query meant to point to?
by example:
http://192.168.1.2/iglu/cgi-int/search/Details_Property.pl?$_query&_iglu_object=property-5
$_query is the URL encoded query from the search form and
5 is the property id.
>Finally (sorry about this), the executeable code:
>\'chaletShortlistURL(\'main\',$property_id,$scripts.\'/search/Details_Property.pl?\'.$_query)
>Does what? Could you please explain the last one to me?
does the same as for the details page.
we will need to add the script name to the parameters passed so that we can return to the correct script (or executable) for the search. I\'ll get onto this tomorrow.
hope this helps. Do you have a VB cgi library to help with the URL encoding?
','f','',64,0,0);
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10204,'Mon Oct 12 16:58:58 1998','chaletShortlistURL extraneous matter',4,0,'
There are several usages similar to
{{ chaletShortlistURL(\'main\', $property_id, $_scripts.\'/search/Details_Property.pl?\'.$_query) }}
in the search templates. They should all have that
third argument removed (this must have been copied from
an early or deviant version in one of my templates,
sorry).
Just
{{ chaletShortlistURL(\'main\', $property_id) }}
will do.
Tim------I can do this myself, no prob, if we arrange
that we don\'t clash.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10205,'Mon Oct 12 17:01:54 1998','Re: Re: Understanding the templates',20,10202,'
>Stuff in {{ }} is Perl fragments, executed in the package
>templateVariables. The variables and subroutines are
>defined in the page-specific script, or in
>cgi-bin/IgluPage.pm, or they can refer to database fields if
>the page-specific script has "imported" a record into
>the scope.
>>$_scripts is meant to point to: cgi-int ?
>Yes, see IgluPage.pm.
>>Also, where is the $_details variable meant to point?
>That\'s a site-specific one, currently on line 302 of
>cgi-bin/search/ChaletSearchResults.pl or 160 of
>cgi-bin/search/ResortSearchResults.pl.
>>Also, (again), what is $_query meant to point to?
>I could go on, but this is surely what grep is for :).
>It\'s not complicated, but for obvious reasons it\'s not
>in a glossy bound document ...
>>Finally (sorry about this), the executeable code:
>>\'chaletShortlistURL(\'main\',$property_id,$scripts.\'/search/Details_Property.pl?\'.$_query)
>>Does what? Could you please explain the last one to me?
>No, I don\'t know what\'s happened there :), it should read
>simply {{ chaletShortlistURL(\'main\', $property_id) }},
>which means "a URL to show the Chalet Shortlist having
>added the property with ID $property_id to the shortlist".
>The "longer version" you quote is replicated several times
>in different files---it\'s harmless but really ought to
>go ...
>If this is all to do with making some Java interpret the
>templates then you are probably biting off more than you
>realise. There are several hundred lines of Perl code behind
>the various expansions and automagically importing
>linked database fields. It means writing the templates
>and scripts is peasy, but interpreting them is nontrivial.
Actually, its interpreting the templates in VB!!!
Ben ;->)
','f','',64,0,0);
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10206,'Mon Oct 12 17:04:44 1998','Re: Re: Understanding the templates',4,10203,'
>there is no really need for {{ }} round these fields.
Yes there is: $dslopes m will show as 500 m while
{{ $dslopes }}m will show more nicely as 500m.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10207,'Mon Oct 12 17:12:18 1998','Re: Re: Re: Understanding the templates',4,10205,'
>Actually, its interpreting the templates in VB!!!
>Ben ;->)
*gak*
Are you sure you can\'t you Perl for this? :)
Well, maybe it would be an idea to take some of the perlisms
out anyway, though I think SOME sort of facility to call
functions adds a lot of flexibility without making it too
hard to understand.
Perhaps this is a good opportunity for us to harden up
the definition of the templates. However there are some
things I would do differently second time round, like
the semantics of the database field importing. Perhaps
we can talk about it?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10208,'Mon Oct 12 17:23:24 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the templates',1,10207,'
>>Actually, its interpreting the templates in VB!!!
>>Ben ;->)
>*gak*
Will, I think you are overstating the complexity.
Ben is simply going to use one template to create the interface to the rest of the site, so he doen\'t need the magic values look up facility (rather he can hard code the SQL).
He does need to pass around his query string, but this isn\'t a problem, and we simply need to allow his query script to be called when the user wants to return to the results.
>Are you sure you can\'t you Perl for this? :)
they have sold their soul
>Well, maybe it would be an idea to take some of the perlisms
>out anyway, though I think SOME sort of facility to call
>functions adds a lot of flexibility without making it too
>hard to understand.
well the snippets don\'t have to be in perl, if we wrote the site in VB, we would write the snippets in VB, or are you thinking of a {{script language = "Perl 5.0"}} header?
>Perhaps this is a good opportunity for us to harden up
>the definition of the templates. However there are some
>things I would do differently second time round, like
>the semantics of the database field importing.
agree, it would remove much confusion if we adopted $table.fieldname notation for the magic variables.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10209,'Mon Oct 12 17:24:29 1998','Re: chaletShortlistURL extraneous matter',1,10204,'
>There are several usages similar to
>{{ chaletShortlistURL(\'main\', $property_id, $_scripts.\'/search/Details_Property.pl?\'.$_query) }}
>in the search templates. They should all have that
>third argument removed (this must have been copied from
>an early or deviant version in one of my templates,
>sorry).
>Just
>{{ chaletShortlistURL(\'main\', $property_id) }}
>will do.
>Tim------I can do this myself, no prob, if we arrange
>that we don\'t clash.
I\'ll sort it, can \'main\' go as well, now we have got rid of all those frames?
','f','',64,0,0);
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10210,'Mon Oct 12 17:35:30 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the templates',4,10208,'
>Ben is simply going to use one template to create the interface to the rest of the site, so he doen\'t need the magic values look up facility (rather he can hard code the SQL).
That sounds fine, why doesn\'t he just snarf the page
source from his browser and extract bits as appropriate?
>>Perhaps this is a good opportunity for us to harden up
>>the definition of the templates. However there are some
>>things I would do differently second time round, like
>>the semantics of the database field importing.
>agree, it would remove much confusion if we adopted $table.fieldname notation for the magic variables.
Well I quite like the namespace collapsing; it\'s just like
what happens in an SQL join and it does make things more
concise. In any case if you want to use qualified names
then $field.field is better than $table.field.
But there are times when you want more than one base object,
and I think something like $property.propertyname
might be preferable to just $propertyname unless you
request otherwise.
Perhaps we could settle on $theproperty..adlt1dypass
or $.adlt1dypass to make the namespace collapse a bit more
explicit, with the option of writing
$theproperty.skiresort.skidomain.adlt1dypass there if you
want it?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10211,'Mon Oct 12 17:58:47 1998','Ecommerce',2,0,'
Dear all,
I have altered scripts and templates on the site to call
SecureTrading\'s system. I have also created the pages
which need to be uploaded onto their system.
Unfortunately, they are a little unclear as to how we need
to call their system since some of their key staff are at an
exhibition. When I have details from them, I will upload the
new pages and test them. I was expecting them to get back
today, but I assume it will now be tomorrow (Tuesday).
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
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10212,'Mon Oct 12 19:32:52 1998','belated thought',4,10203,'
>we will need to add the script name to the parameters passed so that we can return to the correct script (or executable) for the search. I\'ll get onto this tomorrow.
Check out back_url and grep for _back in the scripts/templates
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10213,'Mon Oct 12 20:41:17 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the templates',1,10210,'
>>Ben is simply going to use one template to create the interface to the rest of the site, so he doen\'t need the magic values look up facility (rather he can hard code the SQL).
>That sounds fine, why doesn\'t he just snarf the page
>source from his browser and extract bits as appropriate?
this is what he is doing.
>>>Perhaps this is a good opportunity for us to harden up
>>>the definition of the templates. However there are some
>>>things I would do differently second time round, like
>>>the semantics of the database field importing.
>>agree, it would remove much confusion if we adopted $table.fieldname notation for the magic variables.
>Well I quite like the namespace collapsing; it\'s just like
>what happens in an SQL join and it does make things more
>concise. In any case if you want to use qualified names
>then $field.field is better than $table.field.
>But there are times when you want more than one base object,
>and I think something like $property.propertyname
>might be preferable to just $propertyname unless you
>request otherwise.
>Perhaps we could settle on $theproperty..adlt1dypass
>or $.adlt1dypass to make the namespace collapse a bit more
>explicit, with the option of writing
>$theproperty.skiresort.skidomain.adlt1dypass there if you
>want it?
like this. but not this week (or month) :)
','f','',64,0,0);
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10214,'Mon Oct 12 21:55:59 1998','Re: graphics - labels',1,10145,'
Krugs,
can you change the menu bar:
"search for chalet" should now be "property search"
"search for resort" should now be "resort search"
Cheers
Tim
>There are just a few graphical adjustments to make.
>Im afraid the word \'chalet\' will have to be replaced with
>the word \'property\'. Sorry this has come so late in the day.
> It was flagged up at some point, but it dissappeared into
> the aether and never resurfaced.
>so
>the page label and the nav button saying
>\'search for chalet\'
>should now be
>\'find property\'
>and so
>the nav button labeled \'search for resort\'
>should now be
>\'find resort\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10215,'Tue Oct 13 11:15:54 1998','additional picture fields',23,0,'
we are including some extra picture path fields
in both the ski resort and the ski domain tables
(3 extra picture fields and one skimap in each table)
The new fields will go in to the database sometime this afternoon.
Could they be integrated into the \'resort details\' and
\'ski area details\' pages respectively?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10216,'Tue Oct 13 11:50:08 1998','FIXED',1,9886,'
>>>There is a field in a table somewhere (Ill have to ask Ben)
>>>that contains the booking period for a property
>>> ie saturday to saturday - sunday to sunday - midweek etc
>>>can we use this as a search criteria in a property search?
>>We could but it\'s not in the spec. Budget an hour for
>>it.
>Lets do it.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10217,'Tue Oct 13 11:52:35 1998','resort / ski area (domain) information',23,0,'
we have to make a few changes to the resort and doman tables to
reflect the different pricing structures at resort and domain levels.
So...
from the ski resort table we are copying the following fields into the domains table:
no of ski lifts
no of slopes
km of slopes
green slopes
blue slopes
red slopes
black slopes
snow cannons
ski school
from the ski domains table we are copying the following fields to the resorts table:
altitude skilift foot
altitude skilift top
skipass 7 days adult
skipass 7 days child
skipass 6 days adult
skipass 6 days child
skipass 1 days adult
skipass 1 days child
other concessions
child skipass
free skipass
Ben will make these changes this afternoon
','f','',64,0,0);
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10218,'Tue Oct 13 12:12:25 1998','iglu.pm',1,0,'
has changed, is it ok to change cgi-bin as well
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10219,'Tue Oct 13 12:49:38 1998','Prices search algorithm',20,0,'
John and I are still wondering about how best to implement this for the Forager system.
We have had a couple of ideas and would like some feedback:
i) ruunning a weekly check on the system and filling all the price range fields, as per person per night values in a common currency (Euro?), with the minimum and maxmimum prices, and then using these values
ii) going through the prices table every time calcualting all the prices on the fly?
Any ideas/suggestions?
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
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10220,'Tue Oct 13 13:09:57 1998','Re: iglu.pm',4,10218,'
>has changed, is it ok to change cgi-bin as well
hold on, I will upload my latest for you to compare
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10221,'Tue Oct 13 13:21:01 1998','Re: Re: iglu.pm',4,10220,'
>>has changed, is it ok to change cgi-bin as well
>hold on, I will upload my latest for you to compare
done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10222,'Tue Oct 13 14:01:18 1998','Re: call tracking',4,10199,'
I\'m just uploading the call tracking stuff I have done.
It seems there is already a database table CallBack,
with a customer number in it, but there isn\'t really
enough information to starting making an unambiguous
customer record. I get the impression from the
Bivalve document that it\'s meant to be a free-form name,
with the operator creating a customer record when
they actually make the call?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10223,'Tue Oct 13 14:18:42 1998','FIXED',1,9898,'
email form completed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10224,'Tue Oct 13 14:19:38 1998','rollovers',1,0,'
Kruger,
can you do a graphics for We\'ll call you and email us rollovers (i\'ll build the rollovers)
cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10225,'Tue Oct 13 15:13:47 1998','FIXED',1,10145,'
>There are just a few graphical adjustments to make.
>Im afraid the word \'chalet\' will have to be replaced with
>the word \'property\'. Sorry this has come so late in the day.
> It was flagged up at some point, but it dissappeared into
> the aether and never resurfaced.
>so
>the page label and the nav button saying
>\'search for chalet\'
>should now be
>\'find property\'
>and so
>the nav button labeled \'search for resort\'
>should now be
>\'find resort\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10226,'Tue Oct 13 15:15:02 1998','search headers',1,0,'
Krugs,
can you change the headers for "search for chalet" to "property search" and "search for restort" to "resort search"
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
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10227,'Tue Oct 13 15:15:29 1998','FIXED',1,9982,'
>>Can we include the accommodation description text at the top of each result?
>done
>>(also \'chalet\' should be replaced with \'accommodation\' where appropriate)
>does this include the navigation?
>>Can we also include the resort description text at the top of each resort description section ?
>done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10228,'Tue Oct 13 15:34:05 1998','FIXED',1,9927,'
>number of sleeps not showing
>only 2 bedrooms showing even when there are more
>can we show bathroom ensuite / shared?
>also we can lose the \'heating type\' altogether
','f','',64,0,0);
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10229,'Tue Oct 13 15:34:43 1998','FIXED',1,9929,'
>can we add the booking period information (saturday to saturday etc)
>from the booking_period table
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10230,'Tue Oct 13 15:35:34 1998','FIXED',1,10157,'
>>>
>>>is there a simple quick and dirty way of displaying the additional prices for things like animals, linen, towels etc?
>>yep, that\'s easy
>can we have a definitive list please.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10231,'Tue Oct 13 16:47:02 1998','datadictionary discrepancy',1,0,'
will,
db has RequestDate and datadictionary has CallDate
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10232,'Tue Oct 13 16:49:59 1998','Re: datadictionary discrepancy',4,10231,'
>will,
>db has RequestDate and datadictionary has CallDate
yep, sorry, it was locked for a bit and I forgot about it
','f','',64,0,0);
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10233,'Tue Oct 13 16:51:39 1998','FIXED',1,10198,'
>Resort search results:
>Resort description - (text)
>Altitude range
> max/min
>No of slopes
> Green%
> Blue%
> Red%
> Black%
>Bars
>Restaurants
>Children\'s facilities - (crèche or nursery)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10234,'Tue Oct 13 16:51:43 1998','fixed',4,10232,'
>>will,
>>db has RequestDate and datadictionary has CallDate
>yep, sorry, it was locked for a bit and I forgot about it
','f','',64,0,0);
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10235,'Tue Oct 13 16:58:20 1998','FIXED',1,10200,'
>When searching, in the Chalet Search, the property.country reference to the database needs to be removed from the SQL, as that field no longer exists in the database.
>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10236,'Tue Oct 13 17:30:39 1998','Re: Re: call tracking',4,10222,'
We\'ll-call-you call tracking now accessible from
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/calls/CallList.pl
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10237,'Tue Oct 13 17:36:06 1998','Re: Re: Re: call tracking',4,10236,'
>We\'ll-call-you call tracking now accessible from
>http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/calls/CallList.pl
sorry, meant to say:
can someone try the "we\'ll call you" popup with Windows?
I don\'t think the Javascript is behaving the way it\'s
meant to on my machine.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10238,'Tue Oct 13 17:50:32 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: call tracking',1,10237,'
>>We\'ll-call-you call tracking now accessible from
>>http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/calls/CallList.pl
>sorry, meant to say:
>can someone try the "we\'ll call you" popup with Windows?
>I don\'t think the Javascript is behaving the way it\'s
>meant to on my machine.
still works, but doen\'t seem to update the table. is it wired to the site to call the right script?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10239,'Tue Oct 13 18:24:49 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: call tracking',4,10238,'
>still works, but doen\'t seem to update the table. is it wired to the site to call the right script?
That\'s absolutely infuriating because it works for me.
Ergl.
Dons asbestos trousers: did you reload the popup\'s page?
If you did: can you try and fix it? I still haven\'t got
round to installing NT having messed up the process a
couple of times.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10240,'Tue Oct 13 18:36:21 1998','forgot.pl',3,0,'
\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\AdministrationForgot.pl\' script
produced no output
yours
TimP
PS how do I get a password?
Is the system live?
Is there a test system?
','f','',64,0,0);
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10241,'Tue Oct 13 19:54:41 1998','FIXED',1,10197,'
>Property details:
>
>Property description - (text)
>Booking period
>Accommodation type
>Catering type
>Floor area
>Proximity of slopes
>Orientation
>Animals accepted
>Wheelchair facilities
>Baby accessories
>
>Living room
>(we can lose the \'separate living room\' field)
>Fireplace
>Colour TV + price
>Satellite TV + price
>Video
>Hifi
>Phone + phone type
>
>Additional features
>Jacuzzi
>Sauna
>hammam
>Balcony
>Terrasse
>Parking (text)
>Miscellaneous - (text)
>No of sleeps - (No)
>Bedroom 1: 1 double
> ensuite
>Bedroom 2: 2 single
>Etc
>Sofa-beds -
>Sleeps in livingroom (text)
>Linen + prices
>No of bathrooms
>No of WC
>Towels + prices
>Kitchen
>Fridge
>Cooker
>Oven
>Freezer
>Microwave
>Dishwasher
>Washing machine
>Dryer
>Iron
>
>General information (text)
>(lose the \'heating\' field)
>Access to property (text)
>Ski lift at (distance)
>Town center at (distance)
>Food store at (distance)
>Bar/Restaurant at (distance)
>Bus stop at (distance)
>(also - we need to get the \'floor map\' graphic in there. The problem is it needs to be bigger than the other pics other wise you cant see squat. I thought maybe we could put it right at the bottom… -- thoughts???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10242,'Tue Oct 13 19:58:28 1998','FIXED',1,9963,'
>>>There is a bit of a space problem at a 600x800 screen res
>>>eg the phone, fax, email info at the bottom of the nav bar
>>>disappears. Maybe we could put it in the title frame and lose
>>>the scroll bar? (sorry Kruger)
>>>Also - there is a feeling that the title frame and the nav
>>>frames are a bit wide and eating up main frame space.
>>> How bad would it be to slim them down, with all the logo
>>>and nav rescaling that would involve? (sorry Kruger)
>>>Also can we arrange the chalet search form so all the boxes
>>>and the search button are visible without scrolling at 600x800?
>>John - please call ASAP to discuss this.
>As discussed, the frame design will not change significantly as this was signed off on monday 28/09/1998. We will however do the following:
>1) Center the frames set
>2) Reduce whitespace at the bottom of the page
>3) Duplicate tel, email and fax in the top frame, and add buttons for "We\'ll Call You" and "Emial Us", both of which will lead to pages where forms will be filled out.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10243,'Tue Oct 13 19:59:23 1998','FIXED',1,9997,'
>>Will,
>>These are actually my contributions, and I think it\'ll be
>>fine to move these. I thought of these locations myself
>>and only didn\'t move the date/time one there because they
>>are more Access orientated than SQL orientated (is that
>>right?).
>Good point, maybe we should have AccessUtils ...
>>But move them there, and let me know what changes
>>I have to make (alter the /administration/booking*.pl
>>scripts?).
>>Myles
>yep, and then delete \'em from Util.pm
>thanks,
>W
','f','',64,0,0);
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10244,'Tue Oct 13 20:00:01 1998','FIXED',1,10003,'
>>John,
>>For the pictures, we should not put the IP address or domain name in the path, rather use:
>>/pictures/....
>>This just makes the site more portable
>/pictures is now mapped to http://www.iglu.com/pictures
>---as long as the Perl code uses IgluPage::templateExpansion
>rather than Template::templateExpansion.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10245,'Tue Oct 13 21:26:16 1998','FIXED',1,10189,'
>
>Property search results:
>Property name, Resort name, Country
>Property description (text)
>Booking period
>Accommodation type
>Catering type
>Price - inc price unit
>No of people
>No of Bedrooms
>No of single beds
>No of double beds
>No of bathrooms
>Floor area
>Proximity of slopes
>Resort description (text)
>Altitude range
> max/min
>No of slopes
> Green%
> Blue%
> Red%
> Black%
>Bars
>Restaurants
>Children\'s facilities - (crèche or nursery) y/n
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10246,'Tue Oct 13 22:49:00 1998','Re: Re: design update/other issues',1,9968,'
>I can now see the Netscape version. A lot better centred.
>However, the blue edges of the top and bottom frames still
>don\'t line up:
>Index page : the top frame\'s left edge is approx 1-2 pixels
>to the left of the main frame. The right hand edge is about
>5-6 pixels to the left of the right hand edge of the main frame.
>Search for chalet page: The edges line up OK, although the
>bit of blue line on convenience.jpg is a couple of pixels to the
>right.
>Also, there are horizontal scroll bars when I resize my browser
>to 640x480.
>(Win95, 800x600, 16bit colour, Netscape Communicator 4.0)
I\'ve had a good hack at this, and netscape simply does not behave in a predictable maner. After much messing aroung, I think we have the best we can achieve.
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10247,'Tue Oct 13 22:51:06 1998','FIXED',1,10185,'
>
>>john, do we want to output all the fields in the property table? If so there are loads that are missing, otherwiase, which ones need adding?
>there follows several lists of items that should appear on
>various pages.
>Im still working on the resort details page - its tricky
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10248,'Tue Oct 13 22:54:39 1998','Re: Re: Re: pictures - action John',1,10078,'
>>>John,
>>>For the pictures, we should not put the IP address or domain name in the path, rather use:
>>>/pictures/....
>>For Anchorage, Courchevel, the path still has a http:// in front of it, can we please just use /pictures
>
>Tim
>Im on this. All the new paths will go in aright
>the existing ones will be changed.
couple of properties are still wrong (id 7,8)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10249,'Tue Oct 13 23:11:07 1998','FIXED',1,10052,'
>>>>Well, this has been explained to me, basically, people tend to know where they want to go, and are just interested in seeing the details for the resort and the chalet list. So, lets do it (sorry will).
>>>It does look a bit odd, I agree :).
>>>I have left it with the following "interesting" semantics:
>>>if you choose a particular resort from `location\', and
>>>then add a search criterion which it doesn\'t meet,
>>>you get no results.
>>>Comments?
>>I was kinda thinking more along the lines of keeping the
>>original country list and having the actual resort list as a separate option.
>>I agree that this does create a potential confusion if you
>>attempt to include the resort search with other criteria.
>>Soooo - maybe we could offer the resort finder as a separate thing
>>with some wording such as:
>>\'either
>>find a particular resort by name...
>>or
>>search for a suitable resort useng these criteria...\'
>>???
>>is this getting too complicated?
>yep, to complicated.
>I think the dropdown works fine, if you want to search in a country you can use " Any". It\'s also nice because you don\'t end up with loads of countries with no ski resorts (a pain in the old drop-down) (unintentional..... really! :).
>I do think though that we can be kind to the user. If they select an individual resort, they should get it, whatever the put in the other criteria.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10250,'Wed Oct 14 0:18:54 1998','FIXED',1,10093,'
>>>I suggest 5 categories for the difficulty:
>>>Any
>>>Beginner
>>>Intermediate
>>>Advanced
>>>Export
>> ^^^^^^ :-)
>>Sounds nice,
>>Where do you recommend the different categories cut in
>>on the points scale?
>The split points i suggest:
>100 - 175 Beginner
>176 - 250 Intermediate
>251 - 325 Advanced
>326+ Expert <- See I can spell in context!!!
>
>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10251,'Wed Oct 14 0:23:25 1998','FIXED',1,10051,'
>
>>As usual the search is inclusive (altreslow-to-altreshigh
>>overlaps with given range, doesn\'t have to be included
>>in it) and includes resorts for which altres... is not
>>defined.
>don\'t like this, by including undefines, the impression is given that a resort fits the criteria, which it may well not (in reality).
>Can we exclude undefines (except for an \'any\' search)
changed my mind on this (undefines is still selected below 1000m) as difficulty = beginner selectes when no slope data is defined
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10252,'Wed Oct 14 9:20:25 1998','Re: forgot.pl',1,10240,'
>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\AdministrationForgot.pl\' script
>produced no output
how have you got here?
you should be running
>\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\administration\AdministrationForgot.pl\'
>PS how do I get a password?
logon, and create a user record for yourself (logon tim requires no password at present)
>Is the system live?
yes
>Is there a test system?
no
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10253,'Wed Oct 14 9:23:19 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: call tracking',1,10239,'
>>still works, but doen\'t seem to update the table. is it wired to the site to call the right script?
>That\'s absolutely infuriating because it works for me.
>Ergl.
>Dons asbestos trousers: did you reload the popup\'s page?
>If you did: can you try and fix it? I still haven\'t got
>round to installing NT having messed up the process a
>couple of times.
now works, why was wrong with the javascript validation?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10254,'Wed Oct 14 9:30:41 1998','fixed',23,10248,'
>>>>John,
>>>>For the pictures, we should not put the IP address or domain name in the path, rather use:
>>>>/pictures/....
>>>For Anchorage, Courchevel, the path still has a http:// in front of it, can we please just use /pictures
>>
>>Tim
>>Im on this. All the new paths will go in aright
>>the existing ones will be changed.
>couple of properties are still wrong (id 7,8)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10255,'Wed Oct 14 9:46:05 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: call tracking',4,10253,'
>now works, why was wrong with the javascript validation?
It doesn\'t do the validation (I get the fallback CGI
validation instead).
When I press submit, I get an acknowledgement alert,
but it disappears after a fraction of a second, along
with the original window---as if it\'s modal on Windows
and holds up the window.close() but doesn\'t on Linux.
Anyway glad to know it works.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10256,'Wed Oct 14 9:54:39 1998','FIXED',1,10255,'
>>now works, why was wrong with the javascript validation?
>It doesn\'t do the validation (I get the fallback CGI
>validation instead).
it\'s works for me actually (crap testing tim)
>When I press submit, I get an acknowledgement alert,
>but it disappears after a fraction of a second, along
>with the original window---as if it\'s modal on Windows
>and holds up the window.close() but doesn\'t on Linux.
bit funny, but actually doesn\'t matter really.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10257,'Wed Oct 14 10:06:51 1998','resort information',23,0,'
here is the information to be displayed on the resort search
and resort details pages. sorry this has take so long.
Resort search results:
Resort description - (text)
Altitude range
max/min
No of slopes
Green%
Blue%
Red%
Black%
Bars
Restaurants
Children\'s facilities - (crèche or nursery)
---------------------------------------------------
Resort details:
(Resort name, country)
Resort description - (text)
Altitude range
max/min
Activities / leisure
Swimming pool
Ice skating ring
Squash (instead of bowling)
Tennis
Fitness centre (instead of golf)
Library
Night life
Bars
Restaurants
Discotheques
Cinemas
Sports activities (text)
Cultural activities (text)
Events (text)
Access to resort
By rail - (text)
By air - (text)
By car - (text)
Ski area
Km of slopes
No of ski lifts
Snow cannons
No of slopes
Green
Blue
Red
Black
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10258,'Wed Oct 14 10:17:19 1998','Re: Re: Re: iglu.pm',1,10221,'
>>>has changed, is it ok to change cgi-bin as well
>>hold on, I will upload my latest for you to compare
>done
it has changed dramatically.
I am now getting:
Expanding code and variables in templateFragment ` locationOptions \' failedGoto undefined subroutine &AutoLoader::AUTOLOAD at C:\PERL\lib/Win32/ODBC.pm line 861.
any ideas?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10259,'Wed Oct 14 10:19:16 1998','Re: Prices search algorithm',1,10219,'
>John and I are still wondering about how best to implement this for the Forager system.
>We have had a couple of ideas and would like some feedback:
>i) ruunning a weekly check on the system and filling all the price range fields, as per person per night values in a common currency (Euro?), with the minimum and maxmimum prices, and then using these values
>ii) going through the prices table every time calcualting all the prices on the fly?
deffinitely option ii, never set up batch processes if you can avoid it.
I\'m not sue there is a sensible definition of a price of a property, john is investigating.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10260,'Wed Oct 14 10:40:03 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: iglu.pm',4,10258,'
Sorry about delay, ISP\'s nameserver not working ...
>it has changed dramatically.
Has it??????
There are only 4 lines changed from the copy in cgi-int,
and 2 of those are cgi-int => cgi-bin.
>I am now getting:
>Expanding code and variables in templateFragment ` locationOptions \' failedGoto undefined subroutine &AutoLoader::AUTOLOAD at C:\PERL\lib/Win32/ODBC.pm line 861.
>any ideas?
I have had that occasionally, and it seems sometimes to mean
you are trying to SELECT a field that isn\'t there.
Do we really have to live with a W32ODBC that throws up
these obscure fatals?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10261,'Wed Oct 14 10:51:09 1998','FIXED',1,10224,'
>Kruger,
>can you do a graphics for We\'ll call you and email us rollovers (i\'ll build the rollovers)
>cheers
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10262,'Wed Oct 14 11:08:36 1998','FIXED',1,10260,'
silly me.
I have updated both cgi-bin and cgi-int
>Sorry about delay, ISP\'s nameserver not working ...
>>it has changed dramatically.
>Has it??????
>There are only 4 lines changed from the copy in cgi-int,
>and 2 of those are cgi-int => cgi-bin.
>>I am now getting:
>>Expanding code and variables in templateFragment ` locationOptions \' failedGoto undefined subroutine &AutoLoader::AUTOLOAD at C:\PERL\lib/Win32/ODBC.pm line 861.
>>any ideas?
>I have had that occasionally, and it seems sometimes to mean
>you are trying to SELECT a field that isn\'t there.
>Do we really have to live with a W32ODBC that throws up
>these obscure fatals?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10263,'Wed Oct 14 11:52:26 1998','FIXED',1,10146,'
>The domain icon looks a little like a financial forcast (and not a rosey one)
>could we bring out the mountainous aspects a little.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10264,'Wed Oct 14 11:53:23 1998','FIXED',1,10082,'
>>can we have another drop down search box - \'ski difficulty\'
>>featuring:
>>beginner
>>intermediate
>>expert
>>any level
>>all levels
>>Ben has a simple algorithm that will work out a resorts
>>ski diffuculty index from the proprotions of slope types.
>>He will post it to this thread soon
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10265,'Wed Oct 14 13:09:37 1998','FIXED',1,10045,'
>can we change the \'creche facilities\' search to
>\'childrens facilities\' - and then just look in the
>creche and nursery fields to see if theres anything
>in either?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10266,'Wed Oct 14 13:47:22 1998','FIXED',1,10059,'
>Krugs,
>this is too light, you think?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10267,'Wed Oct 14 14:26:20 1998','slopes colors',1,0,'
I have added a splash of color to the slopes in the property search results.
what do you think: good, bad or uglu?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10268,'Wed Oct 14 14:58:10 1998','FIXED',1,10096,'
>Chippy,
>when i have a new booking, all time fields have a : in them, can we loose it please.
>tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10269,'Wed Oct 14 15:01:58 1998','FIXED',1,10147,'
>
>>the nav button labeled \'search for resort\'
>>should now be
>>\'find resort\'
>and also the \'search for resort\' page label will need
>to be \'find resort\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10270,'Wed Oct 14 15:03:58 1998','Re: Re: Re: Domain Info - Action Kruger',1,10131,'
Can you build a header graphic called
"domain information"
>>>when in the domain section
>>>a) the label at the top says \'search for chalet\'
>>I thought this was ok as searching for a chalet is typically what you are doing. can be changed to \'Domain Information\' if u like.
>
>you can also get to the domain info from the resort details
>in which case the label changes from \'search for resort\' to \'search for chalet\'
>I think \'domain information\' would cure this.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10271,'Wed Oct 14 15:10:03 1998','Re: new icons - layout order',1,10149,'
>Also
>the current order of these secondary navigation functions
>is a little confusing. Any ideas how we can clarify this a little?
>could we group them together a little more intuatively perhaps?
>for example:
>add to shortlist
>view property shortlist
>view resort shortlist
>(space)
>property list for resort
>view domain details
>this would group all the shortlist functions together
>any other ideas??
Add Aparthotel La Neu (6p) to shortlist
Property shortlist
Resort shortlist
Customer comments
Resort Ordino-Arcalis
Domain Andorra
Property search results
Book Aparthotel La Neu (6p) now
any good? (the resort and domain details would follow the same pattern
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10272,'Wed Oct 14 15:12:02 1998','Re: telephone numbers - Action kruger',1,10150,'
>could we internationalise all the telephone numbers
> (in the top frqme and the nav frame)
>ie preceed them with +44(0)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10273,'Wed Oct 14 15:13:16 1998','FIXED',1,10213,'
>>>Ben is simply going to use one template to create the interface to the rest of the site, so he doen\'t need the magic values look up facility (rather he can hard code the SQL).
>>That sounds fine, why doesn\'t he just snarf the page
>>source from his browser and extract bits as appropriate?
>this is what he is doing.
>>>>Perhaps this is a good opportunity for us to harden up
>>>>the definition of the templates. However there are some
>>>>things I would do differently second time round, like
>>>>the semantics of the database field importing.
>>>agree, it would remove much confusion if we adopted $table.fieldname notation for the magic variables.
>>Well I quite like the namespace collapsing; it\'s just like
>>what happens in an SQL join and it does make things more
>>concise. In any case if you want to use qualified names
>>then $field.field is better than $table.field.
>>But there are times when you want more than one base object,
>>and I think something like $property.propertyname
>>might be preferable to just $propertyname unless you
>>request otherwise.
>>Perhaps we could settle on $theproperty..adlt1dypass
>>or $.adlt1dypass to make the namespace collapse a bit more
>>explicit, with the option of writing
>>$theproperty.skiresort.skidomain.adlt1dypass there if you
>>want it?
>like this. but not this week (or month) :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10274,'Wed Oct 14 15:50:13 1998','Re: slopes colors',20,10267,'
>I have added a splash of color to the slopes in the property search results.
>what do you think: good, bad or uglu?
Nice, adds a touch of internationality!!!
Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10275,'Wed Oct 14 16:04:20 1998','FIXED',1,10212,'
>>we will need to add the script name to the parameters passed so that we can return to the correct script (or executable) for the search. I\'ll get onto this tomorrow.
>Check out back_url and grep for _back in the scripts/templates
done.
you simply have to set the full url (not just the query string) into _back for "add to shortlist" and _chaletsearchquery for "more details".
good luck.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10276,'Wed Oct 14 16:45:45 1998','Ecommerce',2,0,'
Dear all,
I have just talked to Keith from SecureTrading who was
(at last!) able to answer my questions. I have sent him
the files to upload onto their server and which point we
will be able to test them. Unfortunately, this will not
happen before Monday.
The reason that they have not already set up the account
is that they are waiting on information from NatWest about
Iglu\'s merchant account (if that\'s the correct term). They
will hear automatically from NatWest so long as APR have
applied for this account using the form supplied by SecureTrading.
Can we please confirm that this has been done?
Thanks,
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10277,'Wed Oct 14 17:02:09 1998','FIXED',1,10209,'
>>There are several usages similar to
>>{{ chaletShortlistURL(\'main\', $property_id, $_scripts.\'/search/Details_Property.pl?\'.$_query) }}
>>in the search templates. They should all have that
>>third argument removed (this must have been copied from
>>an early or deviant version in one of my templates,
>>sorry).
>>Just
>>{{ chaletShortlistURL(\'main\', $property_id) }}
>>will do.
>>Tim------I can do this myself, no prob, if we arrange
>>that we don\'t clash.
>I\'ll sort it, can \'main\' go as well, now we have got rid of all those frames?
I have changed iglupage.pm, let me know when i can make changes in cgi-bin
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10278,'Wed Oct 14 17:11:48 1998','Re: additional picture fields',1,10215,'
>we are including some extra picture path fields
>in both the ski resort and the ski domain tables
>(3 extra picture fields and one skimap in each table)
>The new fields will go in to the database sometime this afternoon.
>Could they be integrated into the \'resort details\' and
>\'ski area details\' pages respectively?
let me know when you have added some pics, and i get the layout nice with the data.
also, can you sort the pats for resort 5 and 30
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10279,'Wed Oct 14 17:16:14 1998','FIXED',1,10217,'
>we have to make a few changes to the resort and doman tables to
>reflect the different pricing structures at resort and domain levels.
>So...
>from the ski resort table we are copying the following fields into the domains table:
>no of ski lifts
>no of slopes
>km of slopes
>green slopes
>blue slopes
>red slopes
>black slopes
>snow cannons
>ski school
>from the ski domains table we are copying the following fields to the resorts table:
>altitude skilift foot
>altitude skilift top
>skipass 7 days adult
>skipass 7 days child
>skipass 6 days adult
>skipass 6 days child
>skipass 1 days adult
>skipass 1 days child
>other concessions
>child skipass
>free skipass
>Ben will make these changes this afternoon
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10280,'Wed Oct 14 17:16:51 1998','FIXED',1,10226,'
>Krugs,
>can you change the headers for "search for chalet" to "property search" and "search for restort" to "resort search"
>Cheers
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10281,'Wed Oct 14 17:20:00 1998','done',4,10277,'
>I have changed iglupage.pm, let me know when i can make changes in cgi-bin
I did it, merging yours in cgi-int with mine in cgi-bin.
Let me know if I messed up :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10282,'Wed Oct 14 20:09:12 1998','Travel Pack & Templates',2,0,'
I have done most of the travel pack (it still need a link to
paying the balance).
I used the magic object which worked well except for a couple of things:
1) I don\'t get the groupleader\'s e-mail address (presumably because
I am getting the, blank, chalet owner\'s e-mail. It works at the minute,
(I look it up by hand) but have I forgotten something, Will?
2) There are a number of "datetime" fields on the page which are being set to
the date part of their date and time pair. I need to display the time.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10283,'Wed Oct 14 22:17:45 1998','FIXED',1,10257,'
changed the order a little, but now looks really good
>here is the information to be displayed on the resort search
>and resort details pages. sorry this has take so long.
>Resort search results:
>Resort description - (text)
>Altitude range
> max/min
>No of slopes
> Green%
> Blue%
> Red%
> Black%
>Bars
>Restaurants
>Children\'s facilities - (crèche or nursery)
>---------------------------------------------------
>Resort details:
>(Resort name, country)
>Resort description - (text)
>Altitude range
> max/min
>Activities / leisure
>Swimming pool
>Ice skating ring
>Squash (instead of bowling)
>Tennis
>Fitness centre (instead of golf)
>Library
>Night life
>Bars
>Restaurants
>Discotheques
>Cinemas
>Sports activities (text)
>Cultural activities (text)
>Events (text)
>
>Access to resort
>By rail - (text)
>By air - (text)
>By car - (text)
>Ski area
>Km of slopes
>No of ski lifts
>Snow cannons
>No of slopes
> Green
> Blue
> Red
> Black
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10284,'Wed Oct 14 22:30:51 1998','FIXED',1,10274,'
>>I have added a splash of color to the slopes in the property search results.
>>what do you think: good, bad or uglu?
>Nice, adds a touch of internationality!!!
>Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
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10285,'Wed Oct 14 22:38:53 1998','static pages for phase 2',1,0,'
Dan,
When do you expect the content for pages:
Terms and Conditions
Ski Area
Ski fitness guide
ski instruction guide
Insurance details
Travel operators
Any chance for sorting it out by monday?
If any of these bits are not going to be in the site for launch, can you let me know asap.
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
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10286,'Wed Oct 14 22:39:53 1998','weather',1,0,'
John,
have you finialised plans for the weather pages?
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
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10287,'Wed Oct 14 22:46:52 1998','screens 66 and 67',1,0,'
Will,
how far have you taken these, as I would simply like to do them as part of the generic admin scripts (and not design new screens).
We would then simply need to provide easy navigation to these tables.
Sorry if you have written them already :(
','f','',64,0,0);
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10288,'Wed Oct 14 23:07:26 1998','phase 2 menu items',1,0,'
John,
I am thinking that the following items need adding to the main navigation:
promotions
newsletter
weather
ski area
travel operatord
insurance
your shortlists
bulletin boards
any more?
can you confirm the words are correct, and come up with a sensible order.
cheers
tim
','f','',64,0,0);
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10289,'Thu Oct 15 0:23:48 1998','header graphics',1,0,'
krugs,
I have added some javascript to the headers to make them line up perfect in both ns and ie, can you just slice 1 pixel off the left of the headers so that the fall into place
cheers
tim
','f','',64,0,0);
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10290,'Thu Oct 15 8:46:34 1998','Re: screens 66 and 67',4,10287,'
>Sorry if you have written them already :(
Don\'t worry ...
I\'ve been a bit slow off the mark this week because of
interruptions so I hadn\'t touched them.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10291,'Thu Oct 15 8:56:36 1998','Re: Travel Pack & Templates',4,10282,'
>I have done most of the travel pack (it still need a link to
>paying the balance).
>I used the magic object which worked well except for a couple of things:
>1) I don\'t get the groupleader\'s e-mail address (presumably because
>I am getting the, blank, chalet owner\'s e-mail. It works at the minute,
>(I look it up by hand) but have I forgotten something, Will?
The theory is that these are considered to clash with
each other, since they are both at `level 1\' as it were
relative to the booking, so they are both renamed to
$owner_email and $grpldr_email respectively.
>2) There are a number of "datetime" fields on the page which are being set to
>the date part of their date and time pair. I need to display the time.
OK, well as you will see from Database.pm:1245, dates
get reformatted to dd-mm-yyyy but datetimes don\'t---
they are meant to come out exactly as the DB returns them.
But it sounds like there is something happening ...
tell me if you go on having problems.
If you look in Date.pm there are some HHMM time methods,
by the way.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10292,'Thu Oct 15 11:43:49 1998','FIXED',2,10291,'
>>I have done most of the travel pack (it still need a link to
>>paying the balance).
>>I used the magic object which worked well except for a couple of things:
>>1) I don\'t get the groupleader\'s e-mail address (presumably because
>>I am getting the, blank, chalet owner\'s e-mail. It works at the minute,
>>(I look it up by hand) but have I forgotten something, Will?
>The theory is that these are considered to clash with
>each other, since they are both at `level 1\' as it were
>relative to the booking, so they are both renamed to
>$owner_email and $grpldr_email respectively.
Actually $grpldrid_email, but that did the trick.
>>2) There are a number of "datetime" fields on the page which are being set to
>>the date part of their date and time pair. I need to display the time.
>OK, well as you will see from Database.pm:1245, dates
>get reformatted to dd-mm-yyyy but datetimes don\'t---
>they are meant to come out exactly as the DB returns them.
>But it sounds like there is something happening ...
>tell me if you go on having problems.
Works great now.
>If you look in Date.pm there are some HHMM time methods,
>by the way.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10293,'Thu Oct 15 13:35:13 1998','Booking Management',2,0,'
There is a problem with the (generic) Booking Management,
i.e. in the Administration section choose Data Management
then Bookings (AdministrationEdit.pl)
The Group Login appears to have the Property Id displayed
rather than the Login
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10294,'Thu Oct 15 13:40:40 1998','Re: Booking Management',2,10293,'
>There is a problem with the (generic) Booking Management,
>i.e. in the Administration section choose Data Management
>then Bookings (AdministrationEdit.pl)
>The Group Login appears to have the Property Id displayed
>rather than the Login
The name of the Property select box is GroupLogin and
the GroupLogin text box is named Property.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10295,'Thu Oct 15 13:43:58 1998','Re: Re: Booking Management',2,10294,'
>>There is a problem with the (generic) Booking Management,
>>i.e. in the Administration section choose Data Management
>>then Bookings (AdministrationEdit.pl)
>>The Group Login appears to have the Property Id displayed
>>rather than the Login
>The name of the Property select box is GroupLogin and
>the GroupLogin text box is named Property.
Similar problems with AdimistrationList.pl : I get the following
errors:
Couldn\'t execute statement: , 1, SELECT PropertyName
FROM Property WHERE id = fulltest
in the Property column, i.e. the value of GroupTest
is being used instead of Property
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10296,'Thu Oct 15 14:22:22 1998','Re: FIXED',2,10292,'
>>>I have done most of the travel pack (it still need a link to
>>>paying the balance).
>>>I used the magic object which worked well except for a couple of things:
>>>1) I don\'t get the groupleader\'s e-mail address (presumably because
>>>I am getting the, blank, chalet owner\'s e-mail. It works at the minute,
>>>(I look it up by hand) but have I forgotten something, Will?
>>The theory is that these are considered to clash with
>>each other, since they are both at `level 1\' as it were
>>relative to the booking, so they are both renamed to
>>$owner_email and $grpldr_email respectively.
>Actually $grpldrid_email, but that did the trick.
>>>2) There are a number of "datetime" fields on the page which are being set to
>>>the date part of their date and time pair. I need to display the time.
>>OK, well as you will see from Database.pm:1245, dates
>>get reformatted to dd-mm-yyyy but datetimes don\'t---
>>they are meant to come out exactly as the DB returns them.
>>But it sounds like there is something happening ...
>>tell me if you go on having problems.
>Works great now.
Spoke too soon! I get the date & time if I run from cgi-bin,
but not from cgi-int
','f','',64,0,0);
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10297,'Thu Oct 15 14:43:53 1998','Re: Re: FIXED',4,10296,'
>Spoke too soon! I get the date & time if I run from cgi-bin,
>but not from cgi-int
Is this a problem? I can do some diffing if it is ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10298,'Thu Oct 15 14:45:35 1998','DBIUtil::selectOneOrLess_hashref',4,0,'
Chippy---
is it OK if this returns undef rather than an empty
hash in the no-hits case?
','f','',64,0,0);
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10299,'Thu Oct 15 16:12:44 1998','Re: Re: Re: FIXED',2,10297,'
>>Spoke too soon! I get the date & time if I run from cgi-bin,
>>but not from cgi-int
>Is this a problem? I can do some diffing if it is ...
If you could, please Will. I couldn\'t see anything obvious
in Database.pm...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10300,'Thu Oct 15 16:32:55 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: FIXED',4,10299,'
>>>Spoke too soon! I get the date & time if I run from cgi-bin,
>>>but not from cgi-int
>>Is this a problem? I can do some diffing if it is ...
>If you could, please Will. I couldn\'t see anything obvious
>in Database.pm...
It\'s probably because the metadata defined in cgi-int/Iglu.pm
is out of step with the database. There are certainly
lots more fields typed as datetime in the newer data
dictionary reflected in the current Iglu.pm.
Are you developing in cgi-bin because it\'s admin?
','f','',64,0,0);
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10301,'Thu Oct 15 16:46:37 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FIXED',4,10300,'
>Are you developing in cgi-bin because it\'s admin?
sorry, meant cgi-int of course
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10302,'Thu Oct 15 16:51:17 1998','speed',1,0,'
Will, please call to chat about speed.
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10303,'Thu Oct 15 20:41:27 1998','Re: speed',1,10302,'
concern was expressed today by apr about the speed of perl.
Tim blamed Access
Actually, it was slightly slack programming on our part that meant the resort and property searches were a little inefficient.
both of these have now been improved and are now less sensitive to larger datasets. A limit on the number of results returned has also been set at 50, please advise if this is incorrect.
Will is still working on the template expansion algorithm (another identified slow bit), so we should see even more improvements tomorrow.
Anyway I think I\'ve speeded things up by 30%.
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10304,'Thu Oct 15 21:45:16 1998','administration',1,0,'
I have changed the administration scripts to prevent the full list of records being displayed on the list screen automatically.
if there are selection options available for the table, you can now restrict the results set before displaying it
I think this helps with larger results sets (properties etc)
APR - you might like to point this change out to iglu before they think that all their data has disapeared :)
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10305,'Thu Oct 15 21:49:34 1998','display order',1,0,'
we hit a small hitch with duplicate display orders today, I have added to the reconcilation report a section that check for duplicates.
I have run this and amended the only 2 tables with problems
hope this helps
tim
','f','',64,0,0);
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10306,'Thu Oct 15 21:49:50 1998','FIXED',1,10295,'
>>>There is a problem with the (generic) Booking Management,
>>>i.e. in the Administration section choose Data Management
>>>then Bookings (AdministrationEdit.pl)
>>>The Group Login appears to have the Property Id displayed
>>>rather than the Login
>>The name of the Property select box is GroupLogin and
>>the GroupLogin text box is named Property.
>Similar problems with AdimistrationList.pl : I get the following
>errors:
>Couldn\'t execute statement: , 1, SELECT PropertyName
> FROM Property WHERE id = fulltest
>in the Property column, i.e. the value of GroupTest
>is being used instead of Property
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10307,'Thu Oct 15 22:03:51 1998','FIXED',1,10270,'
>Can you build a header graphic called
>"domain information"
>>>>when in the domain section
>>>>a) the label at the top says \'search for chalet\'
>>>I thought this was ok as searching for a chalet is typically what you are doing. can be changed to \'Domain Information\' if u like.
>>
>>you can also get to the domain info from the resort details
>>in which case the label changes from \'search for resort\' to \'search for chalet\'
>>I think \'domain information\' would cure this.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10308,'Thu Oct 15 22:21:44 1998','FIXED',1,10272,'
>>could we internationalise all the telephone numbers
>> (in the top frqme and the nav frame)
>>ie preceed them with +44(0)
','f','',64,0,0);
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10309,'Fri Oct 16 9:34:38 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FIXED',2,10301,'
>>Are you developing in cgi-bin because it\'s admin?
>sorry, meant cgi-int of course
I was developing in cgi-bin, but there was no impact on
the libraries, so I was testing it in cgi-int (one of
my scripts needs to redirect to the Travel Pack.
Have you updated Iglu.pm in cgi-int, because I still can\'t
see the times?
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10310,'Fri Oct 16 10:10:48 1998','Re: Re: forgot.pl',3,10252,'
>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\AdministrationForgot.pl\' script
>>produced no output
>how have you got here?
>you should be running
>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\administration\AdministrationForgot.pl\'
I just tried to log in, didn\'t have a password, so got
error.
yours
TimP
','f','',64,0,0);
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10311,'Fri Oct 16 10:25:37 1998','Re: Re: Re: forgot.pl',1,10310,'
>>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\AdministrationForgot.pl\' script
>>>produced no output
>>how have you got here?
>>you should be running
>>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\administration\AdministrationForgot.pl\'
>I just tried to log in, didn\'t have a password, so got
>error.
my point is that you should not be running scripts in cgi-bin. We are now using cgi-int. Can you try again.
>yours
>TimP
','f','',64,0,0);
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10312,'Fri Oct 16 12:03:33 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: forgot.pl',3,10311,'
>>I just tried to log in, didn\'t have a password, so got
>>error.
>my point is that you should not be running scripts in cgi-bin. We are now using cgi-int. Can you try again.
Yeah, I just pressed buttons :)
I have just tried again, couldn\'t find the same place/result.
I imagine that there is a link to cgi-bin somewhere.
yours
timP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10313,'Fri Oct 16 12:25:44 1998','FIXED',1,10312,'
>>>I just tried to log in, didn\'t have a password, so got
>>>error.
>>my point is that you should not be running scripts in cgi-bin. We are now using cgi-int. Can you try again.
>Yeah, I just pressed buttons :)
>I have just tried again, couldn\'t find the same place/result.
>I imagine that there is a link to cgi-bin somewhere.
fixedbot.pl has marked this problem fixed as the poster has been unable to reproduce the error
fb
fixedbot - fixing bugs quicker :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10314,'Fri Oct 16 15:41:48 1998','Re: Re: speed',4,10303,'
>Will is still working on the template expansion algorithm (another identified slow bit), so we should see even more improvements tomorrow.
There is now a new Template.pm in cgi-bin. Template
expansion has now moved well down the profiling report.
The adjusted ChaletSearchResults.pl works with no
changes and is installed in cgi-bin.
Tim---do you want to try it against Access on your local
machine?
','f','',64,0,0);
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10315,'Fri Oct 16 17:45:43 1998','Re: Re: Re: speed',4,10314,'
>There is now a new Template.pm in cgi-bin. Template
>expansion has now moved well down the profiling report.
>The adjusted ChaletSearchResults.pl works with no
>changes and is installed in cgi-bin.
in fact this is untrue on iglu.com because of a bug in
i-way\'s version of perl (`pos\' fails)
a workaround may be possible using an explicit stack
rather than recursion
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10316,'Sat Oct 17 12:57:02 1998','booking form date layout',23,0,'
It has been requested that the date fields in the booking form (property booking dates and transport dates - currently text boxes) be converted to drop down lists in the style of the property search dates.
In order to accommodate this space wise, we could reorganise the layout of the booking fields thus:
title - first name - surname
transport required - place of departure departure
date to leave - date to return
etc
also - none of the transport fields should be mandatory
','f','',64,0,0);
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10317,'Sat Oct 17 13:35:00 1998','Re: Re: additional picture fields',23,10278,'
>let me know when you have added some pics, and i get the layout nice with the data.
Ive added an new resort called \'resort test1\' in Spain, and
put in some paths to existing pics.
A few things dont seem to be turning up in the output - towit:
No ticks in the \'squash\' and \'fitness centre\' boxes
No prices appearing in the ski pass table
should cinema be a tick box?
If there is no domain associated - should the \'domain none\' link lead anywhere?
>also, can you sort the pats for resort 5 and 30
done
','f','',64,0,0);
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10318,'Sat Oct 17 18:13:02 1998','"bargains" system: request for discussion (long)',4,0,'
Bit of a ramble, sorry---just that I can\'t immediately
see a clean and useful solution!
Oyster\'s plan
-------------
Here is my understanding of how Oyster envisaged this would work:
The customer registers details of what they want (flowchart #5). They
have to reply to a verification email in order that we know the
address is correct.
The `pricing\' table includes an extra "promotion" flag (flowchart #75).
The server runs essentially batch job which does a restricted property
search on all the customers\' bargains preferences, hitting only on
pricings marked as promotions.
Hits are automatically mailed to the customer in the form of a URL
which is specific to that mailing. The system records the date the
match was found/mail sent out, and notes the date when the customer
follows the link to look at the proposed bargain. Finally it notes
when the customer actually books the property.
Flowchart screen #70 lists all the promotional mailings which have
been sent, and the dates on which the hoped-for followup events
(viewing/booking) occurred for that particular mail. This is purely
informational---everything happens automatically.
Modified plan
-------------
In discussion with Tim I agreed that this was probably more
complicated than Iglu want in two ways: (1) we don\'t want to have to
go to the trouble of entering/removing "promotional" pricing deals, so
the bargains search will be identical to a normal property search; (2)
we don\'t want to have to handle confirmation emails or risk sending
automatic spam, and would rather all mails were sent or at least OK\'d
manually. I would add (3) it\'s not really clear what Iglu are going
to do with the spam-response tracking data apart from ask it to go
away and stop cluttering their screen!
One question is: if we make the bargain request basically an offline
property search, then is it not redundant? It isn\'t, in fact, because
it\'s a way of gathering sales/marketing info, but maybe we will have
to be more honest about what it is doing.
More seriously: what do we do when it returns a large number of
hits? We can\'t email a message with "the first fifty ``bargains\'\'
which matched your criteria were ...", because that turns it straight
back into an online search. We can\'t have operators filter it
manually because there is no other information on which they can do
that.
Questions
---------
I conclude that we should either implement Oyster\'s scheme in full, or
explicitly turn this into a "please do a search and email me updated
results every little while" feature.
Implementing Oyster\'s scheme would mean Iglu actually doing something
about pricing promotions. If it was to be fully automated we would
have to get access to incoming email for confirmation
purposes---otherwise we are in danger of spamming people.
Doing an `updating search\' would be a little expensive to implement
because it will have to remember all the hits from last time it ran so
that it can compute what the new hits are this time. That\'s a
significant fraction of number-of-customers times number-of-properties
records, since we don\'t benefit from the drastic pruning introduced by
the "promotional pricing" filter. Perhaps more seriously it\'s not
clear that anyone would really find it useful.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10319,'Sat Oct 17 18:23:04 1998','template new features',4,0,'
As a side-effect of the speeded-up template expansion
code, we have a new way of accessing database variables.
At present you just say $foo and if there happens to be
a database field with that name in the current magic
object or one of its dependent rows, you get its value.
Now you can write explicitly
$.skiresort.skidomain.chld6dypass
as well as
$..chld6dypass
to get the auto-search of dependent rows, or in fact
$.skiresort..chld6dypass
This is perhaps a preferable way of doing things because
it makes it clear what is a database field (all and only
things with dots in), is a little more efficient since
it doesn\'t require the auto-search to be done unless you
request it, and removes the (slight) possibility of
confusion due to the renaming that currently goes on
when two fields have the same name.
There is no compelling reason to move over to using this
syntax in all the templates but we could do it quite
easily and reliably by (1) having the system tell us
what the expanded versions of the field names ought to be,
or even make the change automatically, and (2) having made
the changes, run the system with all uses the current magic
variable syntax rigged to generate an error so that we
know we have found them all.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10320,'Mon Oct 19 2:00:36 1998','search results',23,0,'
In the search results page for both properties and resorts
Im getting things like:
\'Results 1 to 4 of at least 50
Page 1 of 10\'
when theres only four result from the search
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10321,'Mon Oct 19 9:04:44 1998','Re: Re: Prices search algorithm: ACTION BEN',1,10259,'
Ben,
Can you confirm the use of ranges for the price search and how you would like the pricing units to work.
>>John and I are still wondering about how best to implement this for the Forager system.
>>We have had a couple of ideas and would like some feedback:
>>i) ruunning a weekly check on the system and filling all the price range fields, as per person per night values in a common currency (Euro?), with the minimum and maxmimum prices, and then using these values
>>ii) going through the prices table every time calcualting all the prices on the fly?
>deffinitely option ii, never set up batch processes if you can avoid it.
>I\'m not sue there is a sensible definition of a price of a property, john is investigating.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10322,'Mon Oct 19 9:05:46 1998','ACTION JOHN: Re: static pages for phase 2',1,10285,'
Can yo let me know the order for these.
>Dan,
>When do you expect the content for pages:
>Terms and Conditions
>Ski Area
>Ski fitness guide
>ski instruction guide
>Insurance details
>Travel operators
>Any chance for sorting it out by monday?
>If any of these bits are not going to be in the site for launch, can you let me know asap.
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10323,'Mon Oct 19 9:07:25 1998','Re: weather',1,10286,'
Delivery agreed for wed 21st Oct
>John,
>have you finialised plans for the weather pages?
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
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10324,'Mon Oct 19 9:08:51 1998','ACTION JOHN: Re: phase 2 menu items',1,10288,'
Can you let me know the order for these.
>John,
>I am thinking that the following items need adding to the main navigation:
>promotions
>newsletter
>weather
>ski area
>travel operatord
>insurance
>your shortlists
>bulletin boards
>any more?
>can you confirm the words are correct, and come up with a sensible order.
>cheers
>tim
','f','',64,0,0);
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10325,'Mon Oct 19 9:09:30 1998','Re: ACTION JOHN: Re: static pages for phase 2',1,10322,'
Sorry, followup posted on wrong thread
>Can yo let me know the order for these.
>>Dan,
>>When do you expect the content for pages:
>>Terms and Conditions
>>Ski Area
>>Ski fitness guide
>>ski instruction guide
>>Insurance details
>>Travel operators
>>Any chance for sorting it out by monday?
>>If any of these bits are not going to be in the site for launch, can you let me know asap.
>>Tim
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10326,'Mon Oct 19 9:10:23 1998','FIXED',1,10289,'
>krugs,
>I have added some javascript to the headers to make them line up perfect in both ns and ie, can you just slice 1 pixel off the left of the headers so that the fall into place
>cheers
>tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10327,'Mon Oct 19 9:15:17 1998','Re: "bargains" system: request for discussion (long)',1,10318,'
Dan / John, please call me to discuss all of this.
TimJ
>Bit of a ramble, sorry---just that I can\'t immediately
>see a clean and useful solution!
>
>Oyster\'s plan
>-------------
>Here is my understanding of how Oyster envisaged this would work:
>The customer registers details of what they want (flowchart #5). They
>have to reply to a verification email in order that we know the
>address is correct.
>The `pricing\' table includes an extra "promotion" flag (flowchart #75).
>The server runs essentially batch job which does a restricted property
>search on all the customers\' bargains preferences, hitting only on
>pricings marked as promotions.
>Hits are automatically mailed to the customer in the form of a URL
>which is specific to that mailing. The system records the date the
>match was found/mail sent out, and notes the date when the customer
>follows the link to look at the proposed bargain. Finally it notes
>when the customer actually books the property.
>Flowchart screen #70 lists all the promotional mailings which have
>been sent, and the dates on which the hoped-for followup events
>(viewing/booking) occurred for that particular mail. This is purely
>informational---everything happens automatically.
>
>Modified plan
>-------------
>In discussion with Tim I agreed that this was probably more
>complicated than Iglu want in two ways: (1) we don\'t want to have to
>go to the trouble of entering/removing "promotional" pricing deals, so
>the bargains search will be identical to a normal property search; (2)
>we don\'t want to have to handle confirmation emails or risk sending
>automatic spam, and would rather all mails were sent or at least OK\'d
>manually. I would add (3) it\'s not really clear what Iglu are going
>to do with the spam-response tracking data apart from ask it to go
>away and stop cluttering their screen!
>One question is: if we make the bargain request basically an offline
>property search, then is it not redundant? It isn\'t, in fact, because
>it\'s a way of gathering sales/marketing info, but maybe we will have
>to be more honest about what it is doing.
>More seriously: what do we do when it returns a large number of
>hits? We can\'t email a message with "the first fifty ``bargains\'\'
>which matched your criteria were ...", because that turns it straight
>back into an online search. We can\'t have operators filter it
>manually because there is no other information on which they can do
>that.
>
>Questions
>---------
>I conclude that we should either implement Oyster\'s scheme in full, or
>explicitly turn this into a "please do a search and email me updated
>results every little while" feature.
>Implementing Oyster\'s scheme would mean Iglu actually doing something
>about pricing promotions. If it was to be fully automated we would
>have to get access to incoming email for confirmation
>purposes---otherwise we are in danger of spamming people.
>Doing an `updating search\' would be a little expensive to implement
>because it will have to remember all the hits from last time it ran so
>that it can compute what the new hits are this time. That\'s a
>significant fraction of number-of-customers times number-of-properties
>records, since we don\'t benefit from the drastic pruning introduced by
>the "promotional pricing" filter. Perhaps more seriously it\'s not
>clear that anyone would really find it useful.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10328,'Mon Oct 19 9:22:39 1998','FIXED',1,10320,'
>In the search results page for both properties and resorts
>Im getting things like:
>\'Results 1 to 4 of at least 50
> Page 1 of 10\'
> when theres only four result from the search
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10329,'Mon Oct 19 12:42:16 1998','magically disapear',1,0,'
Will,
You had fixed a problem with null (or blank) picture paths being expanded in the templates to "". This is now reoccuring with the new Template.pm. Also the ONLYIF stuff doesn\'t seem to work eithier.
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10330,'Mon Oct 19 13:58:09 1998','SkiForager',20,0,'
Everybody,
Could you please take a look at:
http://www.iglu.com/html/IForager.html
And check out SkiForager, (it does take a while to load), so please be patient (a faster version is on the road).
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10331,'Mon Oct 19 13:58:53 1998','Re: magically disapear',4,10329,'
>Will,
>You had fixed a problem with null (or blank) picture paths being expanded in the templates to "". This is now reoccuring with the new Template.pm. Also the ONLYIF stuff doesn\'t seem to work eithier.
>TimJ
Yup, sorry, was consequence of botched un-debugifying
after tracking down perl problem :(
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10332,'Mon Oct 19 14:14:33 1998','Re: SkiForager',1,10330,'
lush.
I wish people would pay me to write java, not just this perl!!$$** stuff.
i wanna make pretty pictures
TimJ
>Everybody,
>Could you please take a look at:
>http://www.iglu.com/html/IForager.html
>And check out SkiForager, (it does take a while to load), so please be patient (a faster version is on the road).
>
>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10333,'Mon Oct 19 16:31:49 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: speed',1,10315,'
Now fixed.
My bench test showed a speed increase of 80%, combining template and search effeciency improvements.
Response times are now good.
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10334,'Mon Oct 19 16:32:08 1998','FIXED',1,10333,'
>Now fixed.
>My bench test showed a speed increase of 80%, combining template and search effeciency improvements.
>Response times are now good.
>TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10335,'Mon Oct 19 18:34:48 1998','Iglu.com server',113,0,'Posted on behalf of Graham Loader by TimJ
Just to confirm that this afternoon we set the two directories that contain
Perl scripts on the Iglu site to run their scripts in isolated memory space.
As no other scripts on the machine run in isolated space, this allowed us
to monitor the mtx processes used by the script directories.
We ran a series of tests (running Perl scripts on the iglu site) to monitor
the performance of the processes. In all cases the INETINFO process itself
ran at normal use of resources, while the MTX processes used resources
during
the execution of the perl scripts. However on a number of occasions it
became clear that the Perl script processes were failing to terminate
correctly. This resulted in full CPU usage and a steadily increasing use of
memory as the process continued to run.
The problems encountered last weekend and the weekend before therefore, were
almost certainly caused by the Iglu Perl processes eventually using all
available memory until the machine\'s web servers could not run.
The Iglu virtual server is currently suspended to give you a chance to look
into these problems.
Graham
---
Graham Loader
Webmaster
I-Way Limited
T: 0118 950 8900
F: 0118 951 2345
W: http://www.i-way.net.uk
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10336,'Mon Oct 19 18:42:30 1998','Re: Iglu.com server',1,10335,'
Iway have taken the iglu virtual server down overnight, as they are worried about it bringing down other sites on the same server.
The server will be back up at 8am.
At 9am I will attempt to establish with graham at i-iway which scripts are not terminating correctly.
Will and Chippy, can you please check that you are not causing this problem by kicking off a process that doesn\'t finish.
Will, can you also look at /cgi-int to check we have the latest libraries and nothing silly is happening.
An idea!!!!:
When calling booking_goto.pl, we redirect to another script, does booking_goto.pl ever finish?
I will check this in the am.
Other ideas are much appreciated. This is a serious issue for all concerned (Iglu, APR, HOOP and I-way). We need a soluton tomorrow.
When we
>
>Just to confirm that this afternoon we set the two directories that contain
>Perl scripts on the Iglu site to run their scripts in isolated memory space.
>As no other scripts on the machine run in isolated space, this allowed us
>to monitor the mtx processes used by the script directories.
>We ran a series of tests (running Perl scripts on the iglu site) to monitor
>the performance of the processes. In all cases the INETINFO process itself
>ran at normal use of resources, while the MTX processes used resources
>during
>the execution of the perl scripts. However on a number of occasions it
>became clear that the Perl script processes were failing to terminate
>correctly. This resulted in full CPU usage and a steadily increasing use of
>memory as the process continued to run.
>The problems encountered last weekend and the weekend before therefore, were
>almost certainly caused by the Iglu Perl processes eventually using all
>available memory until the machine\'s web servers could not run.
>The Iglu virtual server is currently suspended to give you a chance to look
>into these problems.
>Graham
>
>---
>Graham Loader
>Webmaster
>I-Way Limited
>T: 0118 950 8900
>F: 0118 951 2345
>W: http://www.i-way.net.uk
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10337,'Tue Oct 20 8:08:43 1998','script problems',1,0,'
Will,
I am still experiencing problems (hangs) with
BookingGoto.pl and ChaletShortlist.pl,
can you confirm that these work fine on your machine.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10338,'Tue Oct 20 8:34:07 1998','today (1998/10/20)',1,0,'
Iglu.com is now back up.
We are still experiencing problems with the site, but not in the database administration area.
So.. Iglu can continue to enter their data, but everyone needs to keep clear of the phase 1 site area, until advised otherwise.
I will let everyone know when we are making and testing changes to ensure that it is not inconvenient.
Please bear with us, we are going to crack this today!
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10339,'Tue Oct 20 9:49:49 1998','Re: DBIUtil::selectOneOrLess_hashref',2,10298,'
>Chippy---
>is it OK if this returns undef rather than an empty
>hash in the no-hits case?
Sorry Will, I thought I had answered this: Yes, please
change it!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10340,'Tue Oct 20 9:53:56 1998','FIXED',2,10316,'
>It has been requested that the date fields in the booking form (property booking dates and transport dates - currently text boxes) be converted to drop down lists in the style of the property search dates.
>In order to accommodate this space wise, we could reorganise the layout of the booking fields thus:
>title - first name - surname
>transport required - place of departure departure
>date to leave - date to return
>
>etc
>also - none of the transport fields should be mandatory
I have now done this. Note that as a side-effect Date.pm has
been changed. It will now die if you try to create an invalid
date such as 29th of February during a non-leap year.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10341,'Tue Oct 20 10:57:27 1998','Re: ACTION JOHN: Re: phase 2 menu items',23,10324,'
>>can you confirm the words are correct, and come up with a sensible order.
here is the final list of all nav functions in an order that
seems to make sence - though Im open to any further suggestions
*Ski Forager
*Search Properties
*Search Resorts
*Your Shortlist
*Your Booking
*Promotions
*Travel
*Insurance
*Other Products (this is stuff like ski passes, ski rental ski school etc - all static pages)
*Weather Report
*Bulletin Boards
*Snow Sport Tips (including all the fitness and instruction stuff)
*Newsletter
*Terms and Conditions
*About Iglu.com
*Owner’s Login
*Help
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10342,'Tue Oct 20 13:08:32 1998','Re: SkiForager',3,10330,'
>Everybody,
>Could you please take a look at:
>http://www.iglu.com/html/IForager.html
>And check out SkiForager, (it does take a while to load), so please be patient (a faster version is on the road).
I am afraid it didn\'t work and still won\'t work,
I have cleared cache and reloaded, shut the machine down and reloded but in each case it
fails with : \'java class already loaded\' .
yours
timP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10343,'Tue Oct 20 14:46:05 1998','ACTION KRUGER: Re: phase 2 menu items',1,10341,'
Krugs,
can you build the menu for phase 2 please:
we need the following items (in this order):
>*Ski Forager
>*Property Search
>*Resort Search
>*Your Shortlist
>*Your Booking
>*Promotions
>*Travel
>*Insurance
>*Other Products (this is stuff like ski passes, ski rental ski school etc - all static pages)
>*Weather Report
>*Bulletin Boards
>*Snow Sport Tips
>*Newsletter
>*Terms and Conditions
>*About Iglu.com
>*Owner’s Login
Can you also make header graphics for all of the above.
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10344,'Tue Oct 20 17:21:29 1998','Re: FIXED',23,10340,'
>>It has been requested that the date fields in the booking form (property booking dates and transport dates - currently text boxes) be converted to drop down lists in the style of the property search dates.
>>In order to accommodate this space wise, we could reorganise the layout of the booking fields thus:
>>title - first name - surname
>>transport required - place of departure departure
>>date to leave - date to return
I was kinda thinking that we could organise these fields
by person rather than by type - ie
person 1
>>title - first name - surname
>>transport required - place of departure departure
>>date to leave - date to return
person 2
>>title - first name - surname
>>transport required - place of departure departure
>>date to leave - date to return
etc
is this possible / desirable?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10345,'Tue Oct 20 17:22:42 1998','Re: FIXED',23,10340,'
Also..
in the \'transport required\' box can we have a \'none\' displayed by default?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10346,'Tue Oct 20 17:33:54 1998','Booking DOB',23,0,'
There should also be a DOB inputfor each person in the booking form -
linked to the dob field in the customer table
(this is used for insurance and ski pass etc)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10347,'Tue Oct 20 17:36:48 1998','Booking date validation',23,0,'
Is it possible to check the arrival date against
the departure date to make sure the latter is
later than the former???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10348,'Tue Oct 20 17:55:14 1998','Booking terms and conditions',23,0,'
Can we have a link to the terms and conditions page
from the booking form - just to emphasise the point?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10349,'Tue Oct 20 18:37:37 1998','freaky',23,0,'
dont want to freak anyone out - but -
Ive just installed Netscape 4.06, and im still
getting our old friend
Error
No field `location\' , or any other, in form
at intermitant intervals?????
and also - im getting
Error
Expanding code and conditionals
Query SELECT * FROM pricing WHERE pricing.property = ORDER BY startdate:
[-3100] 2227; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression \'pricing.property =\'."
when I select more details from the property search results
but only in NS
???
??
?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10350,'Tue Oct 20 18:51:25 1998','secondary icon order',23,0,'
how does this look?
Property search results
Book Alaska now
Add Alaska to shortlist
Property shortlist
Resort shortlist
Resort Courchevel
Domain Les Trois Vallées
Customer comments
also
maybe we could have a subtle colour difference on the text
for the different blocks ie
Book Alaska now
Add Alaska to shortlist
would be the same colour, but slghtly different to the others ??? -- just a thought
also
could we have a different colour on the - just for that old time posative feedback feeling??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10351,'Tue Oct 20 19:54:33 1998','TV and Satellite prices',23,0,'
As suggested - converting the tv prices adn satellite prices fields in the
property table to text fields has been roundly hailed as
a good idea - coz then we can include the price units.
Likewise for the linen and the towels
However - would it be possible to preserve all the numbers
that have gone in already as text?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10352,'Tue Oct 20 19:58:16 1998','miscelanious property info',23,0,'
The text info that appears underneath the \'Parking\' info
on the property details page - could it be labelled \'miscelanious\'?
as it appears to be part of the parking info?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10353,'Tue Oct 20 20:08:29 1998','access to property',23,0,'
in the \'access to property\' section of the property information -
the \'access to property\' label and the text are next to
each other causing the text to scrunch into a tiny column.
(eg - search for courchevel, 9-19 persons - and look at
No. 227 126 (10 Person), Courchevel)
could we put the \'access to property\' over the text?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10354,'Wed Oct 21 9:35:40 1998','Iglu Server',1,0,'
We think we have at least found a possible cause for the server problems.
On monday, I-way isolated the iglu http process from the other processes running on the server, this showed that some scripts were not terminating correctly, and hence clogging up the server cpu and consuming memory. This would eventualy lead to the web server stopping, which is exactly the symptoms experienced when the server has gone down before.
Following investigatrions, the problem on monday was caused by a bug in the scripts introduced as we were doing time trial checks over the weekend. These amendments have significantly speeded up the site and so were worthwhile overall.
Yesterday, we spent considerable time chaecking all the scripts and ensuring there were no problems outstanding.
The suspecion is that earlier crashes were caused by a script not terminating on the server, although this cannot be proved. To prevent problems in the future, the following procedures will be adopted:
1) New scripts will be thoroughly checked as they are put up, with special attention being paid to scripts not completing (this can be spotted by the server slowing considerably following the running of the script).
2) Outside office hours (8am - 6pm), when the server cannot easily be rebooted, scripts will not be uploaded directly, but rather passed to TimJ in order that he can test them on his NT server set-up, and confirm that they terminate correctly.
Hopefully this will lead to a more stable server, as we build up to going live on 01/11/1998.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10355,'Wed Oct 21 9:45:31 1998','booking confirmation',1,0,'
Chippy,
I am going to the booking with the following reference:
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-int/ski/our_details.pl?subject=booking&id=92
Everything looks cool until I confirm the booking when it says:
Query `SELECT * FROM Booking WHERE id = 6\' failed to match any records
id=6???, surely not.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10356,'Wed Oct 21 11:08:37 1998','FIXED',1,10317,'
>>let me know when you have added some pics, and i get the layout nice with the data.
>Ive added an new resort called \'resort test1\' in Spain, and
>put in some paths to existing pics.
4 pics appear on the resort and domain pages.
>A few things dont seem to be turning up in the output - towit:
>No ticks in the \'squash\' and \'fitness centre\' boxes
fixed
>No prices appearing in the ski pass table
should work now
>should cinema be a tick box?
it is now
>If there is no domain associated - should the \'domain none\' link lead anywhere?
there is a domain called none! The french do have some funny names don\'t they.
>
>>also, can you sort the pats for resort 5 and 30
>done
','f','',64,0,0);
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10357,'Wed Oct 21 11:12:41 1998','wind and rain',1,0,'
All,
the wind and rain appear to have brought my phone down (!$%$$$***£). The incompetance.
Anyway, if you need to, please call me on 01202 251 813. which still works.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10358,'Wed Oct 21 11:17:05 1998','FIXED',1,10304,'
>I have changed the administration scripts to prevent the full list of records being displayed on the list screen automatically.
>if there are selection options available for the table, you can now restrict the results set before displaying it
>I think this helps with larger results sets (properties etc)
>APR - you might like to point this change out to iglu before they think that all their data has disapeared :)
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10359,'Wed Oct 21 11:17:28 1998','FIXED',1,10305,'
>we hit a small hitch with duplicate display orders today, I have added to the reconcilation report a section that check for duplicates.
>I have run this and amended the only 2 tables with problems
>hope this helps
>tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10360,'Wed Oct 21 11:19:01 1998','FIXED',1,10331,'
>>Will,
>>You had fixed a problem with null (or blank) picture paths being expanded in the templates to "". This is now reoccuring with the new Template.pm. Also the ONLYIF stuff doesn\'t seem to work eithier.
>>TimJ
>Yup, sorry, was consequence of botched un-debugifying
>after tracking down perl problem :(
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10361,'Wed Oct 21 11:19:30 1998','FIXED',1,10336,'
>Iway have taken the iglu virtual server down overnight, as they are worried about it bringing down other sites on the same server.
>The server will be back up at 8am.
>At 9am I will attempt to establish with graham at i-iway which scripts are not terminating correctly.
>Will and Chippy, can you please check that you are not causing this problem by kicking off a process that doesn\'t finish.
>Will, can you also look at /cgi-int to check we have the latest libraries and nothing silly is happening.
>An idea!!!!:
>When calling booking_goto.pl, we redirect to another script, does booking_goto.pl ever finish?
>I will check this in the am.
>Other ideas are much appreciated. This is a serious issue for all concerned (Iglu, APR, HOOP and I-way). We need a soluton tomorrow.
>When we
>>
>>Just to confirm that this afternoon we set the two directories that contain
>>Perl scripts on the Iglu site to run their scripts in isolated memory space.
>>As no other scripts on the machine run in isolated space, this allowed us
>>to monitor the mtx processes used by the script directories.
>>We ran a series of tests (running Perl scripts on the iglu site) to monitor
>>the performance of the processes. In all cases the INETINFO process itself
>>ran at normal use of resources, while the MTX processes used resources
>>during
>>the execution of the perl scripts. However on a number of occasions it
>>became clear that the Perl script processes were failing to terminate
>>correctly. This resulted in full CPU usage and a steadily increasing use of
>>memory as the process continued to run.
>>The problems encountered last weekend and the weekend before therefore, were
>>almost certainly caused by the Iglu Perl processes eventually using all
>>available memory until the machine\'s web servers could not run.
>>The Iglu virtual server is currently suspended to give you a chance to look
>>into these problems.
>>Graham
>>
>>---
>>Graham Loader
>>Webmaster
>>I-Way Limited
>>T: 0118 950 8900
>>F: 0118 951 2345
>>W: http://www.i-way.net.uk
','f','',64,0,0);
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10362,'Wed Oct 21 11:19:49 1998','FIXED',1,10337,'
>Will,
>I am still experiencing problems (hangs) with
>BookingGoto.pl and ChaletShortlist.pl,
>can you confirm that these work fine on your machine.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10363,'Wed Oct 21 11:20:06 1998','FIXED',1,10338,'
>Iglu.com is now back up.
>We are still experiencing problems with the site, but not in the database administration area.
>So.. Iglu can continue to enter their data, but everyone needs to keep clear of the phase 1 site area, until advised otherwise.
>I will let everyone know when we are making and testing changes to ensure that it is not inconvenient.
>Please bear with us, we are going to crack this today!
>Cheers
>TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
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10364,'Wed Oct 21 11:50:21 1998','Re: freaky',1,10349,'
>dont want to freak anyone out - but -
>Ive just installed Netscape 4.06, and im still
> getting our old friend
>Error
>No field `location\' , or any other, in form
>at intermitant intervals?????
>
>and also - im getting
>Error
>Expanding code and conditionals
>Query SELECT * FROM pricing WHERE pricing.property = ORDER BY startdate:
>[-3100] 2227; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression \'pricing.property =\'."
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is pointing to an url on paneris!!!!
you have something drastically wrong happening here. It may be a netscape bug. Or maybe a very dodgey cached page. Please call and we\'ll try and work out what is happening.
I have never seen anything like it!
I have now upgraded to 4.04, and have no problems. I will upgrade to 4.07 if required.
>when I select more details from the property search results
>but only in NS
>???
>??
>?
','f','',64,0,0);
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10365,'Wed Oct 21 13:15:10 1998','not eating enough',1,0,'
Will,
in the past:
between people would help
also - maybe we could take the font size on the labels down a point or two
and perhaps justify labels to the left edge of their
corresponding boxes.
all merely suggestions - Im wide open to ideas.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10385,'Wed Oct 21 17:29:42 1998','short no frills software agreement',1,0,'
Please can anybody who wants to comment on the following:
All of the software supplied as part of the iglu project is avaiable for everyone involved to use and change in the future, provided that the original authors are acknowledged.
Additionally, the software cannot be used by a competitor of iglu to supply holiday information services.
This in not a legalally binding agreement.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10386,'Wed Oct 21 17:30:07 1998','fixed',4,10365,'
>Please be careful when changing template.pm
Not guilty guv, I didn\'t change anything, it\'s just
that it never DID work since the switch to the quicker
template code ... :) (hmmm, it\'s quicker but it\'s
now neither properly iterative like the old code nor
properly recursive like the new one, in fact it\'s
a hack but it is certainly quite fast).
Also put a workaround in Iglu::currencyConversion
for the sprintf-crashes-Activeware-Perl problem ...
Updated Template.pm and Iglu.pm uploaded to cgi-bin.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10387,'Wed Oct 21 17:36:45 1998','fixed',4,10386,'
*&%!!$** half-composed message ... gist should be clear!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10388,'Wed Oct 21 17:39:17 1998','Re: short no frills software agreement',20,10385,'
>Please can anybody who wants to comment on the following:
>All of the software supplied as part of the iglu project is avaiable for everyone involved to use and change in the future, provided that the original authors are acknowledged.
>Additionally, the software cannot be used by a competitor of iglu to supply holiday information services.
>This in not a legalally binding agreement.
Initally they wanted full Intellectual Property Rights to all source code, with the ability to give it without our say or acknowledgement to any one who invested in them!!! Scary or what.
As I recall from College \'Computer Law\' courses, in comuter programs it is the thought that is copyrighted, the algorithm. I believe this is right.
Ben Janes
trying to remember his Uni Degree
','f','',64,0,0);
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10389,'Wed Oct 21 17:44:11 1998','Re: short no frills software agreement',4,10385,'
>Please can anybody who wants to comment on the following:
>All of the software supplied as part of the iglu project is avaiable for everyone involved to use and change in the future, provided that the original authors are acknowledged.
>Additionally, the software cannot be used by a competitor of iglu to supply holiday information services.
>This in not a legalally binding agreement.
OK, but how about an additional stipulation that any
work based on or containing the Program must also be
distributed under the same terms?
','f','',64,0,0);
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10390,'Wed Oct 21 17:47:08 1998','Re: FIXED',2,10340,'
I have now re-updated Date.pm after it got clobbered.
Watch out!
>>It has been requested that the date fields in the booking form (property booking dates and transport dates - currently text boxes) be converted to drop down lists in the style of the property search dates.
>>In order to accommodate this space wise, we could reorganise the layout of the booking fields thus:
>>title - first name - surname
>>transport required - place of departure departure
>>date to leave - date to return
>>
>>etc
>>also - none of the transport fields should be mandatory
>I have now done this. Note that as a side-effect Date.pm has
>been changed. It will now die if you try to create an invalid
>date such as 29th of February during a non-leap year.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10391,'Wed Oct 21 18:14:19 1998','FIXED',2,10384,'
>
>>I have done this, but I don\'t think it\'s as clear as it was
>>previously. Let me know what you think, John.
>
>I think that generally this is a better way of laying it out
>it just needs a little tweaking to make it clear whats happenning
>Maybe a
between people would help
>also - maybe we could take the font size on the labels down a point or two
>and perhaps justify labels to the left edge of their
>corresponding boxes.
>all merely suggestions - Im wide open to ideas.
The changes work well - looks a lot better
','f','',64,0,0);
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10392,'Wed Oct 21 18:16:59 1998','FIXED',2,10348,'
>Can we have a link to the terms and conditions page
> from the booking form - just to emphasise the point?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10393,'Wed Oct 21 19:15:02 1998','Re: Re: short no frills software agreement',4,10389,'
To expand a little, the usual thing with `open source\' (sometimes in a
technical sense called `free\') software is to publish it under the GNU
General Public Licence or the GNU Library General Public Licence.
The LGPL is appropriate for library code such as Template.pm,
Database.pm and so on. The library itself, or libraries/programs
derived from it, can only be redistributed under the LGPL or the GPL,
which means source code. Programs that merely use the library can be
distributed under any terms at all---but they must
o LGPL-distribute the any changes they made to the library
o make available their objects (or source) so that you can
modify the library and relink against their own code
This means that Microsoft could use a GNU library in Office, without
making Office itself free, but they would have to make it possible for
you to rebuild Office against a modified version of the library! (And
of course distribute freely any changes they made to the library.)
The GPL is appropriate for an actual program, such as the
Iglu-specific scripts. GPL\'d programs, and programs derived from or
including them, can only be redistributed under the GPL.
There are lots of other "yes, good point"-type clauses like: there is
absolutely no warranty; copyright, no-warranty and license notices
must be left intact; modifications must be logged prominently "so that
any problems introduced by others will not reflect on the original
authors\' reputations".
To apply the GPL/LGPL we simply have to attach a standard notice to
the top of every file, saying
Copyright (C)
This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify it under the terms of the GNU Library General Public
License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either
version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
This library is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU
Library General Public License for more details.
You should have received a copy of the GNU Library General Public
License along with this library; if not, write to the
Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330,
Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA.
Finally I don\'t see any problem in saying "you can redistribute this
under these terms ... " (cut\'n\'paste from GPL/LGPL) " ... with the
additional stipulation that it, or works derived from it, can\'t be
used for any purpose which will compete with iglu.com. In the event
of a conflict between the terms above and this additional stipulation,
the latter will take precedence."
','f','',64,0,0);
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10394,'Wed Oct 21 19:19:20 1998','Re: Re: FIXED',4,10390,'
OK, I have merged your changes into cgi-bin
sorry about that!
','f','',64,0,0);
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10395,'Wed Oct 21 21:23:51 1998','Re: bargains',1,10378,'
OK,
some some reason the examples were not working. this post has amended urls:
>`Bargains\' skeleton available for comment at
>http://www.iglu.com/skeleton/BargainsAdmin.html
>http://www.iglu.com/cgi-int/bargs/BargainsRequestRegister.pl
>It\'s supposed to work like this:
>`Bargains\' simply means offline search; there is no requirement to
>manage special `promotional\' pricing records.
>Users register for an offline search through a form very like property
>search.
>http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/bargs/BargainsRequestRegister.pl
>They are periodically sent an email informing them that their search
>has thrown up some new hits, which happens as new properties are added
>and/or prices change. The email contains a link to a page which will
>list their new search matches, exactly as on the online property
>search, and give them the option of changing the search criteria or
>terminating the search.
>On the admin side, the administrators can trigger the system to
>perform everyone\'s offline sort e.g. once a week, preferably at some
>quiet period.
>http://www.iglu.com/skeleton/BargainsSearchRun.html
>After that they can see a list of all the customers whose offline
>searches have (now or in the past) generated matches about which they
>have not yet been emailed.
>http://www.iglu.com/skeleton/BargainsMatchList.html
>>From there they are able to tailorise the email which the customer
>will receive, or mark the search hits as `no action\'.
>http://www.iglu.com/skeleton/BargainsMatch.html
>The customer will receive no further emails about this particular
>match, though they may receive emails mentioning the same property.
>Once all a customer\'s offline search hits have been actioned---or if
>there weren\'t any hits in the first place---the customer moves to the
>list of unmatched searches.
>http://www.iglu.com/skeleton/BargainsNoMatchList.html
>If the customer\'s search is terminated by Iglu from the admin screens
>or by the customer, the customer disappears from the listings and
>receives no more email.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10396,'Wed Oct 21 21:25:41 1998','Action Dan: Re: Re: bargains',1,10395,'
Dan,
We need this design agreed as soon as possible today, so we can start building straight away.
Please discuss with iglu (or I can) to sign it off.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10397,'Wed Oct 21 21:31:01 1998','Re: bargains',1,10378,'
Will,
you have not uploaded the javascript for the bargains
(appologies if it is not yet meant to be there)
Also, for some reason I had to move the scripts to /bargs (not /bargains). I am a very confused little boy.
I have messed with the scripts, so please pick up the latest.
Also, I think you have not added pref_active to the DB online.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10398,'Wed Oct 21 22:56:23 1998','Re: Re: bargains',4,10397,'
>Will,
>Also, for some reason I had to move the scripts to /bargs (not /bargains). I am a very confused little boy.
weird, computers suck
>I have messed with the scripts, so please pick up the latest.
sorry, stomped on BargainsRequestAck :(, can you restore?
>Also, I think you have not added pref_active to the DB online.
again, sorry, it\'s on my todo list but I getting "can\'t
lock table `customer\'; currently in use by user `admin\'"
','f','',64,0,0);
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10399,'Wed Oct 21 23:12:02 1998','Re: Re: Re: bargains',1,10398,'
>>Will,
>>Also, for some reason I had to move the scripts to /bargs (not /bargains). I am a very confused little boy.
>weird, computers suck
>>I have messed with the scripts, so please pick up the latest.
>sorry, stomped on BargainsRequestAck :(, can you restore?
no stress, no big change, probably superfuleous now. does yours still run online?
>>Also, I think you have not added pref_active to the DB online.
>again, sorry, it\'s on my todo list but I getting "can\'t
>lock table `customer\'; currently in use by user `admin\'"
yak. you can alway action Ben to do this, he seems to have adopted the DB, very sweet of him.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10400,'Thu Oct 22 0:20:51 1998','phase 2 menu items',1,0,'
these have been added to the site, graphics will come soon.
Please have a good play with the bulletin boards.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10401,'Thu Oct 22 0:49:58 1998','messageboard',1,0,'
I have archived this again as we were pushing 100K again.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10402,'Thu Oct 22 10:24:19 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: bargains',4,10399,'
>>sorry, stomped on BargainsRequestAck :(, can you restore?
>no stress, no big change, probably superfuleous now. does yours still run online?
yep, but we have to remember to uncomment the pref_active
code sometime! :)
>>>Also, I think you have not added pref_active to the DB online.
>yak. you can alway action Ben to do this, he seems to have adopted the DB, very sweet of him.
Ben---can you ALTER TABLE Customer ADD COLUMN pref_active BOOLEAN?
(NB if you actually do it over Jet ODBC SQL you have to call it
LOGICAL)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10403,'Thu Oct 22 12:09:36 1998','NatWest Streamline',2,0,'
Dear all,
I have received this from Keith Wood at SecureTrading:
>Myles
>
>No problem.
>
>Please confirm that you have applied to NatWest Streamline for a merchant
>credit card account.
>
>Keith
Could someone from APR please confirm this.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
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10404,'Thu Oct 22 12:10:19 1998','FIXED',2,10346,'
>There should also be a DOB inputfor each person in the booking form -
>linked to the dob field in the customer table
>(this is used for insurance and ski pass etc)
','f','',64,0,0);
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10405,'Thu Oct 22 12:16:48 1998','FIXED',2,10309,'
>>>Are you developing in cgi-bin because it\'s admin?
>>sorry, meant cgi-int of course
>I was developing in cgi-bin, but there was no impact on
>the libraries, so I was testing it in cgi-int (one of
>my scripts needs to redirect to the Travel Pack.
>Have you updated Iglu.pm in cgi-int, because I still can\'t
>see the times?
>Myles
they\'re back again
','f','',64,0,0);
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10406,'Thu Oct 22 12:21:57 1998','FIXED',2,10042,'
>>On the Login page, we use "Personal name" and "Family name"
>>and on the booking page we use "First name" and "Surname".
>>Which is right?
>"Family name" is a bit laboured, "Personal name" even more
>so, but not all cultures put names in the same order so I
>thought ...
>But personally I would, on reflection, go with first/sur.
I\'ve altered the login screen to show first name and surname
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10407,'Thu Oct 22 14:20:00 1998','Re: NatWest Streamline',23,10403,'
>Dear all,
>I have received this from Keith Wood at SecureTrading:
>>Myles
>>
>>No problem.
>>
>>Please confirm that you have applied to NatWest Streamline for a merchant
>>credit card account.
>>
>>Keith
>
>Could someone from APR please confirm this.
>Myles
Richard at iglu says we will have this tomorrow
','f','',64,0,0);
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10408,'Thu Oct 22 15:48:55 1998','FIXED',1,10192,'
>>All,
>>Here is a definitive list of pricing units:
>>per apartment per night
>>per apartment per week
>>per chalet per week
>>per person per week
>>per person per night
>>per person per two weeks
>>per room per night (based on 2 people)
>>per room per night (based on 3 people)
>>per room per night (based on 4 people)
>>per room per night (based on 5 people)
>>This list, will be the list used for pricing units, any other info will go in an new field called: \'Extras\' which will be a \'Memo\' field.
>>The \'per room per night (based on 2 people)\' style records are for hotels, where rooms, are based for a set number of poeple. It is the absolute price to be paid for the room and is not multiplied by anything.
>>Confused? I was.
>>Ben Janes.
>
>The Prices table, and the priceunit look up table have been altered to reflect these alterations.
>
>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
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10409,'Thu Oct 22 17:44:48 1998','Re: Re: Re: short no frills software agreement',4,10393,'
courtesy of chippy, a simpler idea:
LGPL the libraries, don\'t license the actual scripts at
all except to Iglu who can do what they like
','f','',64,0,0);
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10410,'Thu Oct 22 17:54:59 1998','fixed',4,10402,'
>Ben---can you ALTER TABLE Customer ADD COLUMN pref_active BOOLEAN?
>(NB if you actually do it over Jet ODBC SQL you have to call it
>LOGICAL)
done this now
','f','',64,0,0);
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10411,'Thu Oct 22 18:00:07 1998','newsletters',4,0,'
User side:
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/newsletters/Newsletters.pl
Admin side:
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/newsletters/NewsletterPublish.pl
No design in there yet and one rough edge, anyway (date
display).
','f','',64,0,0);
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10412,'Thu Oct 22 18:30:43 1998','Re: Re: SkiForager',20,10342,'
>>Everybody,
>>Could you please take a look at:
>>http://www.iglu.com/html/IForager.html
>>And check out SkiForager, (it does take a while to load), so please be patient (a faster version is on the road).
>I am afraid it didn\'t work and still won\'t work,
>I have cleared cache and reloaded, shut the machine down and reloded but in each case it
>fails with : \'java class already loaded\' .
Coming soon a new improved Java veriosn: compiled with JDK 1.0.2 , to enable those with not so up to date browsers to view it.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
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10413,'Thu Oct 22 18:41:12 1998','Re: Action Dan: Re: Re: bargains',23,10396,'
>Dan,
>We need this design agreed as soon as possible today, so we can start building straight away.
>Please discuss with iglu (or I can) to sign it off.
Having discussed this with iglu - comments as follows:
Basically they hadnt thought it through either, but they were pleased with
your solution - with a few provisos - mainly, what happens if there are
thousands of users, and therefore thousands of matches??
Bite the bullet was my advice...
but also
could we in \'Process offline search matches\' (BargainsMatchList.html)
can we have a button
on the left of each result that fires off the relevant email
as is, (ie send the email in BargainsMatch.html without
having to actually go into BargainsMatch.html)?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10414,'Thu Oct 22 19:13:06 1998','Re: Re: Action Dan: Re: Re: bargains',4,10413,'
>Bite the bullet was my advice...
:)
>but also
>could we in \'Process offline search matches\' (BargainsMatchList.html)
> can we have a button
>on the left of each result that fires off the relevant email
>as is, (ie send the email in BargainsMatch.html without
>having to actually go into BargainsMatch.html)?
Good idea.
Tim---can I go ahead with this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10415,'Thu Oct 22 19:21:37 1998','Re: newsletters',4,10411,'
Couple of things I meant to mention:
I haven\'t used the newsletter.issue field, but just
the id. They are both essentially autoincrements and
I didn\'t see any substantial reason to have both.
So newsletter.issue can go if that\'s OK.
Tim: can we add a "MonthYYYY" fieldtype to the data
dictionary to go with Date and DateTime? It seems
a natural place to tell the system that the newsletter
issue date should print as Month YYYY---along the lines
Chippy is urging on us to refine the type definitions
and even include some validation info.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10416,'Thu Oct 22 21:34:07 1998','iglu.com licence agreement',1,0,'
Proposal:
Hoop and APR are suppling the software used for the iglu.com website under 2 licences:
1) The generic libraries used are supplied under the LGPL (href link). All files covered by this licence will be identified as such at the top of the file. An example of a file covered under this clause is (link) Template.pm
2) Hoop and APR grant Iglu.com an exclusive licence to all other all other files, including graphics. An example of a file covered under this clause is (link) About_content.html
This licence is designed to protect iglu.com\'s investment whilst allowing Hoop and APR to continue to generic libraries supplied as part of the website.
','f','',64,0,0);
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10417,'Thu Oct 22 21:58:54 1998','FIXED',1,10271,'
>>Also
>>the current order of these secondary navigation functions
>>is a little confusing. Any ideas how we can clarify this a little?
>>could we group them together a little more intuatively perhaps?
>>for example:
>>add to shortlist
>>view property shortlist
>>view resort shortlist
>>(space)
>>property list for resort
>>view domain details
>>this would group all the shortlist functions together
>>any other ideas??
> Add Aparthotel La Neu (6p) to shortlist
> Property shortlist
> Resort shortlist
> Customer comments
> Resort Ordino-Arcalis
> Domain Andorra
> Property search results
> Book Aparthotel La Neu (6p) now
>
>any good? (the resort and domain details would follow the same pattern
','f','',64,0,0);
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10418,'Thu Oct 22 21:59:22 1998','booking request',1,0,'
Query UPDATE Customer SET dob = \'-01-01\', Title = 1, Name = \'bob\', Surname = \'bob\' WHERE id = 151:[-3030] [184] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10419,'Thu Oct 22 22:01:11 1998','Re: SkiForager',1,10330,'
Ben,
Is the text on the Iforager.html page correct? If so, I\'ll make it a bit prettier
Happy birthday
tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10420,'Thu Oct 22 22:02:48 1998','Re: Re: Re: Action Dan: Re: Re: bargains',1,10414,'
>>Bite the bullet was my advice...
>:)
>>but also
>>could we in \'Process offline search matches\' (BargainsMatchList.html)
>> can we have a button
>>on the left of each result that fires off the relevant email
>>as is, (ie send the email in BargainsMatch.html without
>>having to actually go into BargainsMatch.html)?
>Good idea.
>Tim---can I go ahead with this?
yes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10421,'Thu Oct 22 22:04:28 1998','FIXED',1,10290,'
>>Sorry if you have written them already :(
>Don\'t worry ...
>I\'ve been a bit slow off the mark this week because of
>interruptions so I hadn\'t touched them.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10422,'Fri Oct 23 0:16:20 1998','Re: Re: SkiForager',23,10419,'
>Ben,
>Is the text on the Iforager.html page correct? If so, I\'ll make it a bit prettier
havent quite finalised this yet - give it a couple of days.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10423,'Fri Oct 23 0:34:11 1998','delete person from booking',23,0,'
In booking when I try to delete a person from teh group I get
Error
Query UPDATE Customer SET dob = \'-01-01\', Title = 1, Name = \'j\', Surname = \'t\' WHERE id = 49:
[-3030] [335] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression."
is this maybe because its an old group and some data types have changed?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10424,'Fri Oct 23 0:42:17 1998','login',23,0,'
trying to create the same login twice seems to yield:
Error
Query `SELECT * FROM booking WHERE grouplogin = \'jt\'\' matched more than one record
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10425,'Fri Oct 23 0:46:41 1998','add to shortlist',23,0,'
when performing the following sequence:
from property search results -
select add to shortlist to add a property
create new login
confirm login details - submit
through to property shortlist
but
the property fails to appear in the shortlist
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10426,'Fri Oct 23 0:58:32 1998','search results',23,0,'
in search results (property and resort) can we display the
country name at the top as well as the property and resort names?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10427,'Fri Oct 23 9:52:22 1998','more details',23,0,'
in property search results - could we have a \'more details\' link
next to the resort information that takes you through to the resort
details page?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10428,'Fri Oct 23 10:13:43 1998','promotions',23,0,'
the promotions page
(ie the page immediately behind the \'promotions link - not the bargains stuff)
will not now be the dynamic page as depicted in the oyster spec (page 5)
Instead it will be a static page containing mainly text (maybe the odd picture)
I will get some sample content today ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10429,'Fri Oct 23 10:16:31 1998','FIXED',1,10343,'
>Krugs,
>can you build the menu for phase 2 please:
>we need the following items (in this order):
>>*Ski Forager
>>*Property Search
>>*Resort Search
>>*Your Shortlist
>>*Your Booking
>>*Promotions
>>*Travel
>>*Insurance
>>*Other Products (this is stuff like ski passes, ski rental ski school etc - all static pages)
>>*Weather Report
>>*Bulletin Boards
>>*Snow Sport Tips
>>*Newsletter
>>*Terms and Conditions
>>*About Iglu.com
>>*Owner’s Login
>Can you also make header graphics for all of the above.
>Cheers
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10430,'Fri Oct 23 11:00:16 1998','FIXED',2,10418,'
>Query UPDATE Customer SET dob = \'-01-01\', Title = 1, Name = \'bob\', Surname = \'bob\' WHERE id = 151:[-3030] [184] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10431,'Fri Oct 23 11:01:58 1998','FIXED',2,10423,'
>In booking when I try to delete a person from teh group I get
>Error
>Query UPDATE Customer SET dob = \'-01-01\', Title = 1, Name = \'j\', Surname = \'t\' WHERE id = 49:
>[-3030] [335] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression."
>is this maybe because its an old group and some data types have changed?
No. Its me not having my programmin head on properly :-)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10432,'Fri Oct 23 11:40:07 1998','Java Applets - Splitting Pics',20,0,'
Hi,
In order to spead up SkiForager, download time, I intend (after advice from TimJ), to download all the pictures in one Image, and then split it up, into the separate images.
I had found how to do it, in JDK 1.1.7, but as IGLU want maximum exposure, I have to write in JDK 1.0.2, in order to work on the version 3 browsers.
I have found this Java method in 1.0.2,
public abstract boolean
drawImage(Image img, int x, int y, int width, int height, ImageObserver observer)
Which does:
Draws the specified image inside the specified rectangle of this graphics context\'s coordinate space. The image is scaled if necessary. Transparent pixels in the image do not affect whatever pixels are already there.
I am using the MediaTracker, so the picture will be fully loaded.
Any hints on how to do this?
BenJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10433,'Fri Oct 23 11:58:50 1998','Ski Passes',2,0,'
Dear all,
The Seafood spec shows users entering how many ski passes
they would like after they have been offered a chalet/transport
by Iglu. There are some problems with this, not least of
which is that the price data in at least one skipass field
is a range of dates. As a solution to this I suggest that
we allow each user to select whether they want a ski pass
or not (and how many days it is for) on the Booking Form
page so that Iglu can manually enter the ski pass cost on
the Booking Offer screen along with the rest of the pricing
data.
Does this sound like a good idea? If so, we will need the following
boolean fields in the BookCust table : SkiPass1Day, SkiPass6Day,
SkiPass7Day
Please let me know.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10434,'Fri Oct 23 12:13:23 1998','Re: Re: DBIUtil::selectOneOrLess_hashref',1,10339,'
>>Chippy---
>>is it OK if this returns undef rather than an empty
>>hash in the no-hits case?
>Sorry Will, I thought I had answered this: Yes, please
>change it!
is this fixed?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10435,'Fri Oct 23 12:17:35 1998','ACTION KRUGER: alink color',1,10350,'
>how does this look?
>
> Property search results
> Book Alaska now
> Add Alaska to shortlist
>
> Property shortlist
> Resort shortlist
>
> Resort Courchevel
> Domain Les Trois Vallées
>
> Customer comments
done
>
>also
>maybe we could have a subtle colour difference on the text
>for the different blocks ie
> Book Alaska now
> Add Alaska to shortlist
>would be the same colour, but slghtly different to the others ??? -- just a thought
don\'t really like it. Ayway, all links on a page need to be the same color (link).
>also
>could we have a different colour on the - just for that old time posative feedback feeling??
Krugs, can you come up with a good alink color
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10436,'Fri Oct 23 12:28:09 1998','fixed',4,10425,'
broke this while ""tidying"" something else ...
should know better at my age!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10437,'Fri Oct 23 12:35:40 1998','FIXED',1,10373,'
>After talking to IGLU,
>This is the solution:
>On property search results, for prices, there will be hyper-link through to the prices table for that property.
>Another thing:
>Could you please display the prices table, sorted by date, with the dates earliest in the year displayed first.
the table is currently sorted by date, is this what you mean?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10438,'Fri Oct 23 12:37:22 1998','FIXED',1,10400,'
>these have been added to the site, graphics will come soon.
>Please have a good play with the bulletin boards.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10439,'Fri Oct 23 12:37:36 1998','FIXED',1,10401,'
>I have archived this again as we were pushing 100K again.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10440,'Fri Oct 23 12:48:42 1998','weather',1,0,'
Emaneul has just told me that the link for this won\'t be avaliable until the middle of november.
We can write some words to this effect, or (better) remove the weather button from the navigation.
Comments?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10441,'Fri Oct 23 12:57:36 1998','Graphics needed',2,0,'
Dear Kruger,
Could you create the following icons:
1) "Pay Deposit" - (Blue & grey triangle to the right)
booking confirmation
2) "Pay Balance" - (Blue & grey triangle to the right)
Travel Pack
3) "All Boards" or "List Boards" or "View Boards"
(blue "square") - Bulletin Board Search
6) "All Articles" (blue "square") - Posting
7) "Reply to posting" or "Reply"
(Blue & grey triangle to the right) - Posting
8) "Post message" or "Post"
(Blue & grey triangle to the right) - Posting Post & Bulletin Board
And we also need a "Bulletin Boards" header graphic
called bulletinboards_head.gif which I understand you are
already making.
Thanks,
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10442,'Fri Oct 23 13:11:41 1998','ACTION Dan',4,10424,'
>trying to create the same login twice seems to yield:
>Error
>Query `SELECT * FROM booking WHERE grouplogin = \'jt\'\' matched more than one record
Hmmm, I rather assumed grouplogin was a unique field so this
"couldn\'t happen" (indeed it doesn\'t on my local machine ...).
How innocent of me ...
Can we please make it unique?
In the meantime I have changed Login.pm to silently log
you in if you submit the confirm screen twice (using
the back button you can do it---I knew that but reckoned
without John\'s thoroughness!) rather than throw up an
error as it does on my machine, or, much worse, create
a duplicate login as it does on the site.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10443,'Fri Oct 23 13:14:47 1998','NB cgi-int',4,10442,'
Tim---
I think the changes I made to the templates
would have broken cgi-int so I updated the cgi-int
scripts to match cgi-bin without clearing with you.
Hope that OK.
We really need two templates dirs ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10444,'Fri Oct 23 13:16:10 1998','fixed',4,10434,'
>is this fixed?
yes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10445,'Fri Oct 23 13:31:40 1998','FIXED but still action Ben',4,10442,'
I meant of course ACTION Ben ...
ACTION Dan sounds like a comic hero.
On further thought I deleted the duplicated group login
to make the immediate problem go away
but can we still have it made unique?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10446,'Fri Oct 23 13:53:37 1998','price search',23,0,'
something fishy in the price search area
price = <£50
date = 25/dec 98
yields
Error
Testing price of property `(id = `157\')Price unit `per room per night (based on 2 people)\' is not of the form`per/for person/chalet per/for (two/three) week(s)\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10447,'Fri Oct 23 13:57:51 1998','Re: NB cgi-int',1,10443,'
>Tim---
>I think the changes I made to the templates
>would have broken cgi-int so I updated the cgi-int
>scripts to match cgi-bin without clearing with you.
>Hope that OK.
Fine during office hours.
>We really need two templates dirs ...
No, very soon we will stop using cgi-bin altogether. It\'s just not worth it at this stage.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10448,'Fri Oct 23 14:02:57 1998','Re: FIXED but still action Ben',20,10445,'
>I meant of course ACTION Ben ...
>ACTION Dan sounds like a comic hero.
>On further thought I deleted the duplicated group login
>to make the immediate problem go away
>but can we still have it made unique?
Action Ben here,
The whole thing here is:
If I make the DB field unique, by indexing it, you would still have to check in your Perl scripts, that the entered grouplogin was unique, and did not exist in the DB already.
So, there is no need to make the DB field unique, just erpfom a check in the perl scripts, and flag up if the name exist already.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10449,'Fri Oct 23 14:05:15 1998','Re: Re: NB cgi-int',4,10447,'
>No, very soon we will stop using cgi-bin altogether. It\'s just not worth it at this stage.
MHLS
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10450,'Fri Oct 23 14:07:55 1998','Re: Re: Re: NB cgi-int',1,10449,'
>>No, very soon we will stop using cgi-bin altogether. It\'s just not worth it at this stage.
>MHLS
?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10451,'Fri Oct 23 14:08:11 1998','customer login',4,0,'
I have changed the cookie (in cgi-bin) to be your group
login rather than its id number, since that seemed
(cosmetically) less obviously insecure.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10452,'Fri Oct 23 14:08:34 1998','Re: Ski Passes',23,10433,'
>Dear all,
>The Seafood spec shows users entering how many ski passes
>they would like after they have been offered a chalet/transport
>by Iglu.
I think the reason for this is that the booking request
is essentially an availability request and so only availability
critical information is included on the form.
As ski passes are always available theres no point in
asking for a ski pass if your chalet is already booked.
>There are some problems with this, not least of
>which is that the price data in at least one skipass field
>is a range of dates.
pardon my brain, but I dont quite understand this...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10453,'Fri Oct 23 14:09:30 1998','FIXED',1,10426,'
>
>in search results (property and resort) can we display the
>country name at the top as well as the property and resort names?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10454,'Fri Oct 23 14:11:57 1998','Re: Re: Re: SkiForager',1,10422,'
>>Ben,
>>Is the text on the Iforager.html page correct? If so, I\'ll make it a bit prettier
>havent quite finalised this yet - give it a couple of days.
thursday + 2 days = saturday.
any chance?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10455,'Fri Oct 23 14:15:19 1998','Re: Re: FIXED but still action Ben',4,10448,'
>Action Ben here,
ACTION Ben, Database Man (what you are called on paneris ...)
>The whole thing here is:
>If I make the DB field unique, by indexing it, you would still have to check in your Perl scripts, that the entered grouplogin was unique, and did not exist in the DB already.
>So, there is no need to make the DB field unique, just erpfom a check in the perl scripts, and flag up if the name exist already.
Well, of course they do check that (especially now I\'ve
fixed it to cope with double confirmation :))
but I think it\'s good policy to enforce data integrity at the
lowest possible level.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10456,'Fri Oct 23 14:50:28 1998','FIXED',1,10427,'
>in property search results - could we have a \'more details\' link
>next to the resort information that takes you through to the resort
>details page?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10457,'Fri Oct 23 14:51:55 1998','Re: Re: Ski Passes',3,10452,'
>>Dear all,
>>The Seafood spec shows users entering how many ski passes
>>they would like after they have been offered a chalet/transport
>>by Iglu.
>I think the reason for this is that the booking request
>is essentially an availability request and so only availability
>critical information is included on the form.
>As ski passes are always available theres no point in
>asking for a ski pass if your chalet is already booked.
OK, so we still want people to request ski passes AFTER the booking
has been offered. The question then becomes "how do we know how much
to charge for each pass type". The easiest way to do this is to have
Iglu staff enter this data on the Booking Offer page. This will require
the following fields in Booking:
Cost1DyChld
Cost1DyAdlt
Cost6DyChld
Cost6DyAdlt
Cost7DyChld
Cost7DyAdlt
>>There are some problems with this, not least of
>>which is that the price data in at least one skipass field
>>is a range of dates.
>pardon my brain, but I dont quite understand this...
If the cost of a 1 day child ski pass is "497 F / 722 F"
and the customer says that they want one, how much do we
charge them?
On a similar vein, if the cost is \'90\' what do we charge them?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10458,'Fri Oct 23 14:53:15 1998','Re: Re: Ski Passes',3,10452,'
>>Dear all,
[snip]
>>There are some problems with this, not least of
>>which is that the price data in at least one skipass field
>>is a range of dates.
>pardon my brain, but I dont quite understand this...
Doh! This should be a range of prices, not dates.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10459,'Fri Oct 23 14:54:43 1998','price search',23,0,'
Also
a search on \'any\' for everything else
and
price = £<50
yields 1 result
Residence "La Daille Soleil" (5 Person), Val d\'Isère, France
but
search on price = £50 - £100
also yields the same result
??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10460,'Fri Oct 23 15:04:06 1998','Re: price search',4,10446,'
I\'m taking the search scripts back from Tim at his request
so I\'m going to fix this now ... watch this space
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10461,'Fri Oct 23 15:13:09 1998','not a bug',4,10459,'
We\'ve been through this before---
because we don\'t know exactly how many people are actually
going to be in the party (it\'s only a range), we don\'t
know exactly what the price per person is. So the same
pricing record/property can be a hit for two (or maybe
more!) adjacent price ranges.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10462,'Fri Oct 23 15:22:36 1998','Iglu{Search,Boards,...}.pm diagnostics',4,0,'
I once (!) put a diagnostic in IgluSearch.pm to print
the inferred directory of the script to STDERR.
I keep taking them out but they keep coming back
in all those little .pms.
Since this will definitely generate log entries which
i-way will interpret as errors/warnings, can we make
sure that our local copies don\'t have them in?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10463,'Fri Oct 23 15:23:13 1998','forward shortlist',23,0,'
when I forward a shortlist Im stuck in the forward shortlist page.
neither the submit or cancel buttons take you anywhere else.
Maybe they should take you back to the shortlist.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10464,'Fri Oct 23 15:23:17 1998','not a bug',4,10459,'
We\'ve been through this before---
because we don\'t know exactly how many people are actually
going to be in the party (it\'s only a range), we don\'t
know exactly what the price per person is. So the same
pricing record/property can be a hit for two (or maybe
more!) adjacent price ranges.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10465,'Fri Oct 23 15:23:38 1998','Iglu{Search,Boards,...}.pm diagnostics',4,0,'
I once (!) put a diagnostic in IgluSearch.pm to print
the inferred directory of the script to STDERR.
I keep taking them out but they keep coming back
in all those little .pms.
Since this will definitely generate log entries which
i-way will interpret as errors/warnings, can we make
sure that our local copies don\'t have them in?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10466,'Fri Oct 23 15:34:36 1998','booking management',23,0,'
when I try to modify an unconfirmed booking in booking management
I get
Error
No (booking) id form parameter
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10467,'Fri Oct 23 15:37:00 1998','fixed',4,10446,'
this textarea intentionally left blank
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10468,'Fri Oct 23 15:39:59 1998','Re: booking management',23,10466,'
>when I try to modify an unconfirmed booking in booking management
>I get
>Error
>No (booking) id form parameter
this has just fixed itself and now works
???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10469,'Fri Oct 23 15:44:02 1998','FIXED',1,10468,'
>>when I try to modify an unconfirmed booking in booking management
>>I get
>>Error
>>No (booking) id form parameter
>this has just fixed itself and now works
>???
chippy is working on the link to SecureTrading, so I guess it temproarilly broke
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10470,'Fri Oct 23 15:45:03 1998','fixed',4,10463,'
>when I forward a shortlist Im stuck in the forward shortlist page.
>neither the submit or cancel buttons take you anywhere else.
>Maybe they should take you back to the shortlist.
worse than that, it was simply broken (not submitting)
works now
the cause, yet again, was overstomping and resultant
mismatch between templates and scripts
with hindsight a little time setting up CVS SOMEWHERE
would have saved a lot of trouble ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10471,'Fri Oct 23 15:54:34 1998','Re: booking management',23,10466,'
>when I try to modify an unconfirmed booking in booking management
>I get
>Error
>No (booking) id form parameter
this has just fixed itself and now works
???
Im now getting this
Error
No (booking) id form parameter
when I try to submit a new booking in booking management.
Has anyone else seen this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10472,'Fri Oct 23 16:00:29 1998','ACTION JOHN: call management',1,0,'
this is now working, please test.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10473,'Fri Oct 23 16:04:51 1998','FIXED',2,10471,'
>>when I try to modify an unconfirmed booking in booking management
>>I get
>>Error
>>No (booking) id form parameter
>this has just fixed itself and now works
>???
>Im now getting this
>Error
>No (booking) id form parameter
>when I try to submit a new booking in booking management.
>Has anyone else seen this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10474,'Fri Oct 23 16:30:10 1998','Bulletin Boards',2,0,'
Will,
I\'ve been tarting up the Bulletin Board templates (and
at least one script - BulletinBoards.pl : get the latest
versions) and have discovered this:
1) Look at a message
2) Press the reply button next to the message (third
icon vertically)
3) Create and post (at the minute "submit") a message
4) Click on the back arrow from the confirmation screen
At this point we are at the same point as we were in
step 1, but we can see our new follow-up listed below
the message.
If you then click on the (title of) the follow-up you can
see the message alright, but the previous/next message icons
and previous/next board icons don\'t appear.
If you go to the BulletinBoard and click on the (title of)
the new message, the links are there.
Any ideas?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10475,'Fri Oct 23 16:50:33 1998','Re: SkiForager',20,10330,'
Everybody,
New Java (1.0.2) version of SkiForager, now on the server, so should be visibnle by more people. Still takes time to load though.
Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10476,'Fri Oct 23 17:14:53 1998','Re: Bulletin Boards',2,10474,'
>Will,
[snip]
>If you then click on the (title of) the follow-up you can
>see the message alright, but the previous/next message icons
>and previous/next board icons don\'t appear.
>If you go to the BulletinBoard and click on the (title of)
>the new message, the links are there.
In fact, you don\'t have to create a follow-up. Go to a posting
and then click on a follow-up. Usually the next/previous links
are not there (but sometimes they are :-(
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10477,'Fri Oct 23 17:18:10 1998','Re: Bulletin Boards',4,10474,'
>If you then click on the (title of) the follow-up you can
>see the message alright, but the previous/next message icons
>and previous/next board icons don\'t appear.
>If you go to the BulletinBoard and click on the (title of)
>the new message, the links are there.
Actually this is the way it was designed to work! :)
The previous/next don\'t appear because they always
mean the previous/next message in the list you\'ve just
chosen a message from. In this case it\'s the list of
followups to the original message, and by construction
there is only one, so there is no prev/next.
The previous/next board icons don\'t appear because they
only appear if the list you chose from was a complete
listing from a bulletin board.
However since this seemed to surprise you I\'ve changed
it (Posting.pl, BoardUtil.pm).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10478,'Fri Oct 23 17:21:28 1998','Re: Re: Bulletin Boards',4,10477,'
>The previous/next board icons don\'t appear because they
>only appear if the list you chose from was a complete
>listing from a bulletin board.
>However since this seemed to surprise you I\'ve changed
>it (Posting.pl, BoardUtil.pm).
ie the "current bulletin board" survives down into followup
browsing
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10479,'Fri Oct 23 17:28:28 1998','Re: Bulletin Boards',4,10474,'
Do you fancy growing the TEXTAREA for post/reply
a bit? It\'s a bit narrow on my setup at least.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10480,'Fri Oct 23 17:40:03 1998','Re: Re: Re: Bulletin Boards',4,10478,'
>>The previous/next board icons don\'t appear because they
>>only appear if the list you chose from was a complete
>>listing from a bulletin board.
>>However since this seemed to surprise you I\'ve changed
>>it (Posting.pl, BoardUtil.pm).
>ie the "current bulletin board" survives down into followup
>browsing
and it even works on iglu.com as well now (sorry, was
running out of cgi-bin and uploading to cgi-int---
broke it trying to find out why it wasn\'t working ...)
let me know if the change has messed anything else up!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10481,'Fri Oct 23 18:33:59 1998','Booking form',23,0,'
If I submit a booking request with the \'transport required\'
set to \'none\'
I get rejected on the grounds that \'place of departure\' is invalid
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10482,'Fri Oct 23 18:46:07 1998','Booking',23,0,'
departure date doesnt seem to be showing up in the booking management
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10483,'Fri Oct 23 19:03:50 1998','Booking - without travel ',23,0,'
if I try to process a booking where the customer has requested
no travel arrangements, I assume that meant that I dont have to
fill in all the travel dates and transfer details etc.
But - when I try to submit this I get rejected on teh
grounds that I havent filled in the travel details etc.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10484,'Fri Oct 23 19:09:19 1998','Booking - for idiots',23,0,'
granted I probably shouldnt have put the £ in the price field
but
Error
Query UPDATE Booking SET PropCost = £1200, TravCost = 0.0, TransCost = 0.0, InsCost = 0.0, BookingFee = 0.0, SPassCost = 0.0, SSchCost = 0.0, MiscCost = 0.0, DepPay = 200, BalDue = \'12/12/1998\', BookRespComment = \'\', BookIGLUComment = \'this guys a yoyo\' WHERE id=101:[-3100] [886] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in query expression \'£1200\'."
???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10485,'Fri Oct 23 19:16:42 1998','booking - email alert',23,0,'
when I recieve my booking alert It appears thus:
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-int/ski/our_details.pl?subject=booking&id=101
but the \'&ID=101\' at the end is not underlined - ie not part of the active link
consequently when I click through I get
Error
No (booking) id form parameter
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10486,'Fri Oct 23 19:27:31 1998','booking response',23,0,'
If somebody has requested a booking without some or all of the
transport options, maybe we could grey out the non relevent
confirm check boxes in the booking response form -
to avoid perplexion??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10487,'Fri Oct 23 19:29:41 1998','Login Problems',2,0,'
If I search for a chalet, go to "more details" for a
particular chalet and then click on "Book chaletname now"
I get challenged for my group login.
Similarly, from the booking form, if I click on your
shortlist I get challenged again.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10488,'Fri Oct 23 21:06:38 1998','Re: Login Problems',4,10487,'
>If I search for a chalet, go to "more details" for a
>particular chalet and then click on "Book chaletname now"
>I get challenged for my group login.
>Similarly, from the booking form, if I click on your
>shortlist I get challenged again.
I see three possible reasons for this:
1) as I mentioned I have changed
cgi-bin/Login.pm to use the group login in the
cookie rather than id number---but not cgi-int/Login.pm.
If you are (explicitly or implicitly) using both,
you will find it challenges every time it tries to
look up one by the other and consequently fails.
2) this happens to me intermittently if I start
with 194.109.98.18 rather than iglu.com (cookies
will only match literally not on the translated
address); if you jump from a page (e.g. an outer
frame) which was loaded as 194.109.98.18 to one
called as iglu.com it won\'t send it
3) Tim says it sends cookies back to particular
directories---are we ever trying to use a cookie
set in one directory in a script from another?
4) I\'m not sure the "back" button on netscape
interacts correctly with cookies
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10489,'Fri Oct 23 21:09:37 1998','Re: Re: Login Problems',4,10488,'
>1) as I mentioned I have changed
>cgi-bin/Login.pm to use the group login in the
>cookie rather than id number---but not cgi-int/Login.pm.
>If you are (explicitly or implicitly) using both,
>you will find it challenges every time it tries to
>look up one by the other and consequently fails.
that\'s false, sorry, disregard it
both were changed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10490,'Fri Oct 23 21:27:25 1998','Re: Re: Re: Login Problems',4,10489,'
>that\'s false, sorry, disregard it
>both were changed
oops, right the first time, it was true
but I can\'t reproduce the problem---
can you be more specific about where you are going/
coming?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10491,'Sat Oct 24 0:27:35 1998','secondary navigation links',23,0,'
A tiny point, but its late on friday and it caught my eye.
Im not sure that having a different vlink colour on these
links (on the details pages) makes a lot of sense, as these should be links you
are using again and again.
???
However, what might be nice is if the defualt colour for
all these links is something other than black - to
differentiate them from the rest of the text on the page.
???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10492,'Sat Oct 24 22:45:26 1998','adding fields',1,0,'
Will,
I would like to add a new bookean field (selectdisplay) to the db (table=datadictionary). You said you could do this using POSQL. Can you let me know how?
Also the customer record appears to have 2 "Subscribed to Newsletter" pages
Cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10493,'Sun Oct 25 0:24:29 1998','Re: adding fields',4,10492,'
>Will,
>I would like to add a new bookean field (selectdisplay) to the db (table=datadictionary). You said you could do this using POSQL. Can you let me know how?
that would be something like
ALTER TABLE customer ADD COLUMN selectdisplay LOGICAL
(NB not BOOLEAN, cheers Mr G!)
>Also the customer record appears to have 2 "Subscribed to Newsletter" pages
OK, I have deleted the one I invented (newsletter_subscribed)
but if you have copies of the newsletters scripts you
will have the change references to newsletter_subscribed
to newsletter!
Sorry for not looking to see if one was there already ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10494,'Sun Oct 25 1:03:12 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: SkiForager',23,10454,'
>>>Ben,
>>>Is the text on the Iforager.html page correct? If so, I\'ll make it a bit prettier
>>havent quite finalised this yet - give it a couple of days.
>thursday + 2 days = saturday.
>any chance?
couple of days +- couple of hours
The alternative ski property search
1.To include one of the categories in your search click the On/Off button next to that category.
2.Click and drag the skier to move towards the quality you require.
3.The two ends of the bar are the extremes for that category, i.e. the far left of the first bar will find the least expensive accomodation, and the far right the most expensive.
4.When you have included all the categories you require, click the Submit button to execute your search.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10495,'Sun Oct 25 1:08:01 1998','snow tips nav label',23,0,'
the label that reads \'snow sports reports\'
should read \'snow sport tips\'
this was the wording in the original list
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10496,'Sun Oct 25 22:40:04 1998','Re: Java Applets - Splitting Pics',1,10432,'
>Hi,
>In order to spead up SkiForager, download time, I intend (after advice from TimJ), to download all the pictures in one Image, and then split it up, into the separate images.
>I had found how to do it, in JDK 1.1.7, but as IGLU want maximum exposure, I have to write in JDK 1.0.2, in order to work on the version 3 browsers.
>I have found this Java method in 1.0.2,
>public abstract boolean
>drawImage(Image img, int x, int y, int width, int height, ImageObserver observer)
umm, have you had a look at CropImageFilter?
Sorry I can\'t be of more help. Java very rusty.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10497,'Sun Oct 25 23:05:19 1998','FIXED: newsletters, please have a go at them',1,10415,'
>Couple of things I meant to mention:
>I haven\'t used the newsletter.issue field, but just
>the id. They are both essentially autoincrements and
>I didn\'t see any substantial reason to have both.
>So newsletter.issue can go if that\'s OK.
I think the issue is important. eg issue number 5.1 ?
>Tim: can we add a "MonthYYYY" fieldtype to the data
>dictionary to go with Date and DateTime? It seems
>a natural place to tell the system that the newsletter
>issue date should print as Month YYYY---along the lines
>Chippy is urging on us to refine the type definitions
>and even include some validation info.
we don\'t know how often newsletters will be published, (probably ad-hoc rather than monthly). I have redone the newsletter admin side completely, hope you don\'t mind.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10498,'Sun Oct 25 23:09:58 1998','Re: Graphics needed',1,10441,'
Krugs, can you sort out the below for chippy (mylesc@i-way.co.uk).
Also, you missed the weather report header graphic from the last lot, and can you do me a couple:
1) "Back" (Blue & grey triangle to the left)
2) "Subscribe" (Blue & grey triangle to the right)
Cheers
Tim
>Dear Kruger,
>Could you create the following icons:
>1) "Pay Deposit" - (Blue & grey triangle to the right)
>booking confirmation
>2) "Pay Balance" - (Blue & grey triangle to the right)
>Travel Pack
>3) "All Boards" or "List Boards" or "View Boards"
>(blue "square") - Bulletin Board Search
>6) "All Articles" (blue "square") - Posting
>7) "Reply to posting" or "Reply"
>(Blue & grey triangle to the right) - Posting
>8) "Post message" or "Post"
>(Blue & grey triangle to the right) - Posting Post & Bulletin Board
>And we also need a "Bulletin Boards" header graphic
>called bulletinboards_head.gif which I understand you are
>already making.
>Thanks,
>Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10499,'Sun Oct 25 23:11:21 1998','FIXED',1,10460,'
>I\'m taking the search scripts back from Tim at his request
>so I\'m going to fix this now ... watch this space
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10500,'Sun Oct 25 23:16:39 1998','FIXED',1,10462,'
>I once (!) put a diagnostic in IgluSearch.pm to print
>the inferred directory of the script to STDERR.
>I keep taking them out but they keep coming back
>in all those little .pms.
>Since this will definitely generate log entries which
>i-way will interpret as errors/warnings, can we make
>sure that our local copies don\'t have them in?
ooops,
I\'ve fixed all in cgi-int.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10501,'Sun Oct 25 23:17:27 1998','FIXED',1,10465,'
>I once (!) put a diagnostic in IgluSearch.pm to print
>the inferred directory of the script to STDERR.
>I keep taking them out but they keep coming back
>in all those little .pms.
>Since this will definitely generate log entries which
>i-way will interpret as errors/warnings, can we make
>sure that our local copies don\'t have them in?
oops,
fixed in cgi-int
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10502,'Sun Oct 25 23:21:23 1998','Re: booking - email alert',1,10485,'
>when I recieve my booking alert It appears thus:
>http://www.iglu.com/cgi-int/ski/our_details.pl?subject=booking&id=101
>but the \'&ID=101\' at the end is not underlined - ie not part of the active link
this is the fault of your email client, we are doing nothing to underline the link, rather your client is parsing it and doing it automatically (and wrongly). What are you using?
>consequently when I click through I get
>Error
>No (booking) id form parameter
Umm, not sure if we can give more sensible messages for incorrect urls. Perhaps we could give instructions on how to get there from http://www.iglu.com/?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10503,'Sun Oct 25 23:25:20 1998','Re: secondary navigation links',1,10491,'
>A tiny point, but its late on friday and it caught my eye.
>Im not sure that having a different vlink colour on these
> links (on the details pages) makes a lot of sense, as these should be links you
>are using again and again.
i dislike different vlink overall anyway. comments?.
I think we could do away with it entirely?
>???
>However, what might be nice is if the defualt colour for
> all these links is something other than black - to
>differentiate them from the rest of the text on the page.
>???
the color is dark blue, as are all links:
link="#142a66"
is this ok?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10504,'Sun Oct 25 23:28:57 1998','Re: snow tips nav label',1,10495,'
>
>the label that reads \'snow sports reports\'
>should read \'snow sport tips\'
>this was the wording in the original list
oops, sorry.
the deadline has been missed on this, so i was about to remove it from the menu anyway. this OK?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10505,'Mon Oct 26 1:09:46 1998','Re: Re: snow tips nav label',23,10504,'
>>
>>the label that reads \'snow sports reports\'
>>should read \'snow sport tips\'
>>this was the wording in the original list
>oops, sorry.
>the deadline has been missed on this, so i was about to remove it from the menu anyway. this OK?
Emmanuelle has arranged to use somebody elses content
for both this and the weather section - so we can just link directly through
and load it into the frameset. How does this sound?
We will have the links on monday.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10506,'Mon Oct 26 1:18:03 1998','\'Other Product\' content',23,0,'
OTHER PRODUCTS
Further to property, travel and insurance, Iglu.com offers you more :
SKI PASS
Avoid the queue at the ski lift cashier!
Book your ski pass in advance with Iglu.com:
have it delivered to your hotel or apartment reception
and get discounted ski passes!
This offer is available for selected properties only which will be identified by "BOOK YOUR SKI PASS NOW" in their description.
It is easy to book: once you have filled in your booking request, you will be returned a booking quotation including the option to book ski passes, just specify how many and which ski passes you want.
On arrival you will need an ID picture for each person (for ski pass greater than 2 days) and for concessions proof of age. Your ski pass will be processed overnight and be ready for collection next morning at your property reception.
All the information about ski pass is available in the resort detail page, or in the ski domain page for extended ski area (Les 3 Vallées, for example).
SKI SCHOOL
When you book your property with Iglu, you may benefit some special deal at your arrival in the following resorts:
In France:
The ESF (Ecole de Ski Français) is the national ski school with qualified instructors.
In the main resorts, other ski schools provide also lessons and other activities.
- Alpe d\'Huez: with ESF 5% discount on 6 days group lessons, 5% discount on nursery "Les Eterlous" with a 6 days ski pass.
- Les Arcs: exclusive to "Le Ruitor" and "Résidence Charmettoger",
- Discount on ESF group lessons ski and surf,
- Special offer for beginner instructions: 3 hours per day for 6 days, including ski equipment rental = 990FFr per person
- Snow shoes trekking: half-day (3 hours) with equipment = 120FFr per person
- Avoriaz: discount with ESF on group lessons adult and children for 6 days or 6 half-days.
- Chamonix: exclusive to "Chamois Blanc" discount with ESF for family.
- Megève: exclusive to "les Balcons du Hameaux", discount with ESF, Ski Evolution Internationale, nursery "La Caboche" and "Bureau des Guides et Accompagnateurs de Megève".
- Tignes: discount with Evolution 2 on group lessons and on adventure pack (snowbike, dog sledding, …)
- Val d\'Isère: discount with ESF on group lessons adult and children for 6 days or 6 half-days.
EQUIPMENT RENTAL
With some of our hotels and apartments/condo in France, you will receive a deduction of 100FFr per adult and 50FFr per child (under 12 years) on a full ski equipment rented (ski, boots, poles) for at least 6 days in selected ski shops.
SKI PASS
This facility is currently available from 6 days ski pass in the following resorts (and for some properties only), but we aim to broaden our offer:
In France:
- Alpe d\'Huez: 6 days VISALP ski pass includes also free entry to the swimming pool, skating rink, tennis, squash, fitness, climbing wall, concerts, and free shuttle.
- Les 2 Alpes
- Les Arcs
- Avoriaz
- Chamonix
- Les Menuires
- Méribel
- La Plagne
- Tignes
- Val d\'Isère
- Val Thorens
- Vars: from 2 days adult ski pass (except between 25/12/1998 and 01/01/1999 and between 06/02/1999 and 05/03/1999)
In Andorra:
- Pas de la Casa
In Spain:
- Boí Taüll
- La Molina
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10507,'Mon Oct 26 1:20:59 1998','Re: Re: secondary navigation links',23,10503,'
>the color is dark blue, as are all links:
>link="#142a66"
>is this ok?
it just looks black on my machine
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10508,'Mon Oct 26 1:23:50 1998','Re: Re: booking - email alert',23,10502,'
>this is the fault of your email client, we are doing nothing to underline the link, rather your client is parsing it and doing it automatically (and wrongly). What are you using?
Netscape communicator
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10509,'Mon Oct 26 1:52:50 1998','Re: FIXED: newsletters, please have a go at them',4,10497,'
>I think the issue is important. eg issue number 5.1 ?
It\'s fine in Orem, Utah. Why would anyone else ever want
fractional issue numbers? I\'m with Oyster on this one:
the issue number is auto-fill not manual and it\'s just a
unique identifier which is there to make the thing look
organized.
>we don\'t know how often newsletters will be published, (probably ad-hoc rather than monthly).
Fair play, was just how Oyster had it portrayed ...
> I have redone the newsletter admin side completely, hope you don\'t mind.
It rocks and it sucks in about equal measure. I prefer Oyster\'s single-page
story entry (though yours is more flexible) and I\'m not sure the ability to
change stories retrospectively is a big win.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10510,'Mon Oct 26 9:07:43 1998','FIXED',1,10506,'
John, I\'ve done this, no?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10511,'Mon Oct 26 9:18:12 1998','Re: Re: Re: secondary navigation links',1,10507,'
>>the color is dark blue, as are all links:
>>link="#142a66"
>>is this ok?
>it just looks black on my machine
turn up the brightness. It is the same color as the blue of the property name and description, (as opposed to the black of \'accomodation type\') on the property details page.
my monitor is crap, and I can see it fine.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10512,'Mon Oct 26 9:19:50 1998','Re: Re: Re: booking - email alert',1,10508,'
>
>>this is the fault of your email client, we are doing nothing to underline the link, rather your client is parsing it and doing it automatically (and wrongly). What are you using?
>
>Netscape communicator
fine, anyone else having this problem? what would you like us to do?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10513,'Mon Oct 26 10:13:29 1998','FIXED',1,10451,'
>I have changed the cookie (in cgi-bin) to be your group
>login rather than its id number, since that seemed
>(cosmetically) less obviously insecure.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10514,'Mon Oct 26 10:40:48 1998','weather link',23,0,'
WEATHER REPORT
http://www.skiin.com/static/snow/index.en.html
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10515,'Mon Oct 26 10:44:23 1998','bulletin boards',1,0,'
I have made some small changes.
APR / Iglu: The boards are ready to be tested (apart from some of the graphics).
One problem:
on a message page, I am only getting followups for the next level down, and not the \'followups to followups\' is this deliberate?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10516,'Mon Oct 26 10:50:06 1998','snow tips links',23,0,'
SNOW SPORTS TIPS
we will need a page with these links labelled :
SKI FITNESS
Getting fit to
ski: http://complete-skier.com/skier/ch2/index.htm
SKI INSTRUCTIONS
The basics: http://complete-skier.com/skier/ch9/index.htm
Intermediate skiing: http://complete-skier.com/skier/ch10/index.htm
Fall-line mogul skiing: http://complete-skier.com/skier/ch15/index.htm
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10517,'Mon Oct 26 11:04:41 1998','ACTION KRUGER: \'snow sport tips\'',1,0,'
Krugs,
the button \'snow sport reports\' should read \'snow sport tips\'
cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10518,'Mon Oct 26 11:20:07 1998','Re: bulletin boards',4,10515,'
>on a message page, I am only getting followups for the next level down, and not the \'followups to followups\' is this deliberate?
It is but it\'s obviously not the right thing!
I\'ll change it ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10519,'Mon Oct 26 12:09:49 1998','FIXED',1,10514,'
>
>WEATHER REPORT
>http://www.skiin.com/static/snow/index.en.html
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10520,'Mon Oct 26 12:14:19 1998','Re: Re: Bulletin Boards',2,10479,'
>Do you fancy growing the TEXTAREA for post/reply
>a bit? It\'s a bit narrow on my setup at least.
The problem is that if it is any bigger it is wider
than the page...! The "cols" is 30, but Netscape seems
to get very random when the textarea is surrounded by
a font tag. The same HTML rendered by the same browser
(Netscape 4.0) on the same platform (win 95) does
different things on my computer to Timp\'s. High kwality :-(
Should we ignore Tim\'s machine and make it wider?
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10521,'Mon Oct 26 12:28:52 1998','FIXED',2,10481,'
>If I submit a booking request with the \'transport required\'
>set to \'none\'
>I get rejected on the grounds that \'place of departure\' is invalid
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10522,'Mon Oct 26 12:29:21 1998','FIXED',2,10482,'
>departure date doesnt seem to be showing up in the booking management
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10523,'Mon Oct 26 12:29:51 1998','FIXED',2,10483,'
>if I try to process a booking where the customer has requested
>no travel arrangements, I assume that meant that I dont have to
>fill in all the travel dates and transfer details etc.
>But - when I try to submit this I get rejected on teh
>grounds that I havent filled in the travel details etc.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10524,'Mon Oct 26 12:30:15 1998','FIXED',1,10516,'
>
>SNOW SPORTS TIPS
>we will need a page with these links labelled :
>
>SKI FITNESS
>Getting fit to
>ski: http://complete-skier.com/skier/ch2/index.htm
>SKI INSTRUCTIONS
>The basics: http://complete-skier.com/skier/ch9/index.htm
>Intermediate skiing: http://complete-skier.com/skier/ch10/index.htm
>Fall-line mogul skiing: http://complete-skier.com/skier/ch15/index.htm
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10525,'Mon Oct 26 12:31:24 1998','FIXED',1,10323,'
>Delivery agreed for wed 21st Oct
>>John,
>>have you finialised plans for the weather pages?
>>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10526,'Mon Oct 26 12:33:31 1998','FIXED',2,10484,'
>granted I probably shouldnt have put the £ in the price field
>but
>Error
>Query UPDATE Booking SET PropCost = £1200, TravCost = 0.0, TransCost = 0.0, InsCost = 0.0, BookingFee = 0.0, SPassCost = 0.0, SSchCost = 0.0, MiscCost = 0.0, DepPay = 200, BalDue = \'12/12/1998\', BookRespComment = \'\', BookIGLUComment = \'this guys a yoyo\' WHERE id=101:[-3100] [886] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in query expression \'£1200\'."
>???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10527,'Mon Oct 26 12:35:35 1998','property detail pictures',23,0,'
the picture from the \'Photo Dining Room \' field in the property table
doesnt seem to be showing up in the page
eg
La Solana (A), Boi Taull, Spain
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10528,'Mon Oct 26 12:41:32 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Login Problems',2,10490,'
>>that\'s false, sorry, disregard it
>>both were changed
>oops, right the first time, it was true
>but I can\'t reproduce the problem---
>can you be more specific about where you are going/
>coming?
1) Go to the site (www.iglu.com)
2) Click "Your booking" and log on. you see the booking form
3) Click "Your Shortlist"
4) Click "Chalet shortlist"
you will be asked to log on.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10529,'Mon Oct 26 12:47:05 1998','FIXED',2,10502,'
>>when I recieve my booking alert It appears thus:
>>http://www.iglu.com/cgi-int/ski/our_details.pl?subject=booking&id=101
>>but the \'&ID=101\' at the end is not underlined - ie not part of the active link
>this is the fault of your email client, we are doing nothing to underline the link, rather your client is parsing it and doing it automatically (and wrongly). What are you using?
>>consequently when I click through I get
>>Error
>>No (booking) id form parameter
>Umm, not sure if we can give more sensible messages for incorrect urls. Perhaps we could give instructions on how to get there from http://www.iglu.com/?
If there is no id parameter set then the script calls BookingGoto which
gets you to log in (giving us the missing parameter).
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10530,'Mon Oct 26 12:47:37 1998','FIXED',2,10512,'
>>
>>>this is the fault of your email client, we are doing nothing to underline the link, rather your client is parsing it and doing it automatically (and wrongly). What are you using?
>>
>>Netscape communicator
>fine, anyone else having this problem? what would you like us to do?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10531,'Mon Oct 26 13:02:08 1998','Re: booking response',2,10486,'
>If somebody has requested a booking without some or all of the
>transport options, maybe we could grey out the non relevent
>confirm check boxes in the booking response form -
>to avoid perplexion??
John,
I agree that we need something like this, although our
only real option is to not have the confirmation box
(and the rest of the transport details) because you
cannot reliably (i.e. for Netscape) grey-out check boxes
in HTML.
I suggest:
1) We do not display any transport information if no-one
asked for transport
2) We do not display any transfer information if no-one
asked for a transfer
Note that at the minute this will cause problems with
the Booking Offer form since you have to fill in ALL
fields!
Also, I still do not know how to handle the ski passes.
Could you please spell out to a confused developer exactly
what we should do?
Please let me know what you think.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10532,'Mon Oct 26 13:34:33 1998','FIXED',1,10527,'
>
>the picture from the \'Photo Dining Room \' field in the property table
>doesnt seem to be showing up in the page
>eg
>La Solana (A), Boi Taull, Spain
this is a new field (i think). anyway fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10533,'Mon Oct 26 13:38:03 1998','FIXED',1,10493,'
>>Will,
>>I would like to add a new bookean field (selectdisplay) to the db (table=datadictionary). You said you could do this using POSQL. Can you let me know how?
>that would be something like
>ALTER TABLE customer ADD COLUMN selectdisplay LOGICAL
>(NB not BOOLEAN, cheers Mr G!)
>>Also the customer record appears to have 2 "Subscribed to Newsletter" pages
>OK, I have deleted the one I invented (newsletter_subscribed)
>but if you have copies of the newsletters scripts you
>will have the change references to newsletter_subscribed
>to newsletter!
>Sorry for not looking to see if one was there already ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10534,'Mon Oct 26 13:39:03 1998','FIXED',1,10440,'
>Emaneul has just told me that the link for this won\'t be avaliable until the middle of november.
>We can write some words to this effect, or (better) remove the weather button from the navigation.
>Comments?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10535,'Mon Oct 26 13:39:55 1998','FIXED',1,10450,'
>>>No, very soon we will stop using cgi-bin altogether. It\'s just not worth it at this stage.
>>MHLS
>?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10536,'Mon Oct 26 13:57:27 1998','FIXED',1,10366,'
>Netscape appears to be corrupting it\'s form params between windows. I just got:
>The requested URL /paneris/cgi-bin/$_scripts/search/ResortSearchResults.pl was not found on this server.
>when posting a messaage on paneris!!
>I don\'t think that this is a bug we can be expected to tackle, although we should perhaps pop in to mozilla.org, get the source and fix it. :)
>John, please can you check that you don\'t have problems when only running 1 netscape window.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10537,'Mon Oct 26 14:18:04 1998','FIXED',1,10511,'
>>>the color is dark blue, as are all links:
>>>link="#142a66"
>>>is this ok?
>>it just looks black on my machine
>turn up the brightness. It is the same color as the blue of the property name and description, (as opposed to the black of \'accomodation type\') on the property details page.
>my monitor is crap, and I can see it fine.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10538,'Mon Oct 26 14:19:43 1998','FIXED',1,10435,'
>>how does this look?
>>
>> Property search results
>> Book Alaska now
>> Add Alaska to shortlist
>>
>> Property shortlist
>> Resort shortlist
>>
>> Resort Courchevel
>> Domain Les Trois Vallées
>>
>> Customer comments
>done
>>
>>also
>>maybe we could have a subtle colour difference on the text
>>for the different blocks ie
>> Book Alaska now
>> Add Alaska to shortlist
>>would be the same colour, but slghtly different to the others ??? -- just a thought
>don\'t really like it. Ayway, all links on a page need to be the same color (link).
>>also
>>could we have a different colour on the - just for that old time posative feedback feeling??
>Krugs, can you come up with a good alink color
>Cheers
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10539,'Mon Oct 26 14:54:38 1998','Re: Re: booking response',23,10531,'
>1) We do not display any transport information if no-one
>asked for transport
>2) We do not display any transfer information if no-one
>asked for a transfer
this would probably be the ideal solution - how much agro would it cause given...
>Note that at the minute this will cause problems with
>the Booking Offer form since you have to fill in ALL
>fields!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10540,'Mon Oct 26 15:14:58 1998','Newsletter Admin',20,0,'
Admin, newsletter, couple of points,
i) When adding a story, with the Newsletter title in the list box, the same title doesn\'t come up, the first title comes up.
ii) It didn\'t let me insert this as a story...
Shattering Strike!!!
||
||
\/
__
/ \
| | <--- Earth!!! ( If you believe
| | it, you\'ll
\__/ believe
anything.)
Shattering huh!!!
You tell me, anything wrong with the chars used as ASCII graphics??
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10541,'Mon Oct 26 15:17:31 1998','Re: Re: booking response',23,10531,'
>1) We do not display any transport information if no-one
>asked for transport
>2) We do not display any transfer information if no-one
>asked for a transfer
this would probably be the ideal solution - how much agro would it cause given...
>Note that at the minute this will cause problems with
>the Booking Offer form since you have to fill in ALL
>fields!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10542,'Mon Oct 26 15:29:02 1998','Call Management - Admin',20,0,'
When you go to call management in the admin section, and click on \'View\' it takes you back to administrator login..
ben j
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10543,'Mon Oct 26 16:09:56 1998','Booking',20,0,'
When booking is complete, there is no back button, so you can go back to the main page.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10544,'Mon Oct 26 16:17:30 1998','FIXED',1,10494,'
>>>>Ben,
>>>>Is the text on the Iforager.html page correct? If so, I\'ll make it a bit prettier
>>>havent quite finalised this yet - give it a couple of days.
>>thursday + 2 days = saturday.
>>any chance?
>
>couple of days +- couple of hours
>
>The alternative ski property search
>1.To include one of the categories in your search click the On/Off button next to that category.
>2.Click and drag the skier to move towards the quality you require.
>3.The two ends of the bar are the extremes for that category, i.e. the far left of the first bar will find the least expensive accomodation, and the far right the most expensive.
>4.When you have included all the categories you require, click the Submit button to execute your search.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10545,'Mon Oct 26 16:48:43 1998','Re: Newsletter Admin - Ideas needed',1,10540,'
>Admin, newsletter, couple of points,
>i) When adding a story, with the Newsletter title in the list box, the same title doesn\'t come up, the first title comes up.
this never worked, but seems like a good idea, so now does.
>ii) It didn\'t let me insert this as a story...
>Shattering Strike!!!
> ||
> ||
> \/
> __
> / \
>| | <--- Earth!!! ( If you believe
>| | it, you\'ll
> \__/ believe
> anything.)
>Shattering huh!!!
>
>You tell me, anything wrong with the chars used as ASCII graphics??
Not for me, but access gives:
Invalid use of vertical bars in query expression.
It doesn\'t like pipes (or rather quaintly "vertical bars" :)
You got any ideas of how to escape these. Is this really a problem (obviously apart from those great ASCII artists amoungst us)?
>
>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10546,'Mon Oct 26 17:21:05 1998','Ski Forager 1.0.2',20,0,'
Ski Forager, is now up and has picture splitting implemented, hopefully decreasing load time.
Take a look and see...
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10547,'Mon Oct 26 18:31:01 1998','Re: Re: booking response',23,10531,'
>Also, I still do not know how to handle the ski passes.
>Could you please spell out to a confused developer exactly
>what we should do?
after hours of fierce negotiation we have agreed the simplest possible solution
In the booking request form we will ask anyone who wants a skipass
to say so in the comments box. All the processing will then be done manually by iglu.
So
Can we include some text on the request form to this effect:
"If you wish to book a ski pass in advance please state in the box below:
1. the skiers name
2. the number of days you wish the pass to cover (6 or 7)
3. the start date for your ski pass
(note: advanced ski pass booking is available for certain properties only.)"
how does this sound?
(maybe we could include a separate text box for this information - its up to you)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10548,'Mon Oct 26 18:57:52 1998','insurance',23,0,'
In the booking request form we need to also include an insurance request
the simplest form of this is a drop down containing the cover types
(as in the new booking admin page, but with a \'none\' option).
We need one of these for every party member on teh booking request.
This info then needs to appear in the new booking page so iglu can do the
calculations.
Also
for legal reasons, and so iglu have their ass covered, there has to be a
check box for poeple who arent taking the iglu insurance, to state that they have
insurance from somewhere else.
if the user chooses no iglu insurance and fails to tick this box, then their
booking request is rejected.
how does this sound?
There is some precise legal wording to go along with this, but I dont have it yet.
When I do - youll know about it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10549,'Mon Oct 26 19:06:53 1998','new booking departure dates',23,0,'
departure dates are still not showing up in the new booking admin page
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10550,'Mon Oct 26 19:33:02 1998','booking rejection',23,0,'
can we word the booking rejection header a little friendlier
I dont know how
maybe just lose the header altogether and say
there were some problems with your booking request. Please go back and check tehfollowing details.
???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10551,'Mon Oct 26 19:48:21 1998','price search',23,0,'
Im sorry to dredge this up again, but there are still some problems with the
price search.
If you do a sequence of price searches for all the price ranges available, then
you only get back a dozen or so properties in total - and there are now 100+
properties with prices in the database.
could we have a look at this again.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10552,'Mon Oct 26 19:54:09 1998','property search',23,0,'
a search on any property in resort La Massana, Andorra brings back 6 results,
but there are 7 properties in the database
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10553,'Mon Oct 26 19:58:07 1998','booking request price range ',23,0,'
Just for my own piece of mind..
in the booking request form - where does the price range in the property short list come from?
and if its a meaningful price, cant we use it in the search results?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10554,'Mon Oct 26 20:00:52 1998','booking request booking dates',23,0,'
Is there a simple way of forcing somebody to set the booking dates
like maybe defaulting to blank values?
The danger is they will both be left as they are - 1/1/98
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10555,'Mon Oct 26 20:03:29 1998','nav function order',23,0,'
sorry about this - but can we change the order of the nav buttons to
property search
resort search
ski forager
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10556,'Mon Oct 26 20:08:29 1998','Miscelaneous Property Features',23,0,'
we need to change the Miscelaneous Property Features field in the property table
from text to memo.
Ben will do this tomorrow when he performs his other occult practices
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10557,'Mon Oct 26 20:12:50 1998','your shortlist',23,0,'
In \'your shortlist\' can we change \'chalet\' to \'property\'
(and anywhere else where the dreaded chalet appears)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10558,'Mon Oct 26 20:14:46 1998','forward shortlist',23,0,'
how do you send the shortlist to multiple recipients? Can there be an explanation?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10559,'Mon Oct 26 20:18:12 1998','search results layout',23,0,'
there does seem to be a sizable wad of space on the search results page
just below view short list icon and above the first property name
Any chance of shrinking it a bit??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10560,'Mon Oct 26 20:19:20 1998','Re: price search',4,10551,'
>Im sorry to dredge this up again, but there are still some problems with the
>price search.
>If you do a sequence of price searches for all the price ranges available, then
>you only get back a dozen or so properties in total - and there are now 100+
>properties with prices in the database.
>could we have a look at this again.
set your arrival date to, for instance, 28 January 1999
there are very few pricings in the db that cover October 98
Note to John---keep these coming, I\'m not SO confident that it works
right that I don\'t feel the need to try it out whenever you raise
a question ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10561,'Mon Oct 26 20:22:26 1998','search criteria labels',23,0,'
is there anything to be gained - clarity wise - from shrinking the
search criteria labels down a point or two - and maybe even justifying
them to the right so they but up agin the boxes???? ??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10562,'Mon Oct 26 20:22:48 1998','Re: property search',4,10552,'
>a search on any property in resort La Massana, Andorra brings back 6 results,
> but there are 7 properties in the database
it gives me 7
however it also says "1-5 of at least 50", when in fact there
are clearly only 7 results :)
(the second page says 6-7 of at least 50!)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10563,'Mon Oct 26 20:24:18 1998','Re: forward shortlist',4,10558,'
>how do you send the shortlist to multiple recipients? Can there be an explanation?
you simply put several addresses in, separated I believe by whitespace
or commata
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10564,'Mon Oct 26 20:24:51 1998','Re: search criteria labels',4,10561,'
>is there anything to be gained - clarity wise - from shrinking the
>search criteria labels down a point or two - and maybe even justifying
>them to the right so they but up agin the boxes???? ??
seconded
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10565,'Mon Oct 26 20:32:25 1998','property details',23,0,'
I think the phone might need a check box - just for consistancy
also
Miscellaneous is spelt rong
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10566,'Mon Oct 26 20:35:38 1998','booking accepted',23,0,'
on the booking accepted page can we have
\'We expect to be able to confirm the availability of your requested property within 24 hours\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10567,'Mon Oct 26 20:39:33 1998','Re: Re: price search',1,10560,'
>>Im sorry to dredge this up again, but there are still some problems with the
>>price search.
>>If you do a sequence of price searches for all the price ranges available, then
>>you only get back a dozen or so properties in total - and there are now 100+
>>properties with prices in the database.
>>could we have a look at this again.
>set your arrival date to, for instance, 28 January 1999
>there are very few pricings in the db that cover October 98
>Note to John---keep these coming, I\'m not SO confident that it works
>right that I don\'t feel the need to try it out whenever you raise
>a question ...
I am soo confident that it works tooo, but I also tried it for 26/12/1998 and £201 - £500, and got "more than 50" results.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10568,'Mon Oct 26 20:40:56 1998','property search results',23,0,'
what about enboldening the font for
Booking Period
Accommodation type
Catering type
Price
No of people
to emphasise the most pertinent selection criteria
????
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10569,'Mon Oct 26 20:49:31 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Login Problems',4,10528,'
>1) Go to the site (www.iglu.com)
>2) Click "Your booking" and log on. you see the booking form
>3) Click "Your Shortlist"
>4) Click "Chalet shortlist"
>you will be asked to log on.
Rightyho, I\'ve twigged what the problem is:
BookingGoto.pl doesn\'t set the cookie.
The obvious solution would be to stuff BookingGoto.pl
and put the Login::ensure directly into booking_form.pl.
(See any of the search/*Shortlist* scripts for an
example, or BookingGoto.pl itself.)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10570,'Mon Oct 26 20:52:26 1998','broken',4,10518,'
>>on a message page, I am only getting followups for the next level down, and not the \'followups to followups\' is this deliberate?
>It is but it\'s obviously not the right thing!
>I\'ll change it ...
completely broken for now because Abcess doesn\'t support SQL placeholders
in the normal way, am investigating
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10571,'Mon Oct 26 21:04:49 1998','Re: Re: property search',1,10562,'
>>a search on any property in resort La Massana, Andorra brings back 6 results,
>> but there are 7 properties in the database
>it gives me 7
>however it also says "1-5 of at least 50", when in fact there
>are clearly only 7 results :)
>(the second page says 6-7 of at least 50!)
I am not getting this!! Proxy?
Anyway, to clear up the 7th result:
Anyos Park (1-2p) is booked for 02/11/1998 - 19/04/1998, which doesn\'t leave 7 clear days from 26/10/1998 (i assume you are using default date) to allow a booking to be made.
There is an assumption here that a booking requries 7 clear days. Is this correct?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10572,'Mon Oct 26 21:10:58 1998','Re: Re: Re: property search',4,10571,'
>>it gives me 7
>>however it also says "1-5 of at least 50", when in fact there
>>are clearly only 7 results :)
>>(the second page says 6-7 of at least 50!)
>I am not getting this!! Proxy?
actually I\'m in the department for once (the site is impressively
fast over 100Mbps ethernet!)
>There is an assumption here that a booking requries 7 clear days. Is this correct?
hard to see what else we can do
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10573,'Mon Oct 26 21:13:54 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: property search',4,10572,'
OK, well I\'m getting my 7 results if I set the date to 2001
and I am not seeing the erroneous "50 or more"
GOD knows what can possibly have caused that ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10574,'Mon Oct 26 21:17:29 1998','Re: Ski Forager 1.0.2',4,10546,'
>Ski Forager, is now up and has picture splitting implemented, hopefully decreasing load time.
>Take a look and see...
It\'s fab :) :) :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10575,'Mon Oct 26 21:54:13 1998','Re: Re: search criteria labels',1,10564,'
>>is there anything to be gained - clarity wise - from shrinking the
>>search criteria labels down a point or two - and maybe even justifying
>>them to the right so they but up agin the boxes???? ??
>seconded
soorry, they are already size="2", and 1 is difficult to read for most people. We could loose the bold. comments?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10576,'Mon Oct 26 22:03:38 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: property search',1,10573,'
>OK, well I\'m getting my 7 results if I set the date to 2001
>and I am not seeing the erroneous "50 or more"
>GOD knows what can possibly have caused that ...
If you are accusing me of doing a sneaky update to hide a bug that i introduced and you pointed out. then...
I plead NOT GUILTY in the strongest terms, and suggest \'mlord, that it is late and the prosecution should perhaps have a little nap in order to refresh their clearly fading eyesight.
Obviously after checking the timestamp on chaletsearchresults.pl
:)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10577,'Mon Oct 26 22:47:17 1998','bargains; getting a more modern Perl ODBC module',4,0,'
The bargains stuff, in case anyone is wondering what has happened to it,
works on my machine but totally fails on iglu.com because the particular
Perl-ODBC driver we are using does not support placeholders (`bind
variables\'). Jet does, Access does, ODBC does, DBI does, DBD::ODBC does,
DBI::W32ODBC doesn\'t.
It seems that W32ODBC was superseded by DBD::ODBC some time around
4Q97. It also seems that the most recent `ActiveState\' Perl, which
we presumably now have, complies with the standard Perl module-loading
system: to quote from their home page,
| Remember the days of "which port are you using" and "does this module support this port"? Well, those days are gone with the 8088! This is the long-awaited
| "merge" of the two popular Perl ports, and has the absolute best of both plus more!
So there oughtn\'t to be any problem about simply using DBD::ODBC, which
works better and is the future.
So ... any chance of getting i-way to install it? There are at least two
other knockdown bugs in the current setup (table aliasing and multiple
cursors) which might go away too.
Otherwise I can rewrite the bargains stuff (and now the bulletin boards)
not to use placeholders. In fact ... I would probably hack something
in DBIUtil to fake them ... but my instinct at least is to go with
The Right Thing.
Incidentally there is a thing called PerlEx now which works like mod_perl,
and lets you load your code and do all the initialisation, then just
run it over and over again---vastly more efficient. However we don\'t
actually seem to need it!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10578,'Mon Oct 26 22:54:19 1998','phones really do rot your brain',4,0,'
Dan, if your IQ is still up to it, take a look at yesterday\'s
Sunday Independent ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10579,'Tue Oct 27 9:19:27 1998','Re: Booking',2,10543,'
>When booking is complete, there is no back button, so you can go back to the main page.
>Ben Janes
The main problem with this is that we don\'t really have a main page
to go back to! Note that this also affects pages with an iglu icon
(e.g. "About Iglu.com") which at the moment loads index.html.
This doesn\'t feel quite right to me - the user should just choose
the next thing they want to look at from the menu.
Thoughts?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10580,'Tue Oct 27 9:23:49 1998','Re: insurance',2,10548,'
>In the booking request form we need to also include an insurance request
>the simplest form of this is a drop down containing the cover types
>(as in the new booking admin page, but with a \'none\' option).
>We need one of these for every party member on teh booking request.
>This info then needs to appear in the new booking page so iglu can do the
>calculations.
BEN - We will need a new field on BookCust - a link to Insurance_Type
called something like RsqtInsType.
>Also
>for legal reasons, and so iglu have their ass covered, there has to be a
>check box for poeple who arent taking the iglu insurance, to state that they have
>insurance from somewhere else.
>if the user chooses no iglu insurance and fails to tick this box, then their
>booking request is rejected.
Does this mean that we do not need to store the value of the checkbox?
If we do need to store this then we will need a new field in BookCust
>how does this sound?
>
>There is some precise legal wording to go along with this, but I dont have it yet.
>When I do - youll know about it.
Great.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10581,'Tue Oct 27 9:31:34 1998','Re: Re: Re: booking response',2,10547,'
>>Also, I still do not know how to handle the ski passes.
>>Could you please spell out to a confused developer exactly
>>what we should do?
>after hours of fierce negotiation we have agreed the simplest possible solution
>In the booking request form we will ask anyone who wants a skipass
>to say so in the comments box. All the processing will then be done manually by iglu.
>So
>Can we include some text on the request form to this effect:
>
>"If you wish to book a ski pass in advance please state in the box below:
>1. the skiers name
>2. the number of days you wish the pass to cover (6 or 7)
>3. the start date for your ski pass
>(note: advanced ski pass booking is available for certain properties only.)"
>
>how does this sound?
Sounds good.
>(maybe we could include a separate text box for this information - its up to you)
I\'ll have a look.
BEN - We will need the following fields in BookCust:
SkipassCost - number
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10582,'Tue Oct 27 9:37:58 1998','FIXED',2,10549,'
>departure dates are still not showing up in the new booking admin page
Remember, Myles, the opposite of arrDate is departDate not depDate! Doh!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10583,'Tue Oct 27 9:40:09 1998','FIXED',2,10550,'
>can we word the booking rejection header a little friendlier
>I dont know how
>maybe just lose the header altogether and say
>there were some problems with your booking request. Please go back and check tehfollowing details.
>???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10584,'Tue Oct 27 9:41:51 1998','Re: booking request price range ',2,10553,'
>Just for my own piece of mind..
>in the booking request form - where does the price range in the property short list come from?
>and if its a meaningful price, cant we use it in the search results?
It comes from the Property Table (the PRange field).
I suspect that it isn\'t a meaningful price (certainly lots of properties
do not at present have any data in this field).
Should I drop it from the booking form?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10585,'Tue Oct 27 9:44:46 1998','Consistency',2,0,'
There are some inconsistencies around. Beside needing to remove
references to \'chalet\', we need to fix on a way to spell e-mail
(or, if you prefer, email).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10586,'Tue Oct 27 9:46:41 1998','FIXED',2,10566,'
>on the booking accepted page can we have
>\'We expect to be able to confirm the availability of your requested property within 24 hours\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10587,'Tue Oct 27 9:50:37 1998','Re: Re: booking request price range ',23,10584,'
>I suspect that it isn\'t a meaningful price (certainly lots of properties
>do not at present have any data in this field).
>Should I drop it from the booking form?
YES
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10588,'Tue Oct 27 9:53:27 1998','Re: Re: insurance',20,10580,'
>>In the booking request form we need to also include an insurance request
>>the simplest form of this is a drop down containing the cover types
>>(as in the new booking admin page, but with a \'none\' option).
>>We need one of these for every party member on teh booking request.
>>This info then needs to appear in the new booking page so iglu can do the
>>calculations.
>
>BEN - We will need a new field on BookCust - a link to Insurance_Type
>called something like RsqtInsType.
We already have this field:
In the BookCust table we have:
InsType - Long Integer link to Insurance_Type
InsComp - Long Integer link to Company
InsCost - Single to represent cost of insurance
Ben.
>
>>Also
>>for legal reasons, and so iglu have their ass covered, there has to be a
>>check box for poeple who arent taking the iglu insurance, to state that they have
>>insurance from somewhere else.
>>if the user chooses no iglu insurance and fails to tick this box, then their
>>booking request is rejected.
>
>Does this mean that we do not need to store the value of the checkbox?
>If we do need to store this then we will need a new field in BookCust
>
>>how does this sound?
>>
>>There is some precise legal wording to go along with this, but I dont have it yet.
>>When I do - youll know about it.
>
>Great.
I have added a field:
NotIGLUIns to BookCust, this is true if they are taking their own insurance, false if they are taking Iglus insurance
Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10589,'Tue Oct 27 10:02:54 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Login Problems',2,10569,'
>>1) Go to the site (www.iglu.com)
>>2) Click "Your booking" and log on. you see the booking form
>>3) Click "Your Shortlist"
>>4) Click "Chalet shortlist"
>>you will be asked to log on.
>Rightyho, I\'ve twigged what the problem is:
>BookingGoto.pl doesn\'t set the cookie.
>The obvious solution would be to stuff BookingGoto.pl
>and put the Login::ensure directly into booking_form.pl.
>(See any of the search/*Shortlist* scripts for an
>example, or BookingGoto.pl itself.)
Will,
Unfortunately this not only doesn\'t work, but also messes up my
dates for some unexplored reason.
Any other (quick) suggestions?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10590,'Tue Oct 27 10:03:37 1998','group size consistancy',23,0,'
in the group size drop down on the property search
can we rationalize it some?
ie
up to 4 persons
5 to 8 persons
9 to 12 persons
13 to 19 persons
more than 20 persons
or something
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10591,'Tue Oct 27 10:24:37 1998','FIXED',1,10332,'
>lush.
>I wish people would pay me to write java, not just this perl!!$$** stuff.
>i wanna make pretty pictures
>TimJ
>>Everybody,
>>Could you please take a look at:
>>http://www.iglu.com/html/IForager.html
>>And check out SkiForager, (it does take a while to load), so please be patient (a faster version is on the road).
>>
>>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10592,'Tue Oct 27 10:25:09 1998','FIXED',1,10420,'
>>>Bite the bullet was my advice...
>>:)
>>>but also
>>>could we in \'Process offline search matches\' (BargainsMatchList.html)
>>> can we have a button
>>>on the left of each result that fires off the relevant email
>>>as is, (ie send the email in BargainsMatch.html without
>>>having to actually go into BargainsMatch.html)?
>>Good idea.
>>Tim---can I go ahead with this?
>
>yes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10593,'Tue Oct 27 10:25:49 1998','FIXED',1,10509,'
>>I think the issue is important. eg issue number 5.1 ?
>It\'s fine in Orem, Utah. Why would anyone else ever want
>fractional issue numbers? I\'m with Oyster on this one:
>the issue number is auto-fill not manual and it\'s just a
>unique identifier which is there to make the thing look
>organized.
>>we don\'t know how often newsletters will be published, (probably ad-hoc rather than monthly).
>Fair play, was just how Oyster had it portrayed ...
>> I have redone the newsletter admin side completely, hope you don\'t mind.
>It rocks and it sucks in about equal measure. I prefer Oyster\'s single-page
>story entry (though yours is more flexible) and I\'m not sure the ability to
>change stories retrospectively is a big win.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10594,'Tue Oct 27 10:26:17 1998','FIXED',1,10496,'
>>Hi,
>>In order to spead up SkiForager, download time, I intend (after advice from TimJ), to download all the pictures in one Image, and then split it up, into the separate images.
>>I had found how to do it, in JDK 1.1.7, but as IGLU want maximum exposure, I have to write in JDK 1.0.2, in order to work on the version 3 browsers.
>>I have found this Java method in 1.0.2,
>>public abstract boolean
>>drawImage(Image img, int x, int y, int width, int height, ImageObserver observer)
>umm, have you had a look at CropImageFilter?
>Sorry I can\'t be of more help. Java very rusty.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10595,'Tue Oct 27 10:27:47 1998','FIXED',1,9723,'
>The spec states that Properties, Resorts and Domains will have a published status. There is no such database field at present. Do we need one?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10596,'Tue Oct 27 10:28:34 1998','FIXED',1,10319,'
>As a side-effect of the speeded-up template expansion
>code, we have a new way of accessing database variables.
>At present you just say $foo and if there happens to be
>a database field with that name in the current magic
>object or one of its dependent rows, you get its value.
>Now you can write explicitly
> $.skiresort.skidomain.chld6dypass
>as well as
> $..chld6dypass
>to get the auto-search of dependent rows, or in fact
> $.skiresort..chld6dypass
>This is perhaps a preferable way of doing things because
>it makes it clear what is a database field (all and only
>things with dots in), is a little more efficient since
>it doesn\'t require the auto-search to be done unless you
>request it, and removes the (slight) possibility of
>confusion due to the renaming that currently goes on
>when two fields have the same name.
>There is no compelling reason to move over to using this
>syntax in all the templates but we could do it quite
>easily and reliably by (1) having the system tell us
>what the expanded versions of the field names ought to be,
>or even make the change automatically, and (2) having made
>the changes, run the system with all uses the current magic
>variable syntax rigged to generate an error so that we
>know we have found them all.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10597,'Tue Oct 27 10:30:41 1998','FIXED',1,10461,'
>We\'ve been through this before---
>because we don\'t know exactly how many people are actually
>going to be in the party (it\'s only a range), we don\'t
>know exactly what the price per person is. So the same
>pricing record/property can be a hit for two (or maybe
>more!) adjacent price ranges.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10598,'Tue Oct 27 10:37:55 1998','Getting into CGI-BIN',2,0,'
If you do a search which gives no results then the "Back" button
and link lead into cgi-bin!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10599,'Tue Oct 27 10:40:16 1998','Re: Getting into CGI-BIN',2,10598,'
>If you do a search which gives no results then the "Back" button
>and link lead into cgi-bin!
... and BookingGoto.pl sends me to cgi-bin. Probably why putting Login
into Booking Form didn\'t work.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10600,'Tue Oct 27 10:48:09 1998','FIXED',2,10554,'
>Is there a simple way of forcing somebody to set the booking dates
>like maybe defaulting to blank values?
>The danger is they will both be left as they are - 1/1/98
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10601,'Tue Oct 27 10:52:24 1998','FIXED',1,10480,'
>>>The previous/next board icons don\'t appear because they
>>>only appear if the list you chose from was a complete
>>>listing from a bulletin board.
>>>However since this seemed to surprise you I\'ve changed
>>>it (Posting.pl, BoardUtil.pm).
>>ie the "current bulletin board" survives down into followup
>>browsing
>and it even works on iglu.com as well now (sorry, was
>running out of cgi-bin and uploading to cgi-int---
>broke it trying to find out why it wasn\'t working ...)
>let me know if the change has messed anything else up!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10602,'Tue Oct 27 10:52:48 1998','FIXED',1,10476,'
>>Will,
>[snip]
>>If you then click on the (title of) the follow-up you can
>>see the message alright, but the previous/next message icons
>>and previous/next board icons don\'t appear.
>>If you go to the BulletinBoard and click on the (title of)
>>the new message, the links are there.
>In fact, you don\'t have to create a follow-up. Go to a posting
>and then click on a follow-up. Usually the next/previous links
>are not there (but sometimes they are :-(
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10603,'Tue Oct 27 10:56:58 1998','FIXED',2,10587,'
>
>>I suspect that it isn\'t a meaningful price (certainly lots of properties
>>do not at present have any data in this field).
>>Should I drop it from the booking form?
>YES
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10604,'Tue Oct 27 10:59:08 1998','Re: Re: Re: insurance',2,10588,'
>>>In the booking request form we need to also include an insurance request
>>>the simplest form of this is a drop down containing the cover types
>>>(as in the new booking admin page, but with a \'none\' option).
>>>We need one of these for every party member on teh booking request.
>>>This info then needs to appear in the new booking page so iglu can do the
>>>calculations.
>>
>>BEN - We will need a new field on BookCust - a link to Insurance_Type
>>called something like RsqtInsType.
>We already have this field:
>In the BookCust table we have:
>InsType - Long Integer link to Insurance_Type
>InsComp - Long Integer link to Company
>InsCost - Single to represent cost of insurance
>Ben.
These fields are for the insurance offered by Iglu. We still
need the new field (rqstInsType) so that Iglu know what kind
of insurance to offer.
>
>>
>>>Also
>>>for legal reasons, and so iglu have their ass covered, there has to be a
>>>check box for poeple who arent taking the iglu insurance, to state that they have
>>>insurance from somewhere else.
>>>if the user chooses no iglu insurance and fails to tick this box, then their
>>>booking request is rejected.
>>
>>Does this mean that we do not need to store the value of the checkbox?
>>If we do need to store this then we will need a new field in BookCust
>>
>>>how does this sound?
>>>
>>>There is some precise legal wording to go along with this, but I dont have it yet.
>>>When I do - youll know about it.
>>
>>Great.
>I have added a field:
>NotIGLUIns to BookCust, this is true if they are taking their own insurance, false if they are taking Iglus insurance
>
>Ben
Thanks
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10605,'Tue Oct 27 10:59:10 1998','Re: Re: Booking',1,10579,'
>>When booking is complete, there is no back button, so you can go back to the main page.
>>Ben Janes
>The main problem with this is that we don\'t really have a main page
>to go back to! Note that this also affects pages with an iglu icon
>(e.g. "About Iglu.com") which at the moment loads index.html.
>This doesn\'t feel quite right to me - the user should just choose
>the next thing they want to look at from the menu.
>Thoughts?
back to index.html
there will be more stuff on this page (aparently)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10606,'Tue Oct 27 11:02:50 1998','Re Re Ski Forager',1,10574,'
>>Ski Forager, is now up and has picture splitting implemented, hopefully decreasing load time.
>>Take a look and see...
>It\'s fab :) :) :)
how about a more interesting message than please wait.. (cos it still takes a while). Why don\'t you put the instructions up there as well, or do a brief intro.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10607,'Tue Oct 27 11:06:56 1998','FIXED',1,10555,'
>sorry about this - but can we change the order of the nav buttons to
>property search
>resort search
>ski forager
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10608,'Tue Oct 27 11:10:07 1998','FIXED',1,10557,'
>In \'your shortlist\' can we change \'chalet\' to \'property\'
>(and anywhere else where the dreaded chalet appears)
thought i\'d got all of there, but now fixed. sorry
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10609,'Tue Oct 27 11:15:36 1998','Call Management',20,0,'
In call management when I click on View, I get:
\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\Call.pl\' script produced no output
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10610,'Tue Oct 27 11:21:38 1998','FIXED',1,10559,'
>there does seem to be a sizable wad of space on the search results page
>just below view short list icon and above the first property name
>Any chance of shrinking it a bit??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10611,'Tue Oct 27 11:30:34 1998','Re: property details',1,10565,'
>I think the phone might need a check box - just for consistancy
phone is actuall phone type, are you saying you want a tick as well ast the text or instead of?
>also
>Miscellaneous is spelt rong
fixed, but i diligently copied the spelling from you last post on this subject, so not my fault guv.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10612,'Tue Oct 27 11:33:29 1998','Re: property search results',1,10568,'
>what about enboldening the font for
>Booking Period
>Accommodation type
>Catering type
>Price
>No of people
>to emphasise the most pertinent selection criteria
>????
no, ideally we would have \'half bold\', but making them bold detracts from the headings \'property description\' and \'resort description\', so I\'d like not to. Ok by you?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10613,'Tue Oct 27 11:36:58 1998','FIXED',1,10577,'
>The bargains stuff, in case anyone is wondering what has happened to it,
>works on my machine but totally fails on iglu.com because the particular
>Perl-ODBC driver we are using does not support placeholders (`bind
>variables\'). Jet does, Access does, ODBC does, DBI does, DBD::ODBC does,
>DBI::W32ODBC doesn\'t.
>It seems that W32ODBC was superseded by DBD::ODBC some time around
>4Q97. It also seems that the most recent `ActiveState\' Perl, which
>we presumably now have, complies with the standard Perl module-loading
>system: to quote from their home page,
>So there oughtn\'t to be any problem about simply using DBD::ODBC, which
>works better and is the future.
>So ... any chance of getting i-way to install it? There are at least two
>other knockdown bugs in the current setup (table aliasing and multiple
>cursors) which might go away too.
ok, i checked this out, and have it running fine on my pc. I agree, we should use this in the future, but it\'s too late to change over now.
>Otherwise I can rewrite the bargains stuff (and now the bulletin boards)
>not to use placeholders. In fact ... I would probably hack something
>in DBIUtil to fake them ... but my instinct at least is to go with
>The Right Thing.
no faking please, lets make the code readable :)
>Incidentally there is a thing called PerlEx now which works like mod_perl,
>and lets you load your code and do all the initialisation, then just
>run it over and over again---vastly more efficient. However we don\'t
>actually seem to need it!
good to have in reserve though.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10614,'Tue Oct 27 11:37:37 1998','XIFED',1,10578,'
>Dan, if your IQ is still up to it, take a look at yesterday\'s
>Sunday Independent ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10615,'Tue Oct 27 11:39:05 1998','Re: Consistency',1,10585,'
>There are some inconsistencies around. Beside needing to remove
>references to \'chalet\', we need to fix on a way to spell e-mail
>(or, if you prefer, email).
deffinitely \'email\' (like ecommerce, ebusiness and elephant), and please point out any \'chalets\' so they can be fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10616,'Tue Oct 27 11:44:12 1998','FIXED',1,10590,'
>in the group size drop down on the property search
>can we rationalize it some?
>ie
>up to 4 persons
>5 to 8 persons
>9 to 12 persons
>13 to 19 persons
>more than 20 persons
>
>or something
this is just william testing his parser, now fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10617,'Tue Oct 27 11:51:23 1998','Re: Re: Getting into CGI-BIN',1,10599,'
>>If you do a search which gives no results then the "Back" button
>>and link lead into cgi-bin!
>... and BookingGoto.pl sends me to cgi-bin. Probably why putting Login
>into Booking Form didn\'t work.
somebody trashed iglupage.pm yesterday at 18.36 (i was having my tea :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10618,'Tue Oct 27 11:53:05 1998','Re: Call Management',1,10609,'
>In call management when I click on View, I get:
>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\Call.pl\' script produced no output
please try again, it works from me (i have just fixed a little thing that may have fixed this)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10619,'Tue Oct 27 12:01:28 1998','Re: Re Re Ski Forager',20,10606,'
>>>Ski Forager, is now up and has picture splitting implemented, hopefully decreasing load time.
>>>Take a look and see...
>>It\'s fab :) :) :)
>how about a more interesting message than please wait.. (cos it still takes a while). Why don\'t you put the instructions up there as well, or do a brief intro.
New intro added.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10620,'Tue Oct 27 13:06:23 1998','Re: Re: property details',23,10611,'
>>I think the phone might need a check box - just for consistancy
>phone is actuall phone type, are you saying you want a tick as well ast the text or instead of?
I think a tick box and text - if thats ok
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10621,'Tue Oct 27 13:16:49 1998','Re: Re: property search results',23,10612,'
>>what about enboldening the font for
>>Booking Period
>>Accommodation type
>>Catering type
>>Price
>>No of people
>>to emphasise the most pertinent selection criteria
>>????
>no, ideally we would have \'half bold\', but making them bold detracts from the headings \'property description\' and \'resort description\', so I\'d like not to. Ok by you?
a valid point well made - I concur
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10622,'Tue Oct 27 13:28:16 1998','FIXED',1,10621,'
>>>what about enboldening the font for
>>>Booking Period
>>>Accommodation type
>>>Catering type
>>>Price
>>>No of people
>>>to emphasise the most pertinent selection criteria
>>>????
>>no, ideally we would have \'half bold\', but making them bold detracts from the headings \'property description\' and \'resort description\', so I\'d like not to. Ok by you?
>a valid point well made - I concur
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10623,'Tue Oct 27 13:31:13 1998','confirm details',23,0,'
First name Surname
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10624,'Tue Oct 27 13:31:22 1998','FIXED',1,10620,'
>>>I think the phone might need a check box - just for consistancy
>>phone is actuall phone type, are you saying you want a tick as well ast the text or instead of?
>
>I think a tick box and text - if thats ok
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10625,'Tue Oct 27 13:35:14 1998','confirm details',23,0,'
in the confirm details page after logging in Im getting
\'First name Surname\' in the \'your name\' field
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10626,'Tue Oct 27 14:10:58 1998','shortlist back button',23,0,'
when entering the shortlists from the \'your shortlist\' page
the back buttons (both property and resort) dont do anything.
maybe we sould just get rid of them?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10627,'Tue Oct 27 14:12:23 1998','fixed',23,10625,'
>
>in the confirm details page after logging in Im getting
>\'First name Surname\' in the \'your name\' field
>
>
just forget I ever even mentioned it...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10628,'Tue Oct 27 14:18:38 1998','FIXED',1,10563,'
I have added a small explanation.
NB william, I have also moved sendmail into UTIL, and have therefor changed UTIL.pl
>>how do you send the shortlist to multiple recipients? Can there be an explanation?
>you simply put several addresses in, separated I believe by whitespace
>or commata
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10629,'Tue Oct 27 14:20:16 1998','your shortlist',23,0,'
could we tidy the text a tad on the \'your shortlist\' page
as the links are being split across lines.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10630,'Tue Oct 27 14:26:07 1998','FIXED',1,10626,'
>when entering the shortlists from the \'your shortlist\' page
>the back buttons (both property and resort) dont do anything.
>maybe we sould just get rid of them?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10631,'Tue Oct 27 14:26:29 1998','FIXED',1,10623,'
>
>First name Surname
>
>
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10632,'Tue Oct 27 14:28:14 1998','FIXED',1,10629,'
>could we tidy the text a tad on the \'your shortlist\' page
>as the links are being split across lines.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10633,'Tue Oct 27 14:28:42 1998','FIXED',1,10617,'
>>>If you do a search which gives no results then the "Back" button
>>>and link lead into cgi-bin!
>>... and BookingGoto.pl sends me to cgi-bin. Probably why putting Login
>>into Booking Form didn\'t work.
>somebody trashed iglupage.pm yesterday at 18.36 (i was having my tea :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10634,'Tue Oct 27 14:37:02 1998','datadictionary',1,0,'
Will,
the datadictionary is missing some of your recent fields and tables.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10635,'Tue Oct 27 14:37:57 1998','property details',23,0,'
\'Accommodation\' is missspelled
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10636,'Tue Oct 27 14:40:32 1998','Re: property details',23,10635,'
>
>\'Accommodation\' is missspelled
actually - could we change this to
\'Property type\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10637,'Tue Oct 27 14:52:22 1998','property details ski lift',23,0,'
Im getting ski lift distanced like - 516.666666666667m
eg
in Suite Hotel (AS 2p), La Massana, Andorra
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10638,'Tue Oct 27 14:54:39 1998','property details ski lift',23,0,'
Im getting ski lift distanced like - 516.666666666667m
eg
in Suite Hotel (AS 2p), La Massana, Andorra
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10639,'Tue Oct 27 15:08:53 1998','property details towels',23,0,'
the towels check box doesnt seem to be working
eg
search for chalets in Arêches-Beaufort - (there is only one)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10640,'Tue Oct 27 15:11:38 1998','select distinct',4,0,'
anyone know how to make Jet do a SELECT DISTINCT?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10641,'Tue Oct 27 15:15:59 1998','fixed',4,10640,'
>anyone know how to make Jet do a SELECT DISTINCT?
found it
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10642,'Tue Oct 27 15:24:24 1998','bargains: early access release for comments',4,0,'
User side:
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/bargs/BargainsRequestRegister.pl
Admin side:
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/bargs/BargainsAdministration.pl
Known issues: display of dates (lots of them seem to be coming
out as times)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10643,'Tue Oct 27 15:26:47 1998','fixed',4,10570,'
bulletin boards happy again
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10644,'Tue Oct 27 15:27:54 1998','Re: Call Management',20,10609,'
>In call management when I click on View, I get:
>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\Call.pl\' script produced no output
>
>Ben Janes
Reboot, and it now takes me back to the Admin Login screen.....
Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10645,'Tue Oct 27 15:29:41 1998','Re: fixed',1,10641,'
>>anyone know how to make Jet do a SELECT DISTINCT?
>found it
do tell the rest of us!
also you said you had some good reference pages.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10646,'Tue Oct 27 15:31:18 1998','FIXED',1,10636,'
>>
>>\'Accommodation\' is missspelled
what is wrong with it?
>actually - could we change this to
>\'Property type\'
fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10647,'Tue Oct 27 15:36:44 1998','Re: property details ski lift',1,10637,'
>
>Im getting ski lift distanced like - 516.666666666667m
>eg
>in Suite Hotel (AS 2p), La Massana, Andorra
this is being created by:
$altskifoot / 3
anyone throw any light on this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10648,'Tue Oct 27 16:02:37 1998','FIXED',1,10639,'
>
>the towels check box doesnt seem to be working
>eg
>search for chalets in Arêches-Beaufort - (there is only one)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10649,'Tue Oct 27 16:04:02 1998','Re: Re: property details ski lift',1,10647,'
>>
>>Im getting ski lift distanced like - 516.666666666667m
>>eg
>>in Suite Hotel (AS 2p), La Massana, Andorra
>this is being created by:
>$altskifoot / 3
>anyone throw any light on this?
this appears to be translating into meters from feet !?
there is no field that contains this info directly. what do we do?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10650,'Tue Oct 27 16:08:14 1998','notes to tim: merging cgi-bin => cgi-int',4,0,'
Lots has been added in cgi-bin/*.pm and cgi-bin/bargs,
otherwise little has changed.
Main things I noticed:
as said on phone, shortlists seem have got confused
between do_ and non-do_ at some point recently
also Login.pm: it\'s now supposed to work with grouplogin
in the cookie not booking.id, but this also has got
stomped or whatever
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10651,'Tue Oct 27 16:08:49 1998','Re: Re: Call Management',1,10644,'
>>In call management when I click on View, I get:
>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\Call.pl\' script produced no output
>>
>>Ben Janes
>Reboot, and it now takes me back to the Admin Login screen.....
ok, this is pointing to cgi-bin, not cgi-int. can you clear your cache, or reload the main admin screen, or something.
this works fine for me.
>
>Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10652,'Tue Oct 27 16:10:01 1998','Re: Re: Re: property details ski lift',4,10649,'
>>$altskifoot / 3
>>anyone throw any light on this?
obviously it should be pi
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10653,'Tue Oct 27 16:14:32 1998','property details pictures',23,0,'
some probs here
1. the kitchen photo is turning up twice
2. the livingroom picture is not turning up
3. the location map isnt showing up (maybe this could go at the bottom of the stack)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10654,'Tue Oct 27 17:07:16 1998','property details price table',23,0,'
in the price table these seems to be a time stamp \'00:00:00\'
in all the date fields. Is this normal?
also
how possible/desirable would it be to truncate the year display
down to two chars? It might make a dense and complex block of
information a tad easier to cognise...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10655,'Tue Oct 27 17:13:38 1998','Re: Re: Re: search criteria labels',23,10575,'
>>>is there anything to be gained - clarity wise - from shrinking the
>>>search criteria labels down a point or two - and maybe even justifying
>>>them to the right so they but up agin the boxes???? ??
>>seconded
>soorry, they are already size="2", and 1 is difficult to read for most people. We could loose the bold. comments?
deboldening might help - hard to say untill you see it.
What about the right justification?? any milage there?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10656,'Tue Oct 27 17:21:56 1998','Re: Re: Re: search criteria labels',23,10575,'
also
as discussed can we move the date search up to underneath the price search
also
can we change this accommodation type to \'property type\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10657,'Tue Oct 27 17:32:19 1998','property search - distance from slopes',23,0,'
just hypothetically...
how bad would it be to change the \'over 500m\' criteria to
\'500m - 2km\'
and then add another one to the list
\'over 2km\'
???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10658,'Tue Oct 27 17:33:35 1998','Re: property details pictures',1,10653,'
>some probs here
>1. the kitchen photo is turning up twice
>2. the livingroom picture is not turning up
cool, fixed
>3. the location map isnt showing up (maybe this could go at the bottom of the stack)
this is a new one for me. how big are the pics? where should it go?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10659,'Tue Oct 27 17:35:09 1998','Promotions - Error',20,0,'
When I enter promotions, I enter my email,
It came back with some stuff about me. I edited some of it, then clicked submit.
I got this Error message:
Invalid email address `$!email\': shouldn\'t be seeing this
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10660,'Tue Oct 27 17:39:40 1998','property short list',23,0,'
typo in the blurb at the top of the page
\'you preferred\' instead of \'your preferred\'
also
can we make the \'property shortlist\' header stand out a little more?
Its getting lost and its not obvious where you are.
(ideally perhaps the \'property search\' graphic header should be \'shortlist\' at this point - but...)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10661,'Tue Oct 27 17:44:24 1998','Booking Error',20,0,'
When I was testing my booking, I tabbed right through property cost, also didn\'t have a property offered clicked, only one property available. Booking id=105/
I got an error, which I couldn\'t reproduce,
Just thought I\'d mention it anyway.
Worked fine, other times though.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10662,'Tue Oct 27 17:50:25 1998','Booking Errors, Nos 2 & 3',20,0,'
Number 2.
When I had a deposit to pay of £250, I agreed in the final confimation before paying, in payment, the deposit had been reduced to: £.1 - slight problem here.
Number 3.
The system allowed me to have a accomodation with price of £0, I could confirm etc.
Ben janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10663,'Tue Oct 27 18:07:25 1998','fixed',4,10634,'
>Will,
>the datadictionary is missing some of your recent fields and tables.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10664,'Tue Oct 27 18:14:07 1998','Re: Promotions - Error',4,10659,'
>When I enter promotions, I enter my email,
>It came back with some stuff about me. I edited some of it, then clicked submit.
>I got this Error message:
>Invalid email address `$!email\': shouldn\'t be seeing this
Use the links I posted this afternoon.
The link from the site goes to cgi-int but there is
only one templates directory.
Tim is doing a merge so the difference will not persist.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10665,'Tue Oct 27 18:15:32 1998','Re: property search - distance from slopes',4,10657,'
It\'s no problem at all, it will just work
AS LONG as you say 2000m rather than 2km
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10666,'Tue Oct 27 18:17:12 1998','date display, passim',4,0,'
I\'d introduced a fault in "tidying this up"
due to a difference between the output of
Postgres and that off Access ...
sorry, fixed now, they should all look better
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10667,'Tue Oct 27 18:20:25 1998','Re: Re: fixed',4,10645,'
>>>anyone know how to make Jet do a SELECT DISTINCT?
>>found it
>do tell the rest of us!
it doesn\'t accept SELECT DISTINCT ON id id FROM property
but it does accept SELECT DISTINCT id FROM property
(the obvious thing but I made an unrelated mistake
in my posql trying it out the first time so I thought
that didn\'t work either!)
>also you said you had some good reference pages.
yes, unfortunately they are on my computer in Holland
and I can\'t reach US web pages from here without
paying extra,
I\'ll fish them off there tonight though
One very useful one, bitty but full of examples,
is www.sfi-software.com (or at least buried therein).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10668,'Tue Oct 27 18:26:32 1998','Re: Re: property details pictures',23,10658,'
>>some probs here
>>1. the kitchen photo is turning up twice
>>2. the livingroom picture is not turning up
>cool, fixed
>>3. the location map isnt showing up (maybe this could go at the bottom of the stack)
>this is a new one for me. how big are the pics? where should it go?
at the moment the pic sizes are all over the place, but I guess they will be larger than average. So stick em at the bottom with the floor plans.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10669,'Tue Oct 27 18:32:53 1998','Re: Re: property search - distance from slopes',23,10665,'
>It\'s no problem at all, it will just work
>AS LONG as you say 2000m rather than 2km
ok - lets do it
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10670,'Tue Oct 27 18:37:53 1998','booking management',23,0,'
another hypothetical...
when processing a booking how possible/likely is it to have , as well as the clear form and submit options, to have a save option that would save the currnt state of the form and flag it with a \'pending\' status and stick it in the unconfirmed booking list
??????????
(Ill completely understand if the answer is not at all)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10671,'Tue Oct 27 20:32:54 1998','Re: Booking Errors, Nos 2 & 3',2,10662,'
>Number 2.
>When I had a deposit to pay of £250, I agreed in the final confimation before paying, in payment, the deposit had been reduced to: £.1 - slight problem here.
This was for testing. Fixed
>
>Number 3.
>The system allowed me to have a accomodation with price of £0, I could confirm etc.
>
>Ben janes
Would you like me to check that the amount entered on the Booking Offer page
is non-zero?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10672,'Tue Oct 27 20:34:09 1998','Re: booking management',2,10670,'
>another hypothetical...
>when processing a booking how possible/likely is it to have , as well as the clear form and submit options, to have a save option that would save the currnt state of the form and flag it with a \'pending\' status and stick it in the unconfirmed booking list
>??????????
>(Ill completely understand if the answer is not at all)
Very easy if we can get the graphic done.
Thoughts?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10673,'Tue Oct 27 20:45:18 1998','Re: Re: Re: property details ski lift',2,10649,'
>>>
>>>Im getting ski lift distanced like - 516.666666666667m
>>>eg
>>>in Suite Hotel (AS 2p), La Massana, Andorra
>>this is being created by:
>>$altskifoot / 3
>>anyone throw any light on this?
>this appears to be translating into meters from feet !?
>there is no field that contains this info directly. what do we do?
If you still need to calculate then
0.3 * $alskifoot
is more accurate and gives better numbers.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10674,'Tue Oct 27 22:44:16 1998','sweet dreams',1,0,'
will,
so you don\'t have nightmares:
the problem appears to be data related (getting several 100 property records), and therefor not too much worry. I do feel we need to limit the results though!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10675,'Tue Oct 27 23:39:26 1998','Re: sweet dreams',4,10674,'
>will,
>so you don\'t have nightmares:
>the problem appears to be data related (getting several 100 property records), and therefor not too much worry. I do feel we need to limit the results though!
I had a feeling that might be it, I realised shortly
after you called that there was no limit ... something
*will* have to be done about it, sorry.
I just made dinner for my new flatmates, before
discovering that one of them doesn\'t "work in a
restaurant" as he claims---he\'s the chef!
Luckily turned out OK.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10676,'Wed Oct 28 9:10:40 1998','i-way down',1,0,'
All of i-way appears to be down (including i-way.co.uk). will advise.
tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10677,'Wed Oct 28 9:14:53 1998','Re: i-way down',1,10676,'
>All of i-way appears to be down (including i-way.co.uk). will advise.
>tim
Aparently due to a power failure
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10678,'Wed Oct 28 9:35:11 1998','Re: Re: i-way down',1,10677,'
>>All of i-way appears to be down (including i-way.co.uk). will advise.
>>tim
>Aparently due to a power failure
it\'s back now
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10679,'Wed Oct 28 10:01:05 1998','booking request',23,0,'
when trying to submit a booking request with any of the mandatory fields empty
I get:
Error
Undefined subroutine &Util::reject_form called at E:\iglu\cgi-int\booking\booking_form.pl line 372.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10680,'Wed Oct 28 10:01:29 1998','today',1,0,'
All,
Today is the last day for reporting enhancements and features for the iglu.com system. Except for in the areas of Promotions and Ecommerce, both of which are outstanding and hopefully will be delivered today.
Obviously all bugs will continue to be fixed.
comments?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10681,'Wed Oct 28 10:16:53 1998','Re: Re: booking management',23,10672,'
>>another hypothetical...
>>when processing a booking how possible/likely is it to have , as well as the clear form and submit options, to have a save option that would save the currnt state of the form and flag it with a \'pending\' status and stick it in the unconfirmed booking list
>>??????????
>>(Ill completely understand if the answer is not at all)
>Very easy if we can get the graphic done.
>Thoughts?
dont quite understand what the graphic is for???
Im just thinking about the admin side
ie - the save button goes on the \'new booking\' page so that someone who
is processing the booking can save a half processed one and get back to it later.
the saved booking is than accessible from the \'unconfirmed booking\' page and is flagged as status - pending
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10682,'Wed Oct 28 10:18:48 1998','pref_active',1,0,'
will,
has this disapeared? if so, why?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10683,'Wed Oct 28 10:19:10 1998','Re: today',23,10680,'
>All,
>Today is the last day for reporting enhancements and features for the iglu.com system. Except for in the areas of Promotions and Ecommerce, both of which are outstanding and hopefully will be delivered today.
>Obviously all bugs will continue to be fixed.
>comments?
There are a few things filtering through
Ill weed them and post them asap
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10684,'Wed Oct 28 10:27:29 1998','Travel details requested',23,0,'
in booking management / new booking, the \'Travel details requested\' section
is a little out of whack. (check booking no 114)
Place of departure has a date in it
I think everything has been shifted one cell to the left - possibly because
no place of departure was specified in the booking?????
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10685,'Wed Oct 28 10:42:27 1998','Re: Re: Re: booking management',2,10681,'
>>>another hypothetical...
>>>when processing a booking how possible/likely is it to have , as well as the clear form and submit options, to have a save option that would save the currnt state of the form and flag it with a \'pending\' status and stick it in the unconfirmed booking list
>>>??????????
>>>(Ill completely understand if the answer is not at all)
>>Very easy if we can get the graphic done.
>>Thoughts?
>dont quite understand what the graphic is for???
>Im just thinking about the admin side
>ie - the save button goes on the \'new booking\' page so that someone who
>is processing the booking can save a half processed one and get back to it later.
>the saved booking is than accessible from the \'unconfirmed booking\' page and is flagged as status - pending
Sorry John, I was thinking of the Customer\'s Booking Form. Should have
read the subject :-)
This is more difficult on the Booking Offer form, but I\'ll see how we do
for time and hope to get it done.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10686,'Wed Oct 28 10:46:05 1998','booking travel details (admin)',23,0,'
in the unconfirmed booking page - in the outbound and return travel details sections - the travel drop-downs dont have a \'none\' option.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10687,'Wed Oct 28 11:02:46 1998','booking - property cost',23,0,'
in the unconfirmed booking page - is it possible to calculate the Property Cost for the booking directly , and stick it in the \'Property Cost\' box???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10688,'Wed Oct 28 11:07:00 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Login Problems',2,10589,'
>>>1) Go to the site (www.iglu.com)
>>>2) Click "Your booking" and log on. you see the booking form
>>>3) Click "Your Shortlist"
>>>4) Click "Chalet shortlist"
>>>you will be asked to log on.
>>Rightyho, I\'ve twigged what the problem is:
>>BookingGoto.pl doesn\'t set the cookie.
>>The obvious solution would be to stuff BookingGoto.pl
>>and put the Login::ensure directly into booking_form.pl.
>>(See any of the search/*Shortlist* scripts for an
>>example, or BookingGoto.pl itself.)
>Will,
>Unfortunately this not only doesn\'t work, but also messes up my
>dates for some unexplored reason.
>Any other (quick) suggestions?
The script now works (it\'s coming out of cgi-int) but it still asks
me to log in whenever I go through BookingGoto because the booking form
now checks that one is logged in, and I assume that it is picking up
the wrong cookie (from a different directory). I don\'t know how to stop
this off-hand, but will investigate if no-one tells me that they know
how to do it quickly :-)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10689,'Wed Oct 28 11:20:25 1998','fixed',1,10498,'
>Krugs, can you sort out the below for chippy (mylesc@i-way.co.uk).
>Also, you missed the weather report header graphic from the last lot, and can you do me a couple:
>1) "Back" (Blue & grey triangle to the left)
>2) "Subscribe" (Blue & grey triangle to the right)
>Cheers
>Tim
>
>>Dear Kruger,
>>Could you create the following icons:
>>1) "Pay Deposit" - (Blue & grey triangle to the right)
>>booking confirmation
>>2) "Pay Balance" - (Blue & grey triangle to the right)
>>Travel Pack
>>3) "All Boards" or "List Boards" or "View Boards"
>>(blue "square") - Bulletin Board Search
>>6) "All Articles" (blue "square") - Posting
>>7) "Reply to posting" or "Reply"
>>(Blue & grey triangle to the right) - Posting
>>8) "Post message" or "Post"
>>(Blue & grey triangle to the right) - Posting Post & Bulletin Board
>>And we also need a "Bulletin Boards" header graphic
>>called bulletinboards_head.gif which I understand you are
>>already making.
>>Thanks,
>>Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10690,'Wed Oct 28 11:24:31 1998','kruger',1,0,'
Kruger is no longer on the automatic mailing list for this node (let me know if this works krugs).
Please be explicit when mailing him.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10691,'Wed Oct 28 11:26:41 1998','FIXED',1,10505,'
>>>
>>>the label that reads \'snow sports reports\'
>>>should read \'snow sport tips\'
>>>this was the wording in the original list
>>oops, sorry.
>>the deadline has been missed on this, so i was about to remove it from the menu anyway. this OK?
>Emmanuelle has arranged to use somebody elses content
>for both this and the weather section - so we can just link directly through
>and load it into the frameset. How does this sound?
>We will have the links on monday.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10692,'Wed Oct 28 11:27:41 1998','FIXED',1,10517,'
>Krugs,
>the button \'snow sport reports\' should read \'snow sport tips\'
>cheers
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10693,'Wed Oct 28 11:28:48 1998','FIXED',1,10542,'
>When you go to call management in the admin section, and click on \'View\' it takes you back to administrator login..
>
>ben j
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10694,'Wed Oct 28 11:29:51 1998','FIXED',1,10619,'
>>>>Ski Forager, is now up and has picture splitting implemented, hopefully decreasing load time.
>>>>Take a look and see...
>>>It\'s fab :) :) :)
>>how about a more interesting message than please wait.. (cos it still takes a while). Why don\'t you put the instructions up there as well, or do a brief intro.
>New intro added.
>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10695,'Wed Oct 28 11:30:40 1998','FIXED',1,10567,'
>>>Im sorry to dredge this up again, but there are still some problems with the
>>>price search.
>>>If you do a sequence of price searches for all the price ranges available, then
>>>you only get back a dozen or so properties in total - and there are now 100+
>>>properties with prices in the database.
>>>could we have a look at this again.
>>set your arrival date to, for instance, 28 January 1999
>>there are very few pricings in the db that cover October 98
>>Note to John---keep these coming, I\'m not SO confident that it works
>>right that I don\'t feel the need to try it out whenever you raise
>>a question ...
>I am soo confident that it works tooo, but I also tried it for 26/12/1998 and £201 - £500, and got "more than 50" results.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10696,'Wed Oct 28 11:31:30 1998','FIXED ...',2,10615,'
>>There are some inconsistencies around. Beside needing to remove
>>references to \'chalet\', we need to fix on a way to spell e-mail
>>(or, if you prefer, email).
>deffinitely \'email\' (like ecommerce, ebusiness and elephant), and please point out any \'chalets\' so they can be fixed
... at least for all the booking stuff
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10697,'Wed Oct 28 11:31:32 1998','FIXED',1,10576,'
>>OK, well I\'m getting my 7 results if I set the date to 2001
>>and I am not seeing the erroneous "50 or more"
>>GOD knows what can possibly have caused that ...
>If you are accusing me of doing a sneaky update to hide a bug that i introduced and you pointed out. then...
>I plead NOT GUILTY in the strongest terms, and suggest \'mlord, that it is late and the prosecution should perhaps have a little nap in order to refresh their clearly fading eyesight.
>Obviously after checking the timestamp on chaletsearchresults.pl
>:)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10698,'Wed Oct 28 11:32:44 1998','FIXED',2,10661,'
>When I was testing my booking, I tabbed right through property cost, also didn\'t have a property offered clicked, only one property available. Booking id=105/
>I got an error, which I couldn\'t reproduce,
>Just thought I\'d mention it anyway.
>Worked fine, other times though.
>Ben Janes
... until it can be reproduced
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10699,'Wed Oct 28 11:32:53 1998','booking offer rejection',23,0,'
in the booking offer rejection page - is there a way of going back to the previous form while preserving all the form contents. If /i use the \'back to previous\' link the form is cleared, and is I use the browser back button then Im taken back to the unconfirmed booking list page (although my browser does seem to melting down which may be a factor)
???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10700,'Wed Oct 28 11:33:31 1998','FIXED',2,10679,'
>when trying to submit a booking request with any of the mandatory fields empty
>I get:
>Error
>Undefined subroutine &Util::reject_form called at E:\iglu\cgi-int\booking\booking_form.pl line 372.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10701,'Wed Oct 28 11:45:11 1998','new booking text boxes',23,0,'
on the new booking admin form can we make the \'Comments to the customer\' and \'iglu comments\' text boxes a bit bigger?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10702,'Wed Oct 28 11:45:35 1998','FIXED',2,10686,'
>in the unconfirmed booking page - in the outbound and return travel details sections - the travel drop-downs dont have a \'none\' option.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10703,'Wed Oct 28 11:45:49 1998','FIXED',1,10655,'
>>>>is there anything to be gained - clarity wise - from shrinking the
>>>>search criteria labels down a point or two - and maybe even justifying
>>>>them to the right so they but up agin the boxes???? ??
>>>seconded
>>soorry, they are already size="2", and 1 is difficult to read for most people. We could loose the bold. comments?
>
>deboldening might help - hard to say untill you see it.
>What about the right justification?? any milage there?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10704,'Wed Oct 28 12:01:32 1998','FIXED???',2,10699,'
>in the booking offer rejection page - is there a way of going back to the previous form while preserving all the form contents. If /i use the \'back to previous\' link the form is cleared, and is I use the browser back button then Im taken back to the unconfirmed booking list page (although my browser does seem to melting down which may be a factor)
>???
John,
This was caused previously by an incorrect browser setting. If your cache
setting is "Check every time" (or similar) then the browser will re-fetch
every page from the server. If you set it to "Check once every session"
(or similar) then you will get the page from cache with the previously
entered details in it.
When I do the "save the offer" work this won\'t be an issue (but this
might not be done today...)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10705,'Wed Oct 28 12:04:48 1998','Re: new booking text boxes',2,10701,'
>on the new booking admin form can we make the \'Comments to the customer\' and \'iglu comments\' text boxes a bit bigger?
This is due to Nutscrape treating textareas inside tags in
an unpredictable way. On my mate\'s computer upstair (running the same
version of Netscape as me) the text box fills the width of the page. If
we make it any bigger then it make the page too wide.
We can leave it as it is, make the box wider (which means at least TimP
will see a badly formatted page) or we remove the font tags which will
mean that the box is in fixed width font (usually courier).
Let me know which you prefer
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10706,'Wed Oct 28 12:06:51 1998','FIXED',1,10668,'
>>>some probs here
>>>1. the kitchen photo is turning up twice
>>>2. the livingroom picture is not turning up
>>cool, fixed
>>>3. the location map isnt showing up (maybe this could go at the bottom of the stack)
>>this is a new one for me. how big are the pics? where should it go?
>at the moment the pic sizes are all over the place, but I guess they will be larger than average. So stick em at the bottom with the floor plans.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10707,'Wed Oct 28 12:09:31 1998','FIXED',1,10654,'
>in the price table these seems to be a time stamp \'00:00:00\'
>in all the date fields. Is this normal?
FIXED
>also
>how possible/desirable would it be to truncate the year display
>down to two chars? It might make a dense and complex block of
>information a tad easier to cognise...
possible, but not desireable. the perception of Y2K compliance is as important as actuall compliance. 2 digit dates remove any perception of compliance.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10708,'Wed Oct 28 12:13:29 1998','FIXED',1,10669,'
>>It\'s no problem at all, it will just work
>>AS LONG as you say 2000m rather than 2km
>ok - lets do it
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10709,'Wed Oct 28 12:20:12 1998','FIXED',1,10660,'
>typo in the blurb at the top of the page
>\'you preferred\' instead of \'your preferred\'
>also
>can we make the \'property shortlist\' header stand out a little more?
>Its getting lost and its not obvious where you are.
>(ideally perhaps the \'property search\' graphic header should be \'shortlist\' at this point - but...)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10710,'Wed Oct 28 12:20:51 1998','FIXED',1,10666,'
>I\'d introduced a fault in "tidying this up"
>due to a difference between the output of
>Postgres and that off Access ...
>sorry, fixed now, they should all look better
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10711,'Wed Oct 28 12:21:49 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: booking management',1,10685,'
>>>>another hypothetical...
>>>>when processing a booking how possible/likely is it to have , as well as the clear form and submit options, to have a save option that would save the currnt state of the form and flag it with a \'pending\' status and stick it in the unconfirmed booking list
>>>>??????????
>>>>(Ill completely understand if the answer is not at all)
>>>Very easy if we can get the graphic done.
>>>Thoughts?
>>dont quite understand what the graphic is for???
>>Im just thinking about the admin side
>>ie - the save button goes on the \'new booking\' page so that someone who
>>is processing the booking can save a half processed one and get back to it later.
>>the saved booking is than accessible from the \'unconfirmed booking\' page and is flagged as status - pending
>Sorry John, I was thinking of the Customer\'s Booking Form. Should have
>read the subject :-)
>This is more difficult on the Booking Offer form, but I\'ll see how we do
>for time and hope to get it done.
this has been added to the \'if time allows this week\' list
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10712,'Wed Oct 28 12:22:36 1998','FIXED',1,10675,'
>>will,
>>so you don\'t have nightmares:
>>the problem appears to be data related (getting several 100 property records), and therefor not too much worry. I do feel we need to limit the results though!
>I had a feeling that might be it, I realised shortly
>after you called that there was no limit ... something
>*will* have to be done about it, sorry.
>I just made dinner for my new flatmates, before
>discovering that one of them doesn\'t "work in a
>restaurant" as he claims---he\'s the chef!
>Luckily turned out OK.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10713,'Wed Oct 28 12:22:54 1998','FIXED',1,10678,'
>>>All of i-way appears to be down (including i-way.co.uk). will advise.
>>>tim
>>Aparently due to a power failure
>it\'s back now
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10714,'Wed Oct 28 12:23:39 1998','FIXED',1,10690,'
>Kruger is no longer on the automatic mailing list for this node (let me know if this works krugs).
>Please be explicit when mailing him.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10715,'Wed Oct 28 12:25:17 1998','Re: Re: new booking text boxes',1,10705,'
>>on the new booking admin form can we make the \'Comments to the customer\' and \'iglu comments\' text boxes a bit bigger?
>This is due to Nutscrape treating textareas inside tags in
>an unpredictable way. On my mate\'s computer upstair (running the same
>version of Netscape as me) the text box fills the width of the page. If
>we make it any bigger then it make the page too wide.
>We can leave it as it is, make the box wider (which means at least TimP
>will see a badly formatted page) or we remove the font tags which will
>mean that the box is in fixed width font (usually courier).
>Let me know which you prefer
Please remove the font tags, they only work (sort of !!?) in NS4 anyway
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10716,'Wed Oct 28 12:29:14 1998','Booking management - search by...',23,0,'
(I think I posted this already today - but it doesnt seem to have shown up anywhere??? ?)
in booking management - is it possible to search for a booking number (very usefull when
checking up on someone)
also
in unconfirmed booking - is it possible to search by status?
also
what order are these appearing in? I can find no obvious order
could they be ordered by date - with the most recent at the top??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10717,'Wed Oct 28 13:01:21 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: property details ski lift',23,10652,'
Please remove the \'ski lift at\' label from the property details page
and forget it ever existed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10718,'Wed Oct 28 13:13:56 1998','ACTION KRUGER',1,0,'
Krugs,
you didn\'t send me this one:
>7) "Reply to posting" or "Reply"
>(Blue & grey triangle to the right) - Posting
cheers
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10719,'Wed Oct 28 13:22:46 1998','property details bits and bobs',23,0,'
can we make some slight layout changes to the property details page?
1. the parking information has slid into the miscelanious section. Can we give it its own \'parking\' header?
2. can we change the \'sofabeds\' label to \'livingroom\'? (in the context of the \'sleeps\' section this makes sence)
also - can we take out the line space between the bedrooms and the livingroom (nee sofabeds) in the sleeps section?
3. for fields such as \'Town centre at\' and \'Food store at\' is it possible to lose the m (metres) if there is nothing in the field?
4. is it possible to move the whole \'Number of sleeps\' section to above the living room section (below baby accessories)?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10720,'Wed Oct 28 13:27:06 1998','Re: Booking management - search by...',2,10716,'
>(I think I posted this already today - but it doesnt seem to have shown up anywhere??? ?)
>in booking management - is it possible to search for a booking number (very usefull when
>checking up on someone)
>also
>in unconfirmed booking - is it possible to search by status?
>also
>what order are these appearing in? I can find no obvious order
>could they be ordered by date - with the most recent at the top??
You can order the bookings by all of these (and more!) by clicking
the hyperlink in the heading. Is this enough? If not, what exactly
do you mean by search in this context?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10721,'Wed Oct 28 13:28:49 1998','FIXED',2,10539,'
>>1) We do not display any transport information if no-one
>>asked for transport
>>2) We do not display any transfer information if no-one
>>asked for a transfer
>this would probably be the ideal solution - how much agro would it cause given...
>>Note that at the minute this will cause problems with
>>the Booking Offer form since you have to fill in ALL
>>fields!
The transport and tranfer details are now only required for
customers who have asked for transport or a transfer.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10722,'Wed Oct 28 13:37:37 1998','FIXED',2,10684,'
>in booking management / new booking, the \'Travel details requested\' section
>is a little out of whack. (check booking no 114)
>Place of departure has a date in it
>I think everything has been shifted one cell to the left - possibly because
>no place of departure was specified in the booking?????
Exactly. *!$% collapsing cells :-)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10723,'Wed Oct 28 13:45:44 1998','Re: Re: Booking management - search by...',23,10720,'
>You can order the bookings by all of these (and more!) by clicking
>the hyperlink in the heading. Is this enough? If not, what exactly
>do you mean by search in this context?
I was wondering what those links were for - der
however - the status link doesnt seem to work
and
would it be possible to have the dates in reverse order (most recent first)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10724,'Wed Oct 28 13:50:36 1998','Database changes',2,0,'
Ben,
Is there any chance of you doing those database changes I requested?
To remind you, I would like 2 new fields in BookCust:
SkipassCost - number
RqstInsType - link to Insurance_Type
I can\'t do the skipass or insurance stuff until this is done. Thanks.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10725,'Wed Oct 28 13:54:19 1998','bulletin boards',1,0,'
Please test these.
also,
chippy, can you check the graphics over. I\'ve not managed to uas all the gifs kruger sent, you know better what you had in mind
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10726,'Wed Oct 28 13:57:27 1998','FIXED',1,10717,'
>Please remove the \'ski lift at\' label from the property details page
>and forget it ever existed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10727,'Wed Oct 28 14:06:13 1998','FIXED',2,10715,'
>>>on the new booking admin form can we make the \'Comments to the customer\' and \'iglu comments\' text boxes a bit bigger?
>>This is due to Nutscrape treating textareas inside tags in
>>an unpredictable way. On my mate\'s computer upstair (running the same
>>version of Netscape as me) the text box fills the width of the page. If
>>we make it any bigger then it make the page too wide.
>>We can leave it as it is, make the box wider (which means at least TimP
>>will see a badly formatted page) or we remove the font tags which will
>>mean that the box is in fixed width font (usually courier).
>>Let me know which you prefer
>Please remove the font tags, they only work (sort of !!?) in NS4 anyway
I\'ve removed the tags around the booking stuff textareas (there
will be some on the bulletin boards.
The reason why they were appearing as different sizes
on 2 computers here is because one has the "Fixed width font" size set
differently to the other (and Netscape uses that as the basis for calculating
the width of the box even if you are not using a fixed width font in
the textarea). This means that these boxes might become too large for the
screen anywayn (if people alter the default size of the font),
but we don\'t really have control over this unless we use CSS.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10728,'Wed Oct 28 14:14:18 1998','FIXED',2,10723,'
>
>>You can order the bookings by all of these (and more!) by clicking
>>the hyperlink in the heading. Is this enough? If not, what exactly
>>do you mean by search in this context?
>
>I was wondering what those links were for - der
>however - the status link doesnt seem to work
>and
>would it be possible to have the dates in reverse order (most recent first)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10729,'Wed Oct 28 14:20:54 1998','booking request form',23,0,'
can the Place of departure box be a bit longer?
and
can the date to leave and date to return boxes also default to blank?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10730,'Wed Oct 28 14:25:43 1998','Re: Database changes',23,10724,'
>Ben,
>Is there any chance of you doing those database changes I requested?
>To remind you, I would like 2 new fields in BookCust:
> SkipassCost - number
> RqstInsType - link to Insurance_Type
>I can\'t do the skipass or insurance stuff until this is done. Thanks.
Ben isnt in today - its his graduation day.
He tried to do it yesterday but couldnt get the damn thing unlocked.
Tim mentioned that you (someone) might be able to do it with a devious SQL statement...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10731,'Wed Oct 28 14:33:11 1998','FIXED',1,10719,'
>can we make some slight layout changes to the property details page?
>1. the parking information has slid into the miscelanious section. Can we give it its own \'parking\' header?
>2. can we change the \'sofabeds\' label to \'livingroom\'? (in the context of the \'sleeps\' section this makes sence)
>also - can we take out the line space between the bedrooms and the livingroom (nee sofabeds) in the sleeps section?
>3. for fields such as \'Town centre at\' and \'Food store at\' is it possible to lose the m (metres) if there is nothing in the field?
>4. is it possible to move the whole \'Number of sleeps\' section to above the living room section (below baby accessories)?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10732,'Wed Oct 28 14:36:43 1998','Re: Re: Database changes',1,10730,'
>>Ben,
>>Is there any chance of you doing those database changes I requested?
>>To remind you, I would like 2 new fields in BookCust:
>> SkipassCost - number
>> RqstInsType - link to Insurance_Type
>>I can\'t do the skipass or insurance stuff until this is done. Thanks.
>
>Ben isnt in today - its his graduation day.
>He tried to do it yesterday but couldnt get the damn thing unlocked.
>Tim mentioned that you (someone) might be able to do it with a devious SQL statement...
use the posql facility in the systems functions on the admin side eg:
ALTER TABLE customer ADD COLUMN selectdisplay LOGICAL
ask will about syntax for other types of field
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10733,'Wed Oct 28 14:45:27 1998','Re: bulletin boards',2,10725,'
>Please test these.
Will,
When I do a search for \'a\' I get:
Error
Sorting posting headers
Fetching posting headers
Can\'t locate object method "searchRatings" via package "PostingHits" at BoardUtil.pm line 226.
>also,
>chippy, can you check the graphics over. I\'ve not managed to uas all the gifs kruger sent, you know better what you had in mind
Kruger kindly sent more than one for some of them. No problem.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10734,'Wed Oct 28 14:47:38 1998','Re: bargains: early access release for comments',4,10642,'
now prettified a little, plus some hit lists limited
to avoid impression of a crash!
please test, this is intended to be the final form
NB still in cgi-BIN
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10735,'Wed Oct 28 15:05:03 1998','fixed',4,10733,'
>Can\'t locate object method "searchRatings" via package "PostingHits" at BoardUtil.pm line 226.
yeah it was meant to be searchRating ...
static typing, anyone?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10736,'Wed Oct 28 15:11:55 1998','booking request date validation',23,0,'
would it be possible to put some simple date validation on the booking request
ie
property arrival date < property departure date
date to leave < date to return
cross checking property and travel is difficult because of different peopel with different plans,
but maybe check that the property request is at least in the same year as the travel request
(or maybe same year + 1 to account for new year??)??
or not.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10737,'Wed Oct 28 15:15:09 1998','Re: fixed',4,10735,'
OK, OK the search has got somewhat broken at some point
have to go out for a bit, will look at later
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10738,'Wed Oct 28 15:32:58 1998','FIXED',1,10718,'
>Krugs,
>you didn\'t send me this one:
>>7) "Reply to posting" or "Reply"
>>(Blue & grey triangle to the right) - Posting
>cheers
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10739,'Wed Oct 28 15:48:29 1998','fixed',4,10737,'
>OK, OK the search has got somewhat broken at some point
>have to go out for a bit, will look at later
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10740,'Wed Oct 28 15:52:07 1998','booking admin dates and stuff',23,0,'
on the booking admin form is it possible to do the following:
1. fill the Outbound travel details - date of departure and transport boxes with the appropriate values from the booking request form
2. fill the Return travel details - date of departure and transport boxes with the appropriate values from the booking request form
also
it is theoretically possible from the booking data we have to calculate
the booking fee
the deposit
and the balance due date
thus:
booking fee = £5 x no of members in party
Deposit = (£) 30% of property cost + booking fees (if departure date more that 8 weeks from today, else deposit = full monty)
balance due date = departure date - 8 weeks
how much horror does this prospect generate?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10741,'Wed Oct 28 16:17:54 1998','group size search criteria',23,0,'
heres a thing
the group size search isnt bringing back any results if over 12 people because there arent any properties with total group size this big.
However there are hotela and apartments with large \'Total Sleeping Capacity\' values, that could house larger groups in tha same block but in different rooms.
So
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10742,'Wed Oct 28 16:25:46 1998','group size search criteria',23,0,'
heres a thing...
The group size search isnt bringing back any results if over 12 people because there arent any properties with total group size this big.
However there are hotels and apartments with large \'Total Sleeping Capacity\' values, that could house larger groups in tha same block but in different rooms.
So
how about - if the group size search is specified as anything over 12 then it searches the Total Sleeping Capacity field instead of the max group size, and iglu include in the property description for hotels and apartments that large groups can be accommodated in multiple rooms.
comments
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10743,'Wed Oct 28 16:57:29 1998','bargansrequest.pl',1,0,'
Will,
i\'m getting:
No records in customer with email=d@a.c
for a new email. can you fix please
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10744,'Wed Oct 28 17:43:46 1998','fixed',4,10743,'
>Will,
>i\'m getting:
>No records in customer with email=d@a.c
>for a new email. can you fix please
two steps forward one step back :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10745,'Wed Oct 28 17:47:27 1998','FIXED',2,10688,'
>>>>1) Go to the site (www.iglu.com)
>>>>2) Click "Your booking" and log on. you see the booking form
>>>>3) Click "Your Shortlist"
>>>>4) Click "Chalet shortlist"
>>>>you will be asked to log on.
>>>Rightyho, I\'ve twigged what the problem is:
>>>BookingGoto.pl doesn\'t set the cookie.
>>>The obvious solution would be to stuff BookingGoto.pl
>>>and put the Login::ensure directly into booking_form.pl.
>>>(See any of the search/*Shortlist* scripts for an
>>>example, or BookingGoto.pl itself.)
>>Will,
>>Unfortunately this not only doesn\'t work, but also messes up my
>>dates for some unexplored reason.
>>Any other (quick) suggestions?
>The script now works (it\'s coming out of cgi-int) but it still asks
>me to log in whenever I go through BookingGoto because the booking form
>now checks that one is logged in, and I assume that it is picking up
>the wrong cookie (from a different directory). I don\'t know how to stop
>this off-hand, but will investigate if no-one tells me that they know
>how to do it quickly :-)
Seems to work now (not fixed by me)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10746,'Wed Oct 28 17:48:05 1998','FIXED',2,10729,'
>
>can the Place of departure box be a bit longer?
>and
>can the date to leave and date to return boxes also default to blank?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10747,'Wed Oct 28 17:50:35 1998','FIXED',2,10736,'
>would it be possible to put some simple date validation on the booking request
>ie
>property arrival date < property departure date
>date to leave < date to return
Done
>cross checking property and travel is difficult because of different peopel with different plans,
>but maybe check that the property request is at least in the same year as the travel request
>(or maybe same year + 1 to account for new year??)??
>or not.
I\'ve not done any other checking...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10748,'Wed Oct 28 18:15:56 1998','purge',23,0,'
It strikes me that we need a way to delete old booking records - lest the bookings lists become unruley
Simple solution seems to be a delete button on the booking details form
and maybe also a delete button on the booking lists (with confirm of sourse)
any thoughts?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10749,'Wed Oct 28 19:34:33 1998','Re: booking admin dates and stuff',2,10740,'
>also
>it is theoretically possible from the booking data we have to calculate
>the booking fee
>the deposit
>and the balance due date
>thus:
>booking fee = £5 x no of members in party
>Deposit = (£) 30% of property cost + booking fees (if departure date more that 8 weeks from today, else deposit = full monty)
>balance due date = departure date - 8 weeks
>
>how much horror does this prospect generate?
Not as much as pricing the property initially does! How do you want this
done? Is there an algorithm for this or should we fill in a best guess
and hope that Iglu check it before sending out the booking offer?
Sorry if you covered this ground with the price searching, but I can\'t
find a clear statement for any pricing equation.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10750,'Wed Oct 28 19:48:33 1998','Re: booking admin dates and stuff',2,10740,'
>also
>it is theoretically possible from the booking data we have to calculate
>the booking fee
>the deposit
>and the balance due date
>thus:
>booking fee = £5 x no of members in party
>Deposit = (£) 30% of property cost + booking fees (if departure date more that 8 weeks from today, else deposit = full monty)
>balance due date = departure date - 8 weeks
>
>how much horror does this prospect generate?
I\'ve just thought - we would need to make this a two step process
because we need to know which property to calculate the costs.
We could pre-fetch all the property prices and calculate the costs
automatically using javascript, for definitely not before Friday :-)
I assume that this would not be a problem...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10751,'Wed Oct 28 19:52:29 1998','property search results order',23,0,'
because there are several instances of the same property with different pricing structures
if you run a general search without pricing you get a set of results with the same property recurring many times (different prices).
While this is technically correct - it might be a bit frustrating for the user.
so
any thoughts as to how this could be enhanced?
Tim suggested that we randomise the results a bit
any advance on this???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10752,'Wed Oct 28 19:54:18 1998','property search catering type',23,0,'
in the catering type drop down there an option called \'optional\'
can we get rid of it?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10753,'Wed Oct 28 20:00:41 1998','property search booking period',23,0,'
in the booking period there are options for \'full week\', \'saturday to saturday\' and \'sunday to sunday\'
but
it seems that the \'full week\' option should (in an ideal world) include the \'saturday to saturday\' and \'sunday to sunday\' options
(ie the latters are examples of the former)
is there a very simple way of doing this??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10754,'Wed Oct 28 20:26:31 1998','edit property',23,0,'
in edit property - all the links to look up management eg edit Property Status
produce
\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\administration\table.pl\' script produced no output
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10755,'Wed Oct 28 20:31:52 1998','property search issue',23,0,'
you know how - if a property is booked at a certain time and you run a search for that time and the property doesnt appear in the results...
well, this becomes problematic for hotels and appartments that have multiple instances of the same room (ie it looks like if one room is boked they are all booked)
so - the simplest solution is to take out the check for booked properties, and show everything whether its booked or not.
can we do this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10756,'Wed Oct 28 20:40:02 1998','property and resort status fields',23,0,'
in the property and resort tables there are a couple of fields called \'status\'
which - to my and iglus knowledge - are not being used for anything. (the property status does have \'booked / not booked\' options in the drop-down, but they are a legacy from way back and utterly meaningless)
What would be a useful function would be the ability to flag a propert or resort as
\'published\' or \'not published\' - so that if it is published it does show up in a search and if not it doesnt.
1. is this possible?
2. if this is possible, can we default all the properties and resorts that are currently in the database as \'published\' so that they still show up?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10757,'Wed Oct 28 20:42:35 1998','Re: property search results order',23,10751,'
>
>because there are several instances of the same property with different pricing structures
>if you run a general search without pricing you get a set of results with the same property recurring many times (different prices).
>While this is technically correct - it might be a bit frustrating for the user.
>so
>any thoughts as to how this could be enhanced?
>Tim suggested that we randomise the results a bit
>any advance on this???
actually this idea has been broadly well met by iglu for a variety of reasons
how hard is it to do?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10758,'Wed Oct 28 20:45:59 1998','naradai mo naradai mo naradai',23,0,'
there may be a few things in booking management that I havent been able to flag because Ive been forbidden from going in there
they may turn up tomorrow...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10759,'Wed Oct 28 21:22:27 1998','Re: Re: property search results order',4,10757,'
>actually this idea has been broadly well met by iglu for a variety of reasons
>how hard is it to do?
the simplest and most efficient thing would be to give
each property a `displayorder\' which was in practice set
to a hash of its id ... then it would suffice to put
ORDER BY that in all the queries (I have checked that
you can do this for the offline search as well)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10760,'Wed Oct 28 21:24:26 1998','Re: property search issue',4,10755,'
>you know how - if a property is booked at a certain time and you run a search for that time and the property doesnt appear in the results...
>well, this becomes problematic for hotels and appartments that have multiple instances of the same room (ie it looks like if one room is boked they are all booked)
>so - the simplest solution is to take out the check for booked properties, and show everything whether its booked or not.
>can we do this?
call me stupid but will that not just move the problem
on a different screen ... ?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10761,'Wed Oct 28 21:25:45 1998','Re: naradai mo naradai mo naradai',4,10758,'
>there may be a few things in booking management that I havent been able to flag because Ive been forbidden from going in there
>they may turn up tomorrow...
I\'ve decided to start using Paneris as a test machi
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10762,'Wed Oct 28 21:50:45 1998','please?',4,10455,'
>>The whole thing here is:
>>If I make the DB field unique, by indexing it, you would still have to check in your Perl scripts, that the entered grouplogin was unique, and did not exist in the DB already.
This was an old discussion---
I think it would be sensible to make the fields we are
treating as unique keys actually unique in the underlying
database, specifically talking here about the customer
email.
As it is the scripts do on the one hand check for email
existence before trying introduce the same one again---
they have to do that in any case, as you say---
but they also do a sanity check that there really is only
answer when they do a lookup by email. The point here
is to guard against the confusion that can happen if
you get duplicate records which the computer `behind the
back\' of the users and administrators is treating as
interchangeable.
Because of historical testing reasons I have just got
"error: query by email returned more than one value".
I don\'t want to take these tests out but I don\'t think
we want customers to see error messages.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10763,'Wed Oct 28 22:00:48 1998','ChaletSearchResults.pl',4,0,'
I made a minor change to make `refine\' icon go away when
showing offline search hits
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10764,'Wed Oct 28 23:06:34 1998','booking',1,0,'
I have tested the booking system without incident.
I will put it all online first thing in the morning, and let you all know.
Chippy: I have changed bookingform.pl to use the sendmail in Util.pm
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10765,'Thu Oct 29 0:56:34 1998','Re: Re: property search issue',23,10760,'
>>you know how - if a property is booked at a certain time and you run a search for that time and the property doesnt appear in the results...
>>well, this becomes problematic for hotels and appartments that have multiple instances of the same room (ie it looks like if one room is boked they are all booked)
>>so - the simplest solution is to take out the check for booked properties, and show everything whether its booked or not.
>>can we do this?
>call me stupid but will that not just move the problem
>on a different screen ... ?
dont understand what you mean...maybe I have not been clear, or maybe Im missing something...
the problem as i see it is this
if a chalet is booked for a certain period then the sheer cunning of the coding causes it to disappear from all searches over that booking period. and this is how it should be.
However, if a hotel room is booked for a certain period then that room no longer appears in a search. The problem is that the hotel may have many instances of the same room still available.
So either we need a way of calculating how many rooms of a certain type a hotel has left, or we can just show all properties in the search results regardless of its booking status.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10766,'Thu Oct 29 9:27:16 1998','Re: booking',1,10764,'
You can now use booking management.
The new libs are all in cgi-int.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10767,'Thu Oct 29 12:01:11 1998','Re: booking admin dates and stuff',2,10740,'
>also
>it is theoretically possible from the booking data we have to calculate
>the booking fee
>the deposit
>and the balance due date
>thus:
>booking fee = £5 x no of members in party
>Deposit = (£) 30% of property cost + booking fees (if departure date more that 8 weeks from today, else deposit = full monty)
>balance due date = departure date - 8 weeks
>
>how much horror does this prospect generate?
Another thought: If we book within 8 weeks the deposit will not include
the travel/insurance etc. Is that OK?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10768,'Thu Oct 29 12:04:01 1998','Login',2,0,'
When I try to logon I get:
Error
Query SELECT * FROM booking WHERE grouplogin = 116:
[-3030] [116] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10769,'Thu Oct 29 13:46:54 1998','Re: Re: booking admin dates and stuff',23,10767,'
>>also
>>it is theoretically possible from the booking data we have to calculate
>>the booking fee
>>the deposit
>>and the balance due date
>>thus:
>>booking fee = £5 x no of members in party
>>Deposit = (£) 30% of property cost + booking fees (if departure date more that 8 weeks from today, else deposit = full monty)
>>balance due date = departure date - 8 weeks
>>
>>how much horror does this prospect generate?
>Another thought: If we book within 8 weeks the deposit will not include
>the travel/insurance etc. Is that OK?
thats ok - deposit is just booking fee + 30% of property cost
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10770,'Thu Oct 29 14:02:33 1998','Re: Re: booking admin dates and stuff',23,10750,'
>I\'ve just thought - we would need to make this a two step process
>because we need to know which property to calculate the costs.
>We could pre-fetch all the property prices and calculate the costs
>automatically using javascript, for definitely not before Friday :-)
>I assume that this would not be a problem...
this has just started to look uglier than I had anticipated - lets rethink it (back burner)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10771,'Thu Oct 29 14:46:59 1998','call management',23,0,'
could we have the same \'order by\' functions on the call management list headers as we have in booking management?
(also - the bug is still in the \'view\' link
\'Error
This script expects _iglu_object=callrequest-\')
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10772,'Thu Oct 29 14:49:22 1998','call management purge',23,0,'
can we also have a delete button in call management (like were gonna have in booking management)?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10773,'Thu Oct 29 15:52:42 1998','database alert 15:50',23,0,'
the server has reappeared and Ben is taking the opportunity to upload some chenges
please stay off for a few minutes -- will repost when clear
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10774,'Thu Oct 29 16:03:18 1998','Re: SkiForager',3,10330,'
It is really nice.
Would it be an easy matter to judge which direction the user
is dragging the slider (skiier) and reverse the icon if going back?
yours
timP
(Lurker)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10775,'Thu Oct 29 16:05:48 1998','redirection and cookies',4,0,'
it turns out that you can redirect and set cookie
at the same time
IgluPage.pm changed to do this if
you return { redirect => ..., cookie => ... }
should reduce number of superfluous challenges made
by booking scripts
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10776,'Thu Oct 29 16:20:04 1998','database alert over',23,0,'
Ben Janes has left the database
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10777,'Thu Oct 29 16:39:53 1998','FIXED',2,10768,'
>When I try to logon I get:
>Error
>Query SELECT * FROM booking WHERE grouplogin = 116:
>[-3030] [116] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression."
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10778,'Thu Oct 29 17:11:29 1998','bulletin boards',23,0,'
the \'all articles\' link doesnt work from within a followup
(but otherwise its looking splendid)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10779,'Thu Oct 29 17:34:27 1998','Re: kruger',3,10690,'
>Kruger is no longer on the automatic mailing list for this node (let me know if this works krugs).
>Please be explicit when mailing him.
I have taken Kruger off the messageboards.
(The way to do this is to go to Other Functions
at the Iglu node and modify the messageboard template AND
the message template).
yours
TimP
(Lurker)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10780,'Thu Oct 29 17:36:52 1998','FIXED',2,10732,'
>>>Ben,
>>>Is there any chance of you doing those database changes I requested?
>>>To remind you, I would like 2 new fields in BookCust:
>>> SkipassCost - number
>>> RqstInsType - link to Insurance_Type
>>>I can\'t do the skipass or insurance stuff until this is done. Thanks.
>>
>>Ben isnt in today - its his graduation day.
>>He tried to do it yesterday but couldnt get the damn thing unlocked.
>>Tim mentioned that you (someone) might be able to do it with a devious SQL statement...
>use the posql facility in the systems functions on the admin side eg:
>ALTER TABLE customer ADD COLUMN selectdisplay LOGICAL
>ask will about syntax for other types of field
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10781,'Thu Oct 29 18:21:45 1998','Re: Re: SkiForager',23,10774,'
>It is really nice.
>Would it be an easy matter to judge which direction the user
>is dragging the slider (skiier) and reverse the icon if going back?
unfortunately not totally trivial - but I agree thats where it should be going
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10782,'Thu Oct 29 18:29:42 1998','property details',23,0,'
the living room picture still isnt showing up
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10783,'Thu Oct 29 18:32:19 1998','property details spelling',23,0,'
it turns out that the exotically named Terrasse is in fact a Terrace
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10784,'Thu Oct 29 18:40:40 1998','property search location box',23,0,'
since some really long resort names went in teh database the location box
has swelled to pantegrulean proportions and has distorted the page width
causing unsightly horizontal scroll bars to emerge.
Can we force the size of the box or shall we limit the length of resort names?
(is it even this that is the cause?? - the plot thins...)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10785,'Thu Oct 29 20:56:38 1998','promotions',1,0,'
All,
this system is now in place, it\'s a bit complex, but works (and is logical if you think hard about it).
Will - 1 problem,
I am registering with unreasonable expectations, running a search and I don\'t appear on the \'unmatched list\' can you look at this please.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10786,'Thu Oct 29 20:58:17 1998','FIXED',1,10327,'
>Dan / John, please call me to discuss all of this.
>TimJ
>>Bit of a ramble, sorry---just that I can\'t immediately
>>see a clean and useful solution!
>>
>>Oyster\'s plan
>>-------------
>>Here is my understanding of how Oyster envisaged this would work:
>>The customer registers details of what they want (flowchart #5). They
>>have to reply to a verification email in order that we know the
>>address is correct.
>>The `pricing\' table includes an extra "promotion" flag (flowchart #75).
>>The server runs essentially batch job which does a restricted property
>>search on all the customers\' bargains preferences, hitting only on
>>pricings marked as promotions.
>>Hits are automatically mailed to the customer in the form of a URL
>>which is specific to that mailing. The system records the date the
>>match was found/mail sent out, and notes the date when the customer
>>follows the link to look at the proposed bargain. Finally it notes
>>when the customer actually books the property.
>>Flowchart screen #70 lists all the promotional mailings which have
>>been sent, and the dates on which the hoped-for followup events
>>(viewing/booking) occurred for that particular mail. This is purely
>>informational---everything happens automatically.
>>
>>Modified plan
>>-------------
>>In discussion with Tim I agreed that this was probably more
>>complicated than Iglu want in two ways: (1) we don\'t want to have to
>>go to the trouble of entering/removing "promotional" pricing deals, so
>>the bargains search will be identical to a normal property search; (2)
>>we don\'t want to have to handle confirmation emails or risk sending
>>automatic spam, and would rather all mails were sent or at least OK\'d
>>manually. I would add (3) it\'s not really clear what Iglu are going
>>to do with the spam-response tracking data apart from ask it to go
>>away and stop cluttering their screen!
>>One question is: if we make the bargain request basically an offline
>>property search, then is it not redundant? It isn\'t, in fact, because
>>it\'s a way of gathering sales/marketing info, but maybe we will have
>>to be more honest about what it is doing.
>>More seriously: what do we do when it returns a large number of
>>hits? We can\'t email a message with "the first fifty ``bargains\'\'
>>which matched your criteria were ...", because that turns it straight
>>back into an online search. We can\'t have operators filter it
>>manually because there is no other information on which they can do
>>that.
>>
>>Questions
>>---------
>>I conclude that we should either implement Oyster\'s scheme in full, or
>>explicitly turn this into a "please do a search and email me updated
>>results every little while" feature.
>>Implementing Oyster\'s scheme would mean Iglu actually doing something
>>about pricing promotions. If it was to be fully automated we would
>>have to get access to incoming email for confirmation
>>purposes---otherwise we are in danger of spamming people.
>>Doing an `updating search\' would be a little expensive to implement
>>because it will have to remember all the hits from last time it ran so
>>that it can compute what the new hits are this time. That\'s a
>>significant fraction of number-of-customers times number-of-properties
>>records, since we don\'t benefit from the drastic pruning introduced by
>>the "promotional pricing" filter. Perhaps more seriously it\'s not
>>clear that anyone would really find it useful.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10787,'Thu Oct 29 21:30:25 1998','FIXED',1,10428,'
>the promotions page
>(ie the page immediately behind the \'promotions link - not the bargains stuff)
>will not now be the dynamic page as depicted in the oyster spec (page 5)
>Instead it will be a static page containing mainly text (maybe the odd picture)
>I will get some sample content today ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10788,'Thu Oct 29 21:32:17 1998','FIXED',1,10618,'
>>In call management when I click on View, I get:
>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\Call.pl\' script produced no output
>please try again, it works from me (i have just fixed a little thing that may have fixed this)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10789,'Thu Oct 29 21:32:42 1998','FIXED',1,10638,'
>
>Im getting ski lift distanced like - 516.666666666667m
>eg
>in Suite Hotel (AS 2p), La Massana, Andorra
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10790,'Thu Oct 29 21:33:28 1998','FIXED',1,10734,'
>now prettified a little, plus some hit lists limited
>to avoid impression of a crash!
>please test, this is intended to be the final form
>NB still in cgi-BIN
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10791,'Thu Oct 29 21:34:04 1998','FIXED',1,10650,'
>Lots has been added in cgi-bin/*.pm and cgi-bin/bargs,
>otherwise little has changed.
>Main things I noticed:
>as said on phone, shortlists seem have got confused
>between do_ and non-do_ at some point recently
>also Login.pm: it\'s now supposed to work with grouplogin
>in the cookie not booking.id, but this also has got
>stomped or whatever
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10792,'Thu Oct 29 21:35:02 1998','FIXED',1,10664,'
>>When I enter promotions, I enter my email,
>>It came back with some stuff about me. I edited some of it, then clicked submit.
>>I got this Error message:
>>Invalid email address `$!email\': shouldn\'t be seeing this
>Use the links I posted this afternoon.
>The link from the site goes to cgi-int but there is
>only one templates directory.
>Tim is doing a merge so the difference will not persist.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10793,'Thu Oct 29 21:35:58 1998','FIXED',1,10683,'
>>All,
>>Today is the last day for reporting enhancements and features for the iglu.com system. Except for in the areas of Promotions and Ecommerce, both of which are outstanding and hopefully will be delivered today.
>>Obviously all bugs will continue to be fixed.
>>comments?
>There are a few things filtering through
>Ill weed them and post them asap
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10794,'Thu Oct 29 21:36:25 1998','FIXED',1,10682,'
>will,
>has this disapeared? if so, why?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10795,'Thu Oct 29 21:37:22 1998','FIXED',1,10687,'
>in the unconfirmed booking page - is it possible to calculate the Property Cost for the booking directly , and stick it in the \'Property Cost\' box???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10796,'Thu Oct 29 22:07:00 1998','FIXED',1,10742,'
>
>heres a thing...
>The group size search isnt bringing back any results if over 12 people because there arent any properties with total group size this big.
>However there are hotels and apartments with large \'Total Sleeping Capacity\' values, that could house larger groups in tha same block but in different rooms.
>So
>how about - if the group size search is specified as anything over 12 then it searches the Total Sleeping Capacity field instead of the max group size, and iglu include in the property description for hotels and apartments that large groups can be accommodated in multiple rooms.
>comments
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10797,'Thu Oct 29 22:07:53 1998','FIXED',1,10741,'
>
>heres a thing
>the group size search isnt bringing back any results if over 12 people because there arent any properties with total group size this big.
>However there are hotela and apartments with large \'Total Sleeping Capacity\' values, that could house larger groups in tha same block but in different rooms.
>So
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10798,'Thu Oct 29 22:11:22 1998','ACTION JOHN: property search results order',1,10759,'
>>actually this idea has been broadly well met by iglu for a variety of reasons
>>how hard is it to do?
>the simplest and most efficient thing would be to give
>each property a `displayorder\' which was in practice set
>to a hash of its id ... then it would suffice to put
>ORDER BY that in all the queries (I have checked that
>you can do this for the offline search as well)
This means that the results will be returned in a fixed random order (the same order each time), Is this what is intended? We can provide a function that allows the results to be mixed up on demand (say once per week).
APR - thoughts?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10799,'Thu Oct 29 22:13:02 1998','FIXED',1,10752,'
>
>in the catering type drop down there an option called \'optional\'
>can we get rid of it?
certainly - through the admin system -> look-up -> catering types
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10800,'Thu Oct 29 22:18:37 1998','deleting bookings',23,0,'
There is a bit of a problem when it comes to deleting bookings
In data management / bookings - go into a booking and hit the delete button
I get this page
\'Sorry, the database could not be updated, due to the following fields relating to this record. If you would like delete this
record, please amend these records first:\'
then a list of records in the \'property shortlist\' and \'customer / booking\' tables.
OK - firstly
when clicking the \'edit\' link for these records - Im getting
\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\administration\edit.pl\' script produced no output
But Also
is there any way of circumventing this extreamly labourious process
of manually deleting every record relating to the booking before I can delete the booking?
This is going to make the delete function practically unusable especially if (like now)
there are many many bookings to be deleted)????
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10801,'Thu Oct 29 22:41:55 1998','FIXED',1,10753,'
>
>in the booking period there are options for \'full week\', \'saturday to saturday\' and \'sunday to sunday\'
>but
>it seems that the \'full week\' option should (in an ideal world) include the \'saturday to saturday\' and \'sunday to sunday\' options
>(ie the latters are examples of the former)
>is there a very simple way of doing this??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10802,'Thu Oct 29 22:46:40 1998','FIXED',1,10754,'
>
>in edit property - all the links to look up management eg edit Property Status
>produce
>\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\administration\table.pl\' script produced no output
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10803,'Thu Oct 29 22:47:55 1998','Re: ACTION JOHN: property search results order',23,10798,'
>>>actually this idea has been broadly well met by iglu for a variety of reasons
>>>how hard is it to do?
>>the simplest and most efficient thing would be to give
>>each property a `displayorder\' which was in practice set
>>to a hash of its id ... then it would suffice to put
>>ORDER BY that in all the queries (I have checked that
>>you can do this for the offline search as well)
>This means that the results will be returned in a fixed random order (the same order each time), Is this what is intended? We can provide a function that allows the results to be mixed up on demand (say once per week).
>APR - thoughts?
I think a fixed random order would be ok. The aim is to pervent getting
results pages full of the same hotel or apartment, so if it does that its a winner.
It would be nice to have the randomize function - in the interest of fareness...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10804,'Thu Oct 29 22:50:55 1998','Re: call management',1,10771,'
>
>could we have the same \'order by\' functions on the call management list headers as we have in booking management?
Umm, it\'s bit of work. The alternate sorts are not there as we didn\'t feel that any of the other fields (apart from date/time desc) are sensible to order by.
This list will not grow very big as answered calls are not shown, is a sort really necessary?
>(also - the bug is still in the \'view\' link
>\'Error
>This script expects _iglu_object=callrequest-\')
Fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10805,'Thu Oct 29 22:54:04 1998','ACTION WILLIAM: property search results order',1,10803,'
>>>>actually this idea has been broadly well met by iglu for a variety of reasons
>>>>how hard is it to do?
>>>the simplest and most efficient thing would be to give
>>>each property a `displayorder\' which was in practice set
>>>to a hash of its id ... then it would suffice to put
>>>ORDER BY that in all the queries (I have checked that
>>>you can do this for the offline search as well)
>>This means that the results will be returned in a fixed random order (the same order each time), Is this what is intended? We can provide a function that allows the results to be mixed up on demand (say once per week).
>>APR - thoughts?
>I think a fixed random order would be ok. The aim is to pervent getting
>results pages full of the same hotel or apartment, so if it does that its a winner.
>It would be nice to have the randomize function - in the interest of fareness...
fairness is what I was thinking about, we will provide a randomize function
Will - can you please write this (add it to management->system, and give me a shout before you change chaletsearch.pl and .pm
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10806,'Thu Oct 29 23:02:19 1998','Re: Re: Re: property search issue',1,10765,'
>>>you know how - if a property is booked at a certain time and you run a search for that time and the property doesnt appear in the results...
>>>well, this becomes problematic for hotels and appartments that have multiple instances of the same room (ie it looks like if one room is boked they are all booked)
>>>so - the simplest solution is to take out the check for booked properties, and show everything whether its booked or not.
>>>can we do this?
>>call me stupid but will that not just move the problem
>>on a different screen ... ?
>dont understand what you mean...maybe I have not been clear, or maybe Im missing something...
>the problem as i see it is this
>if a chalet is booked for a certain period then the sheer cunning of the coding causes it to disappear from all searches over that booking period. and this is how it should be.
>However, if a hotel room is booked for a certain period then that room no longer appears in a search. The problem is that the hotel may have many instances of the same room still available.
>So either we need a way of calculating how many rooms of a certain type a hotel has left, or we can just show all properties in the search results regardless of its booking status.
i think it is a good idea to stop most booked properties from being picked up by the search as otherwise many search results are going to be of no relevance to the customer.
we could therefor mark properties that are allowed to be booked more than once and prevent the booked check if this flag is set (for hotels etc)
how does this sound?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10807,'Thu Oct 29 23:07:10 1998','fixed',4,10785,'
>Will - 1 problem,
>I am registering with unreasonable expectations, running a search and I don\'t appear on the \'unmatched list\' can you look at this please.
was due to DBI::W32ODBC cursed single-cursor bug
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10808,'Thu Oct 29 23:11:08 1998','Re: ACTION WILLIAM: property search results order',4,10805,'
>fairness is what I was thinking about, we will provide a randomize function
>Will - can you please write this (add it to management->system, and give me a shout before you change chaletsearch.pl and .pm
OK, to clarify:
we are having a fixed random order?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10809,'Thu Oct 29 23:14:33 1998','Re: property and resort status fields',1,10756,'
>
>in the property and resort tables there are a couple of fields called \'status\'
>which - to my and iglus knowledge - are not being used for anything. (the property status does have \'booked / not booked\' options in the drop-down, but they are a legacy from way back and utterly meaningless)
>What would be a useful function would be the ability to flag a propert or resort as
>\'published\' or \'not published\' - so that if it is published it does show up in a search and if not it doesnt.
>1. is this possible?
yes and very sensible
>2. if this is possible, can we default all the properties and resorts that are currently in the database as \'published\' so that they still show up?
they will all been set to published
it should be noted that resorts that are not published will still be accessable through the property search if there are properties that are published in the non published resort.
also properties that end up on shortlists, bookings and promotions will continue to appear through those functions even if the status is subsequently set to not published
what i guess i am saying is:
i\'m only going to change the searches (and resort->chalet lists etc)
is this OK?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10810,'Thu Oct 29 23:15:52 1998','FIXED',1,10761,'
>>there may be a few things in booking management that I havent been able to flag because Ive been forbidden from going in there
>>they may turn up tomorrow...
>I\'ve decided to start using Paneris as a test machi
will will consider sympatheticall all enhancements requested in this area on Thursday (49 mins left :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10811,'Thu Oct 29 23:16:22 1998','FIXED',1,10763,'
>I made a minor change to make `refine\' icon go away when
>showing offline search hits
me too :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10812,'Thu Oct 29 23:16:41 1998','FIXED',1,10766,'
>You can now use booking management.
>The new libs are all in cgi-int.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10813,'Thu Oct 29 23:17:25 1998','FIXED',1,10772,'
>
>can we also have a delete button in call management (like were gonna have in booking management)?
just set the calls to answered.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10814,'Thu Oct 29 23:17:41 1998','FIXED',1,10773,'
>the server has reappeared and Ben is taking the opportunity to upload some chenges
>please stay off for a few minutes -- will repost when clear
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10815,'Thu Oct 29 23:20:40 1998','FIXED',1,10776,'
>Ben Janes has left the database
:)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10816,'Thu Oct 29 23:30:11 1998','ACTION WILL: bulletin boards',1,10778,'
>
>the \'all articles\' link doesnt work from within a followup
>(but otherwise its looking splendid)
didn\'t want to break things :o
Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10817,'Thu Oct 29 23:30:14 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: property search issue',23,10806,'
>>So either we need a way of calculating how many rooms of a certain type a hotel has left, or we can just show all properties in the search results regardless of its booking status.
>i think it is a good idea to stop most booked properties from being picked up by the search as otherwise many search results are going to be of no relevance to the customer.
>we could therefor mark properties that are allowed to be booked more than once and prevent the booked check if this flag is set (for hotels etc)
>how does this sound?
sounds very good - I was aiming for the simplest solution for deliverable purposes
how easy is this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10818,'Thu Oct 29 23:33:52 1998','FIXED',1,10782,'
>the living room picture still isnt showing up
sorry :(
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10819,'Thu Oct 29 23:37:02 1998','Re: Re: property and resort status fields',23,10809,'
>it should be noted that resorts that are not published will still be accessable through the property search if there are properties that are published in the non published resort.
>also properties that end up on shortlists, bookings and promotions will continue to appear through those functions even if the status is subsequently set to not published
>what i guess i am saying is:
>i\'m only going to change the searches (and resort->chalet lists etc)
>is this OK?
better than ok
the main aim is to stop empty resorts or half finished properties turning up in searches
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10820,'Thu Oct 29 23:37:30 1998','FIXED',1,10783,'
>it turns out that the exotically named Terrasse is in fact a Terrace
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10821,'Thu Oct 29 23:39:47 1998','Re: deleting bookings',23,10800,'
>is there any way of circumventing this extreamly labourious process
>of manually deleting every record relating to the booking before I can delete the booking?
>This is going to make the delete function practically unusable especially if (like now)
>there are many many bookings to be deleted)????
I may have over reacted a little here - coz once the broken link is fixed it will get easier.
But its still a bit of a schlep through the database to delete anything...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10822,'Thu Oct 29 23:42:33 1998','Re: property search location box',1,10784,'
>since some really long resort names went in teh database the location box
>has swelled to pantegrulean proportions and has distorted the page width
>causing unsightly horizontal scroll bars to emerge.
>Can we force the size of the box or shall we limit the length of resort names?
>(is it even this that is the cause?? - the plot thins...)
it is the cause, this is going to be easiest to fix by shortening the data.
OK?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10823,'Fri Oct 30 0:10:16 1998','Re: Re: ACTION WILLIAM: property search results order',4,10808,'
it\'s written, give us a shout when I can upload it
Here\'s the plan:
There is a new kind of datatype, called autorandom
That\'s really a float but it is set automatically at
record creation by AdministrationUpdate.pl to be,
simply, a random number
The actual value doesn\'t appear for editing on the
admin screens
All chalet searches are ORDER BYed that:
that is ChaletSearchResults.pl and BargainsSearchResults.pl.
oops, can\'t use the c-word!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10824,'Fri Oct 30 0:14:15 1998','Re: Re: deleting bookings',1,10821,'
>
>>is there any way of circumventing this extreamly labourious process
>>of manually deleting every record relating to the booking before I can delete the booking?
>>This is going to make the delete function practically unusable especially if (like now)
>>there are many many bookings to be deleted)????
>
>I may have over reacted a little here - coz once the broken link is fixed it will get easier.
>But its still a bit of a schlep through the database to delete anything...
the link is fixed,
the restrictions on delete were introduced deliberately (after consultation) to enforce data integrity and in preference to a \'cascading delete\' approach which was deemed too scary (especially when iglu had a habit of pressing delete by accident!)
i am reluctant to change this at this late stage.
for the bookings problem, i would like to introduce a new booking status of deleted, which will prevent the marked bookings from appearing in the booking management facility.
Thoughts?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10825,'Fri Oct 30 0:18:05 1998','Re: Re: Re: ACTION WILLIAM: property search results order',1,10823,'
>it\'s written, give us a shout when I can upload it
stick it in cgi-bin, i\'ll pick it up and test it.
>Here\'s the plan:
>There is a new kind of datatype, called autorandom
>That\'s really a float but it is set automatically at
>record creation by AdministrationUpdate.pl to be,
>simply, a random number
>The actual value doesn\'t appear for editing on the
>admin screens
why not? I feel it is useful to display all fields so that there is not difficulty seeing the true database data.
>All chalet searches are ORDER BYed that:
>that is ChaletSearchResults.pl and BargainsSearchResults.pl.
>oops, can\'t use the c-word!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10826,'Fri Oct 30 0:25:20 1998','text to go on the home page ',23,0,'
>also
theres a bit of text to go on the home page - its just being finalised
now - is that ok?
(another pint?)
actually two, as I\'m still waiting
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10827,'Fri Oct 30 0:28:28 1998','agreement',1,0,'
Dear Tim,
Enclose a revised draft which I hope covers it.
All the best
Dan
Hoop and APR are supplying the software used for the iglu.com website under 2 licences:
1) The generic libraries used are supplied under the LGPL (href link). All files covered by this licence will be identified as such at the top of the file. An example of a file covered under this clause is (link) Template.pm
2) Hoop and APR grant Iglu.com an exclusive licence to all other all other files, including graphics. An example of a file covered under this clause is (link) About_content.html
Hoop Ltd acknowledges that APR holds all rights to the Forager system and that Hoop Ltd will not use or duplicate this component of the application.
As part of the business agreement, Hoop Ltd undertake not to use the software developed for this project in order to provide web systems for competitors of Iglu.com in the holiday properties industry.
This agreement is designed to protect Iglu.com\'s investment (so that competitors of Iglu.com do not receive an unfair advantage) whilst allowing Hoop and APR to continue to use generic libraries supplied as part of the website for their ongoing business development.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10828,'Fri Oct 30 0:29:48 1998','Re: agreement',1,10827,'
>Dear Tim,
>Enclose a revised draft which I hope covers it.
>All the best
>Dan
>
>Hoop and APR are supplying the software used for the iglu.com website under 2 licences:
>1) The generic libraries used are supplied under the LGPL (href link). All files covered by this licence will be identified as such at the top of the file. An example of a file covered under this clause is (link) Template.pm
>2) Hoop and APR grant Iglu.com an exclusive licence to all other all other files, including graphics. An example of a file covered under this clause is (link) About_content.html
>Hoop Ltd acknowledges that APR holds all rights to the Forager system and that Hoop Ltd will not use or duplicate this component of the application.
>As part of the business agreement, Hoop Ltd undertake not to use the software developed for this project in order to provide web systems for competitors of Iglu.com in the holiday properties industry.
>This agreement is designed to protect Iglu.com\'s investment (so that competitors of Iglu.com do not receive an unfair advantage) whilst allowing Hoop and APR to continue to use generic libraries supplied as part of the website for their ongoing business development.
works for me. well done.
Chippy, Will?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10829,'Fri Oct 30 0:32:39 1998','archiving',1,0,'
please can we stop posting to this board while I archive it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10830,'Fri Oct 30 0:45:11 1998','Re: archiving',1,10829,'
>please can we stop posting to this board while I archive it.
this is now done, please continue to use.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10831,'Fri Oct 30 1:00:17 1998','fixed',4,10816,'
>>
>>the \'all articles\' link doesnt work from within a followup
>>(but otherwise its looking splendid)
>didn\'t want to break things :o
>Tim
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10832,'Fri Oct 30 1:05:03 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: ACTION WILLIAM: property search results order',4,10825,'
>stick it in cgi-bin, i\'ll pick it up and test it.
you want
cgi-bin/
pm_lib.pl
administration/
Administration.pl
search/
ChaletSearchResults.pl
bargs/
BargainsSearchResults.pl
NB it doesn\'t do anything yet cos I haven\'t randomized
the existing fields! :)
>>The actual value doesn\'t appear for editing on the
>>admin screens
>why not? I feel it is useful to display all fields so that there is not difficulty seeing the true database data.
OK, you asked for it!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10833,'Fri Oct 30 1:13:00 1998','Re: Re: Re: deleting bookings',23,10824,'
>the restrictions on delete were introduced deliberately (after consultation) to enforce data integrity and in preference to a \'cascading delete\' approach which was deemed too scary (especially when iglu had a habit of pressing delete by accident!)
>i am reluctant to change this at this late stage.
>for the bookings problem, i would like to introduce a new booking status of deleted, which will prevent the marked bookings from appearing in the booking management facility.
>Thoughts?
This elegantly solves the immediate problem, but wont there come a time when the redundant bookings comprise half the mass of the known universe?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10834,'Fri Oct 30 1:20:20 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ACTION WILLIAM: property search results order',4,10832,'
>you want
> administration/
> Administration.pl
who ever thought specials characters/quoting/escaping
were a good idea?
when did the first ESC find its way into teletype
protocols????
>NB it doesn\'t do anything yet cos I haven\'t randomized
>the existing fields! :)
does now, that\'s done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10835,'Fri Oct 30 1:20:31 1998','Re: text to go on the home page ',23,10826,'
>>also
>theres a bit of text to go on the home page - its just being finalised
>now - is that ok?
>(another pint?)
>actually two, as I\'m still waiting
iglu failed to give it to me today - though they do have a lot on their minds
Ill try to get it tomorrow...?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10836,'Fri Oct 30 1:28:11 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ACTION WILLIAM: property search results order',4,10834,'
>>NB it doesn\'t do anything yet cos I haven\'t randomized
>>the existing fields! :)
>does now, that\'s done
However you won\'t believe it because, by an incredible
quirk of fate, the randomization process has given
Alaska the absolutely lowest search order number!
So a "typical" search result set looks just the same
as it ever did ...
What were the odds on that?
(PS I truly didn\'t fix this, it just happened!)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10837,'Fri Oct 30 1:30:46 1998','Re: Re: agreement',4,10828,'
>Chippy, Will?
It seems very fair to me!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10838,'Fri Oct 30 1:51:44 1998','Re: Re: call management',23,10804,'
>>
>>could we have the same \'order by\' functions on the call management list headers as we have in booking management?
>Umm, it\'s bit of work. The alternate sorts are not there as we didn\'t feel that any of the other fields (apart from date/time desc) are sensible to order by.
>This list will not grow very big as answered calls are not shown, is a sort really necessary?
>>(also - the bug is still in the \'view\' link
>>\'Error
>>This script expects _iglu_object=callrequest-\')
>Fixed
fair play on the order thing
however
I dont know for sure - and I havent had any feed back from iglu - but it strikes me that we might need a way of viewing the answered calls
otherwise what is the \'call notes\' box for?
also
the \'previous\' link doesnt work (on page 2 of 2)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10839,'Fri Oct 30 2:08:01 1998','property search again',23,0,'
sorry to bang on but..
the labels on the property search boxes are still rather scrunchy and difficult to decipher.
Are you sure they cant come down a point (like in the booking form)? Maybe they could be bold again???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10840,'Fri Oct 30 2:37:13 1998','deleting properties',23,0,'
when deleting a property and you get to the dependency list and you select the \'edit\' link
you get
\'\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\administration\edit.pl\' script produced no output \'
again
(also
I know this is but a drop in the bucket we call priority but
if at some point in the distant future one should wish to delete a property,
and that property appears on 300 shortlists, you would have to delete all these shortlists first....
just an observation)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10841,'Fri Oct 30 2:51:26 1998','promotions',23,0,'
on the promotions page there is a \'add to shortlist\' and a \'book now\' button at the bottom...
what do they do??
As far as I can tell theres nothing to book or shortlist on this page.
am I missing something?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10842,'Fri Oct 30 2:57:52 1998','FIXED',2,10547,'
>>Also, I still do not know how to handle the ski passes.
>>Could you please spell out to a confused developer exactly
>>what we should do?
>after hours of fierce negotiation we have agreed the simplest possible solution
>In the booking request form we will ask anyone who wants a skipass
>to say so in the comments box. All the processing will then be done manually by iglu.
[snip]
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10843,'Fri Oct 30 2:58:44 1998','FIXED',2,10604,'
>>>>In the booking request form we need to also include an insurance request
>>>>the simplest form of this is a drop down containing the cover types
>>>>(as in the new booking admin page, but with a \'none\' option).
>>>>We need one of these for every party member on teh booking request.
>>>>This info then needs to appear in the new booking page so iglu can do the
>>>>calculations.
>>>
>>>BEN - We will need a new field on BookCust - a link to Insurance_Type
>>>called something like RsqtInsType.
>>We already have this field:
>>In the BookCust table we have:
>>InsType - Long Integer link to Insurance_Type
>>InsComp - Long Integer link to Company
>>InsCost - Single to represent cost of insurance
>>Ben.
>
>These fields are for the insurance offered by Iglu. We still
>need the new field (rqstInsType) so that Iglu know what kind
>of insurance to offer.
>>
>>>
>>>>Also
>>>>for legal reasons, and so iglu have their ass covered, there has to be a
>>>>check box for poeple who arent taking the iglu insurance, to state that they have
>>>>insurance from somewhere else.
>>>>if the user chooses no iglu insurance and fails to tick this box, then their
>>>>booking request is rejected.
>>>
>>>Does this mean that we do not need to store the value of the checkbox?
>>>If we do need to store this then we will need a new field in BookCust
>>>
>>>>how does this sound?
>>>>
>>>>There is some precise legal wording to go along with this, but I dont have it yet.
>>>>When I do - youll know about it.
>>>
>>>Great.
>>I have added a field:
>>NotIGLUIns to BookCust, this is true if they are taking their own insurance, false if they are taking Iglus insurance
>>
>>Ben
>Thanks
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10844,'Fri Oct 30 3:01:57 1998','Re: Re: Re: agreement',2,10837,'
>>Chippy, Will?
>It seems very fair to me!
Are we allowed a copy of the scripts ourselves, so long as we do
not use them to compete with Iglu?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10845,'Fri Oct 30 3:04:36 1998','FIXED',2,10457,'
You have to enter the number of each type of pass and the
total cost.
>>>Dear all,
>>>The Seafood spec shows users entering how many ski passes
>>>they would like after they have been offered a chalet/transport
>>>by Iglu.
>>I think the reason for this is that the booking request
>>is essentially an availability request and so only availability
>>critical information is included on the form.
>>As ski passes are always available theres no point in
>>asking for a ski pass if your chalet is already booked.
>OK, so we still want people to request ski passes AFTER the booking
>has been offered. The question then becomes "how do we know how much
>to charge for each pass type". The easiest way to do this is to have
>Iglu staff enter this data on the Booking Offer page. This will require
>the following fields in Booking:
>Cost1DyChld
>Cost1DyAdlt
>Cost6DyChld
>Cost6DyAdlt
>Cost7DyChld
>Cost7DyAdlt
>
>>>There are some problems with this, not least of
>>>which is that the price data in at least one skipass field
>>>is a range of dates.
>>pardon my brain, but I dont quite understand this...
>If the cost of a 1 day child ski pass is "497 F / 722 F"
>and the customer says that they want one, how much do we
>charge them?
>On a similar vein, if the cost is \'90\' what do we charge them?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10846,'Fri Oct 30 3:06:38 1998','FIXED',2,10775,'
>it turns out that you can redirect and set cookie
>at the same time
>IgluPage.pm changed to do this if
>you return { redirect => ..., cookie => ... }
>should reduce number of superfluous challenges made
>by booking scripts
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10847,'Fri Oct 30 3:07:28 1998','FIXED',2,10748,'
>
>It strikes me that we need a way to delete old booking records - lest the bookings lists become unruley
>Simple solution seems to be a delete button on the booking details form
>and maybe also a delete button on the booking lists (with confirm of sourse)
>any thoughts?
Transfered to another thread
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10848,'Fri Oct 30 3:10:56 1998','Re: Ecommerce',2,10276,'
The situation is now that the ecommerce is wired up.
There are a couple of small things which will be sorted
out tomorrow when Keith at Securetrading gets in.
At present all the confirmation e-mails are coming to
me instead of sales@iglu.com
Let me know when you want this changed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10849,'Fri Oct 30 9:19:57 1998','ACTION BEN:',1,10762,'
Is this sorted?
>>>The whole thing here is:
>>>If I make the DB field unique, by indexing it, you would still have to check in your Perl scripts, that the entered grouplogin was unique, and did not exist in the DB already.
>This was an old discussion---
>I think it would be sensible to make the fields we are
>treating as unique keys actually unique in the underlying
>database, specifically talking here about the customer
>email.
>As it is the scripts do on the one hand check for email
>existence before trying introduce the same one again---
>they have to do that in any case, as you say---
>but they also do a sanity check that there really is only
>answer when they do a lookup by email. The point here
>is to guard against the confusion that can happen if
>you get duplicate records which the computer `behind the
>back\' of the users and administrators is treating as
>interchangeable.
>Because of historical testing reasons I have just got
>"error: query by email returned more than one value".
>I don\'t want to take these tests out but I don\'t think
>we want customers to see error messages.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10850,'Fri Oct 30 9:21:02 1998','ACTION BEN: Newsletter Admin - Ideas needed',1,10545,'
Can I sign this off?
>>Admin, newsletter, couple of points,
>>i) When adding a story, with the Newsletter title in the list box, the same title doesn\'t come up, the first title comes up.
>this never worked, but seems like a good idea, so now does.
>>ii) It didn\'t let me insert this as a story...
>>Shattering Strike!!!
>> ||
>> ||
>> \/
>> __
>> / \
>>| | <--- Earth!!! ( If you believe
>>| | it, you\'ll
>> \__/ believe
>> anything.)
>>Shattering huh!!!
>>
>>You tell me, anything wrong with the chars used as ASCII graphics??
>Not for me, but access gives:
>Invalid use of vertical bars in query expression.
>It doesn\'t like pipes (or rather quaintly "vertical bars" :)
>You got any ideas of how to escape these. Is this really a problem (obviously apart from those great ASCII artists amoungst us)?
>>
>>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10851,'Fri Oct 30 9:21:50 1998','ACTION BEN: Miscelaneous Property Features',1,10556,'
Has this been done?
>we need to change the Miscelaneous Property Features field in the property table
>from text to memo.
>Ben will do this tomorrow when he performs his other occult practices
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10852,'Fri Oct 30 9:22:21 1998','ACTION BEN: Booking Errors, Nos 2 & 3',1,10671,'
>>Number 2.
>>When I had a deposit to pay of £250, I agreed in the final confimation before paying, in payment, the deposit had been reduced to: £.1 - slight problem here.
>This was for testing. Fixed
>>
>>Number 3.
>>The system allowed me to have a accomodation with price of £0, I could confirm etc.
>>
>>Ben janes
>Would you like me to check that the amount entered on the Booking Offer page
>is non-zero?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10853,'Fri Oct 30 9:32:03 1998','Re: Re: Re: call management',1,10838,'
>>>
>>>could we have the same \'order by\' functions on the call management list headers as we have in booking management?
>>Umm, it\'s bit of work. The alternate sorts are not there as we didn\'t feel that any of the other fields (apart from date/time desc) are sensible to order by.
>>This list will not grow very big as answered calls are not shown, is a sort really necessary?
>>>(also - the bug is still in the \'view\' link
>>>\'Error
>>>This script expects _iglu_object=callrequest-\')
>>Fixed
>fair play on the order thing
cool
>however
>I dont know for sure - and I havent had any feed back from iglu - but it strikes me that we might need a way of viewing the answered calls
>otherwise what is the \'call notes\' box for?
it is for making note whilst the call is being delt with. To tackle this properly iglu need a full scale call management system, this is not what we are providing, we are simply providing a callback request service. when the callback has been done, this system is not sofisticated enough to take things further. I would imagine that iglu would create a customer record if any action is to be taken following the callback.
>also
>the \'previous\' link doesnt work (on page 2 of 2)
wip
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10854,'Fri Oct 30 9:36:13 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: deleting bookings',1,10833,'
>This elegantly solves the immediate problem, but wont there come a time when the redundant bookings comprise half the mass of the known universe?
My thoughts:
data is expensive to collect and cheap to keep and you never know when you are going to need it. I would not delete these things like redundant bookings, but rather mark them as deleted, the data might genuinely be useful in the future.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10855,'Fri Oct 30 9:37:37 1998','Re: Re: text to go on the home page ',1,10835,'
>>>also
>>theres a bit of text to go on the home page - its just being finalised
>>now - is that ok?
>>(another pint?)
>>actually two, as I\'m still waiting
>iglu failed to give it to me today - though they do have a lot on their minds
>Ill try to get it tomorrow...?
ok, but i think that it will fall outside of scope of the project if it is not in today.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10856,'Fri Oct 30 9:39:30 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: agreement',1,10844,'
>>>Chippy, Will?
>>It seems very fair to me!
>Are we allowed a copy of the scripts ourselves, so long as we do
>not use them to compete with Iglu?
scripts:
yes, but we cannot licence them to anyone else as iglu has the exclusive licence.
libs:
yes.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10857,'Fri Oct 30 9:46:34 1998','Re: property search again',1,10839,'
>sorry to bang on but..
>the labels on the property search boxes are still rather scrunchy and difficult to decipher.
>Are you sure they cant come down a point (like in the booking form)? Maybe they could be bold again???
\'scrunchy\' ?
I am sure they cannot come down in size.
we had bold and you didn\'t like that eithier.
the labels will look a lot better when the resort names are shortened. overall I think it looks fine, and we should stop messing arround with it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10858,'Fri Oct 30 9:47:27 1998','Re: deleting properties',1,10840,'
>when deleting a property and you get to the dependency list and you select the \'edit\' link
>you get
>\'\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\administration\edit.pl\' script produced no output \'
>again
>
>(also
>I know this is but a drop in the bucket we call priority but
>if at some point in the distant future one should wish to delete a property,
>and that property appears on 300 shortlists, you would have to delete all these shortlists first....
>just an observation)
please see post on deleting bookings.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10859,'Fri Oct 30 9:49:41 1998','FIXED',1,10841,'
>on the promotions page there is a \'add to shortlist\' and a \'book now\' button at the bottom...
>what do they do??
>As far as I can tell theres nothing to book or shortlist on this page.
>am I missing something?
they allow you to book and shortlist the special offer!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10860,'Fri Oct 30 10:05:28 1998','booking login',23,0,'
something is going wrong with the booking login
when I try to create a new booking it takes me straight back to the login form
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10861,'Fri Oct 30 10:12:00 1998','live',1,0,'
we are live!!!!
new peocedures for changing files on the live site:
please get me to test all serious modifications before they are uploaded. \'serious\' is at your discression.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10862,'Fri Oct 30 10:15:43 1998','Re: FIXED ',23,10859,'
>>on the promotions page there is a \'add to shortlist\' and a \'book now\' button at the bottom...
>>what do they do??
>>As far as I can tell theres nothing to book or shortlist on this page.
>>am I missing something?
>they allow you to book and shortlist the special offer!
but nothing seems to appear in the shortlist (indeed what could?)
or am I missing something??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10863,'Fri Oct 30 10:15:44 1998','Re: FIXED ',23,10859,'
>>on the promotions page there is a \'add to shortlist\' and a \'book now\' button at the bottom...
>>what do they do??
>>As far as I can tell theres nothing to book or shortlist on this page.
>>am I missing something?
>they allow you to book and shortlist the special offer!
but nothing seems to appear in the shortlist (indeed what could?)
or am I missing something??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10864,'Fri Oct 30 10:16:08 1998','Re: FIXED',23,10859,'
>>on the promotions page there is a \'add to shortlist\' and a \'book now\' button at the bottom...
>>what do they do??
>>As far as I can tell theres nothing to book or shortlist on this page.
>>am I missing something?
>they allow you to book and shortlist the special offer!
but nothing seems to appear in the shortlist (indeed what could?)
or am I missing something??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10865,'Fri Oct 30 10:19:24 1998','Re: ACTION BEN: Booking Errors, Nos 2 & 3',20,10852,'
>>>Number 2.
>>>When I had a deposit to pay of £250, I agreed in the final confimation before paying, in payment, the deposit had been reduced to: £.1 - slight problem here.
>>This was for testing. Fixed
>>>
>>>Number 3.
>>>The system allowed me to have a accomodation with price of £0, I could confirm etc.
>>>
>>>Ben janes
>>Would you like me to check that the amount entered on the Booking Offer page
>>is non-zero?
Yes. Make life a bit easier I think.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10866,'Fri Oct 30 10:20:02 1998','promotions pic',23,0,'
there seems to be a broken picture on the promotions page
normal.jpg
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10867,'Fri Oct 30 10:21:24 1998','Re: ACTION BEN: Newsletter Admin - Ideas needed',20,10850,'
>Can I sign this off?
#
I think so.
>>>Admin, newsletter, couple of points,
>>>i) When adding a story, with the Newsletter title in the list box, the same title doesn\'t come up, the first title comes up.
>>this never worked, but seems like a good idea, so now does.
>>>ii) It didn\'t let me insert this as a story...
>>>Shattering Strike!!!
>>> ||
>>> ||
>>> \/
>>> __
>>> / \
>>>| | <--- Earth!!! ( If you believe
>>>| | it, you\'ll
>>> \__/ believe
>>> anything.)
>>>Shattering huh!!!
>>>
>>>You tell me, anything wrong with the chars used as ASCII graphics??
>>Not for me, but access gives:
>>Invalid use of vertical bars in query expression.
>>It doesn\'t like pipes (or rather quaintly "vertical bars" :)
>>You got any ideas of how to escape these. Is this really a problem (obviously apart from those great ASCII artists amoungst us)?
>>>
>>>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10868,'Fri Oct 30 10:23:33 1998','FIXED',20,10850,'
>Can I sign this off?
#
I think so.
>>>Admin, newsletter, couple of points,
>>>i) When adding a story, with the Newsletter title in the list box, the same title doesn\'t come up, the first title comes up.
>>this never worked, but seems like a good idea, so now does.
>>>ii) It didn\'t let me insert this as a story...
>>>Shattering Strike!!!
>>> ||
>>> ||
>>> \/
>>> __
>>> / \
>>>| | <--- Earth!!! ( If you believe
>>>| | it, you\'ll
>>> \__/ believe
>>> anything.)
>>>Shattering huh!!!
>>>
>>>You tell me, anything wrong with the chars used as ASCII graphics??
>>Not for me, but access gives:
>>Invalid use of vertical bars in query expression.
>>It doesn\'t like pipes (or rather quaintly "vertical bars" :)
>>You got any ideas of how to escape these. Is this really a problem (obviously apart from those great ASCII artists amoungst us)?
>>>
>>>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10869,'Fri Oct 30 10:27:39 1998','Re: promotions pic',1,10866,'
>there seems to be a broken picture on the promotions page
>normal.jpg
yep - this was the pic specified in the word doc, i assumed you were going to add it
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10870,'Fri Oct 30 10:30:07 1998','Re: booking login',1,10860,'
>something is going wrong with the booking login
>when I try to create a new booking it takes me straight back to the login form
yep, I also get this - Chippy can you take a look
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10871,'Fri Oct 30 11:03:00 1998','Re: Re: promotions pic',23,10869,'
>>there seems to be a broken picture on the promotions page
>>normal.jpg
>yep - this was the pic specified in the word doc, i assumed you were going to add it
aparently this pic is in the pictures directory (ahh - bless em)
but I havent been able to open an ftp to check it????
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10872,'Fri Oct 30 11:19:57 1998','deleting bulletin boards',23,0,'
I get this same error
\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\administration\edit.pl\' script produced no output
when I try to link through to the postings from the buletin board dependency list
are there any more of these??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10873,'Fri Oct 30 11:29:02 1998','Re: Re: FIXED ',1,10862,'
>>>on the promotions page there is a \'add to shortlist\' and a \'book now\' button at the bottom...
>>>what do they do??
>>>As far as I can tell theres nothing to book or shortlist on this page.
>>>am I missing something?
>>they allow you to book and shortlist the special offer!
>but nothing seems to appear in the shortlist (indeed what could?)
>or am I missing something??
the special offer is for a property id (111), these buttons allow you to book and shortlist that property.
it gets added for me!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10874,'Fri Oct 30 11:37:25 1998','broken picture in one property',4,0,'
number 183, its search-results piccie
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10875,'Fri Oct 30 11:41:50 1998','Re: deleting bulletin boards',4,10872,'
would you like me perhaps to zap all those test articles ... ?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10876,'Fri Oct 30 11:45:06 1998','Re: live',4,10861,'
>we are live!!!!
evil vile levi elvi(s) veil
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10877,'Fri Oct 30 11:47:30 1998','longest thread',4,10836,'
I think I win?
what will happen when it walks right off the edge?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10878,'Fri Oct 30 11:49:54 1998','inappropriately labelled yellow tool tips',4,0,'
Is there some way of stopping yellow tool tips
popping up called things like "do_submit", which is
a bit ugly?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10879,'Fri Oct 30 11:50:15 1998','FIXED',1,10872,'
>I get this same error
>\'E:\iglu\cgi-int\administration\edit.pl\' script produced no output
>when I try to link through to the postings from the buletin board dependency list
>are there any more of these??
we went backwards in the eary hours of the morning, now fixed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10880,'Fri Oct 30 11:52:04 1998','Re: inappropriately labelled yellow tool tips',1,10878,'
>Is there some way of stopping yellow tool tips
>popping up called things like "do_submit", which is
>a bit ugly?
set the \'alt\' tag for the image (see menu items)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10881,'Fri Oct 30 11:53:15 1998','Re: Re: Re: promotions pic',1,10871,'
>>>there seems to be a broken picture on the promotions page
>>>normal.jpg
>>yep - this was the pic specified in the word doc, i assumed you were going to add it
>aparently this pic is in the pictures directory (ahh - bless em)
>but I havent been able to open an ftp to check it????
the path i was given was
/pictures/resorts/normal.jpg
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10882,'Fri Oct 30 11:55:04 1998','something for the future',4,0,'
what about something to check whether picture paths
actually exist? many of them are broken.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10883,'Fri Oct 30 11:58:07 1998','Re: longest thread',1,10877,'
>I think I win?
>what will happen when it walks right off the edge?
stay on topic:
did you write a script to wip down the properties and set the random values?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10884,'Fri Oct 30 11:59:47 1998','colour of red slope percentage background',4,0,'
I don\'t suppose this matters but it consistently
comes out the same grey-ish as the black slope
percentage on my 8bpp display.
However it\'s probably because Unix Netscape
misbehaves rather badly in its colour management
under X windows.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10885,'Fri Oct 30 12:00:25 1998','Re: something for the future',1,10882,'
>what about something to check whether picture paths
>actually exist? many of them are broken.
don\'t really like this, if the pics aren\'t there, the paths should not be in the db, oitherwise it;s difficult to spot where the problem is.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10886,'Fri Oct 30 12:01:21 1998','Re: colour of red slope percentage background',1,10884,'
>I don\'t suppose this matters but it consistently
>comes out the same grey-ish as the black slope
>percentage on my 8bpp display.
>However it\'s probably because Unix Netscape
>misbehaves rather badly in its colour management
>under X windows.
are you bored will?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10887,'Fri Oct 30 12:04:16 1998','chalet shortlist "preferred" checkbox never set---fixed',4,0,'
this was an old bug which seems to keep coming back ...
please update all local copies of ChaletShortlist.pl
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10888,'Fri Oct 30 12:07:40 1998','Re: Re: longest thread',4,10883,'
>did you write a script to wip down the properties and set the random values?
yes, see prev message but two about Alaska improbably
getting the lowest searchorder
try it, it really works
there is one thing to test which is that the admin
script (which I uploaded to cgi-bin, see other
message) really does set the searchorder when you
create a new prop
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10889,'Fri Oct 30 12:11:11 1998','Re: Re: inappropriately labelled yellow tool tips',4,10880,'
>>Is there some way of stopping yellow tool tips
>>popping up called things like "do_submit", which is
>>a bit ugly?
>set the \'alt\' tag for the image (see menu items)
There are millions of these but I think it would be
a cosmetic improvement---
shall I do a little script to set an ALT tag
automatically, or has the boat officially left now?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10890,'Fri Oct 30 12:13:46 1998','Re: Re: deleting properties',4,10858,'
>please see post on deleting bookings.
I agree strongly with this---it\'s standard practice
never to delete records.
I can also promise (I think) that if you ever truly delete
a property or a customer then the offline search will probably
break, and maybe other things too. So don\'t do that.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10891,'Fri Oct 30 12:16:19 1998','Re: Re: colour of red slope percentage background',4,10886,'
>are you bored will?
apologies for unfunny joke
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10892,'Fri Oct 30 12:21:26 1998','Re: Re: Re: longest thread',1,10888,'
>>did you write a script to wip down the properties and set the random values?
>yes, see prev message but two about Alaska improbably
>getting the lowest searchorder
>try it, it really works
>there is one thing to test which is that the admin
>script (which I uploaded to cgi-bin, see other
>message) really does set the searchorder when you
>create a new prop
i guess i hopes that implecit in the question was: what is the name of the script?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10893,'Fri Oct 30 12:22:43 1998','newsletters',4,0,'
test ones need erasing
they need to be listed in issue order (newsletters.pl)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10894,'Fri Oct 30 12:22:45 1998','Re: Re: Re: inappropriately labelled yellow tool tips',1,10889,'
>>>Is there some way of stopping yellow tool tips
>>>popping up called things like "do_submit", which is
>>>a bit ugly?
>>set the \'alt\' tag for the image (see menu items)
>There are millions of these but I think it would be
>a cosmetic improvement---
>shall I do a little script to set an ALT tag
>automatically, or has the boat officially left now?
it has.
coincedentally, we watched titanic on video the other night
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10895,'Fri Oct 30 12:24:49 1998','Re: Re: deleting bulletin boards',23,10875,'
>would you like me perhaps to zap all those test articles ... ?
if its no bother.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10896,'Fri Oct 30 12:26:18 1998','Re: newsletters',4,10893,'
>test ones need erasing
>they need to be listed in issue order (newsletters.pl)
actually it seems that they are listed in REVERSE DATE
order ... and that the issue numbers of the test ones don\'t
follow date order, which is why it looks wrong
I suppose reverse date order is fairly sensible when you
think about it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10897,'Fri Oct 30 12:32:15 1998','Re: Re: newsletters',4,10896,'
Newsletter.html has a "back graphic required" note
instead of a back graphic
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10898,'Fri Oct 30 12:35:45 1998','fixed',4,10897,'
>Newsletter.html has a "back graphic required" note
>instead of a back graphic
fixed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10899,'Fri Oct 30 12:37:52 1998','fixed',4,10895,'
>>would you like me perhaps to zap all those test articles ... ?
>if its no bother.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10900,'Fri Oct 30 12:42:37 1998','bulletinboard.html',4,0,'
this gives a blank screen now that there are no articles
chippy---you have managed not to nest the tables and the
TEST; [[END TEST]] etc. properly (which is why
I get a blank screen) and you seem to have lost the
"there are no articles on this board" text
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10901,'Fri Oct 30 12:49:10 1998','Re: Re: property search again',23,10857,'
>>sorry to bang on but..
>>the labels on the property search boxes are still rather scrunchy and difficult to decipher.
>>Are you sure they cant come down a point (like in the booking form)? Maybe they could be bold again???
>\'scrunchy\' ?
>I am sure they cannot come down in size.
>we had bold and you didn\'t like that eithier.
>the labels will look a lot better when the resort names are shortened. overall I think it looks fine, and we should stop messing arround with it.
really hate to harp, but perhaps your browser looks different to mine.
for the first three criteria mine looks like this:
Location
(Country -
Resort)
Price (£)
per person
per week
Approximate
arrival date
if you really think this is ok - Ill never mention it again
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10902,'Fri Oct 30 12:49:20 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: agreement',4,10856,'
Shall we set about copylefting everything then?
Here\'s list of what seems to be generic:
CGIUtil.pm
DBIUtil.pm
Database.pm
Date.pm
HTMLUtil.pm
Range.pm
SQLUtil.pm
Template.pm
Util.pm
Validate.pm
administration/Administration*
boards/*
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10903,'Fri Oct 30 12:51:11 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: longest thread',4,10892,'
>i guess i hopes that implecit in the question was: what is the name of the script?
The short answer is Randomize.pl
The long answer is that it should never need to be run again.
It was just a hack, never suitable for plugging into the
admin pages, and if it was it would have to carry a confusing
caption like "you never need to run this" (like do not press
this red button).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10904,'Fri Oct 30 12:54:00 1998','ResortSearchResults.html',4,0,'
I get a blank screen (unclosed table?) if no search hits
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10905,'Fri Oct 30 12:56:28 1998','FIXED',2,10870,'
>>something is going wrong with the booking login
>>when I try to create a new booking it takes me straight back to the login form
>yep, I also get this - Chippy can you take a look
NB: IgluPage.pm HAS BEEN CHANGED
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10906,'Fri Oct 30 13:20:06 1998','FIXED',2,10605,'
>>>When booking is complete, there is no back button, so you can go back to the main page.
>>>Ben Janes
>>The main problem with this is that we don\'t really have a main page
>>to go back to! Note that this also affects pages with an iglu icon
>>(e.g. "About Iglu.com") which at the moment loads index.html.
>>This doesn\'t feel quite right to me - the user should just choose
>>the next thing they want to look at from the menu.
>>Thoughts?
>back to index.html
>there will be more stuff on this page (aparently)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10907,'Fri Oct 30 14:21:22 1998','FIXED',1,10817,'
There is a field for the property called \'Allow Multiple Bookings\' which should be set for hotels etc.
>>>So either we need a way of calculating how many rooms of a certain type a hotel has left, or we can just show all properties in the search results regardless of its booking status.
>>i think it is a good idea to stop most booked properties from being picked up by the search as otherwise many search results are going to be of no relevance to the customer.
>>we could therefor mark properties that are allowed to be booked more than once and prevent the booked check if this flag is set (for hotels etc)
>>how does this sound?
>
>sounds very good - I was aiming for the simplest solution for deliverable purposes
>how easy is this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10908,'Fri Oct 30 14:47:26 1998','FIXED',1,10903,'
We now have a random order for the property search results
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10909,'Fri Oct 30 15:46:31 1998','Re: bulletinboard.html',2,10900,'
>this gives a blank screen now that there are no articles
>chippy---you have managed not to nest the tables and the
>TEST; [[END TEST]] etc. properly (which is why
>I get a blank screen) and you seem to have lost the
>"there are no articles on this board" text
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10910,'Fri Oct 30 15:50:30 1998','fixed',4,10909,'
... is what he meant (it is) :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10911,'Fri Oct 30 15:57:09 1998','forward shortlist can take a long time',4,0,'
... if you enter an invalid address or just one which
is slow to verify over DNS, like my old williamc@aifh.ed.ac.uk
seems to be
however there ain\'t a lot we can do about this short of
moving to a queuing sendmail a la ***x
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10912,'Fri Oct 30 16:05:08 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: promotions pic',4,10881,'
>the path i was given was
>/pictures/resorts/normal.jpg
it\'s definitely not there
take the link away :) ?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10913,'Fri Oct 30 16:09:40 1998','promotion copy',4,0,'
I know it\'s not our problem but I don\'t like seeing the
promotions front page riddled with typos.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10914,'Fri Oct 30 16:14:23 1998','FIXED',1,10867,'
>>Can I sign this off?
>#
>I think so.
>>>>Admin, newsletter, couple of points,
>>>>i) When adding a story, with the Newsletter title in the list box, the same title doesn\'t come up, the first title comes up.
>>>this never worked, but seems like a good idea, so now does.
>>>>ii) It didn\'t let me insert this as a story...
>>>>Shattering Strike!!!
>>>> ||
>>>> ||
>>>> \/
>>>> __
>>>> / \
>>>>| | <--- Earth!!! ( If you believe
>>>>| | it, you\'ll
>>>> \__/ believe
>>>> anything.)
>>>>Shattering huh!!!
>>>>
>>>>You tell me, anything wrong with the chars used as ASCII graphics??
>>>Not for me, but access gives:
>>>Invalid use of vertical bars in query expression.
>>>It doesn\'t like pipes (or rather quaintly "vertical bars" :)
>>>You got any ideas of how to escape these. Is this really a problem (obviously apart from those great ASCII artists amoungst us)?
>>>>
>>>>Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10915,'Fri Oct 30 16:14:50 1998','FIXED',1,10865,'
>>>>Number 2.
>>>>When I had a deposit to pay of £250, I agreed in the final confimation before paying, in payment, the deposit had been reduced to: £.1 - slight problem here.
>>>This was for testing. Fixed
>>>>
>>>>Number 3.
>>>>The system allowed me to have a accomodation with price of £0, I could confirm etc.
>>>>
>>>>Ben janes
>>>Would you like me to check that the amount entered on the Booking Offer page
>>>is non-zero?
>Yes. Make life a bit easier I think.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10916,'Fri Oct 30 16:17:00 1998','insurance',4,0,'
"insurance" from the menu bar takes you to insurance_content.html which
in turn is only holding_page.jpg---surely not right?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10917,'Fri Oct 30 16:21:54 1998','FIXED',1,10916,'
>"insurance" from the menu bar takes you to insurance_content.html which
>in turn is only holding_page.jpg---surely not right?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10918,'Fri Oct 30 16:28:39 1998','newsletter subscribe --- fixed',4,0,'
was barfing if you already had an iglu_booking set
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10919,'Fri Oct 30 16:46:21 1998','FIXED',1,10819,'
>
>>it should be noted that resorts that are not published will still be accessable through the property search if there are properties that are published in the non published resort.
>>also properties that end up on shortlists, bookings and promotions will continue to appear through those functions even if the status is subsequently set to not published
>>what i guess i am saying is:
>>i\'m only going to change the searches (and resort->chalet lists etc)
>>is this OK?
>
>better than ok
>the main aim is to stop empty resorts or half finished properties turning up in searches
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10920,'Fri Oct 30 16:46:36 1998','booking form: unlikely to be a problem for real customers, but ...',4,0,'
booking for group where id = 65:
I\'m getting complaints about the validity of party member
1\'s details.
That is supposed to be me, the group leader, but I am not
in the party. Consequently if I submit invalid info
for member 1 or 2 on the form (there are only two),
I get complaints about member 2 or 3.
I came here from property search via BookingGoto.
Is it true to say that any new bookings created by real
customers will definitely have the group leader in them?
In case it matters it is definitely not safe to assume
that all customer records have any valid information
beyond email and first/last name (if that).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10921,'Fri Oct 30 16:48:05 1998','FIXED',1,10853,'
>>>>
>>>>could we have the same \'order by\' functions on the call management list headers as we have in booking management?
>>>Umm, it\'s bit of work. The alternate sorts are not there as we didn\'t feel that any of the other fields (apart from date/time desc) are sensible to order by.
>>>This list will not grow very big as answered calls are not shown, is a sort really necessary?
>>>>(also - the bug is still in the \'view\' link
>>>>\'Error
>>>>This script expects _iglu_object=callrequest-\')
>>>Fixed
>>fair play on the order thing
>cool
>>however
>>I dont know for sure - and I havent had any feed back from iglu - but it strikes me that we might need a way of viewing the answered calls
>>otherwise what is the \'call notes\' box for?
>it is for making note whilst the call is being delt with. To tackle this properly iglu need a full scale call management system, this is not what we are providing, we are simply providing a callback request service. when the callback has been done, this system is not sofisticated enough to take things further. I would imagine that iglu would create a customer record if any action is to be taken following the callback.
>>also
>>the \'previous\' link doesnt work (on page 2 of 2)
>wip
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10922,'Fri Oct 30 16:48:40 1998','FIXED',1,10822,'
>>since some really long resort names went in teh database the location box
>>has swelled to pantegrulean proportions and has distorted the page width
>>causing unsightly horizontal scroll bars to emerge.
>>Can we force the size of the box or shall we limit the length of resort names?
>>(is it even this that is the cause?? - the plot thins...)
>it is the cause, this is going to be easiest to fix by shortening the data.
>OK?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10923,'Fri Oct 30 16:53:15 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: agreement',1,10902,'
>Shall we set about copylefting everything then?
>Here\'s list of what seems to be generic:
>CGIUtil.pm
>DBIUtil.pm
>Database.pm
>Date.pm
>HTMLUtil.pm
>Range.pm
>SQLUtil.pm
>Template.pm
>Util.pm
>Validate.pm
>administration/Administration*
>boards/*
calls and newsletters? or not
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10924,'Fri Oct 30 16:53:43 1998','FIXED',1,10830,'
>>please can we stop posting to this board while I archive it.
>this is now done, please continue to use.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10925,'Fri Oct 30 16:55:37 1998','FIXED',1,10901,'
>>>sorry to bang on but..
>>>the labels on the property search boxes are still rather scrunchy and difficult to decipher.
>>>Are you sure they cant come down a point (like in the booking form)? Maybe they could be bold again???
>>\'scrunchy\' ?
>>I am sure they cannot come down in size.
>>we had bold and you didn\'t like that eithier.
>>the labels will look a lot better when the resort names are shortened. overall I think it looks fine, and we should stop messing arround with it.
>
>really hate to harp, but perhaps your browser looks different to mine.
>for the first three criteria mine looks like this:
>
> Location
> (Country -
> Resort)
> Price (£)
> per person
> per week
> Approximate
>arrival date
>
>if you really think this is ok - Ill never mention it again
nope this is not clever, but mine shows:
Location (Country - Resort)
Price (£) per person
per week
Approximate arrival date
etc.
so is this now OK?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10926,'Fri Oct 30 16:57:39 1998','FIXED',1,10890,'
>>please see post on deleting bookings.
>I agree strongly with this---it\'s standard practice
>never to delete records.
>I can also promise (I think) that if you ever truly delete
>a property or a customer then the offline search will probably
>break, and maybe other things too. So don\'t do that.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10927,'Fri Oct 30 16:58:35 1998','FIXED',1,10876,'
>>we are live!!!!
>evil vile levi elvi(s) veil
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10928,'Fri Oct 30 16:59:27 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: promotions pic',1,10912,'
>>the path i was given was
>>/pictures/resorts/normal.jpg
>it\'s definitely not there
>take the link away :) ?
no, force iglu to get it right
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10929,'Fri Oct 30 17:00:17 1998','FIXED',1,10894,'
>>>>Is there some way of stopping yellow tool tips
>>>>popping up called things like "do_submit", which is
>>>>a bit ugly?
>>>set the \'alt\' tag for the image (see menu items)
>>There are millions of these but I think it would be
>>a cosmetic improvement---
>>shall I do a little script to set an ALT tag
>>automatically, or has the boat officially left now?
>it has.
>coincedentally, we watched titanic on video the other night
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10930,'Fri Oct 30 17:00:39 1998','FIXED',1,10885,'
>>what about something to check whether picture paths
>>actually exist? many of them are broken.
>don\'t really like this, if the pics aren\'t there, the paths should not be in the db, oitherwise it;s difficult to spot where the problem is.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10931,'Fri Oct 30 17:01:33 1998','FIXED',1,10891,'
>>are you bored will?
>apologies for unfunny joke
?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10932,'Fri Oct 30 17:01:51 1998','FIXED',1,10887,'
>this was an old bug which seems to keep coming back ...
>please update all local copies of ChaletShortlist.pl
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10933,'Fri Oct 30 17:09:59 1998','Re: ResortSearchResults.html',1,10904,'
>I get a blank screen (unclosed table?) if no search hits
not reproduced, what is your html like?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10934,'Fri Oct 30 17:10:56 1998','FIXED',1,10918,'
>was barfing if you already had an iglu_booking set
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10935,'Fri Oct 30 17:26:39 1998','script tracker in place',1,0,'
All,
we now have a new tool that will help us track crashed. We are creating a log file which is updated as we enter and leave a script. this means that if a script fails to terminate we can easily (ish) find which one broke.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10936,'Fri Oct 30 17:27:48 1998','fixed',4,10933,'
>>I get a blank screen (unclosed table?) if no search hits
>not reproduced, what is your html like?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10937,'Fri Oct 30 17:30:48 1998','FIXED',2,10848,'
>The situation is now that the ecommerce is wired up.
>There are a couple of small things which will be sorted
>out tomorrow when Keith at Securetrading gets in.
>At present all the confirmation e-mails are coming to
>me instead of sales@iglu.com
>Let me know when you want this changed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10938,'Fri Oct 30 17:45:01 1998','Re: script tracker in place',4,10935,'
Incidentally another point of interest is that it records
the CPU time taken to run the script between the end of the
loading/initialisation phase and the point at which it
deposits its "finished" timestamp.
You can see it by differencing timeend and timestart.
Unfortunately the CPU time is for the whole web server so
the results are a little wayward. For instance
BookingGoto.pl once took over a second of CPU time,
which is clearly untrue. But on the whole the results
are reassuring.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10939,'Fri Oct 30 18:04:52 1998','FIXED',2,10920,'
Real customer will have the group leader in the group
and they cannot remove it (or if they manage to, they
won\'t be able to complain :-)
The amount of data about each member is OK for the booking form.
>booking for group where id = 65:
>I\'m getting complaints about the validity of party member
>1\'s details.
>That is supposed to be me, the group leader, but I am not
>in the party. Consequently if I submit invalid info
>for member 1 or 2 on the form (there are only two),
>I get complaints about member 2 or 3.
>I came here from property search via BookingGoto.
>Is it true to say that any new bookings created by real
>customers will definitely have the group leader in them?
>In case it matters it is definitely not safe to assume
>that all customer records have any valid information
>beyond email and first/last name (if that).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10940,'Fri Oct 30 18:11:14 1998','FIXED',2,10770,'
>
>>I\'ve just thought - we would need to make this a two step process
>>because we need to know which property to calculate the costs.
>>We could pre-fetch all the property prices and calculate the costs
>>automatically using javascript, for definitely not before Friday :-)
>>I assume that this would not be a problem...
>this has just started to look uglier than I had anticipated - lets rethink it (back burner)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10941,'Fri Oct 30 18:15:16 1998','FIXED',2,10937,'
And all the e-mail is being sent to sales@iglu.com
>>The situation is now that the ecommerce is wired up.
>>There are a couple of small things which will be sorted
>>out tomorrow when Keith at Securetrading gets in.
>>At present all the confirmation e-mails are coming to
>>me instead of sales@iglu.com
>>Let me know when you want this changed.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10942,'Fri Oct 30 18:18:18 1998','FIXED',2,10711,'
No more time this week :-)
>>>>>another hypothetical...
>>>>>when processing a booking how possible/likely is it to have , as well as the clear form and submit options, to have a save option that would save the currnt state of the form and flag it with a \'pending\' status and stick it in the unconfirmed booking list
>>>>>??????????
>>>>>(Ill completely understand if the answer is not at all)
>>>>Very easy if we can get the graphic done.
>>>>Thoughts?
>>>dont quite understand what the graphic is for???
>>>Im just thinking about the admin side
>>>ie - the save button goes on the \'new booking\' page so that someone who
>>>is processing the booking can save a half processed one and get back to it later.
>>>the saved booking is than accessible from the \'unconfirmed booking\' page and is flagged as status - pending
>>Sorry John, I was thinking of the Customer\'s Booking Form. Should have
>>read the subject :-)
>>This is more difficult on the Booking Offer form, but I\'ll see how we do
>>for time and hope to get it done.
>this has been added to the \'if time allows this week\' list
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10943,'Fri Oct 30 19:28:22 1998','who posted this?',1,0,'
very goog :)
Iglu.com has been unable to find any more skiing accomodation
which matches the criteria you specified on 29-10-1998.
You will receive no further email from us.
See also
http://www.stone-dead.asn.au/pictures/sketches/spam.htm
Best wishes,
iglu.com
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10944,'Fri Oct 30 20:15:44 1998','Re: FIXED',23,10925,'
>>>>sorry to bang on but..
>>>>the labels on the property search boxes are still rather scrunchy and difficult to decipher.
>>>>Are you sure they cant come down a point (like in the booking form)? Maybe they could be bold again???
>>>\'scrunchy\' ?
>>>I am sure they cannot come down in size.
>>>we had bold and you didn\'t like that eithier.
>>>the labels will look a lot better when the resort names are shortened. overall I think it looks fine, and we should stop messing arround with it.
>>
>>really hate to harp, but perhaps your browser looks different to mine.
>>for the first three criteria mine looks like this:
>>
>> Location
>> (Country -
>> Resort)
>> Price (£)
>> per person
>> per week
>> Approximate
>>arrival date
>>
>>if you really think this is ok - Ill never mention it again
>nope this is not clever, but mine shows:
>Location (Country - Resort)
> Price (£) per person
> per week
> Approximate arrival date
>etc.
>so is this now OK?
well I suppose nobody else in the world will have the same system settings as me - so yes this is ok
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10945,'Fri Oct 30 20:58:55 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: agreement',4,10923,'
>calls and newsletters? or not
sure, why not ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10946,'Fri Oct 30 21:02:16 1998','getting rid of test data',4,0,'
Do you think we should just go ahead and delete all the data we have created
during testing? It doesn\'t give a great impression at the moment, although
on the user side the only visible stuff is Ben\'s newsletter which is probably
the best thing which will ever appear ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10947,'Fri Oct 30 21:35:58 1998','broken',1,0,'
Iglu tried to update the dbase today at 7:50 and it crashed with the following error message:
Couldn\'t execute statement: [-1613] [1663] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] You can\'t add or change a record because a related record is required in table \'SkiResort_old\'.", , INSERT INTO Property (Agent, SkiResort, Owner, PropertyName, Address, Postcode, City, PropertyType, Catering, BookPeriod, PStatus, CurrencyCode, PRange, CommissionRate, TdeSej, Orientation, Area, AllowMultipleBookings, Description, AccessDesc, NoParking, DistanceTownCentre, NearestFoodStore, NearesBarRestaurant, NearestBusStop, DSlopes, TransferArrangement, Animator, NonSmoke, Baby, Wheelchair, Animals, NoSleeps, GSize, NoDblBed, NoSglbed, NoBedLiv, NoBed, Bed1Dbl, Bed1Sgl, Bed1enS, Bed2Dbl, Bed2Sgl, Bed2enS, Bed3Dbl, Bed3Sgl, Bed3enS, Bed4Dbl, Bed4Sgl, Bed4enS, Bed5Dbl, Bed5Sgl, Bed5enS, Bed6Dbl, Bed6Sgl, Bed6enS, NoShow, NoBaths, NoBathRm, NoWC, ColTV, TVPrice, Satelite, SatPrice, Video, Hifi, Linen, LinenCost, TowlsInc, TowelsPrice, Housecleaning, Heating, Cooker, Oven, Fridge, Freezer, Microwave, Dishwasher, WashMach, Dryer, Iron, Coffee, Toaster, FPlace, Sauna, Jacuzzi, Hamman, Swimming, Indoor, Balcony, Terrace, Phone, PhoneType, PhoneNo, MiscFeature, FMap, PWinter1, PWinter2, PSummer1, PSummer2, PKitchen, PLiving, PBed1, PBed2, PBed3, PBed4, PBed5, POther1, POther2, POther3, POther4, PDining, LocMap, Icon, searchorder) VALUES (\'27\', \'78\', NULL, \'Printemps Hotel\', NULL, \'11020\', \'Pila\', \'6\', \'2\', \'7\', \'1\', \'11\', NULL, \'10%\', NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, \'100\', \'100\', \'on the hotel 0\', NULL, \'100\', NULL, 1, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, \'4\', \'1\', \'2\', NULL, \'1\', NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, 1, NULL, 1, NULL, NULL, NULL, 1, NULL, 1, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, 1, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, 1, \'5\', NULL, NULL, NULL, \'/pictures/pila/printempswinn.jpg\', NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NUL
\'/pictures/pila/pilamap.jpg\', NULL, 0.563568115234375) &SkiResort
Any ideas???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10948,'Fri Oct 30 21:37:15 1998','Re: broken',1,10947,'
>Iglu tried to update the dbase today at 7:50 and it crashed with the following error message:
>Couldn\'t execute statement: [-1613] [1663] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] You can\'t add or change a record because a related record is required in table \'SkiResort_old\'
Dan,
ask ben what he has been doing to the database. skiresort_old is his creation, and has broken it. he will need to upload a fixed database.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10949,'Fri Oct 30 22:53:49 1998','booking offer',23,0,'
when submitting a booking offer from \'new booking\' in admin, I get
Error
Query UPDATE BookCust SET WHERE id = 194:
[-3503] [1875] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in UPDATE statement."
is this the same problem as \'broken\'?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10950,'Sat Oct 31 0:47:29 1998','we call you',23,0,'
the cancel link on the we call you page does the same as the submit link
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10951,'Sat Oct 31 1:34:52 1998','to ski or not to ski...',23,0,'
what a piece of work is iglu.com - How infinite in faculty...
all in all Gentlemen - a damn fine job.
I owe you all a beer (except Tim, whom I owe 2)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10952,'Sat Oct 31 11:59:19 1998','Re: to ski or not to ski...',4,10951,'
>what a piece of work is iglu.com - How infinite in faculty...
>all in all Gentlemen - a damn fine job.
>I owe you all a beer (except Tim, whom I owe 2)
On the contrary, we all owe you a beer for your hard work
testing, commenting and talking to Iglu! It was much
appreciated.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10953,'Sat Oct 31 12:09:01 1998','Re: script tracker in place',4,10935,'
Interestingly, you can provoke a "script didn\'t terminate"
record in the activity log quite easily by calling up a
script and pressing escape (or I expect the stop button).
This accounts for the handful of nontermination records
in the activity log (they\'re not `real\' process-spinning-
out-of-control indications since the server is still
up and they are of scripts which are known to have worked
many times in the past).
I suppose this means that if you break the TCP connection
the server kills the script.
Obviously this has implications for scripts that do
database updates ... I don\'t know if the upshot is
commit or rollback, but in any case I don\'t think we
have made anything critical dependent on getting all
of a series of updates :).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10954,'Sat Oct 31 12:15:08 1998','fixed',4,10950,'
>the cancel link on the we call you page does the same as the submit link
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10955,'Sat Oct 31 14:10:31 1998','another golden oldie --- fixed',4,0,'
attempt to register for bargains as a new user gave
"user x@y.z not found in database" or some such
I am sure I fixed this several times ... am I going mad
or did I always fix it in cgi-bin?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10956,'Sat Oct 31 17:42:50 1998','Re: Re: script tracker in place',2,10953,'
[snip - bogus "script didn\'t terminate" messages]
>Obviously this has implications for scripts that do
>database updates ... I don\'t know if the upshot is
>commit or rollback, but in any case I don\'t think we
>have made anything critical dependent on getting all
>of a series of updates :).
Either is ok for booking, just so long as it doesn\'t do
some and not others (i.e. processses the whole script).
The only problem I can think of is when someone pays
their money and hits escape before the database records
that fact :-)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10957,'Sat Oct 31 17:47:02 1998','Re: Re: Re: script tracker in place',4,10956,'
>Either is ok for booking, just so long as it doesn\'t do
>some and not others (i.e. processses the whole script).
From what you told me about having to disconnect to
achieve a writedown it sounds like that\'s unlikely,
although I suppose there are situations where, because
of W32ODBC\'s single-mindedness problem, we have several
ODBC connections open and they don\'t all shut down at
exactly the same time.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10958,'Sat Oct 31 17:59:01 1998','Re: Re: to ski or not to ski...',2,10952,'
>>what a piece of work is iglu.com - How infinite in faculty...
I thought we\'d solved that :-)
>>all in all Gentlemen - a damn fine job.
>>I owe you all a beer (except Tim, whom I owe 2)
I think I inadvertantly drank everyones beer last night %-P
>On the contrary, we all owe you a beer for your hard work
>testing, commenting and talking to Iglu! It was much
>appreciated.
Agree. I can honestly say it was a pleasure. Thanks to
everyone.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10959,'Sat Oct 31 19:52:28 1998','Re: booking offer',23,10949,'
>when submitting a booking offer from \'new booking\' in admin, I get
>Error
>Query UPDATE BookCust SET WHERE id = 194:
>[-3503] [1875] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in UPDATE statement."
>is this the same problem as \'broken\'?
has anyone had a chance to look at this?
It doesnt seem to be possible to process a booking.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10960,'Sat Oct 31 20:32:24 1998','Re: Re: booking offer',1,10959,'
>>when submitting a booking offer from \'new booking\' in admin, I get
>>Error
>>Query UPDATE BookCust SET WHERE id = 194:
>>[-3503] [1875] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in UPDATE statement."
>>is this the same problem as \'broken\'?
>
>has anyone had a chance to look at this?
>It doesnt seem to be possible to process a booking.
sorry john, railed to reproduce, is it a specific booking?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10961,'Sun Nov 1 1:07:41 1998','Re: Re: Re: booking offer',23,10960,'
>>>when submitting a booking offer from \'new booking\' in admin, I get
>>>Error
>>>Query UPDATE BookCust SET WHERE id = 194:
>>>[-3503] [1875] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in UPDATE statement."
>>>is this the same problem as \'broken\'?
>>
>>has anyone had a chance to look at this?
>>It doesnt seem to be possible to process a booking.
>sorry john, railed to reproduce, is it a specific booking?
I seem to be getting it with all my bookings
try booking no 140 or 120
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10962,'Sun Nov 1 2:32:11 1998','promotions',23,0,'
Im having a lot of trouble getting into promotions/manage customers/(any customer record)
No error - just timing out
could someone else try this
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10963,'Sun Nov 1 9:41:18 1998','FIXED',1,10961,'
>>>>when submitting a booking offer from \'new booking\' in admin, I get
>>>>Error
>>>>Query UPDATE BookCust SET WHERE id = 194:
>>>>[-3503] [1875] [0] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in UPDATE statement."
>>>>is this the same problem as \'broken\'?
>>>
>>>has anyone had a chance to look at this?
>>>It doesnt seem to be possible to process a booking.
>>sorry john, railed to reproduce, is it a specific booking?
>
>I seem to be getting it with all my bookings
>try booking no 140 or 120
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10964,'Sun Nov 1 9:42:11 1998','Re: promotions',1,10962,'
>Im having a lot of trouble getting into promotions/manage customers/(any customer record)
>No error - just timing out
>could someone else try this
works fine for me, can you access customer rect through the normal admin->data->customer screen? is\'t the same screen.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10965,'Sun Nov 1 20:11:43 1998','sky news',36,0,'
did you see the interview with richard on sky news, first time ever for me
to see a site i worked on demonstrated on telly!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10966,'Sun Nov 1 20:12:27 1998','Re: sky news',1,10965,'
>did you see the interview with richard on sky news, first time ever for me
>to see a site i worked on demonstrated on telly!
I would give good money to see it. John, did richard get a tape?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10967,'Mon Nov 2 9:29:40 1998','Re: Re: sky news',23,10966,'
>>did you see the interview with richard on sky news, first time ever for me
>>to see a site i worked on demonstrated on telly!
>I would give good money to see it. John, did richard get a tape?
its news to me - Ill ask him when I see him
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10968,'Mon Nov 2 14:16:54 1998','Iglu.com',1,0,'
Tim,
Fantastic site! It really is one of the most impressive sites I have seen in a long time. And to do it so fast!
Giles (keyhaven)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10969,'Mon Nov 2 15:20:06 1998','Comments on graphics',3,0,'
A customer of mine made the following observations of Iglu:
1. Lovely, nice graphics
2. Right hand frame has no background colour specified
3. Main frameset is set to 670, so forcing horizontal scrollbar at 640
Hope this helps
TimP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10970,'Mon Nov 2 15:44:25 1998','FIXED',1,10969,'
>A customer of mine made the following observations of Iglu:
>1. Lovely, nice graphics
>2. Right hand frame has no background colour specified
htis should have a bgimage, but faircomment for people who supress them. fixed
>3. Main frameset is set to 670, so forcing horizontal scrollbar at 640
yep, site is optomised for 800x600
>Hope this helps
yep
>TimP
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10971,'Mon Nov 2 17:06:55 1998','ski resorts/domains',23,0,'
Gentlemen - a question
In ski resorts, if we make the \'Ski Domain\' field non-mandatory,
will it have any effect on script integrity, or will it seemlessly nestle
into the bosom of the code?
(It turns out some resorts dont have a domain)
Please let me know what you think
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10972,'Mon Nov 2 17:42:36 1998','Re: FIXED',4,10970,'
>yep, site is optomised for 800x600
loboptomised more like ;-)
(only joking)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10973,'Mon Nov 2 17:53:08 1998','Re: ski resorts/domains',4,10971,'
>In ski resorts, if we make the \'Ski Domain\' field non-mandatory,
>will it have any effect on script integrity, or will it seemlessly nestle
>into the bosom of the code?
I can see three areas where a problem might show up---in order
of seriousness:
templates not ready for values to be blank:
e.g. $propertyname ($skiresort, $skidomain) would show as
Alaska (Courchevel, ); there are definitely a few of these
searches ignoring properties with a NULL domain;
actually at a glance this looks like it won\'t happen
scripts failing with an error message; again, I can\'t
immediately think of or see a place where this will
happen
However---I wouldn\'t jump out of an aeroplane wearing it,
so we would have to spend a little time testing it.
Sorry.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10974,'Mon Nov 2 18:10:00 1998','Re: getting rid of test data',4,10946,'
Er, the test newsletter is still there,
so are the test "we\'ll call you" records.
There is one genuine "we\'ll call you".
There are eight genuine offline search customers.
(Do Iglu know that?)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10975,'Mon Nov 2 18:15:54 1998','Re: Re: getting rid of test data',4,10974,'
I zapped the test "We\'ll call you"s anyway
What about the newsletters, shall I do them too?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10976,'Mon Nov 2 18:19:59 1998','Re: Re: Re: getting rid of test data',4,10975,'
>I zapped the test "We\'ll call you"s anyway
>What about the newsletters, shall I do them too?
OK, noone said "STOP, don\'t delete Ben\'s masterpiece"
so it\'s too late now
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10977,'Mon Nov 2 18:51:39 1998','Re: promotion copy',4,10913,'
>I know it\'s not our problem but I don\'t like seeing the
>promotions front page riddled with typos.
Link still broken, speling mistakes still there---
can someone who shares an office with iglu tell them
about this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10978,'Mon Nov 2 19:05:23 1998','Re: Re: promotion copy',23,10977,'
>can someone who shares an office with iglu ...
I wonder to whom you can be referring...?
there are no iglus here at the moment
Ill get into it tomorrow
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10979,'Mon Nov 2 19:10:38 1998','engine man Patrick',23,0,'
Does anybody know Patricks number?
I (and iglu) have been looking at the search engines and still no sign of land.
Just wondering about progress...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10980,'Mon Nov 2 19:59:49 1998','Re: engine man Patrick',1,10979,'
>Does anybody know Patricks number?
see /people/partickg :)
>I (and iglu) have been looking at the search engines and still no sign of land.
>Just wondering about progress...
I think it is early day yet (1st submission was only 2 weeks ago, but give him a shout, and let me know about progress).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10981,'Mon Nov 2 20:10:47 1998','Re: Re: ski resorts/domains',1,10973,'
>>In ski resorts, if we make the \'Ski Domain\' field non-mandatory,
>>will it have any effect on script integrity, or will it seemlessly nestle
>>into the bosom of the code?
>I can see three areas where a problem might show up---in order
>of seriousness:
>templates not ready for values to be blank:
>e.g. $propertyname ($skiresort, $skidomain) would show as
>Alaska (Courchevel, ); there are definitely a few of these
>searches ignoring properties with a NULL domain;
>actually at a glance this looks like it won\'t happen
>scripts failing with an error message; again, I can\'t
>immediately think of or see a place where this will
>happen
>However---I wouldn\'t jump out of an aeroplane wearing it,
>so we would have to spend a little time testing it.
>Sorry.
John: I guess this one joins the \'needs to be done when we have a maintenance contract in place\' list. Is this OK?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10982,'Mon Nov 2 20:13:01 1998','Re: Re: FIXED',1,10972,'
>>yep, site is optomised for 800x600
>loboptomised more like ;-)
>(only joking)
Well I think it looks brilliant and so does everyone I talk to. nnInn
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10983,'Mon Nov 2 20:13:10 1998','Re: Re: engine man Patrick',4,10980,'
Interesting comparison with www.holidayrentals.co.uk
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10984,'Mon Nov 2 20:14:40 1998','Re: Re: Re: engine man Patrick',4,10983,'
>Interesting comparison with www.holidayrentals.co.uk
sorry, of course meant comparison between the SITES
not between the number of search hits---theirs has
been up far longer
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10985,'Mon Nov 2 20:24:53 1998','Re: Re: Re: FIXED',4,10982,'
>Well I think it looks brilliant and so does everyone I talk to. nnInn
It does look fine here on the Uni\'s expensive Sun screens ...
I suppose those people with 800x600 laptops are too poor
to afford skiing holidays anyway!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10986,'Mon Nov 2 20:28:17 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: engine man Patrick',1,10984,'
>>Interesting comparison with www.holidayrentals.co.uk
>sorry, of course meant comparison between the SITES
>not between the number of search hits---theirs has
>been up far longer
very interesting though.
this is what they have in their meta data:
META NAME="description"
CONTENT="The best Vacation Rental site. Over 1000 holiday rentals including villas, apartments, ski chalets etc in 40 countries. Full details & great photos. Direct booking."
META NAME="keywords"
CONTENT="holiday rentals, vacation rentals, holiday, holidays, rent, vacation rental, holiday rental, holiday home, rentals, rental, let, accommodation, holiday accommodation, self catering, self-catering, self-catering accommodation, lodging, property, holiday property, ski, ski chalet, skiing, piste, apartment, apartments, bungalow, barn, beach house, cabin, castle, chalet, chalets, chateau, condo, condominium, cottage, cottages, duplex, estate, farmhouse, finca, fincas, flat, gatehouse, gite, home, house, houses, lodge, manor, mas, penthouse, stable, studio, villa, villas, Europe, Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Canary Islands, Guernsey, Cyprus, Czech Republic, England, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Norway, Portugal, Scotland, Spain, Switzerland, Wales, Caribbean, Anguilla, Bahamas, Antigua, Bahamas, Barbados, Cayman Islands, Grenada, Jamaica, St Lucia, Tobago, USA, North America, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Canada, Kenya, Morocco, South Africa, Thailand, Mauritius"
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10987,'Mon Nov 2 20:30:57 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: engine man Patrick',1,10984,'
>>Interesting comparison with www.holidayrentals.co.uk
>sorry, of course meant comparison between the SITES
>not between the number of search hits---theirs has
>been up far longer
having been so close to iglu, it\'s difficult to comapre, but they do have a completely diffrent business model (charging property owners to advertise, as opposed to skimming commission.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10988,'Mon Nov 2 20:34:45 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: engine man Patrick',1,10986,'
>this is what they have in their meta data:
snip
I had a long debate with a patent agent friend of mine about the IP rights you have over your meta data. I will see if I can entice him into debate.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10989,'Mon Nov 2 20:35:16 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: engine man Patrick',1,10988,'
>>this is what they have in their meta data:
>snip
>I had a long debate with a patent agent friend of mine about the IP rights you have over your meta data. I will see if I can entice him into debate.
he\'s in NZ :(
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10990,'Mon Nov 2 20:41:01 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: FIXED',1,10985,'
>>Well I think it looks brilliant and so does everyone I talk to. nnInn
>It does look fine here on the Uni\'s expensive Sun screens ...
>I suppose those people with 800x600 laptops are too poor
>to afford skiing holidays anyway!
looks fine on mine. probably the os.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10991,'Tue Nov 3 0:08:32 1998','Re: Re: Re: ski resorts/domains',23,10981,'
>John: I guess this one joins the \'needs to be done when we have a maintenance contract in place\' list. Is this OK?
Yep
however, as an interim measure what do you think to putting the
\'domain called none\' back in?
Otherwise there are some resorts that cant go in.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10992,'Tue Nov 3 8:54:18 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: ski resorts/domains',1,10991,'
>
>>John: I guess this one joins the \'needs to be done when we have a maintenance contract in place\' list. Is this OK?
>
>Yep
>however, as an interim measure what do you think to putting the
> \'domain called none\' back in?
>Otherwise there are some resorts that cant go in.
good plan
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10993,'Tue Nov 3 9:48:00 1998','server strain',23,0,'
between about 9 adn 9.15 this morning the server was running as if through treacle.
I gave iway a call and they reckon there was a lot of cgi processing going on.
Can your patented proprietary script trackers shed any light on this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10994,'Tue Nov 3 13:28:37 1998','FIXED',23,10992,'
>>
>>>John: I guess this one joins the \'needs to be done when we have a maintenance contract in place\' list. Is this OK?
>>
>>Yep
>>however, as an interim measure what do you think to putting the
>> \'domain called none\' back in?
>>Otherwise there are some resorts that cant go in.
>good plan
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10995,'Thu Nov 5 15:02:03 1998','login explanation',23,0,'
does anyone think that it might be good practice to include a line of text on
the login page stressing the importance of having a login that is different to your password? It seems this would minimise the possibility of stumblimg upon someone elses login, which - would you believe - has already happened...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10996,'Thu Nov 5 15:46:40 1998','Check out the new snowboarder animated logo',1,0,'
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/apr/iglu/ski.gif
wadda you all think?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10997,'Thu Nov 5 16:11:45 1998','Re: Check out the new snowboarder animated logo',3,10996,'
>http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/apr/iglu/ski.gif
>wadda you all think?
Love it so much I put it in the logo!!
TimP
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10998,'Thu Nov 5 16:18:54 1998','Re: login explanation',1,10995,'
>
>does anyone think that it might be good practice to include a line of text on
>the login page stressing the importance of having a login that is different to your password? It seems this would minimise the possibility of stumblimg upon someone elses login, which - would you believe - has already happened...
this is not the way to control people who are slack with passwords, the correct mechanism is to insist that the password is at least 6 chars and has at least 1 number in it.
so if we want to change it, i vote for getting it right. thoughts?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
10999,'Thu Nov 5 16:31:10 1998','Re: Check out the new snowboarder animated logo',2,10996,'
>http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/apr/iglu/ski.gif
>wadda you all think?
I like it - very nice. I might prefer it, though, if it stayed
still long at each end of the animation.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11000,'Thu Nov 5 16:41:59 1998','for those who have sold their soul',1,0,'
you may find this interesting
>
>http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/01/205212.shtml
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11001,'Thu Nov 5 17:59:05 1998','Re: Check out the new snowboarder animated logo',23,10996,'
>http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/apr/iglu/ski.gif
>wadda you all think?
luscious. I agree with Myles about the pauses though - maybe even a slightly longer pause at the iglu end. My only other concern is iglus potential response
to the oh-so-slight tinkering with their brand image (which incidentally they have now had printed on to t-shirts, sweat shirts, 1000s of post cards etc). but I maybe a little hypersensative. There are no iglus atround at the moment to show, but why dont we just shove it on the site, and they will probably fall in love with it before they notice the difference.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11002,'Thu Nov 5 21:01:51 1998','Re: Check out the new snowboarder animated logo',4,10996,'
>http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/apr/iglu/ski.gif
>wadda you all think?
very pertty :)
It\'s oddly jerky on my machine but that is probably because
of loading.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11003,'Thu Nov 5 21:02:46 1998','Re: Re: Check out the new snowboarder animated logo',4,11002,'
>>http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/apr/iglu/ski.gif
>>wadda you all think?
>very pertty :)
>It\'s oddly jerky on my machine but that is probably because
>of loading.
erm, I\'m compiling something actually ... :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11004,'Thu Nov 5 21:10:12 1998','Re: Re: login explanation',4,10998,'
>this is not the way to control people who are slack with passwords, the correct mechanism is to insist that the password is at least 6 chars and has at least 1 number in it.
>so if we want to change it, i vote for getting it right. thoughts?
Me too, definitely. password != login name and is longer than three
characters and isn\'t p-a-s-s-w-o-r-d or s-e-s-a-m-e.
Don\'t know about insisting on digits though.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11005,'Fri Nov 6 8:30:42 1998','heads of agreement',1,0,'
Will, Chippy,
Can you please read, print out, sign and send to me the heads of agreement document.
/partners/apr/iglu/agreement
Cheers
Tim
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11006,'Mon Nov 9 16:41:52 1998','FT article',23,0,'
an extract from last thursdays FT
by DAVID BOWEN
Now is the time for skiers to dust off their salopettes and wonder where
they can get their next adrenalin fix. The internet\'s demographics
(well-off, not-so-old) and those of skiers match pretty well, and there is plenty
of ski stuff on the web. But how easy is it to find the resort you want, and to
book it from the site? Not very.
One of the most comprehensive ski sites, covering Europe and North
America, is Emap\'s 1ski. com. It is superbly laid out, with easy navigation and pictures just big
enough to add interest without slowing the site down. It also has a good newsy feel,
and gives the lowdown on 200 resorts, including the price of beer. But despite
the late booking facility (which starts in mid-November), this is mainly an
information site. Unless you want a late special, there are few clues about
booking a holiday in the resort you have identified. Linked to a full-blown
booking system, 1ski. com would be superb. But it\'s not there yet.
Specialist travel agent Snow Line claims to run \'Britain\'s best web
site for skiers and snowboarders\'. Well, up to a point. Any site that features
yellow lettering on a beige background has design problems. Add clashing
colours and flashing words, and we have a two-aspirin site that epitomises an
all-too-common combination among web designers: technical competence
and the visual flair of a bat. There is little information on the
resorts, or indeed much to help you choose anything. All of which is a shame, because the
central service - e mail questionnaires that let Snow Line\'s staff find you a
holiday - is a good use of the medium.
Iglu. com enables skiers to find a chalet from a choice of 3,000, and
property owners to change their details in a password protected area. Iglu has
been busy signing up as many European resorts as it can, so that it will
have not only a thoroughly useful database but also an information monopoly.
Add a nifty bit of intelligence called \'forager\' - use a sliding scale to
express your preferences (budget/luxury, beginner/ expert), deduct some appalling
English (Alpe d\'Huez has \'a large sleep capacity\'), and we end up with a site
that needs polishing but shows a deep understanding of the medium. 1ski.
Com www. 1ski. com **** Snowline www. snow-line. co. uk ** Iglu www. iglu.
Com
*****
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11007,'Mon Nov 9 16:57:18 1998','Re: FT article',1,11006,'
Well done iglu, the PR machine is working great. I hope the comments on spelling are taken to heart.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11008,'Tue Nov 10 10:15:16 1998','customerNoAlloc ',4,0,'Posted on behalf of WilliamC by TimJ
I happened to notice when looking at the customer number issue that
Iglu.pm has a version of customerNoAlloc which I thought had been
stamped out long ago---only makes a problem under conditions which are
never supposed to happen, and even then is nonfatal, but could you
put it up anyway?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11009,'Tue Nov 10 10:15:32 1998','FIXED',1,11008,'
>I happened to notice when looking at the customer number issue that
>Iglu.pm has a version of customerNoAlloc which I thought had been
>stamped out long ago---only makes a problem under conditions which are
>never supposed to happen, and even then is nonfatal, but could you
>put it up anyway?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11010,'Tue Nov 10 10:17:08 1998','Customer Nos',4,0,'Posted on behalf of WilliamC by TimJ
can you pick up cgi-bin/newsletters/MailingListRequestAck.pl
and cgi-bin/bargs/BargainsRequestAck.pl, try \'em out (I
haven\'t, sorry!) and pop them in cgi-int
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11011,'Tue Nov 10 10:17:23 1998','FIXED',1,11010,'
>can you pick up cgi-bin/newsletters/MailingListRequestAck.pl
>and cgi-bin/bargs/BargainsRequestAck.pl, try \'em out (I
>haven\'t, sorry!) and pop them in cgi-int
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11012,'Tue Nov 10 19:20:43 1998','server sluggardlyness',23,0,'
7:10pm tuesday
server is well and truly hung, but apparently not broken as Im getting \'connected - waiting for reply\'
but nothing else.
how are the scripts behaving??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11013,'Tue Nov 10 19:31:40 1998','admin passwords',23,0,'
could we set up an admin password or two?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11014,'Tue Nov 10 19:43:18 1998','search stuff',23,0,'
Iglu are asking how the various search parameters are being applied and calculated
particularly the price and date searches (as they have occasion to explain to people why their search isnt finding anything).
Tim has tried to explain this to me but my brain is stupid. Is it possible
to have a simple explanation of non-obvious search routines?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11015,'Thu Nov 12 12:10:58 1998','Server Down - Apologies',20,0,'
All,
TimJ and I had a little talk last night, and from it came the fact that probably the couple of unexplained server crashes were due to my VB executable not closing the DB, or crashing during runtine.
Sorry.
Ben Janes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11016,'Thu Nov 12 12:13:47 1998','Re: search stuff',1,11014,'
>Iglu are asking how the various search parameters are being applied and calculated
>particularly the price and date searches (as they have occasion to explain to people why their search isnt finding anything).
>Tim has tried to explain this to me but my brain is stupid. Is it possible
>to have a simple explanation of non-obvious search routines?
OK, prices and dates are connected (obviously).
So, it works like this:
the price of a property is converted into sterling and translated to a Price (£) per person per week. This is done using using the number of rooms (if the price is based on rooms), or Maximum Group Size (if the price is based on people). This calculation is calculated at 50% - 100% occupancy (or uses the search criteria for group size if it has been specified by the user).
A property is then selected if the price (as calculated above) for the date specified falls with the price range specified. As long as there is no booking for that date (and the property is not allowed to be booked more than once).
See, it really make quite good sense.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11017,'Thu Nov 12 12:14:41 1998','Re: admin passwords',1,11013,'
>could we set up an admin password or two?
sure. you dont need to get permission.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11018,'Thu Nov 12 12:25:56 1998','Re: server sluggardlyness',1,11012,'
>7:10pm tuesday
>server is well and truly hung, but apparently not broken as Im getting \'connected - waiting for reply\'
>but nothing else.
>how are the scripts behaving??
The only script that failed to complete was at 1998-11-10 17:40:04.
We might have had a go-slow due to load, what do the hits look like? If they are not big, then quite probably the system is being slowed down due to another virtual server on the same machine. Of course we cannot obtain load stats as we are running on NT :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11019,'Thu Nov 12 15:54:07 1998','hoop apr agreement',1,0,'
Dan (and All),
Thanks for an excellent time last night. I had great fun (and managed to make it home).
Following the agreement I signed last night, and thoughts I have has since (which led to the recent phone call), here are some words which I think should form a more general aggrement between Members of Paneris and APR.
(Please note this is a simple reitteration of the paneris rules - www.paneris.co.uk and follow the link to rules).
The Members of Paneris (including HOOP) undertake not to enter into any financial arrangement with any customer of APR (including iglu.com) without express written permission of APR.
APR undertake not to enter into any financial arrangement with any Member of Paneris (except HOOP) without the express written permission of HOOP.
This is a reflection of the current situation, with APR acting as Partners of Paneris. Obviously if APR were to become Members of Paneris, the situation would need to be rethought.
I\'m sorry if this caused a misunderstanding on the phone, and hope you can see the logic and fairness of the arrangement.
All - please feel free to comment.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11020,'Thu Nov 12 19:47:14 1998','bug deadline',23,0,'
all bug and micro change reports will be in by next thursday.
I dont anticipate much, but iglu are being a little tardy about geting down to it.
In thier defence they have a great many balls in the air at the moment, but
for the prosecution their priorities are all mussed up.
here are a few crumbs ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11021,'Thu Nov 12 19:47:40 1998','search dropdowns',23,0,'
a couple of small changes to the dropdown lists in the property search..
I cant find group size in the look-ups, but I may be dim.
could soomeone either tell me where it is or change the \'up to four persons\' to
\'up to 4 persons\'
.......?
also - if i delete the \'long weekends\' option from booking period will there be any fall-out?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11022,'Thu Nov 12 19:50:30 1998',' booking payment cancel',23,0,'
in the booking payment form (where credit card deatils are entered)
there is no back or cancel button. Could we have one?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11023,'Thu Nov 12 19:52:48 1998','Re: booking payment cancel',23,11022,'
Also - out of curiosity - what is the significance of the red aserisk next to credit card number?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11024,'Thu Nov 12 19:58:31 1998','home page text',23,0,'
I have been given some text to include on the top page. Iglu claim that they in fact emailed this
to me some considerable time ago. I of course claim that no such email was recieved. The truth
about this may never be known - however I think it may be in the interest of the site if the text goes in.
However again - the text I have been given constitues a small encyclopeodia and I am endevouring
to get it edited.
to be continued...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11025,'Fri Nov 13 8:15:11 1998','Re: search dropdowns',4,11021,'
>I cant find group size in the look-ups, but I may be dim.
>could soomeone either tell me where it is or change the \'up to four persons\' to
>\'up to 4 persons\'
>.......?
You can edit it directly on the template (I wasn\'t really 100% aware
of Tim\'s pervasive dropdown management system when I first started or
it would have in a table).
But my manual of style tells me that `four\' is correct and more readable?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11026,'Fri Nov 13 15:18:35 1998','Re: home page text',1,11024,'
>I have been given some text to include on the top page. Iglu claim that they in fact emailed this
>to me some considerable time ago. I of course claim that no such email was recieved. The truth
>about this may never be known - however I think it may be in the interest of the site if the text goes in.
>However again - the text I have been given constitues a small encyclopeodia and I am endevouring
>to get it edited.
cool, please remember that the home page cannot scroll, so a maximum of a couple of sentences is not just sensible.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11027,'Mon Nov 16 11:55:18 1998','Re: Re: booking payment cancel',2,11023,'
>Also - out of curiosity - what is the significance of the red aserisk next to credit card number?
This is generated by SecureTrading whenever a field which is required
(at the moment this means the credit card detail boxes) is not entered.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11028,'Thu Nov 19 19:32:41 1998','bits and bugs',23,0,'
I have a list of stuff from iglu. Some of there claims may be spurious
but the server seems to be down so I cant check it out
here then is the unexpurgated version...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11029,'Thu Nov 19 19:34:10 1998','non published resorts',23,0,'
aparently the resorts tagged as not published are still showing up in results
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11030,'Thu Nov 19 19:36:44 1998','date search',23,0,'
can we prevent someone searching for a date that is before today?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11031,'Thu Nov 19 19:42:09 1998','property details phone type',23,0,'
aparently the phone tick isnt appearing in the details page under some conditions.
(I think its when the phone box is checked in the property admin, but phone type is set to \'none\'
does this make sence??)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11032,'Thu Nov 19 19:46:39 1998','bathrooms',23,0,'
aparently the no of bathrooms sometimes does not appear in the search
results page but does in the details page (is bathrooms in the results??)
for example see Cresta ApartHotel, Arinsal, Andorra
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11033,'Thu Nov 19 19:49:14 1998','resort details - fonts',23,0,'
the numbers for bars and restaurants etc are in a different font
to the rest of the numbers??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11034,'Thu Nov 19 19:50:11 1998','resort details - fonts',23,0,'
the numbers for bars and restaurants etc are in a different font
to the rest of the numbers??
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11035,'Thu Nov 19 19:52:12 1998','resort details - decimals',23,0,'
\'km of slopes\' and \'distance to slopes\' have decimals attatched.
They need to go
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11036,'Thu Nov 19 19:56:19 1998','resort details - creche',23,0,'
can we change the label \'creche\' to \'childrens activities\' ?
if so can we change the corresponding label on the admin side?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11037,'Thu Nov 19 19:58:19 1998','snow sport tips link',23,0,'
aparently - the snow sport tips link is jumping out of the frameset
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11038,'Thu Nov 19 20:04:47 1998','property admin - bedrooms',23,0,'
is it possible to have the \'no of bedrooms\' box on the property input form
default to 0 instead of null? (coz its mandatory and people forget)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11039,'Thu Nov 19 20:10:21 1998','book now link',23,0,'
is it possible to change the text on the \'book now\' link to \'check availability\'
as this more accurately reflects the function? (I cant quite remember if this is
a graphic or a text link - if its a graphic then forget I mentioned it)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11040,'Thu Nov 19 20:13:33 1998','results space',23,0,'
aparently, in either property or resort results, there is a superflouous wad
of space at the top between the nav bits and the first result. I think we fixed
one of these already - this may be the other one...?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11041,'Thu Nov 19 20:17:19 1998','property details pricing table',23,0,'
It has been mooted that some of the space issues with the pricing table
could be addressed by losing the decimal places from the prices.
I said this might create problems -
any thoughts?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11042,'Thu Nov 19 20:50:20 1998','home page text',23,0,'
Does this look workable for the top page?
[Iglu.com homepage with hot links to property search, resort search and forager]
Welcome to iglu.com!
Iglu.com offers the best choice of ski properties -over 4,000 across Europe- France is the main destination for skiers and we cover 60% of all chalets offered in France. We are expanding in Switzerland and Austria.
There are three easy ways to make a search based on what you want:
· The \'property search\': properties grouped by Country, Price, Group size, Type, etc.
· The \'resort search\': resorts based on Location, Number of slopes, Altitude, Difficulty, Children facilities
· The \'Ski Forager\' is a new, fun and dynamic way to find properties using \'fuzzy logic\'
You will then be given your own personal web page - just by creating your free group\'s login. You can then email the details of your shortlist to friends prior to booking.
Booking with Iglu.com: fill in the form, we will email a quote, then confirm by credit card.
We hope this will be a worthwhile visit for you. If you have any comments or suggestions on our service, please feel free to send them to us at comments@iglu.com.
© Iglu.com, October 1998
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11043,'Thu Nov 19 20:59:22 1998','booking dates (admin)',23,0,'
Theres a claim that the dates for travel are not saved onto the
booking request form like the property booking dates are. Is this true?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11044,'Thu Nov 19 21:04:32 1998','property search - booking period',23,0,'
this old chestnut...
the \'long weekend\' option in the booking period drop down...
1) if we delete it will there be any fall out?
2) Emmanuelle claims that she has already tried to delete it from the look-up
and it didnt work...?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11045,'Thu Nov 19 21:06:35 1998','booking accepted',23,0,'
on the booking accepted page - can we have the text
\'thank you for using the iglu.com service\'
?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11046,'Thu Nov 19 21:40:33 1998','search parameters stuff',23,0,'
I seem to have acquired the belief that if we change some of the look ups for the
search drop downs (ie price range) then this causes breakage...
a) is this correct
b) whats the situation with the other look ups?
c) if you change the ranges in the group size look up does it alter the
corresponding search results?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11047,'Thu Nov 19 21:42:02 1998','other stuff',23,0,'
I have a few other bits and pieces, but I think that they have already
been fixed, so Im giong to wait for the server to come back and check them out.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11048,'Fri Nov 20 9:29:56 1998','final feedback',1,0,'
Thanks for all the feedback, nothing looks too serious, so we should be able to tackle it all quite rapidly. I hope to have everything fixed by the end of next week.
This OK?
timJ
Will, Chippy:
You wanna fix bugs or have you got more important things to do? Let me know and I allocate things accordingly. My initial thought is to fix these myself (as we don\'t yet have CVS). This OK?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11049,'Fri Nov 20 9:49:44 1998','Re: final feedback',4,11048,'
>You wanna fix bugs or have you got more important things to do? Let me know and I allocate things accordingly. My initial thought is to fix these myself (as we don\'t yet have CVS). This OK?
Fine by me.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11050,'Fri Nov 20 12:55:08 1998','Re: final feedback',2,11048,'
>Thanks for all the feedback, nothing looks too serious, so we should be able to tackle it all quite rapidly. I hope to have everything fixed by the end of next week.
>This OK?
>timJ
>Will, Chippy:
>You wanna fix bugs or have you got more important things to do? Let me know and I allocate things accordingly. My initial thought is to fix these myself (as we don\'t yet have CVS). This OK?
fine with me.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11051,'Mon Nov 23 9:18:38 1998','Re: final feedback',23,11048,'
>Thanks for all the feedback, nothing looks too serious, so we should be able to tackle it all quite rapidly. I hope to have everything fixed by the end of next week.
>This OK?
better than ok
There are as I mentioned a couple of other things that I wanted to check out.
Been away all weekend so Ill get onto it today
jt
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11052,'Mon Nov 23 12:58:31 1998','search engines',1,0,'
All (especially Dan and Patrick):
I have done a review of the search engine submission for iglu.com. It is intended to be independant. Please take a look at www.paneris.co.uk/partners/apr/iglu/searchengines.html, and make any comments here (on the iglu messageboard).
Patrick: In order to facilitate open and documented communication, I have added you to the distribution list for the iglu project on paneris. This may mean you recieve a lot on irrelevant messages, but please just delete them. If you have any problems using the board, give me a bell, and I\'ll help you do it.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11053,'Mon Nov 23 16:16:07 1998','passwords',1,0,'
Dan,
Can I remove the password protection from the apr page?
I would like to use the iglu project as an example to future customers of how to get things right. (this should also be good for you guys).
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11054,'Mon Nov 23 17:26:10 1998','Re: passwords',21,11053,'
>Dan,
>Can I remove the password protection from the apr page?
>I would like to use the iglu project as an example to future customers of how to get things right. (this should also be good for you guys).
>Cheers
>TimJ
Dear Tim,
We would like to keep the password protection at the moment.
Hope this is okay.
Dan
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11055,'Tue Nov 24 10:54:44 1998','FIXED',1,11025,'
>>I cant find group size in the look-ups, but I may be dim.
>>could soomeone either tell me where it is or change the \'up to four persons\' to
>>\'up to 4 persons\'
>>.......?
fixed.
>But my manual of style tells me that `four\' is correct and more readable?
but in the context of all other items in the list using digits for numbers, it does make sense to change it.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11056,'Tue Nov 24 10:57:01 1998','Re: search dropdowns',1,11021,'
>also - if i delete the \'long weekends\' option from booking period will there be any fall-out?
no, although you will have to amend 4 customers who have chosen this as their prefered period for promotions. with this in mind, is it a good idea to remove it, it is obviously a popular option?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11057,'Tue Nov 24 11:01:21 1998','Charmettoger (4P), Arcs (Les), France',1,0,'
the main pic is on it\'s side. looks silly.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11058,'Tue Nov 24 11:14:56 1998','Re: Charmettoger (4P), Arcs (Les), France',20,11057,'
>the main pic is on it\'s side. looks silly.
Have told IGLU, I think they are fixing it, will update when I know.
Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11059,'Tue Nov 24 11:25:00 1998','FAO Chippy: booking payment cancel',1,11022,'
>in the booking payment form (where credit card deatils are entered)
>there is no back or cancel button. Could we have one?
chippy, can you advise re what to send to ST, and who to talk to there.
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11060,'Tue Nov 24 12:35:15 1998','Re: home page text',1,11042,'
John,
Please take a look at this, I have had to cut it down a bit. Also, someone who knows english should really write this stuff.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11061,'Tue Nov 24 13:05:38 1998','FIXED',1,11029,'
>aparently the resorts tagged as not published are still showing up in results
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11062,'Tue Nov 24 13:12:20 1998','Re: FAO Chippy: booking payment cancel',2,11059,'
>>in the booking payment form (where credit card deatils are entered)
>>there is no back or cancel button. Could we have one?
>chippy, can you advise re what to send to ST, and who to talk to there.
>TimJ
I have sent the 2 files to TimJ separately. He needs to alter these
and send them to anyone at SecureTrading. I have sent them previously
to
keith@securetrading.com (sales type)
rhys@securetrading.com (a techy - often less busy than Keith)
and asked them to put them in the iglu directory.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11063,'Tue Nov 24 13:16:04 1998','Re: Re: FAO Chippy: booking payment cancel',2,11062,'
>>>in the booking payment form (where credit card deatils are entered)
>>>there is no back or cancel button. Could we have one?
>>chippy, can you advise re what to send to ST, and who to talk to there.
>>TimJ
>I have sent the 2 files to TimJ separately. He needs to alter these
>and send them to anyone at SecureTrading. I have sent them previously
>to
>keith@securetrading.com (sales type)
>rhys@securetrading.com (a techy - often less busy than Keith)
>and asked them to put them in the iglu directory.
PS You have to include these 2 files and the graphics you want to appear
on the page to ST. You need to use: or
somesuch
>Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11064,'Tue Nov 24 15:51:19 1998','Re: Re: search dropdowns',23,11056,'
>
>>also - if i delete the \'long weekends\' option from booking period will there be any fall-out?
>no, although you will have to amend 4 customers who have chosen this as their prefered period for promotions. with this in mind, is it a good idea to remove it, it is obviously a popular option?
Popular it may be - but unfortunately it doesnt actually exist as a booking option...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11065,'Tue Nov 24 16:10:39 1998','FIXED',1,11030,'
>can we prevent someone searching for a date that is before today?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11066,'Tue Nov 24 16:18:04 1998','FIXED',1,11031,'
>aparently the phone tick isnt appearing in the details page under some conditions.
>(I think its when the phone box is checked in the property admin, but phone type is set to \'none\'
>does this make sence??)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11067,'Tue Nov 24 16:22:46 1998','Re: Re: Re: search dropdowns',1,11064,'
>>
>>>also - if i delete the \'long weekends\' option from booking period will there be any fall-out?
>>no, although you will have to amend 4 customers who have chosen this as their prefered period for promotions. with this in mind, is it a good idea to remove it, it is obviously a popular option?
>
>Popular it may be - but unfortunately it doesnt actually exist as a booking option...
fine, can I leave you to change the data?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11068,'Tue Nov 24 16:32:37 1998','FIXED',1,11032,'
>aparently the no of bathrooms sometimes does not appear in the search
>results page but does in the details page (is bathrooms in the results??)
>for example see Cresta ApartHotel, Arinsal, Andorra
confusion over fields, there are "nobaths" and "nobathrm" fields in property :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11069,'Tue Nov 24 16:38:28 1998','FIXED',1,11033,'
>
> the numbers for bars and restaurants etc are in a different font
>to the rest of the numbers??
>
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11070,'Tue Nov 24 16:38:45 1998','FIXED',1,11034,'
>
> the numbers for bars and restaurants etc are in a different font
>to the rest of the numbers??
>
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11071,'Tue Nov 24 17:09:06 1998','FIXED',1,11035,'
>
> \'km of slopes\' and \'distance to slopes\' have decimals attatched.
>They need to go
>
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11072,'Tue Nov 24 17:13:21 1998','ACTION JOHN: resort details - creche',1,11036,'
>
> can we change the label \'creche\' to \'childrens activities\' ?
fixed
>if so can we change the corresponding label on the admin side?
can i leave you to change the datadictionary.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11073,'Tue Nov 24 17:26:52 1998','Re: snow sport tips link',1,11037,'
>aparently - the snow sport tips link is jumping out of the frameset
this is because complete-skier.com has been cunning, reloading the entire frame set if the it is not the main frame, using the javascript:
easy really, has anyone got any ideas to get round this?
do iglu have a relationship with complete-skier, if so, they could negociate a a special way in. otherwise, we can do dynamic grab of the page and strip out the offending code (but this will take a little time i.e. iglu will need to pay)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11074,'Tue Nov 24 17:30:13 1998','Re: property admin - bedrooms',1,11038,'
>is it possible to have the \'no of bedrooms\' box on the property input form
>default to 0 instead of null? (coz its mandatory and people forget)
the point of it being mandatory is that it is important info used in the search, so setting it to zero sort of defeats the point of the exercise. if 0 is indeed valid, perhaps you should make the field non-mandatory, but this will mean the price search won\'t work too well
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11075,'Tue Nov 24 17:33:34 1998','Re: book now link',1,11039,'
>is it possible to change the text on the \'book now\' link to \'check availability\'
>as this more accurately reflects the function? (I cant quite remember if this is
>a graphic or a text link - if its a graphic then forget I mentioned it)
it is a graphic, and the change would extend far beyond the one button.
anyway you are doing far more than checking availability on the site, it really does allow you to book a property.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11076,'Tue Nov 24 17:38:16 1998','FIXED',1,11040,'
>aparently, in either property or resort results, there is a superflouous wad
>of space at the top between the nav bits and the first result. I think we fixed
>one of these already - this may be the other one...?
fixed in resort search results
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11077,'Tue Nov 24 17:49:16 1998','Re: ACTION JOHN: resort details - creche',23,11072,'
>>
>> can we change the label \'creche\' to \'childrens activities\' ?
>fixed
>>if so can we change the corresponding label on the admin side?
>can i leave you to change the datadictionary.
this appears to have been changed already
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11078,'Tue Nov 24 17:55:19 1998','FIXED',1,11077,'
>>>
>>> can we change the label \'creche\' to \'childrens activities\' ?
>>fixed
>>>if so can we change the corresponding label on the admin side?
>>can i leave you to change the datadictionary.
>
>this appears to have been changed already
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11079,'Tue Nov 24 17:57:10 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: search dropdowns',23,11067,'
>>>no, although you will have to amend 4 customers who have chosen this as their prefered period for promotions. with this in mind, is it a good idea to remove it, it is obviously a popular option?
>>
>>Popular it may be - but unfortunately it doesnt actually exist as a booking option...
>fine, can I leave you to change the data?
tis done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11080,'Tue Nov 24 18:08:32 1998','Re: Re: property admin - bedrooms',23,11074,'
>>is it possible to have the \'no of bedrooms\' box on the property input form
>>default to 0 instead of null? (coz its mandatory and people forget)
>the point of it being mandatory is that it is important info used in the search, so setting it to zero sort of defeats the point of the exercise. if 0 is indeed valid, perhaps you should make the field non-mandatory, but this will mean the price search won\'t work too well
0 is a valid value for hotels - of which there are many. How does the price search deal with this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11081,'Tue Nov 24 18:24:55 1998','Re: Re: snow sport tips link',23,11073,'
>>aparently - the snow sport tips link is jumping out of the frameset
>this is because complete-skier.com has been cunning, reloading the entire frame set if the it is not the main frame, using the javascript:
>
>easy really, has anyone got any ideas to get round this?
>do iglu have a relationship with complete-skier, if so, they could negociate a a special way in. otherwise, we can do dynamic grab of the page and strip out the offending code (but this will take a little time i.e. iglu will need to pay)
I did make explicit to iglu that this might happen when they started loading other peoples comntent into their frames - so lets not do any dynamic grabbing.
Ill mention the possiblity of a complete-skier mirror page to iglu, but its upto them to sort it out.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11082,'Tue Nov 24 18:43:13 1998','booking offer rejection',23,0,'
I may have asked this before, but is it possible, having wrongly filled in the booking offer and been rejected, to \'return to previous page\' and not lose all the data in the form?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11083,'Tue Nov 24 20:06:24 1998','FIXED',1,11079,'
>
>>>>no, although you will have to amend 4 customers who have chosen this as their prefered period for promotions. with this in mind, is it a good idea to remove it, it is obviously a popular option?
>>>
>>>Popular it may be - but unfortunately it doesnt actually exist as a booking option...
>>fine, can I leave you to change the data?
>tis done
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11084,'Tue Nov 24 20:07:23 1998','FIXED',1,11081,'
>>>aparently - the snow sport tips link is jumping out of the frameset
>>this is because complete-skier.com has been cunning, reloading the entire frame set if the it is not the main frame, using the javascript:
>>
>>easy really, has anyone got any ideas to get round this?
>>do iglu have a relationship with complete-skier, if so, they could negociate a a special way in. otherwise, we can do dynamic grab of the page and strip out the offending code (but this will take a little time i.e. iglu will need to pay)
>
>I did make explicit to iglu that this might happen when they started loading other peoples comntent into their frames - so lets not do any dynamic grabbing.
>Ill mention the possiblity of a complete-skier mirror page to iglu, but its upto them to sort it out.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11085,'Tue Nov 24 21:32:16 1998','Re: Re: Re: property admin - bedrooms',1,11080,'
>>>is it possible to have the \'no of bedrooms\' box on the property input form
>>>default to 0 instead of null? (coz its mandatory and people forget)
>>the point of it being mandatory is that it is important info used in the search, so setting it to zero sort of defeats the point of the exercise. if 0 is indeed valid, perhaps you should make the field non-mandatory, but this will mean the price search won\'t work too well
>
>0 is a valid value for hotels - of which there are many. How does the price search deal with this?
(tim thinks for a long time)
we did not consider hotels at all, the pricing "per room per night (based on x people)", assumes you are staying in a chalet, and works out the price of the chalet based on how many rooms it has.
from your comment, I assume that hotels are priced on a "per room per night (based on x people)" basis, and the number of rooms they have is irrelevent.
if this is the case, we can change the calculation so that is works ofr hotels, but first we need to establish that no chalets are priced on a "per room per night (based on x people)" basis.
when we have changed the calculation, we can make number of bedrooms non-mandatory.
hope this makes sense.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11086,'Tue Nov 24 21:35:49 1998','Re: booking offer rejection',1,11082,'
>I may have asked this before, but is it possible, having wrongly filled in the booking offer and been rejected, to \'return to previous page\' and not lose all the data in the form?
because the page is dynamic, the browser will go and grab a new one unless:
you change your browser settings to "check for newer versions of cached pages" only every time you restart your browser (not on every page). this is the default setting (i think).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11087,'Tue Nov 24 22:00:28 1998','Re: property details pricing table',1,11041,'
>It has been mooted that some of the space issues with the pricing table
>could be addressed by losing the decimal places from the prices.
>I said this might create problems -
>any thoughts?
it won\'t help, the column widths are defined by the size of the cells with the column titles in them, to help, I have reduced some of the fonts in these header cells, made the spaces between cells smaller, and combined the 2 date columns. is this better?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11088,'Tue Nov 24 22:12:03 1998','Re: booking dates (admin)',1,11043,'
>Theres a claim that the dates for travel are not saved onto the
> booking request form like the property booking dates are. Is this true?
no
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11089,'Tue Nov 24 22:12:26 1998','FIXED',1,11044,'
>this old chestnut...
>the \'long weekend\' option in the booking period drop down...
>1) if we delete it will there be any fall out?
>2) Emmanuelle claims that she has already tried to delete it from the look-up
>and it didnt work...?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11090,'Tue Nov 24 22:15:18 1998','FIXED',1,11045,'
>on the booking accepted page - can we have the text
>\'thank you for using the iglu.com service\'
>?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11091,'Tue Nov 24 22:19:05 1998','Re: search parameters stuff',1,11046,'
>I seem to have acquired the belief that if we change some of the look ups for the
>search drop downs (ie price range) then this causes breakage...
>a) is this correct
not really, the search uses a simple nautral language parser, so as long as the format of the option stays the same, it won\'t break
>b) whats the situation with the other look ups?
basically fine
>c) if you change the ranges in the group size look up does it alter the
>corresponding search results?
yes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11092,'Tue Nov 24 22:22:34 1998','Re: Re: property details pricing table',1,11087,'
>>It has been mooted that some of the space issues with the pricing table
>>could be addressed by losing the decimal places from the prices.
>>I said this might create problems -
>>any thoughts?
>it won\'t help, the column widths are defined by the size of the cells with the column titles in them, to help, I have reduced some of the fonts in these header cells, made the spaces between cells smaller, and combined the 2 date columns. is this better?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11093,'Wed Nov 25 12:27:21 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: property admin - bedrooms',23,11085,'
>>>>is it possible to have the \'no of bedrooms\' box on the property input form
>>>>default to 0 instead of null? (coz its mandatory and people forget)
>>>the point of it being mandatory is that it is important info used in the search, so setting it to zero sort of defeats the point of the exercise. if 0 is indeed valid, perhaps you should make the field non-mandatory, but this will mean the price search won\'t work too well
>>
>>0 is a valid value for hotels - of which there are many. How does the price search deal with this?
>(tim thinks for a long time)
>we did not consider hotels at all, the pricing "per room per night (based on x people)", assumes you are staying in a chalet, and works out the price of the chalet based on how many rooms it has.
>from your comment, I assume that hotels are priced on a "per room per night (based on x people)" basis, and the number of rooms they have is irrelevent.
>if this is the case, we can change the calculation so that is works ofr hotels, but first we need to establish that no chalets are priced on a "per room per night (based on x people)" basis.
>when we have changed the calculation, we can make number of bedrooms non-mandatory.
>hope this makes sense.
[john thinks for what seems like hours and is still confused, and then after spending half an hour writing a responce, forgets to fill in the name on the multiboard and loses the lot - *&£^&%*@@]
its like this as far as I can tell
chalets are generally priced per person per week depending on teh number of sleeps in the chalet. for some large chalets you can rent individual rooms, but this is being flagged with the multi room flag (for more than 12 sleeps) used for hotels.
>but first we need to establish that no chalets are priced on a "per room per >night (based on x people)" basis.
very probably not, but its hard to be absolute (the problem of induction..) however I dont think we can cater for avary possible aberation in pricing structure - so lets go for what generally works.
does this help???
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11094,'Wed Nov 25 12:42:25 1998','Re: Re: Re: property details pricing table',23,11092,'
>>it won\'t help, the column widths are defined by the size of the cells with the column titles in them, to help, I have reduced some of the fonts in these header cells, made the spaces between cells smaller, and combined the 2 date columns. is this better?
yes it is
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11095,'Wed Nov 25 12:48:07 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: property admin - bedrooms',4,11093,'
> very probably not, but its hard to be absolute (the problem of induction..)
> however I dont think we can cater for avary possible aberation in pricing
> structure - so lets go for what generally works.
The problem of induction has been solved by Bayesian statistics.
> does this help???
To be honest (and I\'m not fixing this, Tim is) I don\'t think "let\'s
go for what generally works" is really possible. We are not talking
about having a small random selection of searches fail. We are
talking about having ALL searches fail for a small selection
of properties. The owners will complain (if they are lucky
enough to notice) and there will be nothing iglu can do about it.
The underlying problem is that when we (I) dreamed up the search
algorithm, everyone seemed happy. Nobody said "whoa there, it\'s
even more complicated than that" and nobody had a strict definition
of what everything meant. I rather feel that if Tim is going to
spend a lot of time on this then iglu could be encouraged to chip
in a bit, since we have done well by them, it\'s their vagueness
which has led to the complication, and we were notified very
late in the day.
My €0.02. Tim may feel differently, and of course if there is
a quick "right" thing to do then there\'s no problem.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11096,'Wed Nov 25 12:56:38 1998','Re: Re: home page text',23,11060,'
>John,
>Please take a look at this, I have had to cut it down a bit. Also, someone who knows english should really write this stuff.
works for me. Must admit I didnt scrutinise the original very closely (confirm by credit card???)
the only thing is - maybe a few words of explanation for the various searches would be useful.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11097,'Wed Nov 25 13:45:59 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: property admin - bedrooms',1,11095,'
>> very probably not, but its hard to be absolute (the problem of induction..)
>> however I dont think we can cater for avary possible aberation in pricing
>> structure - so lets go for what generally works.
>The problem of induction has been solved by Bayesian statistics.
>> does this help???
>To be honest (and I\'m not fixing this, Tim is) I don\'t think "let\'s
>go for what generally works" is really possible. We are not talking
>about having a small random selection of searches fail. We are
>talking about having ALL searches fail for a small selection
>of properties. The owners will complain (if they are lucky
>enough to notice) and there will be nothing iglu can do about it.
>The underlying problem is that when we (I) dreamed up the search
>algorithm, everyone seemed happy. Nobody said "whoa there, it\'s
>even more complicated than that" and nobody had a strict definition
>of what everything meant. I rather feel that if Tim is going to
>spend a lot of time on this then iglu could be encouraged to chip
>in a bit, since we have done well by them, it\'s their vagueness
>which has led to the complication, and we were notified very
>late in the day.
Nice words william.
I think that we can make a small change to the algorithm so that
"per room per night (based on x people)" works for hotels. We should note that the algorithm does not at present return different results for different values of x (this needs addressing whatever we do).
the "per room per night (based on x people)" will not therefor take into account the number of bedrooms for the hotel, or the group size specified in the search criteria when calculating the "per person per week" price.
john - perhaps you should run this by iglu, so that we are not changing it again next week. they need to be clear that pricing on a "per room per night (based on x people)" basis is very different from the other pricing options.
>My €0.02. Tim may feel differently, and of course if there is
>a quick "right" thing to do then there\'s no problem.
what symbol is going to be zapped on our keyboards to make way for the euro symbol? surely they won\'t get rid of the £ ?
what do you all think of the harmonising tax regiems lark?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11098,'Wed Nov 25 13:47:03 1998','FIXED',1,11094,'
>
>>>it won\'t help, the column widths are defined by the size of the cells with the column titles in them, to help, I have reduced some of the fonts in these header cells, made the spaces between cells smaller, and combined the 2 date columns. is this better?
>
>yes it is
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11099,'Wed Nov 25 13:53:24 1998','FIXED',1,11096,'
>>John,
>>Please take a look at this, I have had to cut it down a bit. Also, someone who knows english should really write this stuff.
>works for me. Must admit I didnt scrutinise the original very closely (confirm by credit card???)
cool, but can you get an english iglu to read the text.
>the only thing is - maybe a few words of explanation for the various searches would be useful.
no room
really all this should be in help, which was excluded from the project, we should be careful about iglu getting it in via the back door.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11100,'Wed Nov 25 14:59:33 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: property admin - bedrooms',4,11097,'
>what symbol is going to be zapped on our keyboards to make way for the euro symbol? surely they won\'t get rid of the £ ?
Probably pounds, because it\'s all a plot by mathematicians to get more
pseudo-Greek letters onto the keyboard. We already have phi ø rho þ
delta ð and ß. Epsilon would be very handy. Pounds on the other hand
are no use. But we need $ for Latex.
>what do you all think of the harmonising tax regiems lark?
It won\'t happen. The Germans have proved themselves totally incapable
of reforming their tax system even without having to make it conform to
some external standard.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11101,'Wed Nov 25 16:42:59 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: property admin - bedrooms',23,11097,'
>john - perhaps you should run this by iglu, so that we are not changing it again next week. they need to be clear that pricing on a "per room per night (based on x people)" basis is very different from the other pricing options.
>>My €0.02. Tim may feel differently, and of course if there is
>>a quick "right" thing to do then there\'s no problem.
>what symbol is going to be zapped on our keyboards to make way for the euro symbol? surely they won\'t get rid of the £ ?
>what do you all think of the harmonising tax regiems lark?
iglu have given the go-ahead.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11102,'Thu Nov 26 11:14:53 1998','FIXED',1,11100,'
John: Please spend a little time ensuring that you are happy with the results.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11103,'Thu Nov 26 13:24:57 1998',' property search results',23,0,'
when I look for a property for more than 8 persons, but specify property type as hotel, I dont get any results. Wasnt the multiple room flag intended to deal with this?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11104,'Thu Nov 26 14:01:02 1998','Re: property search results',1,11103,'
>when I look for a property for more than 8 persons, but specify property type as hotel, I dont get any results. Wasnt the multiple room flag intended to deal with this?
no, the "allowmultiplebookings" flag simply allows proprties to be returned by the search if they have already been booked.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11105,'Thu Nov 26 17:52:38 1998','bookmark label',23,0,'
can we fix it so the bookmear label for iglu reads \'iglu.com - ski accomodation blah blah\'
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11106,'Thu Nov 26 17:54:06 1998','for chalet read accommodation',23,0,'
in domain information and in the promotions set up page there are still some lingering chalets in the text
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11107,'Thu Nov 26 17:55:38 1998','booking admin travel times',23,0,'
can we make the travel times in the booking admin page non mandatory?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11108,'Thu Nov 26 17:57:12 1998','customer numbers',23,0,'
the allocation of customer numbers may be being applied inconsistantly (ie some customers do av em and some dont) - please verify
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11109,'Thu Nov 26 18:02:26 1998','no of sleeps',23,0,'
one other tiny thing
in property details / sleeps section - the \'living room\'label is appearing even if there are no sleeps in teh living room. If we can get rid of this we will earn brownie points, but I have not made any promises...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11110,'Thu Nov 26 18:02:36 1998','the final countdown',23,0,'
once these have been done the fat lady will sing
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11111,'Thu Nov 26 19:35:25 1998','Re: bookmark label',1,11105,'
>can we fix it so the bookmear label for iglu reads \'iglu.com - ski accomodation blah blah\'
John, please can you get dan to sign off the keywords doc first thing in the morning. then i will go through and sort all this out
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11112,'Thu Nov 26 19:40:39 1998','FIXED',1,11106,'
>in domain information and in the promotions set up page there are still some lingering chalets in the text
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11113,'Thu Nov 26 19:50:28 1998','FIXED',1,11107,'
>can we make the travel times in the booking admin page non mandatory?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11114,'Thu Nov 26 20:38:36 1998','FAO CHIPPY: Re: customer numbers',1,11108,'
>the allocation of customer numbers may be being applied inconsistantly (ie some customers do av em and some dont) - please verify
This is occuring when you add new people to a booking. I didn\'t want to break your code, so please can you have a go.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11115,'Thu Nov 26 20:49:27 1998','FIXED',1,11109,'
>one other tiny thing
>in property details / sleeps section - the \'living room\'label is appearing even if there are no sleeps in teh living room. If we can get rid of this we will earn brownie points, but I have not made any promises...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11116,'Thu Nov 26 20:49:52 1998','FIXED',1,11086,'
>>I may have asked this before, but is it possible, having wrongly filled in the booking offer and been rejected, to \'return to previous page\' and not lose all the data in the form?
>because the page is dynamic, the browser will go and grab a new one unless:
>you change your browser settings to "check for newer versions of cached pages" only every time you restart your browser (not on every page). this is the default setting (i think).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11117,'Thu Nov 26 20:50:38 1998','FIXED',1,11047,'
>I have a few other bits and pieces, but I think that they have already
>been fixed, so Im giong to wait for the server to come back and check them out.
>
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11118,'Thu Nov 26 20:50:57 1998','FIXED',1,11088,'
>>Theres a claim that the dates for travel are not saved onto the
>> booking request form like the property booking dates are. Is this true?
>no
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11119,'Thu Nov 26 20:51:16 1998','FIXED',1,11075,'
>>is it possible to change the text on the \'book now\' link to \'check availability\'
>>as this more accurately reflects the function? (I cant quite remember if this is
>>a graphic or a text link - if its a graphic then forget I mentioned it)
>it is a graphic, and the change would extend far beyond the one button.
>anyway you are doing far more than checking availability on the site, it really does allow you to book a property.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11120,'Thu Nov 26 20:51:47 1998','FIXED',1,11028,'
>I have a list of stuff from iglu. Some of there claims may be spurious
> but the server seems to be down so I cant check it out
>here then is the unexpurgated version...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11121,'Thu Nov 26 20:52:17 1998','FIXED',1,11026,'
>>I have been given some text to include on the top page. Iglu claim that they in fact emailed this
>>to me some considerable time ago. I of course claim that no such email was recieved. The truth
>>about this may never be known - however I think it may be in the interest of the site if the text goes in.
>>However again - the text I have been given constitues a small encyclopeodia and I am endevouring
>>to get it edited.
>cool, please remember that the home page cannot scroll, so a maximum of a couple of sentences is not just sensible.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11122,'Fri Nov 27 11:16:30 1998','Re: FAO CHIPPY: Re: customer numbers',2,11114,'
>>the allocation of customer numbers may be being applied inconsistantly (ie some customers do av em and some dont) - please verify
>This is occuring when you add new people to a booking. I didn\'t want to break your code, so please can you have a go.
When people are added to the booking form they are not automatically given
a customer number. They _do_ get one when the group leader hits the
"Book now" ("request availability" now?). This is because we cannot
guarantee that the person has a surname (to use in the cutomer number)
until then.
Is this the problem? If so, I don\'t think we want to change this.
Thoughts?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11123,'Fri Nov 27 11:43:35 1998','FIXED',1,11122,'
>>>the allocation of customer numbers may be being applied inconsistantly (ie some customers do av em and some dont) - please verify
>>This is occuring when you add new people to a booking. I didn\'t want to break your code, so please can you have a go.
>When people are added to the booking form they are not automatically given
>a customer number. They _do_ get one when the group leader hits the
>"Book now" ("request availability" now?). This is because we cannot
>guarantee that the person has a surname (to use in the cutomer number)
>until then.
>Is this the problem? If so, I don\'t think we want to change this.
>Thoughts?
Agree, this is fine.
John:
The only situation where customer numbers do not get created is when people are added to the booking, this is because we do not yet have a name for that customer. When the booking is confirmed (requested), the customer numbers are generated.
There are several customers on the file that do not have customer numbers, this is because several programms were failing to create numbers up until about 3 weeks ago.
Therefor, everything should be fine from now on, although there will continue to be customers on file that do not have numbers, because the users have yet to give them names.
hope this makes sense.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11124,'Fri Nov 27 14:27:52 1998','Re: search engines',21,11052,'Posted on behalf of Dan by TimJ
I spoke to Patrick yesterday, and discussed the problems we have experienced in search engine registration, which Iglu are not happy with. It was agreed that Patrick would use new keywords listed below to get them registering with the engines.
All the best
Daniel
Ski chalet rental, Chalet rental, Ski chalets, Ski chalet, Ski chalet rental, Europe, European ski chalet rental, Ski holidays, Chalet holidays, Skiing holidays, Chalet skiing.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11125,'Fri Nov 27 14:32:55 1998','Re: search engines',1,11052,'
Dan,
Spoke to Patrick yesterday, and he suggested that a fiar compromise would be for you to pay him £300 for work already done. He will continue to do submissions with the new keywords with a view to the balance (£200) being paid when you and Iglu are happier (we have something to show for all the effort).
How does this sound?
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11126,'Fri Nov 27 17:37:35 1998','Re: Re: search engines',21,11125,'
>Dan,
>Spoke to Patrick yesterday, and he suggested that a fiar compromise would be for you to pay him £300 for work already done. He will continue to do submissions with the new keywords with a view to the balance (£200) being paid when you and Iglu are happier (we have something to show for all the effort).
>How does this sound?
>TimJ
To coin a phrase, sounds to me like fair play.
Dan
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11127,'Fri Nov 27 17:39:30 1998','FIXED',1,11110,'
>once these have been done the fat lady will sing
','f','',64,0,0);
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11128,'Fri Nov 27 17:39:43 1998','FIXED',1,11111,'
>>can we fix it so the bookmear label for iglu reads \'iglu.com - ski accomodation blah blah\'
>John, please can you get dan to sign off the keywords doc first thing in the morning. then i will go through and sort all this out
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11129,'Fri Nov 27 17:40:04 1998','FIXED',1,11049,'
>>You wanna fix bugs or have you got more important things to do? Let me know and I allocate things accordingly. My initial thought is to fix these myself (as we don\'t yet have CVS). This OK?
>Fine by me.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11130,'Fri Nov 27 17:40:33 1998','FIXED',1,11091,'
>>I seem to have acquired the belief that if we change some of the look ups for the
>>search drop downs (ie price range) then this causes breakage...
>>a) is this correct
>not really, the search uses a simple nautral language parser, so as long as the format of the option stays the same, it won\'t break
>>b) whats the situation with the other look ups?
>basically fine
>>c) if you change the ranges in the group size look up does it alter the
>>corresponding search results?
>yes
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11131,'Fri Nov 27 17:44:28 1998','FIXED',1,11020,'
>all bug and micro change reports will be in by next thursday.
>I dont anticipate much, but iglu are being a little tardy about geting down to it.
>In thier defence they have a great many balls in the air at the moment, but
>for the prosecution their priorities are all mussed up.
>here are a few crumbs ...
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11132,'Fri Nov 27 17:47:41 1998','FIXED',1,11124,'
>I spoke to Patrick yesterday, and discussed the problems we have experienced in search engine registration, which Iglu are not happy with. It was agreed that Patrick would use new keywords listed below to get them registering with the engines.
>All the best
>Daniel
>Ski chalet rental, Chalet rental, Ski chalets, Ski chalet, Ski chalet rental, Europe, European ski chalet rental, Ski holidays, Chalet holidays, Skiing holidays, Chalet skiing.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11133,'Mon Nov 30 10:29:57 1998','signoff',1,0,'
Dan,
yeti photos on cnn.com:
check out cnn.com, they have bits of yeti fur and a photographer who was attacked (they have his film)
anyway, can we sign off iglu.com. all you need to do to do this is to reply to this post with an affirmative message.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11134,'Thu Dec 3 18:38:41 1998','Re: signoff',21,11133,'
>Dan,
>yeti photos on cnn.com:
>check out cnn.com, they have bits of yeti fur and a photographer who was attacked (they have his film)
>anyway, can we sign off iglu.com. all you need to do to do this is to reply to this post with an affirmative message.
>Cheers
>TimJ
Yes, yes, oh yes!
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11135,'Fri Dec 4 10:10:34 1998','iglu hullabaloo',23,0,'
a casual enquiry
Richard is cranking up the PR machine and is looking to enter the site
in as many \'top site\' competitions as he can find.
He hasnt found many - any ideas where to look?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11136,'Fri Dec 4 11:05:59 1998','payments',1,0,'
Will, Chippy,
I have worked out the payment breakdown for iglu (on the iglu management page), can you take a look and let me know you are happy (or not). Can you then invoice me the outstanding amounts, I will then do the xfers.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11137,'Fri Dec 4 11:18:18 1998','archiving',1,0,'
I am archiving the messageboard again, please don\'t post until further notice (about 0.5 hours)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11138,'Fri Dec 4 12:44:53 1998','FIXED',1,11137,'
>I am archiving the messageboard again, please don\'t post until further notice (about 0.5 hours)
this is now complete
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11139,'Fri Dec 4 13:10:37 1998','Re: payments',2,11136,'
>Will, Chippy,
>I have worked out the payment breakdown for iglu (on the iglu management page),
>can you take a look and let me know you are happy (or not).
>Can you then invoice me the outstanding amounts, I will then do the xfers.
Tim,
Very happy. Tiny Tim (TimT?) _will_ get his turkey this year!
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/pm/cgi-bin/pm_edit_invoices.pl?table=invoices&id=143&partners_name_invoicefrom=20
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11140,'Fri Dec 4 13:34:58 1998','Re: payments',4,11136,'
>Will, Chippy,
>I have worked out the payment breakdown for iglu (on the iglu management page), can you take a look and let me know you are happy (or not). Can you then invoice me the outstanding amounts, I will then do the xfers.
cool, thanks
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11141,'Fri Dec 4 16:16:47 1998','invoicing',1,0,'
Dan,
All the APR invoices are up, use the invoice link from the APR page on paneris.
call if there are any problems
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11142,'Fri Dec 4 16:52:57 1998','paid',1,11139,'
>>Will, Chippy,
>>I have worked out the payment breakdown for iglu (on the iglu management page),
>>can you take a look and let me know you are happy (or not).
>>Can you then invoice me the outstanding amounts, I will then do the xfers.
>Tim,
>Very happy. Tiny Tim (TimT?) _will_ get his turkey this year!
>http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/pm/cgi-bin/pm_edit_invoices.pl?table=invoices&id=143&partners_name_invoicefrom=20
>Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11143,'Fri Dec 4 17:18:43 1998','enhancements',1,0,'
I have put up a document costing iglu\'s enhancements request. Please take a look.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11144,'Mon Dec 7 11:51:53 1998','Re: iglu hullabaloo',1,11135,'
>a casual enquiry
>Richard is cranking up the PR machine and is looking to enter the site
>in as many \'top site\' competitions as he can find.
>He hasnt found many - any ideas where to look?
http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/World_Wide_Web/Best_of_the_Web/
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11145,'Tue Dec 8 15:08:13 1998','curious phenomenon',23,0,'
a thing has occurred.
If you do a resort search looking for \'Italy - 3 valli\'
you get:
\'Error
Looking up id of record 3 Valli in skiresort
No records in skiresort with skiresort=3 Valli\'
yet, if you search on \'Italy - any\' - there it is
???
any ideas?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11146,'Tue Dec 8 15:34:11 1998','fixed',1,11145,'
>a thing has occurred.
>If you do a resort search looking for \'Italy - 3 valli\'
>you get:
>\'Error
>Looking up id of record 3 Valli in skiresort
>No records in skiresort with skiresort=3 Valli\'
>yet, if you search on \'Italy - any\' - there it is
>???
>any ideas?
um, there were 2 spaces between "3" and "valli". not very cleaver, but now fixed (in the database).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11147,'Wed Dec 9 14:48:00 1998','microsoft',1,0,'
Dan,
Perhaps this wil help you get a few of the devils tools:
http://www.microsoft.com/uk/channel_resources/directaccess/products.htm
aparently for £199, you get 10 MS products, including VisStudio and NT server.
bargain?
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11148,'Thu Dec 17 10:07:01 1998','Net Profit ',33,0,'Posted on behalf of Ed Ross by TimJ
Tim,
The iglu site got 5 star rating in the latest Net Profit magazine - well done! They did say that there were some dodgy translations from the French though - do you want some help with that?
Net Profit very rarely give out 5 stars so the team should be proud. Iglu will get a lot of traffic as aresult
Got the doc on SI - thanks
Ed
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11149,'Thu Dec 17 13:12:03 1998','registration',21,0,'Posted on behalf of Dan by TimJ
Dear Tim,
Both Richard and Emmanuelle are deeply unhappy with Patrick\'s work. In particular, they are unhappy and angry with the fact that Emmanuelle, who is a complete novice in HTML, was able to register keywords and the IGLU name within a week on a major search engine, whilst Patrick claimed that the registration failure was beyond his control.
This has, for all of us, wasted a lot of time and delivered abysmal results. What I have found difficult to reconcile is that Patrick represented his skill as a "black art" in which he had particular specialist skills, which was not the case.
Richard feels that he does not want to pay Patrick anything as he has provided misleading and incorrect excuses for why he could not register on the sites, which Emmanuelle has blatantly disproved. At the end of the day I will assume responsibility for this problem.
As discussed, I wish to terminate our work with Patrick immediately.
Hope you\'re having a good day too!
All the best
Dan
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11150,'Thu Dec 17 14:13:17 1998','Re: registration',1,11149,'
Dan,
I have spoken to patrick, and he has admitted defeat. We are both very impressed with emmanuelle\'s work, and are keen to glean some secrets.
I have deleted the invoice.
TimJ
>Dear Tim,
>Both Richard and Emmanuelle are deeply unhappy with Patrick\'s work. In particular, they are unhappy and angry with the fact that Emmanuelle, who is a complete novice in HTML, was able to register keywords and the IGLU name within a week on a major search engine, whilst Patrick claimed that the registration failure was beyond his control.
>This has, for all of us, wasted a lot of time and delivered abysmal results. What I have found difficult to reconcile is that Patrick represented his skill as a "black art" in which he had particular specialist skills, which was not the case.
>Richard feels that he does not want to pay Patrick anything as he has provided misleading and incorrect excuses for why he could not register on the sites, which Emmanuelle has blatantly disproved. At the end of the day I will assume responsibility for this problem.
>As discussed, I wish to terminate our work with Patrick immediately.
>Hope you\'re having a good day too!
>All the best
>Dan
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11151,'Mon Dec 21 12:33:55 1998','timeouts',23,0,'
Gentlemen
firstly - yuletide wassails to you all - and may the sun return once more...
secondly - theres a small prob with the iglu site. It does seem to be running enormously slow and timing out ( I have also had:
"Error
Can\'t connect to database: Updating activity record to mark script finish Can\'t connect to database: ")
I-way are claiming non-terminating scripts are responsible for massive system resource drain. Iglu are moping around in a most unseasonal way -
Please advise. Can we check the script logs and find out whats happening?
ta
jt
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11152,'Mon Dec 21 17:29:13 1998','Re: enhancements',21,11143,'
Dear Tim,
As discussed, please could you send in your costings for adapting the Iglu system to allow the entire frame to be represented on pages if accessed by search engine.
Seasonal greetings
Dan
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11153,'Tue Dec 22 12:57:27 1998','Re: Re: enhancements',1,11152,'
Dan,
We are getting error messages from the site concerning %ages for slope difficulties. The problem is that iglu are entering %ages where they should be entering actual figures (and letting the scripts calculate the %ages). This needs to be fixed (as the errors generated are making it more difficult to track the crashing problems), and will take 1 hour.
>As discussed, please could you send in your costings for adapting the Iglu system to allow the entire frame to be represented on pages if accessed by search engine.
What iglu infact want is to be able to refer to any page on the site with a direct url that will load the frameset and the relevant page. I have now done this, and it took 2 hours!
Can you give the go-ahead for these fixes.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11154,'Wed Dec 23 12:12:31 1998','Yuleness',122,0,'Posted to the old system by santa (santa@thepole.com)
A yuletide message awaits you at:
http://195.206.160.54/xmas/002.html
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11155,'Wed Dec 23 12:24:15 1998','Re: Yuleness',1,11154,'
>A yuletide message awaits you at:
>http://195.206.160.54/xmas/002.html
thanks. I think the film forager looks great too.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11156,'Tue Jan 5 22:35:15 1999','Re: Re: enhancements',21,11152,'
>Dear Tim,
>As discussed, please could you send in your costings for adapting the Iglu system to allow the entire frame to be represented on pages if accessed by search engine.
>Seasonal greetings
>Dan
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11157,'Tue Jan 5 22:38:31 1999','Re: Re: Re: enhancements',21,11156,'
Tim,
Please go ahead with enhancments for frames and %s up to a maximum of 2hrs.
All the best
Dan
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11158,'Wed Jan 6 20:13:09 1999','server reliability problems',1,0,'
All,
The iglu site has been going up and down since we started building it. During the development stage, this was (mostly) due to bugs introduced into perl scripts and VB executables. These have all been fixed.
Since launch, the server has had to be rebooted about once per week, causing agrevation to all involved (including other companies sharing the iglu server).
This thread is an attempt to draw together all the information we have about possible causes for the server failing, so that a way forward can be found and justified.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11159,'Wed Jan 6 20:23:14 1999','Re: server reliability problems',1,11158,'
On 21/12/1998 Nic Bacon (i-way) sent through a snippet of the perl error log. This contained a vast quantity of warning messages, and a couple of errors.
The warning messages were being generated because we were using the -w option in most of our scripts. The was fixed on 22/12/1998.
The first error was (eg):
Argument "20%" isn\'t numeric in multiply at E:\iglu\cgi-int\search\ResortSearchResults.pl line 185.
This was caused by an attempt to calcualte the %ages for ski slope difficulty when the figures are already recorded as %ages. Iglu have given the go-ahead to fix this, which will be done shortly. This error is minor and is unlikely to be crashing the server.
The second error (eg):
*** \'E:\iglu\cgi-int\ski\content.pl\' error message at: 1998/12/21 11:54:09
Error connecting to iglu: [-1036] [] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too many client tasks."
This is more serious, and it was originally thought that this was caused by scripts failing to close their odbc connection. On 22/12/1998 all scripts were reviewed and amended were appropiate.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11160,'Wed Jan 6 20:23:24 1999','Re: server reliability problems',1,11158,'
On 21/12/1998 Nic Bacon (i-way) sent through a snippet of the perl error log. This contained a vast quantity of warning messages, and a couple of errors.
The warning messages were being generated because we were using the -w option in most of our scripts. The was fixed on 22/12/1998.
The first error was (eg):
Argument "20%" isn\'t numeric in multiply at E:\iglu\cgi-int\search\ResortSearchResults.pl line 185.
This was caused by an attempt to calcualte the %ages for ski slope difficulty when the figures are already recorded as %ages. Iglu have given the go-ahead to fix this, which will be done shortly. This error is minor and is unlikely to be crashing the server.
The second error (eg):
*** \'E:\iglu\cgi-int\ski\content.pl\' error message at: 1998/12/21 11:54:09
Error connecting to iglu: [-1036] [] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too many client tasks."
This is more serious, and it was originally thought that this was caused by scripts failing to close their odbc connection. On 22/12/1998 all scripts were reviewed and amended were appropiate.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11161,'Wed Jan 6 20:24:24 1999','Re: Re: server reliability problems',1,11159,'
Dated 22/12/1998
>
> The problem is always the same:
>
> Error connecting to iglu: [-1036] [] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97
> Driver] Too many client tasks."
> You have too many copies of Visual Basic or Visual Basic applications
> running at the same time. Close one or more instances.
>
> Which does not appear to be a Perl related problem, rather it appears to be
> a problem with the MS ODBC manager. I think that it is likely that the
> problem is simply caused by too much server load, and it would be useful to
> know what the user stats were at these times yesterday, and at what time the
> Server was rebooted. The stats report at www.iglu.com/stats/report.htm does
> not give enough detail to establish load at these times. Also, do you guys
> know how to track ODBC calls, there appears to be a mechanism in the ODBC
> manager in the control panel.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11162,'Wed Jan 6 20:26:06 1999','Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',113,11161,'Posted on behalf of GrahamL by timJ
Dated 22/12/1998
Tim,
I\'ve had a bit of experience with the "Too Many client tasks" ODBC error.
The problem is caused by exactly what it says - there are too many database
access attempts. This is almost certainly going to be caused by failing to
close the database after use (ODBC doesn\'t do it itself!)
It\'s probably worth checking that there is a close database connection command
for every database open command in each Perl script. Obviously the close
command
must be run in every situation after an open - if it isn\'t it\'s one additional
process
that may never close.
This could also explain why the server has died at relatively quiet times -
it\'s been the build up of open processes over a period of time rather than a
sudden "large load".
Graham
>>
>> The problem is always the same:
>>
>> Error connecting to iglu: [-1036] [] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97
>> Driver] Too many client tasks."
>> You have too many copies of Visual Basic or Visual Basic applications
>> running at the same time. Close one or more instances.
>>
>> Which does not appear to be a Perl related problem, rather it appears to be
>> a problem with the MS ODBC manager. I think that it is likely that the
>> problem is simply caused by too much server load, and it would be useful to
>> know what the user stats were at these times yesterday, and at what time the
>> Server was rebooted. The stats report at www.iglu.com/stats/report.htm does
>> not give enough detail to establish load at these times. Also, do you guys
>> know how to track ODBC calls, there appears to be a mechanism in the ODBC
>> manager in the control panel.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11163,'Wed Jan 6 20:28:19 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',4,11162,'Posted on behalf of WilliamC by TimJ
>Dated 23/12/1998
I know next to 0 about NT but here\'s my €0.02:
In the traditional setup where you have a whole CGI process per
incoming request, my expectation would be that absolutely any kind of
termination of the process would lead to the ODBC session being
closed. (OTOH I realise that NT\'s notion of processes is a little
different.)
I don\'t know exactly what the ISAPI version of Perl does but one
may then be relying on (a) the script\'s own cleanup code and (b)
Perl\'s finaliser/destructor feature which the Perl/ODBC exploits (I
assume) to ensure automatic closure of the connection whenever the
object representing it is garbage collected or Perl exits.
As far as (a) goes, most if not all of the iglu.com scripts are
structured in such a way (using Perl\'s exception handling feature)
that the "close connection" code should always be reached.
HOWEVER, when we put in diagnostic script activity logging, we
discovered that if a user presses `stop\' in their browser partway
through a script running, the script is rudely stopped in mid-flow and
the script\'s own cleanup code will for certain not run. In that case
we would definitely be relying on (b), and there are obvious ways that
could fail: it might be that Perl cannot or does not take an
opportunity to tidy up after being told to terminate (I know that
Perl\'s POSIX signal handling facilities are unavailable on NT); it
might be that the old W32ODBC driver we are still using does not
do the right thing.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11164,'Wed Jan 6 20:33:59 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',1,11163,'
From searching the microsoft site, it appears that ODBC connections timeout after 600 seconds of inactivity. This means that any unclosed connections will disapear prety quickly anyway.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11165,'Wed Jan 6 20:39:48 1999','Re: server reliability problems',1,11158,'
On 05/01/1999 16:53, grahamL (i-way). Sent another perl error log file through.
This only contains one kind of error (although a fair few of them):
*** \'E:\iglu\cgi-int\ski\content.pl\' error message at: 1998/12/22 20:47:01
Error connecting to iglu: [-1036] [] "[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too many client tasks."
So, we had not solved the problem. Plus the server had gone down on xmas day!
Today I devoted serious time to finding the cause of this problem (although it is not clear that this is causing the server to crash, it could be and therefor it needs to be fixed and eliminated from the equation).
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11166,'Wed Jan 6 20:42:00 1999','Re: Re: server reliability problems',1,11165,'
I fired off this message to everyone who had had the same error (as found by altavista)
>Hi,
>
>I know this is a bit cheeky, but I notice from Altavista that you have had
>an error on your site.
>
>Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error \'80004005\' [Microsoft][ODBC
>Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too many client tasks....
>
>I am currently experiencing exactly the same problem, and wondered how you
>managed to fix it or if you can point me in the direction of any useful
>documentation.
>
>Apologies, but I am a bit desperate.
>
>Cheers
>
>Tim Joyce
>Chief Enthusiast
>HOOP Ltd
>tim@hoop.co.uk
>http://www.hoop.co.uk
>+44 1202 251 816
>
>HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
>Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
>
','f','',64,0,0);
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11167,'Wed Jan 6 20:44:02 1999','Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',1,11166,'Posted on behalf of Gary Hicks by TimJ
What site was this listed under? I guess I better resubmit it:-)
We solved the problem by switching to SQL Server. The error is a result of
Access not being able to handle more than about 6-8 simultaneous
connections. So we somewhat painfully migrated our Access databases to SQL
server. That solved the problem. As far as I know -- and believe me, I
researched the hell out of it -- there is no way to avoid the error if your
online Access dbases are reasonably busy. Except for some relatively minor
sql differences, it\'s not that difficult to migrate to SQL Server, abeit a
bit pricey.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11168,'Wed Jan 6 20:46:28 1999','Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',1,11166,'Posted on behalf of John Lauer by TimJ
Sure, the error comes from the Microsoft Access ODBC driver. It only allows
up to 10 concurrent database connections. If you\'re storing database
connections in session variables don\'t do it anymore. ADO has it\'s own
connection pooling so there\'s no need to keep connections persistent and
there\'s always workarounds for trying to keep a user at a specific record
between page hits. The best option though is to throw out Access and move
to SQL server, Oracle, or some other scalable database.
Good luck,
John Lauer
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11169,'Wed Jan 6 21:00:35 1999','Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',1,11166,'
We do not keep the connections persistant and are not using Perl so cannot do any pooling through ADO.
So it looks like we are genuinely opening more that 10 simultaneous connections, and need to move to a better database product. The site does get a fair amount of traffic, and with each request opening a couple of connections, it is very possible that this is the case.
We can:
a) migrate to SQL server (we need to find out if I-way provide virtual servers with SQL server). If not we need to host the site on our own NT server.
b) migrate to Linux / Postgres (it\'s free). Again this can be done on a virtual server or on a dedicated server. We have established that the site runs fine on Linux with postgres, except for the Forager exe, which should not be too much trouble to port?
This situation is urgent, as we need to establish a stable server.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11170,'Wed Jan 6 21:10:40 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',1,11164,'
From:
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/5/79.asp?FR=2
>Jet closes ODBC connections after a connection has been idle for approximately >the amount of time specified by the ConnectionTimeout registry key. (The >default value of ConnectionTimeout is 600 seconds.)
don\'t you just love the "approximately" bit :)
I have just thought that it may be worth reducing the 600 seconds to perhaps 60. This would ensure that any unclosed connections were more quickly cleared, which may help a bit.
If you (GrahamL) would like to try this, the key is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Jet\3.5\Engines\ODBC
Does anyone think that 60 seconds in too long/short?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11171,'Wed Jan 6 22:42:35 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',4,11170,'
>Does anyone think that 60 seconds in too long/short?
If 10 connections really is the limit then 60s is probably
fine. If scripts are going to take longer than 60s to complete
then the CPU load must way too high and it is better to kill
them than just bog down.
However---
do we actually have any evidence for the proposition that
going over 10 ODBC connections at once is causing the
server to crash? Won\'t the request for a new connection
just be refused and cause the script to abort?
My take on this is that fiddling with apparently
irrelevant tuning parameters amounts to nothing more
than the waving of a particularly scrawny dead
chicken. If we really want to find out what is
causing these crashes then we must either put
sufficient diagnostics on the server to find out
what is happening at the point when it goes down
or try out a series of measures in our own code
which have a plausible chance of stopping it
happening.
People tell me that we can\'t do either of those
things with the NT server as it stands.
I don\'t want to be rude, especially since I
don\'t have anything like enough NT experience
to make a definitive call on this issue, but
---I find that hard to believe.
However, if we are really completely powerless,
then perhaps we should think about porting the
whole caboodle to Unix. This would not be a
totally trivial exercise---largely because some
parts of the system are tailored specifically to
work around idiosyncracies in Access and the
obselete NT Perl ODBC driver---but it would not
be a huge job.
If we did that then we would, for certain, be
able to do a number of things:
1) we could use a free database engine with no
limit on the number of simultaneous connections
---if that is the problem
2) we could do meaningful debugging if we had
telnet access
3) we could forcibly prevent ANY script or
.exe from looping forever or holding an open
ODBC connection forever---if that is the problem
4) we could be sure that the OS/web server/
etc. would not crash all on their own every
week or so---which, anecdotally, cannot be
ruled out in an NT setup (from what I have
heard at second and third hand---as I said
I am no expert)
5) we could be reasonably confident that if
the web server or database was overloaded it
would not take down the whole system
In summary: if this was a Unix setup we could
do some meaningful debugging and take some
preventative measures that had a chance of
working. It goes against the grain to accept
that just because we are running on NT we
don\'t have those options available. But if that
really is the case then maybe we should say
NT just doesn\'t cut it and port the whole
site forthwith.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11172,'Thu Jan 7 8:18:23 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',1,11171,'
>>Does anyone think that 60 seconds in too long/short?
>If 10 connections really is the limit then 60s is probably
>fine. If scripts are going to take longer than 60s to complete
>then the CPU load must way too high and it is better to kill
>them than just bog down.
agree
>However---
>do we actually have any evidence for the proposition that
>going over 10 ODBC connections at once is causing the
>server to crash? Won\'t the request for a new connection
>just be refused and cause the script to abort?
no, there is nothing to link the "too many client tasks" to the server going down, but we do need to fix the problem because:
a)it has been identified by i-way as a problem on the site. Having a \'clean\' perl error log would significantly help us in saying that our scripts are not at fault for bringing down the server.
b) it may really be bringing the server down, which would be wonderful
c) users on the site are experiencing this error, and therefor are not getting the service they need.
>My take on this is that fiddling with apparently
>irrelevant tuning parameters amounts to nothing more
>than the waving of a particularly scrawny dead
>chicken. If we really want to find out what is
>causing these crashes then we must either put
>sufficient diagnostics on the server to find out
>what is happening at the point when it goes down
>or try out a series of measures in our own code
>which have a plausible chance of stopping it
>happening.
agree
>People tell me that we can\'t do either of those
>things with the NT server as it stands.
it\'s slightly worse than this, we don\'t have a log of _when_ the server goes down. If we had this (and a load report), we could relate the crashes to load, which would be a start.
>I don\'t want to be rude, especially since I
>don\'t have anything like enough NT experience
>to make a definitive call on this issue, but
>---I find that hard to believe.
>However, if we are really completely powerless,
>then perhaps we should think about porting the
>whole caboodle to Unix. This would not be a
>totally trivial exercise---largely because some
>parts of the system are tailored specifically to
>work around idiosyncracies in Access and the
>obselete NT Perl ODBC driver---but it would not
>be a huge job.
it runs on linux for you, I would suggest it is fairly trivial, except for the forager.
>If we did that then we would, for certain, be
>able to do a number of things:
>1) we could use a free database engine with no
>limit on the number of simultaneous connections
>---if that is the problem
>2) we could do meaningful debugging if we had
>telnet access
>3) we could forcibly prevent ANY script or
>.exe from looping forever or holding an open
>ODBC connection forever---if that is the problem
>4) we could be sure that the OS/web server/
>etc. would not crash all on their own every
>week or so---which, anecdotally, cannot be
>ruled out in an NT setup (from what I have
>heard at second and third hand---as I said
>I am no expert)
>5) we could be reasonably confident that if
>the web server or database was overloaded it
>would not take down the whole system
>In summary: if this was a Unix setup we could
>do some meaningful debugging and take some
>preventative measures that had a chance of
>working. It goes against the grain to accept
>that just because we are running on NT we
>don\'t have those options available. But if that
>really is the case then maybe we should say
>NT just doesn\'t cut it and port the whole
>site forthwith.
agree.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11173,'Thu Jan 7 11:01:47 1999','Re: hoop apr agreement',1,11019,'
Dan,
As requested, I propose the following agreement between HOOP and APR. I have introduced the word "deliberately" in order to avoid any honest mistakes by eithier party.
The Members of Paneris (including HOOP) undertake not to deliberately enter into any financial arrangement with any customer of APR (including iglu.com), who was introduced to them by APR, without express permission of APR.
APR undertake not to deliberately enter into any financial arrangement with any Member of Paneris (except HOOP), who was introduced to them through another member of Paneris or through the Paneris web site, without the express permission of HOOP.
This is a reflection of the current situation, with APR acting as Partners of Paneris. Obviously if APR were to become Members of Paneris, the situation would need to be rethought.
If this suits, I will turn it into a document which we can sign, otherwise, please make any amendments you feel are appropiate.
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11174,'Thu Jan 7 12:24:31 1999','iglu.com agreement',1,0,'
Will, Chippy and Dan
Sorry to make you do this again, but can you please print and sign http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/apr/iglu/agreement/subject.shtml as I got it wrong (1 word) last time. Can you send it straight to Dan.
Dan - can you confirm the agreement is now correct and let us all know your address.
Will - thanks loads for the cheese, how many times must it turn before it can be eat?
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11175,'Thu Jan 7 13:04:46 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: agreement',1,10945,'
Proposed text for the top of all generic libraries used in iglu:
#
# Paneris Generic Libraries
# Copyright (c) 1998 - The Paneris Community (www.paneris.co.uk)
#
# This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU Library General Public
# License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either
# version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This library is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU
# Library General Public License (http://www.fsf.org/copyleft/lgpl.html)
# for more details.
#
Comments?
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11176,'Thu Jan 7 14:02:37 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: agreement',2,11175,'
>Proposed text for the top of all generic libraries used in iglu:
>#
># Paneris Generic Libraries
># Copyright (c) 1998 - The Paneris Community (www.paneris.co.uk)
>#
># This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
># modify it under the terms of the GNU Library General Public
># License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either
># version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
>#
># This library is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
># but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
># MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU
># Library General Public License (http://www.fsf.org/copyleft/lgpl.html)
># for more details.
>#
>Comments?
Looks good. How about a new sentence in the 2nd paragraph summarising the
important bit of the LPGL ("you need to make your amendments available under
the same licence" or whatever)?
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11177,'Thu Jan 7 15:09:22 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: agreement',1,11176,'
>Looks good. How about a new sentence in the 2nd paragraph summarising the
>important bit of the LPGL ("you need to make your amendments available under
>the same licence" or whatever)?
I don\'t feel it\'s worth it, i will only get the summary wrong, which would render the whole thing pointless.
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11178,'Thu Jan 7 16:32:18 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: agreement',2,11177,'
>
>>Looks good. How about a new sentence in the 2nd paragraph summarising the
>>important bit of the LPGL ("you need to make your amendments available under
>>the same licence" or whatever)?
>I don\'t feel it\'s worth it, i will only get the summary wrong, which would render the whole thing pointless.
>TimJ
Fair enough. Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11179,'Fri Jan 8 10:22:10 1999','%ages',1,0,'
I have fixed the problem with %ages
timJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11180,'Fri Jan 8 10:23:31 1999','"straight-in" URLs',1,0,'
I have implemented this, and written brief instructions.
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11181,'Fri Jan 8 10:25:17 1999','Iglu Bespoke Perl Activity log',1,0,'
I have switched this off, which may help with our "connections" problem
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11182,'Fri Jan 8 10:28:28 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: agreement',1,11175,'
the Copyleft licence has been added to the top of all generic libraries.
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11183,'Fri Jan 8 10:38:21 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: enhancements',1,11157,'
Dan,
>Please go ahead with enhancments for frames and %s up to a maximum of 2hrs.
This is done, Invoice is up. Please note the outstanding invoice for will\'s classifier
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11184,'Fri Jan 8 17:22:40 1999','Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',23,11166,'
just to stir the pot...
I posted a question to experts exchange re the number of sinultaneous users on an access database and recieved the following response ...
--------------------
There is no documented number for the maximum users that can hit a shared .mdb, either simultaneously or otherwise, that I can
find. We have just recently moved many Access back end shares into SQL, but usually not for the reason that too many users were
hitting the back end (well, not directly for that reason).
It is recommended in the Microsoft SQL Server Developer\'s Resource Kit that you upsize for one of the following reasons:
1. The database is too big (100MB +)
2. You want to backup while the DB is still up and running
3. You can benefit from the client/server architecture (it would
neat if they would be a bit clearer on that!)
4. You could benefit from running many processes in parallel
The performance of Access vs. SQL over a network may actually be better if the file is small and few users hit it simultaneously. I think
that would be a totally subjective call. In other words, you\'ll have to guess just right before users start screaming at you! It would
probably be better to do it sooner than later, especially if you are inexperienced with SQL server, and you know that things will only
grow, not shrink.
I suppose that the benefits of the client/server architecture that MS refers to is that the mdb has to be handled by the Operating system,
which isn\'t very good at that, and SQL does it directly, so it knows how to get the info out to the front end in the best and fastest way
possible. Another benefit would be all the built in record locking and such that SQL is better at than Access, so if you have a lot of
users clobbering each other on the back end, that might be a sign as well (although we never ran into that too much ourselves with
Access).
We have seen SQL back-ends that ran slower than their just-replaced counterparts in Access when stuff was small today but bound to
explode tomorrow. The thing is, with the right indexes, performance generally doesn\'t degrade too much with time.
----------------------
also - I have a mate who works with access a lot and he reckons that the simultaneous user issue only really arises when writing to the database, not when reading, however he was unable to provide any real evidence for this.
On another tangential note:
we have just sorted some server space with totalweb solutions (totalweb.co.uk)
and they were not only friendly, efficient and cheap, but are in the process of setting up a SQL server hosting service that should go live by the end of the month.
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11185,'Fri Jan 8 20:56:16 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: server reliability problems',1,11184,'
>just to stir the pot...
>I posted a question to experts exchange re the number of sinultaneous users on an access database and recieved the following response ...
http://www.experts-exchange.com/ is actually very interesting, dunno if the paneris boys have seen it yet. I can\'t quite understand the points thing. The site would be improved if the search worked.
>
>--------------------
>There is no documented number for the maximum users that can hit a shared .mdb, either simultaneously or otherwise, that I can
> find. We have just recently moved many Access back end shares into SQL, but usually not for the reason that too many users were
> hitting the back end (well, not directly for that reason).
The connections issue is not about accessing the .mdb, but rather using Microsoft Access ODBC driver.
> 3. You can benefit from the client/server architecture (it would
> neat if they would be a bit clearer on that!)
This sort of implies some kind of ODBC type thinngy
>On another tangential note:
>we have just sorted some server space with totalweb solutions (totalweb.co.uk)
>and they were not only friendly, efficient and cheap, but are in the process of setting up a SQL server hosting service that should go live by the end of the month.
Yep but they don\'t offer perl support for NT (only ASP), perhaps we can suggest they trial it with iglu.
>On another tangential note:
Have you looked at the graphics Channel 4 News uses when doing it\'s "summary of other news items". Looks suspeciously like someone took inspiration for the border from the iglu design, with the transparent block effect. The new logo is also a bit igluish (although rotated 90 degs), it is in the top left!
When questioned on this subject, Paxman pleaded the "Michael Howard Rules" (remember him?), and declined to answer any questions. :)
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11186,'Mon Feb 1 17:45:47 1999','Apache Server - Teething Problems',20,0,'
All,
Having just installed Apache Web Server on my system, I have some problems.
I have a perl script in the cgi-bin directory they provide, this runs fine when run
from the command line, but I can\'t seem to access the cgi-bin directory.
When I use /cgi-bin/minimal.pl
It looks for /htdocs/cgi-bin/minimal.pl
Also when i use http://domain/cgi-bin/minimal.pl
It also looks for htdocs/cgi-bin/minimal.pl
The other thing is, when I am at /htdocs it refers to it as http://domain/index.html
not http://domain/htdocs/index.html
Is that some part of the problem.
Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11187,'Mon Feb 1 18:04:58 1999','Re: Apache Server - Teething Problems',1,11186,'
It looks like htdocs/ is you web server\'s root directory.
Try putting cgi-bin under htdocs/ (and making it executable or mapping htdocs/cgi-bin to your current cgi-bin directory
TimJ
>All,
>Having just installed Apache Web Server on my system, I have some problems.
>I have a perl script in the cgi-bin directory they provide, this runs fine when run
>from the command line, but I can\'t seem to access the cgi-bin directory.
>When I use /cgi-bin/minimal.pl
>It looks for /htdocs/cgi-bin/minimal.pl
>Also when i use http://domain/cgi-bin/minimal.pl
>It also looks for htdocs/cgi-bin/minimal.pl
>The other thing is, when I am at /htdocs it refers to it as http://domain/index.html
>not http://domain/htdocs/index.html
>Is that some part of the problem.
>Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11188,'Mon Feb 1 18:26:16 1999','Re: Apache Server - Teething Problems - Solved',20,11186,'
Thanks to Myles and Tim for their advice, Perl is no running. Nasty line in the srm config file. Why is this stuff never put in the help files???
Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11189,'Mon Feb 1 21:23:05 1999','Perl',20,0,'
Below is my Perl code so for for Perl Forager.
I need some help in creating a copy of the current record into something like a hash or a record from the SkiResort table, then using some of its fields to create a forager value, which would then be stored in a hash table.
Then I would repeat this with the chalets, adding its Resorts Score to the final score. Putting this total score into an array which would then be sorted. Providing an ascending list of IDs.
Any ideas you could explain to me would be greatly appreciated.
Ben Janes
#!C:/Perl/5.005/bin/MSWin32-x86-object/perl.exe
use strict;
use CGI qw(:standard param);
use Win32::ODBC;
my $DB=undef;
my $DSN="IGLU";
my $Prox=undef;
my $NLife=undef;
my $Diff=undef;
my $Price=undef;
my $FsPtr=undef;
my $LsPtr=undef;
my %Resorts=undef;
# Open DB through ODBC
if (!makeConnect($DSN)) {
exit();
} else {
}
get_Vars();
get_Resorts();
get_Chalets();
send_Results();
exit();
sub get_Resorts(){
my $Field1="SkiResort";
$DB->Sql("SELECT SkiResort.* FROM SkiResort ORDER BY SkiResort.ID;");
}
sub get_Chalets(){
}
sub get_Vars{
$NLife=param(\'NLife\');
$Price=param(\'Price\');
$Prox=param(\'Prox\');
$Diff=param(\'Diff\');
$FsPtr=param(\'FsPtr\');
$LsPtr=param(\'LsPtr\');
}
sub makeConnect{
my ($mDSN)=@_;
if (!($DB = new Win32::ODBC($mDSN))){
return 0;
} else {
return 1;
}
}
sub send_Results{
print header;
print start_html("Parameters");
print h1("Parameters");
print p("$NLife , $Price , $Prox , $Diff , $FsPtr , $LsPtr");
print $Resorts{"1"};
print end_html;
}
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11190,'Tue Feb 2 9:48:34 1999','Re: Perl',1,11189,'
>Below is my Perl code so for for Perl Forager.
>I need some help in creating a copy of the current record into something like a hash or a record from the SkiResort table, then using some of its fields to create a forager value, which would then be stored in a hash table.
just get the fields you are after, there is not point getting the entire record.
>Then I would repeat this with the chalets, adding its Resorts Score to the final score. Putting this total score into an array which would then be sorted. Providing an ascending list of IDs.
perl hashtables are very nice, have a crack.
>Any ideas you could explain to me would be greatly appreciated.
Ben, we are not supposed to be writing this for you, but we will help. Your code so far looks great, you just need to fill out the bits that do the work.
Nautrally, we are happy to write this, but surely the point is that you learn perl.
TimJ
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11191,'Wed Feb 3 14:56:25 1999','Success',20,0,'
All,
The SkiForager is now back up, with an improved Java front end and a Perl script back end.
According to Tim, the slow speed is due to the processor and and access/NT. Apparently Linux/postGres will speed it up considerably.
Thanks to William, Myles and Tim for help with the Perl and setting up Apache.
Ben
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11192,'Wed Mar 31 14:59:29 1999','out of memory',1,0,'
iglu went down with an \'out of memory\' problem (occured when running the larger scripts (chalet_search.pl)).
not a problem as we rebooted and it has gone away. it\'s probably just NT crap memory management.
however when looking through ther perl error log, i found numerours errors:
*** \'C:\InetPub\wwwroot\cgi-int\booking\booking_form.pl\' error message at: 1999/03/31 14:16:42
C:\InetPub\wwwroot\cgi-int\booking
which doesn\'t give you a lot to go on, anyway it is reproducable:
"your booking" button, enter userid tim and password tim, the page appears fine, but an error is generated.
doesn\'t happen on my box
non-urgent, but if anyone has any ideas (paticularly of how to get more info on what is generating a log entry), do tell.
timj
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11193,'Thu Apr 1 13:54:22 1999','Re: out of memory',2,11192,'
>*** \'C:\InetPub\wwwroot\cgi-int\booking\booking_form.pl\' error message at: 1999/03/31 14:16:42
>C:\InetPub\wwwroot\cgi-int\booking
>which doesn\'t give you a lot to go on, anyway it is reproducable:
>"your booking" button, enter userid tim and password tim, the page appears fine, but an error is generated.
I have no idea.
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11194,'Fri Apr 9 9:49:59 1999','shortlist problem',1,0,'
>>>>when creating a shortlist, if you havn\'t already logged on, you need to
>>>create a new group before the shortlist is created.
>>>>somewhere in the create group process, the property to be added to the
>>>shortlist is being lost.
>>>
>>>Thanks Tim - this is consistent with what happened to me in my original
>test
>>>last week
>>
>>would you like me to fix it?
>
>Yes plse Tim - thnx R
>>
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11195,'Fri Apr 9 9:50:47 1999','Re: shortlist problem',1,11194,'
Chippy,
Can you fix this please. I have said it may take a couple of hours. We invoice monthly.
Cheers
timj
>>>>>when creating a shortlist, if you havn\'t already logged on, you need to
>>>>create a new group before the shortlist is created.
>>>>>somewhere in the create group process, the property to be added to the
>>>>shortlist is being lost.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks Tim - this is consistent with what happened to me in my original
>>test
>>>>last week
>>>
>>>would you like me to fix it?
>>
>>Yes plse Tim - thnx R
>>>
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
65,'apr','apr Interface',865,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/apr/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/apr/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11196,'Mon Oct 12 14:38:14 1998','Lost message',1,0,'
Lost in the edit.
tpp 16/09/1999
','f','',65,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11197,'Mon Oct 12 14:38:14 1998','new tel no',1,0,'
Chippy,
many appologies, but paneris was out of date, apr new number is:
0171 535 8810
timj
','f','',65,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11198,'Fri Nov 27 12:02:27 1998','search engine registration',21,0,'
I spoke to Patrick yesterday, and discussed the problems we have experienced in search engine registration, which Iglu are not happy with. It was agreed that Patrick would use new keywords listed below to get them registering with the engines.
All the best
Daniel
Ski chalet rental, Chalet rental, Ski chalets, Ski chalet, Ski chalet rental, Europe, European ski chalet rental, Ski holidays, Chalet holidays, Skiing holidays, Chalet skiing.
','f','',65,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11199,'Mon Feb 1 17:26:37 1999','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',65,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11200,'Mon Feb 1 17:30:21 1999','messageboards',1,0,'
Ben,
Can you use the apr messageboard (this one), as you will then get automatically coppied on all replies.
OK, try and replace ACTION="/cgi-bin/minimal.pl" with action="http:://yourhost/cgi-bin/minimal.pl"
I think you have something funny in your set-up that means that / is actually /html.
Does the script run direct from the Address line of your browser?
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',65,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
66,'HRL','HRL Project',866,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/HRL/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/HRL/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11201,'Wed Sep 15 23:48:56 1999','HRL Contact FOA Richard',3,0,'
Richard,
In accordance with our policy, I am writing to get written
permission to contact HRL.
As I understand it this is unlikely to come off, but
would like to keep up the contact.
yours
Tim
','f','',66,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
67,'Miscellaneous','Miscellaneous Project',867,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/Miscellaneous/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/Miscellaneous/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11202,'Wed May 12 17:12:17 1999','Miss booking?',3,0,'
Tim,
at http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/pm/cgi-bin/pm_edit.pl?table=timesheets&id=756&tasks_task_task=347&return=pm_project_report.pl%3Fprojects%3D39
you seem to have booked one hour to Catalyst.
Can you sort it?
yours
timp
','f','',67,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
68,'NS','NS Project',868,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/NS/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/NS/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11203,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','NS visit report',106,0,'Posted on behalf of Liz Gale by TimP
Tim
Further to yesterday\'s conversation, I am attaching the files I have
received from Bowker Saur in connection with Webeq.
To confirm what was discussed yesterday at my meeting regarding the
problems with the second CD:
- I think that the majority of the errors may be caused by a change in the
data format in 1996. As a result the author name has been included as a
part of the Title for the Feature articles only. It appears in italic. When
I looked up several of the error entries in the existing CD Rom They could
not be found under their author name. Can you convert the italic codes to
something that can easily be searched for and is visible, such as *** and
+++ for start and end. If this gets the records into the infobase in a
reasonable format then we can manually correct these entries. (Bowker Saur
personnel will do this and it will be added to the timescale). Hopefully we
will still get a message on the log, so we know how many entries are
affected, but the other error messages for these entries will disappear.
- I have reported the missing graphic files that you have mentioned and New
Scientist are looking into this. Any other missing files will have to be
reported after the conversion has been rerun. hopefully there will not be
too many for them to be inserted manually.
- I can confirm that if possible any web addresses occurring in Author
details, or titles should be set as links if possible. If they cannot be
incorporated as links, as long as the Web address is printed in the
infobase this will be OK. Will these also be identifed on the log? Really
they should be moved out of the Author/Title fields into the main body of
the article, but this too is the responsibility of New Scientist.
I will telephone you at midday to find out the current status. We need to
get back to Bowker Saur today to give them some idea of when we will have
processed the whole file.
I am not working today, but if you have any questions I will be at home. I
will be in the office at Witney tomorrow.
Liz Gale
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11204,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','ISO entities',3,0,'
Liz,
I have put a file of all the ISO entities encountered
on the site (ents.htm).
Please download it and build it using Workbench, and
send me the resultant flat file.
This way I will be able to see which entities the import
filter fails on.
yours
Tim
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11205,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','Copy of Folio 4',3,0,'
Liz,
Can you arrange for Richard to send a copy of Folio 4
with the next set of data, so that I can test the Entity Rendering.
Thanks
Tim
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11206,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','Progress',3,0,'
Liz,
Have copied both CDs to my harddisk, and am now processing
both overnight.
Believe that I have dealt with most of the problems:
- Some of the \'wrong format\' errors
- Images which should be ISO entities
- Iso Entities which should be different
- Windows rendering of ISO fonts
will ring Wednesday with status.
yours
Tim
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11207,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','Project mothballing',3,0,'
Liz, Richard,
The site now reflects my machine,
and hopefully is self-explatatory.
In addition I will send a copy on diskette with my invoice.
yours
Tim
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11208,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','Document Format changed to HTML',3,0,'
The word documents have been converted to HTML
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11209,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','Processing Spec First draught',3,0,'
Liz and Richard,
The first draft of the Processing Spec is on the site.
Comments welcome as I have gone brain dead:)
yours
Tim
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11210,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:48 1999','New conversion processing',107,0,'
New Scientist Data Conversion last revised 8 June 1998
Processing for Release 1 of New Scientist
Individual files:
Process.pl
1) ? (TPP to complete)
Merged FFF:
ns_fff.pl
1) Locate the definition include tag (DI:) and replace with DI codes for NS.def, gif.od, and jpg.od
2) Remove records containing space
3) Remove records containing space
4) Insert Title field codes around the entire content of H4 records
5) Insert Author field codes around author names on H5 records (the author being everything after the record code up to but not including a newline or semicolon character.
6) Insert Code field codes around the contents of H6 records
7) Insert Issue_date field codes around the issue date at the start of H2 records
8) Change (.*?)
to $2
note the (necessary) use of non-greedy matching (change to TPP\'s original script).
conv_ns1
1) remove all hard codes with the exception of:
a) BD (convert to bold character style)
b) IT (convert to italic character style)
c) SB (subscripts left in)
d) SP (superscripts left in)
e) UN (convert to underline character style)
2) Convert £ entity to £ symbol.
3) Removed \'empty\' input \'records\' where empty means:
a) Contains only white space characters
b) Contains no characters
c) Record started with \'\' is followed by only white space characters or nothing
d) Record started with \'
\' is followed by only white space characters or nothing
e) Record started with \'\' is followed by only white space characters or nothing
f) Record started with \'\' is followed by only white space characters or nothing
Conv_ns2
1) Process level records (H1-H6):
a) Change levels to the next lower level (to correct earlier processing?): H5 to H6, H4 to H5, H3 to H4, and H2 to H3
b) Remove H1 records
c) Process level records H2 (now H3):
i) Store the issue date field contents and parse into month and year values
ii) If the year and month of the issue date are the same as the previous occurrence then remove the level record
iii) If only the month of the issue date has changed since the previous occurrence then insert a new H2 level record with the month number:
month
iv) If both the year and month of the issue date have changed since the previous occurrence then insert a new H1 level record with the year number and a new H2 level record with the month number:
year
month
v) Remove the Issue_date field codes but leave the contents behind
d) Process level records H3 (now H4): remove record if the month number has not changed
2) Change all records within a level to start with HR except for the first record after the level record (beware of the sequence RD:h3, RD:h4, RD, RD… where levels follow each other)
3) Insert the current issue date in a field at the start of a non-level record:
date …
4) Remove the two characters \'> where they appear at the beginning of a graphics field
Problems with conversion
1) Author names lost (due to font change codes?)
2) URL processing incorrect - losing some links and losing some data. Main enhancement required is to link references to other articles where possible and drop the link (only) if it cannot be resolved.
3) Entities not converted correctly - changing á to capital A instead of lower case
4) Non-standard HTML codes in use.
5) Some articles not in correct sequence.
6) Last 3 months articles manually converted, consequentially different coding and appearance.
7) Need to register Webeq software.
Required Processing for Release 2
Issues to be resolved
1) HTML to FFF conversion using Folio Filter or bespoke perl program?
2) Is it best to convert the HTML to FFF as individual files (after initial processing) or as a merged file (e.g. a volume)?
3) The conversion and build process should allow for files to be read from one or more CDs/disks if possible to minimize loading data on the Build machine.
4) Restart conditions and processing will be necessary without restricting processing to a specific PC or file structure (unless a standard file structure can be agreed)
Individual files
1) Convert all entity references to relevant characters, plus font codes where necessary.
2) Use characters instead of Webeq images wherever possible.
3) Create list of image files for inclusion
4) \'Inside Science\' heading levels(H4) - remove number following on the same line
5) Correctly process tables within articles if tagged as HTML tables. Ignore, but do not remove, if tab separated columns.
6) Process Title and Author fields. Author fields are identified by italic tags within the title element. Assume that the title really ends where the author starts. See eg\'s memo.
7) Insert record ids (hex). Volume (3 digits) + Issue (4 digits) + Article (2 digits) + (0=heading, 1=text). Convert number to hex, e.g. article 157/211502 results in a title of 5DB4924C and a text record of 5DB4924D.
This scheme will cater for maximums of: 428 volumes (107 years), 9999 Issues (192 years), 99 articles per issue (this last seems on the low side!)
I prefer a direct derivation based on the data to a lookup which is dependent on external files being kept in synch.
8) Plus… incorporate relevant processing from any/all of Release 1 scripts.
9) Query: can the \'redundant wrappers\' HTML files which contain links to the graphics files be dropped at this stage?
If yes, how do we link to the graphic? Please write up suggested method with examples.
Usage:
Perl newsci1.pl filein fileout
Where filein and fileout are supplied. Use a 1:1 relationship.
File merging
To be confirmed…
1) Merge in ascending sequence by file number within issue.
2) Merge issues in descending numerical order within volume?
3) Merge volumes in descending numerical order within year?
4) Merge years in descending numerical order within the infobase.
Usage:
Perl newsci_merge.pl files.lst
Where files.lst contains a list of the files to be processed (in the correct order?)
Merged file
1) Remove Hard Codes
Usage:
Perl newsci_vol.pl file.fff
Whole infobase/FFF
1) Remove unused Jump Destinations and invalid Jump Links
2) Include Jump Destinations for links from \'buttons infobase\'.
Usage:
Perl newsci_all.pl files.lst
Where files.lst contains a list of all FFF files which make up the publication (in the correct order)
Infobase Structure
RD:H1 = Year, e.g. 1997
RD:H2 = Month, e.g. October
RD:H3 = Issue, e.g.
RD:H4 = Category, e.g. Comment
RD:H5 = Article title, e.g. Mars Attacks Microsoft
RD = Article text
issue date Article text…
Article text…
Build notes
1) Use UK language module
2) Use stop words
3) Use headings index
4) Use Good/No compression
5) Use predefined templates
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11211,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:48 1999','Status',3,0,'
Richard and Liz,
I have got the process running so that
the new publication is produced at the touch of a button as shown in the current log
(http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/catalyst/NS/log.htm).
Now need to concentrate on the parsing of individual files.
Don\'t think that the program is ready for a walkthrough today
and that the best bet is to iron the bugs out here before
starting on the live data on Thursday.
yours
Tim
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11212,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','Project status',3,0,'
Liz,
I have updated the build steps and the processing spec.
Have left the system building overnight.
Fingers crossed...
Good luck with your exam and have a good time afterwards :)
Tim
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11213,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','NS Project status',3,0,'
Liz, Richard,
I have updated the project node, see in particular
the build steps and readme.
yours
Tim
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11214,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','Project status',3,0,'
I have created two scripts:
cut_fff_into_volumes.pl
which chunks the Release 1 flat file into its volumes
merge_ids.pl
which works through the volumes one at a time and compares the
Release 1 files generated by cut_fff_into_volumes.pl with
the latest build held in output/vol_no/vol_no_clean.fff and
produces a new file in output/vol_no/vol_no_merged.fff.
This last has been sucessfully built with the Release 1 volume
infobase as a master.
So I guess we have a success.
To finish the job:
1. Update HTM files with missing sections (inside science in particular)
2. Correct process_volumes.pl, so that it handles entities in level headings,
this could be a bit tricky, unless we hack it and just deal with _pound_
3. Rebuild all volumes
4. merge ids
This will involve a bit of manual intervention.
It took me an hour to go through vols 116-122.
5. Use Workbench to build against previous master
6. Integrate the above into process_volumes.pl so that we
don\'t have multi-step system.
yours
TimP
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11215,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','Project status',3,0,'
I have:
1. modified the .htm files and updated the changes log.
2. Corrected the entitiy processing so that titles, authora nd author notes
are checked for entities
3. Added a new para style called spacer after each record
4. Set off a build
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11216,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','Change to Extract?',3,0,'
It looks as though the extract settings on the build machine
have been changed to default to include IDs. (So breaking script).
PS I have compared def file with release 1 and made best guess.
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11217,'Wed Sep 15 23:46:49 1999','TimP\'s invoice for July',3,0,'
Richard and Liz,
My invoice for July is at http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/invoice.pl?show-/people/timp/invoices/74.html
and will follow in the post.
yours
timp
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11218,'Tue Nov 10 18:00:07 1998','NS fixes requirement FAO Liz Gale',3,0,'
Liz,
Richard tells me you have a few fixes you want doing
for NS.
Can you drop me a line?
The only one I am aware of is that the command line
processing has a bug.
yours
timP
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11219,'Tue Nov 17 18:17:58 1998','Re: NS fixes requirement FAO Liz Gale',3,11218,'
>Liz,
>Richard tells me you have a few fixes you want doing
>for NS.
>Can you drop me a line?
>The only one I am aware of is that the command line
>processing has a bug.
>yours
>timP
Tim
Sorry about the delay in replying to this email, I only picked it up
this morning.
Is the command line bug the one we spoke about a few weeks ago when you
said we did not need to key in the full command?
You said we could get away with:
perl process_volumes.pl newsci
(ie leaving out the input and output pathnames)
Apart from this there were 2 problems which I emailed you about in
August, I think.
I have attached the document as a word file and in html.
In fact I think that the first problem was corrected by Richard, but can
you please check that this is so. The second problem is, I believe, a
flaw in the original design wnich we had not anticipated when we decided
that the files would only be processed once. What are your thoughts on
this?
I will be working at home tomorrow and Wednesday if you need to contact
me. I am on a course, Thursday and Friday, but can be emailed.
Regards
Liz
Outstanding problems with New Scientist Processing
Date: August 19, 1998 (Updated November 16, 1998)
The Jump Destination for the Views Graphics link at the top of an entry, ‘Graphics’, which appears at the end of the entry above the captions appeared in black in Rel. 1. In Rel. 2 it was coming out in a unique colour that appeared as dark navy. The modification that was inserted to correct this worked in most instances but not all. When the caption contained a font change, eg an italic code, or subscript as in CO2 the code for ‘graphics’ was corrupted and the erroneous font code also appeared as text within the caption at the font change position. Richard amended the processing to solve this problem and I think it is now working correctly, but can you please check that this is so?
There appears to be an error in the processing which has resulted in the Year appearing twice for 1996, 1995 and 1994. The Year code has been output in the correct position and also before September, March and March respectively for the other years.
Since this was first noticed we have run 2 further updates where the latest volume is added to the front of the infobase. 1998 appears at the front of each new volume, so it is now coming out 3 times. On reflection this is obvious because the files are not reprocessed each time. I think the above examples may be instances where volumes were rerun in isolation.
I believe we have 2 choices here, either we insert additional processing to remove the year from the front of the \'clean\' fff, when we process for the next issue of the CD or we manually edit the previous first flat file as part of the production process. Any comments?
Please let me know the results of your findings asap.
Elizabeth Gale
Catalyst Electronic Publishing
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11220,'Wed Nov 18 12:42:58 1998','Re: Re: NS fixes requirement FAO Liz Gale',3,11219,'
>Is the command line bug the one we spoke about a few weeks ago when you
>said we did not need to key in the full command?
>You said we could get away with:
> perl process_volumes.pl newsci
> (ie leaving out the input and output pathnames)
The above is correct, but I have also corrected the bug itself.
>Apart from this there were 2 problems which I emailed you about in
>August, I think.
>I have attached the document as a word file and in html.
>In fact I think that the first problem was corrected by Richard, but can
>you please check that this is so.
As far as I can see, from just looking at the code, this is the case.
>The second problem is, I believe, a
>flaw in the original design wnich we had not anticipated when we decided
>that the files would only be processed once. What are your thoughts on
>this?
I think that we should run all files again from scratch, once we have safely
archived the originals. This will highlight any problems.
It is essential that any changes have been made to the \'input\' files, as
they will othewise be lost on a re-run.
As we said on the \'phone this re-run might be better after the 4.2 problems have been
dealt with.
yours
timP
','f','',68,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
69,'PetArg','PetArg Project',869,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/PetArg/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/PetArg/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11221,'Sun Jan 10 21:12:30 1999','Petroleum Argus - Flat File to HTML conversion, inlcuding file sp',106,0,'Posted on behalf of LizG by TimP
Tim
Please find attached a copy of the details for the HTML conversion
routine we require for Petroleum Argus.
I am sorry I have yet again failed to put it up on your site. I will try
to find time to do this from home in the next day or so. I have supplied
the spec. as an Word \'97 document and in HTML.
Theo should be able to supply some test data.
Merry Christmas
Liz
Requirements
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11222,'Sun Jan 10 21:14:23 1999','HTML File Splitting',106,0,'Posted on behalf of LizG by TimP
Tim
A Happy New Year to you!
We have eventually managed to contact the relevant person at Petroleum
Argus who is responsible for the HTML project. He does not like my
proposed naming convention, as specified to you. We may need to run a
comparison or some headings, such as \'Editorial\' against a list and
output more meaningful names for these sections, then just \'page1\' etc
for the headings that are not on the list.
This item is still under discussion and I will let you know the final
outcome as soon as I can, but I wanted to let you know of this hitch
asap.
We have also been asked to include the \'headline\' in the properties box
when exporting to HTML. This assumes we will be using Word, and I do not
know if you are. I also do not know what \'property\' he wants us to put
the \'headline\' into and what the \'headline\' actually is. I will find all
this out tomorrow morning - I hope - and let you know the outcome.
Regards
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11223,'Mon Jan 11 10:53:24 1999','HTML File Splitter',107,0,'
Tim
Thanks for putting up my emails.
Did you receive an updated copy of the spec. on Friday,
by email? You should have done.
You should also have received a CD ROM containing test data.
Let me know asap if neither of these items has arrived
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11224,'Mon Jan 11 11:16:29 1999','HTML File Splitter for Petroleum Argus',106,0,'Posted on behalf of LizG by TimP
Tim
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you but it took some time to
determine exactly what was needed by the US site who are to receive the
data, and how we could meet those requirements.
I have now attached a revised Specification in Word and HTML. I think the
file naming has been simplified. The main difference in the Specification
is the need to recognise specific sections in the infobases and treat them
slightly differently to the general case - in terms of marking the end of
the HTML file, and the content of the <title> field in the HTML.
We need to get this part of the job completed asap. Yesteday I sent you a
CD ROM containing the Views 4 infobase for one publication. Theo should
have the others available when you require them.
I am not working today - although if necessary I will be contactable at
home. I will be in Catalyst again on Monday and can arrange to come in to
meet you any other day next week, except Thursday. I will be in touch on
Monday for a status report.
Regards
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11225,'Mon Jan 11 16:31:29 1999','Record of Telecon',3,0,'
Petroleum Argus Website : http://www.sagewave.com/
user: dpilgrim
pwd: argusuk
Click on sources.
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11226,'Tue Jan 12 11:16:01 1999','HTML File Splitter Update',106,0,'
Tim
I have been in touch with Petroleum Argus re the current system for creating the HTML files you see on the Sagewave site.
The existing Folio Version is created by converting the Quark Xpress output used for the hard copy into RTF then importing it into Word and running it against macros to get it into the correct format for Views,add in the jump links etc.
These Word files are simply exported to HTML for the Sage project - a totally manual operation.
I am awaiting a response from Theo re Word batch processing.
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11227,'Wed Jan 13 21:07:35 1999','HTML File Splitter',106,0,'
Tim
I hope you received my note on the existing system (posted Tuesday) and Theo\'s email containing a Word Batch Processing Macro.
I had hoped to receive an indication of what you are able to achieve, and how long it will take by now. The customer phoned me today and I have promised to get back to him by tomorrow afternoon. I have told him that we cannot meet 15th Jan, but he needs to know what date we can aim for.
I am not working for Catalyst tomorrow officially, but I will be available until 11.00am and after 1.00pm. I look forward to hearing from you.
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11228,'Thu Jan 14 3:36:12 1999','HTML Batch conversion',3,0,'Posted on behalf of theo by TimP
Tim,
Happy New Year!
Liz has just informed me that you are looking for a batch conversion
macro to take files from Word to HTML....I have one which comes with
Office\'97 and which I have attached.
<>
According to Sandy this is the only file you need provided you have Word
97.
Meanwhile I am working on the conversion from Views 3 to 4, a job that
requires more proof reading than anticipated due to the frailties of
Folio\'s TableText Chain Filter ... however, the files with be with you
as soon as possible.
Good Luck,
Theo
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11229,'Thu Jan 14 3:49:24 1999','Re: HTML Batch conversion',3,11228,'
Theo, Liz,
I am very confident about being able to read the flatfile/def file
and produce lots of little rtf files.
The problem seems to then be two fold :
1 - the quality of the .rtf is a bit suspect
2 - how to get from .rtf to html
>Liz has just informed me that you are looking for a batch conversion
>macro to take files from Word to HTML....I have one which comes with
>Office\'97 and which I have attached.
> <>
>According to Sandy this is the only file you need provided you have Word
>97.
This would seem like a way forward, but my version of word just tries to
convert it into something else.
Have you tried it?
I am using word 7.0; i found several sets of instructions
on the web but they all assumed that when you
open a .wiz with word word understands it.
Now I have managed to get it into the _new_ section,
but it either \'cannot open document\' or
cannot open the wizard (I can\'t tell)
>Meanwhile I am working on the conversion from Views 3 to 4, a job that
>requires more proof reading than anticipated due to the frailties of
>Folio\'s TableText Chain Filter ... however, the files with be with you
>as soon as possible.
>Good Luck,
I think we will need it :)
Tommorrow I will finish the splitter, it would be nice if
we found a way of converting from rtf to html.
Perhaps you could play with convert8.wiz on a few .rtfs created
from views ? (export selection to word 2-7)
yours
timP
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11230,'Thu Jan 14 3:54:02 1999','Re: HTML File Splitter',3,11227,'
Liz,
>Tim
>I hope you received my note on the existing system (posted Tuesday) and Theo\'s email containing a Word Batch Processing Macro.
I did, thank you.
>I had hoped to receive an indication of what you are able to achieve, and how long it will take by now. The customer phoned me today and I have promised to get back to him by tomorrow afternoon. I have told him that we cannot meet 15th Jan, but he needs to know what date we can aim for.
Sorry, I am as bad as everyone else at _closing the loop_.
I have designed, and partially implemented the splitter, but the
conversion from rtf to html still seems shaky, I am hoping theo/sandy can
give me fuller instructions on how to use the convert8.wiz.
yours
timp
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11231,'Mon Jan 18 1:08:19 1999','split.pl',3,0,'
Liz, Theo,
On the site
there is a file called split.pl.
This should be used in a directory named as in the Requirement Specification,
eg AGM in which the flatfile and def file shoudl exist.
Usage:
Perl split.pl agm1997.def agm1997.def > log.html
If there are any problems then these will be printed to the log.
The script will create lots of directories named in ddmmyy format (not NOT PAddmmyy as per spec)
A batch file called convert.bat will also be created.
If the log is clear invoke the batch file from teh command line:
convert
This crashed on my system, but this is a Folio Problem, which you
probably will not experience ;-)
You should now have loads of rtf files, which Word should be able to convert.
Liz,
Please note that the Title handling cannot be implemented by our
current mechansim.
Hope all goes well,
timP
(from my death bed)
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11232,'Sun Jan 24 19:23:39 1999','HTML file splitter testing',106,0,'
Tim
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you. Richard has managed to cater for the logic changes in the specification, but testing this has highlighted a few problems with your processing:
1. Looking at the TOC in Folio it appears that the first article in an issue (The editorial), is different to the other articles in an issue. This is covered in the Spec. It appears that a result of this is that an erroneous pathname has been constructed so that the first issue from the infobase is missing. eg agm\\fff001, so that the first one to be produced is agm\151297\page23.001 (I think).
2. You are putting out leading zeroes in no. when you are constructing the filename. The current processing for the HTML pages created by Pet. Argus handles files named page1.htm, page2.htm etc, and must be matched (see my spec. this is the naming convention that the customer requires.
3. Objects do not come out on our machine - we have rerun from your last conversation with Theo. we need to drop the banner object that appears at the start of each Section, but all other objects must be kept.
4. There are error messages being produced, eg
create @c:xaom\\ . . . , which we think is to do with the missing level, but the messages are in DOS and we cannot scroll back to read them.
Sorry if these messages are not too clear, hopefully they will be meaningful to you. I discussed them with Richard over the phone on friday evening, but I do not have the latest data available to check against.
Please phone me to let me know what can be done. We need to run this asap as it is now running late. I will be in Witney on Monday.
Talk to you then
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
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11233,'Mon Jan 25 15:33:54 1999','Additional info. re file splitter problems',106,0,'
I have discussed your suggestions with Theo and have received the following additioal feedback.
The objects are missing from the rtf output produced by the file splitter. Theo does not see how Word can affect this.
The log.htm file when viewed via PFE or similar has a message saying that the date is invalid for the first issue in the file.
On examination it appears that PA produces a Christmas issue covering 2 weeks, ie 22/29 Dec.
If this is the cause of the rtf files being missing for this issue we can easily sort it out. Of course this may be a red herring.
I hope this information helps to resolve the outstanding issues.
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11234,'Wed Jan 27 2:38:43 1999','Re: Additional info. re file splitter problems',3,11233,'
>Richard has managed to cater for the <title> logic changes in the specification
Excellent.
>but testing this has highlighted a few problems with your processing:
>1. Looking at the TOC in Folio it appears that the first article in an
> issue (The editorial), is different to the other articles in an issue.
> This is covered in the Spec.
> It appears that a result of this is that an erroneous pathname has been constructed
> so that the first issue from the infobase is missing.
> eg agm\\fff001,
> so that the first one to be produced is agm\151297\page23.001 (I think).
Will put on site as soon as finished.
>2. You are putting out leading zeroes in no. when you are constructing the filename.
> The current processing for the HTML pages created by Pet. Argus handles files named page1.htm,
> page2.htm etc, and must be matched
> (see my spec. this is the naming convention that the customer requires).
Sorry, I knew it was what they wanted from the spec, but they are much more difficult
to process that way, but the customer is always right.
>
>3. Objects do not come out on our machine -
> we have rerun from your last conversation with Theo.
> we need to drop the banner object that appears at the start of each Section,
> but all other objects must be kept.
>
It looks, currently, as though this is due to a setting on Theo\'s Folio Builder which is not
set to record absolute pathnames in the .def file.
Will ensure that banner is dropped.
>4. There are error messages being produced, eg
>create @c:xaom\\ . . . , which we think is to do with the missing level,
>but the messages are in DOS and we cannot scroll back to read them.
These cannot be captured, as far as I know, as they are printed to stderr by Folio Create.
They will all/mostly be \'cannot find object\' messages, if they persist after we have cured
the missing object problem then they are a worry.
>5. The log.htm file when viewed via PFE or similar has a message saying that the date is invalid for the first issue in the file.
>On examination it appears that PA produces a Christmas issue covering 2 weeks, ie 22/29 Dec.
>If this is the cause of the rtf files being missing for this issue we can easily sort it out.
>Of course this may be a red herring.
This is a problem, as the section will not be properly processed,
either change the date to 29th or let me know the exact form of the date (22 - 29).
At the moment I think it might be easier to change the data.
I have been a little held up upgrading my computer,
but will address first thing.
yours
TimP
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11235,'Thu Jan 28 18:16:19 1999','HTML Progress',106,0,'
Tim
How are you getting on with the mods to the file splitter?
We are under increasing pressure to start running the production and deliver files to the customer.
I you can have a new version to send to Theo tomorrow morning that would be wonderful. If not can you give me an idea when you will have something?
So far we have only tested AGM - there are another 6 publications to go - no doubt they will all have their own quirks.
Thanks
Liz
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11236,'Fri Jan 29 3:17:55 1999','Re: HTML Progress',3,11235,'
Liz and Theo,
The latest version of the script is on the site.
It now takes an additional agrument of the publication abreviation.
1. Create a directory called AGM
2. copy split.pl into it
3. flatfile agm1997 into it
4. perl split.pl agm1997.def agm1997.fff pa > log.html
5. convert.bat
I have not managed to test the Folio part, so please let me know if it
is wrong.
I am not sure how to get rid of the logos, can you send me an example of
what is wrong.
The directory naming and page naming now work.
Please give me ring if there are any problems.
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11237,'Fri Jan 29 12:55:42 1999','Removal of "logos"',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Theo by TimP
Tim,
Thanks for the split.pl, I\'ve run it and it seems to work well apart
from the problem you mentioned regarding the dropping of the logos. Liz
tells me that, as a general rule, if there is an object before the
"title" then it should be removed. The "title" in this case is tagged in
the flat file as hidden text (<HD+>*<HD>) and occurs right at the
beginning of the file before any of the main record text.
e.g.
<pre>
<CM> ***********************************************
** Record Text **
*********************************************** </CM>
<RD,ID:2B7:Section><GR:"arbitrage
trade"><FD:"1998"><FD:"OCT98"><FD:"4Q98"><JD:"agm051098arb"><OB:FO:"Arbi
trage Trade logo"><HD+><PT:6>ARBITRAGE TRADE<HD><PT>
<RD,ID:2B8><GR:"arbitrage
trade"><FD:"1998"><FD:"OCT98"><FD:"4Q98">...blah blah blah...
</pre>
I hope this is helpful, if not give me a call.
Thanks
Theo
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11238,'Fri Jan 29 12:57:05 1999','Re: Removal of "logos"',3,11237,'
Theo,
Thank you for the example, I will incorporate it.
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
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11239,'Fri Jan 29 15:28:17 1999','Re: Removal of "logos"',3,11237,'
Theo,
latest version is on site.
Tim
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11240,'Mon Feb 1 11:51:59 1999','File splitter testing',106,0,'
Tim
Theo should have posted another infobase on the site
for you to work with. This is the file for LPG.
He has run your script against this file and although it generally
seems to be OK so far, there are 2 problems that require invetigation;
1. Issue 021195, page10 has 2 banners coming out, 1 at the top
and 1 at the end of the file. Both are the same artwork
and which belongs to the start of the following issue.
Page10 is the last file in the issue.
2. Issue 161095 has 8 fff files created in the range page 2 to apge 9.
The last flat file should be 9.
There is no page9.rtf file, and no page9.def file.
There is a page20.rtf and a page10.def, but the log for page10 says that no file was found.
This is correct because one does not exist. ALso note that there are no page 1 files.
If our copy of these files is any use to you we can post it to the site,but I
assume that you will need to run it for yourself.
If you have any questions let me know
Liz.
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11241,'Mon Feb 1 13:08:13 1999','Re: File splitter testing',3,11240,'
Theo/Liz,
The file upload didn\'t work.
There are two files on the site, but neither can be unzipped.
I have deleted them.
Can you isolate the problem, (they are big files)
and send a smaller nfo or fff?
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11242,'Wed Feb 3 3:32:44 1999','New version',3,0,'
Theo, Liz,
I have placed a new version of split.pl on the site.
I think it has dealt with the problems you were experiencing.
However, the RTF that is coming out now does not seem to
work with word.
Can word understand the rtf at catalyst?
The def file you sent did not contain absolute paths to objects,
and so object importation didn\'t work initially.
Remember to tick absolute paths before exporting.
Please let me know, preferably on the message board,
how you get on.
yours
timP
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11243,'Wed Feb 3 12:44:38 1999','Petroleum Argus - File Links',106,0,'Posted on behalf of Lizg by TimP
Tim
I have twice this morning keyed in a long message to you on your site from
egale@compuserve.com, only for it to tell me that I do not have write
access. Before entering the area I was asked and gave the correct user id
and password. Since it was OK last week from my own machine has something
changed, or am I doing something stupid?
Anyway I am now sending you the email conventionally.
Remember when we first spoke about Petroleum Argus I told you that the jump
links were not to be maintained because they did not have them in the
current files being put up on the Sage site?
Well PA has now decided that links are a good idea and proposes a manual
solution to including them. This is OK for the current system where the
links are inserted manually anyway, but for the historical data there are
over 20,000 links across all the infobases - that is a lot of manual work!
You asked me to include you at an earlier stage of the project, so could
you please look at the feasibility of a software solution to transforming
the folio jump links into the appropriate HTML links? Is this possible,
what will be involved and how long will it take?
I need to get back to the customer later today to say whether there could
be a program solution - I don\'t need any details as yet.
If you need any further information I am working at home today.
Regards
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11244,'Wed Feb 3 12:50:34 1999','Re: Petroleum Argus - File Links',3,11243,'
Liz,
>I have twice this morning keyed in a long message to you on your site from
>egale@compuserve.com, only for it to tell me that I do not have write
>access. Before entering the area I was asked and gave the correct user id
>and password. Since it was OK last week from my own machine has something
>changed, or am I doing something stupid?
We have been having some unwelcome visitors, who have altered invoices,
so I had to put a hasty security system together.
It would not have blocked you had you been at Catalyst.
Anyway, I realise that the message board should not be protected
this way and have unlocked it, so you should be able to use it again.
>Anyway I am now sending you the email conventionally.
Sorry.
>Remember when we first spoke about Petroleum Argus I told you that the jump
>links were not to be maintained because they did not have them in the
>current files being put up on the Sage site?
>Well PA has now decided that links are a good idea and proposes a manual
>solution to including them. This is OK for the current system where the
>links are inserted manually anyway, but for the historical data there are
>over 20,000 links across all the infobases - that is a lot of manual work!
>You asked me to include you at an earlier stage of the project, so could
>you please look at the feasibility of a software solution to transforming
>the folio jump links into the appropriate HTML links?
>Is this possible,
>what will be involved and how long will it take?
>I need to get back to the customer later today to say whether there could
>be a program solution - I don\'t need any details as yet.
I do believe it is possible, but tricky.
One has to build up a list of links and the files in which they occur.
However, as we are using Folio->RTF->HTML I doubt that the
Jump Destinations or Jump Links are preserved.
So we might need to insert them, which could get really nasty.
I think I had better ring you.
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
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11245,'Wed Feb 3 16:42:30 1999','Re: Petroleum Argus - File Links',3,11243,'
Liz,
I have checked and the hyperlinks are indeed lost during the
export.
What we could do is find every link in the flat file,
much as I currently find every object on the flat file,
and write out a little perl script to be run on each of the
.htm files produced by word.
This generated perl script would look for (see page 5)
and substitute it with an appropriate href.
This is relatively easy, compared to writing the converter,
but could get fiddly.
I would say that it would take me 8 hours over 2 days and
it would then probably take Theo a few days, and I bet it goes wrong,
so another 4 hours for me.
So say 12 hours in total.
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
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11246,'Thu Feb 4 15:40:39 1999','Re: Re: Petroleum Argus - File Links',106,11245,'
>Liz,
>I have checked and the hyperlinks are indeed lost during the
>export.
I understand from Theo that they become bookmarks. He has a macro that can be run against them to highlight each bookmark if it helps. He started to do something before they said they didn\'t want the links, but this was before the file splitting had to be done!
>What we could do is find every link in the flat file,
>much as I currently find every object on the flat file,
>and write out a little perl script to be run on each of the
>.htm files produced by word.
>This generated perl script would look for (see page 5)
>and substitute it with an appropriate href.
>This is relatively easy, compared to writing the converter,
>but could get fiddly.
>I would say that it would take me 8 hours over 2 days and
>it would then probably take Theo a few days, and I bet it goes wrong,
>so another 4 hours for me.
>So say 12 hours in total.
I have a feeling that they are definitely going to ask us to develop this. I have agreed to talk to the customer again when we have produced samples from each of the publications. We hope to do this today or tomorrow.
If you are sure that we can do something along the lines described above I will tell him that we can write a semi-automatic solution but that it will take some time - if I say 2 weeks will that be OK for you? (I have not spoken to Richard yet - he may have other plans for Theo}
Thanks for your help
Liz
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11247,'Fri Feb 5 11:21:46 1999','Re: Re: Re: Petroleum Argus - File Links',3,11246,'
>I understand from Theo that they become bookmarks. He has a macro that can be run against them to highlight each bookmark if it helps. He started to do something before they said they didn\'t want the links, but this was before the file splitting had to be done!
This sound useful, can you get him to send it to me,
or an example of an html file that has been produced after
highlighting.
>>So say 12 hours in total.
>I have a feeling that they are definitely going to ask us
>to develop this. I have agreed to talk to the customer
>again when we have produced samples from each of the
>publications. We hope to do this today or tomorrow.
>If you are sure that we can do something along the
>lines described above I will tell him that we can
>write a semi-automatic solution but that it will take
>some time - if I say 2 weeks will that be OK for you?
>(I have not spoken to Richard yet - he may have other plans for Theo}
This sounds fine, check with Richard about MY availability,
as he has some work planned for me in Feb.
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
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11248,'Wed Feb 10 1:27:23 1999','Petroleum Argus File Splitter',3,0,'
Tim
We sent off samples of all the Publications to PA on Friday.
They have just replied to say that we are not breaking the files down
correctly when there are lots of Heading 1s under a single Section
Heading. I have covered this in my spec. para 3.1.2. If this is not
clear each new Heading 1 should cause a new file to be output unless
it is one of the sections in the supplied list.
There are examples in LPG - the "Features" section is a good one.
Can you investigate and correct asap.
Sorry this is not on posted on the Paneris site - I am having Proxy
server problems!
Thanks
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11249,'Wed Feb 10 1:45:45 1999','Re: Petroleum Argus File Splitter',3,11248,'
>They have just replied to say that we are not breaking the files down
>correctly when there are lots of Heading 1s under a single Section
>Heading.
I think I mentioned that I hadn\'t done this, but can\'t find the reference,
perhaps I didn\'t.
>I have covered this in my spec. para 3.1.2.
I am afraid that the para numbereing does not survive the
processing to HTML.
This is a problem with internal refrencing, as well.
If you look at the document on the site you will see the problem.
>If this is not clear:
>each new Heading 1 should cause a new file to be output unless
>it is one of the sections in the supplied list.
>There are examples in LPG - the "Features" section is a good one.
>Can you investigate and correct asap.
Will do.
>Sorry this is not on posted on the Paneris site - I am having Proxy
>server problems!
:)
Maybe you could give me a ring, as I am a bit confused.
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11250,'Thu Feb 11 15:52:45 1999','File Splitter - revised Spec.',106,0,'
Tim
How are you getting on with the mods to the splitter? The customer is anxiously awaiting new test output.
I have updated the specification as we discussed yesterday, so that it only applies to your processing. The HTML title determination is now in another spec.
I am unable to upload the file from my home site, as I do not have the necessary access rights. I can do it from the office on Monday. If you need the revised spec. before then, let me know and I will email it to you, or you can get Theo to put it up from Catalyst - I have emailed him a copy.
Regards
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11251,'Thu Feb 11 16:03:42 1999','Re: File Splitter - revised Spec.',3,11250,'
>Tim
>How are you getting on with the mods to the splitter? The customer is anxiously awaiting new test output.
I think I have done it, see log.html.
>I have updated the specification as we discussed yesterday, so that it only applies to your processing.
>The HTML title determination is now in another spec.
>I am unable to upload the file from my home site, as I do not have the necessary access rights. I can do it from the office on Monday. If you need the revised spec. before then, let me know and I will email it to you, or you can get Theo to put it up from Catalyst - I have emailed him a copy.
You could send it to me as an attachement.
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11252,'Thu Feb 11 17:16:09 1999','Re: Re: File Splitter - revised Spec.',106,11251,'
>>Tim
>>How are you getting on with the mods to the splitter? The customer is anxiously awaiting new test output.
>I think I have done it, see log.html.
I have checked the log. Works brilliantly for Features ie when Section not on the list, but \'News\' and \'Shipping\' are both on the list for LPG and you don\'t recognize them. I cannot see anything wrong with the spec.. You output them on the log as News and Shipping
>>I have updated the specification as we discussed yesterday, so that it only applies to your processing.
>>The HTML title determination is now in another spec.
>>I am unable to upload the file from my home site, as I do not have the necessary access rights. I can do it from the office on Monday. If you need the revised spec. before then, let me know and I will email it to you, or you can get Theo to put it up from Catalyst - I have emailed him a copy.
>You could send it to me as an attachement.
Done
>yours
>TimP
I am afraid I am going to Henley this eveneing so I have to finish for the day now. I will check the board for messages when I get back.
Yours
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11253,'Mon Mar 1 14:50:16 1999','HTML Files - Link Code Format',106,0,'
Tim
Here is a copy of the emails received from Sagewave re Links:
Dominic,
-------
Liz
This mail from the US should answer your queries regarding fisbacks. It looks good!
Dom
-------
I think I have answers for you I hope. But from the e-mail that you sent
me, if I understand it correctly, there were two questions.
The first concerns the date within the A HREF tag. The date is something we
will use on our end to run a query to find the page that the fishback is
linking to. Just so you know the process a little better, once you send us
a zip file and it is loaded each page is given a unique record ID. The way
the fishbacking code will work is that the computer will replace the date
and pagex.htm within the A HREF tag with a unique record ID. The
date:pagex.htm is simply a reference to connect to the record id. We can
send you a list of record ids and you can link them yourself but I don\'t
think you would want to do that. So no, if you try to run the link to the
pages on your end it won\'t work. It is something we have to do on our end
to link the pages from the database. The specific date should correspond
with the date of the issue the fishback is being linked to. As I understand
it the zip files that you send are named for the issue and date that it will
be given within sagewave. ex.The file Gm010299.zip on SageWave will be
Global Markets for February 1, 1999. The date within the zip file is the
date that the A HREF tag should correspond to. So if you want to have a
fishback to this page it would look like
<A HREF="01021999:pagexx.htm">see the Feb. 1, 1999 issue</A>
The second question has to do with the setup of the archived files. I
believe they will be set up the same way as the issues you send now only
there will not be any headers. That is, the links will not be broken down
into different groups within the page. The archived files will simply be a
page with a straight list of headlines. And those headlines will be in the
numerical order that they come in. Page1.htm will be first, then page2.htm
and so on. What I was trying to explained to you yesterday concerning the
archived files is that each page within a specific date should have a unique
name. This is because the way we will set up the fishbacking code, the
computer will replace the date:pagex.htm with the record id that we have
within the database so that the pages will link up. Now if there are two
page3.htm within the date 2/1/1999 for LatAm Energy the computer will not
know which is the correct page so the fishback won\'t work. However there
may be duplicate names for separate dates. It is ok to have a page named
page5.htm for Global Markets 2/1/1999 and Global Markets 1/25/1999. Only
within a specific date for a specific issue do the pages have to be unique.
I hope this is a little clearer. Please let me know if you have any other
questions or if I can clarify this in any way.
Thank you,
Brewster
-----Original Message-----
From: Dominic Pilgrim <pilgrim@petroleumargus.com>
To: brewster.clancy@sagemaker.com <brewster.clancy@sagemaker.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 6:01 AM
Subject: Fwd: Fishback code
Brewster
Our programmers over here have asked about the code. I\'m forwarding her
email. Are there any issues here that you could clear up for us?
Dom
-------
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
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11254,'Thu Mar 4 10:20:23 1999','Petrolum Argus - file splitting (no heading articles)',106,0,'
Tim
As promised I have documented the spec. update that I could not insert online on Monday.
"For publication AGM only. If the Section text is not on the Appendix A list and is not followed by a Heading 1 record, but it is one of the following Sections then drop the Section Heading text. The text from the following record will then become the title of the HTML file. The file will consist of all the text from this point until the next section heading or new heading 1 record.
The applicable sections are:
Crude Markets
Arbitrage Trade
European Product Markets
US Product Markets
Asia Pacific Product Markets
Futures Markets "
I hope the changes are progressing well. I will talk to you later to find out the current status.
Regards
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11255,'Sun Mar 7 15:58:39 1999','Re: Petrolum Argus - file splitting (no heading articles)',3,11254,'
>Tim
>As promised I have documented the spec. update that I could not insert online on Monday.
>"For publication AGM only. If the Section text is not on the Appendix A list and is not followed by a Heading 1 record, but it is one of the following Sections then drop the Section Heading text. The text from the following record will then become the title of the HTML file. The file will consist of all the text from this point until the next section heading or new heading 1 record.
>The applicable sections are:
>Crude Markets
>Arbitrage Trade
>European Product Markets
>US Product Markets
>Asia Pacific Product Markets
>Futures Markets "
>I hope the changes are progressing well. I will talk to you later to find out the current status.
I have written but not tested this yet.
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11256,'Sun Mar 7 16:00:20 1999','Status on sunday afternoon',3,0,'
Liz,
I have written some instructions, which are on the site.
The converter need a little bit more work on it,
as does the HTML mangler.
I hope to make soem more progress before tomorrow morning.
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11257,'Sun Mar 7 22:48:07 1999','Folio bug :(',3,0,'
Liz,
I have been plagued since yesterday with a bug -
it seemed as though I was loosing certain objects.
It turns out that this is caused by a Folio feature:
If you name an object with correct possesive puctuation
ie using single closing quote \x92 it is correctly referred to in
the .def file but the \x92 is converted to the single quote of the keyboard in the .fff
So I was getting a mismatch between names in the two files.
I am sorry but this has taken 5 hours, during which I changed
just about everything :(
Anyway, now I have it identified I have hacked around it.
I still hope to have a runner by tommorrow.
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11258,'Mon Mar 8 0:26:38 1999','Deletion of files ',3,0,'
Liz,
I think that the change that Richard made was not
correct.
I think that there is a requirement to delete silly files,
but that Richard\'s mechanism deletes important information.
So I need to know exactly which files need to be deleted.
yours
tim
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11259,'Mon Mar 8 0:46:28 1999','Sunday status (final?)',3,0,'
Liz,
I have changed split.pl so that it works on a whole publication at a time.
It is now a very long batch job.
What I have still got to do is the html manipulation,
but I have found the perl HTML module and copied a program from Myles which uses it.
I have added the ability to delete all the files that are created, as this
is a pain to do manually.
It is a bit late now but hope to be in by 11.
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11260,'Mon Mar 8 0:51:39 1999','New script',3,0,'
Theo,
I have put the new script on the site, it is called process.pl
You run it differently than before:
perl process.pl pa > log.html
It assumes you have placed the .fff amd .def files for pa
into a directory called pa.
It creates all the rtf files in a single directory as you asked.
I will be in by 11, but if you want to have a go before then feel free,
I am sure we will have to run this MANY times, so one more may get us a head start.
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11261,'Mon Mar 8 10:55:25 1999','Re: Deletion of files ',106,11258,'
>Liz,
>I think that the change that Richard made was not
>correct.
>I think that there is a requirement to delete silly files,
>but that Richard\'s mechanism deletes important information.
What important information is deleted?
>So I need to know exactly which files need to be deleted.
My original instruction to Richard specified that he should delete all files which contained the headings which you select from the list and which therefore go out as basically 1 line files.
We then discovered that this did not cater for all the rubbish we needed to remove so I asked him to delete all files containing either a nbsp and a title record only, or just a title record with the {/html} tag at the end.
I will post this on the site. As far as I know this instruction is still correct.
There is also the need to delete certain specific section ( marked ignore in your spec.) plus the last file in each issue needs to be dropped, but I don\'t know if this mod. has been actioned.
>yours
>tim
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11262,'Mon Mar 8 11:52:50 1999','HTML title insertion',106,0,'
Tim
I will put a revised copy of the Title insertion spec. up when I have updated it.
Until then here is the gist of the processing that should be done by Richards script.
---------
11.02.99
Richard
As promised I have attached a copy of the specification for the script to insert the correct text in the HTML title field. I have split the original specification into two. I have also included a copy of the revised spec. for Tim\'s file splitter.
The changes from the original request are, as far as I know:
1. The record containing the text that is inserted in the <title> tags should always be deleted, regardless of whether the source is the first or second bold text in the body.
2. If the Text matches one of the headings in the Appendix A list that is prefixed by \'Ignore\' the whole file should be dropped. The numbering will be unchanged. It does not matter if there are gaps in the sequence as long as they have been captured sequentially.
---------
16.02.99
Richard
As we suspected from Theo\'s assessment of the latest files run through Tim\'s file splitter, my specification for the title insertion is once more incorrect.
It is now very straightforward:
1. the first para. in the body of the HTML file contains only and can be dropped. (apparently this should be - If it contains this only it can be dropped - not always present.)
2. The following record contains the text to be inserted in the title field. It can then be dropped from the body of the data.
3. A file that has a <body> section containing the above 1 or 2 records only should be dropped in its entirety. In this instance the {body} tag appears at the end of the second record and the following record is {/html}.
---------
25.02.99 (extract)
When the following titles are encountered the entire file should be dropped in the same way as "Looking Ahead" in AGM.
Pub. Text
WPA PETROLEUM ARGUS - WEEKLY PETROLEUM ARGUS
AGM PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GLOBAL MARKETS
FSU PETROLEUM ARGUS - FSU ENERGY
AGC PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GAS CONNECTIONS
LPG PETROLEUM ARGUS - LPG WORLD
LATAM PETROLEUM ARGUS - LATAM ENERGY
---------
I am not certain that the last item has been implemented but it is a requirement.
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11263,'Mon Mar 8 14:32:37 1999','HTML Title Insertion - general rules',106,0,'
Tim
I will put a revised copy of the Title insertion spec. up when I have updated it.
Until then here is the gist of the processing that should be done by Richards script.
---------
11.02.99
Richard
As promised I have attached a copy of the specification for the script to insert the correct text in the HTML title
field. I have split the original specification into two. I have also included a copy of the revised spec. for Tim\'s file
splitter.
The changes from the original request are, as far as I know:
1. The record containing the text that is inserted in the {title} tags should always be deleted, regardless of whether the source is the first or second bold text in the body.
2.If the Text matches one of the headings in the Appendix A list that is prefixed by \'Ignore\' the whole file should be dropped. The numbering will be unchanged. It does not matter if there are gaps in the sequence as long as they have been captured sequentially.
----------
16.02.99(Updated 8/3/99)
As we suspected from Theo\'s assessment of the latest files run through Tim\'s file splitter, my specification for the title insertion is once more incorrect.
It is now very straightforward:
1. If the first para. in the body of the HTML file contains it can be dropped.
2. The following record/or the first if no space line, contains the text to be inserted in the title field. It can then be dropped from the body of the data.
3. A file that has a body containing the above record/s only should be dropped in its entirety. In this instance the {body} tag appears at the end of the second record and the following record is {/html}.
----------
25.02.99 (extract)
Petroleum Argus have previously asked us to drop the last file in each issue as it contains editorial details.
As these are not present in all cases it will be necessary to identify the relevant section from their section title.
Pub. Text
WPA PETROLEUM ARGUS - WEEKLY PETROLEUM ARGUS
AGM PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GLOBAL MARKETS
FSU PETROLEUM ARGUS - FSU ENERGY
AGC PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GAS CONNECTIONS
LPG PETROLEUM ARGUS - LPG WORLD
LATAM PETROLEUM ARGUS - LATAM ENERGY
Files with the above titles in the relevant publication should be dropped, in the same way as "Looking Ahead" in AGM.
The above extracts should contain the vital ingredients of the HTML file conversion script.
Liz Gale
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11264,'Mon Mar 8 16:44:34 1999','AGM special sections',106,0,'
Tim
Sorry, I forgot to remind to before you left to ensure that you check that the special sections in AGM are being handled correctly.
Good Luck!
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11265,'Wed Mar 17 20:28:44 1999','Status as at 20.16 17/03/99',3,0,'
After a nerve racking nigfht and day we seem to be on top(ish).
the system works and outputs pages with links and images.
Todo:
Massage resultant html to a higher quality:
Remove meta tags
Remove leading nbsps
Move Titles
Dump unwanted files (including moving any desinations to nearest neighbour)
Rename files to .htm (currently final files are .html)
See you tomorrow
Timp
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11266,'Thu Mar 18 1:27:25 1999','Re: Status as at 20.16 17/03/99',3,11265,'
Theo,
I have placed process.pl and restructure.pl on the site.
They are the latest versions off the build machine.
(I have not changed them since).
I have updated the build steps document, but nothing has changed.
See you tommorrow
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11267,'Sun Mar 21 14:20:18 1999','Status as of Sunday 21/03/99',3,0,'
All publications have been processed and created.
One burnt to CD.
Theo is hopeful of finishing all today.
We have used the following algorithm for resizing graphics:
if (width > 1000) the width =width/2; height=height/2
We have dealt with sections not in list and not follwoed by an H1.
Jump links are working.
Non graphics logos are stripped.
The HTML produced does not contain Microsoft headers or leading nbsps.
Output files are now named .htm
The only outstanding issue is that there are non matched
character style tags which occur outside P tags.
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11268,'Tue Mar 23 9:31:43 1999','Re: Status as of Sunday 21/03/99',106,11267,'
>All publications have been processed and created.
>One burnt to CD.
As of 5.30 last night, 4 burnt to CD and 2 still running
>Theo is hopeful of finishing all today.
The last 2 should have finished c. 6.00pm
>We have used the following algorithm for resizing graphics:
>if (width > 1000) the width =width/2; height=height/2
>We have dealt with sections not in list and not follwoed by an H1.
>Jump links are working.
See end.
>Non graphics logos are stripped.
>The HTML produced does not contain Microsoft headers or leading nbsps.
>Output files are now named .htm
>The only outstanding issue is that there are non matched
>character style tags which occur outside P tags.
>yours
>TimP
Tim
I have discovered a problem with the jump links:
They only work when the jump destination is to a normal style heading or to the heading within a table. If the jump destination is an H1 heading that becomes the title of the HTML file the link is not maintained. This is true whether or not the H1 is the first record after a section heading. Links also do not work if they are to a logo, but I would not expect this as we have been specifically instructed to drop the logos.
From the sample data I have checked I would say that we are failing to maintain at least 50% of the links. Theo seems to think that this worked OK at some stage.
We are going ahead with supplying the converted files as PA has seen samples with this problem, but we need to correct it in anticipation of resupplying the data asap.
Can you please investigate this as a matter of some urgency.
I will be in the office at Catalyst today
Thanks
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11269,'Tue Mar 23 16:44:31 1999','New version of script',3,0,'
Theo, Liz,
A new version of the script is on the site,
please run against a test bed.
I am going to keep testing here.
yours
tim
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11270,'Tue Mar 23 17:34:57 1999','Re: New version of script',3,11269,'
>Theo, Liz,
>A new version of the script is on the site,
>please run against a test bed.
>I am going to keep testing here.
And another one,
I am more confident that this one is right.
yours
timP
(17.35pm I will stop testing now)
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11271,'Thu Mar 25 11:23:03 1999','HTML Links Test',106,0,'
Tim
I was not working yesterday afternoon, but Theo has sent me some examples from LATAM run through the latest version of your script. He thought that there were no links coming out, but I have checked 3 issues and the output appears to be the same as it was on Monday 9ie links to H1\'s do not work), except that a link to the Editorial Heading (to the logo in the infobase), within the same issue, now works, whereas before links to logos did not work.
Can you keep looking to solve the problems asap?
Thanks Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11272,'Thu Mar 25 17:12:57 1999','Re: HTML Links Test',3,11271,'
I think that the latest version has cured the problem.
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
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11273,'Fri Mar 26 11:19:07 1999','Re: Re: HTML Links Test',106,11272,'
Tim
>I think that the latest version has cured the problem.
I have looked at about half of the files that you forwarded to me and they appear to be correct as far as I can see. Well done!
If you can make sure that the latest version is on the site for Theo to download on Monday we will carry out further testing on other publications. So far so good.
Enjoy your weekend
Regards
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11274,'Fri Mar 26 11:26:54 1999','Re: Re: Re: HTML Links Test',3,11273,'
>Tim
>>I think that the latest version has cured the problem.
>I have looked at about half of the files that you forwarded to me and they appear to be correct as far as I can see. Well done!
>If you can make sure that the latest version is on the site for Theo to download on Monday we will carry out further testing on other publications. So far so good.
Done.
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11275,'Mon Mar 29 11:54:23 1999','AGM - Special Heading Mods',106,0,'
Tim
I noticed last week while I was carrying out QA on the HTML output, that the last-minute mod. to pull out the bold text after a section heading, when there was no H1 (for 6 specific sections only) had not worked.
I understand from Theo that this was because the data was inconsistent so mod. was not implemented.
I have since been able to check all the relevant sections.
There are a few examples where there is no bold text after the heading and several where the bold heading has been centred. In addition to this, for the first few issues the headings were coded as H1s.
I have asked Petroleum Argus for guidance on what we should do for these instances.
I also thought Theo said that there were some sections that began with tables. I could not find this - this only applies to Netbacks -which was on my list of Sections from our meeting on 010399, but was dropped from my specific instructions.
I will let you know further details when I receive customer feedback.
Regarding the links problem - Theo is planning to carry out further testing this afternoon. I willlet you know how it goes.
Regards
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11276,'Tue Mar 30 16:06:40 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: HTML Links Test',106,11274,'
>>Tim
Theo has run the latest version of the script against LA and PA data.
The LA output looked OK, but it doesn\'t contain many links.
The PA output I have checked now seems to create all the links correctly apart from those to a previous year (ie another infobase).
When I looked back at the previous version I found that these particular links in PA did not work before, but they did seem to be working in GC. Is this something to do with the file sizes or the number of files?
I have asked Theo to rerun GC to see if it still works (issue 090498 had an example)
I will let you know the result.
>yours
>Liz G
','f','',69,0,0);
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11277,'Thu Apr 1 12:17:43 1999','HTML conversion',106,0,'
Tim
I have just emailed you the following:
\'We have had a response from Petroleum Argus re the HTML files. They have discovered that not all the links work, but the example cited is the known scenario. After the checking I have done from your latest script I am fairly confident that it is now acceptable.
However, there are 2 issues that require further work from your point of view:
1. The special headings in AGM did not work last time, eg Crude Markets, Arbitrage Trade etc. There are a few examples of dodgy data but in the main it looks OK. We will edit the dodgy data, but can you sort out the script, please?
2. The file names are used to order the index on the Sagewave site. As we have numbered the files page1, page2 etc they are not appearing in order in the index. Could we please amend the names to 01, 02, etc so they are all the same length and 2 sorts before 10 etc.
Can you make these changes asap and let Theo know it would be nice if we could set things running over Easter.\'
Thanks
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11278,'Thu Apr 1 13:20:37 1999','Petroleum Argus - HTML Conversion',106,0,'Posted on behalf of LizG by TimP
Tim
We have had a response from Petroleum Argus re the HTML files. They have
discovered that not all the links work, but the example cited is the known
scenario. After the checking I have done from your latest script I am
fairly confident that it is now acceptable.
However, there are 2 issues that require further work from your point of
view:
1. The special headings in AGM did not work last time, eg Crude Markets,
Arbitrage Trade etc. There are a few examples of dodgy data but in the main
it looks OK. We will edit the dodgy data, but can you sort out the script,
please?
2. The file names are used to order the index on the Sagewave site. As we
have numbered the files page1, page2 etc they are not appearing in order in
the index. Could we please amend the names to 01, 02, etc so they are all
the same length and 2 sorts before 10 etc.
Can you make these changes asap and let Theo know it would be nice if we
could set things running over Easter.
Thanks
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11279,'Thu Apr 1 16:24:09 1999','Re: Petroleum Argus - HTML Conversion',3,11278,'
Theo/Liz,
I have renumbered the pages and links and put a new copy of
process.pl and restructure.pl on the site.
I am not sure that the special sections are working.
It seems to produce a lot less pages now, so perhaps
Theo should keep a set produced with the old versions,
creat a new set and compare.
I still don\'t think that we are getting the right result, but
you do not need to remove the blank lines after sections,
as the script copes with them.
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11280,'Thu Apr 1 16:31:23 1999','Log of gm 1997',3,0,'
Liz,
I have put the log of the GM run on the site.
I have spent 2 hours on this, and must stop now,
but think that it is working.
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11281,'Thu Apr 1 18:27:48 1999','latest process.pl',107,0,'
Hi Tim,
I\'ve tried the latest script and have got a couple of errors when I run it...
"...syntax error at process.pl line 339 - near "if"
syntax error at process.pl line 363 - near "elseif"..."
Don\'t know how to get around this but it doesn\'t really have any significant impact on matters because I\'ll just do it on Tuesday morning...
Have a good Easter,
Theo
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11282,'Fri Apr 2 0:10:32 1999','Re: latest process.pl',3,11281,'
Sorry Theo,
>I\'ve tried the latest script and have got a couple of errors when I run it...
>"...syntax error at process.pl line 339 - near "if"
> syntax error at process.pl line 363 - near "elseif"..."
The latest one doesn\'t.
Sorry again.
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11283,'Sat Apr 3 13:04:37 1999','Titles in GM',3,0,'
Hi Liz,
I have got the process to recognise the \'special titles\' in gm,
which are to be deleted from body of file and set to title.
(I couldn\'t find what to do with them in the spec).
I have also started to ignore the following:
WPA PETROLEUM ARGUS - WEEKLY PETROLEUM ARGUS
AGM PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GLOBAL MARKETS
FSU PETROLEUM ARGUS - FSU ENERGY
AGC PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GAS CONNECTIONS
LPG PETROLEUM ARGUS - LPG WORLD
LATAM PETROLEUM ARGUS - LATAM ENERGY
As per an earlier instruction which I had overlooked.
Do you think we should consolidate the spec and compare it to the script
soon?
yours
timP
PS I have uploaded to site and booked an hour.
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11284,'Sat Apr 3 13:07:43 1999','Re: Titles in GM',3,11283,'
I have also uploaded the latest log.
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11285,'Tue Apr 6 10:36:15 1999','Re: Titles in GM',106,11283,'
>Hi Liz,
>I have got the process to recognise the \'special titles\' in gm,
>which are to be deleted from body of file and set to title.
>(I couldn\'t find what to do with them in the spec).
You are right they aren\'t in the Spec. I didn\'t have time to
include them before my holiday.
>I have also started to ignore the following:
> WPA PETROLEUM ARGUS - WEEKLY PETROLEUM ARGUS
> AGM PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GLOBAL MARKETS
> FSU PETROLEUM ARGUS - FSU ENERGY
> AGC PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GAS CONNECTIONS
> LPG PETROLEUM ARGUS - LPG WORLD
> LATAM PETROLEUM ARGUS - LATAM ENERGY
>As per an earlier instruction which I had overlooked.
Thanks for this - I think Theo deleted some manually.
The rest were passed to the customer. He hasn\'t commented yet.
>Do you think we should consolidate the spec and compare it to the script
>soon?
I will do consolidation when the customer accepts what we are now doing.
As all the work should have been done by now I think it will be best to wait.
In the meantime I will make a check to ensure that we have not forgotten anything else.
yours
LizG
>
>PS I have uploaded to site and booked an hour.
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11286,'Wed Apr 7 10:28:52 1999','Re: Titles in GM',106,11283,'
>Hi Liz,
>I have got the process to recognise the \'special titles\' in gm,
>which are to be deleted from body of file and set to title.
>(I couldn\'t find what to do with them in the spec).
>I have also started to ignore the following:
> WPA PETROLEUM ARGUS - WEEKLY PETROLEUM ARGUS
> AGM PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GLOBAL MARKETS
> FSU PETROLEUM ARGUS - FSU ENERGY
> AGC PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GAS CONNECTIONS
> LPG PETROLEUM ARGUS - LPG WORLD
> LATAM PETROLEUM ARGUS - LATAM ENERGY
>As per an earlier instruction which I had overlooked.
>Do you think we should consolidate the spec and compare it to the script
>soon?
>yours
>timP
>
>PS I have uploaded to site and booked an hour.
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11287,'Wed Apr 7 10:40:29 1999','Re: Re: Titles in GM',106,11286,'
Tim,
hope you had a good Easter, although you appear to have been working for part of it!
>>I have got the process to recognise the \'special titles\' in gm,
>>which are to be deleted from body of file and set to title.
>>(I couldn\'t find what to do with them in the spec).
Late yesterday afternoon I managed to look at some output run through the latest script. You are indeed recognizing the \'special titles\'. The headings \'CRUDE MARKETS\', \'ARBITRAGE TRADE\' ETC should be dropped and the \'special titles\' (the next bold text found in the data) output as the html titles. You are outputting the headings as the titles and dropping the \'special titles\' altogether. Can you please investigate.
>>I have also started to ignore the following:
>> WPA PETROLEUM ARGUS - WEEKLY PETROLEUM ARGUS
>> AGM PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GLOBAL MARKETS
>> FSU PETROLEUM ARGUS - FSU ENERGY
>> AGC PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GAS CONNECTIONS
>> LPG PETROLEUM ARGUS - LPG WORLD
>> LATAM PETROLEUM ARGUS - LATAM ENERGY
>>As per an earlier instruction which I had overlooked.
I also checked LA which was OK except that the above section is still there. I have checked the fff data and the above text seems to be correct assuming there is a single space either side of the hyphen.
Sorry about the previous message posted just before this one. I pressed enter by mistake and it sent the message before I had added my text!
>>yours
>>LizG
>>
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11288,'Thu Apr 8 13:39:35 1999','Additional Section Headings for Title output',106,0,'
Tim
As promised, here is the list of Headings to be added to the Appendix A List in the Requirements spec.
WPA - No additions
AGM -
CRUDE SPOT PRICES
OFFICIAL CRUDE PRICE FORMULAS
OFFICIAL CRUDE PRICES
PRODUCT SPOT PRICES
PRODUCT SPOT PRICES AND FREIGHT RATES
FSU -
RUSSIAN NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION
RUSSIAN OIL PRODUCTION
RUSSIAN REFINERY OUTPUT
RUSSIAN OIL EXPORTS
LOOKING AHEAD
AGC -
PRICES
PRODUCTION STATISTICS
LPG - none
LATAM -
ENERGY OUTPUT
The above should cover all regular sections that are tabular.
There are some other textual sections which I haven\'t included on the grounds that they should work.
In FSU Theo needs to amend the text for 290598 \'RUSSIAN REFINERY OUTPUT\' whcih has a \'1\' in the middle of refinery.
Thanks
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11289,'Thu Apr 8 13:54:25 1999','Re: Additional Section Headings for Title output',3,11288,'
Liz,
The titles to ignore/split on h1 ar now as follows:
# Known titles for H1 splitting
%main::sections_to_split_on = (
# WPA
\'pa\'=>{
"WPA IN BRIEF" => 1,
"COMPANY NEWS" => 1,
"WPA PETROLEUM ARGUS - WEEKLY PETROLEUM ARGUS" => 0,
"PEOPLE MOVES" => 1},
# AGM
\'gm\'=>{
"AGM IN BRIEF" => 1,
"IN BRIEF" => 1,
"NETBACKS" => 1,
"CRUDE SPOT PRICES" => 1,
"OFFICIAL CRUDE PRICES" => 1,
"OFFICIAL CRUDE PRICE FORMULAS" => 1,
"PRODUCT SPOT PRICES" => 1,
"PRODUCT SPOT PRICES AND FREIGHT RATES" => 1,
"PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GLOBAL MARKETS" => 0,
"LOOK AHEAD" => 0}, #Ignore
# FSU
\'fs\'=>{
"FSU PETROLEUM ARGUS - FSU ENERGY" => 0,
"IN BRIEF" => 1,
"RUSSIAN NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION" => 1,
"RUSSIAN OIL PRODUCTION" => 1,
"RUSSIAN REFINERY OUTPUT" => 1,
"RUSSIAN OIL EXPORTS" => 1,
"LOOKING AHEAD" => 1},
# AGC
\'gc\'=>{
"IN BRIEF" => 1,
"PRICES" => 1,
"PRODUCTION STATISTICS" => 1,
"AGC PETROLEUM ARGUS - ARGUS GAS CONNECTIONS" => 0,
"PEOPLE NEWS" => 1},
# LPG
\'lp\'=>{
"NEWS" => 1,
"SHIPPING" => 1,
"LPG PETROLEUM ARGUS - LPG WORLD" => 0,
"PRICES MONTHLY" => 1},
# LATAM
\'la\'=>{
"LATAM PETROLEUM ARGUS - LATAM ENERGY" => 0,
"ENERGY OUTPUT" => 1,
"IN BRIEF" => 1},
# FUNDAMENTALS
# There are no banners in the report part
# of Fundamentals,
# but looking at the last issue I would suggest using
# the centred bold headings as follows:
\'f\'=>{
"SUPPLY AND DEMAND OVERVIEW" => 1,
"OIL ON THE WATER" => 1,
"SUPPLY BALANCE" => 1,
"ARGUS PRICES" => 1,
"DEFINITIONS" => 1,
"PRODUCTION" => 1,
"HIGHLIGHTS" => 1,
"SOURCES" => 0} # ignore
);
yours
TimP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11290,'Thu Apr 8 16:07:34 1999','New version on site',3,0,'
Liz/Theo,
I have changed the script so that it does use the titles correctly,
but it seems to be creating rather a lot of new files (180 new ones)
which implies that there is a problem, and that we are getting blank files with
destinations in them, so this will probably need to be corrected.
I have sent liz the resulting html and log, hope that by
inspection the problem will become clearer.
We seem to take one step forward and another back, but as this has taken 4.5 hours
I thought I should let you see the result so far.
Let me know if you want me to carry on tomorrow.
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11291,'Thu Apr 8 21:37:26 1999','Re: New version on site',106,11290,'
>Tim/Theo,
>I have changed the script so that it does use the titles correctly,
>but it seems to be creating rather a lot of new files (180 new ones)
>which implies that there is a problem, and that we are getting blank files with
>destinations in them, so this will probably need to be corrected.
I have checked the output. There do not seem to be any erroneous blank files. As far as I can see you are creating the correct number of files now with the correct titles except for the \'special titles\', Crude Makrets etc. These are now untitled although your log identifies the correct text and says it is to be used for the title.
Your comment on the destinations worries me. I did not unzip all the files to check that the destinations were correct, but I assume that if there are no blank files there should not be a problem.
On Tuesday I discovered a failed link within an issue. This link now works. It was to one of the Table Sections that were being absorbed into the futures Market Section. Now that this section is identified for Section Heading output the Link works. I did discover another failed link today for gm221297/page03.htm. There is a link to p10 that has been dropped. This is to the Arbitrage Trade Heading. Could this be a clue? If you can solve this please do so, but do not worry too much if you can\'t solve it - I would rather not mess up the links which appear to be 99.9% correct for the sake of a few rare instances in AGM.
>I have sent liz the resulting html and log, hope that by
>inspection the problem will become clearer.
>We seem to take one step forward and another back, but as this has taken 4.5 hours
>I thought I should let you see the result so far.
>Let me know if you want me to carry on tomorrow.
Please carry on tomorrow if possible. Ideally it would be nice if Theo could start some jobs tomorrow to run over the weekend.
>yours
>Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11292,'Thu Apr 8 21:42:14 1999','Re: New version on site',106,11290,'
Tim/Theo,
>I have changed the script so that it does use the titles correctly,
>but it seems to be creating rather a lot of new files (180 new ones)
>which implies that there is a problem, and that we are getting blank files with
>destinations in them, so this will probably need to be corrected.
I have revisited the zip files that you sent and sorted them by size. Even the smallest one contains valid text so I am certain there are no blank files being output.
>yours
>Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11293,'Fri Apr 9 16:02:52 1999','Re: Re: New version on site',3,11291,'
Liz/Theo,
>I have checked the output. There do not seem to be any
>erroneous blank files. As far as I can see you are creating the correct
>number of files now with the correct titles except for
>the \'special titles\', Crude Makrets etc.
>These are now untitled although your log
>identifies the correct text and says it is to be used for
>the title.
Corrected, I had not put a record infront of the title.
>Your comment on the destinations worries me.
>I did not unzip all the files to check that the destinations were correct,
>but I assume that if there are no blank files there
>should not be a problem.
This is true, there isn\'t a problem.
>On Tuesday I discovered a failed link within an issue.
>This link now works. It was to one of the Table Sections
>that were being absorbed into the futures Market Section.
>Now that this section is identified for Section Heading
>output the Link works.
Still seems ok.
>I did discover another failed link today for gm221297/page03.htm.
>There is a link to p10 that has been dropped.
>This is to the Arbitrage Trade Heading.
>Could this be a clue?
>If you can solve this please do so,
>but do not worry too much if you can\'t solve it - I would rather not mess up the links which appear to be 99.9% correct for the sake of a few rare instances in AGM.
Found it and it is OK now.
So I think all is well and new process.pl is on site.
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11294,'Wed Apr 14 16:04:19 1999','AGM Jump Links',106,0,'
Tim
Theo ran the latest version of the script for AGM and FSU.
I have now checked some of the output and I find that there are more unresolved links than there were before.
These appear to be links to Section Heads that get dropped. In general these were working before.
e.g.in 221297 page05.htm there is a link to page3 that no longer works, but did before.
Can you please investigate asap
Thanks
Liz
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11295,'Thu Apr 15 1:21:07 1999','Re: AGM Jump Links',3,11294,'
I have recovered the missing destinations.
The number of desinations linked to but undefined in
my copy of agm97 has gone:
18, 37, 37, 114, and now is at 20.
I am hoping that those 20 are data errors.
I am still running the restructure, but believe all is now running smoothly.
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11296,'Wed Sep 15 17:48:04 1999','Weekend Thoughts',106,0,'Posted on behalf of Liz Gale by TimP
Tim
I have attempted to create a couple of the query templates over the weekend
with mixed success.
Although I can get the search to restrict itself to the correct level, it
does not confine the word wheel to the current level. I think this may be a
problem with the Sections Searching. When the user selects a search by
section they should start off by seeing only the possible sections, which
is of course very restricted, instead they appear to get the full word
wheel. I think it may be necessary to set up the section name as a field -
what do you think?
This may also apply to one or two other items, but I am not sure yet.
My other thought is that the selection of data we are using is too
restricted. It is only 3 or 4 issues, which I think the customer may feel
is insufficient even for his test disk. Is it possible to add any other
files to the workbench selection at this stage. If so how? Can you tell me,
or someone else at Catalyst, how to do it, or do you have to come in and do
it yourself?
Perhaps you could phone me at Catalyst on Monday morning to discuss the
above,
Thanks
Liz Gale
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11297,'Wed Sep 15 17:48:04 1999','Re: Weekend Thoughts',3,11296,'
>I have attempted to create a couple of the query templates over the weekend
>with mixed success.
>
>Although I can get the search to restrict itself to the correct level, it
>does not confine the word wheel to the current level. I think this may be a
>problem with the Sections Searching. When the user selects a search by
>section they should start off by seeing only the possible sections, which
>is of course very restricted, instead they appear to get the full word
>wheel. I think it may be necessary to set up the section name as a field -
>what do you think?
>This may also apply to one or two other items, but I am not sure yet.
This should not be a problem, we can alter the \'after import\' script.
>My other thought is that the selection of data we are using is too
>restricted. It is only 3 or 4 issues, which I think the customer may feel
>is insufficient even for his test disk. Is it possible to add any other
>files to the workbench selection at this stage. If so how? Can you tell me,
>or someone else at Catalyst, how to do it, or do you have to come in and do
>it yourself?
I brought all the data I had with me, and we used it all, however,
I am remaking it all, to get all the graphics lines, so will have a
larger set by Monday AM, I could bring it in, but this will mean I am not working
on the Latex images.
>Perhaps you could phone me at Catalyst on Monday morning to discuss the
>above,
Will do.
Tim
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11298,'Sat Feb 13 15:35:28 1999','Invoice for December and Petroleum Argus',3,0,'
Richard/Liz,
My invoice for December and Petoleum argus todate is at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/invoice.pl?show-/people/timp/invoices/86.html
Thank you for your business.
yours
Tim P
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11299,'Wed Mar 31 17:34:23 1999','Invoice for March',3,0,'
Richard/Liz,
My invoice for March is at http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/invoice.pl?show-/people/timp/invoices/87.html
Thankyou for your business.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11300,'Tue May 11 18:36:01 1999','Invoice for April',3,0,'
Dear Richard,
My invoice for April (11 hours) is now on the site at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/invoice.pl?show-/people/timp/invoices/90.html
See you tomorrow
Tim
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11301,'Tue Jun 1 11:49:46 1999','Invoice for May',3,0,'
Richard,
my invoice for may is at :
http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/invoice.pl?show-/people/timp/invoices/92.html
yours
timP
','f','',69,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
70,'solomon','solomon Project',870,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/solomon/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/solomon/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11302,'Wed Sep 15 23:40:37 1999','File naming conventions FAO: RA',3,0,'
Richard,
The files on the CD have a completley different naming convention.
Can we find out exactly what the file names mean.
It would be nice to get a proper 8.3 convention in place as
the file transfer mechanism is going to be CD, but I imagine that
we are not going to recieve another version.
So I will rename file so that they obey following convention:
input/front/name.tag # Belongs in front matter, alpha numeric ordering
input/\d\d\d/chap\d\d.tag # volume:$1; chapter numer: $2;
input/back/name.tag # Belongs in back matter, alpha numeric ordering
Every volume has two files, named presumably off a Mac, called:
<tt>indexofa.cts</tt> (the volume index)
<tt>prelimsv.ol\d</tt> (the volume index)
Does the index come at the front or back of a volume?
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11303,'Wed Sep 15 23:40:37 1999','Site visit on Monday 07/09/98',3,0,'
Richard,
I would very much like to continue to work at home.
I have worked some 30 hours from Friday, and have gotten
pretty clock shifted.
I have all the materials and am making progress,
(though the 30 hours was, I am afraid, desk clearing; I should now have a free run until Friday).
I know that I am stretching your faith, as this is the third deadline that I have missed,
but it still seems most productive for me to finish this here.
At the moment there is little input that you could make,
I don\'t think that I have any <em>conceptual blockages</em>,
and can only manage 6.5 hours a day at Catalyst, whereas I can manage 9 or more here.
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11304,'Wed Sep 15 23:40:37 1999','Project Communications FAO RA',3,0,'
Richard,
Would you mind using the project message board
for emials on the project?
In reviewing the problems that PanEris has had with projects,
mostly not mine, the same story keeps coming up:
messages were lost in email.
To use the message board:
1. go to http://www.paneris.co.uk/catalyst (passord required)
2. go to project solomon
3. press the <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/multiboard.pl?gomain\'>Messages</a> button.
4. Fill in your Name, email
leave copy blank unless you want to send a copy to yourself or others
5. Check TimP (only)
6. Fill in subject and message.
7. Press <tt>Commit yourself</tt>
yours
tim
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11305,'Wed Sep 15 23:40:37 1999','Moving files',3,0,'
I have had a terrible job moving the files from the CD.
(4 hours).
It is now 4.20am, so I will not be able to come in first thing.
Email me, or I will phone when I surface.
yours
Tim
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11306,'Wed Sep 15 23:40:37 1999','Re: File naming conventions FAO: RA',3,11302,'
>Richard,
>The files on the CD have a completley different naming convention.
>Can we find out exactly what the file names mean.
I understand the schema, but there are exceptions,
can we insist on a convention and a readme.txt in future.
yours
tim
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11307,'Mon Sep 14 6:24:11 1998','Progress FAO RA',3,0,'
Richard,
I have made considerable progress.
From the despair of Friday, via 35.5 hours work, to
the triumph of today.
We have a near perfect infobase, with tables et al.
There is more to do, particularly I need to
1. handle/check high ascii codes,
2. Implement tabstop setting
4. Check against paper copy
However, it does everything else, or so I think.
As you will tell from the timestamp, I would rather you
waited until I called you, but the <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/catalyst/solomon/process.pl\'>program</a> is on
the site, as is the data, though I will email attachments
as well.
I hope that you are as pleased/suprised, as I am, and
that we can recover the timscales from the customers point of view.
If it helps I suspect some of the data.
I have learnt more about programming in the last week
than in the last 5 years!! (thanks William)
yours
TimP
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11308,'Mon Sep 14 6:33:51 1998','Build Log',3,0,'
The errors in the <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/catalyst/solomon/log.html\'>build log</a>
are either genuine unknowns or from tabstops.
yours
timP
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11309,'Mon Sep 21 2:04:03 1998','File naming convention FAO RA',3,0,'
Richard,
The files on the original cd were named as follows:
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP101PP.290
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP70PP2.107
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP71PP2.111
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP72PP2.121
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP73PP2.143
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP74PP2.217
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP75PP2.265
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP76PP2.291
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP77PP2.361
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP78PP2.369
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP79PP2.415
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP80PP2.451
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP81PP2.493
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP82PP2.507
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP83PP2.563
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP84PP2.583
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP85PP2.617
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP86PP2.649
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP87PP2.665
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP88PP2.713
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP89PP2.727
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP90PP2.729
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP91PP2.731
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP92PP2.733
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP93PP2.755
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP94PP2.759
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP95PP2.769
D:\SOL_VOL4\CAP96PP2.787
D:\SOL_VOL4\INDEXOFA.CTS
D:\SOL_VOL4\PRELIMSV.OL4
They are now listed as follows:
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap010.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap011.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap012.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap013.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap014.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap015.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap016.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap017.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap018.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap019.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap001.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap002.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap003.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap004.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap005.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap006.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap007.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap008.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\chap009.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\IoAV001.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\lawsv1.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\001\preV1.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\002\chap020.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\002\chap021.qxp
C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\002\chap022.qxp
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C:\html\paneris\partners\catalyst\solomon\input\front\constitution.qxp
Hopefully future files will use a very similar naming convention.
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11310,'Mon Sep 21 2:06:51 1998','Index of Acts FAO RA',3,0,'
Richard,
The paper copy answers my question about the prelims, they
are at the front of each volume.
However the Index of Acts does not seem to be in the paper
copy.
Are all the indices collated and held somewhere else?
What are we going to do with them in an infobase,
as we have a table of contents anyway.
yours
timP
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11311,'Mon Sep 21 2:09:01 1998','All Caps FAO RA',3,0,'
Richard,
on comparing the paper with the files we find that
use has been mad of the \'all caps\' paragraph style.
This is a problem as there is no equivalent in FFF.
I think I can find an elegant solution ....
yours
TimP
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11312,'Mon Sep 21 5:13:03 1998','Sorry to have missed you Friday FAO RA',3,0,'
Richard,
Sorry to have missed you on Friday, you were at lunch when I phoned,
and I had to go out.
I have recieved the paper copy and all is clear.
I have got the fonts coming through but am having a small difficulty
with the difference between undefined attributes
and attributes which have been on but are now switched off.
(I am getting BD in the def file).
I am hoping not to have to duplicate all attributes, but may have to.
I intend to address the Mac high ascii codes by checking against the paper,
unless you know where they are defined.
I need to know what to do with the indices of acts.
yours
TimP
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11313,'Wed Oct 7 11:57:20 1998','Sol details',107,0,'Posted on behalf of RichardA by TimP
Tim,
I didn\'t manage to get this out Wednesday evening as I had to prepare for
being out yesterday. Some details to keep you going:
* All level records to be fielded, the field name being the same as
the level name.
* All tables to be proportional measures (80% for main text, 20% for
side bar)
* \'Title\'s form the top level, then Chapter headings, then Parts. Be
warned - there are many oddities to this data: level the first chapter title
before the Arrangement of Sections (not the repeat in the text); some
chapters have identical numbers but are valid different chapters (the first
number 37 being main legislation, the second 37 being Subsidiary
legislation).
* No \'Cap. nn\' text shown in the sidebars are present in the files.
These are being rekeyed. Instead of appearing in the side bar, they will be
keyed in the main text immediately prior to the Act to which they relate.
Coding will be:
<$k-100c"White">Cap. 25<$k$c$>
* Ignore page straps, etc. but include prelims.
* Order of contents:
Vol 1 (including Table of Acts, excluding Index)
Vol 2
...
Vol 9
Index
* There will be approx 19 sets of graphic files to be included - am
waiting for the files to see how they code these but it should be along
thelines of the Cap xrefs shown above, using the file name of the graphic in
place of the Cap description.
* See enclosed infobase for styling - this will change next week but
the basic structure and styles are correct.
<<sol.nfo>>
Have a good party/weekend.
Regards,
Richard
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11314,'Wed Oct 7 12:14:02 1998','Re: Sol details FAO RA',3,11313,'
Richard
>* All level records to be fielded, the field name being the same as
>the level name.
Awaiting example, to determine relationship between fields and tables.
>* All tables to be proportional measures (80% for main text, 20% for
>side bar)
Not a problem, awaiting example.
>* \'Title\'s form the top level, then Chapter headings, then Parts. Be
>warned - there are many oddities to this data: level the first chapter title
>before the Arrangement of Sections (not the repeat in the text); some
>chapters have identical numbers but are valid different chapters (the first
>number 37 being main legislation, the second 37 being Subsidiary
>legislation).
I haven\'t encountered this yet.
>* No \'Cap. nn\' text shown in the sidebars are present in the files.
>These are being rekeyed. Instead of appearing in the side bar, they will be
>keyed in the main text immediately prior to the Act to which they relate.
>Coding will be:
><$k-100c"White">Cap. 25<$k$c$>
Should be fine.
>* Ignore page straps, etc. but include prelims.
What are page straps?
>* Order of contents:
>Vol 1 (including Table of Acts, excluding Index)
>Vol 2
>...
>Vol 9
>Index
Seems fine, you said all indices were identical, is this still the case?
>* There will be approx 19 sets of graphic files to be included - am
>waiting for the files to see how they code these but it should be along
>thelines of the Cap xrefs shown above, using the file name of the graphic in
>place of the Cap description.
It looks very much as though the <?b> tags are graphic boxes.
These will need to be much better coded, or there will have to be a list of
graphics which exactly corresponds to the order in which the box tags occur.
Infact I think that the latter would work quite well:
any file which contains graphics could have an accompanying
file called graphics.lis which contained a list of
image files, each on a separate line, in the order that they occur within the
quark file.
What naming convention will the image files conform to?
May I suggest 03039001.ext for vol 3 chap 39 pic 1.
This will be easily preserved under the CD 8.3 naming convention.
In the meantime I will insert a dummy image wherever I encounter a <?b>
command.
>* See enclosed infobase for styling - this will change next week but
>the basic structure and styles are correct.
> <<sol.nfo>>
Infobase doesn\'t illustrate tabling as I understand it is required,
awaiting next version.
I have a few tags that I need to work more on, and I need to play with my cd cutter,
(or at least read the manual:), but otherwise believe I am on top of project.
On receipt of the example infobase I expect to
process the whole volume, cut a CD and send to you in the post, or
deliver by hand, whichever is most convenient for you.
yours
TimP
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11315,'Wed Nov 18 2:23:08 1998','Vol 1 data',3,0,'Posted on behalf of RA by TimP
Tim,
Thanks for your phone call(s).
E&S
---
I enclose the zip file for vol 1 as requested.
Regards,
Richard
vol-r1.zip is on mcmeric
','f','',70,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
71,'topley1998','topley1998 Project',871,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/topley1998/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/topley1998/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11316,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:57 1998','Draft agenda for topley meeting 02.09.98',107,0,'Posted on behalf of Richard Akroyd by TimP
Topley and Wilson/9e Update
Agenda for Meeting
at Catalyst Electronic Publishing on Wednesday 2 September 1998
Morning session starts at 10a.m.
Attending: Helen Whitehorn, Jon Hebert, Nick Palmer, Tony Holtham, Nigel
Phelps, Tim Pizey, Richard Akroyd.
1) Review of outstanding issues relating to the first CD:
a) Technical problems, including data validation, coding, graphics,
entity lists, tables, and equations
b) Confirmation of DTD specification and processing, including A+
headings (PSEC0 elements), front matter, contributor lists, and
abbreviations
c) Source data not included in the SGML documents
d) Specification of data delivery (file contents, sizes, etc.)
2) Specification of changes for update CD:
a) Changes to the DTD
b) Review of the work necessary to ensure Folio reconciliation between
updates
c) Data issues: resuppply of full data for update; volume of changes
3) Introduction to Change Management procedures
Lunch at 1p.m. (Jan Ross joining for lunch and afternoon session)
Afternoon session starts at 1.30p.m.
1) Index creation and production
a) Review of issues relating to the first CD, including procedural,
validation, and conversion problems
b) Changes for the update CD, including data markup, format, and file
specifications
2) Organism hierarchies
a) Review of issues relating to the first CD (procedural, validation,
and conversion issues)
b) Changes for the update CD
(Meeting expected to finish by 3.00p.m.)
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11317,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:57 1998','Changes to DTD',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Tony Holtham by TimP
Tim- FYI:
PhotoGraphics want to have a single list of contributors which can be
referenced from several places, i.e. at encyclopaedia level and from each
volume. (We need to ensure that the data is identical in each place!)
Speak to you tomorrow,
Regards,
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Holtham
Sent: 26 August 1998 11:27
To: Projects
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Topley DTD Changes
Richard,
This is a copy of my message to Nick Palmer at Photographics on the issue of
duplication of "person" data at both volume and encyclopedia levels.
I have not talked to Tim as yet-he has not returned my message on his mobile
so this is my solution.
Tony.
P.S. I have had no feedback from photographics so don\'t know if it is
acceptable at their end.
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------From:
Self <tony> To: Nick Palmer
<npalmer@photographics.co.uk <mailto:npalmer@photographics.co.uk> > Subject:
Re: Topley DTD Changes
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:11:32
Nick,
My suggestion is that you change the definition of the contributor element
in the topley DTD to be empty, and to add the "person" attribute:
<!ELEMENT contributor - O EMPTY>
<!ATTLIST contributor person CDATA #REQUIRED -- this is an ID of a person
in the people dtd-
idrefs IDREFS #REQUIRED-the chapters they contribute to -->
And to have a separate list of contributors coded to the people DTD (see
below):
This should not be a problem for catalyst as they can parse the people SGML
file before converting to Folio Views.
See you on Wednesday,
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------
Tony Holtham Banwell House
SGML Systems Engineering Ltd Wolvershill Road
Tel: +44 (0) 1934 822911 Banwell
Fax: +44 (0) 1924 822994 North Somerset
Web: http://www.sgml.dircon.co.uk/sgml <http://www.sgml.dircon.co.uk/sgml>
BS29 6DG
UK
--------------------------------------------------------
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11318,'Thu Oct 22 13:07:21 1998','Status of SgmlC',3,0,'
Tony Holtham assures me that the current version of SGMLC,
still works correctly and that there has not been a replacement.
If Catalyst no longer have a working copy of SGMLC then the
version on the web will still work.
TimP
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11319,'Thu Oct 22 14:46:32 1998','Topley & Wilson -Arnold Publishers',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Jan Ross by TimP
Dear Tim/Richard/Jon
As agreed at our meeting at Catalyst on 2/9/98 I am attaching a variety of
files for you to have a look at. They are a section of Topley (1997)
converted from my original indexing program(Macrex) to Cindex (my new
indexing program). The reference locators are in the form of volume chapter
code |page.paragraph number. The `bits\' you would be interested in are the
volume-chapter number code and the paragraph number.
I am attaching:-
a tab delimited file; .rtf file; .rtf (with tabs for indents) file;
QuarkXPress; .aap (American Association of Publishers); html file.
We can modify such things as spacing before reference locators, margins,
indents etc etc, so please let me know.
I hope one or other of these files will be usable. I shall look forward to
hearing from you.
Best wishes
Jan
______________________________________________
Jan Ross
Merrall-Ross International
Tel: (44) 1606 889144
Fax: (44) 1606 889839
e-mail: m.r.i@btinternet.com
______________________________________________
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11320,'Thu Oct 22 14:47:24 1998','Re: Topley & Wilson -Arnold Publishers',3,11319,'
Dear Jan,
Thankyou for the Topley information.
I shall look at it in a while, but ca only confirm receipt at the moment,
as I am snowed under.
Anyway, I have to wait for Richard to OK.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11321,'Tue Nov 10 18:17:11 1998','Topley todo',107,0,'Posted on behalf of Richard Akroyd by TimP
Tim,
I don\'t know about you but we are up to our eyeballs in work! Hope all
is going well at your end. Meanwhile there are a few things to sort out,
especially wrt Arnold:
* Handover the Quark conversion process
* Some minor fixes to the New Scientist convertor next time you
are in (I suspect that this will only take an hour to fix - Liz has the
details)
* Re-process the data for Topley (last version) prior to first
week of December - this item was at your request
* Your note re. SGMLS\'s table convertor puzzled me - at the
meeting you and Tony identified that SGMLC had been upgraded since we
purchased a copy. You stipulated that we needed the latest version from
Tony and that you would need to test it out in advance of the next
update. Please clarify the situation.
* The other action point from the meeting with everyone was that
you and Tony were discussing possible changes to the DTD beyond Tony\'s
amendment. I believe that this related to:
* the processing of contributor lists,
* the cross-references between them and the author\'s name on a
chapter heading,
* the handling of A+ headings (i.e. 2 logical chapters per
article),
* storage and handling of prelims - much of this will only appear
once in the electronic version.
Everything has to be finalized by the first week of December. Are you
available for 2-3 days w/c 23 November - 1 day of which will be at
Catalyst.
Regards,
Richard
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11322,'Tue Nov 10 18:24:51 1998','Re: Topley todo FAO RA',3,11321,'
Richard,
how nice to hear from you, I hope you had a good holiday.
At 15:27 10/11/98 -0000, you wrote:
>Tim,
>I don\'t know about you but we are up to our eyeballs in work! Hope all
>is going well at your end.
We have just had our AGM so, in principle, we are all singing from the same
songsheet. (see http://www.paneris.co.uk/philosophy/agm/) and we have just
got Linux 5.2 which we are installing on our Dell monster box which will
be our own webserver - so you can see that things are coming to the boil again.
My room is still a building site but the end is in sight.
>* Handover the Quark conversion process
I will send you a separate message.
>* Some minor fixes to the New Scientist convertor next time you
>are in (I suspect that this will only take an hour to fix - Liz has the
>details)
Seems fine, can Liz drop me a line?
>Meanwhile there are a few things to sort out,
>especially wrt Arnold:
>* Re-process the data for Topley (last version) prior to first
>week of December - this item was at your request
Yes please
>* Your note re. SGMLS\'s table convertor puzzled me - at the
>meeting you and Tony identified that SGMLC had been upgraded since we
>purchased a copy. You stipulated that we needed the latest version from
>Tony and that you would need to test it out in advance of the next
>update. Please clarify the situation.
I have spoken to Tony and he says that there have not been any new versions of SGMLC since last year so either our current version or a new download will work.
>* The other action point from the meeting with everyone was that
>you and Tony were discussing possible changes to the DTD beyond Tony\'s
>amendment. I believe that this related to:
>* the processing of contributor lists,
>* the cross-references between them and the author\'s name on a
>chapter heading,
>* the handling of A+ headings (i.e. 2 logical chapters per
>article),
>* storage and handling of prelims - much of this will only appear
>once in the electronic version.
This is the major change to the XOM, which I think would probably best be done in the Office,
as I have not had any success in getting an evaluation copy of Omnimark.
>
>Everything has to be finalized by the first week of December. Are you
>available for 2-3 days w/c 23 November - 1 day of which will be at
>Catalyst.
>
Yes please, I think that I should aim to hand over the quark stuff next Tuesday (17th),
at which point we can assess the state of Omnimark, SGMLC, the build machine etc.
Then come in and do a run of the conversion on Tuesday 24th November.
yours
timP
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11323,'Wed Nov 18 2:25:23 1998','Topley TODO',3,0,'Posted on behalf of RA by TimP
Tim,
Thanks for your phone call(s).
Topley
------
Please spend no more than one day at your earliest convenience to estimate
the amount of work involved and the impact of converting:
1. Processing full DTD as it should have been delivered for the first release, i.e.
take into account:
a) contributors: create lists and jump links to/from author names on chapter titles.
b) index conversion: correct record structure; also intra-index links
c) prelims
2. The proposed changes to the DTD and data sources
a) DTD change for contributor lists
b) provision of prelims as SGML documents
c) handling equations by placing jump links to them
from the places where they occur (usually tables).
The equation images were placed in popups and resized manually last time.
3. Creation of validation processes (as suggested by yourself).
I do need reasonably accurate estimates by noon Thursday!
Regards,
Richard
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11324,'Thu Dec 3 13:53:17 1998','Photographics data delivery',3,0,'
The initial redelivery of data was intended to
ensure that no knowledge had been lost since last year.
There were three main problems with the data:
1. chap003.sgm was corrupt
2. chap191.sgm contained sgml errors (missing ixref end tags).
3. there was not entity file (extlist.ent) listing the external figure entites
1 and 2 would be new errors, but I believe that 3 is left over from last time,
ie Photographics have never supplied this.
I would like to insist that the whole encylopedia
can be parsed straight off the CD using nsgmls (http://www.jclark.com/).
yours
TimP
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11325,'Wed Dec 9 16:57:01 1998','Receipt of 1997 data FAO Nick Palmer',107,0,'
Nick,
Thank you for the latest copy of the data.
To get the encyclopedia to parse with no errors I had to do the following:
<ol>
<li>Place a new file of external figure entities (extlist.ent) in entities directory
<li>Remove DOCTYPE line from encyclopedia
<li>Split out the SGML Declaration into a separate file (topley97.dcl)
<li>Include the extlist in the dtd (topley97.dtd)
</ol>
<h2>NSGMLS Command</h2>
<pre>
<tt>
d:\sgmls\bin\nsgmls -s -wall -c..\..\dtds\catalog\catalog -D. -D..\dtds ..\..\dtds\topley97.dcl ..\..\dtds\topley97.dtd ency.sgm
</tt>
</pre>
The text for the external entity file (extlist.ent) is given below:
As discussed on the \'phone we must make progress on
how we are going to share common files,
such as DTDs and project documents,
to make full use of the web.
yours
Tim Pizey
<!ENTITY ext0021.01 SYSTEM "e:\data\021\ext0021.01" NDATA tif>
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11326,'Sun Jan 10 21:07:37 1999','Topley and Wilson Preparation',107,0,'Posted on behalf of RichardA by TimP
Nick,
First of all, thank you for sending the data from the last release. The
intention of this was to check that both parties were able to transfer
the text according to the spec for last time (as it turns out the data
came through in pieces without some top level documents).
We have recreated the production environment over recent weeks and
attempted to run the data from your CD but ran into some problems. Tim
has listed these (see below).
"1. chap003.sgm was corrupt
2. chap191.sgm contained sgml errors (missing ixref end tags).
3. the entity file (extlist.ent) listing the external figure
entites was missing
1 and 2 would be new errors, but I believe that 3 is left over from last
time, ie Photographics have never supplied this. "
To fulfill the original intention would you mind resending the CD with
these points fixed - preferably to arrive at us by Wednesday (9th)
morning.
Tim has also suggested that we set the files up to allow the whole
encylopedia to be parsed straight off the CD using nsgmls. He is due in
next Wednesday so I will ask him to ring you then to discuss this in
more detail.
Many thanks for your help
Regards,
Richard
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11327,'Mon Jan 11 17:00:50 1999','Topley status',3,0,'
Richard,
Hope you had a nice Christmas, and thankyou for a fine meal.
If my memory serves me right, and I wasn\'t too drunk :),
the position at the end of last year was:
Omnimark working and XOM correctly parsing old DTD
SGMLC installed and producing table output
The main point still outstanding on this section of the project is the
missing file tab2fff.pl; to recreate this file is the next step,
but it is a _considerable_ amount of work, and so before
rewriting it Paul is going to search the backups at home.
I can start this work, which I think will take about 12 hours,
but would wish to establish that this was alright with you and
that efforts to find it had been exhausted.
I rang Nick Palmer at PG and he said that they are likely to
send some data in the new DTD format next week.
yours
timP
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11328,'Tue Jan 26 23:58:10 1999','Telephone conversation',3,0,'
Dear Richard,
Thank you for your \'phone call today, I am feeling
rather pressured and isolated what with Tax Returns,
\'flu and an unhappy girlfriend.
PetArg
I checked with Theo and the PetArg problem does seem
to have been caused by relative path names, but I don\'t think
he has had a chance to check yet, as he is still correcting the text.
Topley
This is likely to kick off again towards the end of Feb,
but you will give me an exact date soon.
TAB2FFF.PL can be taken as missing, and as it will take some
concentration should not be started before the end of PetArg
but may be started prior to end of Feb provided I keep you in formed.
You will have a copy of Folio Views software send to me by post,
which I will return on next visit to Catalyst.
Glad to hear you are better
yours
TimP
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11329,'Fri Jan 29 15:36:21 1999','FW: Topley DTD',107,0,'Posted on behalf of RichardA by TimP
FYI
Regards,
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Palmer
Sent: 28 January 1999 11:48
To: Richard Ackroid (E-mail)
Subject: Topley DTD
Dear Richard
Hope you are keeping OK.
I am just writing to ask if you could verify that we all have the
correct/same version of the DTD. Tony Holthem at SGML Engineering has
sent me the latest version (attached below) and I just want to make sure
that we are all in "beautiful coherence". The DTD I\'m working with was
last updated on 03/09/98.
With Regards
Nick Palmer
Photo-Graphics
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11330,'Fri Jan 29 15:38:12 1999','Re: FW: Topley DTD',3,11329,'
Richard,
Tony has sent me the same DTD, so we are all singing from the same hymn-sheet.
yours
TimP
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11331,'Wed May 12 17:52:02 1999','ORUs vs VRUs',3,0,'
Hi Tony,
Congratulations again.
I am setting up Arnolds as we had it in November.
Everything has gone smoothly, but sgmlc cannot find the .vru files,
which I believe are the sources which we have never purchased.
We have the ORUs but they are not being looked for.
Anyway, I think that I have it to a point you will be able to start from.
yours
timP
','f','',71,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
72,'dba','dba Project',872,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/dba/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/dba/',9);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11332,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','grouping of subject',103,0,'
<00> line has abbreviated name that ties in with the group list (ascii file).
We need the grouping to be applied to the <01> line underneath the relevant <00> line.
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11333,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','Changes to data files',3,11332,'
Any changes that I make to the data files will be given under this message.
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11334,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','Re: Changes to data files',3,11333,'
MAIN006.ASC line 395 : Added <99>
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11335,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','Changes to Subject file',3,11333,'
The changes are on the site in
<a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/archive/dba/subject_changes.shtml\'>subject_changes.shtml</a>.
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11336,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','Re: grouping of subject',3,11332,'
I have gone through the mismatches and reduced them from 240 to 79.
The remaining mismatches are given in <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/archive/dba/mismatches.shtml\'>mismatches</a>.
Yours
Tim
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11337,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','Flag values',3,11332,'
Please supply me with the values for the * flags,
and any other substitutions that you want.
(I have found a load of abbreviations for chairman, secretary, etc).
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11338,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','Re: Flag values',3,11337,'
Thanks for the values,
See the actual values encountered at
<a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/archive/dba/contact_values.shtml\'>Contact field values</a>.
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11339,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','Test files available',3,11332,'
Marion,
The sample file is on the site, download it and the
.def file and build.
All the templates work, and I have added two new fields
<tt>contact type</tt> and <tt>membership number type</tt>.
Hope this will do as I must not spend any time
on this until I have finished Catalyst.
I think there will still neeed to be some editting of the
original data, but we are getting there.
Would the end customer benefit from a system which kept his data cleaner?
Could you sell it to him?
yours
TimP
(3.30am)
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11340,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','Re: Test files available',3,11339,'
PS
look at the script,
it is big and contains a lot of rules about the data.
yours
tim
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11341,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','hr in 01',103,0,'
There should not be any <HR> between the organisation, and
the abbreviation and the year formed
although it appears ok in TOC it is not correct in the NFO,
the three are not on the same line.
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11342,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','Re: hr in 01',3,11341,'
>There should not be any <HR> between the organisation, and
>the abbreviation and the year formed
>although it appears ok in TOC it is not correct in the NFO,
>the three are not on the same line.
Well done, on using the web site.
I will wait until all comments have been made,
if that is ok.
yours
timP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11343,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','some corrections',103,0,'
1. The words fax, email and web have gone but need to be in
2. There should be a space between the two parts of the postcodes
3. The publication field is not coming up properly, perhaps because sometimes the abbreviation appears
within brackets eg (Journal or NL)
4. Where the Membership number is a y this should be changed
to a 0 and fielded the same ,
sorry this is my fault I forgot it
5. where the type of constitution is more than one one and is separated by a comma
these should be separately fielded
6. activities ? i will ask if all the activities separated by hyphens should be fielded, but instructions were only those in the list i GAVE YOU SHOULD BE
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11344,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','continue',103,0,'
must have hit the wrong key, didnt mean the last one
to end with caps
(shouting)
I can fix all the above except the last (activities)in the
flatfile.
If you can fix them for the main that will be fine. I need
to have the demo sorted by tuesday night.
probably email and www are self esplanatory and
I will confirm whether fax should be in.
I would now like to stop and I am sure you would too.
It looks pretty good to me and once the above are done all
will be nearly 100%
Thanks Marion
no emails received by me since you phoned. see you thursday.
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11345,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999',' first corrections post proofing',103,0,'
i have now done all that seems necessary to the demo. Most in the
fff but some had to be done in the NFO.
Changes made in FFF are
1. Removed <PS:organisation>
2. Remove <PS: abbreviation> plus <HR>
3. Remove <PS: year formed> plus <HR>
4. Remove FD: address
5. Where membership is y this was not picked up, please change all y to o(zero) and apply fields as per all the others
6. Remove <HR> at end of each record. this is the most crucial thing and sorted all the blue lines and headings out.
7. Space before second part of postcode added
8. Where [HR] appears everywhere except in first line (alternative name) I changed it to a <CR> this worked well and put the second contact or publication on to another line.
Manually in NFO
9. Type of constitution - where there are two separated by a ; please field each separately
10. Why does FD activities appear twice both as "activities" and activities - left in but ? if necessary
11. need to discuss activites with Cris for final
12. Publications gave me the most work. I did them manually in the NFO. I will come up with a definitive answer on them later this week. So no need to do anything other than the [HR} as discussed above.
All in all it looks pretty good and once the above are done will be fantastic.
We may need to put in the word Fax to identify the fax numbers will let you know.
If you can do all of the first 10 will let you know about the last two on Thursday.
i will now attempt to send you the new fff as amended.
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11346,'Wed Sep 15 23:33:09 1999','clarification',103,0,'
I now have clarification on the following
Telephone line to be preceded by tel: (one space)
Fax line to be preceded by fax: (one space)
Email line to be preceded by e-mail: (one space
The word Branches: (one space)to begin the line Branches
I have done all these in the fff in about a minute.
All activities to remain fielded as you have done
.- great stuff.
ALL publications also to be fielded not just the expanded words as
I said previously - sorry I got it wrong. but these werent
working anyway. the M tag separates each publication
and should be able to be done like the activities.
In my last note I said that the contacts should be on separate lines this is to be confirmed.
Bye thanks.marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11347,'Thu Sep 10 18:02:40 1998','affiliations',103,0,'
this paragraph contains very many abbreviations
which need to be expanded. Cris does not have it
electronically so if I am to
key it in in what format would you like it?
eg U Union
Utd United
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11348,'Thu Sep 10 20:23:42 1998','final',103,0,'
his is the final definitive styling for the main files. I shall go line by line so I hope that you can follow.
UNDERLINING IS FOR EMPHASIS NOT BECAUSE IT MUST LOOK LIKE THAT
However the most important change
1.remove the <HR> at the end of every record.
<00> Isle of Man is not spelt with two nns please change
<01> remove <PS: organisation> where there is an alternative name put 3 spaces then ( ) around name then 3 spaces
<02> remove <PS:abbreviation> and <HR>
<03> remove <PS: year formed. and <HR>
these form the top line and will be enclosed in two blue lines
<05> remove <FD: address>
space after first part of Postcode (ie the fielded part)
<06> begin with tel followed by 1 space
<07> begin with fax followed by 1 space
<08> begin with e-mail followed by 1 space
<10> expand all words as per list supplied you - ensure that there are apostrophes where appropriate
<11> where there is second contact they should be on the same line
<23> where there are two types of constitution these should be separately fielded - they are separated by <M11>
<12> begin with Branches: 1space
<13> fine as is
<14> begin with Groups: 1space
<15> All abbreviations to be expanded exactly as supplied previously and all activities fielded
Why does <PS: Activities> appear both in "" and not ie twice?
<16> Affiliations - this is the real bug… there are lots of abbreviations here which need expanding and see my message earlier, I will supply if you can let me know SOON
<17> remove all <TB> there should be 3 spaces between each membership type -
<18> expansions must all be done as provided eg NL is Newsletter NOT newsletter and List of members
ALSO each publication on a new line with a <CR> not a <HR> where your [HR] is or <M18> in database AND all fielded
<19> Former name / year changed: 1 space to begin line --- nonmembers to be non-members
<21> <CS:Bold>Note <TB> to begin line - ie the word Note should be BOLd charater style
give me a ring if you are confused.
marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11349,'Sun Sep 13 16:47:39 1998','nothing is ever final',103,0,'
Reread instructions.
03 obviously do not remove HR from end of this line,
but all HRs within the line
23 the reference to M11 is for the line above ie 11
14 groups -there are abbreviations here too,
eg Cees which will also need expanding.
I am now back from three days of bridge
including having won one session with
my partner. So feeling pretty chuffed.
Had some internationals and national players
along with us.
look forward to hearing from you.
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11350,'Wed Sep 16 22:36:02 1998','hi im back',103,0,'
I would prefer that the whole chameleon site
was password protected please.
Off to bed after folk club.
If you send me something
to go on with in the morning I will do it.
Friday is suitable for coming over as I have to go to
winchester tomorrow at 6pm
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11351,'Thu Sep 17 5:47:30 1998','State of play',3,0,'
Marion,
I have put your instructions and status
<a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/archive/dba/changes.shtml\'>here</a>.
There are a few questions which I hope you can clear up by time I get up :)
The list of words that appear in the fields is quite big, so will not post it,
will try to get it more sensible.
yours
Tim.
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11352,'Thu Sep 17 5:58:11 1998','After thoughts',3,0,'
>The list of words that appear in the fields is quite big, so will not post it,
>will try to get it more sensible.
On second thoughts it is on the site.
It is only 640K and it contains the words in both Activities and Affiliations.
It has to be a human job.
I suggest that you download it in netscape,
go Ctrl-A to select all the text and then paste to
PFe, that way you will lose all the html formatting.
Third Thoughts, I will do that for you and put it up as a text file.
yours
tim
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11353,'Thu Sep 17 9:12:40 1998','abbreviations in Groups',103,0,'
as per my changes requested and your message changes required.
01 you can leave parastyle organisation IN
05 there must be a space between the two halves of the postcode, ie after the fielded part
eg OX8 6QA
23 two types of constitution must be separately fielded
09 NO do not need web written in
14 Groups there are many abbreviations here to be expanded
15 you will see that sometimes there are two parastyles
in this one line one having quotes and one not, perhaps this has now been cleared up.
ALSo I thought the activities fields had all been expanded already
18 did you do this ie each publication on a new line and fielded - separator is M18
rest looks OK
Please phone when you wake.
I would like to see finished product as far
as you have done today please.
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11354,'Thu Sep 17 15:45:33 1998','Persistent record IDs',3,0,'
<h2>To enable shadow files</h2>
Shadow files need a consistant and persistant record id.
We can allocate record IDs and keep a record of which ones we have allocated.
The key field for the records is the 00 field,
so the main run needs to output a file with
record id followed by the contents of the 00 field.
This file then needs to be fed back to the production process ASAP, before any new records are added.
The next version of the data file should then contain the record ids in a new field.
Any new records inserted will need to have a new record ID allocated by the input procedure.
yours
TimP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11355,'Thu Sep 17 15:47:35 1998','Siet vistit on Friday 18/09/98',3,0,'
The site visit is to install:
Website
Perl
Perl CGI
Paneris website
DBA script
DBA data file
I am assuming/know that you already have PFE.
I am aiming to get to you by 2pm, but must jump if
Catalyst whistle.
yours
TimP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11356,'Thu Sep 17 22:46:03 1998','State of play 17/09/98 22:55',3,0,'
Marion,
I have used the files you sent for the Groups and Affiliations abbreviations.
The Site page is updated with words found in fields 14,15 and 16.
Can you confirm that I have done the right thing with the <em>Remaining mismatches</em>?
The sample fff is on the site.
I have built the main NFO, will look at tomorrow.
All I have to do when I get back from the pub is load the right things onto a zip disk.
I have done nothing for Catalyst, and only a few recorded hours for you, yet seem to have worked all day :(
yours
tim
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11357,'Fri Sep 18 3:06:18 1998','Record IDs',3,0,'
The record Ids are printed out given <a href=\'/partners/chameleon/archive/dba/record_ids.dat\'>here</a>.
Yours
Tim
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11358,'Sat Sep 19 21:16:07 1998','alphabetical list',103,0,'
The main.asc data base needs to be in straight alphabetical order.
At present it is in alphabetical order for each country
is there a way that you can sort this for me please or tell me how to do
it - kind of important.
I have built a main.nfo and otherwise things look
pretty good. Only took 6 minutes.
Will let you rest of information about Cris\' system
when I know it. He works in Kent, miles away.
I hope I know how to transfer the new main.asc when
done to my machine. open the site through netscape with
web open? Perhaps a dumb question
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11359,'Sun Sep 20 12:19:12 1998','Sorting Main',3,0,'
At 21:16 19/09/98 +0100, you wrote:
>New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/archive/dba/messages/27.shtml
>
>Subject: alphabetical list
>From: marion hazzledine (marion@chameleonhh.co.uk) (194.168.123.125)
>
>The main.asc data base needs to be in straight alphabetical order.
>
>At present it is in alphabetical order for each country
>
>is there a way that you can sort this for me please or tell me how to do
>it - kind of important.
OK, this is a change to the specification. Hiopefully you have gained
additional time for delivery.
Yes I can do it, in fact it is quite easy, but it takes
an hour to try it, email you etc.
Any change from the customer must put the delivery date back (golden rule).
>I have built a main.nfo and otherwise things look
> pretty good. Only took 6 minutes.
Excellent.
>
>Will let you rest of information about Cris\' system
>when I know it. He works in Kent, miles away.
>
>I hope I know how to transfer the new main.asc when
>done to my machine. open the site through netscape with
>web open? Perhaps a dumb question
>
I think that the best bet is to send you the perl script I used.
yours
timP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11360,'Sun Sep 20 12:37:36 1998','re: Sorting Main',3,11359,'
>>
>>The main.asc data base needs to be in straight alphabetical order.
>>
>>At present it is in alphabetical order for each country
>>
>>is there a way that you can sort this for me please or tell me how to do
>>it - kind of important.
>OK, this is a change to the specification. Hiopefully you have gained
>additional time for delivery.
>Yes I can do it, in fact it is quite easy, but it takes
>an hour to try it, email you etc.
>Any change from the customer must put the delivery date back (golden rule).
So please try to get some slack, and keep it to ourselves,
so that we can take a little stress out of our lives.
All that having been said, the script to do it is on the site (blueball).
Put this file in c:\paneris\cgi-bin overwriting the file that is currently called pfe_input.pl
Then open PFE and go to c:\paneris\partners\chameleon\dba\ and open any file.
(then close it again, you are just telling pfe where we are working).
Then go Alt X R.
Save commandOutput window as main2.asc
Rename main.asc to main.old
Rename main2.asc main.asc
Re run script (dba.pl).
yours
timP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11361,'Sun Sep 20 15:07:35 1998','output file',103,0,'
I have saved the pfeinput file
I have opened and closed pfe
when I open pfe it automatically opens the new pfeinput file
I closed that down
I then keyed in alt x r
put in the name of the new output as main2.asc but left the
working directory as c;\pfe and got this message
[[C:\PFE]]
Bad command or file name
so before i screw things up perhaps there is
a line of intruction i havent done right.
Should I put in another working directory?
Mowing the grass back here at 5.
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11362,'Sun Sep 20 21:08:31 1998','The Way Forward',3,0,'
The maintenance of IDs
To create maintainable Ids we will have to renumber the bumf
(front and back matter + letter headings etc),
so that we can reconcile in the future.
(You didn\'t tell me you wanted letters in, if you had you would have them !!)
So:
1. Build up main.fff.
2. Insert bumf
3. Cut CD , send as example to Chris
4. At same time cut CD with flat file (with IDs) and send to me
5. I will write a script which renumbers any ID which does not start with an A or a B to one starting with a B.
6. I will cut a CD (with my new CD-R) containing new FFF and send to you.
7. I will also give you the script, so that you can do it yourself next time.
Separately we need to write a project plan for the transfer of all of Chris\'s
working system to a new Win95 machine running Access, probably over an intranet.
This to disrupt his work as little as possible.
yours
TimP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11363,'Mon Sep 21 1:22:33 1998','Invoice',3,0,'
Marion,
The invoice is on the site.
It is for less than 2K,
you can bump it up if you think that I deserve it :)
yours
TimP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11364,'Mon Sep 21 10:11:42 1998','Re: Invoice',103,11363,'
>Marion,
>The invoice is on the site.
>It is for less than 2K,
>you can bump it up if you think that I deserve it :)
>yours
>TimP
not sure if im doing this right.
i will wait until main cd is passed before making that final decision. OK?
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11365,'Mon Sep 21 19:48:19 1998','Data Delivery',3,0,'
Marion,
The site now reflects the words found in Affiliations,
Activities and Groups, after the inclusion of Main002.asc.
I appologise for the exclusion of Main002.asc,
and assume that it occured when I amalgamated the files.
I believe that our present strategy of re-delivering the data
is better and more professional, the work to date is far from wasted,
as we now have a better understanding of the data format and
better procedures for checking that the data is transformed
in a way which looses nothing.
A good quality check would be to ask Chris to tell us
how many records he is sending, then we can check how many
we have produced.
You also mentioned that you wished to insert by hand
various other matter, in particular letters as heading levels.
We now have the time to amend the program to insert these at
the appropriate points, especially as the data is now sorted before
the main process is run.
I think that we should give thought to what other manual
changes you plan to make and try to eliminate them as far
as possible.
To the extent of having the front and back matter in
separate nfos; which my process reads and inserts at the
top and bottom. This way I can ensure that no record Ids
are created by Folio, but are all allocated by the process.
yours
Tim
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11366,'Thu Sep 24 8:26:21 1998','new files',103,0,'
new files arrive today.
there is one change - in Field 10 -Type of address
ONLY hq- headquarters is to remain
ALL other words in this field to be removed
If you send me the instructions on how
to do this I will do it myself
Appreciate before 1pm if poss as we have a client in this pm
Thanks
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11367,'Thu Sep 24 10:50:55 1998','Re: new files',3,11366,'
>new files arrive today.
>there is one change - in Field 10 -Type of address
>ONLY hq- headquarters is to remain
>ALL other words in this field to be removed
>If you send me the instructions on how
>to do this I will do it myself
Easier to do it myself.
The new script is on the site.
Have a look at <b>sub field_10_formatter</b>
I now only expand hq, everything else is cut.
>Appreciate before 1pm if poss as we have a client in this pm
10.50 do?
>Thanks
>Marion
Yours
timP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11368,'Mon Sep 28 17:01:32 1998','Small Changes ',3,0,'
Tim
Having built the nfo there are anly minor changes
1. In Field 10 where we only want headquarters all the other words are
still coming through - please tell me how to remove
2. In Publications Field 18 where NL etc is in brackets it has not been
expanded. AND
Where the abbreviations appear in 2nd or subsequent lines they are also
not expanded
3. Where two types of constitution Field 23 are separated by a comma
these are still running together. Please field these separately.
4. Where Postcode is for ireland ie Dublin 4 or foreign I think we will
have to do manual job as I the pattern may not be consistent enough
unless we can say
CAPS and NUMBERS only otherwise ignore - tricky?
Leave this with you now until Tuesday.
Cris made NO changes to the subject file.
Have a good weekend.
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11369,'Sun Oct 4 4:26:32 1998','Publication data',3,0,'
Marion,
I have, or nearly have, corrected all the missing M18 codes
and hyphens occurring in field 18.
Tommorrow I will compare with manual,
make further corrections,
Write to CD
I will give you a call, esp if I need to bring my PC to
your house or anything like that.
It is 4.20am so please don\'t phone.
yours
timP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11370,'Tue Oct 6 12:47:41 1998','Alphabetization request (19/09/98)',103,0,'Posted on behalf of Marion by TimP
The data base needs to be in straight alphabetical order.
At present it is in alphabetical order for each country starting with
ireland.
is there a way that you can sort this for me please or tell me how to do
it - kind of important.
I have built main.nfo and otherwise things look pretty good.
Wil let you rest of information when I know it. He works in Kent, miles
away.
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11371,'Tue Oct 6 12:51:53 1998','Enhancement request (02/10/98)',103,0,'Posted on behalf of Marion by TimP
Tim
Thank you for your time.
The three things that could be added to your list are
1. <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?oth\'>oth</a>; (not sure if in caps or not) in field 17 should be treated as
all (oth) in the same paragraph
2. The word irreg to be expanded to irregular. It is important that you
state when irreg is the whole word as, if it only part then those times
when irregular is already expanded it will become irregularirregular -
if you understand or somehthing like that.
3. Where Note follows directly on from <01> please remember where the BH
and EH go. This is always a tricky one.
I hope that you will be able to deliver/send post on the web the new
main.asc plus dba.pl by end of tomorrow. I think that I wil give ruth a
bottle of champagne for being such an understanding girlfriend. Will do
tomorrow.
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11372,'Tue Oct 6 13:02:17 1998','Re: Enhancement request (02/10/98)',3,11371,'
>Tim
>Thank you for your time.
>The three things that could be added to your list are
>1. [oth ]; (not sure if in caps or not) in field 17 should be treated as
>all (oth) in the same paragraph
Have now ensured that it is case insensitive.
>2. The word irreg to be expanded to irregular. It is important that you
>state when irreg is the whole word as, if it only part then those times
>when irregular is already expanded it will become irregularirregular -
>if you understand or somehthing like that.
Done (prior to re-run).
>3. Where Note follows directly on from <01> please remember where the BH
>and EH go. This is always a tricky one.
This is still a problem.
I don\'t expect you want to re-run, but will place latest version on site.
yours
timP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11373,'Tue Oct 6 13:03:44 1998','Re: Alphabetization request (19/09/98)',3,11370,'
Data is now sorted and index line inserted on change of
first letter.
(done prior to re-run).
yours
TimP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11374,'Tue Oct 6 13:06:52 1998','Re: Small Changes ',3,11368,'
>Tim
>Having built the nfo there are anly minor changes
>1. In Field 10 where we only want headquarters all the other words are
>still coming through - please tell me how to remove
Done.
>2. In Publications Field 18 where NL etc is in brackets it has not been
>expanded. AND
>Where the abbreviations appear in 2nd or subsequent lines they are also
>not expanded
Done.
>3. Where two types of constitution Field 23 are separated by a comma
>these are still running together. Please field these separately.
Done.
>4. Where Postcode is for ireland ie Dublin 4 or foreign I think we will
>have to do manual job as I the pattern may not be consistent enough
>unless we can say
>CAPS and NUMBERS only otherwise ignore - tricky?
I have done this for Dublin, have not doen for others.
>Leave this with you now until Tuesday.
>Cris made NO changes to the subject file.
Yes he did :)
yours
timP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11375,'Tue Oct 6 13:26:31 1998','Way forward (06/10/98)',3,0,'
Marion,
It sounds as though everything is going OK.
I have been through the correspondence and don\'t believe that
I have missed anything.
If we are going to try to do one of these books again then
we need to have a bit of a think.
If I were to approach the job, from scratch,
I think that I would use Access, even if we were not going to
automate the customers production process.
The job can, I think, be properly described as a
Database Publishing Project, it is just that we didn\'t use a database :)
Database technology is very good for producing lists of field contents, and
enabling us to spot inconsistencies, also it would give you
control over the content, so that I would not have to make content decisions.
Of course, if we were to go down this route both you and I would need
proper machines with proper copies of Access on them.
If we were to go down this route then Web publishing and
updating the clients own production process would fall out,
almost as pure profit.
As I see it the steps would be:
1. Get clients commitment to one or more of
a) Us to publish another directory
b) Us to put DBA on web
c) Us to modernise his production process
Obviously it would be good if he wanted all three
2. Purchase and install Access here and with you
3. Design database using existing file structure, with special attention to publications.
4. Load database with DBA data
5. Write FFF output from database (this should look
exactly the same as our current FFF).
6. Play with enhancements to current format.
7. Tidy data to perfection :)
8. Write web output routines/search
9. Write data input screens for data maintenance (online and in Kent)
10. Install Web version
11. Install new system in Kent
12. Respond to customer enhancement requests forever :)
What do you think ?
yours
TimP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11376,'Thu Oct 8 9:18:51 1998','invoice',103,0,'
Dear Tim
Cant see any other invoice.
Will take a look tomorrow. I am off today.
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11377,'Thu Oct 8 12:57:37 1998','Re: invoice',3,11376,'
>Dear Tim
>Cant see any other invoice.
I have not made an invoice,
as we have not agreed a price, but there is a line,
at the bottom of the page saying \'work not invoiced\',
next to a green button :)
>Will take a look tomorrow. I am off today.
Have a good day.
Tim
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11378,'Sat Oct 10 12:35:02 1998','chat on folio',103,0,'
Dear Tim
I have saved off the not invoiced and will come back once Cd has gone for pressing.
Please have a look at my message on the Folio chat.
Do you know how the query tool works,
that bar at the bottom of the screen.
I must produce an infobase with NO previous queries in it.
Is this another Folio feature?
Never got my day off
Marion
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11379,'Sat Oct 31 19:36:31 1998','DBA Invoice 2',3,0,'
Marion,
welcome back, glad everything went OK.
As promised the invoice for the phase 2 work is on the site,
(invoice 81).
I am pretty strapped at the moment, so prompt payment would be
appreciated :)
yours
timP
','f','',72,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
73,'journals','journals Project',873,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/journals/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/journals/',9);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11380,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:56 1998','Project Request',108,0,'Posted on behalf of DavidH by TimP
Dear Tim,
We have been asked to quote for doing some work on a university journals
site and have a few questions.
They want a full-text, boolean and fielded, search engine on their site
(Fields would be title, author, abstract, keywords etc.). The documents
would be in PDF format. There would be about 150 articles to search
across.
How easy/hard is this? What software would you need? Pricing? etc.
They want to be able to click on a PDF icon and then download the file
after entering a subscription number and having this verified.
Would you therefore need to know what kind of database they store this
info in before you could say how easy/hard/expensive it would be to do?
They also want an automated emailer where you enter details of the
journals you\'re interested in and then get notified when the latest
version is available. This will need an automatic unsubscribe feature.
The site the clients like is: http://www.journals.cup.org/
They want something similar - don\'t tell me that it\'s crap that way,
that\'s what they want!!! They\'ve turned down a number of other
suggestions and tenders so they\'re obviously fussy.
Can you look at this and tell us how much you\'d charge to set this type
of thing up, bearing in mind the points above.
I expect you\'ll want to ask lots of questions like what server etc. are
they using. They don\'t know much and it\'s all sort of up in the air at
the moment but we can ask if you like.
I\'m sending you an email by the way and not going through your site
because we don\'t know whether it\'s going to come to anything or not.
Dave
PS
Know much about XML?
Folio 5 may well be in XML but this is just a rumour so don\'t quote me.
','f','',73,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11381,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:56 1998','Data',108,0,'Posted on behalf of DavidH by TimP
Dear Tim,
Attached are the PostScript files we\'ve been sent (they are the .txt
files). I can use Ghostscript/Ghostview to look at them and covert them
to plain text (fine, no problem) or PDF (not fine - looks crap - see the
attached test.PDF for an example).
Ghostview can be found at http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/index.html if
you want it (if you haven\'t already got it).
Also attached are the HTML files I\'ve already knocked together (mostly
cannibalizing their pages so don\'t blame me if the codes crap). This is
sort of how we\'d envisage it looking but we are open to suggestions.
What we\'d want from you is a PostScript to HTML coverter (and a
PostScript to PDF converter as well if it looks good enough). Also the
automated email alerting service I mentioned last time and the security
password stuff. On this front, have you got any
preferences/reccommendations for the database you\'d want the subscribers
info kept in? They seem pretty open to suggestions about it.
Ideally we\'d prefer to be able to work from the PostScript files and do
the converting to PDF ourselves as this means we could do the work at
the same time as the printer and have the stuff on the web as soon as
the journals are ready to go out (or before even).
We\'d also like to be able to either handle futre issues ourselves or
else be able to teach them how to do it - they\'re not sure which way
they\'d like to go yet.
Hope this is enough info but let me know if you need more.
We also have another 3 leads for doing the same sort of stuff - journals
onto the web with full search etc etc. Two of these would be in Quark
but I don\'t know about the other. More info on them as it comes -
hopefully some Quark files should be on their way/coming soon.
Right, now down to the important stuff!!!
Where were your Glastonbury pics? I went to your site late Sunday night
but couldn\'t find any! You also need to check your picture links as the
\'98 pics didn\'t seem to be there (in your gallery thingy).
Sally said Dylan and Tony Bennet were great - don\'t suppose they were
your cup of tea though were they?
I hear it was a little bit muddy as well. Never mind.
David
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','f','',73,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11382,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:56 1998','Re: Project Request',1,11380,'Posted on behalf of timJ by TimP
Tim
>
>They want a full-text, boolean and fielded, search engine on their site
>(Fields would be title, author, abstract, keywords etc.). The documents
>would be in PDF format. There would be about 150 articles to search
>across.
>How easy/hard is this? What software would you need? Pricing? etc.
Dunno if it helps, but MS (despite all their sins) handle this with their
free search engine (comes with NT / IIS), which has plug-ins for parseing
different formats (including pdf).
','f','',73,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11383,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:56 1998','Requirement',103,0,'Posted on behalf of Marion H by TimP
Dear Tim
Quote from Catherine Donald
"we would want the electronic journals to fit in with the rest of the
site and for our subscribers to access the journals without much
difficulty"
"We would requie software which deals with access control, passwords and
general administration, and can easily be updated according to our
customers needs"
They are building a new database of all subscribers details, in what was
not known at time I last spoke to her.
"we have been looking at other sites and providers and do like the way
CUP have organised their journals."
"we would like to search across multiple journals /issues"
The monthly updating and uploading will be quoted for and we expect to
run any programs at Chameleon. We envisage something like £500 an issue
so hope that the program and process will be part of the main quote from
you Tim.
"we would want the PDF files to be viewed using Adobe Acrobat".
We are installing a new NT server her very soon that maybe able to host
the on-line journals, or we could may be use a unix server in the
university".
Make suggestions here. It seems better to use their own NT on site I
think.
Catherine\'s email is
C.Donald@man.ac.uk
her phone is
0161 275 7728
Our quote to include
Project management
drawing up specifiction
taking delivery of Post script files
conversion of same to PDF and HTML
design of page
search engine design
email link
uploading
beta version and corrections
final upload
also the monthly updating/uploading of new journals on a regular basis -
we aim to keep this relatively inexpensive (say two days work)
Please be in touch later.
We confirm that any project remains ours but that you may access the
client so long as we know. Any information on your site should be
password protected with agreed word in lower case.
Marion
','f','',73,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11384,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:56 1998','Development Site',3,0,'
Dave,
The development area is http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/archive/journals/development/
I have put up the example files, but think we need to do a lot of work before it is presentable.
yours
Tim
','f','',73,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11385,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:56 1998','Visit Agenda',103,0,'Posted on behalf of MarionH by TimP
Tim
Attached is a list of things to be discussed on wednesday. I dont think
it is necessary for you to come. Catherine is not interested in the
technical side of how it will work.
from our point of view it seems important that we ask her the right
questions and that so long as you get the answers you need and can ask
any more should they arise that will be sufficient.
Please add any questions as you see necessary.
This way you do not need to get up early, you can usefully spend the day
rather than sitting in a meeting for an hour and travelling for about 6.
My experience is that companies only see you for an hour unless it is on
our premises in which case it is all day.
It is up to us to persuade her that we can provide what she wants at a
decent price (you quoted 7 days at 300 for your bit - expect that still
to stand).
we have have just got a job with Bournemouth Univeristy so that will
improve our credibility.
Marion
','f','',73,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11386,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:56 1998','Re: Visit Agenda',3,11385,'
Marion,
I have created an agenda on the site.
Please feel free to update it.
I am happy to stick to my estimate and do think that
it may be better if you and David do the visit without me.
I will try to get all my worries on written down
before the meeting.
yours
tim
','f','',73,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11387,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:55 1998','Re: Visit Agenda',1,11386,'
OK, would be grateful for all ideas by about 4pm, Thanks
Marion
','f','',73,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
74,'charlbury','charlbury Project',874,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/charlbury/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/charlbury/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11388,'Mon Feb 8 18:07:03 1999','demo for charlbury',103,0,'
I have asked for the specs electronically and hope to get them tomorrow when I will email them plus the files to you.
Marion
','f','',74,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11389,'Wed Feb 10 1:24:00 1999','Brief ',3,0,'
Marion,
I am sure that, as ever, you are under enormous amounts of pressure.
I do not know how long you have been working on this project,
but the brief is just not clear enough.
I have had to work on the brief document for 3 hours to get it readable.
(Try looking at the previous versions).
The files in format1 and format2 zips are not explained, what is the difference?
What do you mean by suits me best?
Format1 contains:
Address.txt
People.txt
Figures.txt
Adv1.txt
Adv2.txt
Format2 contains:
Alldata.txt
Alladv.txt
Why are you making me guess, when you know?
My guess:
Format2 is rubbish
Format1 gives:
Adv1.txt Company Name and Address
Adv2.txt Further breakdown
Address.txt Does not tie to codes in Adv1, which contains address anyway
People.txt Key does not match others, but presumably ties to adv1
Figures.txt Key does not match others, but presumably ties to adv1
Note text.txt is not suplied???
It does not look as though the data is correct.
I certainly can\'t understand it.
I am afraid that we are rushing into another disaster.
Why do you have to know tomorrow?
Can I speak with someone who knows the datastructure?
As it stands the project is too undefined to quote on.
The Folio conversion would require:
Defined data delivery format:
probably an access database.
Statement of data quality:
How clean is it and if not 100% then what do we do with rubbish?
Defined Folio output:
What fields, records?
For the web project we need to know:
Where will it be housed:
What operating system would the server use?
What should be shown on a single page:
One Record?
Do they need to update the data online?
So given the provisios of:
1. Data delivery format defined
2. Output format defined
3. Linux Webserver
4. Batch updating of the webserver
I would guess at:
2500 gbp for the Folio Version
2000 gbp for the webversion
1000 gbp contingency
====
5500 gbp
This sounds a lot, and would come down in the light of more knowledge.
I insist with all my partners that I may talk, at least by email,
with a technical person within the end customer organisation.
If you can neither provide me with the level of detail
that is required nor let me talk to someone who can then
I cannot see how the project can be attempted.
yours
timP
','f','',74,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
75,'fff','fff Project',875,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/fff/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/fff/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11390,'Wed Sep 15 23:24:04 1999','Folio flat file for images',103,0,'Posted on behalf of MarionH by TimP
As per our conversation
Please send us the program for importing numerous jpgs into views in one
go. Please also include instructions.
All Jpgs will be in a directory in the correct order eg, house -
bung001.jpg, bung002.jpg that001.jpg, that002.jpg etc
We will test it and if it meets our requirements we will send you a p/o
for £20 as agreed unless we need modifications in which case the price
will be agreed.
Thanks Marion
','f','',75,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11391,'Wed Sep 15 23:24:04 1999','Re: Folio flat file for images',3,11390,'
Marion,
At 09:03 01/04/98 +0100, you wrote:
>As per our conversation
>
>Please send us the program for importing numerous jpgs into views in one
>go. Please also include instructions.
Program attached.
>
>All Jpgs will be in a directory in the correct order eg, house -
>bung001.jpg, bung002.jpg that001.jpg, that002.jpg etc
>
>We will test it and if it meets our requirements we will send you a p/o
>for £20 as agreed unless we need modifications in which case the price
>will be agreed.
>
Sounds good.
>Thanks Marion
Sorry I took to long to reply.
yours
Tim
','f','',75,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11392,'Wed Sep 15 23:24:04 1999','Modifications Required',108,0,'Posted on behalf of DaveH by TimP
Dear Tim,
Thanks for the perl script and your help getting it working.
I think I\'m doing things the right way as all the pictures are placed in
the infobase. The problem is they don\'t appear in-line. They are in the
equivalent of the \'Object Manager\' but not visible on screen.
This means we would have to put all the pictures into the infobase
manually which is a real hassle (well it is if you\'re talking about
18,000 of them anyway).
I realise not putting them in-line might be the sensible thing to do
normally, but is there any way we can have the pictures automatically
appear in-line?
Ideally I\'d like it to create an infobase from scratch with all the
pictures in-line - kind of like a graphic version of the script you
wrote for HMCE.
Please let us know what\'s possible and not etc.
Regards Dave =:-)
','f','',75,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11393,'Wed Sep 15 23:24:04 1999','Re: Modifications Required',3,11392,'
Script completed and on the site.
Remeber to create a def file by hand (imgs.def).
yours
Tim
','f','',75,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11394,'Wed Sep 15 23:24:04 1999','Further Mods',108,0,'Posted on behalf of DaveH by timP
Dear Tim,
The script now puts the images in-line beautifully - thanks for that!
We would like a couple of teeny weeny little enhancements to the script
if possible though!
1. Could we make each picture have an object link to itself so that when
you click on it it appears in the object pane and you can then zoom in
or out on it.
2. Can we attach a paragrpah style to the images (image style?)
3. Can we have another paragraph underneath each image so that we can
include a caption ? We would like this paragraph to have a paragraph
style as well (caption style?).
4. We would want the image and caption paragraphs to be one record.
We realise this is slightly (!) more than we originally asked for so
would be willing to take you out for lunch as extra payment. You haven\'t
seen us for so long you can\'t refuse.
Marion suggests Wednesday 29th (next Wednesday) at the Boot, at 12.45.
David
P.S. Have you heard from/been in contact with Guy de Roma?
','f','',75,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11395,'Wed Sep 15 23:24:04 1999','Re: Further Mods',3,11394,'
Script has been updated to create a def file,
and add an object link and paragraph styles.
Script is on site, but will email also.
yours
tim
','f','',75,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11396,'Wed Sep 15 23:24:04 1999','Link Script required',103,0,'Posted on behalf of MarionH by TimP
please quote for a perl programme
which will identify all refs in Word text
marked as [1] etc and link them to the footnotes
of the same number.
We wil need either the links to be pop-ups
containing the footnote or as simple jump links,
will give customer the option.
This wil have to apply to each section (will be able to specify
the heading level which separates the sections).
There is a small Problem which is that some refs are multiple
ie [3-7], we may have to do them manually if not possible,
but I beleive all is possible.
Can supply you with sample file. but not sure how to attach it to this!
','f','',75,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11397,'Wed Sep 15 23:24:04 1999','Re: Link Script required',3,11396,'
Marion,
Link script is now on site.
yours
Tim
','f','',75,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
76,'chameleon','chameleon Interface',876,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/chameleon/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/chameleon/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11398,'Wed Sep 15 22:31:23 1999','New node on Paneris',3,0,'
Hi Marion,
I have created a new node for you on Paneris.
(http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/)
You can create a new project page directly from the site.
Please feel free to start a project for the ventura conversion.
Yours
Tim
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11399,'Wed Sep 15 22:31:23 1999','links',103,0,'
please quote for a perl programme
which will identify all refs in Word text
marked as [1] etc and link them to the footnotes
of the same number.
We wil need either the links to be pop-ups
containing the footnote or as simple jump links,
will give customer the option.
This wil have to apply to each section (will be able to specify
the heading level which separates the sections).
There is a small Problem which is that some refs are multiple
ie [3-7], we may have to do them manually if not possible,
but I beleive all is possible.
Can supply you with sample file. but not sure how to attach it to this!
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11400,'Wed Sep 15 22:31:23 1999','grouping and convertor',103,0,'
To convert tagged asc files containing 7000 records
into Folio NFO.
All fielding has been agreed upon and a sample nfo will be
supplied.
The programme should recognise tags and convert them into
paragraph styles and fields.
All paragraph styles will be identified
A further file containing subject groups is also supplied
and this will be used in conjunction with the main files
to apply groups to each record.
A full set of tags and their meanings is supplied.
I look forward to seeing you on Friday at around 6pm
when I hope that we will be able to sort out any queries.
I would be grateful for completion by Friday 28th if
possible
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11401,'Wed Sep 15 22:31:23 1999','dba further',103,0,'
I did not have to use a password to get into this site??
Please can you also make all web addresses into links?
What progress have you made. Any chance for end of thursday?
thanks marion
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11402,'Wed Sep 15 22:31:23 1999','confirming two fields needing changes -clarification',103,0,'
1. activities only those words as supplied eg conference etc not the hyphens between
2. publications only the words supplied like handbook,
newletter not the whole line
3. TOC should have the 01 line plus any translation in
brackets then three spaces then 02 (abbreviation) then
three spaces then 03 (year formed)
4. remove extra spaces at begining of addresses
5. only first part of postcode fielded
6. 01 line to be para style and contain the field and country name BUT NOT appear in TOC.
This is just for confirmation
see you tomw
Marion
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11403,'Wed Sep 15 22:31:23 1999','Re: confirming two fields needing changes -clarification',3,11402,'
Come on Marion,
You are writing a document relevant to the dba project,
so you should be at the dba project when you post it,
so that it is attached to the dba project message board.
Did you realise that the messages boards were different wherever you are?
There is no way of deleting messages, nor of moving
them from place to place.
Can I suggest that you set aside the same length of time to learn
how to use paneris as you would to learning any other software package.
nagging
Tim
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11404,'Wed Sep 15 22:31:23 1999','Done ',3,11402,'
All implemented.
(I will probably try to tidy this thread up,
and put it under dba later)
yours
tim
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11405,'Fri Nov 27 13:44:37 1998','access database',103,0,'
We would like to discuss converting an access database to folio with you can you get back to me on the phone, I can send you a dataset in access 7.
Marion
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11406,'Wed Mar 3 12:14:55 1999','Chameleon wants to escape',3,0,'
Dear all,
<a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/>Chameleon</a> is a Paneris Partner and consists of Marion and David,
both of whom I have worked with at <a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/catalyst>Catalyst</a>.
Both Catalyst and Chameleon have specialised in <a href=http://www.folio.com>Folio</a>
Infobase production as their main publishing medium.
Folio is a big and successful company who invented their own hypertext way before the web.
The tag language is not SGML compliant.
The browser is expensive.
The publishing software requires a key which is very expensive.
The payment mechanism is royalty based, so publishers have to pay royalties on a
quarterley basis.
As you can imagine this is a locked-in situation which many end customers would like to
get out of.
So Marion asked me how would I replace Folio with a free package, so I am asking you.
The features that Folio offers which must be maintained or replaced:
Tagged ASCII source files (HTML)
Heirarchical search (Search whole document or a single chapter).
Must be able to run on a stand alone machine, preferably off a CD.
Should be able to import a section of the web or local files organised as though on a website.
The Folio market is a big one but most British publishers resent the royalty mechanism,
if we can offer an alternative to Folio and a migration path then
Chameleon, Catalyst and Context Computing should all benefit.
thanks in advance
TimP
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11407,'Wed Mar 3 12:45:02 1999','Re: Chameleon wants to escape',1,11406,'
>Heirarchical search (Search whole document or a single chapter).
>Must be able to run on a stand alone machine, preferably off a CD.
This requires a client side search. I have looked at this several times, but never had to actually use it. Your best bet is a java applet that works off a pre-built index. several implementations of this exist and some are freeish. we could write our own.
>Should be able to import a section of the web or local files organised as though on a website.
the java applets mentioned above tend to come with an index builder.
>The Folio market is a big one but most British publishers resent the royalty mechanism,
>if we can offer an alternative to Folio and a migration path then
>Chameleon, Catalyst and Context Computing should all benefit.
this is really very easy to achieve, although we would probably want to write our own indexer and search applet, we don\'t need to to produce a working prototype
>
>thanks in advance
is there really a market for this? i reccon a prototype could be hacked together in a day.
i have found some words i wrote for rab when they wanted their site to run off a cd, it has a link to the best search applet i found (at the time - 07/10/97). it\'s also quoted 1 day to get the applet working, which confirms the above estimate.
check it out:
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/rab/porting_to_java.html
the link to the applet no longer works, but check out his site at
http://www.easynet.it/~jhl/
he will licence the use for multiple cds for $300, and the full source for $750 (seems like a bargain). we could always ask him to join the team.
oriley use it for their cds-with-books, so it must be allright
timj
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11408,'Wed Mar 3 13:29:11 1999','Re: Chameleon wants to escape',4,11406,'
There is a free structured-hypertext document editor/browser
developed at INRIA called Thot. It seems to be of the
usual INRIA high quality, though I can\'t say I have used
it very much. You might find it very interesting in itself,
but unfortunately (a) it only runs on Unix---possibly
not a problem if you can foist Linux on people, and
(b) it will export HTML (and anything else you care to
define for it) but it will only load its own binary files.
http://www.inrialpes.fr/opera/Thot.en.html
You may also be interested in their Byzance cooperative
structured editing groupware, which sounds fun.
Development of Thot appears to have stopped in favour of
W3C\'s Amaya, for which Thot\'s libraries provide the
foundation. Amaya is groovy (e.g. supports the MathML
formula markup) and pretty, is HTML/XML-based, and seems
to have most of the handy features (e.g. structured
search) from Thot. Furthermore there are Windows binaries.
However it has a reputation for instability, which I was
able to verify at first hand on Linux ... should have let
INRIA do the whole job. Still, you might want a look at it:
http://www.w3.org/Amaya
What about using a standard word processor with decent
HTML import/export?
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11409,'Wed Mar 3 15:23:14 1999','Re: Chameleon wants to escape',3,11406,'
Dear John,
In response to a question I asked our group I have been to you site,
only to discover that you worked at Vospers Southampton while
I was at Support Projects (probably at Fareham House), small world :)
I could not figure out from your site exactly how you publish documentation to a CD.
Do you install a webserver off the CD or not?
I would be most grateful for your comments.
If it is not too much of a hassle could you follow the URL and post the message?
yours
Tim Pizey
>Dear all,
><a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/>Chameleon</a> is a Paneris Partner and consists of Marion and David,
>both of whom I have worked with at <a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/catalyst>Catalyst</a>.
>
>Both Catalyst and Chameleon have specialised in <a href=http://www.folio.com>Folio</a>
>Infobase production as their main publishing medium.
>Folio is a big and successful company who invented their own hypertext way before the web.
>The tag language is not SGML compliant.
>The browser is expensive.
>The publishing software requires a key which is very expensive.
>The payment mechanism is royalty based, so publishers have to pay royalties on a
>quarterley basis.
>
>As you can imagine this is a locked-in situation which many end customers would like to
>get out of.
>
>So Marion asked me how would I replace Folio with a free package, so I am asking you.
>The features that Folio offers which must be maintained or replaced:
>Tagged ASCII source files (HTML)
>Heirarchical search (Search whole document or a single chapter).
>Must be able to run on a stand alone machine, preferably off a CD.
>Should be able to import a section of the web or local files organised as though on a website.
>The Folio market is a big one but most British publishers resent the royalty mechanism,
>if we can offer an alternative to Folio and a migration path then
>Chameleon, Catalyst and Context Computing should all benefit.
>
>thanks in advance
>TimP
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11410,'Tue Mar 9 16:25:03 1999','Re: Re: Chameleon wants to escape',3,11409,'Posted on behalf of John Leach by TimP
>New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/messages/12.shtml
>
>Subject: Re: Chameleon wants to escape
>From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
>Dear John,
>
>In response to a question I asked our group I have been to you site,
>only to discover that you worked at Vospers Southampton while
>I was at Support Projects (probably at Fareham House), small world :)
>
>I could not figure out from your site exactly how you publish
documentation to a CD.
>Do you install a webserver off the CD or not?
No webserver, just a Java applet and some (optional) Javascript. There is a
compiler which reads all HTML files, and builds a compressed word search
database. The db and applet go on the CD-ROM, the compiler doesn\'t. There
is an applet search interface, or JavaScript search interface (which has a
closer look and feel to a web search engine).
I hope that clears up the problem, otherwise let me know.
A small world indeed. Does anyone still work for Vospers :)
>I would be most grateful for your comments.
>If it is not too much of a hassle could you follow the URL and post the
message?
I would if I could, but I\'m not sure *which* URL, perhaps you can do this
for me?
>yours
>Tim Pizey
>
Best regards,
John Leach
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11411,'Tue Mar 9 16:36:13 1999','Re: Re: Re: Chameleon wants to escape',3,11410,'
>>I could not figure out from your site exactly how you publish
>documentation to a CD.
>>Do you install a webserver off the CD or not?
>No webserver, just a Java applet and some (optional) Javascript. There is a
>compiler which reads all HTML files, and builds a compressed word search
>database. The db and applet go on the CD-ROM, the compiler doesn\'t. There
>is an applet search interface, or JavaScript search interface (which has a
>closer look and feel to a web search engine).
It does seem like a very nice system.
How should we go about trying it out?
>>I would be most grateful for your comments.
>>If it is not too much of a hassle could you follow the URL and post the
>message?
>I would if I could, but I\'m not sure *which* URL, perhaps you can do this
>for me?
Have done,
If you follow the url to the message then you can reply on the web.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11412,'Tue Mar 9 16:37:54 1999','Re: Re: Re: Chameleon wants to escape',3,11410,'
>>New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/messages/12.shtml
>>
>>Subject: Re: Chameleon wants to escape
>>From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>>
>>Dear John,
>>
>>In response to a question I asked our group I have been to you site,
>>only to discover that you worked at Vospers Southampton while
>>I was at Support Projects (probably at Fareham House), small world :)
>>
>>I could not figure out from your site exactly how you publish
>documentation to a CD.
>>Do you install a webserver off the CD or not?
>No webserver, just a Java applet and some (optional) Javascript. There is a
>compiler which reads all HTML files, and builds a compressed word search
>database. The db and applet go on the CD-ROM, the compiler doesn\'t. There
>is an applet search interface, or JavaScript search interface (which has a
>closer look and feel to a web search engine).
I like the sound of your product,
how should we procede?
Could you send me an example CD?
yours
timp
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11413,'Wed Mar 10 14:37:51 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Chameleon wants to escape',3,11412,'
At 16.37 09/03/99 GMT, you wrote:
>New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/messages/15.shtml
>
>Subject: Re: Re: Re: Chameleon wants to escape
>From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
>>>New message at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/messages/12.shtml
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: Chameleon wants to escape
>>>From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>>>
>>>Dear John,
>>>
>>>In response to a question I asked our group I have been to you site,
>>>only to discover that you worked at Vospers Southampton while
>>>I was at Support Projects (probably at Fareham House), small world :)
>>>
>>>I could not figure out from your site exactly how you publish
>>documentation to a CD.
>>>Do you install a webserver off the CD or not?
>
>>No webserver, just a Java applet and some (optional) Javascript. There is a
>>compiler which reads all HTML files, and builds a compressed word search
>>database. The db and applet go on the CD-ROM, the compiler doesn\'t. There
>>is an applet search interface, or JavaScript search interface (which has a
>>closer look and feel to a web search engine).
>
>I like the sound of your product,
>how should we procede?
You can buy a license :) Cheques to
John Leach, freelance software engineer
Via I Pindemonte 2/c
37126 Verona
Italia
Swift bank transfer:
Bank: Banca Popolare di Verona
Coordinate: VRBPIT2V007
Account: 15526
>Could you send me an example CD?
The only one I have (sent by a client) is in German, I also received the
Java CD-ROM from O\'Reilly, but I *use* it myself :) The search engine is on
the \'Java in a Nutshell\' book O\'Reilly press.
However, my web site www.easynet.it/~jhl uses the applet, and you can pick
up (download) the user manual which also uses it. You could (and you have
my permission) to burn the manual on a CD-ROM, since it uses the CD-ROM
applet.
>yours
>timp
>
Best regards,
John Leach
','f','',76,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
77,'taylor','taylor Project',877,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/taylor/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/taylor/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11414,'Mon Mar 15 19:38:39 1999','Initial contact',103,0,'Posted on behalf of Marion by TimP
Tries to start a new thread through Chameleon but could not -
Please see the attached dtd and file and let me know if it is sufficiently
good for you to do a conversion and how much it would cost.
You may call the project "taylor"
comment from client.
the file mfunits.sgm is a text file with sgml-compliant
tagging, the dtd is also attached.
There are a few things that I haven\'t done yet - but this will be the
core material. In particular, I have not cross-referenced material -
this is my next task and I haven\'t included a treatment for the
graphics. This isn\'t so hard though.
','f','',77,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11415,'Mon Mar 15 19:42:26 1999','Re: Initial contact',3,11414,'
>Tries to start a new thread through Chameleon but could not -
Yup,
Currently only people with registerd IP addresses can create directories
on Paneris, or modify documents; but you can post messages.
>Please see the attached dtd and file and let me know if it is sufficiently
>good for you to do a conversion
It conforms to the DTD, so it is \'good enough\' but
that says nothing about whether it is any good or not.
>and how much it would cost.
I think that we should be able to get a flatfile out in about
3*8 hours which is 960 gbp
> You may call the project "taylor"
Have done.
>comment from client.
>the file mfunits.sgm is a text file with sgml-compliant
> tagging, the dtd is also attached.
> There are a few things that I haven\'t done yet - but this will be the
> core material. In particular, I have not cross-referenced material -
> this is my next task and I haven\'t included a treatment for the
> graphics. This isn\'t so hard though.
Well we will lok forward to these changes.
I suspect that the devil will be in the details.
yours
timP
','f','',77,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11416,'Tue Mar 16 9:56:39 1999','fff',103,0,'
Can I expect to see the first fraft of this today? Would hope to. Thanks Marion
','f','',77,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11417,'Fri Apr 16 17:04:48 1999','Invoice',3,0,'
Sorry to hear that you didn\'t get the job.
The invoice is at http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/invoice.pl?show-/people/timp/invoices/89.html
yours
timP
','f','',77,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11418,'Tue Apr 20 16:35:09 1999','Re: Invoice',103,11417,'
unable to access invoice -due to abuse???
Marion
Please just attach it to an email
','f','',77,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11419,'Fri Apr 23 10:51:34 1999','Re: Re: Invoice',3,11418,'
Marion,
>unable to access invoice -due to abuse???
>Please just attach it to an email
I would prefer if you could check that you can read them now:
http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/invoice.pl?show-/people/timp/invoices/89.html
as I have changed the checking so that you can look but you can\'t touch.
Thanks in advance
tim
','f','',77,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
78,'DXpress','DXpress Project',878,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/DXpress/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/DXpress/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11420,'Wed Sep 15 22:28:08 1999','DXpress code review',3,0,'
William,
I have created a review page at the <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/context/DXpress/\'>DXpress node</a>.
I don\'t really know how best to go about this, and have not got as far as I should.
I will set you up on the time recording system and create a project to book to.
It is possible to place comments in the files, but I am still working on them, so
that could be dangeous.
I guess that a quick read through is the first step, then we can figure out the next,
and how to document the process.
yours
timP
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11421,'Wed Sep 15 22:28:08 1999','Re: DXpress code review',3,11420,'
Hi Bill,
I have changed the names of the files to
dx_upload.cgi
dx_process_file.pl
StyleSheet.pm
Format.pm
FormatFFF4.pm
and added:
FormatFFF3.pm
FormatHTML.pm
FormatSGML.pm
So tried nifty use conditional on output_type - wrong
So <tt>used</tt> all of the Format.....pm
That is Ok, but bulky.
Then tried:
<code>
if ($main::output_file_format eq \'fff4\')
{
$main::output_file_style = new FormatFFF4;
}
elsif ($main::output_file_format eq \'fff3\')
{
$main::output_file_style = new FormatFFF3;
}
elsif ($main::output_file_format eq \'html\')
{
$main::output_file_style = new FormatHTML;
}
elsif ($main::output_file_format eq \'sgml\')
{
$main::output_file_style = new FormatSGML;
}
else
{
die "No output style specified";
}
</code>
This produced the helpful message
\'Bad name after after bold::\'
Then I started to panic, and write this.
Calmed down, tried to reproduce it, and it
has gone away.
hey ho
Tim
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11422,'Wed Sep 15 22:28:08 1999','File locations',3,0,'
I have kept dx_upload.cgi in cgi-bin, and put everything else into DX,
Tim
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11423,'Wed Sep 15 22:28:08 1999','Re: File locations',3,11422,'
>I have kept dx_upload.cgi in cgi-bin, and put everything else into DX,
This was so as not to have to try to mess about with
@INC;
but I did anyway:
<code>
BEGIN {
if (defined $ENV{\'PERL_INCLUDE\'})
{
unshift @INC, split /;/, $ENV{\'PERL_INCLUDE\'};
}
else
{
unshift @INC, (./DX);
}
}
</code>
Doesn\'t work, the <code>use Format;</code>
fails in FormatFFF4.pm and prints out @INC,
which doesn\'t include \'./DX\'.
So I have used
<code>use DX::Format;</code>
which works and I am happy with using forever,
but, though I have given up hoping for a principled
explanation of anything in Perl I was hoping to
come to a story I could tell myself :)
yours
Tim
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11424,'Wed Sep 15 22:28:08 1999','Re: File locations',3,11423,'
>>I have kept dx_upload.cgi in cgi-bin, and put everything else into DX,
Now I have had to move dx_process_file.pl back up
to cgi-bin.
Tim
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11425,'Wed Sep 15 22:28:08 1999','First results',3,0,'
Bill,
It seems to be working.
I have managed to hack a few bits, like adding a record
tag on style invocation.
Here is a result:
<pre>
<CM> ***********************************************
** Folio Flat File Identifier and Version Info **
*********************************************** </CM>
<VI:Folio,FFF,4.11>
<PA:"Body text"; FT:"Times-Roman">
<PA:"Body bold"; FT:"Times-Roman">
<PA:BodyINDENT; FT:"Times-Roman">
<PA:"Body italic"; FT:"Times-Roman">
<PA:IndentITALIC; FT:"Times-Roman">
<CM> ***********************************************
** Infobase Information **
*********************************************** </CM>
<RD><PS:"Body bold">2.1 The relevant statutory instruments
<RD><PS:"Body text">
Nine Statutory Instruments <BD+>relating<BD> to fees status, <UL+>issued<UL> at different times since 1983, were consolidated into Statutory Instrument 1994 No 3042.
Copies of Statutory Instrument 1994 No 3042 may <IT+>be<IT> obtained from: HMSO Bookshop, 49 High Holborn, London, WC1. Key extracts of the regulations, including those which establish the conditions to be fulfilled for assessment at the lower (home) rate, are included in the text of this section.
</pre>
Lots more to do, but feel a bit more comfy.
I will be in Catalyst tomorrow, so will only have web access,
no FTP or email.
I may phone, if that ok.
yours
Tim
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11426,'Thu Sep 10 15:27:08 1998','Record of telephone conversation',3,0,'
<h2>To change the existing comparison routine to use new mechanism</h2>
<h3>Outputting changes</h3>
This is easy, just pass any changes to existing routines.
<h3>Tracking of state change</h3>
To enable SGML output a stack of inline changes to
the style sheet must be maintained, as tags may not
overlap in SGML.
<h3>PLF/CLF distinction</h3>
<em>Paragraph Level attributes</em> and <em>Character Level Attributes</em>
may both be changed by inline tags.
Many languages (including FFF) support this.
The problem is the <$> symbol in quark is expected to
reset only the CLF charateristics, so we cannot just pop
off any changes to the paragraph style that we have on the stack.
Consequently I will introduce an array (as Class data?)
into the format*.pm files so that:
<code>
if ($invokedstyle->level{$tag} eq \'clf\') {...}
</code>
makes sense.
yours
TimP
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11427,'Thu Sep 10 16:27:34 1998','Hooray, Eureka, AAHHHHH!',3,0,'
Isn\'t it lovely.
love
Tim
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11428,'Fri Sep 11 12:59:25 1998','Record of teleophone conversation',3,0,'
The Value subs in Format.pm return undef if
not set.
What they should really be doing is returning the
default value for this input language.
These defaults should be held in a structure which
contains only the things which can be changed, ie
doesn\'t contain the stylesheet name.
So stylesheet::new should go and be replaced with
a constructor which tacks the name onto the input
languages defaults and puts that lot into the abstract
language\'s structure.
I hope.
TimP
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11429,'Sun Sep 13 2:08:25 1998','Scoping Question',3,0,'
William,
I am getting on well with your code.
I have written my first object, if you don\'t count StyleSheet,
for the Rule as in \'rule_above\' and \'rule_below\'.
I am having a little difficulty with attribOutput:
<code>
sub attribOutput {
my ($self, $attrib, $abstractVal) = @_;
my $tag = undef;
my $attribTag = $attrib . \'Tag\';
eval {
local $SIG<a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?__DIE__\'>__DIE__</a> = \'IGNORE\'; # else will get [CGI::Carp]ed at
$tag = $self->$attribTag();
};
my $output = undef;
if (defined $tag) {
my $val;
my $attribValue = $attrib . \'Value\';
eval {
local $SIG<a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?__DIE__\'>__DIE__</a> = \'IGNORE\'; # else will get [CGI::Carp]ed at
$val = $self->$attribValue($abstractVal);
};
$@ eq \'\' or $val = $abstractVal;
if (defined $val) {
$output = $self->taggedValueOutput($tag, $val);
}
}
else {
my $attribOutput = $attrib . \'Output\';
#HELP How come $val is in scope?
eval {
$output = $self->$attribOutput($val);
};
}
$output;
}
</code>
If $val is scoped within the if block, won\'t it be
undefined in the else block?
yours
TimP
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11430,'Thu Sep 24 2:37:04 1998','Quark Xpress\'s behaviour',3,0,'
Colin,
as you know I don\'t have a copy of Quark,
so cant guess what it does in certain cases.
So I have a quick question for you.
If you have a paragraph style
(is that what they ar called in Quark speak?)
which has bold set in it what happens when you apply
bold?
At a tags level the line would look like this:
@Bold Text:This is a paragraph with <B>bold<B> in it.
It should, by my guess, turn bold off around the word bold,
but I would love it if you could confirm.
The best possible answer would be on the message board
accompanied by uploading a Quark tags file
giving the above text.
yours
TimP
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11431,'Thu Sep 24 13:48:58 1998','Re: Quark Xpress\'s behaviour',32,11430,'Posted on behalf of ColinR by TimP
Hi TimP,
On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 multiboard@paneris.co.uk wrote:
> New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/context/DXpress/messages/11.shtml
>
> Subject: Quark Xpress\'s behaviour
> From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
> Colin,
>
> as you know I don\'t have a copy of Quark,
> so can\'t guess what it does in certain cases.
Indeed.
> So I have a quick question for you.
Pleased to help.
> If you have a paragraph style
> (is that what they ar called in Quark speak?)
> which has bold set in it what happens when you apply
> bold?
I set up a "Style Sheet" called "QuarkSpeak" in QuarkXpress, and applied
it to the paragraph of text "This is a paragraph with bold in it."
I then selected the word "bold" and appled the additional type style
attribute of BOLD manually using the menu item [FILE -> TYPE STYLE ->
BOLD].
> At a tags level the line would look like this:
>
> @Bold Text:This is a paragraph with <B>bold<B> in it.
>
> It should, by my guess, turn bold off around the word bold,
> but I would love it if you could confirm.
The on screen effect was such that the word was altered to the ROMAN CASE.
> The best possible answer would be on the message board
> accompanied by uploading a Quark tags file
> giving the above text.
The resultant TAGS file was as follows:
<v1.70><e0>
@Normal=[S"","Normal"]<*L*h"Standard"*kn0*kt0*ra0*rb0*d0*p(0,0,0,0,0,0,g,"International
English")*t(0,0,"2 "):
Ps100t0h100z12k0b0c"Black"f"Helvetica">
@QuarkSpeak=[S"Normal","QuarkSpeak"]<*L*h"Standard"*kn0*kt0*ra0*rb0*d0*p(0,0,0,0,0,0,g,"International
English")*t(0,0,"2 "):
PBs100t0h100z12k0b0c"Black"f"Helvetica">
@QuarkSpeak:<$>This is a paragraph with some <P>bold<$> in it.
Hope that\'s OK.
Colin
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11432,'Thu Sep 24 13:56:44 1998','Re: Re: Quark Xpress\'s behaviour',3,11431,'
Colin,
>On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 multiboard@paneris.co.uk wrote:
>> If you have a paragraph style
>> (is that what they are called in Quark speak?)
>> which has bold set in it what happens when you apply
>> bold?
>I set up a "Style Sheet" called "QuarkSpeak" in QuarkXpress, and applied
>it to the paragraph of text "This is a paragraph with bold in it."
>I then selected the word "bold" and appled the additional type style
>attribute of BOLD manually using the menu item [FILE -> TYPE STYLE ->
>BOLD].
>> At a tags level the line would look like this:
>>
>> @Bold Text:This is a paragraph with <B>bold<B> in it.
>>
>> It should, by my guess, turn bold off around the word bold,
>> but I would love it if you could confirm.
>The on screen effect was such that the word was altered to the ROMAN CASE.
Not entirely sure that I know what ROMAN CASE means,
it should be Helvetica, but if not then Quark is even more crap than it appears.
>
>
>The resultant TAGS file was as follows:
>
><v1.70><e0>
>@Normal=[S"","Normal"]<*L*h"Standard"*kn0*kt0*ra0*rb0*d0*p(0,0,0,0,0,0,g,"International English")*t(0,0,"2 "):Ps100t0h100z12k0b0c"Black"f"Helvetica">
>@QuarkSpeak=[S"Normal","QuarkSpeak"]<*L*h"Standard"*kn0*kt0*ra0*rb0*d0*p(0,0,0,0,0,0,g,"International English")*t(0,0,"2 "):
>PBs100t0h100z12k0b0c"Black"f"Helvetica">
>@QuarkSpeak:<$>This is a paragraph with some <P>bold<$> in it.
>Hope that\'s OK.
Wow, that was not waht I expected.
As you see it has applied <P>, when it should have applied <B>.
<P> means \'set back to plain\', which in turn means \'use the default stylesheet font\'
which is defined as Helvetica.
If you are getting Times-Roman then that is hard coded inside Quark: very bad.
I would be interested to know whether there are any circumstances under which deleting the
first <$> makes a difference.
I will let you know when the software is online for <em>Beta Bashing</a>.
yours
TimP
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11433,'Thu Oct 1 13:51:53 1998','Strange quark tag',3,0,'
Colin,
I am getting quite a few occurances of <?b>,
can you tell me what it means?
yours
timP
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11434,'Tue Oct 13 18:27:46 1998','Dealing with Small Caps tag',3,0,'
Will,
The small Caps tag is a little bit tricky.
As the name suggests, text between a tag
and a dollar, end of line or second small
caps tag is capitalised, and presumably has the font size reduced.
At the moment I don\'t have any way of
altering the text between two tags.
I thought that a simple way to do it might be
to insert @@sc@@ @@/sc@@ at start and end,
then do a second substitution on the
whole line before outputting it.
Am I missing anything?
yours
timP
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11435,'Wed Oct 14 17:14:37 1998','Micro payments',3,0,'
All,
I want to charge people to use my quark Xpress
converter, say maybe 10c a go.
My first thoughts (not mutually exclusive):
1. 10 free goes
2. After 10 goes for an IP/cookie identified user
ask for:
a) Micro-payment id (e-cash?)
b) Ask for account payment, via visa, of $5 for 50 goes
Any suggestions?
yours
timP
(30,000 hits a day = $3000, which would be nice :)
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11436,'Thu Oct 15 10:36:24 1998','Re: Micro payments',1,11435,'
>All,
>I want to charge people to use my quark Xpress
>converter, say maybe 10c a go.
>My first thoughts (not mutually exclusive):
>1. 10 free goes
>2. After 10 goes for an IP/cookie identified user
> ask for:
> a) Micro-payment id (e-cash?)
> b) Ask for account payment, via visa, of $5 for 50 goes
I think you are best off sticking to credit cards, e-cash doen\'t seem to be happening yet. you got any?
I would put the price a little higher (perhaps $1 per shot), and bill customers per 10 goes, but you\'re not going to know until you start.
The traditional business model for this sort of thing is:
give it away and make the money from the spin-off consultancy. Personally I would go in this direction.
>
>Any suggestions?
>yours
>timP
>(30,000 hits a day = $3000, which would be nice :)
:) Remembr how much I was going to make selling mortgages
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11437,'Tue Dec 15 16:23:39 1998','Payment',3,0,'
Will,
I have been payed for this ! :)
I was payed 2500gbp.
I originally asked you for a one day review,
but you actually wrote all of the algorithm, so
I feel pretty indebted.
Did you keep any record of how long you worked on it?
Would you be interested in actually reviewing it, for additional
money?
yours
TimP
','f','',78,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
79,'acm','acm Project',879,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/acm/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/acm/',9);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11438,'Wed Sep 15 22:26:47 1999','QXpress 2 SGML',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Gerald Murray by TimP
Hi Tim,
Searching the WEB (via altavista) and came across
your page.
Very interested in your Quark Xpress to SGML OMNIMARK
converter and would appreciate some info. Most of our Quark
material consists of articles for magazines so is not, what you would
call, really arduous.
In any even, hope to hear from you.
Regards,
Gerry Murray
murray@acm.org
','f','',79,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11439,'Wed Sep 15 22:26:47 1999','Re: QXpress 2 SGML',3,11438,'Posted on behalf of Gerald Murray by TimP
Hi Tim,
Good 2 hear from you.
OK, let me touch base with the \'suits\' to see what they want to do.
Gerry
----------
From: Tim Pizey
To: murray
Subject: Re: QXpress 2 SGML
Date: Thursday, August 21, 1997 8:56PM
Gerry,
At 11:50 13/08/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Tim,
> Searching the WEB (via altavista) and came across
>your page.
> Very interested in your Quark Xpress to SGML OMNIMARK
>converter and would appreciate some info. Most of our Quark
>material consists of articles for magazines so is not, what you would
>call, really arduous.
> In any even, hope to hear from you.
>
The Xpress converter is written in C, at the moment, not Omnimark,
however there are plans to port it to Perl5.
How do you wish to proceed?
I can offer a \'bureau\' service where I convert your material to SGML, or
you could buy a licence for the software (gbp 1000), which could be
delivered to you by mid October.
You could send me an example, either way, to test that the converter works
on your version of Quark.
yours
Tim Pizey
Context Computing
','f','',79,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11440,'Wed Sep 15 22:26:47 1999','Re: QXpress 2 SGML',3,11439,'Posted on behalf of Gerald Murray by TimP
Hi Tim,
Have been given the \'official\' go-ahead, so to speak.
I have two ZIP disks containing an issue of the magazine
"Interactions" produced on our MAC via Quark.
I *presume* you\'ll need a copy of our DTD (it\'s copyrighted
but I can let it \'out\' for "test purposes").
In any event, if there\'s something additional/specific that
you need (in addition to the above) please let me know.
I would like your snail-mail address (and ph. no.) so that I
can send the \'package\'.
TIA,
Gerry
----------
From: Bernard Rous
To: Gerald Murray
Subject: RE: QXpress 2 SGML
Date: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 1:38AM
Certainly worth folow-up.
-Bernie
-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Murray
Sent: Monday, August 25, 1997 10:18 AM
To: Bernard Rous
Cc: Mark Mandelbaum
Subject: FW: QXpress 2 SGML
Bernie,
Will send some sample files (CACM and INT), with a copy of
our DTD (with magazine
fragment) and check the results.
(?)
Gerry
----------
From: Tim Pizey
To: murray
Subject: Re: QXpress 2 SGML
Date: Thursday, August 21, 1997 8:56PM
Gerry,
At 11:50 13/08/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Tim,
> Searching the WEB (via altavista) and came across
>your page.
> Very interested in your Quark Xpress to SGML OMNIMARK
>converter and would appreciate some info. Most of our Quark
>material consists of articles for magazines so is not, what you would
>call, really arduous.
> In any even, hope to hear from you.
>
The Xpress converter is written in C, at the moment, not Omnimark,
however there are plans to port it to Perl5.
How do you wish to proceed?
I can offer a \'bureau\' service where I convert your material to SGML, or
you could buy a licence for the software (gbp 1000), which could be
delivered to you by mid October.
You could send me an example, either way, to test that the converter works
on your version of Quark.
yours
Tim Pizey
Context Computing
','f','',79,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11441,'Wed Sep 15 22:26:47 1999','Re: QXpress 2 SGML',3,11440,'
Gerald,
At 11:03 03/09/97 PDT, Gerald Murray wrote:
>
>Hi Tim,
>
> Have been given the \'official\' go-ahead, so to speak.
What do you expect exactly?
What timescales?
What output format - Currently outputting to Rainbow DTD
How much money:)
I think I offered to do a test for free, but this will have to be to
the existing dtd, and files will have to be sent in a format I can easily deal with.
> I have two ZIP disks containing an issue of the magazine
>"Interactions" produced on our MAC via Quark.
Is it possible to send the data on PC formatted Zip disks?
>
> I *presume* you\'ll need a copy of our DTD (it\'s copyrighted
>but I can let it \'out\' for "test purposes").
Yes.
>
> In any event, if there\'s something additional/specific that
>you need (in addition to the above) please let me know.
>
I cannot open normal quark files, as they would be on your zip disk,
as they are in a proprietory quark file format,
you have, I am afraid, to export each Quark frame to Quark Xpress Tags format.
In addition I work on a PC and so cannot access Apple format Zip disks.
By sending the files by email you should avoid any Mac/PC incompatibilities.
(don\'t attach the files: have them in the body of the message)
> I would like your snail-mail address (and ph. no.) so that I
>can send the \'package\'.
>
See http://www.paneris.co.uk/ but dont send the whole disk, as I don\'t think
we have got to that stage yet.
>
>
I think the way to do this would be:
You export a few documents to Quark Xpress Tags format.
Email them and your DTD to me.
I will test the converter against them, modify the converter if neccessary
to cope with them.
Send you the results.
You decide whether you wish to convert from my DTD to yours yourselves or whether you wish me to write a converter.
I will record my hours spent on this pre-sales activity.
At this point you can decide how you wish to proceed:
Buy a license for the software: 1000gbp
Comission a converter: 400gbp per day (1-3 days)
Bureau service : 250gbp per day (1-2 days)
Pay per use web page : 3gbp per use
In addition to the above charges you will pay for the presales work recorded earlier at my day rate (400gbp per day).
I would like to establish a web page for the project at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/context/archive/acm/
This web site will be used to record all costs, communications and potentailly your pay-per-use
access to the software.
Hope this makes sense to you.
Please also give me much more infomation about yourselves:
Where are you on the web?
Where in the world?
What is your magazine about?
yours
Tim Pizey
Context Computing
','f','',79,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11442,'Wed Sep 15 22:26:47 1999','Re: QXpress 2 SGML',3,11441,'
Murray,
I have not heard from you for a while.
Did the project conclude successfully?
I am embarking on a revamp of the Quark to SGML
converter in the near future, if you still have
a requirement.
yours
Tim Pizey
Context Computing
','f','',79,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
80,'catis','catis Project',880,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/catis/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/catis/',9);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11443,'Wed Sep 15 22:22:14 1999','Web Services ',3,0,'
Nick,
To follow up our telephone conversation, I am a member of
the HOOP collective of web workers.
We would be happy to offer any help with your online presence
or intranet.
We have very high standards of both graphic design and back
end processing.
Our reference sites can be seen at http://www.hoop.co.uk/
Your entry on our office system can be seen at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/context/archive/catis/ .
Please feel free to modify your entry.
yours
Tim Pizey
Context Computing
','f','',80,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
81,'consortia','consortia Project',881,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/consortia/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/consortia/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11444,'Mon May 31 18:36:53 1999','my home number is 439610',3,0,'
tim
Basically this is a design agency commissioning a site for Nokia, Ericcson,
Motorola for members of the forum, content providers and operators. They
are promoting web technology via the mobile - information entertainment etc.
It a HTML site with a home page, introduction and general information. They
want their users to be able to download pdf files featuring licensing
agreements, usage guidelines, and technical details but before they can do
that they have to register their name, company name, position,email address
which
must be stored in a text file.
As this has got to be done and incorporated into the site by next Tuesday,
I think the easiest solutions must be the best.
It would be good if you could register as a first time user and get a
username and password and use this again when you enter that section of the
site but as far as lost passwords are concerned - that\'ll have to be in
phase 2.
also check box that is set checked but can be unchecked for a \'keep me
updated\' to be positioned on the registration form.
am waiting for
- host route or path
- user name
- password
<<site plan.doc>>
Salimullah Kahlon
Interface design
eclipsis.com
68 Milton Park
Abingdon, OX14 4RX, UK
Company number 3610219
T +44 (0) 1235 864 004
F +44 (0) 1235 862 950
M 0468 286026
E mailto:salim.kahlon@eclipsis.com
w http://www.eclipsis.com
The information in this message is confidential and may be legally
privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this
message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended
recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or
omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
Any attachment(s) to this message has been checked for viruses, but please
rely on your own virus checker and procedures.
Attachment Converted: "d:\eudora\attach\site plan.doc"
','f','',81,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11445,'Mon May 31 21:05:39 1999','Finished',3,0,'
Salim,
Finished, hopefully in time.
The invoice is on the site, for 300gbp as agreed.
To make it work for you:
1. copy login.html
2. Make it look as you like, but maintain form action.
3. Tell me the destination url and any alteration to the thankyou text.
yours
timP
','f','',81,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11446,'Mon May 31 21:06:23 1999','Finished',3,0,'
Salim,
Finished, hopefully in time.
The invoice is on the site, for 300gbp as agreed.
To make it work for you:
1. copy login.html
2. Make it look as you like, but maintain form action.
3. Tell me the destination url and any alteration to the thankyou text.
yours
timP
','f','',81,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11447,'Mon May 31 21:27:10 1999','Re: Finished',3,11445,'
Salim,
Have added contact me check field as per our phonecall.
yours
timP
','f','',81,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11448,'Tue Jun 1 11:10:58 1999','consortia script',3,0,'
hi tim
thanx for putting the checkbox in
question
what does the last elemnts of the script - link_array_perl file
links_hash.pl do ?
also
i will have to remove your and mine contact commenst from the scripts
because the agency commisioning the work wants all the credits - sorry
have a good evening
salim
W http://www.oxfordintelligence.org
E salim@oxfordintelligence.org
T +44 (0)1865 439610 landline
M +44 (0) 7957 653 416 mobile
154 Old Road
Oxford
OX3 8SY
The information in this message is confidential and may be legally
privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this
message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended
recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or
omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
Any attachment(s) to this message has been checked for viruses, but please
rely on your own virus checker and procedures.
','f','',81,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11449,'Tue Jun 1 11:16:55 1999','Re: consortia script',3,11448,'
>hi tim
>thanx for putting the checkbox in
no probs
>question
> what does the last elemnts of the script - link_array_perl file
>links_hash.pl do ?
That is beyond the __END__
it can be deleted.
>also
>i will have to remove your and mine contact commenst from the scripts
>because the agency commisioning the work wants all the credits - sorry
Not sure I can accept that.
It certainly is something which should have been mentioned in the terms and conditions.
\'My work is my advertisment\' sounds a bit poncy, but it is.
Also the author/contact details are an inherent part of
our quality procedure.
It is also an inherent part of what I understand by the
nature of the web.
I would go as far as to say you may do what you like with the script except
remove my name and email address.
If the agency have a problem with this they could contact me,
but I suggest that you just leave it in and see what they do.
yours
TimP
>have a good evening
>salim
>W http://www.oxfordintelligence.org
>E salim@oxfordintelligence.org
>T +44 (0)1865 439610 landline
>M +44 (0) 7957 653 416 mobile
>154 Old Road
>Oxford
>OX3 8SY
>The information in this message is confidential and may be legally
>privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this
>message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended
>recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or
>omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
>Any attachment(s) to this message has been checked for viruses, but please
>rely on your own virus checker and procedures.
','f','',81,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11450,'Tue Jun 1 11:51:50 1999','Re: Re: consortia script',3,11449,'Posted on behalf of Salim by TimP
tim
i haven\'t got the server address yet, should be here soon other wise i may
just stick the site on any unix box, at the mo the oxfordintel.co.uk web is
not functioning.
also didnt realise you felt so strongly about contact details
i\'ll see what can be done
Salimullah Kahlon
Interface design
eclipsis.com
68 Milton Park
Abingdon, OX14 4RX, UK
Company number 3610219
','f','',81,0,0);
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82,'context','context Interface',882,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/context/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/context/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11451,'Thu Sep 24 2:31:01 1998','Context Computing Apologia',3,0,'
Hi,
For any of you who have had to listen to the interminable
rant about how and why <a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk>Paneris</a>
is designed the way it is, you can now read <a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/context/apologia.shtml>it</a> as well.
love
tim
','f','',82,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11452,'Tue Nov 17 17:53:24 1998','Re: Context Computing Apologia',3,11451,'
>Hi,
>For any of you who have had to listen to the interminable
>rant about how and why <a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk>Paneris</a>
>is designed the way it is, you can now read <a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/context/apologia.shtml>it</a> as well.
>love
>tim
Not one reply, nor any comment.
I have just re-read this apologia and feel that at least you guys should read it,
as I found myself re-saying it, less well, at the AGM.
yours
TimP
','f','',82,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11453,'Tue Nov 17 19:57:20 1998','Re: Re: Context Computing Apologia',1,11452,'
>The site functionality (the scripts) should be available so that anyone with a problem can diagnose and report it
On panerisII we will allow READ access to all of the site via CVS
>Anyone with web connectivity and webspace or diskspace can copy the site.
Umm, this is perhaps wishful thinking. But I would suggest that if we properly document our scripts and libs, it will be far more useful as bits for other people than the entire site
>The site should be browser independant and quick.
agreed.
>The site should contain all its pervious versions.
agreed.
>The colour choices on the site should be configurable.
"I do not have any great colour sense and the first few attempts I made at colouring the site were greatly displeasing to some"
We will get a pro in, and get it right, it then will always be pleasing for everyone, without the restrictions of a fully configurable system.
>The site should be maintainable online, with nothing more >than a web-browser.
I like this, and would like to see it implemented in PnaerisII.
TimJ
','f','',82,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11454,'Wed Nov 18 14:46:52 1998','Re: Re: Re: Context Computing Apologia',2,11453,'
>>The site functionality (the scripts) should be available so that anyone with a problem can diagnose and report it
>On panerisII we will allow READ access to all of the site via CVS
... and then you can log a bug report if you find one. I\'d prefer
that to commenting the scripts
>>Anyone with web connectivity and webspace or diskspace can copy the site.
>Umm, this is perhaps wishful thinking. But I would suggest that if we properly document our scripts and libs, it will be far more useful as bits for other people than the entire site
And anyone who wants to install Paneris needs to install Perl
first. This moves Paneris out of the "beginners web site" category
and leads me to think that most use of Paneris would be made by nicking
modules rather than the whole thing.
>>The site should be browser independant and quick.
>agreed.
agreed.
>>The site should contain all its pervious versions.
>agreed.
agreed.
>>The colour choices on the site should be configurable.
>"I do not have any great colour sense and the first few attempts I made at colouring the site were greatly displeasing to some"
>We will get a pro in, and get it right, it then will always be pleasing for everyone, without the restrictions of a fully configurable system.
I agree that we need to get the whole look right, rather than just
colours. There is no problem in altering the templates for each
view, but what about common pages such as each subject.shtml? I
think we should pick a default view, design it and then ensure
each static page fits with that look. This is not just an office
system, this is our presence on the web and we can\'t afford (as
web development professionals) to have a poor looking site.
>>The site should be maintainable online, with nothing more >than a web-browser.
>I like this, and would like to see it implemented in PnaerisII.
I would like to see this for (HTML) files and templates, but not code.
>TimJ
Myles
','f','',82,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11455,'Thu Jan 14 22:00:29 1999','Adas website revamp',3,0,'
Jim,
Thankyou for thinking of Context Computing with regard to the
revamp of the <a href=\'http://www.adas.co.uk/\'>ADAS site</a>.
As a core member of the <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/\'>Paneris Comunity</a>
Context Computing is able to offer a full range of web programming services.
If you want a face lift then we have a very strong team of
graphics designers eg <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/colinr/\'>Colin</a> and
<a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/danielh/\'>Daniel</a> amongst <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/\'>others</a>.
If you want to manage your site using SGML then I should be able to help :)
If you want to have client-side java applets, Server-side java servlets,
normal cgi functionality or databases conected to the web then we can do it.
Our most recent collaborative venture was for a holiday company called
<a href=\'http://www.iglu.com\'>Iglu</a>, for which we recieved 5 stars both in
the Financial Times and Netprofit magazine.
Another flagship site is <a href=\'http://www.bloomsbury.com/\'>Bloomsbury Publishers</a>.
Work done by other individuals is on their <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/\'>personal pages</a>.
As you can imagine, as a web cooperative (or as we say collabrative)
we have to be very strict about poaching people (see <a href=\'/rules.shtml\'>here</a>)
and we have had to put some thought into how to equitably distibute
money from a project with those who have contributed to it.
Our current thinking on this is given <a href=\'/philosophy/money.shtml\'>here</a>.
I hope that we can help.
yours
Tim Pizey
Context Computing
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/context/
tim@paneris.co.uk
01865 721131
','f','',82,0,0);
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83,'radcliffe','radcliffe Project',883,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/radcliffe/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/radcliffe/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11456,'Fri Apr 23 13:30:03 1999','Hello',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Raphael by TimP
Hiya,
I talked to Peter a couple of weeks ago about a database (access) which we
need ported to a web site? Would you be able to contact me about that?
0467768665
Cheers,
Raphael
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11457,'Fri Apr 23 13:31:21 1999','Re: Hello',3,11456,'
Raphael,
At 03:44 10/04/99 +0100, you wrote:
>Hiya,
>
>I talked to Peter a couple of weeks ago about a database (access) which we
>need ported to a web site? Would you be able to contact me about that?
>0467768665
Certainly,
If you can send me the db that would probably be a good point to start.
yours
timP
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11458,'Fri Apr 23 13:32:13 1999','DB to web',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Jo by TimP
Ray has asked me to send you a copy of the DB so you could offer your
advice on how you would go about providing lookup via web interface.
I have got some way to providing this only it is my first project of
this kind and all the tools are somewhat new to me.
I can display the table in the web page with all the books.
The next bit is the tricky bit.
Realistically they want to be able to select an author and see a list of
books by that author, or select a book and see more details on that
book. Also the possibility, to select an author and then have a list of
co-authors displayed.
It would be nice for them to be able to click on the table, however I
don\'t know if this is possible. I think the table is a one way
communication device and there are no commands for retrieving data from
it that the user may have selected and then feeding thm back to the
server ?.
I get the impression that I would need to have a text box which the user
could enter for instance the db-unique number and then select a check
box , authors books, book details or co authors and then a send button.
This info is gatherred and dependant on slection a new page is
generated. Does this sound right or am I barking up the wrong tree.
I am using Vis Interdev 6.0, asp and vbscript. Do you use these tools,
if so it would be usefull to spend some time possibly to iron out the
problems and strategy for providing a solution.
Anyway the DB is attached.
Jo
--
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
\_ Jo Cox. Software Engineer \_
\_ Oxford Brookes University \_
\_ jcox@brookes.ac.uk \_
\_ Tel UK: (0) 1865:483305 \_
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Attachment Converted: "d:\eudora\attach\RMP-bookdatabaseasof160299.mdb"
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11459,'Fri Apr 23 21:10:34 1999','Re: DB to web',3,11458,'
Hi Ray/Jo,
>Ray has asked me to send you a copy of the DB so you could offer your
>advice on how you would go about providing lookup via web interface.
>I have got some way to providing this only it is my first project of
>this kind and all the tools are somewhat new to me.
We are doing trials of our own java based mechanism now.
>I can display the table in the web page with all the books.
>The next bit is the tricky bit.
>Realistically they want to be able to select an author and see a list of
>books by that author, or select a book and see more details on that
>book. Also the possibility, to select an author and then have a list of
>co-authors displayed.
No problem.
>I am using Vis Interdev 6.0, asp and vbscript. Do you use these tools,
>if so it would be usefull to spend some time possibly to iron out the
>problems and strategy for providing a solution.
I would recommend doing it the way we do :)
>Anyway the DB is attached.
Thanks,
I put this on the web as is, but then decided to modify it.
If you look at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/context/radcliffe/
you will find a link to the demonstration.
There is quite a lot of fundamental design work to do,
for example adding a separate author table.
If co-authorship is required then we have to put together
a one to many lookup.
Let me know if you want to chat or me to do more work.
Please use the messageboard on the site rather than straight email, as this keeps all
project communications in one place.
yours
Tim Pizey
01865 721131
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11460,'Tue Apr 27 1:52:21 1999','RE: Hello',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Raphael by TimP
Hello...Sorry for taking so long to get back to you..I went to the website and checked it out..so is it a template for what you could do? How do they access the data?
Thanks,
Raphael
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11461,'Tue Apr 27 2:01:46 1999','Re: RE: Hello',3,11460,'
>Hello...Sorry for taking so long to get back to you..
>I went to the website and checked it out..
>so is it a template for what you could do?
>How do they access the data?
Well,
I don\'t know how far you got.
What I did was:
Export a description of your db from Access to Postgres/Paneri Datadictionary
as a means of testing my export program.
I then decided to modify your data definition, to make it
a little more workable. I did this by hand in sql, but
would reimplement in Access if we were to go much further.
I have had a little experiance with academic publishing and so realised that you are
trying to represent the relationship between academic authors and books ( a thorny issue :)
So it looks to me as though one needs to go further and split the authors into a separate table,
thus enabling author searches, representing reality more closely and
making the programming task lots more difficlt :)
What are you trying to do?
What contribution can I make?
How much money is available?
What are the timescales?
Is there any existing data?
yours
TimP
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11462,'Mon May 10 12:44:55 1999','Re: Re: RE: Hello',3,11461,'
Hiya Tim,
Thank you very much for your timely help.
What we are trying to do at this time is to create 200 web pages which will be linked to the database. The database should have a listing of all the authors, ISBN, price and type of category of book. Call me ASAP and we can discuss more in detail.
There is a considerable amount of money for this, but not unlimited. I am not sure of the exact amount yet.
We have an existing database but it is not in the best format.
Basically I need you to create the database which will be linked to the webpages which are being written in house.
This needs to be done ASAP( of course)
Could you call me on 0467768665 as soon as you get this?
Cheers,
Raphael
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11463,'Mon May 10 21:24:34 1999','Hiya',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Raphael by TimP
Hiya Tim,
Thanks very much for your help today. I feel very bad that it looks like we will not be able to do any business at this time. I feel that I have mucked you around. If you would let me know your address I will pay you for a couple hours of your time.
When you said that it seems that this project is not very well run you are correct. I am caught in a difficult position with a headstrong client who wants things done their way, even if it is technically wrong. I assure you this is not the way I would do things normally..The other problem is that I do not know databases, I know networks. Anyway I like your approach to these things and I will definitely keep you in mind for future work and will recommend you to other clients.
Please let me know your address...
Cheers,
Raphael
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11464,'Mon May 10 21:30:31 1999','Re: Hiya',3,11463,'
>Thanks very much for your help today.
No problem.
>I feel very bad that it looks like we will not be able to do any business at this time.
>I feel that I have mucked you around.
>If you would let me know your address I will pay you for a couple hours of your time.
OK, I don\'t feel that you have any obligation to do this, but money is money.
I can\'t accept it without I write an invoice, so can I have your address?
Two hours amounts to 80gbp.
>When you said that it seems that this project is not very well run you are correct.
>I am caught in a difficult position with a headstrong client who wants things done their way,
>even if it is technically wrong.
But unless they have a technically viable solution they can rant all they want :)
I would be interested to know what you have settled on,
as I felt that they had contradictory requirements.
yours
Tim P
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11465,'Tue Jun 1 12:43:58 1999','Re: Re: Hiya',3,11464,'Posted on behalf of Raphael by TimP
Great, my address is 353 cowley rd, oxford..ox4 2bp
They will have a database with separate web pages for each book.
By the way, I am having a problem getting templates to work in Front page, do you have any experience with that??
Raphael
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11466,'Tue Jun 1 12:48:17 1999','Re: Re: Re: Hiya',3,11465,'
Hi Raphael,
sorry for the delay.
The invoice and project report are on the site,
(http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/context/radcliffe/).
The URL for the invoice is http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/invoice.pl?show-/people/timp/invoices/93.html
>Great, my address is 353 cowley rd, oxford..ox4 2bp
I have added you as a partner, but didn\'t know your trading name,
so have just called you raphael.
>They will have a database with separate web pages for each book.
How is that coming along?
Have a look at http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/PFELogin
which you can play with, for a demonstration of DB to web connection.
>By the way, I am having a problem getting templates to work in Front page, do you have any experience with that??
No idea, but the free products are better :)
yours
timP
','f','',83,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
84,'datatext','datatext Interface',884,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/datatext/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/datatext/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11467,'Wed Mar 3 6:42:48 1999','search engines',1,0,'
Chippy/Tim,
Here is a query from Antony Freeman (Chippy has set up his box in the past). Please can you research and recommend options to me and him.
I have been reasonably impressed by http://www.htdig.org/ in the past and it\'s copylefted
timj
>Have you ever installed Excite (or any other search engine), on a
>Linux machine?
>
>I run a site http://www.bibliomania.com. For some years I used WebGlimpse
>which actually is quite good but a pig to maintain. I went over to
>Swish - not very happy with it really, though it\'s easy to use. I once
>tried to install Excite but failed :(
>
>Two good things about WebGlimpse were:
>
>1) It displayed some context with the search results.
>2) You could opt to jump to the first hit - people liked that.
>
>Is this something you know anything about?
>
>--
>Regards
>Antony
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Antony Freeman
>Data Text Publishing Ltd
>E-mail: antony@datatext.co.uk
>www: http://www.datatext.co.uk
>
>Data Capture, Electronic Publishing, Internet Services
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>+44 (0)1892 861222
>+44 (0)385 755226
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11468,'Mon Mar 22 12:18:29 1999','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11469,'Mon Mar 22 12:28:52 1999','our hosting problems solved',1,0,'
All,
We have solved our ISP problems!
Datatext have the maytech server (www.maytech.net) housed in MAE-East (with www.above.net). You can\'t ask for quicker connectivity.
Anyway, for low bandwidth sites, Antony is charging £500pa (£43 per month) per site, including jserve/webmacro and postgres db connectivity.
As we (chippy) has set up the box, this could not be a better solution.
I think we can build an excellent relationship with Antony. Please call him for specific quotes (dns, email, statistics etc). I feel it is worth hosting all our sites with him (irrespective of requirements for db connectivity)
timj
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11470,'Mon Mar 22 13:43:17 1999','Re: our hosting problems solved',52,11469,'Posted on behalf of Anthony by TimP
Hi Tim et al.
www.maytech.net is rented from AboveNet who are one of the major US
backbone providers (http://www.above.net). It\'s located in Tysons
Corner Washington DC - same building as Mae East. This facility has
MASSIVE connectivity, 24 hour engineering support, etc, etc, see
below.
Power : 1 Main and 4 Backup systems
Main : Clean Power from Utility
Backup : (Dirty) Utility power from Building\'s supply
UPS : Dual 2-hour reserve UPS systems with zero transfer time
Generator : Deisel Generator with 24 hour fuel tank
Network : Dual OC-12 Network (1.2 Gbps) with connections in
San Jose, CA - Tyson\'s Cornet, VA - New York, NY -
Chicago, IL - Los Angeles, CA - San Fransisco, CA -
Pennsauken, NJ, as well as several private connections to
Netscape, Microsoft, AOL, etc... All routers are Cisco 75xx
running in tandem.
HVAC : System designed to handle a load twice the size with 6
separate systems so that a single failure won\'t affect
anything
FIRE : FM-200 fire suppression system - gas discharge system
which is non-harmful to humans as well as safe for
electronic equipment.
Security : Card Access system with Camera security and Sign
in/out
Maytech can provide, Domain Registration, DNS, Mail Hosting, Virtual
Sites, etc. We also have (on another server (NT, yuk)) SSL, if you
want to do any e-commerce sites.
In short I can do all the usual ISP/Web Hosting stuff except access.
I also have a LINUX box in the UK on a 2Mb line
Antony
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11471,'Tue Mar 30 19:35:43 1999','New webmacro project',3,0,'
Anthony,
hi,
I am putting together a spec for a freight forwarder.
They currently have a domain name but no website.
We would like to offer two options:
1. Register domain name with you;
getting email, website and all normal services but
especially
Jserv, webmacro, postgres
2. Keep current domain name but use
JServ, webmacro and postgres on a virtual server on
one of your machines.
The reason they may not wish to re-register will be
because they do not want to have to reconfigure all their
email clients. (Is there an easy way?)
Could you give me a cost estimate for these two options.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11472,'Wed Mar 31 11:38:05 1999','pricing',1,0,'
Antony,
In the proposals i am writing, for convenience, I am pricing hosting at £500pa, is this ok? (£43pm * 12 = £516).
timj
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11473,'Wed Mar 31 12:08:34 1999','Re: New webmacro project',52,11471,'Posted on behalf of Anthony by TimP
You say they have a domain and are currently using it for e-mail.
I think you\'re asking whether the domain should be transferred to us
or remain with the current ISP who is providing e-mail services.
If that\'s the question, then the answer is: it doesn\'t matter to
us in the least.
There are three possible scenarios:
1) Domain and e-mails stays with current ISP. We ask them to point
the DNS record for www.theirname.com at an IP on our server. In this
case we only provide them with Web Hosting service.
2) The domain is transferred to us and we provide them with DNS, mail,
and Web hosting.
3) The domain is transferred to us but we provide only DNS and Web
hosting, mail stays with the current ISP. We set the MX records to
point at their mail server. This is the least favoured option.
The price is the same:
Pounds 43 per month, which includes Virtual site (50 Mb), DNS if
reqd., and 10 mailboxes. Add pounds 10 per 20 mailboxes thereafter.
Please call or mail if you need further details.
Antony
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11474,'Wed Mar 31 12:09:56 1999','Re: pricing',52,11472,'Posted on behalf of Anthony by TimP
>Antony,
>In the proposals i am writing, for convenience, I am pricing hosting at £500pa, is this ok? (£43pm * 12 = £516).
>timj
£500 p/a is fine - I normally like them to pay quarterly in advance, but can
be flexible if it\'s an issue.
A.
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11475,'Wed Mar 31 12:39:04 1999','Conference CDs',3,0,'
Marion and Anthony,
By way of introducing you to each other:
Anthony is a Paneris Partner and has a node at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/datatext/
Marion is a Paneris Partner and has a node at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/chameleon/
Respective contact details are on the appropriate pages.
Chameleon specialises in Conference Procedings,
though primarily uses Folio Views as the hypertext medium.
Should this introduction come to anything then I suggest that the 10% \'Finders Fee\' go into the Paneris Fund.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11476,'Wed Mar 31 14:20:24 1999','Re: Re: New webmacro project',102,11473,'
OK chaps, subsequent to my meeting this morning, the client
has given the green light for both the web site and the
PFETrack project (they like PFETrack, so they have decided
to keep it - in fact they talked of copyrighting it). I have
the client\'s signature on the Requirement Spec (although I
have authority to amend this in line with our discussions
this morning, and so too the price, if appropriate and
reasonable). I wish to discuss the amendments with the
relevant partners as soon as possible so that we can get the
project under way.
In line with my recommendations, the client has decided to
host the entire website on a fast US-based server, and with
a new domain name, so obviating the need to involve their
current ISP in any way.
Please set up the required JServe configured server at
Maytech with the domain name \'www.pfeweb.com\' (which was
available at 11.00 am today). The client is to be billed
directly. I have informed him that costs are in the region
of UKP45/month. Please advise as to the DNR cost. Billing
is to sent here:
===================
Adam Ward
PFE Express Limited
Athroll House
65a Duke Street
Chelmsford
Essex CM1 1LW
United Kingdom
===================
Regards
Frank
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11477,'Wed Mar 31 19:41:10 1999','Re: Conference CDs',1,11475,'
All,
>Should this introduction come to anything then I suggest that the 10% \'Finders Fee\' go into the Paneris Fund.
umm, i\'m not so sure about this. It strikes me that Datatext (being a paneris partner that has found work for another paneris partner) should get any sales commission that may be payable.
However, it really isn\'t up to paneris to dictate how 2 independant companies arrange their business. All we can really do is encourage you to be open about your dealings, and (if possible) use that paneris system to document the project.
If you would like to contribute to the \'paneris fund\' (http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/money.shtml) - it really is a good cause), feel free.
timj
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11478,'Tue Apr 6 15:01:39 1999','Re: Re: Re: New webmacro project',52,11476,'Posted on behalf of Anthony by TimP
Hello Tim
As per our telephone conversation this is set up and working.
I think you now have all the details you need to work on the site
but please do contact me if I can be of any assistance.
Antony
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11479,'Tue Apr 6 15:10:38 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: New webmacro project',3,11478,'
Anthony,
Thankyou for you prompt service.
As per Frank\'s previous message please invoice:
===================
Adam Ward
PFE Express Limited
Athroll House
65a Duke Street
Chelmsford
Essex CM1 1LW
United Kingdom
===================
You might wish to talk to Frank (info@airflow.net) on
01245 352 908.
The end customer sees this as an Airflow project, hence references to Hoop
or Paneris will not mean anything to him.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11480,'Thu Apr 8 13:37:10 1999','cheque',1,0,'
Antony, Thanks for the cheque.
Chippy, I have now been paid, so please invoice me.
timj
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11481,'Fri Apr 9 15:35:44 1999','Re: cheque',1,11480,'
>Antony, Thanks for the cheque.
>Chippy, I have now been paid, so please invoice me.
>timj
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11482,'Fri Apr 9 15:41:22 1999','finsbury',1,0,'
Antony,
Please can you invoice £500 to
Finsbury Ltd
52-58 Tabernacle St
London
EC2A 4NJ
for a virtual server on maytech for one year. Please see http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/hoop/finsbury/index.html for further contact information if you need it. Or give me a shout.
thanks
timj
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11483,'Mon Apr 12 15:28:04 1999','Re: Re: cheque',2,11481,'
>>Antony, Thanks for the cheque.
>>Chippy, I have now been paid, so please invoice me.
>>timj
Tim,
Thanks. My invoice is at
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/pm/cgi-bin/pm_edit_invoices.pl?table=invoices&id=210&partners_name_invoicefrom=20
Myles
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11484,'Mon Apr 26 19:14:51 1999','Referal Fees',3,0,'
Hi Anthony,
I am not sure what refferal programme TimJ put in place
when he initiated our relationship, but assume that there
is or will be one if we are to reffer the majority of our
clients to you.
If such a programme is in place please could you let me know
the details and I will publicise them on the site;
if one is not could you give it your consideration (especially with regard to its retrospective application :)
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11485,'Tue Apr 27 23:37:23 1999','Re: Referal Fees',52,11484,'Posted on behalf of Anthony by TimP
Yes, there can be a referral program, even a retrospective program!
Do you have any scheme to suggest?
Antony
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11486,'Fri May 7 11:55:48 1999','Magazines',1,0,'
Hello
Do you (plural (Paneris types)), read any of the Internet magazines,
if so which. If not which one might you read if you were to read one?
I\'m thinking of putting an ad in, with the aim of reaching,
SOHO web designers, programmers, presence providers.
Also, please change our link on your Paneris site to http://www.maytech.net.
Thanks
A
PS. Agra are prepared to consider moving all their existing databases
over to your system. I\'ve got several on my other server all running
on Perl and rubber bands.
I\'ll see if I can put together a spec. Or maybe if I\'m tooo lazy to do
that you\'ll have to come to Tunbridge Wells, and meet Kevin and we\'ll
run through it all, maybe that\'d be the best thing - we\'ll see.
Antony
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11487,'Fri May 7 12:05:30 1999','Re: Magazines',1,11486,'
>Do you (plural (Paneris types)), read any of the Internet magazines,
>if so which. If not which one might you read if you were to read one?
I read wired (US), nothing published in the UK.
>I\'m thinking of putting an ad in, with the aim of reaching,
>SOHO web designers, programmers, presence providers.
are you not going to be better targeting these people with online marketing? I would start in the specailaist news groups. Certainly the servlet mailing list used to have lots of questions about finding an ISP to host with. Also, checkout www.servletcentral.com and to a lesser extent www.webdeveloper.com.
If you need online marketing experteese, try contacting afam (www.marketing4technology.com)
>Also, please change our link on your Paneris site to http://www.maytech.net.
done. you need to get rid of your frame borders and pre-load your rollovers. also I would loose the bg - makes it a bit difficult to read.
>PS. Agra are prepared to consider moving all their existing databases
>over to your system. I\'ve got several on my other server all running
>on Perl and rubber bands.
great!
>I\'ll see if I can put together a spec. Or maybe if I\'m tooo lazy to do
>that you\'ll have to come to Tunbridge Wells, and meet Kevin and we\'ll
>run through it all, maybe that\'d be the best thing - we\'ll see.
Fine, let me know when.
timj
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11488,'Sun May 9 10:44:34 1999','Re: Re: Referal Fees',3,11485,'
Anthony,
Sorry to take so long to get back to you, I was hoping TimJ might chip in.
>Yes, there can be a referral program, even a retrospective program!
>Do you have any scheme to suggest?
I think that I-way give 10% of first year as a one off payment.
(That would be 64.80 for the PFEWeb site, I think. )
The money is so small, and TimJ found you, so it might be good to put these
payments into the Paneris Fund.
yours
timP
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11489,'Mon May 10 11:51:03 1999','Re: Magazines',2,11486,'
Antony,
I don\'t read any (real) magazines except Wired which isn\'t really
appropriate. I get most of my news on-line, but non of the sites
I read could be described as aimed at the people you mention
(Wired News is too big, JavaLobby is too speciallised, etc).
Sorry,
Myles
>Hello
>Do you (plural (Paneris types)), read any of the Internet magazines,
>if so which. If not which one might you read if you were to read one?
>I\'m thinking of putting an ad in, with the aim of reaching,
>SOHO web designers, programmers, presence providers.
>Also, please change our link on your Paneris site to http://www.maytech.net.
>Thanks
>A
>PS. Agra are prepared to consider moving all their existing databases
>over to your system. I\'ve got several on my other server all running
>on Perl and rubber bands.
>I\'ll see if I can put together a spec. Or maybe if I\'m tooo lazy to do
>that you\'ll have to come to Tunbridge Wells, and meet Kevin and we\'ll
>run through it all, maybe that\'d be the best thing - we\'ll see.
>Antony
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11490,'Mon May 10 12:35:45 1999','Re: Re: Re: Referal Fees',52,11488,'Posted on behalf of Anthony by TimP
That seems fair, there\'s in fact two confirmed and one probable order.
Where do I put the money? Do I get an invoice?
Antony
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11491,'Tue May 11 8:22:54 1999','Re: Re: Magazines',52,11487,'Posted on behalf of Anthony by TimJ
are you not going to be better targeting these people with online
marketing? I would start in the specailaist news groups. Certainly
the servlet mailing list used to have lots of questions about finding
an ISP to host with. Also, checkout www.servletcentral.com and to a
lesser extent www.webdeveloper.com.
If you need online marketing experteese, try contacting afam
(www.marketing4technology.com)
Thanks for the tip.
>Also, please change our link on your Paneris site to http://www.maytech.net.
done. you need to get rid of your frame borders and pre-load your
rollovers. also I would loose the bg - makes it a bit difficult to
read.
Which frameborders/rollovers on which site?
>I\'ll see if I can put together a spec. Or maybe if I\'m tooo lazy to do
>that you\'ll have to come to Tunbridge Wells, and meet Kevin and we\'ll
>run through it all, maybe that\'d be the best thing - we\'ll see.
Fine, let me know when.
I\'ll fix something up.
Antony
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11492,'Tue May 11 8:23:48 1999','Re: Re: Re: Magazines',1,11491,'
>Which frameborders/rollovers on which site?
ooops, I was looking at www.maytech.net
timj
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11493,'Tue May 11 20:07:47 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Referal Fees',1,11490,'
>Sorry to take so long to get back to you, I was hoping TimJ might chip in.
didn\'t think i needed to :)
>The money is so small, and TimJ found you, so it might be good to put these
>payments into the Paneris Fund.
good plan.
the paneris fund essentially funds our server costs and the christmas party.
>That seems fair, there\'s in fact two confirmed and one probable order.
>Where do I put the money? Do I get an invoice?
hoop maintains the paneris fund, so i can invoice you. please let me know how much.
thank you.
timj
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11494,'Fri Jun 4 8:22:33 1999','Padds',52,0,'Posted on behalf of Antony by TimJ
Sorry I forgot to introduce you.
Jonathon O\'Connor AKA Padds/Paddy. Is the top networking man. For some
reason he now lives in Ohio. He has set up things like the DNS, and
mail server, and is the one who actually knows how these things work.
If you can\'t contact me and there\'s some panic with the server contact
Padds.
The other contact you should note is mike@mk.net. He\'s the person who
can physically press the reset switch should that ever be urgently
needed. His cell phone number is: (908) 759-2613.
Padds, FYI: Tim and his various mates are the people who\'ve implemented
the PostgreSQL and various Java stuff on www.maytech.net, and have
various customer\'s virtual sites on it.
All clear to everybody?
A.
','f','',84,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
85,'sugar','sugar Project',885,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sugar/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sugar/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11495,'Mon Feb 8 13:17:20 1999','timj pp Kevin McQuaid',1,0,'
>Anthony,
>
>Please find attached two files. The first is a Word document giving a
>description of our requirements for the Sugar Internet Guide. The secon
>is the Access database with the relevant information.
>
>When you have read them through, could you please give me an estimate of
>when you could have this product ready and how much it will cost us.
>
>Regards
>
>Kevin McQuaid
>Systems Manager
>Agra Europe
>
>Email: ktm@agra-europe.com
>Tel: (01892) 533813
>
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11496,'Mon Feb 8 13:18:29 1999','Re: timj pp Kevin McQuaid',1,11495,'Posted on behalf of Kevin McQuaid by TimJ
Word document:
Antony,
We would like to proceed ASAP with the Sugar Internet Guide which we talked
about before christmas. I have attached the relevant Access file. As you can
see there are three tables involved, a list of companies, a list of
categories and a link table to show which company comes under which
category.
The aim of your program is to first display a list of all the categories
beginning ith the letter A. Along the bottom of the screen should be option
buttons for the different letters of the alphabet and an exit button.
On this screen the user can do one of the following:
? Select another letter - The display will then change to show the
categories beginning with that letter.
? Select a category. The display will then change to display the companies
connected with that category
? Select the Exit button - The user will then be taken back to the menu
screen that called the program
When a list of companies are displayed the user should be able to scroll
through the available companies, select the one they require and display
that companies’ details. They should also have the option to return to the
category listing.
The company display will consist of all the fields in the Company table but
please note that not all the fields will be available on all records. Where
a logoFile entry exists, we would like to display a TIF file. Where the
company has a webpage entry we would like to make a link to their site.
If you prefer I can easily provide the information in an ASCII format
Please bear in mind that we would like to use this program for other
directory guides later in the year so, where possible, could you please keep
the progam code seperate from the screen display code. It is worth bearing
in mind that the other guides have significantly extra categories and
companies.
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11497,'Mon Feb 8 13:19:35 1999','Sugar Internet Guide',52,0,'Posted on behalf of Antony Freeman by TimJ
>Tim
>
>As discussed. For your guidance - this customer is very straightforward
>to deal with
>but a little price sensitive. Nice simple job for you if you can keep it
>cheap!
>
>--
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11498,'Mon Feb 8 13:20:45 1999','Re: Sugar Internet Guide',1,11497,'
Antony,
As discussed on the phone, we propose the following:
1) Installation of Postgress database on your linux box.
This is quite a tricky process and will take about 1 day, and can be done
remotely. It requires that you have a newish version of Apache, which you
are willing to upgrade to if necessary. Cost £300.
2) Build of Sugar Database.
This will be done on your linux box with postgress, using java servlets and
the webmacro template engine (www.webmacro.org). We will need to install a
servlet runner (jserve) and webmacro, this will be done FOC.
The Sugar application will be implemented as per the client spec, with the
ability to import tables from the sugar database. The client will have to
upload the data periodically (using ftp) as .csv files, and then run an
import function.
the customer should be aware that graphics for company logos will need to be
supplied by him in .gif or .jpg format (not TIF as written in his
specification). He will be required to upload the graphics via FTP.
Cost for full implementation (with no graphic elements): £1000.
for completeness, I have included the clients specification below.
All prices exclude VAT.
Please call if any of this is unclear, or you have any price etc. concerns.
We look forward to working with you.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11499,'Mon Feb 8 13:22:09 1999','go-ahead',1,0,'Posted on behalf of Kevin by TimJ
Antony,
I have had the all clear for us to proceed with the Sugar database at
the agreed price. So it\'s over to you ....
Regards
Kevin
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11500,'Fri Feb 12 16:26:05 1999','Installation of Webmacro and Postgres',2,0,'
Dear all,
I have installed Postgres and some of the Java needed to support
WebMacro, but I have now go the point where I need to install JServ,
the Java servlet runner from the Apache group. At present
Apache 1.2.4 is installed. We either need to recompile this with
the JServ code (statically) linked in, or upgrade to Apache
1.3.* (1.3.4 is the latest) with DSO support (which allows you to
add/remove modules at runtime). I understand that Anthony Freeman
has agreed to do this.
Please get in touch to discuss further what is needed.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11501,'Wed Feb 17 14:06:02 1999','Installation complete',2,0,'
Dear all,
I have now set up:
Apache 1.3.3
Apache JServ 1.0b1
JDK 1.1.7v1a
JSDK 2.0
Webmacro 0.75.3
Postgres 6.4 including JDBC driver
I have a report of my actions which contains sensitive information
which I will forward via e-mail.
Anthony agreed to an extra 3 hours worth of work on this since
I ended up upgrading Apache (although I still haven\'t received
the e-mail confirmation about this that Anthony said we will send).
I have updated the PMS (including the extra budget).
Regards,
Myles
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11502,'Sun Mar 7 20:41:38 1999','Mod_Referrer ',1,0,'
Chippy,
Question from Antony:
Would it be a big deal to recompile Apache with Mod_Referrer included?
timj
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11503,'Thu Mar 18 18:28:28 1999','DONE',2,11502,'
>Chippy,
>Question from Antony:
>Would it be a big deal to recompile Apache with Mod_Referrer included?
>timj
We were given an extra hour for this. Done.
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11504,'Thu Mar 25 13:37:26 1999','links',1,0,'
timp,
i have sorted out the sugar page so that all the links now work properly.
timj
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11505,'Thu Apr 8 8:08:23 1999','upgrade',1,0,'
Antony,
I have done significant work on our back end technology that runs the sugar system, and would like to upgrade maytech to bring it into line with our development box. I have fully tested the technology on our development machine so updating should not take long (perhaps 0.5 hours).
The changes will make the system faster and provide a more solid foundation for further development. I feel that it is important to keep sugar inline with our development as it is not sensible to have legacy systems for technology that is soo young.
Let me know when it would be convenient to update maytech (sugar), it is probably best to wait until the customer has uploaded data sucessfully as otheriwse we multiply the factors that can go wrong.
cheers
timj
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11506,'Thu Apr 8 13:28:14 1999','Re: upgrade',1,11505,'
Antony,
I have fixed the csv file import so that is no longer hangs when confronted with a blank line!
This fix has been done on the updated sw, so I will need to upgrade maytech. As mentioned, this should not take long (0.5 hours).
Please let me know when it is convenient.
timj
','f','',85,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
86,'epinet','epinet Interface',886,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/epinet/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/epinet/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11507,'Mon Feb 8 14:25:07 1999','epinet partner page',1,0,'
Robert,
Thanks loads for a very productive meeting last week.
We have created a partner page on our project management site. This can be found at www.paneris.co.uk/partners/epinet.
It has an associated messageboard (where this message can be found). You will be coppied on all correspondance. I hope this is OK.
Iglu would like a written (email) quote for their server hosting (single machine for 1 year), please can you provide this. It will need to include items such as backup, and any other services included.
On a broader note, a price list (like the one you showed us) would be very useful. If appropiate, we would like to post it on your partner page, so that programmers looking for ISP services need not bother you when preparing quotes.
You cannot (at present) reply to this message using email, but please feel free to visit the messageboard, or just use regular email.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',86,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11508,'Thu Feb 11 16:05:30 1999','epinet pricing',1,0,'
All,
The virtual server price list is now up, the hosted server prices will follow soon.
TimJ
','f','',86,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
87,'afl','afl Project',887,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/afl/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/afl/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11509,'Mon Nov 23 10:37:37 1998','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',87,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11510,'Mon Nov 23 10:42:47 1998','test',1,0,'
Colin, Simon,
Please can you reply to this post in order to confirm you are recieving messages from the messageboard.
The AFL messageboard can be reached by going to
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/hoop/afl/index.html
anc following the \'messages\' link
or by using the link at the top of this mail.
I will post up further actions when we know things are working.
good luck
Tim
','f','',87,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11511,'Mon Nov 23 11:58:52 1998','Re: test reply',122,11510,'Posted to the old system by Simon Smith (SGS@actfile.demon.co.uk)
>Colin, Tim,
>Please can you reply to this post in order to confirm you are recieving messages from the messageboard.
This is it - I hope.
>Simon
','f','',87,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11512,'Mon Nov 23 11:59:20 1998','Re: test reply',122,11510,'Posted to the old system by Simon Smith (SGS@actfile.demon.co.uk)
>Colin, Tim,
>Please can you reply to this post in order to confirm you are recieving messages from the messageboard.
This is it - I hope.
>Simon
','f','',87,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11513,'Mon Nov 23 14:20:24 1998','Re: test',32,11510,'
Message received.
','f','',87,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11514,'Mon Nov 23 14:57:54 1998','Saturday\'s meeting',1,0,'Posted on behalf of Simon Smith by TimJ
Tim,
1. Meeting with Colin
Had a good meeting with Colin today regarding Graphics for PayPoint for
Windows project (PFW).
2. Outline Plan
We agreed that before we get going too far it will be important to
establish the total scope of the work required. In order to do this
Colin plans to spend a couple of days over the next few weeks
considering the following:
a. ICON groups to fit our application areas and images
that could be used.
b. Main Menu Image ideas
c. General Comments on proposed Windows Screen Layout
d. Production of an Example Bit Map for a Function and
outline image for the Main Menu
I have agreed to send some further examples of screen dumps to help with
point c and asked Colin to give critical input which we could do with.
3. Commercial stuff
After previous advice you had given me I did not discuss this with Colin
at the meeting but do need to firm up initial costs with you now in
order to allow for point 2 to be actioned.
The good news is that I feel Colin could be just the guy I\'m after and
frankly I am keen to give him the work.
The bad new is that I have to admit to have approached others on this
subject whilst waiting for Colin to become available. They have given me
a mixture of responses on both costs & delivery times.
I will need therefore to reflect on this in light of your suggested rate
for Colin. Also I have been spending money like crazy recently and thus
need to be additionaly careful over what could be a very hit or miss
element of the project.
With this in mind can I suggest that we use the initial tasks required
for point 2 as a way of proving that Colin is the man for the Job and
agree a slightly lower rate - or even a fixed price for this part of the
project?
After this we could probably revert back to your suggested rate for the
full project.
What do you think?
Perhaps you could discuss it with Colin and bounce me back some
figures/thoughts.
Best Regards
Simon Smith
','f','',87,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11515,'Mon Nov 23 15:06:48 1998','Re: Saturday\'s meeting',1,11514,'
Colin,
I had a chat with Simon this morning about his plan. He would like an estimate of the time to complete point 2. He is also after devilery before xmas, is this possible?
>2. Outline Plan
>We agreed that before we get going too far it will be important to
>establish the total scope of the work required. In order to do this
>Colin plans to spend a couple of days over the next few weeks
>considering the following:
> a. ICON groups to fit our application areas and images
> that could be used.
> b. Main Menu Image ideas
> c. General Comments on proposed Windows Screen Layout
> d. Production of an Example Bit Map for a Function and
> outline image for the Main Menu
>
>I have agreed to send some further examples of screen dumps to help with
>point c and asked Colin to give critical input which we could do with.
>With this in mind can I suggest that we use the initial tasks required
>for point 2 as a way of proving that Colin is the man for the Job and
>agree a slightly lower rate - or even a fixed price for this part of the
>project?
I don\'t really think we can do a reduced rate, especially as the initial bit is probably the hard part. I understand your need to control costs, so a fixed rate might be best.
Colin: can you put together some estimates so we can come up with a fixed costs. (please use the PMS).
>After this we could probably revert back to your suggested rate for the
>full project.
we could switch back to hourly pricing, but could also stick with a fixed price, perhaps we shoud wait and see.
TimJ
','f','',87,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
88,'finsbury','finsbury Project',888,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/finsbury/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/finsbury/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11516,'Fri Apr 9 11:12:50 1999','hi',1,0,'
Leo,
I have set up some project management space at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/hoop/finsbury
Please take a look.
I have amended the proposal as per yesterday\'s conversation. The proposal is accessable from the above url.
As discussed, I expect to report progress to you frequently, additionally, please take a look at the project report which records the hours we all spend on the project.
Also, I will be invoicing for 25% of the project today, your invoices are available from the above url. I will let you know when I have put it in.
As discussed, please can you send me any (all) designed material that finsbury have, this will be used by the designer as a basis for the web site design. Additionally, any URLs of sites where you like the design would be extreemly useful.
This message has be posted to you by the Paneris messageboard system (go to your project page and click on the "messages" link at the top). The system is slightly flawed as you cannot simply \'reply\' to the emails sent out by the board, but must actually visit the web site in order to reply. This (and the requirement to use better technology) is why we are rewriting our messageboard technology for this project.
Everybody involved with the project will be automatically coppied on all posts on the messageboard.
As discussed on the phone, the following items need immenent action:
1) Brief designer
2) Purchase web space
3) Build skeleton site
4) Do database design
I will ask our chosen ISP (www.datatext.co.uk) to set up the webspace (and access to database etc) today. I will ask him to bill you directly (£500 for the 1st year, as per the proposal). Please get back to me if this is not OK.
The site will be hosted on a server in MAE East. This is essentially the center of the internet (together with MAE West), and so offers excellent connection speeds.
I think that is it!
speak soon
timj
','f','',88,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11517,'Fri Apr 9 15:22:11 1999','invoice',1,0,'
Leo,
Please find an invoice for 25% of the total cost on our invoice system. To get to it, use the green button on your paneris page (http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/hoop/finsbury/)
Cheers
timj
','f','',88,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11518,'Wed Apr 21 12:33:38 1999','development area',1,0,'
Leo,
We have got the web space for the finsbury site through, and I have put up a quick skeleton site, have a look at:
http://209.249.98.246/
any news on the design materials?
timj
','f','',88,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
89,'illustrators','illustrators Project',889,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/illustrators/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/illustrators/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11519,'Tue Mar 9 21:31:18 1999','invoice',1,0,'
Patrick,
I have put up the site, please check it is all ok.
I have also done an invoice, you can get to it from www.paneris.co.uk/partners/hoop/illustrators
Please let me know if this is not ok.
cheers
timJ
','f','',89,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11520,'Fri Mar 19 13:58:09 1999','Re: invoice',1,11519,'
Here is the original message:
>Patrick,
>I have put up the site, please check it is all ok.
>I have also done an invoice, you can get to it from www.paneris.co.uk/partners/hoop/illustrators
>Please let me know if this is not ok.
>cheers
>timJ
','f','',89,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
90,'maf','maf Project',890,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/maf/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/maf/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11521,'Wed Apr 21 15:51:42 1999','Museum of Army Flying Launch',1,0,'
All,
Please check it out at www.flying-museum.org.uk
Cheers
timj
','f','',90,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11522,'Wed Apr 21 16:30:16 1999','Re: Museum of Army Flying Launch',3,11521,'
>All,
>Please check it out at www.flying-museum.org.uk
It is beautiful, and nothing broke whilst I skimmed it.
yours
timP
PS if you put the http:// in Eudora recognises urls ;-)
','f','',90,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11523,'Wed Apr 21 17:51:16 1999','Re: Re: Museum of Army Flying Launch',4,11522,'
Very pretty!! :-)
','f','',90,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11524,'Wed Apr 21 20:36:48 1999','Re: Museum of Army Flying Launch',2,11521,'
>All,
>Please check it out at www.flying-museum.org.uk
>Cheers
>timj
Not another site with no links :-)
Lush!
Myles
','f','',90,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
91,'hoop','hoop Interface',891,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/hoop/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/hoop/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11525,'Wed Sep 15 19:40:41 1999','Create_project.pl added to hoop',3,0,'
I have added a link called \'new gig\' to /partners/hoop/subject.shtml
This uses /partners/hoop/creat_project.template to create a new
node beneath hoop, with default values.
Any improvements to the template welcomed.
','f','',91,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11526,'Wed Sep 15 19:40:41 1999','Create project script',3,0,'
The create project script is a bit more harsh than it has been,
and now wont let you create projects with names over 8 characters long.
Looking at you pag emaybe that whould be 16.
TimP
','f','',91,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
92,'saa','saa Project',892,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/saa/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/saa/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11527,'Sat Jan 16 17:26:34 1999','erroneous tasks',1,0,'
Chippy,
can you please take a look at the project report for this project, it seems to have some of you tasks which shouldn\'t be there.
Dunno how it happened?
TimJ
','f','',92,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11528,'Mon Jan 18 15:47:59 1999','Re: erroneous tasks',2,11527,'
>Chippy,
>can you please take a look at the project report for this project, it seems to have some of you tasks which shouldn\'t be there.
Fixed
>Dunno how it happened?
Ditto. It had a PO and 3 task dates (which I wouldn\'t have
filled in). Do you reckon it\'s connected with loosing I-Way
data...? Just a guess.
>TimJ
Myles
','f','',92,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
93,'transworld','transworld Project',893,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/transworld/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/transworld/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11529,'Wed Sep 15 19:37:36 1999','Bad luck (how to archive)',3,0,'
At 17:08 03/08/98 +0100, Tim Joyce wrote:
>Boys,
>
>We didn\'t get it :(
>
Sorry to hear that.
To archive a project:
Create a new node (/partners/hoop/archive/) using creat_node.pl
Using FTP rename transworld to archive/transworld
Using search_replace.pl, at the new archive node, replace \'hoop/transworld\' with \'hoop/archive/transworld\'.
Regenerate using generate.pl, probably at the hoop node, or at the root.
yours
TimP
','f','',93,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
94,'whitewilson','whitewilson Project',894,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/whitewilson/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/whitewilson/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11530,'Tue Feb 23 18:32:03 1999','White & Wilson',35,0,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by MylesC
Hi Myles,
here\'s what I was banging on about.
You\'ll see when you look at the existing site that there are 8 pages,
with corresponding icons in the toolbar. We\'re adding 2 new pages, and
tweaking a few bits elsewhere. Here\'s what needs to be done
specifically:
1/ Implement new toolbar throughout (new_tools.psd) with rollover
effect. (Incidentally, can we shunt the tools over to left a bit, so the
scroll bar doesn\'t encroach over the buttons ?)
2/ Implement the two new pages \'2000\' and \'News\';
\'2000\' has a new anim (\'2000.gif\'), but uses the colours and \'polaroid\'
from
\'Profile\' page, so just slap the new heading and anim over the old
"profile\' page to create "2000\' page.
\'News\' uses the elements from \'Links\' (inc. anim), so just slap the
heading over the existing \'Links\' page to create \'News\' page.
3/ \'Profile\' page needs to be updated to include a pic of Deborah,
included here within \'Profile_new.psd\'. The body text will then need to
run around the photo.
4/ I\'ve created new buttons for \'Clients\' page as discussed.
(Clients_new.psd)
Button No.1; password protected page for each client. I guess you\'ll
need to discuss the mechanics of this with Lesley...MYLES the idea here
is that clients can review their confidential insurance details via this
feature. Could we set up some sort of a working model?
Button No.2; I\'d suggest simply setting up an email form for now,
directed to info@WhiteandWilson.co.uk MYLES this is so that clients can
send in documentation relating to claims etc. Can this be set up so that
one can attatch documents to the email?
In terms of layout, the body text on "Clients\' will need to drop down to
accomodate the buttons.
5/ Remove \'Financial Services\' from Products & Services\' page.
6/ Implement links on Links page. (To be advised....)
You\'ll find the existing site here;
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/hoop/whitewilson
I\'m attatching the relevant new artworks here. Please call if anything\'s
unclear!
Many thanks...
Keith
--
Keith Hagan
Design & Illustration
25 Straightsmouth Greenwich
London SE10 9LB
Tel/Fax: 0181 853 2156
Email: keith@creedo.demon.co.uk
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11531,'Tue Feb 23 18:55:41 1999','Re: White & Wilson',2,11530,'
>Hi Myles,
>here\'s what I was banging on about.
[snip]
Keith,
I\'ve had a problem with the archive - I\'ve used Aladdin
Expander 2.0 and 5.0B for windows and it just said that it
didn\'t think it was in the right format. Could you send it
again, preferably in .zip format?
The email seems to explain it all, so long as the text for
the 2 new pages are in the archive. It looks like a few hours
work.
I am also a little unsure about what exactly is needed for
viewing people\'s insurance details. I understand that you
would like users to log in and be presented with the details
of their (one) agreement? If there are more than one we can
present a list of policies with links to show the details
as above. If that\'s right then what I need to know is:
- How many people are there? Or are they companies?
- What are their usernames/passwords?
- What data needs to be displayed and what format is it
available in currently?
- How does the data get updated?
If we do the data updating then the above should take 4 hours,
although there will be more work in maintaining the system
(e.g. editing perl scripts).
As for the mail form, it would take up to 6 hours to get a
script uploading a page and attaching it to an e-mail, and
about 3 to just send an e-mail.
Let me know about the scripts, please. I\'ll look forward to
getting the archive of files.
regards,
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11532,'Wed Feb 24 13:02:36 1999','Scripts and details',35,0,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by MylesC
Myles,
thanks for your notes last night.
Firstly, there is no body text for the two new pages \'2000\' and \'News\'
at this stage! They\'ll effectively be blank for now.
As for the password protected area of the \'Clients\' page;
W & W insure film companies and other organisations chiefly, rather than
individuals. There is no pw set-up in place, and no passwords have been
issued. What we need to do is set up a \'working model\' of this feature,
with a form displaying the following fields (which I\'ve just received..)
TYPE OF INSURANCE
ASSURED
PERIOD OF INSURANCE
DEFINITION
INTEREST COVERED & SUMS INSURED
DEDUCTIBLES
LIMITS OF INDEMNITY
SPECIAL EXTENSIONS
TERRITORIAL LIMITS
CONDITIONS
PREMIUM
IPT@4%
TOTAL PAYABLE
INSURERS
INFORMATION
IMPORTANT NOTE
The idea is that ultimately all clients will have access to their
insurance policies. The ability to choose in the first instance from a
number of existing policies would be ideal. I\'m not sure what form the
data is currently in, but I\'ll find out. They plan to do the updating
themselves as new policies are implemented on a daily basis, so they\'ll
probably need some in-house tuition at some stage (by yourself?).
Sorry you had problems opening the archive! I\'m attaching the files here
unstuffed. I\'ll give you a call this morning...
Keith
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11533,'Wed Feb 24 13:05:05 1999','Re: Scripts and details',2,11532,'
Keith,
That all seems fine. We need to check, though, that the
live site will be set up for us to put the stuff on. In
particular we need to check
1) The OS of the server machine
2) Whether Perl is installed, and which version (4 or 5)
We can always set Perl up ourselves, but that\'s more work
and the ISP might not be keen.
Let me know,
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11534,'Wed Feb 24 15:04:36 1999','Re: Re: Scripts and details',35,11533,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by Mylesc
Myles,
I haven\'t been able to get hold of Lesley (the office manager) at White &
Wilson, but she probably won\'t have the info you need anyway. Nor can I get
hold of Paul Downey the contact at Rebus just now; I think he\'s at lunch.
It may be a good idea if you were to give him a call, as it would probably
go over my head anyway! Would you mind? I am presuming the data will be run
off Rebus\' server; for this week, however, we just need to get a \'skeleton\'
in place on the site.
Here is Paul\'s number, with the last message we had from him, which may or
may not be important.
>Rebus and White and Wilson have now resolved outstanding
>issues. W&W has signed and returned the Rebus Hosting contract.
>
>Before the site goes live, W&W need to instruct the ISP ( Demon) holding
the
>W&W domain name of whiteandwilson.co.uk to forward HTTP traffic to IP
>address = 194.131.85.136 (allocated by UUNET).
>
>When you have reached agreement with W&W that the site is ready to go live,
>please ensure that W&W pass the request above to DEMON.
>
>Kind regards
>Paul Downey
>(01702 - 386091)
Thanks Myles...talk later.
Keith
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11535,'Wed Feb 24 15:42:18 1999','Re: Re: Re: Scripts and details',2,11534,'
Keith,
I have contacted Paul and he answered my questions:
1) The server is running under NT 4.0 (using IIS)
2) Perl is installed, but is only version 4. Actually,
I have just had a phone call 15 minutes after asking
if they would upgrade to perl 5 to say that they have
done it! Super service.
I have also asked Lesley Hall at W&W to send a fax to Demon
to set up "off-site web forwarding" from whiteandwilson.co.uk
to 194.131.85.136, so that should be working tomorrow.
Myles
[snip]
>Here is Paul\'s number, with the last message we had from him, which may or
>may not be important.
>
>>Rebus and White and Wilson have now resolved outstanding
>>issues. W&W has signed and returned the Rebus Hosting contract.
>>
>>Before the site goes live, W&W need to instruct the ISP ( Demon) holding
>the
>>W&W domain name of whiteandwilson.co.uk to forward HTTP traffic to IP
>>address = 194.131.85.136 (allocated by UUNET).
>>
>>When you have reached agreement with W&W that the site is ready to go live,
>>please ensure that W&W pass the request above to DEMON.
>>
>>Kind regards
>>Paul Downey
>>(01702 - 386091)
>Thanks Myles...talk later.
>Keith
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11536,'Wed Feb 24 17:09:10 1999','Re: Scripts and details',1,11532,'
This sounds very much like a database application to me, and is deffinitely outside the scope of this project. I think that what we should do is to mock up the password protection in html/htaccess or in simple perl, and put some sample pages behind it.
After we have satisfied the initial requirements, we should give them a call (or even visit) to discuss more thoroughly their db requirements.
I am in london on monday if a visit would be useful.
thoughts?
timj
>As for the password protected area of the \'Clients\' page;
>W & W insure film companies and other organisations chiefly, rather than
>individuals. There is no pw set-up in place, and no passwords have been
>issued. What we need to do is set up a \'working model\' of this feature,
>with a form displaying the following fields (which I\'ve just received..)
>TYPE OF INSURANCE
>ASSURED
>PERIOD OF INSURANCE
>DEFINITION
>INTEREST COVERED & SUMS INSURED
>DEDUCTIBLES
>LIMITS OF INDEMNITY
>SPECIAL EXTENSIONS
>TERRITORIAL LIMITS
>CONDITIONS
>PREMIUM
>IPT@4%
>TOTAL PAYABLE
>INSURERS
>INFORMATION
>IMPORTANT NOTE
>
>The idea is that ultimately all clients will have access to their
>insurance policies. The ability to choose in the first instance from a
>number of existing policies would be ideal. I\'m not sure what form the
>data is currently in, but I\'ll find out. They plan to do the updating
>themselves as new policies are implemented on a daily basis, so they\'ll
>probably need some in-house tuition at some stage (by yourself?).
>Sorry you had problems opening the archive! I\'m attaching the files here
>unstuffed. I\'ll give you a call this morning...
>Keith
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11537,'Fri Feb 26 12:29:26 1999','DNS setup',2,11535,'
The new domain name now works.
>Keith,
>I have contacted Paul and he answered my questions:
>1) The server is running under NT 4.0 (using IIS)
>2) Perl is installed, but is only version 4. Actually,
> I have just had a phone call 15 minutes after asking
> if they would upgrade to perl 5 to say that they have
> done it! Super service.
>I have also asked Lesley Hall at W&W to send a fax to Demon
>to set up "off-site web forwarding" from whiteandwilson.co.uk
>to 194.131.85.136, so that should be working tomorrow.
>Myles
[snip]
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11538,'Fri Feb 26 12:30:48 1999','More changes',35,0,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by Mylesc
Hi Myles,
are you winning?!
Lesley send me this earlier; further changes, but only to the text on
various pages, and some of the fields on existing Claims and Weather Day
forms. If you have time to implement this, all well and good, if not, then
we\'ll have to look at it next week...
By the way, Lesley\'s direct line is; 0171 534 1743
___________________________________________________________________________
Dear Keith,
Here are details of the text changes we require for existing pages:-
Home Page : Please change end of first paragraph from Film, TV and
Commercials industries to Media and Entertainment Industries.
Second paragraph, include millenium information and client pages.
Company Profile : Paragraph one, please change broadcast, production and
media to Media and Entertainment Insurance.
Paragraph two, with a young to an experienced, after both large and
small anywhere in the world. Need cover for a car show to shoot in the
Sahara Desert or a stage show in Sydney,
Products & Services : Paragraph one, its easier to rewrite
Specialising in a service for the Media and Entertainment industry also
means providing the full range for all forms of general insurance needs
too.
Selecting one of the following categories will allow you etc. This takes
you into the contact page/email details, these both need to be amended
to the following categories:-
* Production
* Events
* Liability
* Weatherday
* Commercial
* Contingency
* Prize Indemnity
* Over Redemption
* Death & Disgrace
* Motor
* Household
* Travel/Personal Accident
* Key Person
* Professional Indemnity
* Credit Insurance
Claims : Take out insured party
Between Name and Address put in Company.
Change home telephone to Contact telephone number
Change office telephone to contact fax number
Email Address
Policy number to Mobile telephone number
Delete business/occupation
Please make the box bigger for description/details of loss
Weather day insurance : Please change first paragraph to read If you\'re
planning a shoot you\'d be wise to consider the additional protection of
Weather Insurance.
Paragraph two take out furthermore.
Paragraph three, after Glamorgan add or rough waters in the red sea.
Change assured (policyholder) to Policyholder
Email to email address
Take out production company
Advertiser /event
Product/details
Filming/dates/event
Air date (if applic)
Use of : Aircraft /Ariel
Boats/Underwater
Special Effects/Hazardous
Animals
Cars
If so give details
Links : We have now got the following peoples OK to link with their
websites:-
Post Production Companies
Smoke & Mirrors - www.smoke-mirrors.com
Tele-Cine Ltd - www.tele-cine.co.uk
Video post production
Rushes - www.rushes.co.uk
Lighting Companies
AFM Lighting - www.AFMlighting.com
Weather bureau
www.nodent.co.uk/ndws
We are having a company photo taken on Thursday and will mail (one way
or another) this to you for inclusion as soon as possible with a list of
contact numbers, office, home, mobile and email addresses.
Any problems give me a call
Regards
Lesley
Keith Hagan
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11539,'Fri Feb 26 12:32:01 1999','Re: More changes',35,11538,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by Mylesc
Hi Myles,
are you winning?!
Lesley send me this earlier; further changes, but only to the text on
various pages, and some of the fields on existing Claims and Weather Day
forms. If you have time to implement this, all well and good, if not, then
we\'ll have to look at it next week...
By the way, Lesley\'s direct line is; 0171 534 1743
___________________________________________________________________________
Dear Keith,
Here are details of the text changes we require for existing pages:-
Home Page : Please change end of first paragraph from Film, TV and
Commercials industries to Media and Entertainment Industries.
Second paragraph, include millenium information and client pages.
Company Profile : Paragraph one, please change broadcast, production and
media to Media and Entertainment Insurance.
Paragraph two, with a young to an experienced, after both large and
small anywhere in the world. Need cover for a car show to shoot in the
Sahara Desert or a stage show in Sydney,
Products & Services : Paragraph one, its easier to rewrite
Specialising in a service for the Media and Entertainment industry also
means providing the full range for all forms of general insurance needs
too.
Selecting one of the following categories will allow you etc. This takes
you into the contact page/email details, these both need to be amended
to the following categories:-
* Production
* Events
* Liability
* Weatherday
* Commercial
* Contingency
* Prize Indemnity
* Over Redemption
* Death & Disgrace
* Motor
* Household
* Travel/Personal Accident
* Key Person
* Professional Indemnity
* Credit Insurance
Claims : Take out insured party
Between Name and Address put in Company.
Change home telephone to Contact telephone number
Change office telephone to contact fax number
Email Address
Policy number to Mobile telephone number
Delete business/occupation
Please make the box bigger for description/details of loss
Weather day insurance : Please change first paragraph to read If you\'re
planning a shoot you\'d be wise to consider the additional protection of
Weather Insurance.
Paragraph two take out furthermore.
Paragraph three, after Glamorgan add or rough waters in the red sea.
Change assured (policyholder) to Policyholder
Email to email address
Take out production company
Advertiser /event
Product/details
Filming/dates/event
Air date (if applic)
Use of : Aircraft /Ariel
Boats/Underwater
Special Effects/Hazardous
Animals
Cars
If so give details
Links : We have now got the following peoples OK to link with their
websites:-
Post Production Companies
Smoke & Mirrors - www.smoke-mirrors.com
Tele-Cine Ltd - www.tele-cine.co.uk
Video post production
Rushes - www.rushes.co.uk
Lighting Companies
AFM Lighting - www.AFMlighting.com
Weather bureau
www.nodent.co.uk/ndws
We are having a company photo taken on Thursday and will mail (one way
or another) this to you for inclusion as soon as possible with a list of
contact numbers, office, home, mobile and email addresses.
Any problems give me a call
Regards
Lesley
Keith Hagan
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11540,'Fri Feb 26 12:33:05 1999','Re: Re: More changes',35,11539,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by Mylesc
>From: Lesley Hall <Lesley.Hall@WhiteandWilson.co.uk>
>To: "\'keith@creedo.demon.co.uk\'" <keith@creedo.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Website changes
>Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:04:12 -0000
>X-Priority: 3
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>One important factor I forgot (believe it or not) the email address you
>have on the contacts page is wrong we need to change this to :-
>Deborah.White@whiteandwilson.co.uk
>
>Thanks
>
>Lesley
Keith Hagan
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11541,'Fri Feb 26 12:34:43 1999','Re: Re: Re: More changes',35,11540,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by Mylesc
[I have not posted the \'last text file\' that Keith refers
to - Myles]
Myles,
trash that last text file I send through; I discovered a typo error or
two. More haste less speed and all that...it\'s attatched here again...
Keith
--
Keith Hagan
Design & Illustration
25 Straightsmouth Greenwich
London SE10 9LB
Tel/Fax: 0181 853 2156
Email: keith@creedo.demon.co.uk
HOME
Welcome to the White & Wilson web site. If you haven\'t visited us before, please take time to browse through our pages and discover the full range of insurance services we provide to the Media and Entertainment industries.
We strive to make the insurance process as simple as possible; to this end, you\'ll find on - line facilities here, such as Agency and Production Company insurances, weather details, a basic claim form, a feature for existing clients to review their policies, and millenium information.
We hope you\'ll find the White and Wilson site both informative and stimulating. We look forward to hearing from you.
COMPANY PROFILE
White and Wilson was formed in 1994 by Deborah White who was already established in the field of Media and Entertainment insurance.
From modest beginnings, the company has rapidly expanded to become one of the leading brokers in this area, earning a reputation in the business which is second to none. With an experienced, pro-active team qualified in all aspects of the insurance business, we\'re able to cope with productions and events both large and small anywhere in the world, while retaining our personable, attentive approach.
We want you to focus on your project and leave your insurance concerns to us. Whether you need cover to shoot in the Sahara Desert or for a stage show in Sydney, we aim to provide peace of mind for productions and events worldwide.
PRODUCTS & SERVICES
Specialising in a service for the Media and Entertainment industry, our policies operate on a global basis and are tailored to meet each and every clients\' individual needs.
Selecting one of the following categories will allow you to request further information via E-mail.
* Production
* Events
* Liability
* Weatherday
* Commercial
* Contingency
* Prize Indemnity
* Over Redemption
* Death & Disgrace
* Motor
* Household
* Travel/Personal Accident
* Key Person
* Professional Indemnity
* Credit Insurance
CLIENTS
We strive to develop and maintain a satisfying relationship with each of our clients, providing an accessible and user friendly service. We don\'t want you to have nightmares over your insurance concerns, nor would we expect you to entrust your business to an insurance company lightly, so perhaps you\'ll be assured by what some of our existing clients have to say about us:-
* Helen Durkin Rainey Kelly Campbell Roalfe
"...White and Wilson have restored our faith in Brokers".
* Donnie Masters Serious Pictures
" They make themselves constantly available for questions or concerns and I rate their service second to none."
* Karen Cunningham Pink
"...whatever our demands may be, they\'re always accommodated ."
* Rebecca Atkinson Bartle Bogle Hegarty
"...BBH\'s producers would not be happy to enter into any production without the reassurance of the round the clock service that White and Wilson provide. I cannot recommend them highly enough."
* Carl Grinter Red Post Production
"White and Wilson provide a competitive and comprehensive service to the industry that I have found hard to match."
CLAIMS
"Jean-Claude Van Damme\'s masterful performances are sensitive portrayals of an individual experiencing inner turmoil and alienation".
If you think that\'s an outrageous claim, you should see some of the forms we receive.
Help us deal with insurance claims efficiently by completing all of the information on this form. It\'ll enable us to process your paperwork as quickly as possible.
WEATHER DAY INSURANCE
If you\'re planning a shoot you\'d be wise to consider the additional protection of Weather Insurance, as there\'s never any certainty that you\'ll get sunshine in Scotland or snow in Sydney when you need it.
This is where White and Wilson can help. We can insure your shoot days against any weather condition imaginable, so if the last thing you need is a grey sky in Glamorgan or rough waters in the Red Sea, why not fill in the form below for a no-obligation quotation.
CONTACT
White & Wilson Insurance Brokers Ltd
2nd Floor 55-57 Great Marlborough Street London W1V 1DD
Telephone: 0171 734 2858 Fax: 0171 734 2860 E-mail: info@whiteandwilson.co.uk
Thank you for taking the time to visit our site. Whatever your insurance requirements may be, we\'d welcome the opportunity to provide you with further information or quotations.
Please complete this form: we\'ll be in touch directly.
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11542,'Fri Feb 26 12:35:57 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: More changes',35,11541,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by Mylesc
Hi Myles,
I just had a look at the site. Great job! I hope you weren\'t at it too
late, though I\'m sure you probably were.
Trawling through, I saw the following which need a wee bit of tweaking;
HOME
Put in the group shot underneath, which I sent to you yesterday evening.
PROFILE
Final paragraph should read;
We want you to focus on your project and leave your insurance concerns
to us. Whether you need cover to shoot in the Sahara Desert or for a stage
show in Sydney, we aim to provide peace of mind for productions and events
worldwide.
PRODUCTS & SERVICES
Should read;
Specialising in a service for the Media and Entertainment industry,
our policies operate on a global basis and are tailored to meet each and
every clients\' individual needs.
Selecting one of the following categories will allow you to request
further information via E-mail.
( I know the first sentence is a bit clumsy, but it\'s what they want...)
WEATHER DAY
Two paragraphs only, the first reading;
If you\'re planning a shoot you\'d be wise to consider the additional
protection of Weather Insurance, as there\'s never any certainty that you\'ll
get sunshine in Scotland or snow in Sydney when you need it.
CLIENTS
(on the upload page)
The first sentence would be better reading thus, as it\'s more general:
If you need to send us any information (including photographic evidence)
relating to claim or policy, then you can upload a document from this page.
CONTACT
All categories which appear in \'Products & Services\' should also appear
here with check boxes.
LINKS
1/ Remove \'Post Production Companies\' etc. so we have a list only.
2/ This text would be better, as they haven\'t necessarily insured the new links;
White and Wilson are proud to be associated with the following companies:
NEWS
White and Wilson (!)
_________________________________________________________________________
Then I think we\'re there! Thanks again. Talk later...
Keith
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11543,'Fri Feb 26 12:38:07 1999','DONE',2,11542,'
We just need to upload everything to the new site. I
am waiting on Tim for the details.
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11544,'Mon Mar 1 14:42:40 1999','Last(?) Changes',35,0,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by MylesC
Myles,
here are just a handful of final tweaks to the W & W site.
__________________________________________________________
COMPANY PROFILE
2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence, please remove \'show to\' so it reads;
Whether you need cover for a car shoot in the Sahara Desert or a stage show
in Sydney,...
CLIENTS
2nd paragraph, please change \'insurance company\' to \'insurer\'.
WEATHER DAY
Simply add an exclamation mark onto the end of the first paragraph;
\'...snow in Sydney when you need it!\'
CONTACT
Add \'Address\' to the Email field so it reads \'Email Address\'
Remove \'Estimated annual production costs\' and \'Renewal dates\' fields.
LINKS
Please remove \'Ltd\' from Tele-Cine Ltd link.
__________________________________________________________
Top job mate! Now here\'s a thing; I went to www.whiteandwilson.co.uk
earlier, to find that the site in it\'s old form (i.e. as it was before you
got involved last week) is in place there! What accounts for this? Have
Rebus got hold of the wrong files?
I\'d be grateful if you could give Lesley a call at some point to discuss
with her how the Clients password business will work. She\'ll also need
guidance on how to proceed with the policies database. All I know is that
the info is in Word format.
Many thanks,
Keith
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11545,'Mon Mar 1 16:14:40 1999','Re: Last(?) Changes',2,11544,'
Keith & Lesley,
I have made the changes requested and uploaded the site to
http://www.whiteandwilson.co.uk/. We are still waiting on
Rebus to make a small change before the a form on the Clients
page (upload claim details) works correctly. Note that the
"contact", "claims" and "weather day" forms do not currently
do anything (except give an error message).
I talked briefly to Lesley about the options for providing
on-line access to Customer\'s policy documents. Lesley thinks
that there would probably not be more than 50 policy holders
with up to 10 policies each to worry about. There could be
roughly 10-20 updates per month. Below are a list of alternatives
with some rough figures. Note that these figures are for guidance
only and do not constitute a quotation:
1) Each policy is converted into HTML from Word and uploaded onto
the server (and the script ammended) by Hoop. An annual fee for
this could be up to $4000 (based on similar systems).
2) The same as 1) above, but White and Wilson would be responsible
for converting, uploading and alterating things. This would have less
cost implications than 1) (the only extra cost is that of training)
but W&W would also have responsibility for ensuring that each change
does not compromise the correct functioning of the site.
3) Each policy in entered into a database which is used to automatically
generate reports about each customer\'s policies. The extra cost of
developing this system could be around £2000. The advantages are that
changes can me made off-line to (e.g.) an Access database and then
uploaded in one go. Also, having the data in a database would facilitate
manipulating that data, if W&W think that this would be a useful thing.
We could also look into the possibility of (semi-)automatically converting
the Word documents into database records.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Myles
>Myles,
>here are just a handful of final tweaks to the W & W site.
>__________________________________________________________
>COMPANY PROFILE
>2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence, please remove \'show to\' so it reads;
>Whether you need cover for a car shoot in the Sahara Desert or a stage show
>in Sydney,...
>
>CLIENTS
>2nd paragraph, please change \'insurance company\' to \'insurer\'.
>
>WEATHER DAY
>Simply add an exclamation mark onto the end of the first paragraph;
>\'...snow in Sydney when you need it!\'
>
>CONTACT
>Add \'Address\' to the Email field so it reads \'Email Address\'
>Remove \'Estimated annual production costs\' and \'Renewal dates\' fields.
>
>LINKS
>Please remove \'Ltd\' from Tele-Cine Ltd link.
>__________________________________________________________
>Top job mate! Now here\'s a thing; I went to www.whiteandwilson.co.uk
>earlier, to find that the site in it\'s old form (i.e. as it was before you
>got involved last week) is in place there! What accounts for this? Have
>Rebus got hold of the wrong files?
>I\'d be grateful if you could give Lesley a call at some point to discuss
>with her how the Clients password business will work. She\'ll also need
>guidance on how to proceed with the policies database. All I know is that
>the info is in Word format.
>Many thanks,
>Keith
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11546,'Fri Mar 5 12:47:14 1999','Tidy me?',3,0,'
Is there a chance of site.old and possibly site and even
skeleton being tidied?
yours
timP
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11547,'Wed Mar 10 17:09:14 1999','Re: Re: Last(?) Changes',2,11545,'Posted on behalf of Lesley Hall by MylesC
Yet another little tweek! What would be involved in moving contacts to
the last page, so it encourages people to view the whole site.
Could you let me have the quotes for 1) you making any changes and 2)
the database system. I want to avoid me making changes and possibly
messing the whole thing up at all costs.
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11548,'Wed Mar 10 17:36:02 1999','Re: Re: Re: Last(?) Changes',2,11547,'
>Yet another little tweek! What would be involved in moving contacts to
>the last page, so it encourages people to view the whole site.
>Could you let me have the quotes for 1) you making any changes and 2)
>the database system. I want to avoid me making changes and possibly
>messing the whole thing up at all costs.
Lesley,
I have made this change (it was less than half an hour).
As for the database quote, I will need more information before
I could feel happy making a quote, including:
1) How many records (policies) are there?
( 1a) How many companies are there?)
2) What format are they currently stored in? (Word, I remember)
3) If the format is Word, are they generated from a template?
(basically, so we can work out whether we can automate the process
of getting the data into a database)
4) If we need to re-enter the data into the database, would
White and Wilson be prepared to enter data, or would you want
us to do that?
5) What information is present in each policy? Is there a
standard format? What is the most general case (i.e. including
all sections in all policies).
6) Would it be possible to have a representative sample
of policies for us to study.
In short, we need to work out the data structure of the database
(how many tables, such as "policy", "company", "policy-type" etc
and how many records - i.e. policies).
Let me know and I\'ll put a quote together.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11549,'Wed Mar 10 17:36:03 1999','Re: Re: Re: Last(?) Changes',2,11547,'
>Yet another little tweek! What would be involved in moving contacts to
>the last page, so it encourages people to view the whole site.
>Could you let me have the quotes for 1) you making any changes and 2)
>the database system. I want to avoid me making changes and possibly
>messing the whole thing up at all costs.
Lesley,
I have made this change (it was less than half an hour).
As for the database quote, I will need more information before
I could feel happy making a quote, including:
1) How many records (policies) are there?
( 1a) How many companies are there?)
2) What format are they currently stored in? (Word, I remember)
3) If the format is Word, are they generated from a template?
(basically, so we can work out whether we can automate the process
of getting the data into a database)
4) If we need to re-enter the data into the database, would
White and Wilson be prepared to enter data, or would you want
us to do that?
5) What information is present in each policy? Is there a
standard format? What is the most general case (i.e. including
all sections in all policies).
6) Would it be possible to have a representative sample
of policies for us to study.
In short, we need to work out the data structure of the database
(how many tables, such as "policy", "company", "policy-type" etc
and how many records - i.e. policies).
Let me know and I\'ll put a quote together.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11550,'Wed Mar 10 17:38:59 1999','Links',2,0,'Posted on behalf of Lesley Hall by MylesC
Please add on the following links -
www.rainorshine.com
www.BBH.co.uk
Lesley
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11551,'Wed Mar 10 17:42:10 1999','Year 2000',2,0,'
Keith/Lesley,
I have uploaded the new Year 2000 page.
Please have a look and CHECK IT! In particular, the
phone numbers of some of the companies were a bit mixed
up in the text I got and need checking.
Also, are we sure that 03/31/2000 should be on the list
of problem dates (all the others are in European format,
not American).
Regards,
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11552,'Wed Mar 10 17:42:51 1999','Re: Links',2,11550,'
Done.
>Please add on the following links -
>www.rainorshine.com
>www.BBH.co.uk
>Lesley
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11553,'Wed Mar 10 17:47:37 1999','Timesheets',2,0,'
Keith,
All my timesheets are up. See:
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/pm/cgi-bin/pm_project_report.pl?projects=24&people=6
The total at present is (exactly!) 20 hours.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11554,'Thu Mar 11 18:19:06 1999','Client Queries',35,0,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by Mylesc
Myles, I recieved this from Lesley Hall earlier; could you throw any light
on it?
Thanks.
(Nice job on the layout of the 2000 page by the way).
Keith
---------------------------------------------------
I have finally got Deborah in front of the screen and she has found the
following errors:-
Clients page - Directory listing denied. This virtual directory does
not allow contents to be listed.
Claims page - When you hit send claims form you get the following error
message HTTP Error 405
Weatherday - only lists email address please insert field for telephone
number and mobile.
As you progress through the screens you get the following errors "an
error has occurred n the script on this page. Do you want to continue
running scripts on this page"
On the news page could you insert something like " This is a new website
has anyone got anything to say?" and the facility to leave a message
etc. How does this work?? All the websites I have viewed have email
facilities.
Another question, how do we get listed on search engines???? Existing
customers of ours have been sent a mailshot telling them about the
website but how to attract new business
Please call me asap
Lesley
Keith Hagan
Design & Illustration
25 Straightsmouth Greenwich
London SE10 9LB
Tel/Fax: 0181 853 2156
Email: keith@creedo.demon.co.uk
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11555,'Thu Mar 11 18:35:54 1999','Re: Client Queries',2,11554,'
>Myles, I recieved this from Lesley Hall earlier; could you throw any light
>on it?
>Thanks.
>(Nice job on the layout of the 2000 page by the way).
Ta
>Keith
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>I have finally got Deborah in front of the screen and she has found the
>following errors:-
>Clients page - Directory listing denied. This virtual directory does
>not allow contents to be listed.
All the links in the menu bars to clients work ok, and so do
both the links on the clients page itself. Could they give more
information about what link on what page causes this error?
>Claims page - When you hit send claims form you get the following error
>message HTTP Error 405
Only the 2 forms on the clients page (upload details and see your
reports) work. The other 3 don\'t do anything.
>Weatherday - only lists email address please insert field for telephone
>number and mobile.
I\'m sure we can do that.
>As you progress through the screens you get the following errors "an
>error has occurred n the script on this page. Do you want to continue
>running scripts on this page"
Where, exactly? What is the error message? What version of which browser
is she using?
>On the news page could you insert something like " This is a new website
>has anyone got anything to say?" and the facility to leave a message
>etc. How does this work?? All the websites I have viewed have email
>facilities.
How about the proposed text about and a link to the contact page?
We need to install and setup some scripts to handle the mail. I could
do this, if you like, though is obviously more money.
>Another question, how do we get listed on search engines???? Existing
>customers of ours have been sent a mailshot telling them about the
>website but how to attract new business
Talk to TimJ. We don\'t specialise in web marketing at all, but we can
provide a basic service of registering the site with search engines,
but for more money if it wasn\'t included in the original quote.
>Please call me asap
>Lesley
>Keith Hagan
>Design & Illustration
>25 Straightsmouth Greenwich
>London SE10 9LB
>Tel/Fax: 0181 853 2156
>Email: keith@creedo.demon.co.uk
regards,
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
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11556,'Wed Mar 17 14:13:37 1999','test',1,0,'
test
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11557,'Wed Mar 17 14:14:14 1999','promotion',35,0,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by TimJ
W&W are keen to do some promotion to search engines. Would you give Lesley
a call to discuss this? Her direct line; 0171 534 1743
Ta
Keith
Keith Hagan
Design & Illustration
25 Straightsmouth Greenwich
London SE10 9LB
Tel/Fax: 0181 853 2156
Email: keith@creedo.demon.co.uk
','f','',94,0,0);
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11558,'Wed Mar 17 14:29:37 1999','Re: promotion',1,11557,'
Afam,
>W&W are keen to do some promotion to search engines. Would you give Lesley
>a call to discuss this? Her direct line; 0171 534 1743
I have called her and chatted about search engines, newsgroups, exchanging links etc. she is not very tech literate, so much of my conversation may have washed over her.
The gist of what i said is the same as we are currently putting in out proposals (see www.paneris.co.uk/partners/keyhaven/finsbury/proposal.shtml section 3.3. I gave her a broad price estimate of £750-£1000, but stressed that you get what you pay for, and it varies from customer to customer.
Their site (which we did) is at http://www.whiteandwilson.co.uk/
Keithh manages this account so please keep him up-to-date as well (especially with billing issues).
I hope this is all OK. Can you take it on from here?
cheers
timj
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11559,'Wed Mar 17 15:02:46 1999','More tweaks',35,0,'Posted on behalf of KeithH by Mylesc
Hi Myles,
I received this from Lesley this morning: could you oblige?
_________________________________________________________________
I have checked the 2000 page there was a couple of numbers jumbled up
they should read as follows:-
Fujitsu ICL Computers
Tel: 0990 122 000
http://www.fujitsu-computers.com
IBM
Tel: 0800 973 219
http://www.ibm.com/year2000
I am still getting error messages about running scripts on all pages
that I access. Don\'t understand the question about the browser, is it?
When I log on, I click on the W and then enter our address. Please
remember I am a complete novice and need it spelt out in words on one
syllable.
Another link just confirmed is www.MMHL.co.uk who are one of our
clients
Thanks
Lesley
___________________________________________________________________
The browser Lesley is using is AOL 3.01 for windows; using this she keeps
getting error messages re; scripts.
One other gremlin that seems to have crept in is that the links from the
product categories on the \'Products and Services\' page to the \'Contact\'
page don\'t work. An error message says \'access to virtual directory
denied\'.
The other error messages she encounters (error code 405) reflects the fact
that the email scripts have not been set up on \'Contact\' \'Weatherday\' and
\'Claims\'. The fields have been confirmed as OK. Can we go ahead and set
these forms up?
Just a couple more things; forget about setting up a form for comments etc.
on the \'News\' page. They\'ve decided against this for now.
Finally, they are keen to get cracking with setting up the database for the
password protected areas. Would you be able to go and see Lesley at some
point soon to discuss this? If you could call her that\'d be great.
Thanks Myles...
Keith
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11560,'Wed Mar 17 15:22:04 1999','Re: More tweaks',2,11559,'
>Hi Myles,
>I received this from Lesley this morning: could you oblige?
>_________________________________________________________________
>I have checked the 2000 page there was a couple of numbers jumbled up
>they should read as follows:-
>Fujitsu ICL Computers
>Tel: 0990 122 000
>http://www.fujitsu-computers.com
>IBM
>Tel: 0800 973 219
>http://www.ibm.com/year2000
Thanks Lesley. Changes done.
>I am still getting error messages about running scripts on all pages
>that I access. Don\'t understand the question about the browser, is it?
>When I log on, I click on the W and then enter our address. Please
>remember I am a complete novice and need it spelt out in words on one
>syllable.
>Another link just confirmed is www.MMHL.co.uk who are one of our
>clients
Done.
>Thanks
>Lesley
>___________________________________________________________________
>
>The browser Lesley is using is AOL 3.01 for windows; using this she keeps
>getting error messages re; scripts.
I am non-plussed by this. AOL browsers were always known for being a bit
behind the times as far as frames, javascript and other fancy bits were
concerned (they now use Microsoft IE). I could put some time and effort
into this if you would like, but in all the times I\'ve used the javascript
on this site before, I\'ve never heard of a problem before. How common is this
kind of error when you use this browser for general surfing. Should we
spend money on worrying about it?
>One other gremlin that seems to have crept in is that the links from the
>product categories on the \'Products and Services\' page to the \'Contact\'
>page don\'t work. An error message says \'access to virtual directory
>denied\'.
Really stuck with this one. I can see nothing wrong the code and can\'t
reproduce the error. I am waiting on Keith to do some more investigating.
>The other error messages she encounters (error code 405) reflects the fact
>that the email scripts have not been set up on \'Contact\' \'Weatherday\' and
>\'Claims\'. The fields have been confirmed as OK. Can we go ahead and set
>these forms up?
Certainly. That will take about a day.
>Just a couple more things; forget about setting up a form for comments etc.
>on the \'News\' page. They\'ve decided against this for now.
OK.
>Finally, they are keen to get cracking with setting up the database for the
>password protected areas. Would you be able to go and see Lesley at some
>point soon to discuss this? If you could call her that\'d be great.
I\'ll have a chat with her first.
>
>Thanks Myles...
>Keith
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11561,'Thu Mar 18 11:18:18 1999','Re: Re: promotion',105,11558,'Posted on behalf of Afam by TimJ
I\'m uncertain if you want me to call her or take no action yet?
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11562,'Thu Mar 18 11:21:10 1999','Re: Re: More tweaks',1,11560,'
>>The other error messages she encounters (error code 405) reflects the fact
>>that the email scripts have not been set up on \'Contact\' \'Weatherday\' and
>>\'Claims\'. The fields have been confirmed as OK. Can we go ahead and set
>>these forms up?
>Certainly. That will take about a day.
I have written the scripts, so it should be a matter of just getting perl to work.
timj
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11563,'Thu Mar 18 11:21:47 1999','Re: Re: Re: promotion',1,11561,'
>I\'m uncertain if you want me to call her or take no action yet?
yes please. She is expecting a call. Is this OK?
timj
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11564,'Thu Mar 18 11:55:27 1999','Re: Re: More tweaks',2,11560,'
[snip]
>>One other gremlin that seems to have crept in is that the links from the
>>product categories on the \'Products and Services\' page to the \'Contact\'
>>page don\'t work. An error message says \'access to virtual directory
>>denied\'.
>Really stuck with this one. I can see nothing wrong the code and can\'t
>reproduce the error. I am waiting on Keith to do some more investigating.
Doh! I was looking in the menu frame rather than the main frame.
Now sorted.
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11565,'Thu Mar 25 14:39:20 1999','Re: Re: More tweaks',2,11560,'
>>The browser Lesley is using is AOL 3.01 for windows; using this she keeps
>>getting error messages re; scripts.
>I am non-plussed by this. AOL browsers were always known for being a bit
>behind the times as far as frames, javascript and other fancy bits were
>concerned (they now use Microsoft IE). I could put some time and effort
>into this if you would like, but in all the times I\'ve used the javascript
>on this site before, I\'ve never heard of a problem before. How common is this
>kind of error when you use this browser for general surfing. Should we
>spend money on worrying about it?
Sorted! It turned out that it was because the name of the images (i.e. the
img tag\'s name attribute) was \'2000\'. I have changed this to \'y2000\' and it
now works! Moral: don\'t start an image name with an digit if you don\'t want
AOL to balk at it.
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11566,'Thu Mar 25 14:41:04 1999','Re: More tweaks',2,11559,'Posted on behalf of Lesley Hall by MylesC
Further to my meeting with Myles today, I am going to email him about 10
clients documents and he will get back to me with a price on how long he
thinks it is going to take him to convert into hmtl files and re-format.
Ideally he will then train me (could be a long process) to do this
myself for future clients.
In the meantime as I was running late for another meeting I forget to
tell him about the following links to our website which as per usual I
need on asap:
Hiscox Underwriting Limited - www.hiscox.com
Loss Adjuster - Crawford THG - www.crawford-thg.com
Post production company SVC Television - www.svctv.co.uk
Lesley
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11567,'Thu Mar 25 14:41:33 1999','Re: Re: More tweaks',2,11566,'
>In the meantime as I was running late for another meeting I forget to
>tell him about the following links to our website which as per usual I
>need on asap:
>Hiscox Underwriting Limited - www.hiscox.com
>Loss Adjuster - Crawford THG - www.crawford-thg.com
>Post production company SVC Television - www.svctv.co.uk
>Lesley
Done
Myles
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11568,'Wed Mar 31 13:58:46 1999','forms',1,0,'
these are now working - took 2 hours
timj
','f','',94,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
95,'auction','auction Project',895,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/auction/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/auction/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11569,'Mon Feb 22 16:05:58 1999','Auction Project',3,0,'
James,
I have entered idealnet into the paneris system,
see http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/idealnet/
I have created a project called auction,
see http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/idealnet/auction/
I have done a rough breakdown of the project which comes to 166 hours.
I misinformed you as to our rates: they are 40gbp not 45gbp :)
So the initial price would be 166*40 = 6640.
Please take this as an estimate, as the final price will
depend upon the state and structure of the data.
(Please send an example asap).
You have two options:
Fixed price or take a \'hands on\' approach, where you monitor the spend during the project and cut your cloth accordingly.
For fixed price jobs we invoice for 25% on sign-off of
the specification, 25% on sign-off of prototype and 50% on handover.
For \'hands-on\' jobs we invoice monthly.
Hope to hear from you soon.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',95,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11570,'Mon Feb 22 17:09:48 1999','End Customer',3,0,'
James,
You say the end customer already has a website.
Please send me the address, if you have any worries
about us approaching the customer directly please be assured by our rules (http://www.paneris.co.uk/rules.shtml).
yours
TimP
','f','',95,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
96,'idealnet','idealnet Interface',896,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/idealnet/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/idealnet/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11571,'Thu Feb 18 19:25:24 1999','Collective of Freelances - re: our telecon',3,0,'
James,
Idealnet sounds like our perfect customer.
We have been in a relationship with i-way for two years, during which time
we have taken on a number of their end customer sites.
Please look at our http://www.paneris.co.uk/sales/introduction.shtml
for an introduction to our skills and direction.
I believe that the fit between your requirements and our skill is high
and would wish to form a long term, possibly formal, relationship with yourselves.
Hoping to take things further,
Tim Pizey
01865 721131
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11572,'Thu Feb 18 20:09:59 1999','Ideal Internet - Freelance Questionnaire',3,0,'Posted on behalf of JamesDK by TimP
Thank you, for your response to our enquiry for Freelance work.
I have prepared a small questionnaire to gather more information about
yourself, so that I can target the appropriate work to your skills. If you
could complete this, and, possibly, send me some examples of your work it
would be very much appreciated. Do not worry if you have not got the
particular skills for a question, I would not expect an illustrator to have
any knowledge in JavaScript for example, all skills are required so be as
honest as possible.
Also, I have included a sample proposal for a project. I would be interested
in hearing your solutions to the problem. I think it is quite challenging!
Questionnaire
1- Which of the following skills apply to you?
a - Graphic Design
b- Illustration
c- Perl / cgi scripting
d- Javascript
e- Java Programming
f- Web Page Design
g- Database integration to Web Pages
h- other (please state)
2- Have you created your own graphics for the internet? Y/N (if yes please
send examples)
3- Which of the following graphics packages are you skilled with?
a- Adobe Photoshop
b- Corel Draw
c- Macromedia Fireworks
d- Paint Shop Pro
e- Adobe Illustrator
f- Metacreations Painter
g- Other (please state)
h- None
4- Which Operating Systems have you experience of?
a- Windows NT 4.0
b- Windows 95/98
c- Linux
d- Unix
e- Other (please state)
f- None
5- Which Web development tools have you used?
a- Frontpage
b- Pagemill
c- Hotdog
d- Home Page
e- Dream weaver
f- Standard HTML
g- Active Server Pages
h- Other (Please State)
i- None
6- Which Programming / Scripting Languages are you conversant with?
a- Perl
b- Javascript
c- Java
d- VBScript
e- Visual Basic
f- ActiveX
g- C
h- C++
i- Pascal / Delphi
j- 4GL
k- Other (please state)
l- None
7- Which Database applications do you specialise in?
a- Microsoft SQL server
b- Oracle
c- DB2
d- Visual Basic
e- Fox Pro
f- Access
g- DBase
h- Paradox
i- Approach
j- Infomix
k- Ingres
l- other (please state)
m- None
8- Do you have Ecommerce programming experience? Y/N
9- What would be the time scale for generating the content for a 10 page
website?
10- What do you Charge for you services? (Please state whether it is a cost
per hour or per day)
---Sample Project---
Again do not be to worried if you do not know where to start on the project,
it is only included for demonstrating the intricacies of projects performed
by us. We require every aspect of internet skills from graphics to
programming.
--Specification for Auction Site--
There is a cycle of four auctions on the go at all times - with a week
between the closing dates. (Therefore a quarter of the database is updated
every week)
The company generates lots of pages with details of the items under general
classification. There is no search engine on the auction site.
Visitors place blind bids via email which are put against postal bids
Visitors register on the site and payment by credit card is accepted - but
only when their bid is successful. The transaction is done at head office.
At present they have to visit pages, note the details and send an email bid.
They do not get any confirmation of the success of their message - only
notification when they win the bidding
Currently the action details are conveyed into the central system in flat
files.
There is no desire to have a fully automated interactive on-line auction
Their client has a seperate ISP that hosts their site, and they want to keep
---What is Required--
There is a FoxPro database, existing, with product details and reference to
which auction is for- this can be updated by the client.
There should be a search engine which will generate the html pages in
response to a request for specific types of item. This would be backed up by
an auto - generating process which would be capable of browsing all items in
the auction. Where images of the items are available, it would be worth
including them on the pages.
After registering (or logging on via membership), the visitor should be able
to browse the generated pages to select items to add to a shopping basket,
noting a level of bid on each.
The visitor should either see the basket while browsing, or have an on
screen summary of the contents / value so far. They should be able to delete
from the basket before posting it.
When the visitor finishes bidding they should be able to post the result.
The server should send them immediate confirmation of their bidding. It
should retain the bid details and perhaps, also email every bidder to notify
them of the result of the auction at its conclusion.
I hope to here from you as soon as possible with your responses. Please feel
free to include any information that you think is relevant to the roles
offered.
Regards
James Den Kaat
General Manager
Ideal Internet Services
freelance@idealnet.co.uk
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11573,'Thu Feb 18 20:10:59 1999','Re: Collective of Freelances - re: our telecon',3,11571,'
In message <3.0.3.32.19990213140807.0095da08@popmail.dircon.co.uk> you wrote:
I thought I\'d better fill in a bit more for your reference:
> >c- Perl / cgi scripting
> Myself, TimJ, MylesC, WilliamC, WilliamR, RachelH, KiraB are all
> HIGHLY proficient in perl, having a combined experience of over 20 years.
No, I\'ve no Perl, I\'ve done CGI in C. But not much. Servlets/JSP is my real
Thing. Kira doesn\'t have Perl either. We didn\'t put it on our CVs did we?
> >g- Database integration to Web Pages
> We keep our corporate timesheets on a database which we conected to the web
> using perl.
> We (TimJ, WilliamC, MylesC) completed http://www.iglu.com/ in November
> using our own perl middleware. (5 stars from the FT and NetProfit)
>
> We would now use java in the form of webmacro (http://www.webmacro.org/).
We have *lots* of database integration experience. Preferred choice is Java
to a JDBC-connectable database.
> >f- Standard HTML
> >
> You mean just using an editor?
> I use Programmers File Editor, WilliamC is an Emacs guru.
This is my preferred way of working - text editing the HTML or generating it
from code. I don\'t trust authoring tools. I use nedit under Linux, Zap under
RISC OS (the best anywhere, but unfortunately is - hardly anywhere).
> >g- Active Server Pages
> >
> TimJ has, as I believe have RachelH and KiraB.
> RachelH and KiraB have extensive experience of Java Server Pages (JSP).
Yup.
> >6- Which Programming / Scripting Languages are you conversant with?
> >
> >a- Perl
> Very conversant.
None here.
>
> >
> >b- Javascript
> >
> No problem.
No experience (but I\'m sure I could learn!)
> >c- Java
> We have some advanced programmers, some beginners.
Both of us pretty advanced now.
> >d- VBScript
> >
> JackM
Us too. (But we hate it.)
> >e- Visual Basic
> >
> JackM
> >f- ActiveX
> >
> AlexH is hot
Inasmuch as you use it in ASP I have this too. Hateful stuff.
> >g- C
> >
> All of us, to varying levels of skill
We\'re both pretty good at this...
> >h- C++
> All of us, to varying levels of skill
And I\'ve got lots of exp. in this too.
> SQL known by all.
Yes.
> >7- Which Database applications do you specialise in?
> >
> >a- Microsoft SQL server
> >
> >b- Oracle
> >
> >c- DB2
> >
> >d- Visual Basic
> >
> >e- Fox Pro
> >
> >f- Access
> >
> >g- DBase
> >
> >h- Paradox
> >
> >i- Approach
> >
> >j- Infomix
> >
> >k- Ingres
> >
> >l- other (please state)
> >
> >m- None
> >
> Access Postgress, mySQL, RDMS, FoxPro, however we tend to interact with
> DB\'s through ODBC and perl or java.
> This means that we can \'deal with\' Oracle, infomix etc without detailed
> knowledge of their interface.
Yes. Access isn\'t suitable for anything serious BTW. The JDBC-ODBC bridge is
not up to the job of serious stuff either. There is a good Class4 JDBC driver
for SQLServer though, and Oracle are *bound* to have a definitive one. We use
Postgres (that\'s the correct spelling BTW) and have no problems with it at
all.
(Oh, and it\'s "Informix" as well. :-))
I used to use Oracle in the dim and distant past with the Civil Service, but
no recent experience, except in failing to install it on NT! Once installed
though, on a good system (look at Raw Iron) it\'s pretty much the definitive
choice.
> >8- Do you have Ecommerce programming experience? Y/N
> >
> We have doen a number of ecommerce sites, from email to visa.
Oh yes. (And know better than to try iCat or Siteserver Commerce.)
---- Example site
> Photographs have references in the DB and are named in a consistent
> fashion.
Why not store the photographs in the database itself? We\'ve done this quite
successfully. No naming system and separate files to maintain.
> 2. Decide on OS and DB for web.
> This may be a problem if we are not in control of the server.
>
> 3. Write template pages in ASP/JSP/Webmacro/Paneris Perl Templates
My preference is for what we already knows works: JSP on either NT, Linux or
A.N.Other Unix. Database engine must have class4 JDBC driver and be able to
handle blob fields if we want to store photographs and large bodies of text.
SQLServer, Postgres, Oracle would be fine. Access would be inadequate. No
opinion about other engines.
> 4. Write search script (similar to Iglu property search).
>
> 5. Write \'shopping basket\', similar to bloomsbury/iglu.
>
> 6. Write bid script.
>
>
> I hope that the above isn\'t too sketchy.
> The job is a big one but easy, especially as it shares shopping basket,
> login and search with iglu which we have just finished.
It\'s all pretty straightforward, assuming we\'re not badly constrained by the
system we have to run it on.
> I would hope to become Idealnet\'s point of contact for the Paneris
> Collective.
"You will be assimilated..." :-)
--
Rachel
http://www.enlarion.demon.co.uk/
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11574,'Thu Feb 18 20:12:23 1999','Re: Collective of Freelances - re: our telecon',120,11571,'Posted on behalf of kirab by TimP
In message <3.0.3.32.19990213140807.0095da08@popmail.dircon.co.uk> you wrote:
> Hi James,
> At 14:54 12/02/99 -0000, you wrote:
> >4- Which Operating Systems have you experience of?
> >
> >a- Windows NT 4.0
> >
> >b- Windows 95/98
> >
> >c- Linux
> >
> >d- Unix
> >
> >e- Other (please state)
> >
> >f- None
> >
> a-d plus BeOS, VMS, Windows 3.1, Windows NT 3.5
Rachel and I have RISC OS, and I ported Minix once upon a time.
I\'m a level 2 MCP, if that helps, with Windows 95 and NT4.
I\'ve worked on JavaOS and the ELKS too.
> >5- Which Web development tools have you used?
>
> >f- Standard HTML
> >
> You mean just using an editor?
> I use Programmers File Editor, WilliamC is an Emacs guru.
I use vi and !Zap.
> >g- Active Server Pages
> >
> TimJ has, as I believe have RachelH and KiraB.
> RachelH and KiraB have extensive experience of Java Server Pages (JSP).
ASP is evil, but we can really rock with it.
> >c- Java
> We have some advanced programmers, some beginners.
I\'ve written Java you... people wouldn\'t believe.
Rachel\'s written Java that *I* wouldn\'t believe.
> >d- VBScript
> >
> JackM
Rachel too. Et moi.
> >e- Visual Basic
> >
> JackM
And myself.
> >f- ActiveX
> >
> AlexH is hot
I can write ActiveX COM objects, if really pushed.
> >g- C
> >
> All of us, to varying levels of skill
I wrote an OS in it, does that count?
> >h- C++
> All of us, to varying levels of skill
Rachel is a C++ diva.
> >i- Pascal / Delphi
> Not recent
I\'m trained in Pascal, but can\'t see any earthly reason to use it.
> >k- Other (please state)
> >
> SQL known by all.
LOGO and PILOT :-)
And Rachel knows COBOL, though she\'s loathe to admit it.
> >7- Which Database applications do you specialise in?
> >a- Microsoft SQL server
Yup.
> >d- Visual Basic
...is not a database application. Who wrote this questionnaire?
> >e- Fox Pro
Yup.
> >f- Access
Yup.
> >g- DBase
Yup, ages ago.
> >l- other (please state)
PostgreSQL, the successor to Ingres.
> Access Postgress, mySQL, RDMS, FoxPro, however we tend to interact with
> DB\'s through ODBC and perl or java. This means that we can \'deal with\'
> Oracle, infomix etc without detailed knowledge of their interface.
> >8- Do you have Ecommerce programming experience? Y/N
> >
> We have doen a number of ecommerce sites, from email to visa.
As have Rachel and I.
kira.
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11575,'Thu Feb 18 20:15:08 1999','Re: Collective of Freelances - re: our telecon',3,11571,'
Tim,
>>10- What do you Charge for you services? (Please state whether it is a
cost
>>per hour or per day)
>>
>Our hourly rate for programmers is 45.00 per day, graphics artists
>will work for less.
>Our daily rate is 250 per day.
>We are happy to give fixed prices for well specified projects.
I strongly feel that you need to get this correct.
Our hourly rate is £40. I you would like to charge more, then expand any
quotes or estimates your give. We have only just changed our rates to £40,
my customers would not stomach another change.
also
40 * 7.5 = 300 = daily rate. but I tend to always quote in hours, even for
onsite work where I consider traveling time is chargeable.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11576,'Thu Feb 18 20:16:41 1999','Re: Ideal Internet - Freelance Questionnaire',3,11572,'
I was impressed with your reply to my recent questionnaire. The auction site
is an actual project we are undertaking and I would like your company to get
involved.
I have added some details to your assumptions, (these are still not full
details as we are waiting our client to forward them to us). My responses
are marked with a *
Assumptions:
1. The FoxPro database is not connected to the web, but housed in the
clients offices. * This is correct, the client must be able to update a
portion of the database every week. I should be able to get hold of some
test data for you.
2. The structure of the webdatabase may not be identical to the FoxPro db.
*This is also true, although the final database layout has yet to be
decided.
Steps:
1. Write dbupload script, which is run creates a new database definition in
SQL.
This is run against the FoxPro database everytime that the data is
published.
Photographs have references in the DB and are named in a consistent
fashion.
2. Decide on OS and DB for web.
This may be a problem if we are not in control of the server. * The OS
will be Linux, I am open to suggestions for the database. The database will
have to update approx. 2000 records per week.
3. Write template pages in ASP/JSP/Webmacro/Paneris Perl Templates
4. Write search script (similar to Iglu property search).
5. Write \'shopping basket\', similar to bloomsbury/iglu.
6. Write bid script.
I hope that the above isn\'t too sketchy.
The job is a big one but easy, especially as it shares shopping basket,
login and search with iglu which we have just finished.
I would hope to become Idealnet\'s point of contact for the Paneris
Collective.
* You say that the job is a big one, how long would it take and could you
give a \'ball park\' figure of cost for the job.
Please give me a ring on (01942) 209578 so that we can discuss the
situattion further.
regards
Jim Den Kaat
General Manager
Ideal Internet Services
support@idealnet.co.uk
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11577,'Thu Feb 18 20:18:49 1999','Re: Ideal Internet - Freelance Questionnaire',3,11572,'
Hi James,
At 14:54 12/02/99 -0000, you wrote:
>Thank you, for your response to our enquiry for Freelance work.
>
>I have prepared a small questionnaire to gather more information about
>yourself, so that I can target the appropriate work to your skills. If you
>could complete this, and, possibly, send me some examples of your work it
>would be very much appreciated. Do not worry if you have not got the
>particular skills for a question, I would not expect an illustrator to have
>any knowledge in JavaScript for example, all skills are required so be as
>honest as possible.
>
>Also, I have included a sample proposal for a project. I would be interested
>in hearing your solutions to the problem. I think it is quite challenging!
>
I am reponding on behalf of the PanEris co-operative.
Within the co-operative we have all the skills you could possibly want :)
Me (TimP) - Programming since 1982
TimJ - Freelance web developer since 1995
MylesC - NHS webmaster
WilliamC - AI guru
WilliamS - Studying CS at Cambridge
RachelH - Allround Grrl, Linux hacker
KiraB - Linux hacker, Java guru
ColinR - Computer literate graphics designer
DanielH - Macromedia Flash expert
(Plus more loosly associated programmers, designers and Quality Assurance people).
>
>
>Questionnaire
>
>1- Which of the following skills apply to you?
>
>a - Graphic Design
Me no, but 9 graphics artists are within the co-operative
>
>b- Illustration
The distinction escapes me but DanielH has a BA in Fine Art from Ruskin.
>
>c- Perl / cgi scripting
Myself, TimJ, MylesC, WilliamC, WilliamR, RachelH, KiraB are all
HIGHLY proficient in perl, having a combined experience of over 20 years.
>
>d- Javascript
Not a problem. Most of us have some experience, some have written whole sites.
>
>e- Java Programming
>
We have written chat applets, greeting cards, servlets, DB servers,
you name it.
>f- Web Page Design
All the designers (9) and even the programmers have deisgned sites.
My design skills are poor but I know a man/woman who can.
>
>g- Database integration to Web Pages
We keep our corporate timesheets on a database which we conected to the web using perl.
We (TimJ, WilliamC, MylesC) completed http://www.iglu.com/ in November
using our own perl middleware. (5 stars from the FT and NetProfit)
We would now use java in the form of webmacro (http://www.webmacro.org/).
>
>h- other (please state)
>
I have experience in SGML, TimJ has Cobol, williamC has ML, LISP, PROLOG, Godel, AI, etc etc.
MylesC has run a large NHS website.
Rachel has run a number of sites for http://www.epinet.co.uk/ customers.
>
>
>2- Have you created your own graphics for the internet? Y/N (if yes please
>send examples)
>
All 9 of the artists have.
See http://www.bloomsbury.com/, http://www.iglu.com/
I havn\'t.
>
>
>3- Which of the following graphics packages are you skilled with?
>
>a- Adobe Photoshop
>
>b- Corel Draw
>
>c- Macromedia Fireworks
>
>d- Paint Shop Pro
>
>e- Adobe Illustrator
>
>f- Metacreations Painter
>
>g- Other (please state)
>
>h- None
>
All of the above.
DanielH is particularly proficient with macromedia Flash.
>
>
>4- Which Operating Systems have you experience of?
>
>a- Windows NT 4.0
>
>b- Windows 95/98
>
>c- Linux
>
>d- Unix
>
>e- Other (please state)
>
>f- None
>
a-d plus BeOS, VMS, Windows 3.1, Windows NT 3.5
>
>
>
>
>5- Which Web development tools have you used?
>
>a- Frontpage
ColinR has.
>
>b- Pagemill
>
Don\'t know
>c- Hotdog
>
Tried it years ago
>d- Home Page
>
Don\'t know
>e- Dream weaver
>
Editor of choice for me and MylesC
>f- Standard HTML
>
You mean just using an editor?
I use Programmers File Editor, WilliamC is an Emacs guru.
>g- Active Server Pages
>
TimJ has, as I believe have RachelH and KiraB.
RachelH and KiraB have extensive experience of Java Server Pages (JSP).
>h- Other (Please State)
We are currently focussed on using java with webmacro.
Our current office site is \'self maintaining\' ie it is auto-generated when
anything is added.
>i- None
>
>
>
>6- Which Programming / Scripting Languages are you conversant with?
>
>a- Perl
Very conversant.
>
>b- Javascript
>
No problem.
>c- Java
We have some advanced programmers, some beginners.
>
>d- VBScript
>
JackM
>e- Visual Basic
>
JackM
>f- ActiveX
>
AlexH is hot
>g- C
>
All of us, to varying levels of skill
>h- C++
All of us, to varying levels of skill
>
>i- Pascal / Delphi
Not recent
>
>j- 4GL
>
Not a problem.
>k- Other (please state)
>
SQL known by all.
>l- None
>
>
>
>7- Which Database applications do you specialise in?
>
>a- Microsoft SQL server
>
>b- Oracle
>
>c- DB2
>
>d- Visual Basic
>
>e- Fox Pro
>
>f- Access
>
>g- DBase
>
>h- Paradox
>
>i- Approach
>
>j- Infomix
>
>k- Ingres
>
>l- other (please state)
>
>m- None
>
Access Postgress, mySQL, RDMS, FoxPro, however we tend to interact with DB\'s through ODBC and perl or java.
This means that we can \'deal with\' Oracle, infomix etc without detailed knowledge of their interface.
>
>
>
>
>8- Do you have Ecommerce programming experience? Y/N
>
We have doen a number of ecommerce sites, from email to visa.
>
>
>9- What would be the time scale for generating the content for a 10 page
>website?
>
10 Minutes to 10 days :)
It really does depend.
The longer one spends the better the page.
Realistically the styling can take a few days and longer in elapsed time as one iterates over the design with the client.
when the syling is approved the production of new pages can sometimes be automated.
>
>
>10- What do you Charge for you services? (Please state whether it is a cost
>per hour or per day)
>
Our hourly rate for programmers is 45.00 per day, graphics artists
will work for less.
Our daily rate is 250 per day.
We are happy to give fixed prices for well specified projects.
>
>
>---Sample Project---
>
>Again do not be to worried if you do not know where to start on the project,
>it is only included for demonstrating the intricacies of projects performed
>by us. We require every aspect of internet skills from graphics to
>programming.
>
>--Specification for Auction Site--
>
>There is a cycle of four auctions on the go at all times - with a week
>between the closing dates. (Therefore a quarter of the database is updated
>every week)
>
>The company generates lots of pages with details of the items under general
>classification. There is no search engine on the auction site.
>
>Visitors place blind bids via email which are put against postal bids
>
>Visitors register on the site and payment by credit card is accepted - but
>only when their bid is successful. The transaction is done at head office.
>
>At present they have to visit pages, note the details and send an email bid.
>
>They do not get any confirmation of the success of their message - only
>notification when they win the bidding
>
>Currently the action details are conveyed into the central system in flat
>files.
>
>There is no desire to have a fully automated interactive on-line auction
>
>Their client has a seperate ISP that hosts their site, and they want to keep
>
>
>
>---What is Required--
>
>There is a FoxPro database, existing, with product details and reference to
>which auction is for- this can be updated by the client.
>
>There should be a search engine which will generate the html pages in
>response to a request for specific types of item. This would be backed up by
>an auto - generating process which would be capable of browsing all items in
>the auction. Where images of the items are available, it would be worth
>including them on the pages.
>
>After registering (or logging on via membership), the visitor should be able
>to browse the generated pages to select items to add to a shopping basket,
>noting a level of bid on each.
>
>The visitor should either see the basket while browsing, or have an on
>screen summary of the contents / value so far. They should be able to delete
>from the basket before posting it.
>
>When the visitor finishes bidding they should be able to post the result.
>
>The server should send them immediate confirmation of their bidding. It
>should retain the bid details and perhaps, also email every bidder to notify
>them of the result of the auction at its conclusion.
>
>
Assumptions:
1. The Foxpro database is not connected to the web, but housed in the
clients offices.
2. The structure of the webdatabase may not be identical to the foxpro db.
Steps:
1. Write dbupload script, which is run creates a new database definition in SQL.
This is run against the FoxPro database everytime that the data is published.
Photographs have references in the DB and are named in a consistent fashion.
2. Decide on OS and DB for web.
This may be a problem if we are not in control of the server.
3. Write template pages in ASP/JSP/Webmacro/Paneris Perl Templates
4. Write search script (similar to Iglu property search).
5. Write \'shopping basket\', similar to bloomsbury/iglu.
6. Write bid script.
I hope that the above isn\'t too sketchy.
The job is a big one but easy, especially as it shares shopping basket, login and search with iglu which we have just finished.
>
>I hope to here from you as soon as possible with your responses. Please feel
>free to include any information that you think is relevant to the roles
>offered.
>
>
I would hope to become Idealnet\'s point of contact for the Paneris Collective.
yours
Tim Pizey
01865 721131
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11578,'Thu Feb 18 20:28:04 1999','Auction Project telecon',3,0,'
James,
To firm up our telephone conversation.
I will prepare a proposal using the paneris systems by Monday which will be housed under your new partner node
(http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/idealnet/) at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/idealnet/auction/ .
This message is a call for Paneris Memebers to register an
interest in the project which I will project manage.
I have posted all the email trafic todate on the message board. (but got some of the ordering wrong :()
I insist on using the message board for all project emails,
but am happy to post them for people who email direct to me.
You are particularly keen to outsource the database/cgi side of the project to us but may wish to use your own inhouse designers. If this does happen then you will let us know
the hours booked so that we can have a view of the whole project.
You are not particularly interested in Quality Assurance but our normal review procedures will be used.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11579,'Thu Feb 18 21:14:33 1999','Re: Re: Collective of Freelances - re: our telecon',1,11574,'
>And Rachel knows COBOL, though she\'s loathe to admit it.
01 ws-date pic 9(6) comp.
just so you know you are not alone :-)
timj
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11580,'Thu Feb 18 21:27:02 1999','Re: Re: Collective of Freelances - re: our telecon',4,11574,'
>In message <3.0.3.32.19990213140807.0095da08@popmail.dircon.co.uk> you wrote:
>> >c- Java
>> We have some advanced programmers, some beginners.
>I\'ve written Java you... people wouldn\'t believe.
Don\'t bet on it ... I worked with someone who wrote
significant portions of kaffe and he couldn\'t believe
my Java. :-)
I also wrote serialisation and RMI for 1.0beta, in a spare
afternoon when I was bored.
(Damn, why I am I rising to this obvious troll??? :-) )
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11581,'Thu Feb 18 21:31:43 1999','Re: Re: Re: Collective of Freelances - re: our telecon',4,11580,'
>I also wrote serialisation and RMI for 1.0beta, in a spare
>afternoon when I was bored.
Furthermore, at one point it used ASN.1\'s BER for the
encoding, so was OSI-compatible. (Though I\'m kind of
glad Sun didn\'t go that way when they belatedly decided
serialisation was a good idea ...)
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11582,'Thu Feb 18 21:53:17 1999','Re: Re: Ideal Internet - Freelance Questionnaire',31,11577,'
>>
>>Questionnaire
>>
>>1- Which of the following skills apply to you?
>>
>>a - Graphic Design
No
>>b- Illustration
No
>>c- Perl / cgi scripting
Yes, more "C/C++" than Perl though ...
>>d- Javascript
Specialist. See the Jan. and Feb. 1999 issues of "Web Techniques" for my articles. Other articles forthcoming.
>>e- Java Programming
More applications than applets. Multithreaded servers, filters, etc. Mostly web-based.
>>f- Web Page Design
As a programmer rather than artist (my artistic skills are negligible!)
>>g- Database integration to Web Pages
Yes, using JDBC and ODBC
>>h- other (please state)
>>
>>2- Have you created your own graphics for the internet? Y/N (if yes please
>>send examples)
No
>>3- Which of the following graphics packages are you skilled with?
Only PSP. I\'m not really an artist ;(
>>4- Which Operating Systems have you experience of?
>>
>>a- Windows NT 4.0
NT4 is my development OS of choice. Have used 4/3.1 for 3 years.
>>b- Windows 95/98
Used to develop under 95. No problem with it.
>>c- Linux
Dabble
>>d- Unix
No
>>e- Other (please state)
>f- None
>>
>>
>>5- Which Web development tools have you used?
>>
>>a- Frontpage
No
>>
>>b- Pagemill
No
>>c- Hotdog
No
>>d- Home Page
No
>>e- Dream weaver
Yes, but prefer to hand-code
>>f- Standard HTML
Yes, using Visual Studio IDE in a perfect world. Also DHTML and scriptlets.
>>g- Active Server Pages
Some. Last worked with ASP for a Java web-based front-end in September 98
>>6- Which Programming / Scripting Languages are you conversant with?
>>
>>a- Perl
Some
>>
>>b- Javascript
Highly proficient.
>>c- Java
Proficient.
>>d- VBScript
No problem
>>e- Visual Basic
Some GUI front-end in last job (ended today). "No problem", although I\'m not wild about it ...
>>f- ActiveX
Lots. Particularly ATL. The last commercial package I wrote was a screensaver creator ("Fandango") which included an ActiveX control for web-based screeensavers (March 98). It got a full 5 stars in "Personal Computer World" and was described as "Fandango-tastic!" I have just completed a 3 month contract in Wiltshire working on an ATL-based 3-tier distributed coordination system.
>>i- Pascal / Delphi
None
>>j- 4GL
No
>>k- Other (please state)
Assembler, dBase4, BASIC, ... dead skills!
>SQL known by all.
SQL is fine.
>>7- Which Database applications do you specialise in?
>>
>>a- Microsoft SQL server
Yes
>>b- Oracle
No. Some configuration.
>>c- DB2
No
>>d- Visual Basic
Some. See above
>>e- Fox Pro
No
>>f- Access
Some. I\'ve tended to work at the ODBC level, so not a problem
>>g- DBase
Worked at Harwell managing new software development for dBase4-based system (NRPB, 1994)
>>h- Paradox
No
>>i- Approach
No
>>j- Infomix
No
>>k- Ingres
No
>>l- other (please state)
Lots of experience of Sybase (v4 and v10/11). Oversaw project management of the port from v4 to v11 for Bank of Scotland under auspices of Ait, Henley Oct. 97 to June 98.
>>8- Do you have Ecommerce programming experience? Y/N
Worked on homebanking project at Ait June 98 for major high-street bank. OFX-based (subset of SGML), supporting Money and Quicken clients. I worked on the BO layer (COM objects)
>>9- What would be the time scale for generating the content for a 10 page
>>website?
Depends on if you use templates, and the kind of content.
>>10- What do you Charge for you services? (Please state whether it is a cost
>>per hour or per day)
Paneris will negotiate my rates, either on an individual basis or for a "project proper". I tend to work for market rates, which are obviously slightly higher for ATL/COM programming.
>>---Sample Project---
>>
Samples on request. You can download an evaluation version of "Fandango" from www.digitalworkshop.co.uk if you want to see my multimedia/graphic optimisation skills. This is a screensaver creator package which renders *fast* and uses DirectX (if installed) ...
Alex H
Oxford, 01865 793 722
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11583,'Mon Feb 22 16:32:32 1999','Re: Auction Project telecon',2,11578,'
>James,
>To firm up our telephone conversation.
>I will prepare a proposal using the paneris systems by Monday which will be housed under your new partner node
>(http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/idealnet/) at
>http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/idealnet/auction/ .
>This message is a call for Paneris Memebers to register an
>interest in the project which I will project manage.
I would like to register my interest in this project.
Myles
','f','',96,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
97,'intermail','intermail Project',897,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/intermail/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/intermail/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11584,'Thu Apr 1 13:41:17 1999','intermail',1,0,'
Will,
I have setup the intermail project management site, and also given you write privilages on paneris. you will need to call me for ftp passwords.
I have also setup the intermail site tasks in the timesheet recording system, so please start recording your time!
I am going to call vanessa now.
cheers
tim
','f','',97,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11585,'Fri Apr 9 11:46:50 1999','test',1,0,'
just testing.
','f','',97,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11586,'Fri Apr 9 11:56:26 1999','invoicing',1,0,'
Sylvie,
As discussed on the phone, we typically structure our payment schedule as follows:
25% on commitment to the project
25% on signoff of design / prototype
50% on completion
Unfortunately this information did not make it into the proposal for the intermail site. Our apologies.
If you would like to follow the above payment schedule, I will invoice you now for 25% of the project value, otherwise, please advise on what you consider to be the best way forward.
Whatever you decide, this is not an issue we are going to fall out over :)
Cheers
timj
','f','',97,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
98,'intermail','intermail Interface',898,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/intermail/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/intermail/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11587,'Fri Apr 9 15:13:12 1999','invoice',1,0,'
Syvie,
Please find an invoice for the Intermail site at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/intermail/
Click on the green button to get to the invoice system for intermail.
cheers
timj
','f','',98,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
99,'brunswick','brunswick Project',899,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/brunswick/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/brunswick/',9);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11588,'Wed Sep 15 18:54:17 1999','Status Report',110,0,'
Things have gone very quiet following the delivery of the
initial proposal...price may have frightened them off or I\'m
not talking to the right guy.
There have been technical difficulties with the client\'s
connection which has not helped...however it\'s now on my
list for follow up this week/next week.
','f','',99,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11589,'Wed Sep 15 18:54:17 1999','Re: Status Report',110,11588,'
Followed up with Roger Ohan today....my feeling is that he is not the right guy..project appears to be completely stalled despite a good proposal...I doubt they have even looked at it. Now need to give some though as to how other decision makers can be contacted..until then there will be no progress.
','f','',99,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
100,'fantasyleague','fantasyleague Project',8100,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/fantasyleague/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/fantasyleague/',9);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11590,'Wed Sep 15 18:49:22 1999','Status Report',110,0,'
The customer has settled invoice in full and the site is up
and running....although there was a problem with the domain
name transfer and site has been appearing with IP No only!
I will be keeping contact with client as this site is a
potential target for e-commerce but not until start of next
football season.
','f','',100,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11591,'Wed Sep 15 18:49:22 1999','Re: Status Report',110,11590,'
Dealing directly with Charles Marks from Fantasy League (not WebWorks)and he has agreed to install web Trends as his stats package..he wants to look at e-commerce solutions early in January.
','f','',100,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11592,'Wed Sep 15 18:49:22 1999','Re: Status Report',110,11590,'
Now dealing directly with Fantasy League (Charles Marks) in setting up Web Trends stats package on the site...some initial problems but I belive this is now up and running..if this is not the case, please let me know.
Need to keep good relationship with Fantasy League as they have other potential business and may move to an on line cc authorisation solution for the start of nex football season but discussions will start early in \'98.
','f','',100,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
101,'bloomsbury','bloomsbury Project',8101,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/bloomsbury/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/bloomsbury/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11593,'Wed Sep 15 18:47:28 1999','Preliminary Spec',110,0,'
Looks good enough to get agreement on initial budget.
I think we will probably start at a fairly basic level and build on all the bells
and whistles later on: this is a joint venture with another
publisher (Little, Brown)so it it not clear when the project will go ahead.
I will now meet with Colin Adams to agree initial budget a nd start dates for the project.
','f','',101,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11594,'Wed Sep 15 18:47:28 1999','Re: Preliminary Spec',110,11593,'
Following discussion with client, the site must be
completely separate from the Bloomsbury site so
each data base will be discrete although presumably
the HTML template could be used for loading books
on to the SAS site.
Could Tim Joyce have a look at this and see if
there are any costs issues arising.
','f','',101,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11595,'Wed Sep 15 18:47:28 1999','Re: Preliminary Spec',1,11594,'
I don\'t think this has any further cost implications at this stage. Remember the costs are advisory, and will be revised when we have a full spec.
','f','',101,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11596,'Wed Sep 15 18:47:28 1999','Status Report',110,0,'
Web Trends Stats package up and running and Banner in place.
Need to arrange meeting with Colin Adams to review commecial status at this stage. Concerned that we are providing more than they have paid for.
','f','',101,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11597,'Wed Sep 15 18:47:28 1999','Re: Status Report',1,11596,'
Difficult to comment on the \'commercial status\' as I don\'t have any figures. However, I think we are doing the correct amount of work to keep their site working properly.
','f','',101,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11598,'Thu Feb 11 13:04:05 1999','bloomsbury corporate site',1,0,'
Ross,
I have put up a spec on paneris with time estimates, can you take a look, and if you think it\'s ok, cost it and send it to bloomsbury. if not, give me a call.
cheers
TimJ
','f','',101,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11599,'Fri Mar 5 11:38:19 1999','overhaul document 2',1,0,'
Ross,
Please find the new overhaul documnet (with quotes) on the bloomsbury paneris page (this one).
Cheers
timJ
','f','',101,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11600,'Wed Mar 10 8:42:01 1999','screensaver proposal',1,0,'
Ross,
Please find the screensaver proposal on the paneris bloomsbury site.
Any news on the other bits?
cheers
timj
','f','',101,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
102,'ebc','ebc Project',8102,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/ebc/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/ebc/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11601,'Wed Sep 15 18:45:57 1999','Site Testing',3,0,'
Had a go, seemed as though I had the double refresh problem and
when I editted it to 1 item I still ended up with 3.
','f','',102,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11602,'Wed Sep 15 18:45:57 1999','Re: Site Testing',1,11601,'
Can you re-test this please, I can\'t find a problem.
','f','',102,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
103,'grolier','grolier Project',8103,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/grolier/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/grolier/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11603,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:51 1999','Project Timescales',3,0,'
The project is estimated to take 80 hours, of which
10 are project management and the rest is currently allocated to ColinR.
Colin can only squeeze a few hours a week from his full time job.
Because of the Xmas period he may be able to do more, but
in theory the project might not be accomplished until April, which
I imagine is not acceptable.
TimJ has proposed that ColinR become the \'Art Director\',
providing graphics and styling but farming out the
gif animation and page construction to JustineE or ANO.
To sort this out we need
- When the customer is expecting delivery (SimonT)
- Commitment to specific number of hours per fortnight (ColinR)
If we need to break the task down then ColinR should supply the
breakdown (ColiR).
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11604,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:51 1999','Re: Project Timescales',32,11603,'Posted on behalf of ColinR by TimP
As this is a rush project I can commit to 10 hours per week minimum whilst at
work. If I can do more time on top of this I will.
As you know the fact that I have a full-time job currently limits my
flexibility and availability. This means that the 10 hour minimum applies
only to this project and I will need to assess my regular avaiability for
you.
If each part of the job can be broken down into stages on the to-do list,
then I will endevour to meet specific deadlines and keep you informed as to
whether those deadlines are being accurately met on a day-to-day basis.
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11605,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:51 1999','Re: Project Timescales',111,11604,'Posted on behalf of SimonT by TimP
Once again, thanks for helping us secure the Grolier contract. I\'m very
pleased we are able to move forward with this project now. Our proposal
was based on the production estimate you put together for us and
anticipate around 80 hours work to complete the job. If anything occurs
that threatens this position, please inform me asap.
Grolier have an ad\' campaign starting in the 4th week of January and
require the site to be tested, signed off and launched by the previous
week. Obviously, we need to be all over these guys to supply the
out-standing content on time.
In the first instance we need to get the structure of the site up and
implement with as much of the artwork as possible. Along the way please
feed back content wish lists. Grolier are very aware that regular
feedback and content supply is paramount.
They have been given the development URL of
www.i-way.co.uk/development/grolier . The site should be developed here
so they can view changes on a day-to-day basis. David Nattris will be
email the relevant details for FTP to you later today.
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11606,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:50 1999','Re: Project Timescales',3,11605,'
Colin alone cannot achieve this time scale.
Colin can work 10 hours per week, which gives us seven weeks elapsed time.
This means that the project will be delivered by 3rd week in February,
allowing for some slippage the delivery date will be 01/03/98;
which is brought forward by a month from the delivery date given with the estimate.
To bring this time scale forward dramatically we will have to double up on personnel, which will increase costs.
Please email me on how you wish to acheive the new timescales.
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11607,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:50 1999','Re: Project Timescales',3,11606,'
Can you please explain why there will be additional costs for additional
personnel.
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11608,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:50 1999','Re: Project Timescales',3,11607,'
>Can you please explain why there will be additional costs for additional
>personnel.
>
Simply because the job was estimated upon the assumption that Colin could do the work alone. If he has to divide the work into packages and then tie the packages together, to say nothing of breifing and monitoring whoever does the work,
then it will take more time.
I don\'t actually think that there is a way to introduce additional personnel and reduce the elapsed time that the job takes, as we are in a \'mythical man month\' scenario.
The only way to make this deadline is to work harder.
I have talked with Colin and he has agreed to work over the holiday to ensure that we have reached the end of Phase 2 by \'the end of the third week in Jan\'.
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11609,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:50 1999','Re: Project Timescales',32,11608,'Posted on behalf of colinR by TimP
achieve some part of phase 2 by the 4th week in January so as to provide
Grolier with a usable working site to launch with. This would be consistant
with the advice I first gave to Grolier at the initial project meeting.
This will involve the production of most graphical elements over the
Christmas period during I can agree to more hours per week than usual. The
days I can work will be:
Monday 29th Dec
Tuesday 30th Dec
Wednesday 31st Dec
Friday 2nd Jan
These days can be worked at home, at I-Way\'s Oxford office or a mixture of
the two.
The content of the Xenocracy site at 4th week in January would be only the
most relevant information (technical requirements, pricing, game description
and availablity). Further background such as "The making of" and "FAQs" would
be added later as either phase 2b or as part of phase 3.
Some brief additional copy may therefore need to be supplied by Grolier by a
reasonable date aggreeable to all parties. The completion of any agreed work
by the fourth week in January would be reliant on such deadlines being met.
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11610,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:50 1999','Project Status',32,0,'Posted on behalf of ColinR by TimP
The work which I have done so far on the Grolier/Xenocracy website includes:
* Some slight revision of the structure - defining the Xeno site as four
catagories rather than five
* Setting up logical directory structures - this will make later maintenance
of the site relatively simple and organise the various frameset files and
menus into standard positions for each catagory
* Begun building the site using positional text only pages to setup and test
navigation
Work I shall be doing early this week:
* Resolving the visual mock-up into a working web interface
* Creating template pages for each section based on my original design - if
time becomes short then it will be possible to dole out the templates to
various Paneris members to fill in the content
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11611,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:50 1999','Re: Project Status',3,11610,'
>if
>time becomes short then it will be possible to dole out the templates to
>various Paneris members to fill in the content
>
My feeling is that time is short.
According to the todo list the work you are currently doing should have been finished by 30/12/97 adn the Xenocracy pages should be finished by tomorrow.
Tim and I can help, but we need to have the basic graphic items in place,
and indeed neither of us have much of an eye for layout.
IWay have not spoken to me yet, but I would like to be able to point them to a URL,
so please let me know when one is available.
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11612,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:51 1999','Re: Project Status',32,11611,'Posted on behalf of ColinR by TimP
Take a look at...
http://www.oit.net/~colin/new/site/
...for the current shell of the Xenocracy site. I still need to make up the
top menu bars but now have the HTML methodology which I have applied to the
main menu.
"The Making of Xenocracy" seems to be very short of textual content and is
probably an area which will need further input from Grolier ASAP. We could
possibly "go live" without content here as it is special interest, but this
would mean putting a message up describing the area which would be "coming
soon!".
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11613,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:51 1999','Re: Project Status',3,11612,'
The demo looks good.
It seems that the text is overwriting the graphics on the top frame?
Can you try to mock up the corporate site structure into which this
fits?
When that is convincing then we should upload to the iway site.
SimonT has asked:
>
>Grolier - I know Colin was going to develop this during the break,
>anything to show? I\'ve looked at the development url but it has not yet
>changed.
>
It seems that you have finished the Xenocracy bit, at least for now,
but the majority of the work is allocated to teh corporate site. (18 hours design).
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11614,'Wed Sep 15 18:44:51 1999','Congratulations',3,0,'
The site looks really well.
The only fly in the ointment is that I am
getting less than 1K per second, whilst this
may be an I-Way/dircon problem, it certainly needs fixing.
','f','',103,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
104,'impaired_life','impaired_life Project',8104,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/impaired_life/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/impaired_life/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11615,'Wed Sep 15 18:43:51 1999','Telephone Conversation with Ross Ludgate',3,0,'
Ross has rewritten the application in Visula FoxPro V5.
An earlier version of the application has been uploaded to the site.
IWay will create a new sub directory under incoming called EDF (action GrahamL).
SimonT will copy TimP with minutes of last meeting (Nov97) and any email communications.
TimP will assess methods and difficulties of porting to web (TimJ is contacting guru).
Ross will send TimP details of project status and questions about way forward,
a meeting will only be required if there are commercial implications.
','f','',104,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11616,'Wed Sep 15 18:43:51 1999','Re: Telephone Conversation with Ross Ludgate',1,11615,'
When will the new app be available?
Is it worth looking at the existung one in the meantime.
','f','',104,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
105,'mansoft','mansoft Project',8105,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/mansoft/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/mansoft/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11617,'Wed Sep 15 18:42:28 1999','Data Base Construction',110,0,'
Spec looks OK and is consistent with what was discussed.
I will now meet with client to agree budget and get the go ahead for the project.
','f','',105,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11618,'Wed Sep 15 18:42:28 1999','Staus Report',110,0,'
Will send client a resume of the proposal today and have
arranged meeting to discuss budgets on 20/11/97 at 16.30
at his office.
','f','',105,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11619,'Wed Sep 15 18:42:28 1999','Re: Status Report',110,11618,'
Following meeting with client on 27/11/97 at Reading, spec was revised and new spec prepared ny Tim Joyce (posted on Project Spec.) Will now liaise with client to agree commercial arrangements and get order to proceed.
','f','',105,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11620,'Wed Sep 15 18:42:28 1999','Re: Staus Report',110,11618,'
Customer has now placed order and project can now go ahead as soon as Simon Tucker has given authorisation to Tim Joyce. TimJ has necessary info to proceed and I have given Henry Marriott TimJ\'s e-mail address at I-Way so that they can communicate directly.
','f','',105,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11621,'Wed Sep 15 18:42:28 1999','Re: Status Report',1,11619,'
This project is well underway, hopefully you\'ll all be able to see something tomorrow. A lot depends on if I can get an server set up with graham today.
','f','',105,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11622,'Wed Sep 15 18:42:28 1999','Re: Status Report',110,11621,'
Can Tim Joyce please bring me up to date as to status
','f','',105,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
106,'iway','iway Interface',8106,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/iway/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/iway/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11623,'Wed Sep 15 18:39:08 1999','APL data update',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Paul Cornock by TimP
Phil ...
I had a phone conversation on Friday with Tim Pizey and Myles
Chippendale regarding the data for the APL system.
(Myles is taking over from Tim as the lead on this project)
Their understanding of the project status is as follows:
1. They have data for BAe and Martin Baker complete with prices.
2. The data for BAe and MB is in different formats - they were
expecting all the data to be in a standard format.
3. They are not sure if they have the latest, definitive, set of data
for BAe or MB.
4. They have data for Dowty but with no price data.
5. They do NOT have any data for Rolls Royce or Lloyds(?).
Questions:
Can we confirm the validity of the BAe and MB data?
What is the status on getting valid data from Dowty, etc?
Is the fifth contractor really Lloyds???
Notes:
Myles Chippendale is on: 01865-791-078
Tim Pizzey is on: 01865-721-131
Their e-mail addresses are as per the \'cc\' addresses on this message.
Regards ... Paul
','f','',106,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11624,'Wed Sep 15 18:39:08 1999','FYI: Draft contract from Iway for Tim Pizey dated 14/05/97',3,0,'
tim,
here is a draft contract for you to look at prior to our meeting
tomorrow. We have another project (not with potter!) for you to start
now.
see you tommorow
john
Consultancy Agreement
Date:
Parties:
1. "The Client" I-Way Ltd, 25 Kings Road, Reading, Berks, RG1 3AR
2." The Consultant" Tim Pizey
Operative Provisions:
1. Consultancy Services
1.1 The Client ENGAGES the Consultant to provide consultancy services
to the Client relating to the Clients business and the Consultant
AGREES to provide such services upon the terms and conditions
hereinafter mentioned.
2. Duration
2.1 Shall commence with effect from and shall
continue until terminated by either party giving to the other not less
than 30 days notice.
3. Consultants Obligations
3.1 During the period of this agreement the Consultant shall make
himself available to the Client for up to 1 day per week at such times
and at such locations as the Client and the Consultant shall agree from
time to time.
3.2 The Consultant should perform his obligations with reasonable
care.
4. Fee
4.1 The Client shall pay to the Consultant a fee of £250 per day (such
fee to be exclusive of Value Added Tax if applicable) payable monthly
in arrears to be paid on the last working day of each calendar month,
subject to delivery of the Consultants invoice therefor.
5. Expenses
5.1 The Client shall reimburse to the Consultant all travelling and
other expenses reasonably incurred by him in the proper performance of
his duties hereunder provided that on request the Consultant shall
provide the Client with such vouchers or other evidence of actual
payment of such expense
s that the Client may reasonably require. This for expenses other than
those incurred in attending the Client premises once a week.
6. Termination
6.1 Without limitation the Client may by notice in writing immediately
terminate this agreement if the Consultant shall:
· be in breach of any of the terms of this agreement which in the case
of a breach capable of remedy is not remedies by the Consultant within
21 days of receipt by the Consultant of a notice from the \Client
specifying the breach and requiring its remedies;
· be incompetent, guilty of gross misconduct and/or any serious or
persistent negligence in respect of his obligations hereunder;
· fail or refuse after written warning to carry out the duties
reasonably and properly required of him hereunder
PROVIDED ALWAYS the Client may not terminate the agreement solely for
the reason of the Consultants absence through illness or injury unless
such illness or injury prevents the Consultant providing any services
to the Client for a consecutive period of 6 weeks or for an aggravated
period of 8
weeks in any period of 12 calendar months.
7. Confidential Information
7.1 The Consultant agrees to treat as secret and confidential and not
at any time for any reason to disclose or permit to be disclosed to any
person or other wise make use of or permit to be made use of any
information relating to the Clients technology, technical processes,
business affairs or
finances or any such information relating to a subsidiary, supplier,
customer or client of the Client where knowledge or details of the
information was received during the period of this agreement and upon
termination of this agreement for whatever reason the Consultant will
deliver up to the
Client all working papers or other material and copies provided to him
pursuant to this agreement or prepared by him either in pursuance of
this agreement or previously.
8. Tax Liabilities
8.1 It is hereby declared that this is the intention of the parties
that the Consultant shall have the status of self-employed person and
shall be responsible for all income tax liabilities and National
Insurance or similar contributions in respect of his fees and the
Consultant hereby indemnif
ies the Client in respect of any claims that may be made by the
relevant authorities against the Client in respect of income tax or
National Insurance or similar contributions relating to the Consultants
service hereunder.
9. Notice
9.1 Any notice required by this agreement to be given by either party
to the other shall be in writing and shall be served by sending the
same by registered post or recorded delivery to the last known address
of the other party and any receipt issued by the postal authorities
shall be conclusiv
e evidence of the fact and date of posting of any such notice.
SIGNED for and on behalf of the Client by:
in the presence of
SIGNED by the Consultant:
in the presence of:
john rance
i-way limited
','f','',106,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11625,'Wed Sep 15 18:39:08 1999','Email history',3,0,'
Dear John,
As I am no longer in charge of the Paneris/I-Way
partnership I wish to pass the correspondence on.
To this end I intend to place it on the partners/iway node
of Paneris (http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/)
where it is password protected.
Please inform me by the end of next week (10/09/98)
if you are not happy with this.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',106,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11626,'Tue Apr 27 15:04:47 1999','new agreement',1,0,'
I-way have drafted a new contractors agreement which they would like us to sign. On scanning it, it seems very innocous, and doesn\'t cover much of the ground theat caused disagreemnets last time.
The new and depreciated doc are available at /partners/iway, please email me if you need the password.
The only issue I found was with the IP clause 6.4. I have spoken to ross who assures me that it in no-way restricts our IP rights, but I feel that this should be made explicit in the doc before we sign.
any opinions?
timj
','f','',106,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
107,'sirc','sirc Project',8107,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sirc/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sirc/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11627,'Wed Sep 15 18:36:47 1999','Testing',1,0,'
Just testing the message board
','f','',107,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
108,'usn','usn Project',8108,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/usn/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/usn/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11628,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Confirmation of assumptions',3,0,'
Paul,
To confirm our telephone conversations of today.
Do we need a closed list for UI?
The Lead Time in Days = Lead Time in Weeks x 7.
If the NSN is not of the format 999-99-999-99999 then the item should be rejected.
What is does the Part Type field for MBA mean?
What are we to do with the Labour and Material costs from MBA?
What currency is the Price held in?
Does it vary for each supplier?
What exchange rate calculations do you want performed?
Our current assumption is that the customers want to see the price in Dollars.
It is our understanding that the data upload will occur in the following steps:
When a complete set of data is available to you,
for a particular supplier,
you will review it and check it for correctness.
(The data will be in the same format for BAe and MBA as the samples that have already been delivered. )
The files will then be forwarded to I-Way (timp@i-way.co.uk) by email, in XLS format.
On receipt of the data we convert to CSV format;
load the database,
send an error log back to yourselves for any items which failed validation because they were duplicates or had missing fields.
After that time you will be able to correct line items in the database one at a time.
The current project does not cover the bulk upload of data
from the same suppliers with the same data.
If and when that becomes a requirement then there
will be need for additional programs.
Please send us the supplier details for all five suppliers:
CAGE, Name, Address.
You will review the data conversion specification at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/usn/datadict.htm
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11629,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Comments on USN Demo site',1,0,'
OK, just a few thoughts:
1) Are you going to think about page layouts etc. The site could llok a lot better ever without adding graphics, or is this not part of the requirements.
2) At the bottom of the results page, it would be good to have another search part/description box instead of having to go back.
3) I am sure that you are going to change this, but the order send button should use sendmail, as the mialto: action is very unreliable. (it needs the client to be set up correctly.
Looks good though - DB access is v. quick.
Cheers
Tim
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11630,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Project Status',3,0,'
The Project is going well.
The Following has been achieved:
. Database design and implementation
. MBA Data conversion script
. BAE Data conversion script
. MBA data uploaded
. Password protection
. Part Search
. Part order
Outstanding are:
. Order confirmation (and validation)
. Sending Email (awaiting installation of sendmail)
. Editting parts details online
. Load BAe date (data awaited)
. Load 3 further suppliers
I estimate that there will be approximately 1 days work for each of the
data sets, especially if they are different and are delivered at different times.
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11631,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: Confirmation of assumptions',3,11628,'Posted on behalf of Paul Cornock by TimP
Apologies for the (continuing) delay!
BAe Details:
CAGE: U9143
Addr: BAe Defence Ltd - Military Aircraft Division
Customer Support, Samlesbury Aerodrome
Balderstone, Blackburn, Lancs BB2 7LF
Tel: 01254-768-187
Regards .. Paul
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11632,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: Confirmation of assumptions',3,11628,'Posted on behalf of Phil Smith by TimP
Tim,
Answers to your questions are as follows:
Do we need a closed list for UI?
I feel it should default to "ea" but also allow for "other"
Lead time in days = lead time in weeks x 7 is correct
If NSN is not in format provided, then it should be rejected.
The part type field for MBA relates to the pricing structure and should be
disregarded.
The Labour and Material costs for MBA should be disregarded.
The currency for all items, all firms is British Pound Sterling.
The exchange rate calculation performed should be $1.85 = 1.00 PS
The price list should be in pounds, but customer order total should use the
exchange rate and provide the customer with a total $$ amount.
The five suppliers are as follows:
CAGE: K0289
BAe Defence Limited, Military Aircraft Division
Customer Support, Samlesbury Aerodrome
Balderstone, Blackburn
Lancs BB2 7LF
CAGE: K0654
Messier-Dowty Limited
Cheltenham Road
Gloucester GL2 9QH
CAGE: K0023
Lucas Aerospace Power Systems
Marylands Avenue
Hemel Hempstead
Hertfordshire HP2 4SP
CAGE: U1604
Martin Baker Aircraft Company Limited
Higher Denham, near Uxbridge
Middlesex UB9 5AJ
CAGE: K0378
Rolls Royce Military Aero Engines Limited
P. O. Box 3
Filtons
Bristol BS12 7QE
I will forward the files in .xls and provide additional comments on the www
site shortly.
Phil Smith
NS Navy/NRCC
0181-385-5563
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11633,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Development Area',113,0,'Posted on behalf of Graham Loader by TimP
Development work for the US Navy site can be done on the revolver Apache
server at I-Way (the server Myles has already set up for database work)
The machine is at: revolver.i-way.co.uk
The user name is: maintain
and the password is the world\'s greatest footie team.
<snip> (obivously!)
Any web pages can go into /usr/local/etc/httpd/htdocs/development
which is a directory owned by maintain.
The URL for that area will be:
http://revolver.i-way.co.uk/development/
I\'ve been told that this account should be fine for your development
work, any problems please let me or Peter know.
Cheers,
Graham
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11634,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Upload of existing site',113,0,'Posted on behalf of Graham Loader by TimP
Tim,
I\'ve spoken to Commander Carlson about transfer of existing material
onto the development site. If all has gone well you should find it all
inside the development directory inside the webroot
(/usr/local/etc/httpd/htdocs/development)
They used the maintain username to put the stuff on revolver.
He mentioned that the page you will need to link to from the module you
are creating (the entrance page) is called apl-link.html. I hope this
makes sense to you!
Cheers,
Graham
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11635,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Comments on wording of Logon Page',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Phil Smith by TimP
Tim,
Below please find a change to the US Navy project, page entitled "Welcome
to the NRCC Spare Part MIPR Service." Please include the following in the
place of the "Welcome to the..." and "This service will allow ..." language
at the top of the page. The language starting with the Username and
Password blocks is acceptable.
Welcome to the Naval Regional Contracting Center Detachment London Article
Price List (APL) pricing site.
>From this site you can order or view spare parts pricing contained in the
current APLs for the following five United Kingdom aviation suppliers:
British Aerospace Ltd. <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?logo\'>logo</a>
Lucas Aerospace Ltd., Hemel Hempstead <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?logo\'>logo</a>
Martin Baker Aircraft, Ltd. <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?logo\'>logo</a>
Messier-Dowty Ltd. <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?logo\'>logo</a>
Rolls Royce Military Aero Engines Ltd. <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?logo\'>logo</a>
To access the APL pricing for any of the above listed contractors or to
submit a MIPR to the Naval Regional Contracting Center Detachment London,
you must first be a registered user. If you have received a password from
NRCC, enter your username and password below and submit. If you are not
registered, follow directions below.
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11636,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Further Answers',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Phil Smith by TimP
Answers to your questions are as follows:
Do we need a closed list for UI?
I feel it should default to "ea" but also allow for "other"
Lead time in days = lead time in weeks x 7 is correct
If NSN is not in format provided, then it should be rejected.
The part type field for MBA relates to the pricing structure and should be
disregarded.
The Labour and Material costs for MBA should be disregarded.
The currency for all items, all firms is British Pound Sterling.
The exchange rate calculation performed should be $1.85 = 1.00 PS
The price list should be in pounds, but customer order total should use the
exchange rate and provide the customer with a total $$ amount.
The five suppliers are as follows:
CAGE: K0289
BAe Defence Limited, Military Aircraft Division
Customer Support, Samlesbury Aerodrome
Balderstone, Blackburn
Lancs BB2 7LF
CAGE: K0654
Messier-Dowty Limited
Cheltenham Road
Gloucester GL2 9QH
CAGE: K0023
Lucas Aerospace Power Systems
Marylands Avenue
Hemel Hempstead
Hertfordshire HP2 4SP
CAGE: U1604
Martin Baker Aircraft Company Limited
Higher Denham, near Uxbridge
Middlesex UB9 5AJ
CAGE: K0378
Rolls Royce Military Aero Engines Limited
P. O. Box 3
Filtons
Bristol BS12 7QE
I will forward the files in .xls and provide additional comments on the www
site shortly.
Phil Smith
NS Navy/NRCC
0181-385-5563
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11637,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Re: Further Answers',3,11636,'Posted on behalf of Phil Smith by TimP
Priorities allowed are 1 through 15. It should default to 15.
AMC stands for Acquisition Method Code; AMSC stands for Acquisition Method
Suffix Code
Source Inspection Required should default to YES
Typical values for Contract Distribution Office Codes vary, but are usually
alpha/numeric from 1 to 6 characters.
Shipment should default to "stock"
Any questions please forward direct to me.
Thanks,
Phil Smith
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11638,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','nrcc-london.com naming',113,0,'Posted on behalf of Graham Loader by TimP
I\'ve made the neccessary changes to the server configuration now.
Therefore the URL: http://www.nrcc-london.com
will point to the london directory inside the wwwroot of the
revolver machine.
Cheers,
Graham
--
Graham Loader
Webmaster
I-Way Limited
T: 0118 958 0058
F: 0118 951 2345
W: http://www.i-way.net.uk
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11639,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Re: nrcc-london.com naming',3,11638,'
Graham
At 17:39 13/11/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Tim,
>
>I\'ve made the neccessary changes to the server configuration now.
>Therefore the URL: http://www.nrcc-london.com
>will point to the london directory inside the wwwroot of the
>revolver machine.
>
I don\'t think so.
It should be like this:
nrcc-london.com --> /usr/local/etc/httpd/htdocs/london
www.nrcc-london.com --> /usr/local/etc/httpd/htdocs/london
revolver.i-way.co.uk --> /usr/local/etc/httpd/htdocs
This will enable the following urls to work:
http://revolver.i-way.co.uk/manual/
http://revolver.i-way.co.uk/development/
and so
http://revolver.i-way.co.uk/london/
will be the same as
http://nrcc-london.com/
and the htdocs/index.html will work as planned.
Hope the above makes sense.
Please use the USN project board to confirm completion.
yours
timP
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11640,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Re: Project Status',2,11630,'Posted on behalf of MylesC by TimP
The USN site has been uploaded to revolver for testing. There are still
4 of the 5 outstanding modifications to finish:
Outstanding are:
. Order confirmation (and validation)
. Sending Email (awaiting installation of sendmail)
. Load BAe date (data awaited)
. Load 3 further suppliers (data awaited)
although the "Editting parts details online" has been done. The details
for accessing the site:
Spare Parts service
-------------------
http://revolver.i-way.co.uk/usn-logon.html
You will need : username : admin
password : test
Note that the "Register with NRCC" form works, and at the minute it makes the
username/password active immediately, and without sending an e-mail.
We need to decide how this should work when live.
Administer the Database
-----------------------
http://revolver.i-way.co.uk/usn-admin.html
You will need : Admin password : test
Note that this makes all Suppliers Part Numbers and Part Descriptions upper
case, and it also replaces all single quotes (\') with double quotes in the
description (for instance \'O\' RING will become "O" RING).
Could you have please have a look at the site for bugs and functionality.
I\'ll get in touch with the best person to answer the questions above.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11641,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Dowty Data Notes',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Phil Smith by TimP
Please add this Messier-Dowty price list to www site. Also, please attach
the following at the beginning of the price list:
The following Lead Time codes apply:
Code Delivery Within
A 3 months
B 4 months
C 6 months
D 9 months
E 12 months
If no minimum order quantity (MOQ) is cited, an MOQ of one (1) applies.
Items with an asterisk (*) in the Levy column are subject to the following:
Pricing for this item contains an applied commercial exploitation levy of
7.5%. A waiver of the levy has been sought in accordance with the
agreement between the U.S. and the U.K. governments. Upon obtainment of
this waiver, a modification will be issued to the order to reduce the price
of the item in the amount of the levy and a refund granted in those
instances where payment has already been made to the contractor.
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11642,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Re: Dowty Data Notes',3,11641,'
The data contains two new fields, MOQ and Levy,
which are not in the data design and would require rework to implement.
Consequently I have implemented a work around based upon discussions with Phil Smith.
During the data load, if there is an MOQ then an
entry is made in the price break table between
1 and the MOQ -1 which reads 0,
and the submit script rejects an order for an
item of zero price.
If the item has a levy applicable then the phrase
\'(Levy Applicable *)\' is appended to the nomenclature.
If the description contains that string then an
additional paragraph is inserted into the order.
The Lead Time is either a code, as given, or a number
of months, both are converted to days.
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11643,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Re: Project Status',3,11640,'
The following have been accomplished:
- Order confirmation (and validation)
- Sending Email both for Orders and user registration
- Loaded Dowty Data and amended scripts in their light
- Technical documentation
Awaiting NRCC action:
- Feedback on Order Email
- Feedback on help glossary
- Valid data for BAe
- Data for Lucas
- Data for Rolls Royce
Still outstanding:
- Database administation page
- Colophon Page
. Load BAe date (data awaited)
. Load 3 further suppliers (data awaited)
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11644,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Re: Project Status',3,11643,'
Finished <a href=\'../admin_notes.htm\'>Administration Notes</a>
Finished <a href=\'../colophon.htm\'>Colophon</a>
Further action waiting NRCC feedback.
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11645,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Comments on User interface (telecon)',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Phil Smith by TimP
<a href=\'usn-logon.html\'>usn-logon.html</a> should use the word Command
not Company.
The CLIN should default to 0001.
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11646,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Re: Comments on User interface (telecon)',3,11645,'
Changes implemented
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11647,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Browser Differences',3,0,'
Phil Smith did not like the way that
MS Explorer handles the tab key:
on the Order input screen the tab key
takes you to the next URL not the next field.
There is nothing we can do about this
(except add to the list of reasons for never using M$:))
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11648,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:51 1999','Database Transfer',3,0,'
I am concerned about the USN database on Revolver.
As the number of records goes up (109845 in prices) the performance
is becoming terrible.
TimJ found the same problem using MSQL on revolver for EBC, so is now using
an NT box.
We are expecting two further deliveries of data which may well take us to
200,000 records, which, without idices, will be very slow and may impact upon revolver\'s other duties.
I think that we probably need to port the lot to an NT box, as TimJ has done for EBC, but need your help and go ahead.
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11649,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: Database Transfer',1,11648,'
You have 2 choices:
Use access, and create indexes. Graham is getting quite good at porting sites to NT, so it\'s really no hassle. But the better option is to get informix working. Which we should be able to do. I have requested the informix install disks from simon so that I can work out how to install the ODBC drivers. Informix have assured me that they are shipped with livewire, but chippy couldn\'t find them, an I dont know enough about the install to talk iway people through it. Perhaps you want to have a go timp?
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11650,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','USN Migration',113,0,'Posted on behalf of Graham Loader by TimP
I\'ve modified the US Navy ("NRCC") access database on the new virtual server
(development.nrcc-london) as follows:
PARTS TABLE:
Index added on PARTKEY
Index added on PARTNUM
Both the indexes were based on allowance of duplicate keys.
For some reason access didn\'t like PartKey being a unique key -
due to some duplicates in the database?
PRICE TABLE:
Index added on PARTKEY (again this is a non-unique key)
Cheers,
Graham
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11651,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','USN project status',1,0,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by TimP
Boys,
I am still confused as to the status of this project, specifically, what
needs to be done to complete the project.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11652,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: USN Migration',3,11650,'
Graham,
well done indeed for transferring the data.
It is a worry that the part_key is not unique,
as this is a sequentially allocated integer
which SHOULD be unique, so implieing that the scripts
have not worked correctly.
The file usn-admin.html is not present on the development
machine, but is on the live machine ...... what else is missing?
Have you tested all the scripts?
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11653,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: USN project status',3,11651,'
Data Transfer
-------------
GrahamL has transferred the data,
ie BAe, Dowty, MBa but the unique key
was not unique, so some doubt must be
cast on the success of this.
Data Load
---------
My understanding is that we are still awaiting two priced APLs,
one of which we have recieved without prices.
When this data is delivered we will need to write
two further scripts, one for each data set.
At that point it will be important to check that
the indices are unique.
As we have been paid, and
the further data is unlikely to be delivered, it is possible that
this project may remain in its current state of limbo unless we
get driven by the customer.
I think that we should try to push for final delivery of the data,
upload and acceptance.
I suspect that we will then need to go into an extensive period of
handholding and training to get the system used.
TimP
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11654,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','MIPR system',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Paul Cornock by TimP
Tim ...
I\'m passing these comments on from some of the people who are testing
the MIPR Submission System ...
Problems:
1. When you search for a part the program always returns a list of
matches that simply lists the same part three times.
2. The \'Submitted MIPR\' then includes quantity and price information
for the same part three times ...
3. ... at the wrong price (from the price-break table).
4. The price-break table on the \'Submission Form\' lists the same
quantity/price-break bands multiple times.
Regards ... Paul
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11655,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: MIPR system',3,11654,'
It looks like the data has not loaded properly.
We still need some outstanding data.
I reckon we will need to spend at least a day to investigate/fix.
So need a new PO?
yours
TimP
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11656,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: MIPR system',1,11655,'
PO require, can you quote to simon (use PMS)
Tim
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11657,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Registration for use of US Navy site',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Phil smith by TimP
Tim,
I have been informed that several people have recently tried to register
for using the US Navy pricing list. I believe all requests for passwords,
etc.. should go through me for approval.
Please comment.
Phil Smith
NRCC London
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11658,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: Registration for use of US Navy site',3,11657,'
Tim, Simon,
What am I meant to do about this?
I feel that we have to get back in contact with them by phone.
yours
TimP
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11659,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: Registration for use of US Navy site',3,11658,'
I am suprised that this is happening, as the image link is broken.
When someone registers then you should be informed by email, but there
is no facility to disallow someone registering.
If you are not recieving emails then there is a problem, probably caused
when we ported the APL\'s to NT.
Paul Cornock informed me that the items were triplicated in the database.
I have informed I-way.
As I said to Paul, I cannot do any work without agreement with Simon Tucker,
your account manager, so please copy him on all emails.
yours
Tim Pizey
I-Way
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11660,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Us Navy',3,0,'
Tim,
Sorry to bother you about this one again!
I was looking into the database situation but just quickly wanted
to check before going ahead with this.
Can I just go ahead and re-generate the DB (after moving the
current corrupt one out of the way) using the usn-admin page?
I will keep the existing DB to check to make sure I make the
correct key changes (ie. required/not required) - however do
you have a record of what is required?
Thanks,
Graham
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11661,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: Us Navy',3,11660,'
At 17:59 06/04/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Tim,
Hello Graham, it\'s Myles. I\'m checking Tim\'s e-mail whilst he\'s away,
and I\'m the one that will be doing any work, if needed, on USN. It
would be best to e-mail me about this in the future. I\'ve copied Simon
to let him know about this as well.
>Sorry to bother you about this one again!
>
>I was looking into the database situation but just quickly wanted
>to check before going ahead with this.
>
>Can I just go ahead and re-generate the DB (after moving the
>current corrupt one out of the way) using the usn-admin page?
Yes, except you need to run usn-upload-bae.pl, usn-upload-dowty.pl
and usn-upload-mba.pl, rather than usn-admin.pl . Make sure that
you call &add_or_drop_tables with the correct parameters in
_one_of_ these scripts (and upload that one set of data first,
and every time you want to start again).
I think that is usn-upload-bae.pl used in that way at the moment.
I don\'t think that backing up the database is quite as important
and making sure that the data files used by the upload scripts
don\'t get damaged.
>I will keep the existing DB to check to make sure I make the
>correct key changes (ie. required/not required) - however do
>you have a record of what is required?
The tables are defined (and created) by &add_or_drop_tables
which is in usn-common.pl, but I don\'t think that any field
is defined as required (the upload script and usn-amend.pl
handles that...)
>Thanks,
>Graham
Let me know if you need anything else.
Myles
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11662,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','APL-LINK',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Paul Cornock by TimP
[www.nrcc-london.com]
Tim ...
I\'m not sure whether it\'s because you are working on this or if I
inadvertently overwrote \'APL-LINK.HTM\' the last time I updated our web
site, but ...
When we access the web site and select the Article Price List button
we get an \'under construction\' page returned.
If I screwed up could you \'unscrew\' it by replacing the link please?
If you\'re working on it just let me know. Also, could you give me an
idea of how soon you expect to have solved the problems with the APL
search and user registration?
Many thanks ... Paul
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11663,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: APL-LINK',3,11662,'
Paul,
At 09:36 05/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
> [www.nrcc-london.com]
>
> Tim ...
>
> I\'m not sure whether it\'s because you are working on this or if I
> inadvertently overwrote \'APL-LINK.HTM\' the last time I updated our web
> site, but ...
>
> When we access the web site and select the Article Price List button
> we get an \'under construction\' page returned.
>
> If I screwed up could you \'unscrew\' it by replacing the link please?
It looks very much as though this is an old version of APL-LINK.HTM,
with which you have overwritten the one you want.
>
> If you\'re working on it just let me know. Also, could you give me an
> idea of how soon you expect to have solved the problems with the APL
> search and user registration?
>
I am afraid that I do not have a copy of your original, or intermediate page.
I am not working on this project at the moment, and cannot do so without the
authorisation of your customer contact: Simon Tucker (simont@i-way.co.uk).
Please copy him with all communications, I would be happy to try and help,
but cannot without budget approval.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11664,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: APL-LINK',3,11662,'Posted on behalf of Paul Cornock by TimP
Simon ...
Part of our web site is an Article Price List (APL) system which we
had Tim develop for us. While the system was being developed we had a
dummy page which displayed the usual "this page is under construction"
type of message in it\'s place.
When the APL system was installed, the real version of APL-LINK.HTM
replaced our dummy page.
Somehow, while FTPing updated web pages to the server, I\'ve managed to
overwrite the APL system version of APL-LINK.HTM with the old "under
construction" version.
Is there any way you can restore the APL system version please? (As
the system was developed by Tim and installed on your server we have
no backup held here).
Regards ... Paul
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11665,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: APL-LINK',3,11662,'
Simon,
I have found the USN page that they overwrote.
To mend it is a simple matter, I just need to get the password
from Graham and FTP it back up. (1 hour)
However, Paul Cornock is also asking if the system is live yet.
Is it?
Maybe we need to test it and train the customer?
yours
TimP
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11666,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: APL-LINK',113,11662,'Posted on behalf of Graham Loader by timP
Tim,
How goes it?
I\'ve had a call from Paul Cornock at NRCC. He mentioned that they have an
old copy of a file called apl-link.html on their site, and that a version
with the database search had been written by you?
I was just wondering if you had a copy of this file that you could mail
through to me so I can get it up on the site?
Thanks for your help!
Cheers,
Graham
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11667,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: APL-LINK',3,11666,'
File sent.
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11668,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','USN Status',2,0,'Posted on behalf of MylesC by TimP
At 16:59 19/05/98 +0100, Tim Joyce wrote:
>Tim,
>
>I have just spoken to Simon, he says you now have a PO for fixing this. Can
>you cc.
>
>Cheers
>
>Tim Joyce
Simon sent the PO to me. I have appended this messsage, and my original message.
regards,
Myles
---------------- Message from Simon --------------------
Sorry for the delay in getting this to you.
your PO number is - PO 950852
Simon
-----Original Message-----
From: Myles Chippendale <mylesc@i-way.co.uk>
To: simont@i-way.co.uk <simont@i-way.co.uk>
Cc: Graham Loader <grahaml@i-way.net.uk>
Date: 06 May 1998 17:45
Subject: Re: NRCC
>Simon,
>
>I\'ve a look at the NRCC database:
>
>1) There is only data for 2 of the 5 parts suppliers on the machine
> (for bae and mba). We have received at some point data for dowty,
> but that is not on the server. Note that the data is supplied in
> .xls (Excell) format, and we convert it to .csv to import into the
> spare parts system.
>
>2) For these 2 suppliers (mba/bae), there are 2 versions of the (.csv) data
> (in /development and /cgi-bin)
>
>3) Neither of these files are in the format that the scripts were written
to
> use - this happened before when they supplied sample data which we used
> to write the scripts. When the real data arrived, it was in a different
> format.
>
>We need to make sure that we have the latest versions of the mba and bae
>data, and we need to get hold of the dowty data (if they want to include
it).
>We have never seen any data for the other 2 suppliers (Lucas and Rolls
Royce).
>When we have that, and we are sure that the format of this data will be
>the same next time, we can update the scripts which upload the data
>(usn-upload-bae.pl, usn-upload-mba.pl etc).
>
>The time to update the scripts and upload the data and test it would be
>approximately 4-6 hours. This would be more if they want to include the
>other 2 supppliers as well.
>
>BTW, no-one, to my knowledge, has worked on the server except for Graham.
>
>Let me know what you think.
>
>Myles
>
>PS. I have spend 1.25 hours so far on this. Could you let me have a PO
>for this work, please. Thanks.
>
>
>At 10:21 4/30/98 +0100, Graham Loader wrote:
>>
>>
>>Myles,
>>
>>Please could you let us know what the cost would be for fixing the
>>problems with the NRCC London site.
>>
>>Currently I\'m not sure what the problems are although I know there
>>are problems with the database and the price list area? It might
>>be worth a quick browse of the site to see what needs doing on which
>>to base your quote.
>>
>>Previously I had transfered the whole site and successfully ran the
>>scripts to generate the database. However when attempting to run
>>these scripts a second time recently gave "file not found" errors.
>>Has anyone, other than myself, attempted work on the server?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Graham
>>
>>
>>--
>>Graham Loader
>>Webmaster
>>I-Way Limited
>>T: 0118 958 0058
>>F: 0118 951 2345
>>W: http://www.i-way.net.uk
>>
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>
>Myles Chippendale - mylesc@i-way.co.uk
> MJ Chippendale Solutions
> 77 Hurst Street - 01865 791078
> Oxford OX4 1HA
>
> http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/mylesc/default.html
>______________________________________________________
>
______________________________________________________
Myles Chippendale - mylesc@i-way.co.uk
MJ Chippendale Solutions
77 Hurst Street - 01865 791078
Oxford OX4 1HA
http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/mylesc/default.html
______________________________________________________
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11669,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','USN Status',2,0,'Posted on behalf of MylesC by TimP
Dear all,
I\'ve just talked to Graham who is going to contact the NRCC to get the
latest data for mba and bae, and the dowty data if they have it. He\'ll
also check if they want the other two suppliers included.
When we get the data (Excel?) I\'ll extract the csv files and make sure
the scripts can read the format supplied, and upload the new data.
I will need to write new scripts if they need the other 2 suppliers
included.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11670,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Latest versions of the NRCC data',2,0,'Posted on behalf of MylesC by TimP
Dear all,
I have had a word with Phil Cornock about the NRCC spare parts data.
He needs to talk to Phil Smith, but will get back to us to confirm
whether the last versions of the data which we have (dated November
and December 1997) are still up to date, or whether we need new
versions, which he will arrange to send. This covers the MBA and
BAE data only. When we hear which data to use I will amend the upload
scripts, if necessary, and upload/test the data.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11671,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','APL Data Update',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Paul Cornock by TimP
Phil ...
I had a phone conversation on Friday with Tim Pizey and Myles
Chippendale regarding the data for the APL system.
(Myles is taking over from Tim as the lead on this project)
Their understanding of the project status is as follows:
1. They have data for BAe and Martin Baker complete with prices.
2. The data for BAe and MB is in different formats - they were
expecting all the data to be in a standard format.
3. They are not sure if they have the latest, definitive, set of data
for BAe or MB.
4. They have data for Dowty but with no price data.
5. They do NOT have any data for Rolls Royce or Lloyds(?).
Questions:
Can we confirm the validity of the BAe and MB data?
What is the status on getting valid data from Dowty, etc?
Is the fifth contractor really Lloyds???
Notes:
Myles Chippendale is on: 01865-791-078
Tim Pizzey is on: 01865-721-131
Their e-mail addresses are as per the \'cc\' addresses on this message.
Regards ... Paul
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11672,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','USN Status',3,0,'
The USN project is very nearly complete.
All that is outstanding is inhand.
Summary
=======
1. MylesC has taken over the project
2. Paul Cornock/Phil Smith are checking
that the data we have is correct.
3. Sendmail needs to be fixed on the new server
Everything else is, to the best of my understanding,
is completed, however we have not had feedback from the customer.
TimP
If
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11673,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','USN Status',2,0,'
Dear all,
Here is a report on the status of the US Navy project. I have
included references to data on Paneris, where possible. There
are some e-mails which are not on the message board. In all
cases SimonT was CC\'d. Note that dates on the Message board
do not necessarily correspond to the date on which e-mails were
originally sent.
Original Proposal - 4/11/97
-----------------
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/usn/proposal.htm
The final version of the Proposal is dated 4/11/97 and identifies
the major components of the system. The estimate for the project
(see http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/usn/estimate.htm)
was 12 days work.
First Implementation - November 1997
--------------------
MylesC worked for 5 days in November and TimP worked 10 days
between 9/97 and 12/97. At this point we had a working UNIX system
with 2 sets of data loaded.
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/usn/messages/16.htm
(dated 27/11/97) listed the outstanding work:
Awaiting NRCC action:
- Feedback on Order Email
- Feedback on help glossary
- Valid data for BAe **This data was not in the same format
as the sample data they supplied
- Data for Lucas
- Data for Rolls Royce
Still outstanding:
- Database administation page
- Colophon Page
. Load BAe date (data awaited)
. Load 3 further suppliers (data awaited)
and http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/usn/messages/17.htm (28/11/97)
was confirmation that we had finished the administration and colophon
pages. We rewrote the BAe scripts on the understanding that the data they
had now supplied was the correct format.
So at the end of November 1997 we had the system working, but required
feedback and more data from the customer. The budget had been used
up.
We received data for Lucas and Rolls Royce on 23/12/97 which did not
have pricing information (at Rolls Royce\'s request). TimP said he
would create the new scripts to test the data and upload it upon
receipt of a PO from SimonT.
Port to NT
----------
11/12/97 - TimP suggested that we port the site to NT to provide a
faster database system
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/usn/messages/23.htm
23/1/98 - GrahamL confirmed that he had set up an NT server for the
site
18/2/98 - GrahamL confirmed that he had ported the site to NT.
2/3/98 - GrahamL confirmed that he had set up the databases, but that there
were problems with the data (entries were not unique). TimP
noted that some pages were not present and asked which other
parts of the system were also missing.
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/usn/messages/23.htm
Also on the 2/3/98 TimJ confirmed the status of the project with TimP and
informed SimonT of the situation:
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/usn/messages/26.htm
Basically, we were still waiting on the rest of the data.
Debugging NT Port
-----------------
25/3/98 - Paul Carnock wrote an e-mail noting some problems with the data
on the NRCC site. This was forwarded to SimonT with a note that
we needed his go-ahead to do work.
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/usn/messages/27.htm
3/4/98 - Phil Smith noted that we was not receiving e-mails when people
registered on the system. This was because sendmail had not
been installed after the port to NT. This was forwarded to SimonT
with a note that we needed his go-ahead to do work.
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/usn/messages/30.htm
6/4/98 - GrahamL asked if the problems could be sorted out by reloading
the data. MylesC replied with instructions on how to reload
the data.
14/4/98 - GrahamL replied asking for more information. MylesC asked SimonT
for a PO for this work.
30/4/98 - GrahamL asked if MylesC could fix the site. He agreed and asked
again for a PO.
6/5/98 - MylesC did investigation work without PO. The main problem was that
the data on the NT server was not in the right format.
19/5/98 - Received PO
28/5/98 - Contacted Phil Carnock to confirm which data to use.
Summary
-------
So, the site was working and ready for NRCC feedback and data at the start of
December. The port to NT in January-March broke the system. MylesC contacted
NRCC to check on the status of the data at the end of May, after receiving a
PO.
The work required to finish the project is:
1) Check which data we need to use for MBA/BAe and get new data (if required)
for these 2 suppliers, and fix the upload scripts/upload data. MylesC has
a PO for this work and is waiting on Paul Cornock/Phil Smith to get back
with the information to do the work.
2) We need to fix the sendmail. This involves installing sendmail on the NT
server and fixing scripts. If GrahamL installs and tests an NT sendmail
program then the relevant scripts would take approximately 2 hours to
reconfigure.
3) We need to investigate whether NRCC would like the other 3 suppliers on
the system. If so, we would need approximately 3 days to write the scripts
and the upload the data.
At the moment, 1) is in hand, but 2) and 3) need some work. Please let me
know what we should do about these 2 tasks.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11674,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Status',2,0,'Posted on behalf of MylesC by TimP
I have re-loaded the data for the following companies onto the NRCC
site:
BAe
Lucas
Dowty
We do not have Martin Baker data as NRCC are awaiting authorisation
to use the data. The Rolls data is not loaded as it has no pricing
data (again, authorisation required from Rolls).
I have also fixed the problem with the exchange rate (currently set
at 1.85 dollars to the pound) and price breaks.
As far as I know, everything is now updated and running correctly.
Regards
Myles
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11675,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Small error on apl-link.htm',3,0,'
There is an additional bracket in the text of apl-link.htm
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11676,'Wed Sep 15 18:32:50 1999','Re: Small error on apl-link.htm',2,11675,'
done
','f','',108,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
109,'gas','gas Project',8109,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/gas/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/gas/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11677,'Thu Apr 29 14:00:18 1999','GAS project',1,0,'
Susan,
I have put up the psds that keigh has produced, he has also written a quick note about the site.
At this stage, all we want to do is knock up html pages (no copy yet) based on these .psds. I don\'t think it will take very long, but please let me know if it going to be more than 10 hours.
If you don\'t have convenient web space to put this stuff, give me a call and i will let you know passwords for paneris ftp.
All the .psds etc can be found at www.paneris.co.uk/parthers/keithhagandesign/gas
Please log your timesheets in the pm system (green button on above page). You will need tolet me have you ip address to be able to do this (temporty security measure). Give me a shout if the system is confusing.
If possible, please use this messageboard to communicate with us (again, please call if this is confusing).
have fun
timj
','f','',109,0,0);
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110,'keithhagandesign','keithhagandesign Interface',8110,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/keithhagandesign/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/keithhagandesign/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11678,'Thu Apr 29 12:01:31 1999','new page',1,0,'
Keith,
I have put up a new page www.paneris.co.uk/partners/keithhagandesign
timj
','f','',110,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
111,'corps','corps Project',8111,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/corps/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/corps/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11679,'Fri Jan 15 17:35:37 1999','costs',1,0,'
Chippy (and Tim),
Can you please take a look at the proposal, estimates and design for this project. I have reviewed Rapport which had a budget of 70 hours (and was achieved in 60.25 hours). This project should be similar - with keyhaven handling much of the client interaction. The site is slightly bigger, but the design has already been done.
My initial quote is for 75 hours (£3000) (which is acceptable), but now I feel it would be fairer to estimate about 65 hours (£2600).
I am lilely to ask you (chippy) to do the work, so I thought you could take a look and see what you think.
I am going to see them on tuesday (and am out on monday), so "quick as you like".
Laterz
TimJ
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11680,'Sun Jan 17 14:52:52 1999','Re: costs',2,11679,'
>Chippy (and Tim),
>Can you please take a look at the proposal, estimates and design for this project. I have reviewed Rapport which had a budget of 70 hours (and was achieved in 60.25 hours). This project should be similar - with keyhaven handling much of the client interaction. The site is slightly bigger, but the design has already been done.
>My initial quote is for 75 hours (£3000) (which is acceptable), but now I feel it would be fairer to estimate about 65 hours (£2600).
>I am lilely to ask you (chippy) to do the work, so I thought you could take a look and see what you think.
>I am going to see them on tuesday (and am out on monday), so "quick as you like".
>Laterz
>TimJ
Tim,
Had a look and it all seems very good - like the design. I think
the initial quote of 75 is probably closer to the mark than 65,
but it\'s obviously your call. The only technical remark I would
like to make is that we should not use frames (go with one page
per page using tables).
Myles
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11681,'Tue Mar 16 22:10:06 1999','corps',1,0,'
giles,
I have put up the demo home page on paneris, for you and them to check out. I didn\'t have the password to put it on keyhaven.
i have looked through the rest of the stuff and it all looks fine (although there is quite a lot of it!)
timj
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11682,'Wed Mar 17 0:13:37 1999','Re: corps',3,11681,'
Tim,
I think you need to spell check: sense
yours
Timp
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11683,'Wed Mar 17 0:26:42 1999','Re: corps',3,11681,'
Tim,
What a cool site.
I am really impressed!!
I would like to know more about how who did what :)
I find it hard to believe that you have only spent 17 hours on it.
yours
TimP
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11684,'Wed Mar 17 7:59:41 1999','Re: Re: corps',1,11683,'
>Tim,
>What a cool site.
>I am really impressed!!
thanks tim, and thanks for the feedback on spelling - very valuable.
>I would like to know more about how who did what :)
umm, it\'s not that complex really, i didn\'t do the design, only the html and cutting up the graphics (in photoshop). I hand coded the html.
>I find it hard to believe that you have only spent 17 hours on it.
that includes 5 hours to visit them, but it is true. my next task is to use the script you wrote for skyguard so I can put all the complex html in a template, and start filling in the contect.
timj
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11685,'Thu Mar 18 7:45:53 1999','update',1,0,'
Giles,
I have updated the corp dev site on keyhaven with content for the home page and the 9 pages of uk national services. no pics yet though.
hope this helps.
can you give me the http password for the dev area so that I can see that I have uploaded everything correctly.
cheers
timj
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11686,'Thu Mar 18 23:03:22 1999','progress',1,0,'
giles,
i have added international services and recruitment services and uploaded to keyhaven.
cheers
timj
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11687,'Sun Mar 21 9:35:39 1999','more progress',1,0,'
I have built all the pages, and revised the primary navigation. please take a look.
when do we expect feedback from the corps? should i talk to them directly?
I am going to start adding piccies now
cheers
timj
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11688,'Thu Mar 25 8:56:16 1999','progress',1,0,'
I have been doing stuff on the site, but can\'t upload it. have you run out of web space?
timj
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11689,'Thu Mar 25 8:58:22 1999','Re: progress',1,11688,'
>I have been doing stuff on the site, but can\'t upload it. have you run out of web space?
actually, i think it worked, but I am getting funny ftp errors:
226 quotas on using 997556 of -1 bytes
timj
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11690,'Thu Mar 25 9:37:15 1999','Re: Re: progress',1,11689,'
>226 quotas on using 997556 of -1 bytes
umm seems ok now, i wouldn\'t worry about ti.
anyway, i have made some changes to the rollovers, what do you think?
timj
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11691,'Mon Apr 19 17:05:26 1999','Meeting with Huge Cushion',30,0,'
Tim
I have just got out of a mammoth meeting with Huge Cushion, Patrick\'s marketing man. It was a worthwhile meeting, the result being HC will spend the next week redoing the copy in a style I have predefined. The copy he produces should be directly transferable to the web. The only issue now is I need to get across to you the style we are going with, headings etc. (Hopefully most of it will be self explanatory but you will definately need some guidence from me.)
I will put together the action points from the meeting and email them to you as and when. In brief you will need to do very little at this stage and with the new text in digital format you should be able to format the text very easily into the site. The only change that do concern you are some of the secondary nav will need altering.
Speak to you soon
Giles
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11692,'Mon Jul 19 12:45:42 1999','Rapport',2,0,'
Dear all,
This is the wrong messageboard, really, but nevermind :-)
I tried to look at http://www.rapport-ltd.com/ today, but
I don\'t get into any content...
Myles
','f','',111,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
112,'eclipse','eclipse Project',8112,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/eclipse/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/eclipse/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11693,'Wed Apr 14 15:33:22 1999','kicking things off',1,0,'
All,
I have set up a project node for the eclipse site, and set tasks in the time recording system in line with the proposal.
Quick summary of a phone conversation with daniel 13/04/1999:
Although the spec specifies that there will be very little flash involved, we feel that the site will be a lot better if it is largely built in flash. this can be achieved withing the current budget.
hope this is sensible.
cheers
timj
','f','',112,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11694,'Wed Apr 14 16:02:46 1999','materials',1,0,'
daniel,
I have put everything in the post for you.
cheers
timj
','f','',112,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11695,'Thu Apr 15 23:24:00 1999','typeface needed',6,0,'
Hello,
just had a first look at the content stuff, at a glance it looks pretty good. A few things, though - I need photos of the house, as well as the orchestra that will play. Also, I think an audio visual demonstrating the eclipse would be great, but I need a scientific explanation and a rough diagram so I can illustrate it in Flash. As you know, I said that most of this can and should be done in Flash, I still hold with that! Obviously it will take time and I will put more hours in. I will put all development stuff on my site for review. I will start proper next week, and hope that about a fortnight is a good estimate for completion or at least initial review stage, that would be 5th May. With luck what I put up will be passed..!
As for the subject, I would like (in PC friendly TTF format) the typeface which is illustrated in the supplied "backflat.jpg" file, which would be necessary for all the coolness Flash can offer. ASAP. I guess Penny will need to speak to the person that designed the flyers. Only conceivable problem will be if it is a Mac font - if so, I think there may be (complicated) ways to convert, but obviously would prefer the TTF, if not, name supplied and I could trawl the net and buy if necessary.
Over and out, look forward to starting!
Daniel
','f','',112,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11696,'Fri Apr 16 12:09:44 1999','Re: typeface needed',30,11695,'
>Hello,
>just had a first look at the content stuff, at a glance it looks pretty good. A few things, though - I need photos of the house, as well as the orchestra that will play. Also, I think an audio visual demonstrating the eclipse would be great, but I need a scientific explanation and a rough diagram so I can illustrate it in Flash. As you know, I said that most of this can and should be done in Flash, I still hold with that! Obviously it will take time and I will put more hours in. I will put all development stuff on my site for review. I will start proper next week, and hope that about a fortnight is a good estimate for completion or at least initial review stage, that would be 5th May. With luck what I put up will be passed..!
>As for the subject, I would like (in PC friendly TTF format) the typeface which is illustrated in the supplied "backflat.jpg" file, which would be necessary for all the coolness Flash can offer. ASAP. I guess Penny will need to speak to the person that designed the flyers. Only conceivable problem will be if it is a Mac font - if so, I think there may be (complicated) ways to convert, but obviously would prefer the TTF, if not, name supplied and I could trawl the net and buy if necessary.
>Over and out, look forward to starting!
>Daniel
Daniel,
The name of the font you require is MANSON. The graphic designer doesn\'t have it on his system and would have to find it from an external source, so if you can find it that would be great. I have had a look on the web myself with no luck. If you really can\'t find it or it is going to be too expensive then please let me know and I will see if Andy the graphic designer can get hold of it.
Thanks
Giles
','f','',112,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11697,'Fri Apr 16 16:38:38 1999','>Subject: Re:Photos',1,0,'Posted on behalf of Penny by timj
>
>Hello
>
>I have sent the photo of Chyverton House, Zelah to Giles. Unfortunately,
>the orchestra is more difficult because their opening concert doesn\'t take
>place until June 4th. We do have a montage of Ian Hughes the principal
>conduct of The Cornish Sinfonia with a blurred orchestra in the background
>(maybe we could blag a bit).
>
>The Cornish Sinfonia\'s designer Mark Harrison could provide you with this
>on disc his details are as follows:
>
>Mark Harrison, 256 Creative, Imex House, 6 Wadsworth Road, Perivale,
>Middlesex UB6 7JJ. Tel. No. 0181 998 0256 E-mail: mark@256.co.uk
>
>He\'s on holiday until Monday but I will e-mail him to let him know you will
>contact him.
>
>Penny
>
>
','f','',112,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11698,'Tue Apr 20 21:25:38 1999','eyes peeled',6,0,'Posted on behalf of DanielH by TimJ
Tim,
keep your eyes peeled on http://www.djh-graphics.com/eclipse/intro.html
The intro will have a series of buttons that link to the main site, I think
it\'s going to shape up a treat!
Daniel Hart
graphic designer
---------------------------------
djh-graphics@zetnet.co.uk
','f','',112,0,0);
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11699,'Tue Apr 20 21:26:26 1999','Re: eyes peeled',1,11698,'
cooool. wow. love it.
timj
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11700,'Wed Apr 21 9:31:55 1999','Re: eyes peeled',3,11698,'
>keep your eyes peeled on http://www.djh-graphics.com/eclipse/intro.html
Very nice!
timp
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11701,'Wed Apr 21 10:20:34 1999','Some sites of interest',30,0,'
I have been having a browse on the web for more scientific information about the eclipse and there seems to be quite a lot out there.
Daniel, some of these sites may be useful if you want to incorporate a section on the science behind the eclipse. There is also info there on exactly when and where it will happen.
Penny, as you know gaining links from some these sites is a must and I saw you already getting a mention on one of them but no link yet (obviously). From what I have seen of Daniel\'s work so far we will have the best Eclipse site out there and therefore shouldn\'t have to much trouble getting links.
Some sites to have a look at:
www.silverquick.com/eclipse (links)
www.exploratorium.edu/eclipse (An interesting NASA site, some good scientific stuff)
www.solar-eclipse-99.co.uk (links)
www.thisiscornwall.co.uk (Pandemonium mentioned - lets get a link the moment the site is up)
www.hermit.org
www.eclipse.org.uk
Daniel, excellent design!
Giles
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11702,'Wed Apr 21 15:14:14 1999','The event title/logo',30,0,'
Daniel
I have just come off the phone from Pandemonium and it was mentioned that the text you have used is Eclipse Events - Music for the Skies, rather than just Eclipse - Music for the Skies. Eclipse Events is the organisers not the event itself.
I hope this is not to tricky to alter.
Many thanks
Giles
PS There has been an excellent response from all that have see what has been done so far.
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11703,'Thu Apr 22 13:00:36 1999','Re: The event title/logo',1,11702,'
>Daniel
>I have just come off the phone from Pandemonium and it was mentioned that the text you have used is Eclipse Events - Music for the Skies, rather than just Eclipse - Music for the Skies. Eclipse Events is the organisers not the event itself.
I think it looks great at present, "eclipse" on it\'s own would not look so good. Also, why not promote "Eclipse Events".
Surely the event is called "music for the skies", and it is being organised by "Eclipse Events". What does "Eclipse" on it\'s own mean (in this context)?
cheers
timj
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11704,'Thu Apr 22 14:15:55 1999','Re: Re: The event title/logo',30,11703,'
>>Daniel
>>I have just come off the phone from Pandemonium and it was mentioned that the text you have used is Eclipse Events - Music for the Skies, rather than just Eclipse - Music for the Skies. Eclipse Events is the organisers not the event itself.
>I think it looks great at present, "eclipse" on it\'s own would not look so good. Also, why not promote "Eclipse Events".
>Surely the event is called "music for the skies", and it is being organised by "Eclipse Events". What does "Eclipse" on it\'s own mean (in this context)?
>cheers
>timj
You are right it looks great but:
1. The event is called \'Eclipse - music for the skies\'.
2. It maintains contenuity with the printed material.
Giles
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11705,'Thu Apr 22 14:23:01 1999','site structure',1,0,'
We are proposing to change the site structure slightly in view of analysis and design done by Daniel.
This will essentially involve reducing the main menu navigation from 8 items to 6.
In order to do this, the following pages from the original specification will be rolled together under the "Info" section:
2.6 Information
2.7 Hot News
2.8 Tickets
I think this is very sensible as these items fit well together. Please let us know asap (today) if this raises any concers with anyone else.
timj
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11706,'Thu Apr 22 21:57:13 1999','Re: site structure',1,11705,'Posted on behalf of Penny by TimJ
>
>All
>
>The site looks fantastic so far I am really pleased with it - thank you.
>
>In answer to your question re putting Information, Hot News, Tickets under
>one banner that\'s fine but what I don\'t want to loose is the easy access to
>the box office details and means of selling tickets (ticket sales hat on) -
>otherwise - if you think this is how it will work best that\'s OK with me.
>
>I\'ve just spoken to Giles - maybe we could exchange Tickets for Links and
>therefore links would come under information (won\'t be so easy to lose our
>surfers)?
>
>I do think the design looks alot neater and slicker with 6 instead of 8
>buttons.
>
>Penny
>
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11707,'Thu Apr 22 21:58:02 1999','Re: Re: site structure',1,11706,'
>>I\'ve just spoken to Giles - maybe we could exchange Tickets for Links and
>>therefore links would come under information (won\'t be so easy to lose our
>>surfers)?
Sounds very sensible.
timj
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11708,'Fri Apr 23 19:00:34 1999','Heard on R4',3,0,'
The Pidgin english for the eclipse:
"Hurricane Lamp belong Jesus Christ gone bugger off"
Tim P
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11709,'Tue Apr 27 11:39:42 1999','Re: eyes peeled',1,11698,'Posted on behalf of Penny by TimJ
>
>I\'ve had a look at the latest update - looking good - I see you have
>replaced Info with Location - where are you planning to put extra info i.e
>links, parking etc......?
>
>Penny
>
>
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11710,'Tue Apr 27 11:55:20 1999','site',6,0,'
Dear Penny,
I am working on the site at the moment. I spoke to Giles yesterday and asked him to get hold of some images. Just to recap, I would like AS SOON AS POSSIBLE,
1) pictures of good items from Crew Clothing together with copy for the SHOP section.
2) Pictures of the Cornish Sinfonia and Ben Luxon and Suzanne Manuell(with Three Spires choir?). Who is Ben Luxon?
3)Any other copy for the TICKETS section? It seems sparse at the moment.
If you would like to speak to me regarding any of this, my number is (01865) 243928
Regards,
Daniel
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11711,'Tue Apr 27 14:00:48 1999','Cornish Sinfonia & Crew',30,0,'
Daniel
Penny is trying to get hold of a photo substitute as there is no photo of the Cornish Sinfonia available. This will probably take a day or so but will be sent directly to you.
Crew Clothing will soon have the shirts etc made up and and the moment photos are available you will get get them. Tim has a contact with Crew and may be able to get them directly.
Giles
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11712,'Tue Apr 27 14:13:15 1999','>Subject: Re:Eclipse Site ',1,0,'Posted on behalf of Penny by TimJ
>
>Dear Dan
>
>I spoke to Giles yesterday re: Crew Clothing shirts and a photo of the
>Cornish Sinfonia. Apparently, there isn\'t a photo existing of the Sinfonia
>- a suggestion would be to use a photo of another orchestra with the
>orchestra blurred would this be OK? I don\'t know about the shirts yet.
>
>A few small things about the web-site so far.
>
>1. Our \'corporate identity\' for Eclipse Music for the Skies is that a
>capital i should be I and not i - is this easy to change sorry to be fussy!
>
>2. Alasdair Malloy should be Alasdair not Alisdair - in Introduction.
>
>3. In the Concert section Millennium should have a double n.
>
>4. Concert A Text Ian Hughes Eclipse Symphony is now called Solar Nova
>could this be added???
>
>5. Concert C Text \'Dance with the Devil in the Dance Macabre\' - Dance not
>Danse.
>
>6. Concert C Text should read \'opens music\'s......\' not \'open\'s
>music.......\' and double check spelling of all Millennium.
>
>Thanks alot Dan and I will find out about the Crew shirts as soon as
>possible. Looking forward to seeing the next installment.
>
>Penny
>
>
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11713,'Tue Apr 27 14:47:07 1999','Re: Cornish Sinfonia & Crew',1,11711,'
>Crew Clothing will soon have the shirts etc made up and and the moment photos are available you will get get them. Tim has a contact with Crew and may be able to get them directly.
I have just spoken to simon bent at crew.
1) The eclipse merchandise is not expected until june, so no photos will be forthcoming until then.
2) It doesn\'t appear that crew will be using us to build their ecommerce site (actually a bit of relief considering the workload we have at present). They don\'t appear to have made any firm decision as to what they are going to do, so I would not expect a crew ecommerce site for at least 10 weeks.
Penny, what would you like to do with the merchandise section given this situation?
timj
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11714,'Wed Apr 28 8:27:09 1999','Re: Re: Cornish Sinfonia & Crew',1,11713,'Posted on behalf of Penny by TimJ
>
>Dear Tim
>
>I spoke to Al Parker-Swift (MD of Crew) this morning - he is going to get a
>couple of shirts made up so we can have a photo as soon as. I am speaking
>to him on Thursday and will know the exact time scale then.
>
>I\'ll let you know more after our conversation on Thursday.
>
>
>Penny
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11715,'Tue Jun 15 20:24:17 1999','eclipse',6,0,'
As far as I am concerned, the site is fully complete, all that is needed now is to sign it off. I have put in at least 70 hours, so need to discuss payment with Tim. As for the rest, Penny, glad you like it, Giles, do the necessary paperwork.
See www.pandemonium.com/eclipse
Hope it was what everyone wanted!
Regards,
Daniel Hart
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11716,'Tue Jun 15 21:27:25 1999','Re: eclipse',1,11715,'
Giles,
To clarify Daniel\'s clipped tones, can I invoice for the completed site now?
>Hope it was what everyone wanted!
I wish those boys on tv would stop nicking our ideas :)
timj
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11717,'Wed Jun 16 10:41:04 1999','Site Review by Penny and Giles',30,0,'
Daniel
Last thing yesterday I had a long chat with Penny concerning some of the alterations & errors on the site, which need to be fixed before sign off.
- Firstly, you were sent an updated document that I think you missed. It had a few more pages and some vital links on it that are reciprocal links that have been organised by Penny. Please have a look for the email (with attached word document).
- On the 27 April I believe Penny sent you (perhaps via Tim) an email with some alterations to spellings. Please have a look for it and make the changes. One of them was the spelling of Millennium, which needs to be changed throughout the site.
Other bits and bobs:
- The title INTRODUCTION shouldn\'t have a dot on top of the i. (non-critical)
- Intro pg4. Can you change Ben to Benjamin. (Ben Luxon)
- Intro pg4. Can you change Suzanne Manuell title to MEZZO SOPRANO from SOPRANO SINGER.
- Intro pg4. Spelling - Alasdair
- Concerts pg. Spelling - Millennium x 2
- Concert A. Please add \'…, Solar Nova\' to the end of the last sentence. (The name of the atmospheric Eclipse Symphony.)
- Concert B. Contrary to the text provided the \'Three Spires Choir\' should in fact read \'Three Spires Singers\'.
- Concert C. Grammar - \'open\'s music\' should read \'open music\'s\' ?
- Concert C. Spelling - Millennium x2
- Concert D. Ben to Benjamin
- Concert D. Three Spires Singers not Choir
- Concert D. In the animation at the bottom of the page how difficult would it be to add the following extra items: Carmina Burana, Nimrod, Floral Dance, Sabre Dance, Jupiter from the Planets? (Discuss)
- Eclipse pg. This page its missing the traded links we agreed to put in this section. I will follow up the link trades with the other sites.
- Eclipse pg. The silverquick text appearing at the bottom is in caps and \'tourist officers\' should be \'tourist offices\'.
- Eclipse pg. The solar eclipse text has organises spelt with a \'z\'.
- Location pg. Can you change the sentence \'There is ample free parking, …\' to \'There is ample free parking close to the site,…\'
- Location pg. On the final page of the location section can you add links to the Walker group (Camping). The police link for traffic and travel.
- Tickets pg. Box Office, Office with capital \'O\'.
- Tickets pg. It was felt that the Box Office telephone numbers should be prioritise as they are the two most important items on the site.
- Tickets Pg. It was agreed that a print out form was to be included in the site (layout in the word doc written by Penny). This needs to be done.
- Tickets Pg. Spelling Millennium.
- Tickets Pg. Please add in, \'Group discounts available\'.
- Tickets Pg. Please add a section for CREDITS, which should include \'Event management by Pandemonium Visions Ltd\' (with email link for comments and feedback), \'Website design by Keyhaven International Ltd in association with Paneris\'.
Once you have had a chance to digest some of this please call to discuss.
Cheers
Giles
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11718,'Mon Jun 21 11:19:18 1999','Wrong link',30,0,'
Daniel
Please can you check the links are correct on the About The Eclipse page. www.resort-guide.co.uk links to the wrong site.
Thanks
Giles
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11719,'Wed Jun 23 9:44:03 1999','Errors from Penny',30,0,'
Dear Giles
I have looked at the site - a few points:
* In Concert C - one of the millennium\'s is still spelt incorrectly in the text
* eclipse.org.uk - link is not connecting in thelinks - this may be what you were discussing with me yesterday.
* If you try and print a page it comes out very very small - is there a reason - I tried the links page
* The form is not printing at the moment
Otherwise it looks great - I am out of the office on Wednesday but in the office for Thursday morning.
The other point is that i have sent you the two shirts for photographing I will fax you a copy of how Crew do the photos.
Speak to you soon.
Penny
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11720,'Tue Jul 6 12:04:24 1999','Meta Tags',30,0,'
Tim/Daniel
Please note that I have updated the Meta tags on the Eclipse and Pandemonium HTML pages. Before making alterations to these pages please download the current versions.
Cheers Giles
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INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
113,'lips','lips Project',8113,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/lips/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/lips/',5);
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11721,'Wed Jan 27 10:57:08 1999','lips',1,0,'
Giles,
the lips proposal is up,
please note that we are very keen to take on this project, and are prepared to drop the price to ensure that we get it. this said, the estiamtes given are accurate. I leave the selling in your capable hands...
please call to chat through it.
TimJ
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INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
114,'keyhaven','keyhaven Interface',8114,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/keyhaven/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/keyhaven/',4);
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11722,'Wed Jan 13 20:47:51 1999','Pricing Deal',30,0,'Posted on behalf of Giles by TimJ
On Tuesday we reviewed your charges to Keyhaven for future work and can you please confirm with a reply email the following structure:
Charges will be reviewed on a quarterly basis and will be depended on the amount of work given to you the previous quarter.
If Keyhaven provide you with 25k + worth of web work in one quarter your hourly rate drops to £37.50 per hour.
If Keyhaven provide you with 50k + worth of web work in one quarter your hourly rate drops to £35.00 per hour.
These figures include work that is by way of introductory fee only. (We need to discuss this point more fully.)
Please let me know if you are happy with this.
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11723,'Wed Jan 13 20:54:09 1999','Re: Pricing Deal',1,11722,'
Giles,
Thanks loads for the proposed business. I think that the deal is fine. For paneris purposes, we will reduce the sales commision and then shave a little off the management %age if the proposed clauses come into play. This has the advantage that the developer will still maintain his hourly rate of £32 per hour, and will therefor continue to work just as hard for keyhaven as for any other customer.
I would propose that the "new deal" starts Q1 1999, and so any discounts will first come into play in Q2 1999.
Paneris: any other comments?
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11724,'Tue Feb 2 12:35:54 1999','tank museum',1,0,'
Giles,
>Please Confirm pricing for the following work
>Standard email inquiry/feedback form similar to that on the Keyhaven Website. It should include the following elements: Name, Address, Email, Tel, Fax, RE:, Message box and tick box sections for Type of enquiry and method of response.
4 hours
>Bulletin board similar to that found on Paneris. Simple system designed to give enthusiasts the opportunity to communicate. This section will need to be policed by the client and therefore requires a back office function to remove inappropriate messages.
15 hours (was 20, but we don\'t think this is as much work now).
Cheers
Tim Joyce
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11725,'Tue Mar 9 11:02:56 1999','test',1,0,'
test
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11726,'Tue Mar 9 11:03:14 1999','ip',1,0,'
Keyhaven, have a good one:
Their old supplier of web design (www.shiftf7.co.uk) have threatened them with legal action over the ip rights to the javascript used on a couple of sites (http://www.keyhaven.com/home.html and http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/home.html). Keyhaven paid a lot of money for the design of these sites, but shiftf7 seem to think that the javascript is not included.
The obviously havn\'t got a leg to stand on, but to even care that much about 30 lines of javascript is daft. i figure "the devil makes work for idle hands", and they are going bust.
Anyway i offered to replace the script with our own code, but how can I prove it\'s mine as it will look very similar to the shiftf7 stuff. the only differences i can think of introducing are changing the function and variable names. the code is too trivial to put our own mark on the structure of it.
has anyone got any experience in this? on a wider perspective, what rights can people expect to wield over published source code?
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11727,'Tue Mar 9 11:05:30 1999','Re: ip',1,11726,'
>Keyhaven, have a good one:
>Their old supplier of web design (www.shiftf7.co.uk) have threatened them with legal action over the ip rights to the javascript used on a couple of sites (http://www.keyhaven.com/home.html and http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/home.html). Keyhaven paid a lot of money for the design of these sites, but shiftf7 seem to think that the javascript is not included.
It would be interesting to know why Shiftf7 think that the javascript was not included as part of the rest of the web design (not ownership of the code - i.e. the copyright - merely a license to use the code in the way that one would expect it to be used in the web design) - there is something called "non-derogation of grant" which provides that if you sell something to someone you cannot interfere with a purchaser\'s right to use that article for the rest of its natural life. This principle isn\'t normally applied to IP matters but it has been once (by the House of Lords in British Leyland v. Armstrong a case concerning the copyright protection for exhaust pipes).
>The obviously havn\'t got a leg to stand on, but to even care that much about 30 lines of javascript is daft. i figure "the devil makes work for idle hands", and they are going bust.
>Anyway i offered to replace the script with our own code, but how can I prove it\'s mine as it will look very similar to the shiftf7 stuff. the only differences i can think of introducing are changing the function and variable names. the code is too trivial to put our own mark on the structure of it.
The recognised technique for doing this sort of thing is to use a clean room approach. You have to find someone who hasn\'t seen the code. Then you write down the functions which you want the code to perform and give them to the programmer still without showing him the actual code which you want to reconstruct. Then test the code and check it does what its supposed to (and check its not identical to the original code or you will have a hard time convincing the court that you actually used the clean room approach, however you should be able to overcome this problem if it really is trivial by documenting what you are doing - the courts will generally believe someone if they are telling the truth). This method should overcome copyright (which I am assuming is the IP right being asserted by shiftf7) it will not work if they have managed to get patent protection for the code.
>has anyone got any experience in this? on a wider perspective, what rights can people expect to wield over published source code?
Copyright mainly but also possibly patent protection provided they apply for it before publicly disclosing the code and provided they have a clever patent attorney in anywhere but the US.
Hope this helps
Simeon
p.s. just changing a few function names won\'t help. As the name suggests, to avoid copyright you have to avoid copying the work in question. Copying it and then changing it a bit still means it was copied.
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11728,'Tue Mar 9 21:41:44 1999','thursday',1,0,'
Ed,
>Thanks for the info on IP. We are sending a strong letter!
good, chippy is ready when you need the javascript redone.
>I have arranged a meeting with The Salcombe Clothing Company in Parson\'s Green at 4 o\'clock on Thursday. I would like you to come along if possible as this is probably one I shall pass straight on. The contact is a friend called Louise Parker-Swift.
I have set a meet with Tim Buxton at 2pm, so will call you whne i get out. I am also seeing Will Rowsel at 6pm ish.
timj
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11729,'Wed Mar 10 10:52:37 1999','Java Script on Keyhaven\'s Website',30,0,'
Myles,
As you know Keyhaven has had some issues with copyright on the JavaScript that controls the mouseovers on our site. We have now removed all the JS and uploaded the site to the server.
Could you please have a look at it and write some scripting to resore our mouseover. I mentioned to Tim that all we really need is a few pages done, maybe the home page and a panoramas page, and from there we should be able to do a cut a paste job on the other pages if you are happy with this. All the images to perform the state changes are in the images folder on the website. I will send the user name and password for our site separate to this message. It should be faily straight forward where the mouseovers should be, but if you have any problems then please email or call on 01980 847733. (The only one that may be a bit confusing is the panoramas section where the thumbnail photos rollover.)
Thanks
Giles
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11730,'Wed Mar 10 20:26:06 1999','Re: Java Script on Keyhaven\'s Website',2,11729,'
>Myles,
>As you know Keyhaven has had some issues with copyright on the JavaScript that controls the mouseovers on our site. We have now removed all the JS and uploaded the site to the server.
>Could you please have a look at it and write some scripting to resore our mouseover. I mentioned to Tim that all we really need is a few pages done, maybe the home page and a panoramas page, and from there we should be able to do a cut a paste job on the other pages if you are happy with this. All the images to perform the state changes are in the images folder on the website. I will send the user name and password for our site separate to this message. It should be faily straight forward where the mouseovers should be, but if you have any problems then please email or call on 01980 847733. (The only one that may be a bit confusing is the panoramas section where the thumbnail photos rollover.)
>Thanks
>Giles
Giles I have altered the following pages:
/index.html : Added rollovers for the 3 buttons. I also fixed a bug
in the random image selection routine which meant that the same
image was always displayed.
/home.html : I have added rollovers for the left hand menu and
navbar at the top of the page. Note that this is a slighly more
complicated version of the script than that used in index.html
/panoramas/property.html : Added rollovers on the left and for the
differnent panoramas (rooms, in this case). This uses the same
script as for /home.html
To add roll-overs to other pages, copy the javascript section at the
top of the index.html page, making sure that for each rollover you want you
have a line like:
img_preload ("prop", "off.gif", "on.jpg",100,39);
where "prop" is the name of the image to change, "off.gif"
is the (relative) URL to the "normal" image, "on.jpg" is
the URL to the rolled-over image, 100 is the width and 39
is the height of the image in pixels.
Then, (making sure that the img has a name="prop" attribute -
they already have some names, so remember to change them, not
just add another name="..." attribute) add
onMouseOver="roll(\'prop\',1)" onMouseOut="roll(\'prop\',0)"
to the anchor (A) tag surrounding the image.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',114,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
115,'pandamonium','pandamonium Project',8115,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/pandamonium/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/pandamonium/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11731,'Fri Jan 15 16:43:07 1999','proposal',1,0,'
Giles,
I have put up out combined proposal, including almost all of your stuff.
TimJ
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11732,'Fri Jan 15 16:44:50 1999','Re: proposal',1,11731,'
Daniel,
Can you take a look at the pandemonium proposal, and put in some figures for doing the flash stuff. At this stage we are not considering doing the Eclipse page.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11733,'Wed Jan 20 12:56:01 1999','Re: Re: proposal',1,11732,'
Giles,
The proposed costs are up, see what you think, and give me a bell.
Cheers
Tim
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11734,'Tue Feb 9 16:46:41 1999','go-ahead',1,0,'
Daniel,
We have the go-ahead to produce a \'story-board\' for the pandamonium site. Penny is due to sign off tomorrow, but giles thinks we should start working on the storyboard.
I have amended the proposal, and have taken out the \'dream tank\', and the \'creation page\' will no longer be done in flash. This has cut the cost of the project to something penny is happy with.
over to you... give me a call if you need to chat things through.
TimJ
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11735,'Tue Feb 9 17:30:57 1999','pandemonium',6,0,'
Giles,
just had another look at the proposal and a proper think about it. I would like to speak to Penny about more specific imagery, although if given a free reign I think I could come up with stuff. THe problem is - I am concerned that, while she is very vague about specifics, she might not like anything I go with. I think, given that this is very much her \'brainchild\', she could give me details on the *type* of image she wants for each section (events, creation etc.) although I think I have a clear idea of her objectives. I spoke to her only once, and she said that she thought I was going to find the images in this bookshop. My only pointer there really, and the reason for suggesting it, was because it contained Victoriana. Does she want Victoriana, funky, youthy, modern, old, etc - do you see my point?! Basically I need to speak to her properly and I need the go-ahead for that. However, I think you may be better at managing the potential problem - she needs to supply ideas, we execute them creatively. I can find clip-art and use it in a quirky, kitsch way, I can use perhaps arbitrary images culled from old books, whatever, but I can\'t illustrate myself in the time given (not that I\'m a Kit Williams anyway!)
I have spoken to Tim about this too. Hear from you soon, by the way, I am going to Australia for 9 days in March (10th) and can\'t see the project being started until at least next week, meaning that the final deadline of 8th March might be cutting it fine, although we can certainly have a provisionally \'finished\' site for then.
Sorry about the ramble, does all this make sense? Daniel
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11736,'Tue Feb 9 17:40:44 1999','site',6,0,'
Giles,
just one more thing, about the storyboard. It will be hard to give a specific sense of a storyboard without first getting approval for the images, and also what names the sections (evensts, contact etc) will have, also I need copy for all the dream quotes and basically a lot more material in general before I can structure all this information in a Flash-friendly way. Looking at the proposal, all I can go by is category, without *really* knowing the content - I can\'t build around nothing . . . ! So basically Penny needs to give US a lot more than she has. I phoned her maybe a month ago and left a message on her answerphone, she hasn\'t got back to me, so this doesn\'t bode well at the moment. I gather she is busy but she will need to devote a fair bit of time to overseeing this at each step for it to be successful and something she is happy with.
Agreed?
Daniel
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11737,'Tue Feb 9 20:01:04 1999','another Flash website',6,0,'
Hello all, this may be relevant to the pandemonium stuff, equally you may just want to see it, but as a really rough estimate, how much do you reckon I should charge for this? I know it\'s really small but quite a lot of work has gone into it.
http://www.i-way.co.uk/~raphael
and its the Flash version (NOT the other one)
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11738,'Wed Feb 10 21:45:53 1999','Re: another Flash website',1,11737,'
>Hello all, this may be relevant to the pandemonium stuff, equally you may just want to see it, but as a really rough estimate, how much do you reckon I should charge for this? I know it\'s really small but quite a lot of work has gone into it.
>http://www.i-way.co.uk/~raphael
>and its the Flash version (NOT the other one)
yeh, really nice. to cost it for your mate, work out how long it took (hours) and multiply by "mates rates" (between 15 and 25 quid). this at least gives you something to work from, and means you don\'t loose money.
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11739,'Thu Feb 11 15:32:10 1999','Penny',6,0,'
Just to say I left a message on Penny\'s answerphone yesterday saying I wanted to talk about imagery, needed all the quotes and some form of copy as well, could she call me.
Daniel
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11740,'Mon Feb 22 11:17:39 1999','Penny II',6,0,'
I phoned Penny last Monday (15th) and she was very apologetic and said she would get back to me on the Wednesday, with more information, a clearer outline of stuff she wanted from me and lots of copy, quotes etc.
I still haven\'t heard anything!
Daniel
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11741,'Wed Mar 17 9:54:27 1999','Agreement signed',30,0,'
For your information...
Penny has returned a signed agreement to Keyhaven for the Pamdemonium website. I feel that having made this commitment things may start to move along a little faster. Daniel - please give me a ring when you recieve this email and we can talk over the storyboard and workflow.
Also Penny must do the budget for Eclipse site very soon and has requested that we enter a proposal ASAP for the Eclipse site. I know it would have been nice to get the Pandemonium site done first but it now seems we do not have this luxury. Tim - if you would mind leading the way on this one I would be greatful.
Cheers Giles
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11742,'Wed Mar 17 11:12:17 1999','Re: Agreement signed',1,11741,'
>Also Penny must do the budget for Eclipse site very soon and has requested that we enter a proposal ASAP for the Eclipse site. I know it would have been nice to get the Pandemonium site done first but it now seems we do not have this luxury. Tim - if you would mind leading the way on this one I would be greatful.
Ummm, I would very much like to see how the pandemonium project pans out in terms of costs etc before commiting to a budget (or even a proposal) for the eclipse site. I give the following reasons:
1) I feel that a proposal at this stage would be premature as having built the pandemonium site, we will be much more able to establish the quality level that penny is after.
2) I do not want to muddy the waters for either party, at present we have a \'contained\' spec and deliverables, I worry about all sorts of crossovers if we get too involved with eclipse now.
3) Writing a proposal now will not get eithier site done more quickly (infact it will probably slow down the pandamonium site.
4) At present, I have 4 proposals outstanding to write, and I really need to do some real work.
5) For the Pandemonium site, penny set the budget irrespective of the proposal, so quite why she needs a proposal to set a budget now is questionable.
I think that if penny needs to allocate budget, she should use the figure for the Eclipse site and add say 20%.
As you have probably realised, points 1,2,3,5 are probably excuses for point 4, so please don\'t take these comments too harshly. Let\'s just wait a couple of weeks, please...
timj
','f','',115,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
116,'rapport','rapport Project',8116,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/rapport/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/rapport/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11743,'Wed Sep 15 18:23:42 1999','rapport',1,0,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by MylesC
Chippy,
Is rapport live? If not we should wait until it is before making final
calculations about money.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
','f','',116,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11744,'Wed Sep 15 18:23:42 1999','Re: rapport',2,11743,'
Tim,
Yes, it is live. I have to put up the last 2 weeks of reports, but
this come under the maintenance agreement.
Myles
>Chippy,
>
>Is rapport live? If not we should wait until it is before making final
>calculations about money.
>
>Cheers
>
>Tim Joyce
>Chief Enthusiast
>HOOP Ltd
>tim@hoop.co.uk
>http://www.hoop.co.uk
>+44 1202 251 816
','f','',116,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11745,'Fri Dec 18 11:44:06 1998','rapport training',1,0,'
Chippy,
Rapport would like some training on uploading reports. This may also involve installing s/w such as an FTP client and PFE.
How are you fixed for early feb? Can you squeeze them in? I think it should be easily accomplished in a day.
Tim J.
','f','',116,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11746,'Fri Dec 18 13:59:58 1998','Re: rapport training',2,11745,'
>Chippy,
>Rapport would like some training on uploading reports. This may also involve installing s/w such as an FTP client and PFE.
>How are you fixed for early feb? Can you squeeze them in? I think it should be easily accomplished in a day.
>Tim J.
Tim,
Very clear at the moment. Suggest some times/dates. 11am
start would be ideal (I don\'t think we\'ll need that long).
Myles
','f','',116,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11747,'Tue Dec 22 17:49:03 1998','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',116,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11748,'Tue Dec 22 17:50:48 1998','Re: Re: rapport training',1,11746,'
Giles,
Myles is available to train Rapport anytime in early Februrary. He thinks it will be fine to start at 11am.
Can you arragne the exact data and time with him.
Cheers
Tim
>>Chippy,
>>Rapport would like some training on uploading reports. This may also involve installing s/w such as an FTP client and PFE.
>>How are you fixed for early feb? Can you squeeze them in? I think it should be easily accomplished in a day.
>>Tim J.
>Tim,
>Very clear at the moment. Suggest some times/dates. 11am
>start would be ideal (I don\'t think we\'ll need that long).
>Myles
','f','',116,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11749,'Wed Jan 13 21:40:39 1999','paid',1,0,'
Chippy,
I have just paid you for the rapport reports.
cheers
Tim
','f','',116,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11750,'Thu Jan 14 12:24:12 1999','Re: Re: Re: rapport training',30,11748,'
>Giles,
>Myles is available to train Rapport anytime in early Februrary. He thinks it will be fine to start at 11am.
>Can you arragne the exact data and time with him.
>Cheers
>Tim
>
>>>Chippy,
>>>Rapport would like some training on uploading reports. This may also involve installing s/w such as an FTP client and PFE.
>>>How are you fixed for early feb? Can you squeeze them in? I think it should be easily accomplished in a day.
>>>Tim J.
>>Tim,
>>Very clear at the moment. Suggest some times/dates. 11am
>>start would be ideal (I don\'t think we\'ll need that long).
>>Myles
________
Myles,
Sorry to take so long sorting out this training day. I have just spoken to Stephen Day who said he can do it in the second week of Feb. He can\'t yet confirm a day but will get back to me asap. I hope this fits in with you OK. I will get in touch soon.
Thanks Giles
','f','',116,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11751,'Mon Feb 1 21:03:26 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: rapport training',30,11750,'
>>Giles,
>>Myles is available to train Rapport anytime in early Februrary. He thinks it will be fine to start at 11am.
>>Can you arragne the exact data and time with him.
>>Cheers
>>Tim
>>
>>>>Chippy,
>>>>Rapport would like some training on uploading reports. This may also involve installing s/w such as an FTP client and PFE.
>>>>How are you fixed for early feb? Can you squeeze them in? I think it should be easily accomplished in a day.
>>>>Tim J.
>>>Tim,
>>>Very clear at the moment. Suggest some times/dates. 11am
>>>start would be ideal (I don\'t think we\'ll need that long).
>>>Myles
>________
>Myles,
>Sorry to take so long sorting out this training day. I have just spoken to Stephen Day who said he can do it in the second week of Feb. He can\'t yet confirm a day but will get back to me asap. I hope this fits in with you OK. I will get in touch soon.
>Thanks Giles
Myles/Tim
Finally Stephen Day has got back to me about the trainning day. Rapport at the moment is having a busy time with ISO 9000 audit and moving offices and would therefore like to put of the trainning day for a month/six weeks. Sorry to mess you all around like this and I will make sure it is all confirmed well in advance next time.
Giles
','f','',116,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11752,'Tue Jul 27 12:01:45 1999','Current situation',30,0,'
To all involved with the Rapport Project,
It seems Rapport is going through a rocky patch and has moved to a less costly location and have \'lost\' a few of their client who used the report service we were assisting with. As a result we will not be doing this service for the forseable future.
As for the missing site... Stephen Day has removed the site for updates in house and is moving from Demon to BT. (Wasn\'t happy with Demon)
All in all I am rather disappointed with the lack of communication Rapport have shown. Their was no indication that they were moving, stopping the reports or temporarily removing the site.
I will keep you informed of any changes.
Giles
','f','',116,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
117,'sendmail','sendmail Project',8117,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sendmail/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sendmail/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11753,'Wed Sep 15 18:21:13 1999','sendmail script',3,0,'
Ed,
The sendmail script should be relatively simple,
however I need a little input from you.
The input form should presumably remain exactly as it is,
however we need to return a page to the user after they
have sent the message.
The returned page should be the same as the input page,
with the message sent replacing the input form.
I will however need two more images:
2nav-home-sentbut-h.gif
just like 2nav-home-contactbut-h.gif but with \'Message Sent\' as the text
title-sent.gif
just like title-contact.gif but with \'Message Sent\' text
Assuming that you will supply these then the job should
take a day ie 300 gbp.
Hoping that that is acceptable;
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',117,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11754,'Wed Sep 15 18:21:12 1999','Modification suggestions',3,0,'
Ed,
The form might be changed as follows:
Add Fax Number
Add Address
Change \'comments or messages\' to \'message\'
Contact me by phone/fax/email/no response required
If no address and brochure requested then error.
These changes should not take long,
(5 hours so far) total will still be under 8 hours.
yours
Tim P
','f','',117,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11755,'Wed Sep 15 18:21:12 1999','Mailto form on KI site',33,0,'Posted on behalf of Ed Ross by Tim Pizey
Tim,
That looks great - please upload and send invoice!
Ed
','f','',117,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11756,'Wed Sep 15 18:21:12 1999','Project status',3,0,'
Ed,
The script is on the site.
I renamed the old page \'contact.old\'.
I created a new directory below docs called cgi-bin,
which is where the script is.
I decided not to put error checking in
(such as a brochure request without an address)
as this is often more annoying than helpful.
The new images need to be inserted into the template,
(/docs/cgi-bin/keyhaven_email.template), but this can be done in slow time.
I have spent 9 hours (just over), which TimJ will invoice for.
yours
TimP
','f','',117,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
118,'sterling','sterling Project',8118,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sterling/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sterling/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11757,'Wed Dec 16 12:07:41 1998','sterling industries',1,0,'
Ed,
I have set up an area on paneris for sterling industries, and have written the Requirements Spec. I am not entirely happy, but see what you think.
I have also set up the messageboard system so that you and giles are coppied on all mails. I think, in view of sterling\'s interest in messageboards, that we should start using this systme to discuss the project.
I have also branded the Keyhaven pages on paneris with the Keyhaven logo, hope you like it.
Let me know what you think of the ReqSpec.
TimJ
','f','',118,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
119,'tba','tba Project',8119,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/tba/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/tba/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11758,'Wed Mar 3 9:08:18 1999','tba',1,0,'
Ed,
I have done the tba proposal, up on paneris now. It is not quite the dynamic site that you had described, but it will give them a solid grounding on the web from where they can plan other online projects.
I think that it would be good to stress to them how useful having a site and brochure \'in line\' is. Brochureware sites do get criticised, but they do serve a purpose.
The estimates will allow us to do a very well designed (but not multimedia) site. If required, you can therefor cut the price in order to get the order, we can then compromise a little on the quality.
Please call to discuss this if required.
Very disapointed to hear about Hotels of Distinction :-(
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',119,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
120,'tcs','tcs Project',8120,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/tcs/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/tcs/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11759,'Thu Mar 4 14:33:26 1999','tcs',1,0,'
Giles,
please find the proposal on paneris. I have kept the costs to a minimum, as i think (from what keith said at the meeting) that they will chose a supplier largely on costs.
cheers
timj
','f','',120,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
121,'telematixs','telematixs Project',8121,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/telematixs/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/telematixs/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11760,'Wed Sep 15 18:19:34 1999','First glance',3,0,'
Looks good.
Like the peer review in budget :)
The repetition of the tasks in the plan and in Tasks, is a
worry. Oviously the tasks must be in the document and must be frozen
as of the datestamp of the plan, but the document will become out of
date as soon as the tasks are modified. Probably not a worry.
yours
TimP
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11761,'Wed Sep 15 18:19:34 1999','Status',3,0,'
Tim,
I have got quite far, redone the index page which you can see at index.htm.
Should be able to finish, but do have other work pressing.
TimP
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11762,'Wed Sep 15 18:19:34 1999','Status ',3,0,'
I have got all the text into pages.
And created appropriate sub-heading gifs.
(They don\'t seem quite the same as the \'technology\' ones ?
The subsection gifs do not have ALTS.
I used a perl script (create_subs.pl) to create the pages,
so hand editting is deprecated.
We need:
Text for
Technology page
Contact Us page
Links page
Images for:
Product page
Recruitment page
Corporate page
Press page
Contact Us page
Links page
I need to know what to do with the diagrams (throw them away?)
I have left the navigation arrows in, even if there is no section yet.
yours
TimP
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11763,'Wed Sep 15 18:19:34 1999','Re: Status ',1,11762,'
>I have got all the text into pages.
cool
>And created appropriate sub-heading gifs.
>(They don\'t seem quite the same as the \'technology\' ones ?
The bg seems to be lighter (which i quite like). I think the text needs to be in black in order to be more readable.
>The subsection gifs do not have ALTS.
I tend to do alts as simple the text they have on them.
>I used a perl script (create_subs.pl) to create the pages,
>so hand editting is deprecated.
good. i think. as long as it is flexable, we need to apply some styleisation to the text now.
>We need:
>Text for
>Technology page
you should have this (thanks jenny)
>Contact Us page
you have their address adn tel no, can you make up a form with typical contact details, and implement a perl mailto back end (i have several for nt if you wan\'t to butcher one).
>Links page
there are several companies mentioned on the page, can you get somelinks to their homepages at least.
>Images for:
>Product page
>Recruitment page
>Corporate page
>Press page
>Contact Us page
>Links page
I will start scanning now, should be with you in a couple of hours.
>I need to know what to do with the diagrams (throw them away?)
they fit into the text for the technology page.
Some Comments about the text:
I think we should deliver text like this in narrower columns, it makes reading easier. It looks about right on 640x480, although it could be a little narower still. What do you think?
The font group should be <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> as on the home page.
I had a brainwave last night, let me know what you think..
We should pick out key words from each paragraph and list them on the left next to the text. This provides \'speed\' (lazy readers with the essence of each section without having to read it. It may also help people take away the key points from reading the text. Wanna try it?
I\'m not sure I like the indenting at the beginning of each para, this isn\'t normal is it?
It would be nice to break up the text a bit. Generally the first thing to try is to make the titles / subtitles more interesting. Perhaps putting them in a table with bgcolor = the cream from the icons.
>I have left the navigation arrows in, even if there is no >section yet.
will need removing.
Deadline is today, can we do it?
TimJ
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11764,'Wed Sep 15 18:19:34 1999','Status Friday ',3,0,'
As far as I can see I have done everything.
There are some dummy images, which are just copies of technology.jpg,
and we need new titles
for the new sub pages:
locator_unit_title.gif,
command_and_control_title.gif,
communications_network_title.gif,
We also need a new image and title for teh mail sent script.
I have got rid of the baseurl, except on the mail_sent.
I have done the best I can with the diagrams, and moved text from
technology to product and from technology to the 3 sub pages.
love
Tim
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11765,'Wed Sep 15 18:19:34 1999','invoices',1,0,'
I have just adjusted the amounts payable for this project (previous calculation was based on an incorrect entry for time spent on promotion).
Let\'s have those invoices
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11766,'Fri Dec 11 8:45:32 1998','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11767,'Fri Dec 11 8:46:32 1998','messageboard test',1,0,'
please can you all confirm that you recieve this mail
cheers
Tim Joyce
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11768,'Fri Dec 11 9:13:23 1998','Re: messageboard test',33,11767,'
>please can you all confirm that you recieve this mail
>cheers
>Tim Joyce
That looks great. Can you change SkyGuard to Telematix on the Paneris site as well?
Ed
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11769,'Fri Dec 11 10:00:46 1998','info@telematixs.co.uk',1,0,'
The above address does not work, please advise as to the address that should be given on the telematixs contact page.
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11770,'Mon Dec 14 11:38:26 1998','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11771,'Mon Dec 14 11:39:06 1998','Noticeboard',33,0,'Posted on behalf of Ed Ross by TimJ
Please use @skyguard.com for the noticeboard e-mails for the time being. Could you please forward any of the mailto messages from the site to nmh@skyguard.com
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11772,'Mon Dec 14 11:41:20 1998','Re: Noticeboard',1,11771,'
>Please use @skyguard.com for the noticeboard e-mails for the time being. Could you please forward any of the mailto messages from the site to nmh@skyguard.com
>
circulation for this messageboard is now:
mryan@skyguard.com, mghent@skyguard.com, nmh@skyguard.com, edross@keyhaven.com
I have sorted the skyguard site out re email. I will wait for instruction before doing anything else.
','f','',121,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
122,'partners','Paneris Partners',8122,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/partners/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/partners/',1);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11773,'Wed Sep 15 17:47:42 1999','Change from projects to companies',3,0,'
The change from projects to companies was foolishly
embarked upon, and I have had to panic a bit to get the
message board to work again, however, we now have a nifty
search and replace script which means that changing node names
is now a doddle.
I have saved <a href=\'/partners/projects_to_companies_replacement.html\'>the result of the search and replace</a>
at the companies node, so check that it has not afected you adversely.
love tim
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11774,'Wed Sep 15 17:47:42 1999','perl programme',103,0,'
Not sure if this should be up yet, have looked under
.pl and found nothing, off to Fairport Convention today
but would be grateful for programme by end of weekend
if poss.
Thanks, how is you VB, may need a small programme for use with
excel.
Marion
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11775,'Wed Sep 15 17:47:42 1999','Change from companies to partners',3,0,'
The change has been made, see /partners/search_and_replace_2.shtml
for the changes made.
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11776,'Wed Sep 15 17:47:42 1999','Ownership of projects',3,0,'
Boys,
I have placed a <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/project_list.shtml\'>list</a>
of all propjects on the site.
Please read and amend (especially the graphics people).
From this we should be able to get finders fees,
project lead/management fees etc sorted out.
I would then like to see this produced from the PMS.
love
TimP
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11777,'Wed Sep 15 17:47:42 1999','Re: Ownership of projects',2,11776,'
>Boys,
>I have placed a <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/project_list.shtml\'>list</a>
>of all propjects on the site.
Looking at the columns I see "Finder", "Owner" and "Lead". I
know what a finder is, and the project lead, but what is the
"Owner"?
>Please read and amend (especially the graphics people).
>From this we should be able to get finders fees,
>project lead/management fees etc sorted out.
Don\'t we already know? How does the Owner field help us
to work this out at all?
>I would then like to see this produced from the PMS.
It will happend when we have a proper "project" page
(the current one is really the Timesheets page, I think).
>love
>TimP
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11778,'Wed Sep 15 17:47:42 1999','Re: Ownership of projects',3,11777,'
>Looking at the columns I see "Finder", "Owner" and "Lead". I
>know what a finder is, and the project lead, but what is the
>"Owner"?
It may now have become redundant, but it is a term
that we have used (in conversation <img src=\'/images/sad.gif\' border=\'0\'>).
I may be confused, but think that I <em>own</em> Iway, TimJ
owns <em>keyhaven, netalliance</em> etc.
This is also where the 5% in my earlier messages comes from,
as I am thinking that only half of the finders fee should go to
the <em>Paneris fund</em> in the case where the <em>lead</em> changes.
The above mechanism enables people to profit from previous
sales forever, which I am in favour of.
If this method is not acceptable then neither is the
employement of Paneris members by a partner other than the <em>finder</em>
without written permission from the <em>finder</em>.
yours,
willing to be corrected,
TimP
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11779,'Wed Sep 15 17:47:42 1999','Re: Ownership of projects',2,11778,'
>
>>Looking at the columns I see "Finder", "Owner" and "Lead". I
>>know what a finder is, and the project lead, but what is the
>>"Owner"?
>It may now have become redundant, but it is a term
>that we have used (in conversation <img src=\'/images/sad.gif\' border=\'0\'>).
>I may be confused, but think that I <em>own</em> Iway, TimJ
>owns <em>keyhaven, netalliance</em> etc.
>This is also where the 5% in my earlier messages comes from,
>as I am thinking that only half of the finders fee should go to
>the <em>Paneris fund</em> in the case where the <em>lead</em> changes.
>The above mechanism enables people to profit from previous
>sales forever, which I am in favour of.
>If this method is not acceptable then neither is the
>employement of Paneris members by a partner other than the <em>finder</em>
>without written permission from the <em>finder</em>.
>yours,
>willing to be corrected,
>TimP
OK, I understand now.
Owner - the person who originally introduces a partner to Paneris
Finder - the person/organisation who gets a job. Note that this entity
might be <i>owned</i> by someone else in Paneris.
Leader - the person who manages the project and (end) customer
Note that the question of whether we split the finder\'s fee into 2 lots
of 5% or not is about the relationship between a finder and it\'s
owner (if applicable). As I see it:
<ul>
<li>TimJ has agreed that his theoretical 5% ownership fee for I-Way
(including Bloomsbury) and Steven Lee (who lead us to Netalliance)
should go to the Paneris Fund
<li>TimP has (implicitly) agreed that this 5% finder\'s fee for I-Way
should go to the Paneris Fund
<li>Steven Lee has (without his knowledge) put his 5% finder\'s fee for
Netalliance into the Paneris pot.
</ul>
I wonder whether it might not be less confusing and easier to administer
if we drop the idea of an owner and splitting the 10% finder\'s fee.
What do others think?
Myles
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11780,'Thu Oct 8 22:08:00 1998','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11781,'Thu Feb 25 10:00:21 1999','websites',103,0,'
Please let me have the urls for 2 websites you have done with search engines - direcotry type please. As soon as possible, This is to persuade possible new client to go for your option rather than SD.
Thanks
Marion
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11782,'Thu Feb 25 11:51:53 1999','Re: websites',3,11781,'
>Please let me have the urls for 2 websites you have done with search engines - direcotry type please. As soon as possible, This is to persuade possible new client to go for your option rather than SD.
We have done three types of search:
WAIS Search
This builds an index of all HTML files on a site, giving fast
results from selected directories.
There are examples on http://wwwlib.jr2.ox.ac.uk and http://www.rab.co.uk/
Flatfile search
Obviousely there is the flatfile search on Paneris but it is VERY slow,
as it searches all files.
We wrote an improvement on this for http://www.bloomsbury.com/ which
maintains an index of key fields in documents, which is updated every time a key field changes.
It works, but we wouldn\'t do it that way again.
Database Search
There are a number of searches, eg property search, on http://www.iglu.com/
and similarly at http://www.ebcoxford.co.uk/
We would almost definitely use the last for a directory search.
yours
timP
this technique again:
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11783,'Wed Apr 28 16:16:25 1999','Data Protection Registration',3,0,'
Hi all,
I have just been on to the Data Protection Registrar.
It looks very much as though we need to register.
They have given us a provisional registration number of
PX4205235 under the name <b>The Paneris Collaborative</b>.
The forms will be sent to Hurst St. and there will be
a registration fee of 75gbp for three years.
yours
TimP
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11784,'Wed Apr 28 16:31:34 1999','Re: Data Protection Registration',3,11783,'
The DPR are at http://www.open.gov.uk/dpr/dprhome.htm
','f','',122,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
123,'TVlistings','TVlistings Project',8123,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/TVlistings/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/TVlistings/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11785,'Wed Sep 15 17:36:54 1999','Details of BEP',1,0,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by MylesC
Steven,
Sorry for the delay getting back to you, but busy, busy, busy.
I have had a chat with Myles and Tim (not me), who are keen on doing the BEP
project.
On the phone you mentioned a budget of 1K, if this can stretch to £1,200 it
would be prefect. The additional cost is largely due to setting up and
configuring the database. Can you let us know the back-end set-up on BEPs
server (I\'m hoping it\'s running NT and has Access installed).
Can you cc all of us in all correspondence:
tim@hoop.co.uk
tim@paneris.co.uk
mylesc@i-way.co.uk
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 171 642 1650
','f','',123,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11786,'Wed Sep 15 17:36:54 1999','Re: Details of BEP',2,11785,'Posted on behalf of Steven Lee by Mylesc
Hi Tim,
Didn\'t think you were going to get back to me on this one.
My client wants to know when you could deliver it by. I think they will
scrape up another £200.
Regards
Steven
Tim Joyce wrote:
> Steven,
>
> Sorry for the delay getting back to you, but busy, busy, busy.
>
> I have had a chat with Myles and Tim (not me), who are keen on doing
> the BEP
> project.
>
> On the phone you mentioned a budget of 1K, if this can stretch to
> £1,200 it
> would be prefect. The additional cost is largely due to setting up
> and
> configuring the database. Can you let us know the back-end set-up on
> BEPs
> server (I\'m hoping it\'s running NT and has Access installed).
>
> Can you cc all of us in all correspondence:
>
> tim@hoop.co.uk
> tim@paneris.co.uk
> mylesc@i-way.co.uk
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim Joyce
> Chief Enthusiast
> HOOP Ltd
> tim@hoop.co.uk
> http://www.hoop.co.uk
> +44 171 642 1650
','f','',123,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11787,'Wed Sep 15 17:36:54 1999','Questions about BEP',2,0,'
Steven,
Nice to talk to you earlier. As promised, here is a list of the
points that we would like answered.
1) DB system.
I intended to access a DB from Perl. We usually use a ODBC compliant
database (Access is cheap and does the job). This would require:
* Windows NT
* Access
* Perl
* DBI (a database API for Perl)
* Win32ODBC (a Perl module for accessing ODBC databases which
interfaces to DBI)
If there is such a system (proved by having a Perl CGI script print
some results from an Access database) available when the code is written,
then the price of 1200stlg is right, otherwise we would need more work
to set this up (1/2 - 1 day : approx 150-300stlg).
Note that we can certainly use other platforms and databases : do they
already have something?
2) Timescales
It would take around 5 working days to implement this system. It will
require extra time to liase with the customer and install the finished
system on the server, which we hope will be less than 5 elapsed days.
So, we could complete the project in 10 days (depending on how quick
the customer is).
3) Graphic Design
We can easily make the screens look like any of the pages already on
the BEP\'s web site. Can they confirm that this is what they want?
The only extra work required from us is to create the Windows 95
style tab buttons, which is not too hard except it would be nice to
know what colour they want them! (Default grey?).
4) Technology
I see this as being done with CGI scripts and frames. If they don\'t want
us to use frames, then we need to know very early! We can add some
javascript functionality. I now think that we could make it useable for
non-javascript people as well, so it is not such an issue about whether
they need javascript or not - it will not be compulsory for the system
to work.
5) Data
How is the data going to get into the system? The easiest solution is to
have a large (HTML) form which allows you to enter program information
on-line. I do not propose implementing an e-mail update system (mainly
due to SMTP on NT questions), certainly for the project as it is (speaking
frankly, we\'d need more money to add that - it\'s non-trivial). If BEP
already have this data, though, it might be nice to know what format it
is in, how it is stored, etc.
If you could have a chat with your contact and see whether they are still
interested in us doing this and to get answered to the questions above,
that would be great.
Let me know,
Myles
','f','',123,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11788,'Wed Sep 15 17:36:54 1999','Re: Questions about BEP',2,11787,'Posted on behalf of Steven Lee by MylesC
Hope you get this
Steven
Replies interposed
1) DB system.
I intended to access a DB from Perl. We usually use a ODBC compliant
database (Access is cheap and does the job). This would require:
* Windows NT
* Access
* Perl
* DBI (a database API for Perl)
* Win32ODBC (a Perl module for accessing ODBC databases which
interfaces to DBI)
If there is such a system (proved by having a Perl CGI script print
some results from an Access database) available when the code is
written, then the price of 1200stlg is right, otherwise we would need
more
work to set this up (1/2 - 1 day : approx 150-300stlg).
Note that we can certainly use other platforms and databases : do
they already have something?
The data is presently held in Filemaker Pro sitting on an Apple but it
could be an
Access database. The Data will each day be uploaded to the System via
file transfer
perhaps through a maintenance page you will provide? The data can be in
a variety of
file formats, you advise which will be best. The idea is that we provide
the shell or
mechanism for the Client to maintain and update.Please bear in mind that
future
proofing needs to be added, that is an allowance for new technology such
as Digital TV
(50 Channels) Is it possible to see a mock up as to how you see it
looking?
2) Timescales
It would take around 5 working days to implement this system. It will
require extra time to liase with the customer and install the
finished system on the server, which we hope will be less than 5 elapsed
days.
So, we could complete the project in 10 days (depending on how quick
the customer is).
Fine
3) Graphic Design
We can easily make the screens look like any of the pages already on
the BEP\'s web site. Can they confirm that this is what they want?
The only extra work required from us is to create the Windows 95
style tab buttons, which is not too hard except it would be nice to
know what colour they want them! (Default grey?).
Not necessary . They will put HTML around the Listing as required.
4) Technology
I see this as being done with CGI scripts and frames. If they don\'t
want us to use frames, then we need to know very early! We can add some
javascript functionality. I now think that we could make it useable
for non-javascript people as well, so it is not such an issue about
whether they need javascript or not - it will not be compulsory for the
systemto work.
Frames-fine
Please remember speed issues.
5) Data
How is the data going to get into the system? The easiest solution is
to have a large (HTML) form which allows you to enter program
information on-line. I do not
propose implementing an e-mail update system (mainly due to SMTP on NT
questions),
certainly for the project as it is
(speaking frankly, we\'d need more money to add that - it\'s non-trivial).
If BEP
already have this data, though, it might be nice to know what format it
is in, how it is stored,
etc.
See response to 1
','f','',123,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
124,'polestar','polestar Interface',8124,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/polestar/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/polestar/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11789,'Tue Feb 2 13:16:06 1999','hi',1,0,'
Lee,
I am moving our debate to the messageboard system, so that everyone can join in.
I will post up correspondance so far.
TimJ
','f','',124,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11790,'Tue Feb 2 13:16:58 1999','Polestar Rocks???',1,0,'Posted on behalf of Lee by TimJ
Okay, we in the same business, but we\'re hot at databases/programming, we work with the following technolgies.
SQL SERVER
ORACLE
INFORMIX
ODBC
ASP
CGI
NT/UNIX
Interested...?
lee@polestar.co.uk
:-)
Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
P.S. Found your address on http://www.unmetered.org.uk/interactive/backers.htm
','f','',124,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11791,'Tue Feb 2 13:19:12 1999','Security...',1,0,'Posted on behalf of Lee by TimJ
Tim, I don\'t know if you know this but I can seem to access all of your private invoices? and edit them..and all of your
letters etc etc...
No maybe is somekinda test data? or you just don\'t mind people knowing you business, but editing??
have you got a security problem, or is are you taking the piss?????
Weird....
Lee :-)
(like the site!)
','f','',124,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11792,'Tue Feb 2 13:20:15 1999','Re: Security...',1,11791,'
Lee,
Well done for doing a little exploration, not a lot of people bother.
>have you got a security problem, or is are you taking the piss?????
we are taking the piss.
Basically, we believe strongly in openness, and adhocracy. this means we
(and everybody) can do what they like as long as it\'s not in secret.
So, this means that all pages on paneris are easily amendable by everybody.
This has created a interesting phenonemon, Paneris genuinely looks like a
virtual office (everyone has their corner, it all looks very messy etc.)
We have only every had one person abuse the site (they put "baz woz here" on
the home page) in 2 years, and so security has not been high on our list of
concerns. We do get meaningful traffic.
Some of our customers insist on more security (see
www.paneris.co.uk/partners/apr for example), but this is easily applied.
>Tim, I don\'t know if you know this but I can seem to access all of your
private invoices? and edit them..and all of your
>letters etc etc...
The invoicing system has been the most recent to be added, and really would
bennefit from better security.
>
>No maybe is somekinda test data? or you just don\'t mind people knowing you
business, but editing??
no, it\'s real data, but why would you want to change it?, except if you
wanted to do your own invoicing on there, in which case feel free.
>Weird....
>(like the site!)
cool, you wanna join the community? we have fun and do good work.
>Okay, we in the same business,
just been to polestar.co.uk, looks nice. You guys are a bit M$ centric.
When you say you are in the same business, obviously we both do web design
and back end dev, but is polestar a real company, or is it a network (like
paneris?). Do you work at home?
>but we\'re hot at databases/programming, we work with the following
technologies.
>SQL SERVER
>ORACLE
>INFORMIX
>ODBC
>ASP
>CGI
>NT/UNIX
We do much the same stuff, but more from a linux perspective, so our list
would go MySQL, Postgres, Perl DBI::DBD, JDBC, Servlets etc. I hate ASP.
We are trying to concentrate on the database stuff behind sites (it\'s much
more fun). HOOP is pitched at getting a sale, and really needs updating.
>Interested...?
sure, you have been to www.paneris.co.uk, which is our community. Feel free
to join up, we do get work in, but if you put up a short CV, we\'ll know what
you can do etc. Do you have any reference sites?
BTW, you any good with hardware specs? Is it better to have 2 servers for a
large site (1 running the DB, and the other running the Webserver etc), or
just do it all on one (with 2 processors)?
TTFN
Tim Joyce
','f','',124,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11793,'Tue Feb 2 13:21:15 1999','Re: Re: Security...',1,11792,'Posted on behalf of Lee by TimJ
Tim, interesting!!!.. Okay...first ...confession...
on http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/index.html
I managed to modify the first line and added...HELLOMARK...
but I can\'t seem to change it back, its seems locked..???? help!!
Okay, see my comments below...
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Joyce [SMTP:tim@hoop.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:38 AM
To: lee@polestar.co.uk
Subject: Re: Security...
Lee,
Well done for doing a little exploration, not a lot of people bother.
Yeah, I like the intranet side, its cool... but you should really checkout your security.!!,
as it would be easy to add some cgi scripts, i.e
cat /etc/passwd | mail lee@polestar.co.uk etc etc, so be careful!!!
add a password cracker....
log in as root
rm -r *
*BYE BYE*
now, I would\'nt do that..but some asshole will!!
>have you got a security problem, or is are you taking the piss?????
we are taking the piss.
(yeah, but again...you gotta think about other machines on the internet, with a bit of poking around
I could use your machine to attack others....Is this why your ISP is upset with you??? hehehhe?? :-).
So, this means that all pages on paneris are easily amendable by everybody.
This has created a interesting phenonemon, Paneris genuinely looks like a
virtual office (everyone has their corner, it all looks very messy etc.),
Yes, I like it....we try and develop the same feel here, it is a proper office but
we\'re a young company and we beleive in hardcore technical skill rather than clueless managers
and salesmen. :-)
We have only every had one person abuse the site (they put "baz woz here" on
the home page) in 2 years, and so security has not been high on our list of
concerns. We do get meaningful traffic.
(yeah, okay..make me feel gulity...!!! sorry about that :-( hehheh )
Some of our customers insist on more security (see
www.paneris.co.uk/partners/apr for example), but this is easily applied.
>Tim, I don\'t know if you know this but I can seem to access all of your
private invoices? and edit them..and all of your
>letters etc etc...
The invoicing system has been the most recent to be added, and really would
bennefit from better security. (yeah......!!)
>
>No maybe is somekinda test data? or you just don\'t mind people knowing you
business, but editing??
no, it\'s real data, but why would you want to change it?, except if you
wanted to do your own invoicing on there, in which case feel free.
(hahaha, cool!)
>Weird....
>(like the site!)
cool, you wanna join the community? we have fun and do good work.
Yes, I know...I\'ve checked some of your sites...nice stuff! We\'d love to join up,
but can we join as a company??? or it it indivuals only????
>Okay, we in the same business,
just been to polestar.co.uk, looks nice. You guys are a bit M$ centric.
When you say you are in the same business, obviously we both do web design
and back end dev, but is polestar a real company, or is it a network (like
paneris?). Do you work at home?
Well, its a bit of both...you could say our office is home, because we live here!
its rather chilled out, we work try to working on interesting projects (i.e. no year 200 crap!),
our projects range from running a powerstations network, to selling records from an e commerce site!
>but we\'re hot at databases/programming, we work with the following
technologies.
>SQL SERVER
>ORACLE
>INFORMIX
>ODBC
>ASP
>CGI
>NT/UNIX
We do much the same stuff, but more from a linux perspective, so our list
would go MySQL, Postgres, Perl DBI::DBD, JDBC, Servlets etc. I hate ASP.
Yeah, just got my new pentium 450 running linux. I\'m a stong follower of open source code
development. We look a bit MS because basicly they send a shed load of software now and then,
and sql server it the first database we had lying around. We\'ve been using Informix for as long as I
can remember, but sql server seems to be working just fine at the moment. Although I come from
a hardcore unix background, I do like ASP..and it does speed up our development time alot. We also
seem to know a lot guys messing with visual basic, and to upgrade (?) them to ASP is a doddle. Unix
can be a mountain to the unenlighend. I going to run a few train courses...perhaps I can convert them yet.
Seriously. if we get any heavy stuff, we\'ll breakout the unix development kit...and get busy!! :-)))
What MySql and the other linux databases...we\'re looking for a robust database for linux..?
any idea\'s?
We are trying to concentrate on the database stuff behind sites (it\'s much
more fun). HOOP is pitched at getting a sale, and really needs updating.
yeah, we need to upgrade our site too, never have the time.
>Interested...?
sure, you have been to www.paneris.co.uk, which is our community. Feel free
to join up, we do get work in, but if you put up a short CV, we\'ll know what
you can do etc. Do you have any reference sites?
Yes, we can send you a list of them if you wish.
BTW, you any good with hardware specs? Is it better to have 2 servers for a
large site (1 running the DB, and the other running the Webserver etc), or
just do it all on one (with 2 processors)?
Well, hardware... Hmmm.. I\'m the systems administrator here....so it my job to know
I guess ;-). Okay...I\'d probably get two machines, with the option to upgrade to dual later.
Just make sure you get loads of RAM. My new linux machines has 256megs, and it fly\'s....
so go for memory always!!!!
databases are a memory/disk bottlelneck anyway. Only when you have many concurrent users then
processor becomes and issue.
By seperating the web site and the database server, its harder to manage, but you can do groovy things with
the database. i.e.place behind a firewall or locate it on its own subnet for enhanced secuirty. I heard that
dejanews run on a cluster of linux severs, don\'t know how true that is...but it makes sense!!
Okay, speak to you soon, perhaps we can do a little business :-)...
I read that your ISP is a bit shite, what are you unhappy with? maybe we can help you with that ;-)..
Cheers,
Lee Hughes
Director of Traffic
Polestar...............
','f','',124,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11794,'Tue Feb 2 14:27:54 1999','Re: Re: Re: Security...',1,11793,'
>Tim, interesting!!!.. Okay...first ...confession...
>on http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/index.html
>I managed to modify the first line and added...HELLOMARK...
>but I can\'t seem to change it back, its seems locked..???? help!!
don\'t worry, my college watched it happen and fixed it.
>Okay, see my comments below...
>Yeah, I like the intranet side, its cool... but you should really checkout your security.!!,
>as it would be easy to add some cgi scripts, i.e
>cat /etc/passwd | mail lee@polestar.co.uk etc etc, so be careful!!!
>add a password cracker....
>log in as root
>rm -r *
>*BYE BYE*
>now, I would\'nt do that..but some asshole will!!
We are currently rebuilding the site using servlets and www.webmacro.org (check it out - very cool). this should address all cgi security concerns.
>>have you got a security problem, or is are you taking the piss?????
>we are taking the piss.
>(yeah, but again...you gotta think about other machines on the internet, with a bit of poking around
>I could use your machine to attack others....Is this why your ISP is upset with you??? hehehhe?? :-).
no, different isp. this site is hosted by dircon, who are very good and nice. If you are serious about hacking, we are unlikely to be able to stop you (or anyone else). so the theory goes: "if you dont put up your fists, you are unlikely to get punched". we figured we\'d tests this until someone hit us.
>So, this means that all pages on paneris are easily amendable by everybody.
>This has created a interesting phenonemon, Paneris genuinely looks like a
>virtual office (everyone has their corner, it all looks very messy etc.),
>Yes, I like it....we try and develop the same feel here, it is a proper office but
>we\'re a young company and we beleive in hardcore technical skill rather than clueless managers
>and salesmen. :-)
we don\'t have salesmen or managers, on the basis that they interfer with writing good code, and delivering correct solutions. Projects are managed, but it\'s just one of us programmers who temporarily lowers themselves to the task :)
>>
>>No maybe is somekinda test data? or you just don\'t mind people knowing you
>business, but editing??
>no, it\'s real data, but why would you want to change it?, except if you
>wanted to do your own invoicing on there, in which case feel free.
>(hahaha, cool!)
seriously, if you have a distributed team, systems like this are a godsend. paneris really helps us deliver. I have created this node for you, so feel free to use it. have you been into the time recording system?
> We\'d love to join up,
>but can we join as a company??? or it it indivuals only????
fine to join as a company, but good to know about all the individuals. I suggest you use this polestar node form company stuff, and encourage your collegues to sign up under /people
>>Okay, we in the same business,
>just been to polestar.co.uk, looks nice. You guys are a bit M$ centric.
>When you say you are in the same business, obviously we both do web design
>and back end dev, but is polestar a real company, or is it a network (like
>paneris?). Do you work at home?
>Well, its a bit of both...you could say our office is home, because we live here!
:)
>its rather chilled out, we work try to working on interesting projects (i.e. no year 200 crap!),
Latest news from www.microsoft.com:
due to technical problems windoze 2000 delivery has been delayed to Q1 1901
I quit my city job, and started this venture when I realised that the next few years were going to be spent fixing the bug I had introduced over the previous 5.
Are you stockpiling food? have your got a gun?
:)
>our projects range from running a powerstations network, to selling records from an e commerce site!
cool, we noticed a 3 fold increase in ecommerce just after xmas (did you get the same?) . I think that many of the 1st time pc users who got them over xmas are not bothered by security concers. This year will be huge for ecommerce.
>Yeah, just got my new pentium 450 running linux.
cool, we have just put up a 400MHz box (http://194.128.98.74/), but as you can see, we need a few moments to get it doing anything.
> I\'m a stong follower of open source code
>development.
>We look a bit MS because basicly they send a shed load of software now and then,
>and sql server it the first database we had lying around. We\'ve been using Informix for as long as I
>can remember, but sql server seems to be working just fine at the moment. Although I come from
>a hardcore unix background,
>I do like ASP..and it does speed up our development time alot. We also
no ASP is wrong. I have done 2 ASP/COM sites and it\'s horrible. I just can\'t stand the way the source looks (how many differnet ways of commenting a line do you have to use? (4!)) Especially with client side javascript thrown in.
JScript (i think this is what it is called) on the server side is horribly broken. I can\'t bring myself to program in basic.
>seem to know a lot guys messing with visual basic, and to upgrade (?) them to ASP is a doddle. Unix
>can be a mountain to the unenlighend. I going to run a few train courses...perhaps I can convert them yet.
compromise: java
nice IDEs, easier that VB. Have you had a look at JSP?
>Seriously. if we get any heavy stuff, we\'ll breakout the unix development kit...and get busy!! :-)))
good. let us know, we might have written some technology that is useful
>What MySql and the other linux databases...we\'re looking for a robust database for linux..?
>any idea\'s?
MySQL is apparently robust and fine.
We have gone with Postgres on the new server, I will let you know if we get problems.
>Do you have any reference sites?
>Yes, we can send you a list of them if you wish.
stick them up.
>BTW, you any good with hardware specs? Is it better to have 2 servers for a
>large site (1 running the DB, and the other running the Webserver etc), or
>just do it all on one (with 2 processors)?
>Well, hardware... Hmmm.. I\'m the systems administrator here....so it my job to know
>I guess ;-). Okay...I\'d probably get two machines, with the option to upgrade to dual later.
>Just make sure you get loads of RAM. My new linux machines has 256megs, and it fly\'s....
>so go for memory always!!!!
>databases are a memory/disk bottlelneck anyway. Only when you have many concurrent users then
>processor becomes and issue.
>By seperating the web site and the database server, its harder to manage, but you can do groovy things with
>the database. i.e.place behind a firewall or locate it on its own subnet for enhanced secuirty. I heard that
>dejanews run on a cluster of linux severs, don\'t know how true that is...but it makes sense!!
thanks.
>
>Okay, speak to you soon, perhaps we can do a little business :-)...
good idea. where are you based?
>I read that your ISP is a bit shite, what are you unhappy with? maybe we can help you with that ;-)..
YES. Do you do ISP services, or do you work with anyone good.
We need general services for our customers:
Virtual Servers (NT and Linux) with Perl and DB
Hosted Servers
Dial up and leased line accounts
mail accounts
(ideally) Virtual Server Java Servlet Support (with DB)
24 hour support (1 ish hour response time outside of office hours)
Backups
Stats
Nice, patient help desk staff
Based in Southern UK.
Someone who understands us and we can do business with.
Too much to ask?
>Director of Traffic
:)
TimJ
','f','',124,0,0);
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125,'shuttle','shuttle Interface',8125,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/shuttle/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/shuttle/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11795,'Fri Dec 18 14:50:20 1998','Initial Query',3,0,'Posted on behalf of Jane Stancombe by TimP
Hi Tim
Hope you\'re OK, long time no speak. I\'m working for Shuttle, no longer on
my own with F1 - far less stress!!
Reason for contacting you is that we\'ve got a couple of websites inhouse
which are OK but we want to do some funky CGI or Java bits and also include
a search facility. We can\'t do those bits in-house.
Could you possibly give me a ring to discuss?
Thanks, look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards
Jane
_____________________________________
Jane Stancombe
Shuttle Technology
Tel: +44 118 977 0441
Fax: +44 118 977 1709
Email: jstancombe@shuttletech.com
Web: www.shuttletech.com / www.memorytech.com
Ever forgotten your system password?
The MT Digit, fingerprint recognition solution provides an effective and
secure low cost alternative for system access.
For more details, see http://www.memorytech.com/digit.htm
','f','',125,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11796,'Fri Dec 18 14:53:05 1998','Telephone Contact',3,0,'
Jane wishes to have the page <a href=\'http://www.datawise-online.com/test/Products/product_index.htm\'>http://www.datawise-online.com/test/Products/product_index.htm</a>
improved to include a javascript mouseover to explanatory
text in the big window, plus coloured rollovers.
In addition she would like a site search installed.
TimP
PS TimJ may have dealt with Jane before.
PPS I might like to do this, but is anyone else particularly keen?
','f','',125,0,0);
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INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11797,'Wed Sep 15 17:31:16 1999','Counter documented',3,0,'
I have upgraded the countdown to display correctly under
most browsers.
Can you comment on the look of the red LED numbers.
What format should the countdown be displyed in?
yours
TimP
','f','',126,0,0);
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127,'sparks','sparks Interface',8127,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sparks/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sparks/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11798,'Wed Sep 15 17:31:16 1999','Introductory meeting',3,0,'
Hi all,
Thankyou for a pleasant and productive meeting yesterday evening.
To summarise:
Paneris would be very happy to subcontract to Sparks, even for
small jobs which are primarily for goodwill.
Paneris would be very happy to pass on any work
when we do not have the capacity to perform it ourselves.
I have set up a node for Sparks (from which I am sending this)
at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/sparks/
The red button on the site (Create a new project) can be used to
create a new project node on the site.
Paneris currently have the following skills available:
Java:- TimJ, MylesC, WilliamC, WilliamS
Perl:- TimJ, MylesC, WilliamC, WilliamS, TimP
C++ :- TimJ, MylesC, WilliamC, williamS
SQL:- TimJ, MylesC, TimP (at least)
Graphics:- ColinR, KeithH
Editing:- MarionH, DaveH, JustineE
Details are given in full at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/
Even should work not emerge in the short term we should still
keep in touch, I will try to arrange a joint corporate night out
later in the year.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',127,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11799,'Wed Jun 16 15:06:32 1999','Network Planner Required',117,0,'Posted on behalf of David Stone by TimP
Tim,
Long time no see. Thanks for inviting us to quote on that job.
I was wondering if you could help me. I am looking for a network planner,
someone who has set up an ISPs network and would like to set up another one.
Can you think of anyone?
Perhaps you could give us a ring as I seem to have lost your phone number.
Office: 01865 242406
Mobile: 0958 663301
Yours
David Stone, Director
Sparks Computer Solutions Ltd
','f','',127,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11800,'Wed Jun 16 15:11:53 1999','Re: Network Planner Required',3,11799,'
>
>Tim,
>Long time no see. Thanks for inviting us to quote on that job.
No problem,
>I was wondering if you could help me. I am looking for a network planner,
>someone who has set up an ISPs network and would like to set up another one.
>Can you think of anyone?
No I cannot, but maybe another paneris person may be able to help -
Will, Kira, Rachel?
>Perhaps you could give us a ring as I seem to have lost your phone number.
>Office: 01865 242406
>Mobile: 0958 663301
yours
timP
','f','',127,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11801,'Wed Jun 16 15:33:31 1999','Re: Re: Network Planner Required',1,11800,'
>>I was wondering if you could help me. I am looking for a network planner,
>>someone who has set up an ISPs network and would like to set up another one.
>>Can you think of anyone?
I got a mate (jason) who is in network contracting. He is cc\'d, and I left a message on his mobile.
cheers
timj
','f','',127,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11802,'Wed Jun 16 15:55:21 1999','Re: Re: Re: Network Planner Required',122,11801,'Posted to the old system by Jason Warwick (warwickj@dial.pipex.com)
>>>I was wondering if you could help me. I am looking for a network planner,
>>>someone who has set up an ISPs network and would like to set up another one.
>>>Can you think of anyone?
>I got a mate (jason) who is in network contracting. He is cc\'d, and I left a message on his mobile.
>cheers
>timj
I can almost certainly help with this, I know a few people who have the relevent skills. It really depends on whats required, size and price (you want to pay). Give me a few more details and I\'ll see what I can do.
By the way I\'m working in New York until Friday, so no point phoning me.
Jason Warwick
','f','',127,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11803,'Thu Jun 17 14:01:55 1999','Re: Re: Network Planner Required',99,11800,'Posted on behalf of Rachel by TimP
multiboard@paneris.co.uk wrote:
>
> Reply to this message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/sparks/messages/5.shtml
>
> Subject: Re: Network Planner Required
> From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
> >
> >Tim,
>
> >Long time no see. Thanks for inviting us to quote on that job.
>
> No problem,
>
> >I was wondering if you could help me. I am looking for a network planner,
> >someone who has set up an ISPs network and would like to set up another one.
> >Can you think of anyone?
>
> No I cannot, but maybe another paneris person may be able to help -
> Will, Kira, Rachel?
Kira\'s a bit too busy right now for that though yes, she\'s capable. I\'m
rapidly gaining experience in this area but probably don\'t have enough
just yet.
--
Rachel
','f','',127,0,0);
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128,'upload','upload Project',8128,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/upload/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/upload/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11804,'Wed Sep 15 17:31:16 1999','Upload Script Spec',118,0,'Posted on behalf of Jasper Smith by TimP
Tim-
There is the countdown project and another, Web-board type project which you may be able to quote for together.
The Web-board needs to take input from one source and place the results (an essay) into a password protected directory on the Sparks server. The original author would not then have access to the file.
Let me have a genuine quote, plus a \'lowest you would go\' quote and I\'ll try to sell it to the client. They have asked for these features, so it isn\'t as though we are trying to make a cold sale.
Give me a ring if you need to clarify anything.
<img src="http://www.sparks.co.uk/jnbsig.gif">
-Jasper
<hr>
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129,'Edit_Systems','Edit_Systems Project',8129,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/Edit_Systems/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/Edit_Systems/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11805,'Wed Jun 9 13:35:37 1999','Project Initiation',32,0,'
Hi Myles,
As you are no doubt aware, I have created a the new node for the edit systems project. The node is password protected so when you need to get in give me a bell.
I am continuing to work on the spec, much of which represents a reiteration of functions and behaviours in various tools. The consequence of this is that you may be able to share code between a range of tools, but even if you don\'t, it should be pretty obvious what is required in each case.
I have also removed the need for a separate Accounts Admin tool by integrating the functions into the Diaries and Hints & Tips tools following the methodology employed in the News section for categories with very few exceptions. I hope this will not simplify construction of the tools, but also make it more "user-friendly".
As I will no doubt have most of the spec re-written today, I would like us to get together and go over the spec so-far together to high-light any concerns etc. As I mentioned before most of the specs for the individual tools will represent lengthy reiterations of functions from other tools. I therefore feel it would be most productive given the time scales for us to get the meeting out of the way and for me to type up (cut and paste, cut and paste) the remainder of the final spec and build the prototypes, which should then represent our finalised agreement. When would be convenient for you?
I am hoping to arrange for hosting to begin for the front-end site as of 14th June. Please advise as to how any delay in this might affect you ability to complete the work on target so that I may in turn advise our client should any such circumstance arise.
ColinR
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11806,'Wed Jun 9 13:39:47 1999','Project Initiation (ammendment)',32,11805,'
Please note this ammendment to previous message)
>I have also removed the need for a separate Accounts Admin tool by integrating the functions into the Diaries and Hints & Tips tools following the methodology employed in the News section for categories with very few exceptions. I hope this will not <U>only</U> simplify construction of the tools, but also make it more "user-friendly".
Apologies :)
ColinR
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11807,'Wed Jun 9 14:52:05 1999','Re: Project Initiation',2,11805,'
>Hi Myles,
>As you are no doubt aware, I have created a the new node for the edit systems project. The node is password protected so when you need to get in give me a bell.
>I am continuing to work on the spec, much of which represents a reiteration of functions and behaviours in various tools. The consequence of this is that you may be able to share code between a range of tools, but even if you don\'t, it should be pretty obvious what is required in each case.
>I have also removed the need for a separate Accounts Admin tool by integrating the functions into the Diaries and Hints & Tips tools following the methodology employed in the News section for categories with very few exceptions. I hope this will not simplify construction of the tools, but also make it more "user-friendly".
>As I will no doubt have most of the spec re-written today, I would like us to get together and go over the spec so-far together to high-light any concerns etc. As I mentioned before most of the specs for the individual tools will represent lengthy reiterations of functions from other tools. I therefore feel it would be most productive given the time scales for us to get the meeting out of the way and for me to type up (cut and paste, cut and paste) the remainder of the final spec and build the prototypes, which should then represent our finalised agreement. When would be convenient for you?
Super. What about tonight after work? Around 6pm?
To me, though, the prototypes (skeletons) are more useful than the specs.
>I am hoping to arrange for hosting to begin for the front-end site as of 14th June. Please advise as to how any delay in this might affect you ability to complete the work on target so that I may in turn advise our client should any such circumstance arise.
We can put up demos on our development server, so we only need
worry that the site is available at least 3 working days before
the stuff from this project is due to made live.
>ColinR
Myles
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11808,'Wed Jun 9 15:47:20 1999','Re: Re: Project Initiation',32,11807,'
>>As I will no doubt have most of the spec re-written today, I would like us to get together and go over the spec so-far together to high-light any concerns etc. As I mentioned before most of the specs for the individual tools will represent lengthy reiterations of functions from other tools. I therefore feel it would be most productive given the time scales for us to get the meeting out of the way and for me to type up (cut and paste, cut and paste) the remainder of the final spec and build the prototypes, which should then represent our finalised agreement. When would be convenient for you?
>Super. What about tonight after work? Around 6pm?
Probably a bit tricky. I would prefer to get together during office hours more now that the project is a goer.
It might be logical for you to pop over here as I have all the documentation etc. to hand on my computer. Would this afternoon suit you? Or would you prefer tommorrow?
>To me, though, the prototypes (skeletons) are more useful than the specs.
Agreed, but I will need to finalise the spec with you before I can usefully complete them. The pages themselves to be templated are very simple, so you may even be able to make these up for me to style later, provided you know the access structure.
>>I am hoping to arrange for hosting to begin for the front-end site as of 14th June. Please advise as to how any delay in this might affect you ability to complete the work on target so that I may in turn advise our client should any such circumstance arise.
>We can put up demos on our development server, so we only need
>worry that the site is available at least 3 working days before
>the stuff from this project is due to made live.
Cool.
Colin
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11809,'Wed Jun 9 16:15:35 1999','Re: Re: Re: Project Initiation',2,11808,'
>>>As I will no doubt have most of the spec re-written today, I would like us to get together and go over the spec so-far together to high-light any concerns etc. As I mentioned before most of the specs for the individual tools will represent lengthy reiterations of functions from other tools. I therefore feel it would be most productive given the time scales for us to get the meeting out of the way and for me to type up (cut and paste, cut and paste) the remainder of the final spec and build the prototypes, which should then represent our finalised agreement. When would be convenient for you?
>>Super. What about tonight after work? Around 6pm?
>Probably a bit tricky. I would prefer to get together during office hours more now that the project is a goer.
>It might be logical for you to pop over here as I have all the documentation etc. to hand on my computer. Would this afternoon suit you? Or would you prefer tommorrow?
Tomorrow (it\'s a bit late now). I\'ll give you a quick bell tonight.
Myles
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11810,'Fri Jun 11 11:44:35 1999','Project Documents',32,0,'
Hi Myles,
I have know uploaded HTML versions of the various project documents to the Edit_System node.
I have included gifs of the relevant interface thumbnails in the appropriate documents for online reference.
Let me know how you get on building the tools. I will be working on the front-end HTML samples later today.
See you later.
ColinR
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11811,'Fri Jun 11 12:28:34 1999','Re: Project Documents',32,11810,'
Hi Myle,
I have now also uploaded the working prototype to the TSL node
for your reference together with the project documents.
ColinR
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11812,'Fri Jun 11 13:28:15 1999','Re: Re: Project Documents',32,11811,'
Hi Myles,
I have now reuploaded the working prototype with HTML and
image ammendments as discussed yesterday regarding category
deletion and editing.
ColinR
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11813,'Tue Jun 15 18:26:25 1999','Progress update',32,0,'
Hi Myles,
I am currently trying to sort out the hosting of the site and expect to have things up and running soon.
How is progress going with the edit system? When will you need the front-end HTML pages by? If I get the hosting arranged you could probably download them from there and we can both work directly onto the site.
Colin
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11814,'Fri Jun 18 15:49:38 1999','Domain Name for Speedo Site',32,0,'
Hi Myles,
Well done getting Ganesh sorted out.
Just thought I\'d let you know that the domain we will be using for the Speedo site may now be www.speedo.com.
This was recently in use by the US company, but know seems likely to be a "portal" page on the front of this new site into both the US site and the new site we are working on.
The implications for you at this time are that you will need to make sure that the paths you use in your code do not reference "http://www.speedo.net" but instead "/".
This is pretty obvious, particularly as we intend to reuse much of the code on other sites and I image you are already doing this. However, I thought I\'d better drop you a note just in case.
Maybe see you in the boozer tonight?
ColinR
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11815,'Mon Jun 21 19:56:10 1999','Re: Domain Name for Speedo Site',32,11814,'
Hi Myles,
Antony Freeman sent me an email to let me know that the domain
name speedo.net has still not been reassigned to them. I have
let him know what the situation is regarding a possible move to
speedo.com, and asked that we go ahead with hosting for development
purposes, with access provided using an IP address until I can sort
this out with the client.
Hopefully I can get this sorted out by Wednesday and get everything
back on track.
I took a look at the generic system so far using PFETrack data, and
it all seems to be going well. I think their may be a couple of HTML
things to sort out, but it may simply be that you chose not to use
them in the generic version.
Firstly, please note that in the lists of editable records, entries
are visually separated by white space, and that the table cells
should have valign="top" attributes so that the data "hangs down"
from the top line when wrapping.
Other than that, looks good so far and I\'m looking forward to seeing
the bespoke version tommorrow (fingers crossed).
ColinR
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11816,'Mon Jun 21 19:56:23 1999','Re: Domain Name for Speedo Site',32,11814,'
Hi Myles,
Antony Freeman sent me an email to let me know that the domain
name speedo.net has still not been reassigned to them. I have
let him know what the situation is regarding a possible move to
speedo.com, and asked that we go ahead with hosting for development
purposes, with access provided using an IP address until I can sort
this out with the client.
Hopefully I can get this sorted out by Wednesday and get everything
back on track.
I took a look at the generic system so far using PFETrack data, and
it all seems to be going well. I think their may be a couple of HTML
things to sort out, but it may simply be that you chose not to use
them in the generic version.
Firstly, please note that in the lists of editable records, entries
are visually separated by white space, and that the table cells
should have valign="top" attributes so that the data "hangs down"
from the top line when wrapping.
Other than that, looks good so far and I\'m looking forward to seeing
the bespoke version tommorrow (fingers crossed).
ColinR
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11817,'Mon Jun 21 22:04:57 1999','First Demo now available',2,0,'
A demo of the edit system, as applied to the first site
using it, is available from:
http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/SpeedoAdmin
At present I have not included the user/login system
which I will attempt tommorrow.
Other than any comments/alterations you have for this,
I think we just need to get the user side done (when
you have finished the pages and made then available).
Regards,
Myles
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11818,'Mon Jun 21 22:20:19 1999','Re: Re: Domain Name for Speedo Site',2,11815,'
>Hi Myles,
[snip]
>Firstly, please note that in the lists of editable records, entries
>are visually separated by white space, and that the table cells
>should have valign="top" attributes so that the data "hangs down"
>from the top line when wrapping.
I\'ve changed the valign.
As for the line separating them, that worked \'cos each line
was a separate table. This meant that the columns did not line
up which looked bad and worked even worse. So it is now one
big table, but you can\'t use cellspacing to separate them without
getting vertical lines. You can use:
<tr><td bgcolor=\'#ffffff\'></td></tr>
but it\'s 2*cellpadding + cellspacing high. Can you think of a
solution without making each row a separate table again?
Myles
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11819,'Tue Jun 29 16:26:40 1999','Re: First Demo now available',32,11817,'
Hi Myle,
Hope you had a good weekend.
I have compiled a list of the required templates as I see it
which I can email to you tommorrow.
Also I have just about finished the sample pages which you
will need to make them up.
Additionally I have a list of fixes for the edit system, most
of which I think are things you were intending to implement
this week. I have also included the few items we discussed on
the phone last week for your reference.
The virtual domain is now up and running so you may want to
port everything onto the live site when I upload the fixed
pages.
Give me a ring when you get up tommorrow and we can set the
adgenda for completion over the coming week.
Cheers!
ColinR
','f','',129,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
130,'RacketClub','RacketClub Project',8130,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/RacketClub/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/RacketClub/',5);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11820,'Fri Nov 27 16:37:50 1998','Comments?',2,0,'
Dear all,
Could you have a look at the proposal I have put together for
a RacketClub:
/partners/tsl/RacketClub/
username: racketclub
password: wotaclub
I have used the project documents (very good indeed) and feel
that it\'s got most stuff we (Paneris and the partner) need, but
I would appreciate it if someone could have a look at the costings
(in the implementation plan).
BTW, TSL are ColinR\'s new employers. Their details aren\'t filled in
properly - could you do that Colin? Note that Colin will be the
partner contact and will be therefore be putting his finder\'s fee
in the Paneris fund in the future, although he is self-employed for
this project and so _will_ receive the money this time.
Thanks,
Myles
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11821,'Fri Nov 27 19:21:03 1998','Re: Comments?',4,11820,'
>Could you have a look at the proposal I have put together for
>a RacketClub:
I like it a lot.
You haven\'t got an architecture plan but then you don\'t
have an absolutely firm functional spec yet.
It\'s never clear quite where the line between a requirements
spec and an outline functional spec should fall. To me it
seems you have got it right.
>I would appreciate it if someone could have a look at the costings
>(in the implementation plan).
Is the 24 hours for the admin system assuming that you are
going to use Tim\'s generic front end?
You don\'t have provision for getting the ""provided""
server to actually work :).
Talk to me about getting rid of the inelegant magic
variable system in Template.pm and using the prettier
new one.
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11822,'Fri Nov 27 21:27:14 1998','Spelling',4,11820,'
I fixed some spelling in your documents. How much do we
think customers care about these things? Is it a big strain
to run a spellcheck in PFE or Netscape Composer?
(Should you all be using emacs anyway? It thought
`sponser\' should be `sponger\' (well, 2nd choice after
`sponsor\' ...))
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11823,'Sat Nov 28 14:24:04 1998','Re: Re: Comments?',2,11821,'
>>Could you have a look at the proposal I have put together for
>>a RacketClub:
>I like it a lot.
>You haven\'t got an architecture plan but then you don\'t
>have an absolutely firm functional spec yet.
Indeed, although the architecture doc will basically be
"use the same architecture as Iglu".
>It\'s never clear quite where the line between a requirements
>spec and an outline functional spec should fall. To me it
>seems you have got it right.
>>I would appreciate it if someone could have a look at the costings
>>(in the implementation plan).
>Is the 24 hours for the admin system assuming that you are
>going to use Tim\'s generic front end?
Yes
>You don\'t have provision for getting the ""provided""
>server to actually work :).
That\'s because it is expected it to work. It\'s in there
explicitly that they need to do that! But the time for
"installing and customising" the main modules (templates
etc) are intended to cover this. And if they don\'t we
know who hasn\'t met their obligations.
>Talk to me about getting rid of the inelegant magic
>variable system in Template.pm and using the prettier
>new one.
Will do.
All in all the (document about the) docs have made doing
this spec a joy (it\'s the first time _ever_ I think that
I have woken up and thought - "A nice days work ahead doing
a spec". Seriously.) And I think the docs have met their objectives
of making at least me feel happy about what\'s going on.
Thanks again.
Myles
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11824,'Sat Nov 28 14:29:28 1998','Re: Spelling',2,11822,'
>I fixed some spelling in your documents. How much do we
>think customers care about these things? Is it a big strain
>to run a spellcheck in PFE or Netscape Composer?
Isn\'t it endearing and a sure sign of a compentant tecchie? :-)
I realised that Keith at SecureTrading wasn\'t really the person
I should be talking to when he started correcting my spelling
mishtakes!
>(Should you all be using emacs anyway? It thought
>`sponser\' should be `sponger\' (well, 2nd choice after
>`sponsor\' ...))
Emacs? do you mean "Macs" or "e-mail" (thanks Word :-)
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11825,'Mon Nov 30 9:20:30 1998','Re: Re: Spelling',1,11824,'
>>I fixed some spelling in your documents. How much do we
>>think customers care about these things? Is it a big strain
>>to run a spellcheck in PFE or Netscape Composer?
Is there an OSS spell checker we can put on panerisII, it\'s my biggest problem with modifable web space?
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11826,'Mon Nov 30 11:17:09 1998','Re: Re: Re: Spelling',4,11825,'
yes, ispell
It\'s very comprehensive (33 languages or something ...).
The main thing alleged to be wrong with it is that its
suggestions are less accurate than for example Word\'s.
I haven\'t especially noticed this---I practically never
use it but it has always seemed to work pretty well.
We would have some serious fun making a cgi or servlet
interface to it ... ;-) I think we might have to resort
to javascript.
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11827,'Mon Nov 30 23:01:55 1998','Re: Comments?',3,11820,'
>Dear all,
>Could you have a look at the proposal I have put together for
>a RacketClub:
[snip]
>I have used the project documents (very good indeed) and feel
>that it\'s got most stuff we (Paneris and the partner) need, but
>I would appreciate it if someone could have a look at the costings
>(in the implementation plan).
There seems to be a lack of fat in the budget.
There seems to be little room for manouver, error, over-run or
mis-analysis of the task.
This price (182 hours) compares to
Iglu (592 budget, 854.5 recorded spend).
We are efectively porting the template software and
would wish to do as professional a job as possible of
documenting both what was done on iglu and what needs to be done
to make these scripts generic Paneris tools.
I don\'t know whether it is fair to expect RacketClub to
bare all of this cost but certainly they should be paying
something into the newbox budget.
So I feel that the budget is light and can only be done
<em>by the seat of your pants</em>, which should only be
done if the customer will not bare a higher price.
What I would wish to stress to the customer is that this would
be the \'brave\' choice :)
yours
timp
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11828,'Thu Dec 3 12:13:42 1998','Re: Comments?',32,11823,'
>Could you have a look at the proposal I have put
>together for a RacketClub:
Sorry Myles, I\'ve been off-line since Friday! :(
I\'ve also been sorting out the POP3 mappings at TSL for my email - Paneris has been spamming Shannon here for 5 days (oops!) - but hopefully this is all sorted now!
I\'ll take a look at the proposal doc.s later today and let you know if I have any comments.
Cheers!
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11829,'Mon Dec 7 11:29:53 1998','Searching for Partners/Coaches',32,0,'
In the Functional spec. which you have provided, I note that
you have specified that users will be required to select
from a range of criteria before being presented with any
results.
In my view, as expressed in our previous meeting, I feel it
would be more appropriate to assume all criteria for
searching, and present users with results immediately.
For example, we know what the user\'s age, location and skill
level, so we would take this as the base criteria to start
searching from.
We can then spiral out by location, for example, automatically
until hits are made.
Equally we can expand to shows records of players at a similar
level to the user rather than the user having to make choices
which could results in "no records".
Whilst some discussion might be required to decide exactly
how to go about this, the benefit to the user is a quicker
system which will always show results after the first "click".
ColinR
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11830,'Mon Dec 7 11:30:39 1998','Searching for Partners/Coaches',32,0,'
In the Functional spec. which you have provided, I note that
you have specified that users will be required to select
from a range of criteria before being presented with any
results.
In my view, as expressed in our previous meeting, I feel it
would be more appropriate to assume all criteria for
searching, and present users with results immediately.
For example, we know what the user\'s age, location and skill
level, so we would take this as the base criteria to start
searching from.
We can then spiral out by location, for example, automatically
until hits are made.
Equally we can expand to shows records of players at a similar
level to the user rather than the user having to make choices
which could results in "no records".
Whilst some discussion might be required to decide exactly
how to go about this, the benefit to the user is a quicker
system which will always show results after the first "click".
ColinR
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11831,'Mon Dec 7 14:57:59 1998','Re: Searching for Partners/Coaches',2,11830,'
Colin,
OK. I wanted to _not_ have the search automatically refine
itself in the first stage for the following reaons:
1) A search page with no input boxes won\'t feel like a
search page (although we should be able to get round
this by well documenting our "revolutionary" search
system).
2) It might be difficult to specify how to refine the search
without real data and real users (well, maybe us pretending
to be users) to tell us what they would like.
I understand, though, that you want to reduce the chance of "no
hits found". How about this as a new approach:
1) Since the first stage will concentrate on Tennis, I suggest that
for the first stage we will search on all sport types and
simply have icons next to each hit showing what sports
the player/coach is interested in.
2) Let\'s ignore age for the first stage.
3) Let\'s have a "standard" checkbox that the user can select
from ("my level", "within 1 level", "all levels")
4) Let\'s refine results depending on proximity.
Alteratively, we can switch 3&4 (have a proximity drop down
and refine on skill).
What do you think? I would like to avoid refining 2 variables
at once until we have seen how well the system works.
Also, remember that all of the proximity stuff relies on a
PostCode database or GIS. How is your research on the matter
coming along?
Regards,
Myles
>In the Functional spec. which you have provided, I note that
>you have specified that users will be required to select
>from a range of criteria before being presented with any
>results.
>In my view, as expressed in our previous meeting, I feel it
>would be more appropriate to assume all criteria for
>searching, and present users with results immediately.
>For example, we know what the user\'s age, location and skill
>level, so we would take this as the base criteria to start
>searching from.
>We can then spiral out by location, for example, automatically
>until hits are made.
>Equally we can expand to shows records of players at a similar
>level to the user rather than the user having to make choices
>which could results in "no records".
>Whilst some discussion might be required to decide exactly
>how to go about this, the benefit to the user is a quicker
>system which will always show results after the first "click".
>ColinR
','f','',130,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
131,'winsql','winsql Interface',8131,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/winsql/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/winsql/',4);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11832,'Mon Mar 8 12:22:56 1999','invoice',1,0,'
james,
I have put up the zoneblue invoice, to find it, go to
www.paneris.co.uk/partners/winsql/
and click the invoice link.
cheers
timj
','f','',131,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
132,'alexh','alexh List',8132,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/alexh/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/alexh/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11833,'Wed Sep 15 17:08:24 1999','First Contact',3,0,'
Hi Alex,
I have been thinking about the wonderful interface to
your <a href=\'http://www.onetti.u-net.com/onettiroot/\'>website</a>.
So revisited to get the details of the <a mailto:martins@hks.com>author</a>
of the Windows-like java scipt.
I found I could not contact you through your site.
So thought I would mail you from your node on my system.
It occurs to me that this is the way it is going to be,
I have a view of the people I have dealings with,
and they have a different one of me.
In work I am increasingly finding it is a case of
<em>your website or mine?</em> .
Anyway, I am going to contact <a mailto:martins@hks.com>MartinS</a>,
give him the <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/dos.html\'>URL</a> to
my DOS view, hope he has a sense of humor, and ask if I can cannibalise
his code.
I will copy you on all messages.
yours
TimP
','f','',132,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11834,'Wed Sep 15 17:08:24 1999','Second Contact',3,11833,'
You are now on the distribution options for all
new messages on the Paneris Message boards.
But it is up to the sender whether you are included.
If you get other messages, say page modification messages,
please let me know.
Love Tim
','f','',132,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11835,'Wed Sep 15 17:08:24 1999','Re: Second Contact',3,11834,'
Thanks Tim. Interestingly enough my new job will be in messaging (writing plugins for Exchange Server). So your site is doubtless a good place to pick up tips!
Best,
A.
','f','',132,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11836,'Tue Sep 15 12:42:08 1998','Views of onetti/paneris',3,0,'
At 10:20 15/09/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Tim,
>
>Check out www.onetti.u-net.com/wwwroot/
Looking good.
>
>Let me know if you like my rather hacky attempt to give you dyanmic text
>reformatting without server-side capabilities ...
It seems very cool.
>
>Let me know also if you still need any help with that "site menu". I have
>found lots of docs and zips on my H/D I can send if you need them.
>
Well, what I would really like, is for you to install UHTML and or site menu
on a new view of paneris....
The notion of a view is that it is one of many pages that are created
from templates by the generate.pl script.
Generate is run frequently, and its main subroutine updatedir.pl
is also called by creat_node.pl.
What it does is recurse down the directory tree from it invocation node and
figure out what files and directories are there.
These are stored in variables which can be inserted into
a number of .template files, notably:
default.template
contents.template
navigate.template
dos_template.template
customer.template
actions.template
and the resultant .shtml files created.
Consequently there is a static copy of each of the above at each node.
As diskspace is no longer a problem but processor speed i I think this is
an elegant solution, though it needs tidying.
It would be relatively easy for you to add a new view,
but noone else has dared....
yours
TimP
PS I think that modifying the Paneris site is an innitiation ritual/prerquisite
for working on the team, just so that people get to understand/critique your coding style;
but that is just my view.
','f','',132,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11837,'Tue Sep 15 16:39:56 1998','Re: Views of onetti/paneris',3,11836,'
>>
>Well, what I would really like, is for you to install UHTML and or site menu
> on a new view of paneris....
LOL. You would? You\'re brave!
Sure. I\'m game for that. The point with UHTML though is that you could do much more with it than just this (eg. it would be easy to add a "Foreground" and "Background" colour image of "INPUT" button of type "IMAGE". This would then let you set the colours all on the client-side ... Other things that spring to mind are word counts or "theme" searches (a la "AutoGorpie"). Basically, UHTML is simply an HTML3.2 version of the HTML4.0 "innerHTML". Since the browser has full power to manipulate the document it has currently loaded, you can do pretty well what you want.
>PS I think that modifying the Paneris site is an innitiation ritual/prerquisite
>for working on the team, just so that people get to understand/critique your coding style;
>but that is just my view.
I agree.
Something to sort out though is the speed with which UHTML renders. It doesn\'t take long to parse, but actually generating the document can take took long. I can\'t think of a cross-browser solution to this except a Java 1.0 "view" on the document. Any thoughts? Guess the browser renders asynchronously as it downloads, so you lose that when you preload a UHTML document, then reformat it.
The threading in IE is abysmal, BTW. Netscape is much better.
','f','',132,0,0);
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11838,'Tue Sep 15 16:44:03 1998','Java Plugin Compression',31,0,'
Just a thought, since I have a lot of ideas kicking around here and bits of code and such:
It\'s difficult keeping my various sites beneath 5Mb so I thought it might be an idea to compress everything using GZIP. The standard Java 1.1 standard includes a java.util.zip package which can decompress on the fly. It would be trivial to patch up an invisible control that unzipped these files and dumped them into a frameset.
Only problem, no support for this in Java1.0. I\'ve been taking the lead from you nice X-browser people, but let me know if you feel like pursuing it.
','f','',132,0,0);
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11839,'Tue Sep 15 16:49:18 1998','XML Documents at Paneris?',31,0,'
Something that may be of more interest: I\'ve recently written an XML to DOM convertor for arbitrary XML documents. Obviously, there can\'t be support for ATTRIBUTE tags, and there\'s no attempt at parsing -- the tree is simply flattened into a DOM-navigatable document.
Don\'t know if Paneris has any views on XML as a back-end system? The MSXML renderer built into IE4 is a bit ropey, but with my converter you can generate a cross-browser view if you want.
May write an XML text adventure game, to show you the kind of things you can do with XML. It\'s quite fun.
','f','',132,0,0);
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11840,'Tue Sep 15 16:54:23 1998','Inheritance model in Javascript',31,0,'
Ever get the feeling it might be possible to build a car with a sledgehammer and a box of nails?
Well, similarly futile code -- my "Inheritance model" for Javascript is available to any takers. The work in progress supports full abstract and virtual methods and properties, multiple inheritance, private and public access specifiers. It is an act of lucid pointlessness which makes me doubt my own sanity.
There is also a completed "inheritance model" based on Java\'s "clone()" system which has no access modifiers.
Just to let you know that there are some strange people out here.
','f','',132,0,0);
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11841,'Tue Sep 15 22:10:55 1998','Re: XML Documents at Paneris?',3,11839,'
>Something that may be of more interest: I\'ve recently written an XML to DOM convertor for arbitrary XML documents. Obviously, there can\'t be support for ATTRIBUTE tags, and there\'s no attempt at parsing -- the tree is simply flattened into a DOM-navigatable document.
I don\'t know XML or DOM, am interested in XML, probably DOM.
>Don\'t know if Paneris has any views on XML as a back-end system? The MSXML renderer built into IE4 is a bit ropey, but with my converter you can generate a cross-browser view if you want.
I have just written a converter from Quark to Folio and want to add XML output.
>May write an XML text adventure game, to show you the kind of things you can do with XML. It\'s quite fun.
That would be cool.
PS is this you 195.102.240.252?
PPS do you want to be added to the paneris email alias,
should I dump the aliases and just stick with people?
I don\'t think many people use <em>programmers</em>, and
now you can select the particular people to circulate to .
yours
Tim
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11842,'Tue Sep 15 22:14:31 1998','Re: Java Plugin Compression',3,11838,'
>
>Just a thought, since I have a lot of ideas kicking around here and bits of code and such:
>It\'s difficult keeping my various sites beneath 5Mb so I thought it might be an idea to compress everything using GZIP. The standard Java 1.1 standard includes a java.util.zip package which can decompress on the fly. It would be trivial to patch up an invisible control that unzipped these files and dumped them into a frameset.
>Only problem, no support for this in Java1.0. I\'ve been taking the lead from you nice X-browser people, but let me know if you feel like pursuing it.
Sounds like a good idea.
Why is disk space a problem? I have a spare, unused 20mb at
Bandwidth of course is a problem, so it might be rather good.
yours
TimP
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11843,'Tue Sep 15 22:25:27 1998','Re: Re: Views of onetti/paneris',3,11837,'
>Sure. I\'m game for that. The point with UHTML though is
>that you could do much more with it than just this
>(eg. it would be easy to add a "Foreground" and "Background" colour image of "INPUT" button of type "IMAGE". This would then let you set the colours all on the client-side ... Other things that spring to mind are word counts or "theme" searches (a la "AutoGorpie").
>Basically, UHTML is simply an HTML3.2 version of the HTML4.0 "innerHTML". Since
>the browser has full power to manipulate the document it has currently loaded,
>you can do pretty well what you want.
Can you give me some UHTML urls to read?
What would be good, to start with, would be implementing a
new view, using plain old html, possibly with CSS and Javascript,
then beefing that up or adding UHTML second.
I don\'t know how much help you would need to get going.
Anyway here are some hints and tips to help you find stuff:
Any existing perl script worth using/reading is listed in
actions.shtml, at every node.
A file which is central to the working of the whole site is
<a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/comment.pl?/paneris/cgi-bin/ini/site.ini\'>site_ini.pl</a>.
Currently this is not modifiable on line, but it will be, and its predecessor was.
To create a new view one has to add the filename to $FILENAMES in site_ini.pl and
create a template file (extension .template) which should reside at the top level in the tree, but
can also reside lower down, where it will take precedence.
The template can be modified on line.
yours
TimP
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11844,'Tue Sep 15 23:00:05 1998','Re: Re: XML Documents at Paneris?',31,11841,'
I don\'t know XML or DOM, am interested in XML, probably DOM.
DOM = Document Object Model (ie. navigable via Javascript ... ;). It means your XML documents are accessed via a syntax like:
document.clients<a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?10\'>10</a>;.address<a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?2\'>2</a>;.value = "27 The Avenue"
>PS is this you 195.102.240.252?
Could have been. Not it now. I get dynamic ones. *sigh*
A.
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11845,'Tue Sep 15 23:03:43 1998','Re: Re: Java Plugin Compression',31,11842,'
TimP wrote:
>Sounds like a good idea.
>Why is disk space a problem? I have a spare, unused 20mb at
>Bandwidth of course is a problem, so it might be rather good.
I don\'t imagine you would get much more throughput by compressing the files, since I\'m sure any self-respecting modem uses Huffmnann coding of some kind, in addition to anything in the browser. Sorry.
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11846,'Wed Sep 16 13:12:12 1998','Re: Re: Re: Views of onetti/paneris',31,11843,'
Okay. That answers most of my questions. As it stands, the folder-tree script lends itself to template-ization. The implementation I propose would offer a "relative" site view of nodes beneath the current node at which it was invoked.
As yet, it only works at top level (due to various hardcoded _top features). I don\'t know offhand how easy it will be to change all this -- Marcelino seems to think it has to stay that way -- but I don\'t really see why.
First step is for me to buy, beg or borrow "Programming Perl"; I\'ll also need a listing of cgi-bin/
Hope to get something sorted out within the next week or so.
AlexH
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11847,'Fri Mar 5 8:56:28 1999','test',1,0,'
test
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11848,'Fri Mar 5 9:05:14 1999','screensaver',1,0,'
Alex,
Further to our conversation:
Bloomsbury are now after 2 screensavers, but one is on hold for contractural reasons. I will keep you informed.
The other is to promote the Encarta World English Dictionary (check out http://www.bloomsbury.com/sneak/january/microsoft.html). The idea for this is to produce a simple screensaver with scrolling quotes from the dictionary. there would need to be enough of these to prevent too much reptition (perhaps 5000). these will be provided in electronic format.
I am sure you have seen the \'Shakespear\'s Quotes\' screensaver that inspired!? Bloomsbury to do this.
Are you interested in this job (please say yes). If so, can you do a rough quote (in hours or days) to produce the screensaver.
Please call if you need more info.
Cheers
Timj
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11849,'Fri Mar 5 20:29:26 1999','Re: screensaver',31,11848,'
Ok. For a first "appraisal" -- comments please:
Encarta World English Dictionary Screensaver
Overview
The screensaver will scroll a selection of quotations horizontally across the user\'s screen. A number of variations are possible here (to be agreed upon):
Quotations will always scroll in from the right hand side of the screen across the centre of the screen. Only one quotation will be visible at a time.
Multiple quotations will scroll on concurrently
Qutotations will scroll at different vertical levels
Quotations will scroll on randomly from left and right
System Requirements
The screensaver will run under Windows 95 and Windows NT 4.0 with a minimum of 8Mb of RAM. All graphics modes will be supported, although obviously the screensaver will only be able to run in modes and resolutions supported by the user\'s monitor. Negligible system resources will be used.
General Behaviour
The screensaver will manifest default screensaver behaviour, namely:
It will be a file with the suffix ".scr"
Right clicking this file will bring up a context menu with the option "Install"
After installation, the screensaver will appear in the list of screensavers in Control Panel\'s "Display" dialog ("Screensaver" tab)
When selected as the "active" screensaver from Control Panel, the screensaver will cut in at a user-configurable period
If the user has enabled password-protection, the screensaver will refuse to be dismissed without valid entry of the user\'s name and password, otherwise moving the mouse or pressing a key will dismiss the screensaver and restore the user\'s desktop
File format
Quotes are stored in a plain ASCII text file, with a double carriage return separating each quote. There is no upper limit on the number of quotes which can be stored. The first line of the file is the word "QUOTES" on a single line to identify it to the screensaver as a Quotations file.
Control Panel Integration
Configuration Dialog
The screensaver can be configured in the usual fashion by selecting "Display" from Control Panel, and then selecting the "Screensaver" tab and clicking "Settings". This will bring up a dialog in which the following features may be reconfigured (subject to the "Options" Bloomsbury choose to adopt; see below):
Colour of the quotation text (random colours, or a single colour)
Style of the quotation text (italic, bold, etc.) Combinations of styles are permissible
Minimum/Maximum font sizes. These fields should have the same value if text is always to be of a uniform size
Font (eg. Times Roman)
Minimum/Maximum speed. These fields should have the same value if quotes are always to scroll at the same speed
the name of the Quotes text file. The dialog will confirm the existence of the file at the specified location, and warn the user if the file cannot be found, or if the file is not in the correct format.
For all of these, validation of upper/lower bounds will be implemented.
Preview
The screensaver can be previewed in the usual fashion by selecting "Display" from Control Panel, and then selecting the "Screensaver" tab and clicking "Preview". This will cause the screensaver to start running full screen. Moving the mouse or pressing a key will cause the preview to terminate, returning the user to the Display settings.
Password Protection
If the user has enabled desktop protection from Control Panel, then moving the mouse or pressing a key while the screensaver is running will cause it to bring up a standard Password dialog requesting the user\'s login name and password. As it does so, motion in the screensaver will cease, but the quotes will remain displayed. If the user fails to enter a correct password and login, the Password dialog will be removed, leaving the screensaver in its "static" state. Upon successful entry of username and password the screensaver will be dismissed and the user\'s desktop restored.
Options
Basic Options
The screensaver is a standalone .SCR file, with a non-configurable set of quotations "hardwired" into it. The screensaver can be previewed from Control Panel, but offers no configuration options to "customise" it.
Simple Options
The screensaver is a .SCR file with an associated Quotations file in plain ASCII format. The name and location of the quotations file can be configured from the "Display" tab of Control Panel, as well as the speed, colour, font and font-size of the quotations text.
Advanced Options
The screensaver is a .SCR file with an associated Quotations file in an HTML-based markup. Font size, style, emphasis and italic can all be specified in isolation, allowing quotations-within-quotations, and quotations with varying styles. For example, all Shakespeare quotes could be in Times Roman, bold, at 18 point, all e.e. cummings quotes in Comic Sans MS, 10 point (although certain restrictions might have to be imposed governing which paramaters could be "changed" within a quotation). Furthermore, the screensaver offers the option of playing either over a plain backdrop of configurable colour, over a selectable background image, or "transparently" over the user\'s existing desktop.
Other Options
An "Installshield"-style installation program could be supplied for the screensaver if required.
Estimate of Working Hours
I would estimate a basic 10 hours to produce the "simplest" form of screensaver meeting the requirements above, plus up to an additional 5 hours for the choice of extra options (excluding Installshield, which will be estimated separately, if required, since this would anticipate a high degree of customisation with images, logos, etc.) Please feel free to suggest additional or alternative features, and I will reestimate accordingly.
___________________________________________________________
Alexander Hildyard
7 The Avenue
Lewes
East Sussex
BN7 1QS
hildyard@onetti.u-net.com
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11850,'Mon Mar 8 8:16:12 1999','Re: screensaver',31,11848,'Posted on behalf of AlexH by TimJ
Thanks for the info, and sorry not to have got back sooner. Yes, I should
definitely be interested in both screensavers. For the "live" one -- I have
not seen the screensaver you mention, but assume it is a fairly simple set
of quotes scrolling in/off screen in different colours and font sizes, from
left and right ... If so ...
I\'m enclosing a document I\'ve put together as a pitch or basis for a pitch.
You may have to guide me a bit here, but my gut reaction would be round
about 10 hours. Let me know what you think Bloomsbury have in mind, and also
if they could be persuaded to go for something a bit more complex (and
expensive!) I could also do 3.1 support, but they would certainly have to
pay for that, since I am pretty rusty with VC1.52 ...
Let me know, anyhow.
Best wishes,
Alex H
p.s: If desperate you can call me on 01273 47 5707, although email is best.
You will get a really bad answer machine (my mother\'s); I\'m staying here
while trying to buy a flat locally, but certainly have time for this work,
so ... let me know.
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11851,'Mon Mar 8 8:21:32 1999','Re: Re: screensaver',1,11850,'
>
>Thanks for the info, and sorry not to have got back sooner.
!!Yes 11 hours from requesting a quote to recieving one is desperately slow, but all the same, appology accepted. :-)
> Yes, I should
>definitely be interested in both screensavers. For the "live" one -- I have
>not seen the screensaver you mention, but assume it is a fairly simple set
>of quotes scrolling in/off screen in different colours and font sizes, from
>left and right ... If so ...
yes
>I\'m enclosing a document I\'ve put together as a pitch or basis for a pitch.
>You may have to guide me a bit here, but my gut reaction would be round
>about 10 hours. Let me know what you think Bloomsbury have in mind, and also
>if they could be persuaded to go for something a bit more complex (and
>expensive!)
I think we can sensible go a bit above this. I am assuming that you are happy with the Paneris standard rate of £32 per hour. Let me know if you are not.
>I could also do 3.1 support, but they would certainly have to
>pay for that, since I am pretty rusty with VC1.52 ...
I don\'t think 3.1 support is required.
timJ
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11852,'Mon Mar 8 8:36:07 1999','Re: Re: screensaver',1,11849,'
>Ok. For a first "appraisal" -- comments please:
>
>Encarta World English Dictionary Screensaver
>Overview
>The screensaver will scroll a selection of quotations horizontally across the user\'s screen. A number of variations are possible here (to be agreed upon):
>Quotations will always scroll in from the right hand side of the screen across the centre of the screen. Only one quotation will be visible at a time.
>Multiple quotations will scroll on concurrently
>Qutotations will scroll at different vertical levels
>Quotations will scroll on randomly from left and right
all good
>
>System Requirements
>The screensaver will run under Windows 95 and Windows NT 4.0 with a minimum of 8Mb of RAM. All graphics modes will be supported, although obviously the screensaver will only be able to run in modes and resolutions supported by the user\'s monitor. Negligible system resources will be used.
fine
>
>General Behaviour
>The screensaver will manifest default screensaver behaviour, namely:
>It will be a file with the suffix ".scr"
>Right clicking this file will bring up a context menu with the option "Install"
>After installation, the screensaver will appear in the list of screensavers in Control Panel\'s "Display" dialog ("Screensaver" tab)
>When selected as the "active" screensaver from Control Panel, the screensaver will cut in at a user-configurable period
>If the user has enabled password-protection, the screensaver will refuse to be dismissed without valid entry of the user\'s name and password, otherwise moving the mouse or pressing a key will dismiss the screensaver and restore the user\'s desktop
fine
>
>File format
>Quotes are stored in a plain ASCII text file, with a double carriage return separating each quote. There is no upper limit on the number of quotes which can be stored. The first line of the file is the word "QUOTES" on a single line to identify it to the screensaver as a Quotations file.
fine
>
>Control Panel Integration
>Configuration Dialog
>The screensaver can be configured in the usual fashion by selecting "Display" from Control Panel, and then selecting the "Screensaver" tab and clicking "Settings". This will bring up a dialog in which the following features may be reconfigured (subject to the "Options" Bloomsbury choose to adopt; see below):
>Colour of the quotation text (random colours, or a single colour)
>Style of the quotation text (italic, bold, etc.) Combinations of styles are permissible
>Minimum/Maximum font sizes. These fields should have the same value if text is always to be of a uniform size
>Font (eg. Times Roman)
>Minimum/Maximum speed. These fields should have the same value if quotes are always to scroll at the same speed
>the name of the Quotes text file. The dialog will confirm the existence of the file at the specified location, and warn the user if the file cannot be found, or if the file is not in the correct format.
>For all of these, validation of upper/lower bounds will be implemented.
all of the above is good
>Preview
>The screensaver can be previewed in the usual fashion by selecting "Display" from Control Panel, and then selecting the "Screensaver" tab and clicking "Preview". This will cause the screensaver to start running full screen. Moving the mouse or pressing a key will cause the preview to terminate, returning the user to the Display settings.
fine
>Password Protection
>If the user has enabled desktop protection from Control Panel, then moving the mouse or pressing a key while the screensaver is running will cause it to bring up a standard Password dialog requesting the user\'s login name and password. As it does so, motion in the screensaver will cease, but the quotes will remain displayed. If the user fails to enter a correct password and login, the Password dialog will be removed, leaving the screensaver in its "static" state. Upon successful entry of username and password the screensaver will be dismissed and the user\'s desktop restored.
fine
>
>Options
>Basic Options
>The screensaver is a standalone .SCR file, with a non-configurable set of quotations "hardwired" into it. The screensaver can be previewed from Control Panel, but offers no configuration options to "customise" it.
prefer simple option below.
>Simple Options
>The screensaver is a .SCR file with an associated Quotations file in plain ASCII format. The name and location of the quotations file can be configured from the "Display" tab of Control Panel, as well as the speed, colour, font and font-size of the quotations text.
this seems the best approach.
>Advanced Options
>The screensaver is a .SCR file with an associated Quotations file in an HTML-based markup. Font size, style, emphasis and italic can all be specified in isolation, allowing quotations-within-quotations, and quotations with varying styles. For example, all Shakespeare quotes could be in Times Roman, bold, at 18 point, all e.e. cummings quotes in Comic Sans MS, 10 point (although certain restrictions might have to be imposed governing which paramaters could be "changed" within a quotation).
not sure the above is required, but will consult on this. One thing to remember is that we are taking the quotes from a dictionary where a number of fonts are typically used on a line to differentiate detween the meaning of the various bits of the definition.
>Furthermore, the screensaver offers the option of playing either over a plain backdrop of configurable colour, over a selectable background image, or "transparently" over the user\'s existing desktop.
we have a logo, which would be good to put as a backdrop. This option would be good to include.
>Other Options
>An "Installshield"-style installation program could be supplied for the screensaver if required.
not required.
>
>Estimate of Working Hours
>I would estimate a basic 10 hours to produce the "simplest" form of screensaver meeting the requirements above, plus up to an additional 5 hours for the choice of extra options (excluding Installshield, which will be estimated separately, if required, since this would anticipate a high degree of customisation with images, logos, etc.) Please feel free to suggest additional or alternative features, and I will reestimate accordingly.
This sounds extreemly reasonable. The most important thing is that we deliver a high quality product that is bug-free. I imagine that this proposal took a couple of hours (you should factor this in). I think that we can sensibly charge for 20 hours on this. I hope this will cover everyting.
I will amend your proposal, so that the customer only has the option of including the option of a html markup style or not, and discuss this with them. I will estimate 20 hours for the project (weather they chose this option or not).
Please let me know asap if this does not sound sensible.
Thanks again for an excellent, comprehensive and speedy proposal, it makes my life so much easier.
timJ
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11853,'Mon Mar 8 8:58:28 1999','Re: Re: screensaver',1,11849,'
Alex,
I have posted the proposal on
www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/bloomsbury/
Please take a look (I have made a couple of minor changes), if you are happy, I will let the customer know, and they can agree it. You will need a password to get into the i-way area, I have sent this under seperate email.
timj
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11854,'Mon Mar 8 12:34:52 1999','Re: Re: Re: screensaver',31,11852,'
Thanks Tim!
I will start looking into it now, just to identify any possible problems with drawing text onto DIBs. The one issue that springs to mind, if we are giving Dictionary definitions, is Greek fonts (for etymology) and phonetic alphabet (for pronunciation). If you could clear with Bloomsbury whether these are required, it would be helpful. I think it\'s realistic to say though that these might well be difficult; I will look into it ...
Best,
Alex
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11855,'Mon Mar 8 15:19:13 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: screensaver',1,11854,'
Alex,
>I will start looking into it now, just to identify any possible problems with drawing text onto DIBs. The one issue that springs to mind, if we are giving Dictionary definitions, is Greek fonts (for etymology) and phonetic alphabet (for pronunciation). If you could clear with Bloomsbury whether these are required, it would be helpful. I think it\'s realistic to say though that these might well be difficult; I will look into it ...
I wouldn\'t bother - I don\'t think that they will need these special fonts, but I have asked anyway. Is the doc I put up ok to show to the customer?
timJ
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11856,'Mon Mar 8 17:33:16 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: screensaver',31,11855,'
>Is the doc I put up ok to show to the customer?
It\'s great, Tim. Just to clarify though, the first set of bullet points refer to possible scenarios rather than characteristics of a single scenario ...
I assume no Unicode support needed then, after your last -- this would not work natively on Win95, anyway.
WAV sound effects are also a possibility if they want.
Best,
Alex
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11857,'Tue Mar 9 22:11:48 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: screensaver',1,11856,'
>It\'s great, Tim. Just to clarify though, the first set of bullet points refer to possible scenarios rather than characteristics of a single scenario ...
um, why can\'t we have all of the following:
1) Multiple quotations will scroll on concurrently
2) Qutotations will scroll at different vertical levels
3) Quotations will scroll on randomly from left and right
>I assume no Unicode support needed then, after your last -- this would not work natively on Win95, anyway.
no
>WAV sound effects are also a possibility if they want.
probably not; maing noise is not a very \'dictionary\' thing to do.
cheers
timj
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11858,'Wed Mar 10 1:02:41 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: screensaver',31,11857,'
You can have all of those options if you want ..
I have been working on the problem, anyway, since I have a bit of free time at the moment.
I can probably produce a mock-up at two days notice if required, so let me know. At present, I have quotations working with correct transparency in 8/16/24bit mode ...
Best,
AlexH
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11859,'Wed Mar 10 8:40:44 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: screensaver',1,11858,'
>You can have all of those options if you want ..
cool, I have let the customer have the proposal
>I have been working on the problem, anyway, since I have a bit of free time at the moment.
cool, i am sure they will go for it, but you may get stung if they don\'t
>I can probably produce a mock-up at two days notice if required, so let me know. At present, I have quotations working with correct transparency in 8/16/24bit mode ...
cool.
timj
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INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
133,'andrijk','andrijk List',8133,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/andrijk/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/andrijk/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11860,'Mon Jun 7 10:50:46 1999','More information about teleworking',5,0,'Posted on behalf of AndrijK by TimP
Hello.
I am Andrij Korud from Ukraine,
I\'ve found your site in teleworking job opportunities and am interested in
receiving some more information.
Thanks in advance.
Andrij Korud, Lviv, Ukraine.
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11861,'Mon Jun 7 10:51:35 1999','Re: More information about teleworking',3,11860,'
Hi Andrij,
We are a collective of programmers and designers.
We are currently using java, postgres and webmacro to write servlets.
We welcome new members, but do not guarantee any work.
Keep an eye on us, as we are getting better :)
yours
TimP
>Hello.
>I am Andrij Korud from Ukraine,
>I\'ve found your site in teleworking job opportunities and am interested in
>receiving some more information.
>Thanks in advance.
>Andrij Korud, Lviv, Ukraine.
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11862,'Mon Jun 7 10:52:20 1999','Re: Re: More information about teleworking',5,11861,'Posted on behalf of AndrijK by TimP
>
> We are a collective of programmers and designers.
>
> We are currently using java, postgres and webmacro to write servlets.
>
> We welcome new members, but do not guarantee any work.
>
> Keep an eye on us, as we are getting better :)
>
> yours
> TimP
>
Hi. Thank you for your answer. I hope you\'ll contact me when you\'ll be
interested. I am very interested.
Best regards.
Andrij Korud
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11863,'Mon Jun 7 10:55:37 1999','Re: Re: Re: More information about teleworking',3,11862,'
At 20:31 01/06/99 +0300, you wrote:
>>
>> We are a collective of programmers and designers.
>>
>> We are currently using java, postgres and webmacro to write servlets.
>>
>> We welcome new members, but do not guarantee any work.
>>
>> Keep an eye on us, as we are getting better :)
>>
>> yours
>> TimP
>>
>Hi. Thank you for your answer. I hope you\'ll contact me when you\'ll be
>interested. I am very interested.
>
What are your skills?
Yours
TimP
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11864,'Mon Jun 7 10:56:19 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: More information about teleworking',3,11863,'
> What are your skills?
>
> Yours
> TimP
>
Hi. My skills are:
Database design, implementation and administration (InterBase, Postgres,
MySQL),
Client software: Windows: Borland Delphi using BDE, MS VC using ODBC,
Unix (FreeBSD/Linux): C using native API, Perl.
Java: JDBC, also servlet programming.
Web programmig: CGI on perl and C; Servlets on Java, PHP3.
Also good knowledges in setting and administrating Unix (FreeBSD/Linux)
Internet/Intranet servers including Apache server.
Best regards.
Andrij Korud.
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11865,'Mon Jun 7 10:57:11 1999','Re: More information about teleworking',3,11864,'
Hi Andrij,
You certainly have the skill set that we need.
If you were to join us you would be joining at the right time,
as we are beginning to have more work than we can handle.
As you live in the Ukraine there will be a few administrative problems
that we will need to solve:
How do we pay you?
What hourly rate do you expect?
What currency should we pay you in?
Are we ever likely to meet you face to face?
We use webmacro (http://www.webmacro.org/) please have a look at it.
We have built a generic database administration/access system which
sits between webmacro and postgres, which can inteface to other JDBC
compliant databases.
Please tell us as much about yourself as possible.
Where is your home page?
How good is your English?
Who are you working for at the moment?
How old are you?
We could hold an online interview (icq/unix talk)
How much of the site (http://www.paneris.co.uk/) have you read?
You can imagine that I am a little nevous about giving the passwords
and CVS write access to someone I have not met so please provide as much
information about yourself as possible.
We are committed to the Open Source movement (http://www.opensource.org/),
you can see our repository at http://www.paneris.org/repository/
Paneris is a gift culture, so if we give you work hopefully you will
contribute words/images/code for the site.
Currently we have two sites, one a virtual server (http://www.paneris.co.uk/)
the other is our own box (http://www.paneris.org/). The latter is
going to replace the former (eventually).
We also have some space on another server for our administration system,
though this
too is expected to move to http://www.paneris.org/ .
In adition we use another box fro customers live sites.
When we have finished this preliminary stage becoming a member of paneris
essentailly means having a page under people and being placed on the
mailing list.
We are too busy to deal with newbies, but with your skill set and courage
you should
fit in well.
yours
Tim Pizey
Please reply to all.
At 09:59 02/06/99 +0300, you wrote:
>> What are your skills?
>>
>> Yours
>> TimP
>>
>Hi. My skills are:
>Database design, implementation and administration (InterBase, Postgres,
>MySQL),
>Client software: Windows: Borland Delphi using BDE, MS VC using ODBC,
> Unix (FreeBSD/Linux): C using native API, Perl.
> Java: JDBC, also servlet programming.
>Web programmig: CGI on perl and C; Servlets on Java, PHP3.
>Also good knowledges in setting and administrating Unix (FreeBSD/Linux)
>Internet/Intranet servers including Apache server.
>
>Best regards.
>
>Andrij Korud.
>
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11866,'Mon Jun 7 10:58:45 1999','Re: More information about teleworking',3,11865,'
Hi. Thank you for your answer.
>
>
> Hi Andrij,
>
> You certainly have the skill set that we need.
>
> If you were to join us you would be joining at the right time,
> as we are beginning to have more work than we can handle.
>
> As you live in the Ukraine there will be a few administrative problems
> that we will need to solve:
>
> How do we pay you?
> What hourly rate do you expect?
> What currency should we pay you in?
> Are we ever likely to meet you face to face?
Yes, I realize this problems.
About paying - now I am working on this problem. Sure we can use Western
Union - but their services cost too much. Now I am looking for some cheaper
way of doing it. As soon as I will found somethig I will inform you. About
currency - any you want (US dollars, British pounds, Deuchemarks).
Hourly rate - it depends on work I supposed to do, but $5-10/hour will be
OK, but this is subject of discussion, if you propose more I will be happy.
Also I prefer fixed rate for part of work done, but hour rate is also
acceptable.
About meeting face to face - I don\'t see any problems in this way as soon as
I earn more money :). Sometimes I go abroad, the farthest point where I was
is Paris. This summer I am going to visit Spain and may be I will be in
Paris. But I have not yet been in England.
> We use webmacro (http://www.webmacro.org/) please have a look at it.
> We have built a generic database administration/access system which
> sits between webmacro and postgres, which can inteface to other JDBC
> compliant databases.
I have seen webmacro\'s web page and found this very interesting. I\'ve
already downloaded it and would like to have a closer look at it. As soon as
I reinstall my Linux box (because of HDD crash :(
> Please tell us as much about yourself as possible.
> Where is your home page?
> How good is your English?
> Who are you working for at the moment?
> How old are you?
> We could hold an online interview (icq/unix talk)
> How much of the site (http://www.paneris.co.uk/) have you read?
>
> You can imagine that I am a little nevous about giving the passwords
> and CVS write access to someone I have not met so please provide as much
> information about yourself as possible.
>
I understand you. Here is detailed information about me:
Andrij Korud, birthdate 22.08.1976 (so now I am 22), single, homepage
http://www.polynet.lviv.ua/~akorud (not updated more then year),
ICQ: 10572982 (online when I am on my PC). My connection to Internet is
permanet (not dial-up) and quite good. UNIX talk will be a liitle more
difficult because my internal network is protected by firewall.
My English is fluent (may be a little American), also perfectly know
Russian and Polish.
I am graduated student (master of science) and now I am doing some
post-graduate research. Computers I know from the beginning (ZX Spectrum,
IBM PC XT and so on).
Just know I\'ve read almost all your site and found it very interesting.
>We are too busy to deal with newbies, but with your skill set and courage
>you should
>it in well.
I am sure of it.
Best regards.
Andrij Korud
At 09:59 02/06/99 +0300, you wrote:
>> What are your skills?
>>
>> Yours
>> TimP
>>
>Hi. My skills are:
>Database design, implementation and administration (InterBase, Postgres,
>MySQL),
>Client software: Windows: Borland Delphi using BDE, MS VC using ODBC,
> Unix (FreeBSD/Linux): C using native API, Perl.
> Java: JDBC, also servlet programming.
>Web programmig: CGI on perl and C; Servlets on Java, PHP3.
>Also good knowledges in setting and administrating Unix (FreeBSD/Linux)
>Internet/Intranet servers including Apache server.
>
>Best regards.
>
>Andrij Korud.
>
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11867,'Mon Jun 7 11:09:58 1999','Re: Re: More information about teleworking',5,11865,'Posted on behalf of Andrijk by TimP
Hi.
In my previous letter I have promised you that I\'ll inform you as soon as
will find more information about money transfer.
I have found that Western Union is acceptable: thay take $30 for
transferring any sum that does not exceed $1000. In your local agency you
transfer any currency thay accept and on my side I receive in US dollars
which is OK for me.
Waiting for answer,
Andrij Korud
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11868,'Mon Jun 7 11:44:26 1999','Welcome to Paneris Andrij',3,0,'
Hi Andrij,
Welcome to Paneris.
You have caught us at a busy time, with everything half fixed so please bear with us.
There must be a neater and cheaper way of transferring funds
from the UK to the Ukraine.
Do you have, or can you get, a Visa card?
If so I believe we can credit it.
We can use Western Union if neccessary.
I have created a page for you at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/andijk/ however you will not be able to modify it at the moment.
We currently have a very crude user authorisation mechanism,
which is due to be replaced very soon, but in the mean time
the system depends upon you having a fixed IP address.
Do you have a dynamically allocated IP address or a fixed one? If you have dynamic one the system can still identify you by the first three numbers of your IP address.
Please send me your IP address and I will add you to the list. This will enable you to modify any page on paneris.co.uk and enter data in the time recording system.
With regard to money, TimJ and I feel that it would not be very \'cyber\' to pay you less because you live in Ukraine,
but you are young and your english is not perfect, and we have not seen your work, so we should not make any hasty decisions. I think that you should probably work with a
current member on your first project, and perhaps do your first project for a fixed price.
Currently we are working on the following infrastructure projects for paneris, as we try to migrate paneris.co.uk to paneris.org (we plan to release under Open Source in step with Webmacro).
1. Message Boards
TimJ has written som db based message boards to replace the current perl/html ones (see http://www.panwris.org/finsbury.html)
2. User Authorisation
TimJ has written but not installed a new user authorisation system
3. Project Management system Upgrade
I am scheduled to migrate the PMS to webmacro from perl
4. Replacing paneris.co.uk with same functionality delivered using webmacro
You are welcome to help on any of these projects or to
suggest/implement other improvements to the site.
yours
timp
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11869,'Mon Jun 7 15:14:27 1999','Re: Welcome to Paneris Andrij',5,11868,'
Hi, thank you for your answer.
>Hi Andrij,
>Welcome to Paneris.
>You have caught us at a busy time, with everything half fixed so please bear with us.
>There must be a neater and cheaper way of transferring funds
>from the UK to the Ukraine.
>Do you have, or can you get, a Visa card?
>If so I believe we can credit it.
>We can use Western Union if neccessary.
At a moment I do not have Visa card, now I am working at this problem now, but there are some problems due to economical situation in mu country.
I think that at the beginning we should use Western Union.
>I have created a page for you at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/andijk/ however you will not be able to modify it at the moment.
Thank you.
>We currently have a very crude user authorisation mechanism,
>which is due to be replaced very soon, but in the mean time
>the system depends upon you having a fixed IP address.
I have fixed IP address, but because my organization have two Internet links, I have two fixed IP addresses and can connect to you from both. They are:
194.44.138.1
212.111.193.18
>With regard to money, TimJ and I feel that it would not be very \'cyber\' to pay you less because you live in Ukraine,
>but you are young and your english is not perfect, and we have not seen your work, so we should not make any hasty decisions. I think that you should probably work with a
>current member on your first project, and perhaps do your first project for a fixed price.
This will be OK for me.
>Currently we are working on the following infrastructure projects for paneris, as we try to migrate paneris.co.uk to paneris.org (we plan to release under Open Source in step with Webmacro).
>1. Message Boards
>TimJ has written som db based message boards to replace the current perl/html ones (see http://www.panwris.org/finsbury.html)
>2. User Authorisation
>TimJ has written but not installed a new user authorisation system
>3. Project Management system Upgrade
>I am scheduled to migrate the PMS to webmacro from perl
>4. Replacing paneris.co.uk with same functionality delivered using webmacro
>You are welcome to help on any of these projects or to
>suggest/implement other improvements to the site.
>yours
>timp
I would like to take part in User Authorisation project, also I can take part in building new paneris.org site.
Best regards,
Andrij Korud.
P.S. You can have a look at http://www.ula-gmbh.com
I took some part in developing this site.
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11870,'Mon Jun 7 15:39:59 1999','Re: Re: Welcome to Paneris Andrij',3,11869,'
>>There must be a neater and cheaper way of transferring funds
>>from the UK to the Ukraine.
>>Do you have, or can you get, a Visa card?
>>If so I believe we can credit it.
>>We can use Western Union if neccessary.
>At a moment I do not have Visa card, now I am working at this problem now, but there are some problems due to economical situation in mu country.
>I think that at the beginning we should use Western Union.
Fine, I will look into this when we need to pay you.
>>I have created a page for you at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/andijk/ however you will not be able to modify it at the moment.
>Thank you.
>>We currently have a very crude user authorisation mechanism,
>>which is due to be replaced very soon, but in the mean time
>>the system depends upon you having a fixed IP address.
>I have fixed IP address, but because my organization have two Internet links, I have two fixed IP addresses and can connect to you from both. They are:
>194.44.138.1
>212.111.193.18
You should now be able to modify pages on paneris.co.uk with either of the above, let me know if you cannot.
You will also occur on new message distributions from now on.
>>With regard to money, TimJ and I feel that it would not be very \'cyber\' to pay you less because you live in Ukraine,
>>but you are young and your english is not perfect, and we have not seen your work, so we should not make any hasty decisions. I think that you should probably work with a
>>current member on your first project, and perhaps do your first project for a fixed price.
>This will be OK for me.
>>Currently we are working on the following infrastructure projects for paneris, as we try to migrate paneris.co.uk to paneris.org (we plan to release under Open Source in step with Webmacro).
>>1. Message Boards
>>TimJ has written som db based message boards to replace the current perl/html ones (see http://www.panwris.org/finsbury.html)
>>2. User Authorisation
>>TimJ has written but not installed a new user authorisation system
>>3. Project Management system Upgrade
>>I am scheduled to migrate the PMS to webmacro from perl
>>4. Replacing paneris.co.uk with same functionality delivered using webmacro
>>You are welcome to help on any of these projects or to
>>suggest/implement other improvements to the site.
>>yours
>>timp
>I would like to take part in User Authorisation project, also I can take part in building new paneris.org site.
TimJ has just just implemented this, see
http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/MessagePage?db=finsbury&id=249&messageboard=3
(this is on the new messageboard testbed, you should be able to subscribe)
All of our code can be seen at http://www.paneris.org/repository/
My setup is documented at http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/setup/tools.shtml
I suggest that you try to setup a development environment.
Let me know when you need CVS access.
>Best regards,
>Andrij Korud.
>P.S. You can have a look at http://www.ula-gmbh.com
>I took some part in developing this site.
It is pretty good, but I am using Netscape Version 4.5, with font settings Western Arial, 12pt and
the text is outside the boxes and the logo overwrites the text.
yours
timp
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11871,'Mon Jun 7 18:49:53 1999','Re: Re: Re: Welcome to Paneris Andrij',5,11870,'
>You should now be able to modify pages on paneris.co.uk with either of the above, let me know if you cannot.
>You will also occur on new message distributions from now on.
I will try.
>TimJ has just just implemented this, see
>http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/MessagePage?db=finsbury&id=249&messageboard=3
>(this is on the new messageboard testbed, you should be able to subscribe)
>All of our code can be seen at http://www.paneris.org/repository/
>My setup is documented at http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/setup/tools.shtml
>I suggest that you try to setup a development environment.
>Let me know when you need CVS access.
Now I\'ve started to set up my developing enviroment, let me do it one or two days. As soon as everything will be OK, I\'ll write. Now I am downloading all necessary tools.
Sure, I\'ll have a look at your new authorization system.
P.S. Sorry for my English, I am trying to improve it constantly, but without native speaker it is so difficult.
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11872,'Thu Jun 10 19:18:36 1999','Re: Re: Re: Welcome to Paneris Andrij',5,11870,'
>You should now be able to modify pages on paneris.co.uk with either of the above, let me know if you cannot.
>You will also occur on new message distributions from now on.
Ok, page is online but when I try to click both "Messages" on top or "Modify this document" on bottom I get an error message "Arguments not found in query string ()". Now I do not have any ideas about what does it mean.
>I suggest that you try to setup a development environment.
>Let me know when you need CVS access.
I\'ve already set up development enviroment with Apache, jServ, Webmacro, Java, CVS.
Can you read-only CVS access?
Thanks in advance.
Andrij Korud
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11873,'Fri Jun 11 12:09:03 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Welcome to Paneris Andrij',3,11872,'
>>You should now be able to modify pages on paneris.co.uk with either of the above, let me know if you cannot.
>>You will also occur on new message distributions from now on.
>Ok, page is online but when I try to click both "Messages" on top or "Modify this document" on bottom
>I get an error message "Arguments not found in query string ()".
>Now I do not have any ideas about what does it mean.
How did you post this message then?
What browser are you using?
This error message occurs when there is a misshapen/missing query_string argument to
most perl scripts.
I have modified your page and viewed your messageboard, so cannot reproduce the problem.
>>I suggest that you try to setup a development environment.
>>Let me know when you need CVS access.
>I\'ve already set up development enviroment with Apache, jServ, Webmacro, Java, CVS.
Cool.
>Can you read-only CVS access?
I can\'t figure out how to give you access.
Do you know what I have to do?
Which CVS files do I have to change?
As far as I can see you probably have got read access already.
yours
TimP
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11874,'Fri Jun 11 12:49:09 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welcome to Paneris Andrij',5,11873,'
>>>You should now be able to modify pages on paneris.co.uk with either of the above, let me know if you cannot.
>>>You will also occur on new message distributions from now on.
>>Ok, page is online but when I try to click both "Messages" on top or "Modify this document" on bottom
>>I get an error message "Arguments not found in query string ()".
>>Now I do not have any ideas about what does it mean.
>
>How did you post this message then?
>What browser are you using?
>This error message occurs when there is a misshapen/missing query_string argument to
>most perl scripts.
I can access my messages by going directly to
http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/andrijk/messages
But when clicking "Messages" on my page I still got this error message.
I use InternetExplorer 5.0 for WinNT 4
and Netscape 4.6 for Linux. The same effect.
This may be problem with proxy because I browse Internet via Squid proxy server,
I\'ll try to investigate this problem now.
>I have modified your page and viewed your messageboard, so cannot reproduce the problem.
>
>>>I suggest that you try to setup a development environment.
>>>Let me know when you need CVS access.
>>I\'ve already set up development enviroment with Apache, jServ, Webmacro, Java, CVS.
>Cool.
>>Can you read-only CVS access?
>I can\'t figure out how to give you access.
>Do you know what I have to do?
>Which CVS files do I have to change?
>As far as I can see you probably have got read access already.
I can browse http://www.paneris.org/repository via browser,
but when I try to use CVS to connect to this server, I must apply username/password.
And I don\'t know what to enter.
Best regards, Andrij Korud
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11875,'Fri Jun 11 13:38:46 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welcome to Paneris Andrij',3,11874,'
Andrij,
I am not a very proficient at sysadmin, but I think that I have created
a user account for you.
I will send you the password in a separate email.
This should let you in and (probably) give you complete
control of the machine, (I expect you will need root password next).
Please use with discretion and care.
As I have not met you I am taking a risk trusting you
not to abuse the system.
yours
timP
>>>Can you read-only CVS access?
>>I can\'t figure out how to give you access.
>>Do you know what I have to do?
>>Which CVS files do I have to change?
>>As far as I can see you probably have got read access already.
>I can browse http://www.paneris.org/repository via browser,
>but when I try to use CVS to connect to this server, I must apply username/password.
>And I don\'t know what to enter.
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11876,'Fri Jun 11 19:15:00 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welcome to Paneris Andrij',5,11875,'
>Andrij,
>I am not a very proficient at sysadmin, but I think that I have created
>a user account for you.
>I will send you the password in a separate email.
Thank you for account. CVS is working perfectly. I can checkout you project from /repository.
>This should let you in and (probably) give you complete
>control of the machine, (I expect you will need root password next).
>Please use with discretion and care.
>As I have not met you I am taking a risk trusting you
>not to abuse the system.
Of cource, don\'t worry.
Tomorrow (Saturday) I am going to make deeper investigation of webmacro in order to make some simple pages using it.
Best regards
Andrij Korud
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11877,'Sat Jun 12 16:14:14 1999','I am ready',5,0,'
Just now I\'ve setup and configured everything:
Apache, Java, JServ and Webmacro. Everything id working, I can run all examples from Webmacros distribution and also I\'ve tried to make some basic pages.
Also as I\'ve written you in previous letter, now I have good CVS access to ganesh.
Best regards
Andrij Korud
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11878,'Sun Jun 13 13:28:36 1999','Re: I am ready',3,11877,'
>Just now I\'ve setup and configured everything:
>Apache, Java, JServ and Webmacro. Everything id working, I can run all examples from Webmacros distribution and also I\'ve tried to make some basic pages.
Cool, well done.
You will now need to install postgres and you should then be able to
install our datadictionary, around which most/all of our
current work is based.
We have just gained a job to re-do a book publisher\'s
site (we did the current version at http://www.bloomsbury.com/ )
This has a VERY tight timescale (2 months) so we may well need your
help sooner that expected.
If you have any problems installing our software let us know.
yours
TimP
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11879,'Tue Jun 15 19:08:04 1999','Re: Re: I am ready',5,11878,'
>>Just now I\'ve setup and configured everything:
>>Apache, Java, JServ and Webmacro. Everything id working, I can run all examples from Webmacros distribution and also I\'ve tried to make some basic pages.
>Cool, well done.
>You will now need to install postgres and you should then be able to
>install our datadictionary, around which most/all of our
>current work is based.
PostgreSQL 6.5 is installed, configured and ready, I also downloaded
your datadictionary and installed it.
>We have just gained a job to re-do a book publisher\'s
>site (we did the current version at http://www.bloomsbury.com/ )
>This has a VERY tight timescale (2 months) so we may well need your
>help sooner that expected.
>
>If you have any problems installing our software let us know.
>yours
>TimP
Ok, now I have free time and I would like to make some work in
order to earn some money till mid of July, because from end of
July to mid of August I will have vacations.
Best regards
Andrij Korud
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11880,'Tue Jun 15 21:30:06 1999','Re: Re: Re: I am ready',1,11879,'
>Ok, now I have free time and I would like to make some work in
>order to earn some money till mid of July, because from end of
>July to mid of August I will have vacations.
good news, I am specing the site now. We should be working by monday.
timj
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11881,'Wed Jun 16 1:22:51 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: I am ready',3,11880,'
Tim(J),
Andrij is not currently in the paneris alias, so he would not have got this.
Andrij,
I will put you in the alias, you will get copied with a lot of emails,
many of which will not be relevant to you, but it does help get the
feel of the organisation.
>>Ok, now I have free time and I would like to make some work in
>>order to earn some money till mid of July, because from end of
>>July to mid of August I will have vacations.
>good news, I am specing the site now. We should be working by monday.
Andrij,
This is the Bloomsbury site,
you will need the username iway and the password sensitive
to access the project node at <a href=http://www/paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/>partners/iway/</a>.
We have a large book selling site to do in a very tigth timescale.
yours
TimP
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11882,'Wed Jun 16 7:50:09 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I am ready',1,11881,'
>Tim(J),
>Andrij is not currently in the paneris alias, so he would not have got this.
how are the new messageboards coming along?
>This is the Bloomsbury site,
>you will need the username iway and the password sensitive
>to access the project node at <a href=http://www/paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/>partners/iway/</a>.
no, for various \'openness\' reasons, the bloomsbury node has been moved to /partners/bloomsbury i-way are happy with this as it doesn\'t expost the rest of their customer information.
timj
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11883,'Wed Jun 16 18:00:20 1999','Very interesting project',5,0,'
Hi.
I am ready to begin work at this project. I\'ve read all documents and have found that this is very inetresting project to do. Please let me know what and when should I do.
Bye.
P.S. Do you know where all messages from http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/andrijk/messages disappeared? Today I\'ve found this page absolutely empty :(
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11884,'Fri Jun 18 13:30:31 1999','Some problems with paneris',5,0,'
Hey. I am investigating old/new paneris web sites and have found the following problem:
1. When going to www.paneris.org/repository I am redirected ganesh.paneris.org and ganesh.paneris.org is not in DNS, so I got an error.
2. My telnet access to www.paneris.org is blocked (account still exist)
3. When I try to use CVS now (18.06.1999 13:30 GMT) I got an error "Too many open files in the system". This may require fine tuning of server.
Best regards.
Andrij Korud
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11885,'Fri Jun 18 14:46:51 1999','Re: Some problems with paneris',3,11884,'
Hi Andrij,
>Hey. I am investigating old/new paneris web sites and have found the following problem:
>1. When going to www.paneris.org/repository I am redirected ganesh.paneris.org and ganesh.paneris.org is not in DNS, so I got an error.
I don\'t know what is causing this.
>2. My telnet access to www.paneris.org is blocked (account still exist)
It looks as though we have been hacked.
Myles has gone to Reading (where the server is housed) to try to sort out the problem.
All telnet access is broken.
Either an attack or the password file has been corrupted.
The only thing half working is apache.
>3. When I try to use CVS now (18.06.1999 13:30 GMT) I got an error "Too many open files in the system". This may require fine tuning of server.
The \'too many open files\' problem is a real problem.
If a postgres session/ db connection is not closed then we very quickly reach a limit.
This does need to be fixed.
It may even be what is causing noone to be able to log in.
yours
Tim P
','f','',133,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
134,'colinr','colinr List',8134,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/colinr/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/colinr/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11886,'Thu Sep 10 4:36:29 YYY 1998','Updated People Page',3,0,'
Colin,
I just happened to have a photo of you \'hanging around\',
so put it on your node on PanEris.
You can of course chnage it :)
yours
Tim P
','f','',134,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11887,'Thu Dec 3 15:33:29 1998','Colin\'s page mended',3,0,'
Colin,
I have replaced you messages and invoices with a copy I had locally,
and mended your subject.shtml by hand.
Please check that everything is as it should be.
love tim
','f','',134,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11888,'Tue Dec 8 11:27:08 1998','Test email (please ignore)',32,0,'
Email test
','f','',134,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11889,'Mon Feb 8 16:01:47 1999','IP Address not recognised',32,0,'
Hi All,
Due to recent revisions in security, I now seem unable to
use the system make changes on the PMS system.
I assume that my IP address will rarely be the same twice
as my dial-up service assigns dynamic addresses.
Would "registered user" passwords not suffice to prevent
unauthorised changes?
Colin
','f','',134,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11890,'Tue Feb 16 10:06:01 1999','Still got those IP blues',32,0,'
Hi Tim,
I\'ve dialed up several times to see if there is a consistancy
in the IP address my service provider gives me. However
it seems not to be so. Thus:
195.147.14.51
195.147.14.108
195.147.14.51
194.126.85.133
','f','',134,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11891,'Tue Feb 16 10:06:35 1999','Still got those IP blues',32,0,'
Hi Tim,
I\'ve dialed up several times to see if there is a consistancy
in the IP address my service provider gives me. However
it seems not to be so. Thus:
195.147.14.51
195.147.14.108
195.147.14.51
194.126.85.133
','f','',134,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11892,'Tue Feb 16 10:11:50 1999','Still got those IP blues',32,0,'
Hi Tim,
I\'ve dialed up several times to see if there is a consistancy
in the IP address my service provider gives me. However
it seems not to be so. Thus:
195.147.14.51
195.147.14.108
195.147.14.51
194.126.85.133
','f','',134,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
135,'danielh','danielh List',8135,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/danielh/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/danielh/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11893,'Fri Oct 16 11:39:59 1998','animation',1,0,'
Hi dan,
Can you take aq look at something for me, and let me know how much it\'s going to cost.
We are developing a large site for a company called iglu.com (full details at paneris/partners/apr/iglu)
user id: apr
password: belgarion
if you get challenged.
check out the phase 1 development site. It has a crap animated logo in the top left, can you do some flash to make it real nice?
Cheers
TimJ
(tim@hoop.co.uk)
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11894,'Fri Oct 16 13:39:38 1998','Added to cirulation',3,0,'
Daniel,
I have added you to the cirulation for new messages.
yours
TimP
(Assuming that your IP address is always 195.188.200.97)
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11895,'Fri Oct 16 16:58:25 1998','Re: Added to cirulation',6,11894,'Posted on behalf of DanielH by TimP
Thanks Tim,
I have updated my page now, it looks nice, but all th hyperlinks open within
the frame. I know that to do this you need TARGET="_name" but I don\'t know
what the name needed is . . . can u help, so I have a nice pop-up window
meaning people can still use your site?
Daniel
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11896,'Fri Oct 16 17:00:13 1998','Re: Re: Added to cirulation',3,11895,'
>Thanks Tim,
>I have updated my page now, it looks nice, but all th hyperlinks open within
>the frame. I know that to do this you need TARGET="_name" but I don\'t know
>what the name needed is . . . can u help, so I have a nice pop-up window
>meaning people can still use your site?
I either use target=_new or target =_top, never have known
if they are right/work with IE or anything :)
yours
timP
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11897,'Tue Dec 8 19:41:33 1998','Can You Help?',6,0,'
Bit dumb, this, but I am doing a frameset that includes JavaScript rollovers. I want it to preload, and I also want the script to be cross-platform compatible.
Have a look at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/djh-graphics/sixteen/ and see if you can help. Much appreciated,
Daniel Hart
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11898,'Tue Dec 8 21:18:06 1998','Re: Can You Help?',1,11897,'
>Bit dumb, this, but I am doing a frameset that includes JavaScript rollovers. I want it to preload, and I also want the script to be cross-platform compatible.
>Have a look at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/djh-graphics/sixteen/ and see if you can help. Much appreciated,
http://www.iglu.com/html/main.html
should have what you are after. if you find any platform or browser issues, please let me know.
TimJ
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11899,'Wed Dec 9 0:53:42 1998','Re: Can You Help?',3,11897,'
Daniel,
Myles and I have both had a bit of a look at your code.
The main thing is, even though you got it from developer.com
it was pretty ugly.
I figured out that javascript will not let you have a variable name starting with a digit and
inserted some brackets to ensure that we were not relieing on javascript\'s
scoping rules. But mostly I indented it so that it looked pretty.
Something like where i would have left it is given at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/danielh/frame.html
Myles then used a loop to make the script smaller and
more elegant, as given at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/danielh/frame_new.html
Hope this helps
timP
>Bit dumb, this, but I am doing a frameset that includes JavaScript rollovers. I want it to preload, and I also want the script to be cross-platform compatible.
>Have a look at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/djh-graphics/sixteen/ and see if you can help. Much appreciated,
>Daniel Hart
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11900,'Sun Dec 13 1:11:10 1998','More JavaScript queries . . . ',6,0,'
Hello again,
I have created a frameset which does a JavaScript \'marker\' so the page the user is on is clearly indicated. Problem is, I can\'t get the mouseover graphics to preload - it is really sluggish initially while the graphics are loading, then it is OK cos of caching.
Can you suggest anything?
look at
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/djh-graphics/uni
ta!
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11901,'Mon Dec 14 10:11:27 1998','Re: More JavaScript queries . . . ',1,11900,'
Daniel (TimP - read on.)
>
> firstly, thank you very much for helping me with the last problem.
no stress
>
>Now, could you do a repeat performance? I have created a frameset on
>www.users.zetnet.co.uk/djh-graphics/uni and I have nicked your pre-load code
>from IGLU and incorporated it in as best a way as I can, including a new
>\'rollover\' directory within and so on. Problem is, while it doesn\'t come up
>with any errors, it doesn\'t seem to actually work - i.e. the rollover is
>initially really sluggish, I would prefer to wait a little longer and get
>instant results!
>
>Spot any obvious errors?!
yes, why did you get rid of:
function roll(which,state)
{
if ( document.images ) {
document.images[which].src = imgs[which][state].src;
}
}
which picks up the rollover image from the preloaded array. you replaced it with:
//changes images
function changeImage(anImage, newSource) {
if (active)
{
if (CurImage != anImage)
{
document.images[anImage].src = newSource;
}
}
}
which will load the image in again!
>
>You may be interested in seeing what else I am up to, doing a site for fun,
>in Flash 3, its off the boil at the moment but you can see it on
>www.users.zetnet.co.uk/djh-graphics/stereolab - there is streaming Flash
>stuff, go via SONGS and so far all I have done is PING PONG.
Absolutely fucking brilliant. TimP - you must show this to your music blokes. Steroelab don\'t need to do a video for MTV to TOTP now. Really cool.
The best think I have seen online for ages.
>
>Seen it before? Can\'t remember. Anyway Tim, thanks for all that, don\'t worry
>if you don\'t have time, hope to hear from you soon.
See you on saturday,
TimJ
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11902,'Mon Dec 14 11:37:29 1998','Re: Re: More JavaScript queries . . . ',32,11901,'
>>You may be interested in seeing what else I am up to, doing a site for fun,
>>in Flash 3, its off the boil at the moment but you can see it on
>>www.users.zetnet.co.uk/djh-graphics/stereolab - there is streaming Flash
>>stuff, go via SONGS and so far all I have done is PING PONG.
I tried to look at your site, but you have not included the EMBED tag for Netscape
Navigater. I assume you will be remidying ASAP? Can you let me know
when I\'ll be able to see it?
ColinR
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11903,'Mon Dec 14 12:05:15 1998','Re: More JavaScript queries . . . ',2,11900,'
Daniel,
Let\'s consider the first item on the menu.
Looking at the source I see that img_preload loads
"frame/Img1.gif" and "frame/rollover/Img1.gif", neither
of which exist or are used anywhere else in the scripts.
The rollover script uses "frame/1off.gif",
"frame/rollover/1on.gif" and the "highlight the current
page" section uses "frame/1select.gif". Alter img_preload
to load these 3 images for each item:
i.e. use \'img_preload("1")\' etc and alter img_preload to
be:
function img_preload (which)
{
imgs[which] = new Array(3);
imgs[which][0] = new Image(100,100);
imgs[which][0].src = "frame/" + which + "off.gif";
imgs[which][1] = new Image(100,100);
imgs[which][1].src = "frame/" + which + "on.gif";
imgs[which][2] = new Image(100,100);
imgs[which][2].src = "frame/rollover/" + which + "select.gif";
}
Hope this helps,
Myles
>Hello again,
>I have created a frameset which does a JavaScript \'marker\'
>so the page the user is on is clearly indicated. Problem
>is, I can\'t get the mouseover graphics to preload - it is
>really sluggish initially while the graphics are loading,
>then it is OK cos of caching.
>Can you suggest anything?
>look at
>http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/djh-graphics/uni
>ta!
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11904,'Tue Dec 15 16:29:10 1998','Re: Re: Re: More JavaScript queries . . . ',6,11902,'Posted on behalf of DanielH by TimP
Hi Col,
this is what I put -
<object classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"
codebase="http://active.macromedia.com/flash2/cabs/swflash.cab#version=2,0,0
,0" width="550" height="320">
<param name="movie" value="pingpong.swf">
<param name="QUALITY" value="high">
<param name="LOOP" value="false">
<embed src="pingpong.swf"
pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/" width="550"
height="320" quality="high" loop="false"
TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash" BGCOLOR="#FF0000"></embed>
</object>
what have I done wrong?
Daniel Hart
graphic designer
---------------------------------
djh-graphics@zetnet.co.uk
PS did you see Nought?
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11905,'Mon Jan 4 14:37:42 1999','eclipse events',1,0,'
Dan,
Got a customer who is doing a big "event" in Cornwall for the eclipse. They
need a site, and everyone involved thinks something Flash would look great.
We have a meeting on Tuesday 12/01 at Heathrow at 10am. Can you make it?
TimJ
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11906,'Thu Jan 7 13:45:58 1999','Re: eclipse events',6,11905,'
Yes, I\'m up for that, I have a fair idea of the sort of stuff that would work, I have a number of sites that I would like to emulate. Anyway, hear from you later regarding fine details. I assume we will not have access to a computer.
Daniel
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11907,'Fri Jan 8 21:15:23 1999','Re: Re: eclipse events',1,11906,'
Dan,
the meeting it not actually at heathrow, but rather at:
Pandemonium
Cedar House
Vine Lane
Hillingdon
UB10 0BX
So, I think the best thing is for you to take the london bus and get of at hillingdon (be careful, not all of them stop there). I will drive up from poole and can pick you up, or you can grap a cab, i don\'t think it\'s far.
Do you have a car or a mobile (eithier will make things easier).
We will be meeting with Giles from Keyhaven (nice bloks, they put a lot of work our way), and the customer (Pademonium). Giles wpuld like to meet before-hand (at about 9am). We will try and find a decent place for coffee.
give me a bell to discuss things, we still have no info from the customer, but this is supposed to be forthcoming by 9am monday.
TimJ
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11908,'Fri Mar 5 17:08:45 1999','Sowboarding?',3,0,'
I have modified your page as I imagine \'Sowboarding\' might get picked up by Netnanny :)
I also got it to validate to \'HTML 4.0 transitional\' you should try it :)
yours
timP
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11909,'Fri Mar 5 17:18:48 1999','Re: Sowboarding?',1,11908,'
>I have modified your page as I imagine \'Sowboarding\' might get picked up by Netnanny :)
funny, but not java...
timj
:-)
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11910,'Wed Apr 7 10:12:04 1999','website stats',6,0,'
Does anyone know of a website tracking method that, as well as the root domain can trace people that have visited your site which also gives more stats than just the last ten users?
I don\'t want all the \'every hour\', screen resolution etc crap, but I do want the most detailed single profiles. Any chance? Many thanks,
Daniel
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11911,'Wed Apr 7 10:48:00 1999','Re: website stats',3,11910,'
>Does anyone know of a website tracking method that, as well as the root domain can trace people that have visited your site which also gives more stats than just the last ten users?
>I don\'t want all the \'every hour\', screen resolution etc crap, but I do want the most detailed single profiles. Any chance? Many thanks,
>Daniel
Try http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/analog.pl
Is that what you want?
yours
timP
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11912,'Fri Jun 11 12:28:49 1999','site review',6,0,'
check out the *final* site for Cornwall Eclipse \'99 - you need the Flash3 Player, I will have a "got flash?" entry page and title the page too. Any glitches and weirdness please report, and general opinion as well of course, especially loading time.
http://www.djh-graphics.com/eclipse/intro.html
many thanks,
Daniel Hart
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11913,'Mon Jun 14 8:28:16 1999','Re: site review',1,11912,'
Daniel,
>check out the *final* site for Cornwall Eclipse \'99 - you need the Flash3 Player, I will have a "got flash?" entry page and title
the page too. Any glitches and weirdness please report, and general opinion as well of course, especially loading time.
>
>http://www.djh-graphics.com/eclipse/intro.html
Fantastic, the only thing missing is "this gorgeous site was designed and build by DJH graphics - proud to be a member of the
paneris community", or something similar.
Loading time - not a problem at all.
Has penny signed this off? Can we bill her the final amount.
Cheers
Timj
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11914,'Mon Jun 14 11:43:57 1999','Re: site review',3,11912,'
>check out the *final* site for Cornwall Eclipse \'99 -
>you need the Flash3 Player, I will have a "got flash?" entry page and title the page too.
>Any glitches and weirdness please report, and general opinion as well of course, especially loading time.
>http://www.djh-graphics.com/eclipse/intro.html
Its lush.
yours
timP
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11915,'Mon Jun 14 13:11:42 1999','Re: Re: site review',5,11914,'
>>check out the *final* site for Cornwall Eclipse \'99 -
>>you need the Flash3 Player, I will have a "got flash?" entry page and title the page too.
>>Any glitches and weirdness please report, and general opinion as well of course, especially loading time.
>>http://www.djh-graphics.com/eclipse/intro.html
>Its lush.
Site is really COOL. Very well done.
Loading time is reasonable (64kbit/s link)
Andrijk
','f','',135,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
136,'jackm','jackm List',8136,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/jackm/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/jackm/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11916,'Wed Mar 10 10:22:52 1999','Hi Jack',3,0,'
Hi Jack,
Could you find the time to fill out your details
on the Paneris site?
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',136,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
137,'johnr','johnr List',8137,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/johnr/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/johnr/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11917,'Fri Mar 12 21:08:32 1999','Welcome John Royle',3,0,'
Hi all,
A note to say welcome to John Royle, who has just joined
the PanEris community of his own free will :)
John, welcome.
How did you do on registering yourself in our tortuous
entrance system?
I think I am right in saying that you are the first one
to get through without my having to enter the details myself.
As with everything on the site it is planned to
re-vamp these pages when we manage to get paneris2
(http://www.paneris.org/) rolled out.
Please let us all know about yourself and your company.
Please feel free to comment on anything that doesn\'t work or
doesn\'t make sense to you.
There are quite a lot of people now in Paneris and many of us haven\'t met each other or even spoken on the \'phone.
There is a lot of evidence of what we are up to on the site
but some things haven\'t been written down.
The current site was mostly built by me, in a very
piecemeal fashion.
You have already discovered that I need your IP address to allow you to modify things, this was caused by some kids starting to abuse the data.
The message boards have some ideosynchracies? :
the main board and the individual messages are generated
by templates which can be modified online.
The circulation is generated from all known emails
but there are two \'special\' addresses:
Catalyst which shouldn\'t be checked, they are only here because I work on their site
and
Paneris which is an alias for TimJ, TimP, MylesC, WilliamC, KiraB, RaechelG and ColinR who are \'the coders\' or those most into PanEris.
An individual message retains the circulation as it was at the time of posting, so it will take a while for you to be included on all messageboards.
A good background read is our last agm at http://www.paneris.co.uk/philosophy/agm/
again welcome,
make yourself at home
yours
TimP
','f','',137,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11918,'Fri Mar 12 22:14:28 1999','Re: Welcome John Royle',1,11917,'
All,
I have had a brief correspondance with john, following my rather vague \'test\' post on trust.members.opertunities.
My post (04 March 1999 11:58):
Thought I\'d ask here first,
any good web artists/designers out there?
Cheers
timj
tim@hoop.co.uk
:end post
Reply from John (05 March 1999 13:26):
I might be able to help you. Can you provide a few more details?
Regards
John Royle
tel:07801-300729
roylej@glanton.com
:end reply
now i feel sure that I would have replied to this, but don\'t appear to have it. Appologies John if I didn\'t answer the mail.
Anyway, I have nothing to add to timp\'s eloquent welcome message, so welcome aboard.
timj
','f','',137,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
138,'keithh','keithh List',8138,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/keithh/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/keithh/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11919,'Tue Mar 9 22:06:13 1999','invoice',1,0,'
Keith,
>you haven\'t billed me for the W & W phase 1 work. You need to invoice me
>for £333:50.
I make it 12.25 *26.68 = 326.83, but have used your figure. you can get to invoices from you paneris home page (www.paneris.co.uk/people/keithh)
Don\'t forget that you can bill me extra for management time;
>if you\'d rather, we can scrap the 4 hrs. work I have to bill for \'Corps of
>Com\'; it\'s up to you mate.
um, I\'d kinda like to keep the projects seperate if that is ok.
Cheers
Tim
','f','',138,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
139,'krugerd','krugerd List',8139,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/krugerd/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/krugerd/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11920,'Wed Mar 10 10:29:41 1999','Hi Kruger',3,0,'
Hi Kruger,
I have just been looking at the people pages on paneris
and found that yours was so old it didn\'t have the
\'modify me\' link.
I have added it and altered the greenball images.
If you could find teh time to fill in the rest of the
details it would be nice.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',139,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
140,'people','Paneris People',8140,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/people/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/people/',1);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11921,'Wed Sep 15 16:54:14 1999','query',122,0,'Posted to the old system by shako (shako@worldonline.nl)
d.d 07/98 visited your site. Might have a proposition which should benefit all and would adhere to your company\'s filosophy.
Interested? Let us know,please?
Kolja van Putten
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11922,'Wed Sep 15 16:54:14 1999','Re: query',3,11921,'
Hi,
What is your proposal?
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11923,'Wed Sep 15 16:54:14 1999','ICQ',3,0,'
Has everyone got ICQ?
If you have then can you put your number on your page.
yours
timP
ICQ: 9748434
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11924,'Tue Sep 22 13:20:59 1998','Reviewer needed, 1 hour budget',3,0,'
All,
I have just set up a small <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/timber/\'>project</a> with 1 hour budgetted for Quality Assurance.
Does anyone want it?
As this is the first QA review we have held on PanEris
it is bound to take much longer than 1 hour,
but that is all the budget will stand.
yours
timP
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11925,'Fri Oct 30 18:13:58 1998','AGM agenda',3,0,'
Dear all,
I have put WilliamC\'s agenda on the people node,
please read and modify there.
yours
TimP
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11926,'Sat Oct 31 18:16:41 1998','Re: AGM agenda',4,11925,'
so, when???
I want to go back to Holland soon ...
also where of course?
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11927,'Sat Oct 31 18:26:30 1998','Re: Re: AGM agenda',3,11926,'
>so, when???
>I want to go back to Holland soon ...
That would seem to be the determiner then.
>also where of course?
Obviously I vote for Oxford,
though The Hague would be cooler :)
As far as I can see it should be on your way to Holland,
with TimJ to coincide.
yours
TimP
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11928,'Sat Oct 31 18:30:34 1998','Re: Re: Re: AGM agenda',4,11927,'
>>also where of course?
>Obviously I vote for Oxford,
>though The Hague would be cooler :)
:) sadly there\'s not really room!
>As far as I can see it should be on your way to Holland,
>with TimJ to coincide.
Right, some time this coming week. Weekend at the latest.
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11929,'Sat Oct 31 18:31:35 1998','Re: Re: Re: AGM agenda',4,11927,'
>Obviously I vote for Oxford,
>though The Hague would be cooler :)
MTS Oxford has the advantage that we could have a bash
at making the new box work.
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11930,'Sun Nov 1 11:42:19 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: AGM agenda',1,11928,'
>>>also where of course?
>>Obviously I vote for Oxford,
>>though The Hague would be cooler :)
>:) sadly there\'s not really room!
>>As far as I can see it should be on your way to Holland,
>>with TimJ to coincide.
>Right, some time this coming week. Weekend at the latest.
I\'m up for this. what about tuesday night informal session, wednesday lunchtime formal session.
I have an A1 flip pad which I will bring up, we just need somewhere to hang it.
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11931,'Tue Nov 10 13:14:52 1998','xmas party',1,0,'
Can I propose a paneris xmas party on 19/12/1998 in oxford.
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11932,'Mon Nov 16 11:15:53 1998','Re: xmas party',2,11931,'
>Can I propose a paneris xmas party on 19/12/1998 in oxford.
Seconded
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11933,'Fri Nov 20 18:13:31 1998','IMPORTANT; was Re: xmas party',4,11931,'
>Can I propose a paneris xmas party on 19/12/1998 in oxford.
Right, is that definitive? (I need to fix my travel.)
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11934,'Fri Nov 20 18:55:29 1998','Re: IMPORTANT; was Re: xmas party',32,11933,'
>>Can I propose a paneris xmas party on 19/12/1998 in oxford.
>Right, is that definitive? (I need to fix my travel.)
Fine by me!
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11935,'Mon Nov 23 11:15:54 1998','Re: IMPORTANT; was Re: xmas party',2,11933,'
>>Can I propose a paneris xmas party on 19/12/1998 in oxford.
>Right, is that definitive? (I need to fix my travel.)
I expect it to happen...
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11936,'Mon Nov 23 13:29:03 1998','Re: Re: IMPORTANT; was Re: xmas party',1,11934,'
>>>Can I propose a paneris xmas party on 19/12/1998 in oxford.
>>Right, is that definitive? (I need to fix my travel.)
>Fine by me!
I\'m on for it, can I invite Kruger, Keith, NicR and Jack?
I\'m not sure about patrick, he is more at home in the Groucho club :)
TimJ
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11937,'Wed Nov 25 1:22:57 1998','Re: Re: Re: IMPORTANT; was Re: xmas party',3,11936,'
>>>>Can I propose a paneris xmas party on 19/12/1998 in oxford.
>>>Right, is that definitive? (I need to fix my travel.)
>>Fine by me!
>I\'m on for it, can I invite Kruger, Keith, NicR and Jack?
>I\'m not sure about patrick, he is more at home in the Groucho club :)
This sounds good.
Do you want it to be Saturday Night (19th)?
Or is the Friday preferable?
Who else should we invite?
Do we want to invite sparks? chameleon? airflow?
So far it seems only to be boys :(
I assume it is +partners,
Then, of course, the big question - whare?
yours
timP
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11938,'Wed Nov 25 10:24:28 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: IMPORTANT; was Re: xmas party',1,11937,'
>>>>>Can I propose a paneris xmas party on 19/12/1998 in oxford.
>>>>Right, is that definitive? (I need to fix my travel.)
>>>Fine by me!
>>I\'m on for it, can I invite Kruger, Keith, NicR and Jack?
>>I\'m not sure about patrick, he is more at home in the Groucho club :)
>This sounds good.
You mean I should invite Kruger, Keith, NicR and Jack?
>Do you want it to be Saturday Night (19th)?
>Or is the Friday preferable?
Sat gets my vote.
>Who else should we invite?
>Do we want to invite sparks? chameleon? airflow?
I think it is up to you, remember that they will all be partying down at your place, if you think that they will be cool about the den of inequity that is 77 hurst st, then that is fine.
will: i mentioned the party to dan, and he seemed very keen, what do you think?
>So far it seems only to be boys :(
>I assume it is +partners,
yep, I would love jenny to come, perhaps my parents will babysit?
>Then, of course, the big question - whare?
I sort of assumed hurst st, as it\'s the only place big enough to party (and for everyone to kip down afterwards), this ok?
First we should go to a nearby restraunt - Thai Orchid worked well last year, but anywhere is fine. We must book.
TimJ
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11939,'Wed Nov 25 10:46:35 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: IMPORTANT; was Re: xmas party',4,11937,'
>Do you want it to be Saturday Night (19th)?
>Or is the Friday preferable?
>Then, of course, the big question - whare?
It\'s in Oxford on 19th and that IS FINAL.
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11940,'Mon Nov 30 0:06:11 1998','Multimedia websites???',3,0,'
All,
On Thursday DanielH came around to 77 Hurst St.
and discovered to his dismay that not one of the
machines connected to the web had a functioning
soundcard.
Then tonight Reds and Lee come around.
Reds is a composer and Lee a singer.
Reds is familiar with the normal set of
electronic music applications and protocols
(whatever they are...)
So what I would like to know is what role has sound/music
to play in the web/our immediate future?
love
tim
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11941,'Mon Nov 30 0:08:14 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IMPORTANT; was Re: xmas party',3,11938,'
>>>>>>Can I propose a paneris xmas party on 19/12/1998 in oxford.
>>>>>Right, is that definitive? (I need to fix my travel.)
>>>>Fine by me!
>>>I\'m on for it, can I invite Kruger, Keith, NicR and Jack?
>>>I\'m not sure about patrick, he is more at home in the Groucho club :)
>>This sounds good.
>You mean I should invite Kruger, Keith, NicR and Jack?
>>Do you want it to be Saturday Night (19th)?
>>Or is the Friday preferable?
>Sat gets my vote.
>>Who else should we invite?
>>Do we want to invite sparks? chameleon? airflow?
>I think it is up to you, remember that they will all be partying down at your place, if you think that they will be cool about the den of inequity that is 77 hurst st, then that is fine.
>will: i mentioned the party to dan, and he seemed very keen, what do you think?
>>So far it seems only to be boys :(
>>I assume it is +partners,
>yep, I would love jenny to come, perhaps my parents will babysit?
>>Then, of course, the big question - whare?
>I sort of assumed hurst st, as it\'s the only place big enough to party (and for everyone to kip down afterwards), this ok?
>First we should go to a nearby restraunt - Thai Orchid worked well last year, but anywhere is fine. We must book.
>TimJ
Remember to book it.
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11942,'Mon Nov 30 9:07:07 1998','Re: Multimedia websites???',1,11940,'
>All,
>On Thursday DanielH came around to 77 Hurst St.
>and discovered to his dismay that not one of the
>machines connected to the web had a functioning
>soundcard.
shame on you
>Then tonight Reds and Lee come around.
>Reds is a composer and Lee a singer.
>Reds is familiar with the normal set of
>electronic music applications and protocols
>(whatever they are...)
dunno, but I can goldwave.
>So what I would like to know is what role has sound/music
>to play in the web/our immediate future?
I\'ve had very little demand for any sound stuff, and obviously you havn\'t eithier. I do know there is a lot going on (online music development), but I find musicians (and music) even less accessable than art/design (and designers).
You should listen to some radio online though.
>love
>tim
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11943,'Mon Nov 30 11:22:32 1998','Re: Multimedia websites???',4,11940,'
>On Thursday DanielH came around to 77 Hurst St.
>and discovered to his dismay that not one of the
>machines connected to the web had a functioning
>soundcard.
Even I\'ve got sound ... mind you I make damn sure web
pages don\'t get to know that---I hate multimedia.
>So what I would like to know is what role has sound/music
>to play in the web/our immediate future?
Music on the web is really big business to the point where
the RIA are correct to be worried about MP3. I can\'t
remember the exact figures.
You and Myles probably know more people with web/sound
requirements than Tim and I do. The technology isn\'t
complicated but there is a bit of a problem in that
some of the tools for packaging the content (as opposed
to the clients) are not free.
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11944,'Mon Nov 30 13:57:13 1998','Re: Multimedia websites???',2,11940,'
>All,
>On Thursday DanielH came around to 77 Hurst St.
>and discovered to his dismay that not one of the
>machines connected to the web had a functioning
>soundcard.
Oh how I miss crashing my computer when I do anything
which triggers a system sound when WS_FTP is playing
its "operation complete" wav :-)
>Then tonight Reds and Lee come around.
>Reds is a composer and Lee a singer.
>Reds is familiar with the normal set of
>electronic music applications and protocols
>(whatever they are...)
>So what I would like to know is what role has sound/music
>to play in the web/our immediate future?
If you create music, it\'s great for jamming and getting
sounds/samples/sequences.
If you sell music then the web is a potentially very
important delivery mechanism, but it\'s not quite there
yet (competing standards etc).
If you are a user then it\'ll mean more annoying tunes on
pages and annoying clicks and burps when you move your
mouse. I\'ve never found any sounds that acually help on
a web site (and I\'m afraid to say that DanielH\'s Flash
site for Massive attack is no exception - although sound
it quite important for playing the songs!).
If you are a developer, then I suggest it won\'t make much
difference unless you are developing a "media" web-site for
a magazine/record label/band etc. And any customer who is
not commisioning such a site should be vigorously disuaded
from thinking it helps :-)
>love
>tim
My 0.02. Myles
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11945,'Mon Nov 30 23:15:33 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IMPORTANT; was Re: xmas party',3,11941,'
>>>>>>>Can I propose a paneris xmas party on 19/12/1998 in oxford.
>>>>>>Right, is that definitive? (I need to fix my travel.)
>>>>>Fine by me!
>>>>I\'m on for it, can I invite Kruger, Keith, NicR and Jack?
>>>>I\'m not sure about patrick, he is more at home in the Groucho club :)
>>>This sounds good.
>>You mean I should invite Kruger, Keith, NicR and Jack?
>>>Do you want it to be Saturday Night (19th)?
>>>Or is the Friday preferable?
>>Sat gets my vote.
>>>Who else should we invite?
>>>Do we want to invite sparks? chameleon? airflow?
>>I think it is up to you, remember that they will all be partying down at your place, if you think that they will be cool about the den of inequity that is 77 hurst st, then that is fine.
>>will: i mentioned the party to dan, and he seemed very keen, what do you think?
>>>So far it seems only to be boys :(
>>>I assume it is +partners,
>>yep, I would love jenny to come, perhaps my parents will babysit?
>>>Then, of course, the big question - whare?
>>I sort of assumed hurst st, as it\'s the only place big enough to party (and for everyone to kip down afterwards), this ok?
>>First we should go to a nearby restraunt - Thai Orchid worked well last year, but anywhere is fine. We must book.
>>TimJ
>Remember to book it.
Booked a table for 9.00 for 16 people.
Who is coming?
TimJ, Jenny, TimP, Ruth, Myles, Hannah, WilliamC,
Colin, Steph, Daniel, ........
yours
timp
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11946,'Tue Dec 1 0:00:05 1998','Re: Multimedia websites???',3,11940,'
TimP>So what I would like to know is what role has sound/music
TimP>to play in the web/our immediate future?
TimJ>>I\'ve had very little demand for any sound stuff,
TimJ>>and obviously you havn\'t eithier.
TimJ>>I do know there is a lot going on
TimJ>>(online music development), but I find musicians
TimJ>>(and music) even less accessable than art/design
TimJ>>(and designers).
MylesC>>If you are a user then it\'ll mean more annoying tunes on
MylesC>>pages and annoying clicks and burps when you move your
MylesC>>mouse. I\'ve never found any sounds that acually help on
MylesC>>a web site
WilliamC>>Even I\'ve got sound ... mind you I make damn sure web
WilliamC>>pages don\'t get to know that---I hate multimedia.
So (Colin and Daniel) no one has had a pleasant multimedia
experience on the web, knows anything of the technologies involved
or believes that music has a role to play in normal corporate websites.
Whilst I am of the same opinion, I can\'t believe that it
will always be this way, I sense an iconisation of music
which will enable paneris to <a href=http://www.vcnet.com/bms/features/nader.html>embrace and extend</a>
into the musical freelance community :)
No one seems to have an idea of what <em>the answer</em>
will be; but there will be one.
My experience of event driven sounds is a small exposure to the Mac and
a secondhand experience of Myles\' Postman Pat Windows 95 schema.
And don\'t forget that Brian Eno tune :(
Some points:
<ul>
<li>Sound should <strong>not</strong> uniquely convey information.
<li>Sound should be optional (just as graphics used to be)
<li>Sound should be personalisable (volume, speed, rythm maybe even tune)
</ul>
I think I might like a webpage which had a relatively ambient background
beat but which changed as I moved my mouse over possible hrefs and
again when I moved off the page.
Reds came round and gave me loads of music software,
so plug your sound cards back in :)
love
timP
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11947,'Tue Dec 1 0:47:49 1998','Re: Multimedia websites???',6,11940,'
Of course, some websites can\'t survive without sound as Tim and Myles found out . . .
any comments on my STEREOLAB website so far would be appreciated, it is currently viewable on www.users.zetnet.co.uk/djh-graphics/stereolab and you need Flash 3 and speakers turned up loud. Only thing working is SONGS, and Ping Pong within that. It\'ll take a lot of time . . . be critical or adulatory, any feedback welcome.
Other site to see is hello.to/m-attack - MASSIVE ATTACK - I heard they were rude to Fergie recently at an awards, what did they say, can anyone enlighten me?!
Daniel
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11948,'Tue Dec 1 0:50:38 1998','Re: Multimedia websites???',6,11940,'
A REALLY excellent though small site is www.nrg.be - all in Flash 3 - is that a sufficient riposte to the \'no sound\' argument?!
Daniel
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11949,'Wed Dec 2 15:20:23 1998','Vandals',3,0,'
All,
the search and replace facility has been used to
rather bad effect:
>A Search and Replace has been done at /people/colinr/ by IP addresss 130.94.108.62.
>See the results at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/colinr/search_and_replace_1.shtml.
I have now restricted its use to know ip addresses.
This is obviously not good enough,
but felt that we needed to do something quick.
The actual search and replace was a to b, which does not have an obvious
reverse, as b to a will cause some problems, but
b is used less frequently than a so this is probably tha way
to go.
Maybe we shouldn\'t wait until the worst happens before
implementing a bit more security.
love Tim
PS why is it always Colin that gets attacked?
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11950,'Fri Feb 12 12:11:53 1999','Application to join up!',99,0,'Posted on behalf of RachelG by TimP
Hi, I\'m writing to apply on behalf of myself and my partner Kira to join
your team. We don\'t have very much freelance experience at the moment,
but we\'re coming to the point in our careers when we\'re ready to move
into that sort of situation, and maybe our mix of skills can be useful.
Tim and Myles might remember us from when they came to discuss server
hosting here at Epinet and we spoke briefly.
Please find my CV attached as cv.html - in case the attachment doesn\'t
work, it can also be found at http://www.enlarion.demon.co.uk/cv.html
Kira\'s CV is also attached as cv1.html, and can also be found at
http://www.neutralino.demon.co.uk/cv1.html
By the way, would it be insufferably cheeky for me to inform you that
your web site crashes Netscape 4.5 running under Linux? :-} It appears
to be the UK HyperBanner applet that\'s at fault.
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11951,'Fri Feb 12 12:12:53 1999','Re: Application to join up!',1,11950,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by TimP
Hi Rachel,
>Hi, I\'m writing to apply on behalf of myself and my partner Kira to join
>your team. We don\'t have very much freelance experience at the moment,
>but we\'re coming to the point in our careers when we\'re ready to move
>into that sort of situation, and maybe our mix of skills can be useful.
Cool, we were hugely impressed by you when we met at epinet.
>
>Tim and Myles might remember us from when they came to discuss server
>hosting here at Epinet and we spoke briefly.
It was actually timj (me) and timp (tim@paneris.co.uk) who came to visit. I
am the one with more hair :)
>
>Please find my CV attached as cv.html - in case the attachment doesn\'t
>work, it can also be found at <http://www.enlarion.demon.co.uk/cv.html>
>
>Kira\'s CV is also attached as cv1.html, and can also be found at
><http://www.neutralino.demon.co.uk/cv1.html>
I have read through these (and your homepages). All good stuff.
I only have one concern, are epinet not going to be a bit concerned when
their key technologists go freelance, or do you anticipate continuing to
work with them on a freelance basis? Do they know your plans? I imagine
they will have very little choice but to continue work with you guys, as
replacing your skills won\'t be easy. Are they going to get pissed off with
us?
Anyway, none of this stops you signing up, a bit of b/g:
You have obviously been to hoop, which is really just a sales page. All the
real action takes place at www.paneris.co.uk . This is our office (and is
appropiately messy), but you can sign up on www.paneris.co.uk/people , and
check out /philosophy and /partners. Paneris has various tools for managing
a remote development team, and generally provides facilities that help
freelance projects.
Paneris is currently build with perl, but we are working hard on porting it
to webmacro.
We have our own development server (www.paneris.org), not a lot happens here
yet, but it is running redhat 5.2, apache, postgress, jserve etc. We can
give you accounts as long as you promise not to trash it.
On the work front, we seem to have a lot of projects \'about to happen\', but
are not exactly flooded at present. We are on the lookout for the next \'big
one\', we had a lot of fun building www.iglu.com in october last. The main
thing we have to do is get paneris.org working. Progress is not bad (but
not great eithier).
Great to have you on board, I was genueinely excited when I got you mail.
You may like to get on one of the paneris mailing lists. timp copes with
this (and with most things paneris related - it was originally his baby).
He is cc\'d, so should get intouch to set this up.
>
>By the way, would it be insufferably cheeky for me to inform you that
>your web site crashes Netscape 4.5 running under Linux? :-} It appears
>to be the UK HyperBanner applet that\'s at fault.
useless company HyperBanner, they don\'t generate any traffic anyway. gone.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11952,'Fri Feb 12 12:14:22 1999','Re: Re: Application to join up!',3,11951,'
Hi Rachel and Kira,
At 08:56 12/02/99 -0000, Tim Joyce wrote:
>Hi Rachel,
>
>>Hi, I\'m writing to apply on behalf of myself and my partner Kira to join
>>your team. We don\'t have very much freelance experience at the moment,
>>but we\'re coming to the point in our careers when we\'re ready to move
>>into that sort of situation, and maybe our mix of skills can be useful.
>Cool, we were hugely impressed by you when we met at epinet.
Certainly were.
It would be great if you were to join.
Myles and I skimmed your home pages last night and were very impressed.
If you two join you will take the coding strength from 4 to 6, which
is a significant change in constitution, but also exactly what we need.
>
>I only have one concern, are epinet not going to be a bit concerned when
>their key technologists go freelance, or do you anticipate continuing to
>work with them on a freelance basis? Do they know your plans? I imagine
>they will have very little choice but to continue work with you guys, as
>replacing your skills won\'t be easy. Are they going to get pissed off with
>us?
I cannot recommend highly enough that you do not burn your bridges.
All of us have our \'old jobs\' still in tact, mearly restructured
so that we can work from home and get payed contract rates.
TimJ and I have been selling like mad recently, and are hopeful that
we will have an overwhelming flood of work soon, but so is everyone else.
>
>Anyway, none of this stops you signing up, a bit of b/g:
>
>You have obviously been to hoop, which is really just a sales page. All the
>real action takes place at www.paneris.co.uk .
tim: We really must get the paneris business cards done ;)
>This is our office (and is
>appropiately messy), but you can sign up on www.paneris.co.uk/people , and
>check out /philosophy and /partners.
>Paneris has various tools for managing
>a remote development team, and generally provides facilities that help
>freelance projects.
Paneris has no membership fee or such, but it is expected that members
contribute to the site, either words, pictures or code.
www.paneris.co.uk is paid for by me, but we get panerisdev.i-way.co.uk for free and the new box has been paid for by our joint fund.
The current project is to translate paneris.co.uk into webmacro, amagamate it with panerisdev and port the lot to www.paneris.org.
>
>On the work front, we seem to have a lot of projects \'about to happen\', but
>are not exactly flooded at present. We are on the lookout for the next \'big
>one\', we had a lot of fun building www.iglu.com in october last. The main
>thing we have to do is get paneris.org working. Progress is not bad (but
>not great eithier).
>
>Great to have you on board, I was genueinely excited when I got you mail.
Me too.
>You may like to get on one of the paneris mailing lists. timp copes with
>this (and with most things paneris related - it was originally his baby).
>He is cc\'d, so should get intouch to set this up.
Are you experienced in setting up mailing lists?
We currently have a mail ailias set up by i-way, but it is not cool,
as only 5 of us are on it and I have to ask i-way to modify it.
To modify pages on paneris you currently need a known IP address,
as noone has had time to put a more sophisticated login together.
If you have a fixed IP and wish to modify stuff send it to me.
You can, obviously, reply to and initiate debates on the messageboards.
Please look at and review paneris, particularly /philosophy where you
will find most of our thoughts todate.
Please review http://www.paneris.co.uk/rules.shtml and /philosophy/money.shtml.
Paneris is politically entirely flat, though as I am older I try to
weedle old age concessions :)
Whilst Paneris has lots of people (23?) actually the core members are the
programmers (4). Particularly if you two vote as a block you will have a
considerable impact on direction.
Have you worked in an ISO-9000 quality environment?
We are aiming to get ourselves approved (in the long run).
Other than Epinet, do you bring other clients with you, would this be work
that other members of Paneris could help with?
Can you get to Oxford easily?
We should really meet and drink.
yours
timP
','f','',140,0,0);
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11953,'Fri Feb 12 12:17:15 1999','Re: Re: Re: Application to join up!',3,11952,'
Rachel and Kira,
Dooh! I forgot to copy you on my reply.
please see the message board at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/
I have added you to the known email list, so you can be copied
on future messages.
yours
timP
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11954,'Fri Feb 12 13:53:46 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Application to join up!',3,11953,'
>Rachel and Kira,
>Dooh! I forgot to copy you on my reply.
>please see the message board at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/
>I have added you to the known email list, so you can be copied
>on future messages.
But typed it wrong.
Anyway, by now you will be so bored that you won\'t want to join.
See ya
tim
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11955,'Wed Mar 3 19:24:08 1999','Netscape beats us to it',3,0,'
I was so impressed by Netscape Vitual Office that I
made a <a href=http://www.nvo.com/paneris/">company</a>.
ID: paneris
Pwd: discordian
yours
aye
TimP
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11956,'Wed Mar 3 21:59:01 1999','Re: Netscape beats us to it',1,11955,'
>I was so impressed by Netscape Vitual Office that I
>made a <a href=http://www.nvo.com/paneris/">company</a>.
fucking nice, but we need the source, otherwise it\'s use is limited (apart from as a spec).
something the wasp bloke said: "sometimes oss development is all about chasing taillights".
>ID: paneris
>Pwd: discordian
don\'t work.
TimJ
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11957,'Sun Mar 7 11:28:41 1999','more free money :)',1,0,'
http://www.getanaconda.com/
cheers
timj
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11958,'Wed Mar 10 14:56:30 1999','Hi Linzie',3,0,'
Hi Linzie,
I saw you ad on scot.jobs and have looked at your sites.
We are a cyber collective based at http://www.paneris.co.uk/
and would be interested to know whether you wish to do
freelance work.
Check out our site and let me know.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11959,'Mon Mar 15 9:26:47 1999','check it',1,0,'
http://www.SassyDog.com/
timj
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11960,'Mon Apr 26 15:54:09 1999','Resourcing new Bloomsbury Project: Important',3,0,'
Hi all,
It looks as though we have been invited to tender for
\'Bloomsbury does an Amazon\'.
This is a big project (60K) with an unfeasable timescale
(handover 2nd week in June).
The project is expected to start in two weeks.
Kira, Rachel, WilliamS and WilliamC can you let us know
if you are interested.
I think it is safe to assume the technology will be
JServ/Webmacro/postgres/Datadictionary.
yours
TimP
PS Kira/Rachel do I have a telephone number for you?
Do you want a people page to put it on :)
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11961,'Tue Apr 27 1:48:37 1999','Re: Resourcing new Bloomsbury Project: Important',15,11960,'Posted on behalf of WilliamS by TimP
Exams this term, sorry ...
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11962,'Tue Apr 27 1:49:43 1999','Re: Resourcing new Bloomsbury Project: Important',120,11960,'Posted on behalf of KiraB by TimP
In message <199904261454.PAA08748@www2.web.dircon.net> you wrote:
> It looks as though we have been invited to tender for
> \'Bloomsbury does an Amazon\'.
> Kira, Rachel, WilliamS and WilliamC can you let us know
> if you are interested.
I think I\'m out on this one. Sorry.
> PS Kira/Rachel do I have a telephone number for you?
Possibly not.
kira.
--
This is a tagline.
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11963,'Tue Apr 27 1:50:44 1999','Re: Resourcing new Bloomsbury Project: Important',99,11960,'Posted on behalf of RachelG by TimP
In message <199904261454.PAA08748@www2.web.dircon.net>
multiboard@paneris.co.uk wrote:
> New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/messages/40.shtml
>
> Subject: Resourcing new Bloomsbury Project: Important
> From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
> Hi all,
>
> It looks as though we have been invited to tender for
> \'Bloomsbury does an Amazon\'.
>
> This is a big project (60K) with an unfeasable timescale
> (handover 2nd week in June).
>
> The project is expected to start in two weeks.
>
> Kira, Rachel, WilliamS and WilliamC can you let us know
> if you are interested.
Wow. I am at the moment finishing off a bookshop site. Not getting paid that
much though! :-( Kira\'s definitely a no-no as she\'s busy hacking Linux
kernels for embedded systems which is about as cool as it gets... Although
she says "for my share of 60K, probably". Contrary to her earlier post she is
seriously considering it now. And she\'s got oodles of good experience at
making big unixoid systems work. Especially Linux of course.
HMMM!
My dilemma is that I\'d have to give up my current job... On the other hand,
it\'ll be at *least* more than my current year\'s salary for a month\'s [HARD]
work.
HMMM!
More details please? Like, does this sum include equipment/software/hosting
etc? Or is it just for the programming? Are we bolting onto existing servers
or do we define the server(s)?
> I think it is safe to assume the technology will be
> JServ/Webmacro/postgres/Datadictionary.
For your reference, the bookshop I\'m currently writing is done in JSP
(LiveSoftware\'s JRunPro) and Postgres running on Linux - on a dual Pentium II
350 with 256Mb RAM, two UW SCSI IBM drives rackmount system etc. etc. I
envisage Bloomsbury would be bigger than this small-business project though.
So far we have 150,000-ish books in the database, and Postgres is wonderful,
though a bit slow on wildcarded title and author searches. This has been
commented on by the clients. Anyway it\'ll be going live soon so you\'ll be
able to see. It\'s quite a lot simpler than Amazon, but then it\'s only got me
doing it.
Do Bloomsbury want *everything* by mid-June, or just enough to be selling
books, and ongoing work for more frills and stuff?
--
Rachel
http://www.enlarion.demon.co.uk/
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11964,'Thu Apr 29 8:57:22 1999','Re: Re: Resourcing new Bloomsbury Project: Important',99,11963,'Posted on behalf of Rachel by TimJ
I may repeat points. I\'m working through at random, and I\'m not on my
normal mailer, but on Pine which I hate. :-)
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Tim Joyce wrote:
Yes. For once we weren\'t online, but Kira got a personal call from someone
which went on a while.
> Please take a look at the Mark II document at www.paneris.co.uk/partners/iway/bloomsbury . It sets out our proposed role in the
> project and should answer all your technical questions. the password for the iway area:
OK, looking now...
1.2 million books. Wow. The one I\'m currently doing is only 150,000!
And up against Amazon...
We\'re talking clusters. Well, we can provide a scalable software solution
(Linux/Java/Apache), so if I-way are currently talking about one machine,
they should be able to upgrade fairly painlessly when they discover
otherwise! Any of our software choices will run on a little Linux box up
to a Sun Enty.
How about an Oracle Raw Iron box (itself growable to a cluster) possibly
homebrew (eg: installed as an app on a minimal Linux configuration) and a
growable cluster of Linux boxes around it serving pages? Probably need
some *very* fast ethernet between the boxes. Do we have anyone who can do
Oracle setup?
It would be possible to do version 1 on Postgres and do a one-off move to
Oracle later if required. This might be put to them, but quote for the
effort of migrating the database. I actually don\'t think it\'ll be too
hard. Postgres can export the contents of a database in the form of a
series of SQL statements that recreate the database (sans BLOBs) - this
would do most of the work for us. In fact we\'ll probably end up
developing/prototyping on Postgres anyway and migrating to Oracle as the
site goes live.
> Excellent, you work at home. I think that you should deffinitely _not_ quit your job, but rather free a little time (perhaps 15
> hours per week), and contribute to the project. This will get you involved in the Paneris/Freelance scene. Over time, you can let
> you boss know that you only want to work part time, etc. This means there is no big break, and you won\'t starve :)
All very well, but I think getting a site of equivalent sophistication to
Amazon in one month, with probably only two programmers (probably Kira and
myself as it looks like the other people you mentioned are saying they\'re
too busy) all in 15 hours a week is optimistic. Anyway, I read on...
This isn\'t going to be as hard as Amazon. I could (shh) borrow a lot of
code from the current project - but I probably won\'t as you seem to want a
component/webmacro/templatish sort of approach, and this one\'s done in
plain JSP. (All in the one index.jsp file actually, except the
site-admin/database maintenance section!) Therefore I\'ll be bringing my
fresh experience more than actual reams of existing code. (Though I\'ve got
some really useful stuff in libraries by now for this sort of thing.)
2.2 Web server - Apache installed by iWay - what are these people like to
work with? For JRun/SSL purposes I like it compiled and installed the way
I do it. Having said that, the nice thing about the way I do it is that I
deviate from the distribution defaults by the minimum possible degree. Are
they very competant and can they be reasoned with? We are *not* I hope
sharing space on a server with other sites?
2.3 Database - a database of that size *should* be OK in postgres, but
Oracle should be seriously considered. Performance. Say a dedicated
raw-iron box just for the database. At least one of...
JRun - you\'ll probably need the Unlimited JRunPro license which has no
limitations on concurrent JVMs and sessions etc. That is considerably more
expensive, but if we\'re expecting a *lot* of hits... Oracle is expensive,
but very probably worth it.
*Please* say we\'re running this on some form of Unix or Linux! NT isn\'t
going to handle this. (If they moan, tell them Amazon runs off Unix and
Oracle!)
2.4 Middleware - If I\'m to do it in that timescale I\'d rather not climb
too many new learning curves. I\'d therefore rather use JRunPro at this
stage. I\'ve come to trust the product, and I\'ve found their support to be
excellent. I\'m also not sufficiently familiar with Webmacro and I don\'t
know the Paneris software at all. (I have my own web-based site
administration software.) So far I\'ve tended to use JSPs though generally
they\'re almost all Java code and so really just a convenient way of
authoring servlets - I\'ve mostly ignored writing actual servlets, taglets
and other more specialised stuff.
For instance, the *entire* customer-facing part of the site I\'m now
working on is in a single .jsp file, with the help of a few SS-included
bits of HTML. It\'ll be going live soon so you\'ll be able to see it.
But I see why you want to use WebMacro, so iWay can do basically the
design work semi-independently. I presume we\'ll be producing components in
the form of servlets and macros etc. for them to incorporate as they wish
(eg: using the <servlet> tag). It makes sense. (I think I prefer that way
to templates - they can put together their shtml files exactly how they
like, and include our components, rather than being stuck with our
template assumptions.
We\'d need to have the components needed well specced-out.
What is DataDictionary and what do you mean by business logic?
3.6 Messageboards and Reading Clubs - Why not just mailing lists? I for
one would subscribe to a mailing list (I subscribe to a large number
already) but never an online messageboard. Remember, unlike America,
customers here pay for their online time.
5. Costs
Install of Database/JRun/Webmacro 20 hours
I can install Apache with JRunPro and SSL, and using SuSE Linux, Postgres
as well, in about an hour, with much of that time taken up with compiling.
I don\'t know Webmacro though. For JRunPro and SSL you need Apache
configured a certain way. JRunPro uses DSO so it\'s only a matter of
--enable-rule=SHARED_CORE and --enable-module=so, and then running JRun\'s
Connector wizard on the installed Apache. SSL is more involved (no-one\'s
mentioned it but we are going to need it if we want people to enter in
credit-card details). I\'ve just done this using mod_ssl and it does
involve essentially a patch (albeit an elegant one) on the Apache sources
and makefiles. The art then is making sure Apache is compiled with support
for both SSL *and* JRun.
I think some of your other estimates are over - but then I\'m just coming
to the end of singlehandedly writing a bookshop in about a month and the
shape of it is filling my head at the moment. The bits that are greater
unknowns for me are:
initial database population of 1.2 million books *is* going to take the
computer a long time, but it shouldn\'t be too onerous to program as long
as the source data is clean.
E-commerce back-end integration - to what exactly? This can be a big
bugbear at times. I\'ve integrated to Worldpay before, but it only worked
after I replaced Worldpay\'s client code with my own. I\'m about to find out
about Secure Trading.
Affiliate program - Doesn\'t look hard though, would just need it to be
well-specified.
Management reports and Project Management. I suspect those will be someone
else\'s job anyway! :->
>
> I agree about the timescales, but don\'t think going freelance will tend to make you financially richer.
Well. Now I see it\'s probably going to be max. 20K coming to Paneris, and
if Kira and I do *all* the programming portion of the work, and only the
20% for sales and project-management is hived off that, that does rather
change the outlook. On the plus side, if we can use stuff like WebMacro
(BTW: JRun also has taglets and can do Cold-Fusion emulation), so I-way do
the work of presentation, we might be in the position of basically
providing a server that has a load of bookshop-components they can tie
together how they like, rather than us having to think about site design.
But the reduced amount means that yes, I won\'t be giving up my current job
for it. Which means it gets squeezed in with other stuff. But I still
think it\'s doable in that context.
Oh, I wasn\'t under any delusions about freelancing - which is why I didn\'t
after all go straight to HOOP after leaving Epinet, but went to this other
job! :-)
I\'m just hoping we\'re not underquoting them. Where did that original 60K
figure come from anyway?
--
Rachel
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11965,'Thu Apr 29 8:58:25 1999','Re: Re: Re: Resourcing new Bloomsbury Project: Important',1,11964,'
Rachael,
>1.2 million books. Wow. The one I\'m currently doing is only 150,000!
but is it a significant difference from a sw perspective?
>
>And up against Amazon...
>
>We\'re talking clusters. Well, we can provide a scalable software solution
>(Linux/Java/Apache), so if I-way are currently talking about one machine,
>they should be able to upgrade fairly painlessly when they discover
>otherwise! Any of our software choices will run on a little Linux box up
>to a Sun Enty.
thats what i figure.
>
>How about an Oracle Raw Iron box (itself growable to a cluster) possibly
>homebrew (eg: installed as an app on a minimal Linux configuration) and a
>growable cluster of Linux boxes around it serving pages? Probably need
>some *very* fast ethernet between the boxes. Do we have anyone who can do
>Oracle setup?
>
>It would be possible to do version 1 on Postgres and do a one-off move to
>Oracle later if required. This might be put to them, but quote for the
>effort of migrating the database. I actually don\'t think it\'ll be too
>hard. Postgres can export the contents of a database in the form of a
>series of SQL statements that recreate the database (sans BLOBs) - this
>would do most of the work for us. In fact we\'ll probably end up
>developing/prototyping on Postgres anyway and migrating to Oracle as the
>site goes live.
exatly what i figure. much depends on the traffic that the site generates. we can only really wait and see.
>
>All very well, but I think getting a site of equivalent sophistication to
>Amazon in one month, with probably only two programmers (probably Kira and
>myself as it looks like the other people you mentioned are saying they\'re
>too busy) all in 15 hours a week is optimistic. Anyway, I read on...
well, myles will be more-or-less full time on it as well as your 15 hours (and me 10-15 hours) so I think we can cope).
>
>This isn\'t going to be as hard as Amazon. I could (shh) borrow a lot of
>code from the current project - but I probably won\'t as you seem to want a
>component/webmacro/templatish sort of approach, and this one\'s done in
>plain JSP. (All in the one index.jsp file actually, except the
>site-admin/database maintenance section!) Therefore I\'ll be bringing my
>fresh experience more than actual reams of existing code. (Though I\'ve got
>some really useful stuff in libraries by now for this sort of thing.)
useful libraries are always useful.
>
>2.2 Web server - Apache installed by iWay - what are these people like to
>work with?
they can be tossers, but are getting better. technically they are competant.
>For JRun/SSL purposes I like it compiled and installed the way
>I do it. Having said that, the nice thing about the way I do it is that I
>deviate from the distribution defaults by the minimum possible degree.
I would like to give Jserve a shot. I dont think SSL will be required.
>Are
>they very competant and can they be reasoned with?
they can be tossers, but are getting better. technically they are competant.
>We are *not* I hope
>sharing space on a server with other sites?
no
>
>2.3 Database - a database of that size *should* be OK in postgres, but
>Oracle should be seriously considered. Performance. Say a dedicated
>raw-iron box just for the database. At least one of...
ok, I think that we will recommend a dedicated oracle box from the start. This will please I-way as they can charge twice as much for hosting 2 boxes.
>
>JRun - you\'ll probably need the Unlimited JRunPro license which has no
>limitations on concurrent JVMs and sessions etc. That is considerably more
>expensive, but if we\'re expecting a *lot* of hits... Oracle is expensive,
>but very probably worth it.
We will start with jserve and move to jrun if required. How much is the licence?
>
>*Please* say we\'re running this on some form of Unix or Linux! NT isn\'t
>going to handle this. (If they moan, tell them Amazon runs off Unix and
>Oracle!)
of course
>
>2.4 Middleware - If I\'m to do it in that timescale I\'d rather not climb
>too many new learning curves. I\'d therefore rather use JRunPro at this
>stage. I\'ve come to trust the product, and I\'ve found their support to be
>excellent.
>I\'m also not sufficiently familiar with Webmacro
you\'ll love webmacro, it\'s sooo correct.
>and I don\'t
>know the Paneris software at all. (I have my own web-based site
>administration software.)
don\'t panic, short learning curve.
>So far I\'ve tended to use JSPs though generally
>they\'re almost all Java code and so really just a convenient way of
>authoring servlets - I\'ve mostly ignored writing actual servlets, taglets
>and other more specialised stuff.
>
>For instance, the *entire* customer-facing part of the site I\'m now
>working on is in a single .jsp file, with the help of a few SS-included
>bits of HTML. It\'ll be going live soon so you\'ll be able to see it.
>
>But I see why you want to use WebMacro, so iWay can do basically the
>design work semi-independently. I presume we\'ll be producing components in
>the form of servlets and macros etc. for them to incorporate as they wish
>(eg: using the <servlet> tag). It makes sense. (I think I prefer that way
>to templates - they can put together their shtml files exactly how they
>like, and include our components, rather than being stuck with our
>template assumptions.
No, templates are the way forward. this means that the designers never actually see and java code (and therefor can\'t trash it). webmacro can change your life (it has mine).
>
>We\'d need to have the components needed well specced-out.
sure, but I feel that this is not going to be difficult. we are not breaking new grund with anything here.
>
>What is DataDictionary and what do you mean by business logic?
The datadictionary is some technology that allows for a layer of metadata in your application. You can then control things like the display and validation for fields without writing code. also it allow for a default data admin interface to be build without programming. also it provides default methods on your data objects (write(), delete() etc.). it\'s coming along, but not quite there yet.
>
>3.6 Messageboards and Reading Clubs - Why not just mailing lists? I for
>one would subscribe to a mailing list (I subscribe to a large number
>already) but never an online messageboard. Remember, unlike America,
>customers here pay for their online time.
well, these messageboards will allow you to mail to them (as will the paneris boards shortly). This gives the best of both worlds.
>
>5. Costs
>
>Install of Database/JRun/Webmacro 20 hours
>
>I can install Apache with JRunPro and SSL, and using SuSE Linux, Postgres
>as well, in about an hour, with much of that time taken up with compiling.
>I don\'t know Webmacro though. For JRunPro and SSL you need Apache
>configured a certain way. JRunPro uses DSO so it\'s only a matter of
>--enable-rule=SHARED_CORE and --enable-module=so, and then running JRun\'s
>Connector wizard on the installed Apache. SSL is more involved (no-one\'s
>mentioned it but we are going to need it if we want people to enter in
>credit-card details). I\'ve just done this using mod_ssl and it does
>involve essentially a patch (albeit an elegant one) on the Apache sources
>and makefiles. The art then is making sure Apache is compiled with support
>for both SSL *and* JRun.
credit card details will be entered on a 3rd party credit card processing server. we won\'t get involved.
>
>I think some of your other estimates are over - but then I\'m just coming
>to the end of singlehandedly writing a bookshop in about a month and the
>shape of it is filling my head at the moment. The bits that are greater
>unknowns for me are:
estiamtes are relaxed, i think the customer can take it, and the database is significantly bigger that anything we have done before.
>
>initial database population of 1.2 million books *is* going to take the
>computer a long time, but it shouldn\'t be too onerous to program as long
>as the source data is clean.
i saw a sample t looked ok.
>
>E-commerce back-end integration - to what exactly? This can be a big
>bugbear at times. I\'ve integrated to Worldpay before, but it only worked
>after I replaced Worldpay\'s client code with my own. I\'m about to find out
>about Secure Trading.
I have always found this trivial. Secure Trading are cool.
>
>Affiliate program - Doesn\'t look hard though, would just need it to be
>well-specified.
we have speced this for another project
>
>Management reports and Project Management. I suspect those will be someone
>else\'s job anyway! :->
no, management reports will need to be written
>>
>> I agree about the timescales, but don\'t think going freelance will tend to make you financially richer.
>
>Well. Now I see it\'s probably going to be max. 20K coming to Paneris, and
>if Kira and I do *all* the programming portion of the work, and only the
>20% for sales and project-management is hived off that, that does rather
>change the outlook. On the plus side, if we can use stuff like WebMacro
>(BTW: JRun also has taglets and can do Cold-Fusion emulation),
but is is open source?
>so I-way do
>the work of presentation, we might be in the position of basically
>providing a server that has a load of bookshop-components they can tie
>together how they like, rather than us having to think about site design.
that is exaclty what I intend to do.
>
>But the reduced amount means that yes, I won\'t be giving up my current job
>for it. Which means it gets squeezed in with other stuff. But I still
>think it\'s doable in that context.
with chippy\'s (myles\') help
>
>Oh, I wasn\'t under any delusions about freelancing - which is why I didn\'t
>after all go straight to HOOP after leaving Epinet, but went to this other
>job! :-)
it\'s the best way, but difficult to do overnight.
>
>I\'m just hoping we\'re not underquoting them. Where did that original 60K
>figure come from anyway?
total for project, including hosting, hw, design and build. I think i-way will pitch closer to 50K. It was an initial figure in the air.
Thanks for your willingness to help on this. I feel we have enough people to get this done. Fingers crossed, I hope we get this. We should do, as we are the encombant supplier (we built and maintain www.bloomsbury.com, so they trust us and we have a great relationship). But, it all comes down to money.
If we don\'t get it, I am trying to keep the other job (M$ guys seeing the light) open, so there should be something to do.
look forward to working with you.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11966,'Tue May 4 8:14:22 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Resourcing new Bloomsbury Project: Important',99,11965,'Posted on behalf of Rachel by TimJ
> Reply to this message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/messages/45.shtml
Won\'t. :-) I prefer to use mailing-list semantics. I won\'t go online just to
post one message, and by the time I do go online for another reason, I\'ll
have forgotten what I was going to post.
- relevant to discussion below. :-) Posting to paneris@paneris.org or
whatever should go straight into the board. Personally I never use the web
messageboard.
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Resourcing new Bloomsbury Project: Important
> From: TimJ (timj@hoop.co.uk) (194.112.47.31)
>
> Rachael,
>
> >1.2 million books. Wow. The one I\'m currently doing is only 150,000!
>
> but is it a significant difference from a sw perspective?
Nope, just a performance note. The first version of the import program for my
current project was terribly slow. Hint: Use JDBC PreparedStatement. :-)
Also, trust Postgres\' own caching/performance enhancement tricks, don\'t try
to be clever. :-)
> >For JRun/SSL purposes I like it compiled and installed the way
> >I do it. Having said that, the nice thing about the way I do it is that I
> >deviate from the distribution defaults by the minimum possible degree.
>
> I would like to give Jserve a shot.
Well, if you insist. I think of JRun as being good proven technology though.
When I looked at JServe before it looked like an installation nightmare.
If we\'re sticking to the core Servlet API, it shouldn\'t make any difference,
as long as JServe implements it properly.
> I dont think SSL will be required.
Huh? Oh I see below:
> credit card details will be entered on a 3rd party credit card processing
> server. we won\'t get involved.
Ick. Well, not our problem I suppose.
> > 2.3 Database - a database of that size *should* be OK in postgres, but
> > Oracle should be seriously considered. Performance. Say a dedicated
> > raw-iron box just for the database. At least one of...
>
> ok, I think that we will recommend a dedicated oracle box from the start.
> This will please I-way as they can charge twice as much for hosting 2
> boxes.
I\'m pretty agnostic. Postgres is known to me. I trust it, but Oracle is
acknowledged to be the performance leader. It depends how keen you are on
Open-Source solutions. (Just digging at you about JRun/JServer. :-))
> >JRun - you\'ll probably need the Unlimited JRunPro license which has no
> >limitations on concurrent JVMs and sessions etc. That is considerably more
> >expensive, but if we\'re expecting a *lot* of hits... Oracle is expensive,
> >but very probably worth it.
>
> We will start with jserve and move to jrun if required. How much is the
> licence?
Varies. JRun is free for noncommercial use, but is limited to 1 JVM and 5
concurrent connections. Otherwise functionally identical. JRunPro is a $595
"per processor" and allows up to 5 concurrent JVMs and no limitation on
concurrent connections. JRunPro Unlimited is $1995 per machine, no
limitations on concurrent JVMs or concurrent connections. Hmm. I\'ve not
actually tried to run concurrent JVMs yet, maybe that\'s how to speed up the
current site! Although at the moment we\'ve only got the one-processor license
and it\'s a dual-pentium machine. I\'d want the other processor to be set aside
for Postgres anyway, though I know that\'s a simplistic way of looking at it.
:-)
Oh, it allegedly works with Java 2, though I haven\'t tried that yet as we\'re
a bit behind that game on Linux.
JRunPro also gets you email support, which I\'ve found to be very good on the
several occasions I\'ve used it. In fact, they\'re so fast with updates and
fixes it\'s almost like using Open Source. :-) Usually their answer to when
I\'ve had a problem or found a bug, is to point me to their latest build. Like
recently: A couple of days ago I wrote to them complaining that under JRunPro
build 135 (a couple of weeks old) and Apache it wasn\'t recognising index.jsp
as a default document even though it was all configured to, and the answer
came back yesterday to download build 141, their latest, as this problem was
fixed in build 140. It had also been affecting Netscape Enterprise Server,
but not IIS.
I also like it because it\'s a very clean install. You even get a graphical
installation wizard (if you want it) under Unix as well as Windows. It uses
Apache DSO rather than having to include stuff in the Apache sources; there\'s
even a graphical wizard to set up the connector (all Java/Swing BTW). They\'re
very much a pure 100% Java house. and it shows. When we were at Epinet we
originally bought the NT version, and Kira got it working under Linux in no
time. (The difference between the NT and Unix versions are basically that the
NT version has an Installshield installer (instead of InstallAnywhere on
Linux), includes the JRE, and has a JRUN.EXE for running it as an NT
service. The core Java stuff is all clean and portable.)
> No, templates are the way forward. this means that the designers never
> actually see and java code (and therefor can\'t trash it). webmacro can
> change your life (it has mine).
Presumably you need a template format and processor/parser. Presumably that\'s
what Webmacro is?
> > We\'d need to have the components needed well specced-out.
>
> sure, but I feel that this is not going to be difficult. we are not
> breaking new grund with anything here.
>
> >
> > What is DataDictionary and what do you mean by business logic?
>
> The datadictionary is some technology that allows for a layer of metadata
> in your application. You can then control things like the display and
> validation for fields without writing code. also it allow for a default
> data admin interface to be build without programming. also it provides
> default methods on your data objects (write(), delete() etc.). it\'s coming
> along, but not quite there yet.
Cool. I\'d like to see more.
> > 3.6 Messageboards and Reading Clubs - Why not just mailing lists? I for
> > one would subscribe to a mailing list (I subscribe to a large number
> > already) but never an online messageboard. Remember, unlike America,
> > customers here pay for their online time.
>
> well, these messageboards will allow you to mail to them (as will the
> paneris boards shortly). This gives the best of both worlds.
Good.
> > I think some of your other estimates are over - but then I\'m just coming
> > to the end of singlehandedly writing a bookshop in about a month and the
> > shape of it is filling my head at the moment. The bits that are greater
> > unknowns for me are:
>
> estiamtes are relaxed, i think the customer can take it, and the database
> is significantly bigger that anything we have done before.
Oh yes. :-)
> > E-commerce back-end integration - to what exactly? This can be a big
> > bugbear at times. I\'ve integrated to Worldpay before, but it only worked
> > after I replaced Worldpay\'s client code with my own. I\'m about to find
> > out about Secure Trading.
>
> I have always found this trivial. Secure Trading are cool.
Must get round to it... :-) Strange day yesterday, I used it to more or less
get back to a normal diurnal cycle. Except I woke up at 4am this morning.
Hopefully it\'ll work.
> > (BTW: JRun also has taglets and can do Cold-Fusion emulation),
>
> but is is open source?
JRun is not open source. But then, neither is Oracle. :-) I\'m like Linus:
Fairly agnostic about mixing open source and proprietary to get the best
overall system. Hey, I thought Webmacro was proprietary... What is it, just
servlets? If so, should run on JRun no problem. The core Servlet API (2.2.1)
and JSP spec (0.92) is fully implemented, there are just some extras like an
ASP compatibility layer to help wean off the ASP developers, and taglets etc.
(you can define server-side HTML-type tags that invoke servlets.)
I really like the fact that the JServe and GnuJSP projects exist: At the very
least they\'ll keep LiveSoftware on their toes! I do believe that proprietary
software can have it\'s place. For one thing, it brings new software to
maturity quicker, for the simple reason that the development team can work
full-time on it. Open source projects mature more slowly, but ultimately get
*very* good. Apache is a mature open-source project, I don\'t think JServe and
GnuJSP are.
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
Time to stop. Cat on keyboard. :-)
--
','f','',140,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11967,'Tue May 4 8:36:16 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Resourcing new Bloomsbury Project: Important',1,11966,'
>Won\'t. :-) I prefer to use mailing-list semantics. I won\'t go online just to
>post one message, and by the time I do go online for another reason, I\'ll
>have forgotten what I was going to post.
>- relevant to discussion below. :-) Posting to paneris@paneris.org or
>whatever should go straight into the board. Personally I never use the web
>messageboard.
fair play, timp has alway argued that the messageboards wern\'t used by our customers (and others) because they were not up to it technically. Now we have proof that this is not the only reason.
new messageboards will have mailto symantecs of <id>.<board>.messageboard@paneris.org
where id is the message id if you are posting a follow-up to a message (and therefor need not be set), and board is an identifier for a messageboard (eg "announce")
>> >1.2 million books. Wow. The one I\'m currently doing is only 150,000!
>>
>> but is it a significant difference from a sw perspective?
>Nope, just a performance note. The first version of the import program for my
>current project was terribly slow. Hint: Use JDBC PreparedStatement. :-)
will (and do) do.
>Also, trust Postgres\' own caching/performance enhancement tricks, don\'t try
>to be clever. :-)
umm, we have improved performance of the existing system _significantly_, by caching (in a java static class) our \'lookup\' and system tables. this way, we can just pass references to cached objects arround and never need to worrk about any db overhead (makes programming a lot nicer).
Having said this, i did do all my testing on access, so don\'t really know how coll postgres is.
>> I would like to give Jserve a shot.
>Well, if you insist. I think of JRun as being good proven technology though.
>When I looked at JServe before it looked like an installation nightmare.
don\'t think so (chippy\'s done a couple now)
>If we\'re sticking to the core Servlet API, it shouldn\'t make any difference,
>as long as JServe implements it properly.
we have not had a problem.
>JRunPro also gets you email support, which I\'ve found to be very good on the
>several occasions I\'ve used it.
waht do you mean by email support? does it simply supply an smtp client (we are using sun.net.smtp.SmtpClient) which appears to work.
>> No, templates are the way forward. this means that the designers never
>> actually see and java code (and therefor can\'t trash it). webmacro can
>> change your life (it has mine).
>Presumably you need a template format and processor/parser. Presumably that\'s
>what Webmacro is?
yep
>> The datadictionary is some technology that allows for a layer of metadata
>> in your application. You can then control things like the display and
>> validation for fields without writing code. also it allow for a default
>> data admin interface to be build without programming. also it provides
>> default methods on your data objects (write(), delete() etc.). it\'s coming
>> along, but not quite there yet.
>Cool. I\'d like to see more.
check out a demo of the messageboards at www.paneris.org/finsbury.html
if you want the source, its probably best to get you a cvs account (not sure how to do this, but chippy will sort you out if necessary)
>> > (BTW: JRun also has taglets and can do Cold-Fusion emulation),
>>
>> but is is open source?
>JRun is not open source. But then, neither is Oracle. :-) I\'m like Linus:
>Fairly agnostic about mixing open source and proprietary to get the best
>overall system. Hey, I thought Webmacro was proprietary...
certainly not, wouldn\'t touch it if it was.
> What is it, just
>servlets? If so, should run on JRun no problem. The core Servlet API (2.2.1)
>and JSP spec (0.92) is fully implemented, there are just some extras like an
>ASP compatibility layer to help wean off the ASP developers, and taglets etc.
>(you can define server-side HTML-type tags that invoke servlets.)
won\'t :)
>I really like the fact that the JServe and GnuJSP projects exist: At the very
>least they\'ll keep LiveSoftware on their toes! I do believe that proprietary
>software can have it\'s place. For one thing, it brings new software to
>maturity quicker, for the simple reason that the development team can work
>full-time on it. Open source projects mature more slowly, but ultimately get
>*very* good. Apache is a mature open-source project, I don\'t think JServe and
>GnuJSP are.
webmacro is the only one i\'ve been involved with, and i think the process (and the code) is excellent, thanks mainly to justin who fufills the Linus role. webmacro was useable at v0.70. 1.0 will kick ass. i genuinely think that people will not develop JSP as webmacro is better and easier. It could therefor be _big_.
timj
','f','',140,0,0);
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141,'mylesc','mylesc List',8141,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/mylesc/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/mylesc/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11968,'Wed Mar 3 16:35:57 1999','PPP Healthcare / SKY TV',6,0,'
Big Medical Insurance company (you\'re not supposed to know the name, so don\'t say!)
Required HTML coder for at least one week in London, Richmond, may be ongoing for a few months. With company called The Hub (www.thehub.co.uk) around 150 per day. They do want you to work onsite for a while, but could be remote once she is comforable with the idea.Urgent, preferably starting tomorrow!
Also Graphic Designer for SKY TV website - also urgent.
Phone number 0181 560 9222, speak to Annett.
Daniel Hart
','f','',141,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
142,'timj','timj List',8142,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/timj/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/timj/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11969,'Tue Oct 20 14:05:04 1998','Iglu',6,0,'
Tim, I have seen the Iglu site. Personally, if you want me to suggest ideas, I would do the front page differently, there is just too much cumbersome JavaScript, this can be done so much more economically in Flash, and if we are to have a Flash element on the page, it seems silly not to do the WHOLE page in Flash. Also, it would be potentially difficult to align the elements on the page so that there is consistency across browsers. I can use some JavaScript which would use Flash detection and automatically take the user to the relevant page, giving the option to download Flash if it is intended to be used extensively across the site. If you want me to tow the line and just implement a graphic, I will, but I can offer alternative ideas if you want, and work quickly.
Finally, regarding the animated logo, I have done a quick experiment with the following, and, while a slight cliche, it demonstrates that Flash works well moving across the whole canvas, rather than a little bit of the topleft corner of the page, which really might as well just be an animated GIF as it is. This file is 6.5K - look at it on http://www.lively-arts.co.uk/logo.html
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11970,'Mon Dec 7 9:52:25 1998','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11971,'Mon Dec 7 9:55:50 1998','test again',1,0,'
test
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11972,'Wed Dec 9 12:46:05 1998','test',1,0,'
test
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11973,'Wed Dec 9 13:10:07 1998','testing',1,0,'
Martin,
Can you confirm that you get this.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11974,'Fri Dec 11 11:36:51 1998','Accountant Required (home work)',1,0,'
Hi,
I am looking for an Accountant to check my 97-98 accounts (will be supplied
in Quicken for Windows format). The accounts are in good order and just
need an accountant to go over them. I was self-employed in 97-98.
This year I am trading as a Limited company, and will there for need a
higher level of service.
I am looking from someone who I can work well with, but is not going to
charge me £1,000 pa (quote from my current accountant). I am not adverse to
paying a reasonable hourly rate for this work.
If you can help (or know someone who can), please get in touch.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11975,'Fri Dec 11 11:38:01 1998','Re: Accountant Required (home work)',112,11974,'Posted on behalf of Martin by TimJ
Is location an issue?
Might be able to assist. Might also use some advice on my site
www.officereqs.demon.co.uk/tiano
Martin Tiano
Martin Tiano & Co.
3 The Shrubberies
George Lane
South Woodford
London E18 1BD
0181 491 1100
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11976,'Fri Dec 11 11:39:23 1998','1997/98 Accounts',112,0,'Posted on behalf of Martin by TimJ
Dear Tim,
Further to our recent communications, I have now had the opportunity to
take a good look at the records that you wired me, and would make the
following enquiries. Please accept my apologies if they come across as
the "Spanish Inquisition".
GENERAL
1. What date did you commence and cease the self employed business? Is
1 May 1997 to 31 March 1998 correct?
2. What was the date of incorporation of Hoop Limited?
PROFIT AND LOSS ACCOUNT
3. Why did you pay an accountant £293.75? Is it for you or the
formation of Hoop Limited?
4. How is it possible to incur £15.00 bank charged with the Alliance &
Leicester by cash? What actually is this expense?
5. Please confirm that all books are business related - reference books
etc.
6. Is the account "coffee" for canteen as a whole?
7. Could you let me have sight of the following invoices within
"Computer Kit - Hardware"
19 June 1997 Steve Leitch - laptop 600.00
23 June 1997 Pro-Com Electronics 235.00
30 July1997 Orpheus Electronics 315.88
20 September 1997 Shasonic Megastore 279.95
22 September 1997 Advanced Publishing 158.00
3 January 1998 RAM Computers 868.34
Did you introduce any previously purchased and personally owned
"kit" into the business at inception? If so, please let me have
details.
8. Was all this "kit" transferred into Hoop Limited? What value should
it be withdrawn from the business at? Have you given any thought to
the tax implications thereon?
9. How much of the account "dining" is subsistence (necessary costs of
eating being at least five miles from home / office) ? Is any of it
entertaining?
10. Please confirm that the £64.50 freight cost was business related.
11. £501.16 insurance at £45.56 per month. What is insured?
12. Internet telephone: Why does Cable and Wirelesss only run from
September 1997 to March 1998? Were there no costs beforehand?
13. Sundries £77.85 - What relevance is Moss Bros and dry cleaning?
14. Where was your office at the time? Does the rent of £2,163.37
represent the rent of an office or private accommodation? Are all
the small "office" costs totalling £176.82 for private
accommodation. Could an argument be formulated for them to be deemed
relevant for the office proportion (if applicable)?
15. Within Telephone of £899.70, is Videotron the forerunner to Cable &
Wireless? Why does mobile costs only commence in September 1997? Did
you have a mobile beforehand?
16. I note that most of the travel is in and around London. Were you not
based in Poole at the time? Were there no costs from Poole to
London?
17. Is the electricity costs for office / home / business?
18. Is there an argument for the TV license fee being a business
expense?
19. Water Rates - Why business?
20. Work Expense - What is this?
BALANCE SHEET
21. Is the debtor on accounts receivable of £189.50 collectable? Has it
been received? Who is it?
22. Are the books reconciled with the business bank account? Please let
me have a copy of the final statement.
23. What is the date of incorporation of Hoop Limited? Did it start
trading on 1 April 1998?
GENERAL MATTERS
Without having more data at the outset, it is difficult to get a feel
for what was happening during the period; please accept my apologies if
the answers to some of my queries are repetitive.
Does the Inland Revenue know you exist as a self employed individual?
Are you comfortable in completing your own self assessment tax return.
Are you happy to calculate you own tax liability? I only ask as usually,
this is one of the major reasons for being employed to assist in similar
cases?
Please be assured that I am on your side should you wish me to
contribute on these matters.
Look forward to hearing from you soon so as that these accounts can be
put to bed.
Regards,
Martin
Martin Tiano & Co.
3 The Shrubberies
George Lane
South Woodford
London E18 1BD
0181 491 1100
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11977,'Fri Dec 11 11:41:43 1998','Re: 1997/98 Accounts',1,11976,'
Martin,
Thanks loads for working through this. I think I can answer all your
questions without too much trouble, but before we carry on, perhaps you
could estimate how much it will cost to sort out the accounts and complete
the tax return?
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11978,'Fri Dec 11 11:43:13 1998','Re: Re: 1997/98 Accounts',112,11977,'Posted on behalf of Martin by TimJ
Hi Tim,
Do I detect that you have had a bad experience with an accountant in the
past?
As we discussed on the telephone, my fees are modest. Not knowing how
complicated you other income / allowances streams are, it is rather like
asking how long is a piece of string! However, seeing you asked, I will
answer the question as honestly as I possibly can and hope that I am not
putting both feet in it!
On the basis that the answers that you provide, do not throw up any
major problems, I would anticipate for accounts only my invoice to be
£175.00 plus VAT. If we throw in a not too complicated Income Tax
Return, this would rise to approximately £250.00 plus VAT.
Whilst writing, I would ask whether you have made arrangements regarding
Hoop Limited. Did you pay £250.00 plus VAT for the formation of the
company (the accounting cost of £293.75). To illustrate matters, I
usually charge clients for a ready made company with up to £1,000
authorised share capital £150.00 plus VAT.
Please be assured, that I am not in for a major killing from you (I too
know how hard it can be at times to earn!) I am more interested in you
recommending me to all the other Paneris Community members.
Please rest assured. If you have had a bad experience with an accountant
in the past, please let me know the facts so as that I can try and put
your mind at rest. You can always catch me by telephone if it is easier:
Office 0181 491 1100 - sometimes a bugger to get me there
Mobile 0973 285390
Martin
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11979,'Fri Dec 11 11:45:01 1998','Re: Re: Re: 1997/98 Accounts',1,11978,'
Martin,
Thanks loads for your time. Happily, I think we can do business together
and would like to take you on to to my accounts for 1997/98.
>Do I detect that you have had a bad experience with an accountant in the
>past?
No, not really. I approached Nieman Walters in March this year because I
needed to set up HOOP ltd. I just feel that they are not wired enough for
me to work with. Also I think I am paying far too much money (£1000) for
what I consider to be a relatively small job. Also he couldn\'t cope with
quicken.
>
>As we discussed on the telephone, my fees are modest. Not knowing how
>complicated you other income / allowances streams are, it is rather like
>asking how long is a piece of string!
My other incomes are non existent (I have no shares or savings).
>However, seeing you asked, I will
>answer the question as honestly as I possibly can and hope that I am not
>putting both feet in it!
>
>On the basis that the answers that you provide, do not throw up any
>major problems, I would anticipate for accounts only my invoice to be
>£175.00 plus VAT. If we throw in a not too complicated Income Tax
>Return, this would rise to approximately £250.00 plus VAT.
This sounds brilliant. I really do want to pay you a sensible amount, so if
you do more work than anticipated, please let me know. I don\'t want to
squeeze your profits. I know that customers of mine that whinge about money
get a lower quality service from me (not necessarily deliberately, but it
does work on your subconscious).
>
>Whilst writing, I would ask whether you have made arrangements regarding
>Hoop Limited. Did you pay £250.00 plus VAT for the formation of the
>company (the accounting cost of £293.75).
This is correct.
>To illustrate matters, I
>usually charge clients for a ready made company with up to £1,000
>authorised share capital £150.00 plus VAT.
Cool.
>
>Please be assured, that I am not in for a major killing from you (I too
>know how hard it can be at times to earn!) I am more interested in you
>recommending me to all the other Paneris Community members.
This last line won you the business. I will introduce you to the community,
and the system. If you are happy to, I will encourage you to use the
systems we have put in place - things like time recording, messaging and
invoicing. This will make you the natural choice for any Paneris member
looking for an accountant.
>
>Please rest assured. If you have had a bad experience with an accountant
>in the past, please let me know the facts so as that I can try and put
>your mind at rest. You can always catch me by telephone if it is easier:
It really wasn\'t that bad, we just didn\'t fit.
Anyway, on to business.
>>>
>>>Further to our recent communications, I have now had the opportunity to
>>>take a good look at the records that you wired me, and would make the
>>>following enquiries. Please accept my apologies if they come across as
>>>the "Spanish Inquisition".
no stress, I did all of the accounts without any training, or even reading
any books (or help files), so there are going to be problems.
>>>
>>>GENERAL
>>>
>>> 1. What date did you commence and cease the self employed business? Is
>>> 1 May 1997 to 31 March 1998 correct?
yes
>>>
>>> 2. What was the date of incorporation of Hoop Limited?
01/04/1998
>>>
>>>PROFIT AND LOSS ACCOUNT
>>>
>>> 3. Why did you pay an accountant £293.75? Is it for you or the
>>> formation of Hoop Limited?
yes
>>>
>>> 4. How is it possible to incur £15.00 bank charged with the Alliance &
>>> Leicester by cash? What actually is this expense?
this was a charge for clearing a cheque quickly through a bank account for
windows and sql programmers. I worked for winSQL in 96/97, and I had to
clear the cheque quickly in order to get paid.
I have the paperwork
>>>
>>> 5. Please confirm that all books are business related - reference books
>>> etc.
absolutely
>>>
>>> 6. Is the account "coffee" for canteen as a whole?
yes, I make a charge of £1 per working day (average 22 per month) to cover
coffee.
>>>
>>> 7. Could you let me have sight of the following invoices within
>>> "Computer Kit - Hardware"
>>>
>>> 19 June 1997 Steve Leitch - laptop 600.00
no, this was brought from a friend, and I have no invoice. I do have a
cheque stub though. I may be able to get an invoice if it is required. I
can assure you that this situation is a definite exception, and well
spotted by you (how do you do it?) I don\'t think that there is another
transaction without full supporting paperwork.
>>> 23 June 1997 Pro-Com Electronics 235.00
>>> 30 July1997 Orpheus Electronics 315.88
>>> 20 September 1997 Shasonic Megastore 279.95
>>> 22 September 1997 Advanced Publishing 158.00
>>> 3 January 1998 RAM Computers 868.34
I have all the rest. what does \'let me have sight of" mean? do you want me
to put them in the post. Why have you selected these transactions? Is it a
"spot check", or are they suspicious?
>>>
>>> Did you introduce any previously purchased and personally owned
>>> "kit" into the business at inception? If so, please let me have
>>> details.
yes. 2 PCs and a desk. total value approx. £5000 back then.
>>>
>>> 8. Was all this "kit" transferred into Hoop Limited?
yes
>What value should
>>> it be withdrawn from the business at?
about £2500
>>> Have you given any thought to
>>> the tax implications thereon?
none
>>>
>>> 9. How much of the account "dining" is subsistence (necessary costs of
>>> eating being at least five miles from home / office) ?
all
>>>Is any of it
>>> entertaining?
is entertaining is buying coffee / food for a customer / partner / supplier?
if so yes.
>>>
>>>10. Please confirm that the £64.50 freight cost was business related.
yes, delivery of disks to NZ.
>>>
>>>11. £501.16 insurance at £45.56 per month. What is insured?
This is a policy offered by Link Insurance Services called Business Home
Insurance, designed for people who work at home, so covers my computers and
things like "Employers Liability"
>>>
>>>12. Internet telephone: Why does Cable and Wireless only run from
>>> September 1997 to March 1998? Were there no costs beforehand?
Videotron was brought by C&W in Sept 1997. much to my disgust.
>>>
>>>13. Sundries £77.85 - What relevance is Moss Bros and dry cleaning?
cleaning of suit at A to Z, moss bros is the hire of a wedding suit.
probably not a business expense now I think about it.
>>>
>>>14. Where was your office at the time?
in out flat in Brixton
>>>Does the rent of £2,163.37
>>> represent the rent of an office or private accommodation?
it is 1/3 or the rent of a 2 bedroom flat (the office was in one of the
bedrooms).
>>>Are all
>>> the small "office" costs totalling £176.82 for private
>>> accommodation. Could an argument be formulated for them to be deemed
>>> relevant for the office proportion (if applicable)?
these are cost specifically for items for the office (lamps, chairs,
bookshelves, pens etc).
>>>
>>>15. Within Telephone of £899.70, is Videotron the forerunner to Cable &
>>> Wireless?
yes
>>>Why does mobile costs only commence in September 1997? Did
>>> you have a mobile beforehand?
no
>>>
>>>16. I note that most of the travel is in and around London. Were you not
>>> based in Poole at the time? Were there no costs from Poole to
>>> London?
no we only moved to Poole in June 1998, during 1997/98 we were in Brixton,
south London.
>>>
>>>17. Is the electricity costs for office / home / business?
this is 1/3 of the electricity bill for the flat (we had an electricity key)
>>>
>>>18. Is there an argument for the TV license fee being a business
>>> expense?
yes, I use the tv for video editing.
>>>
>>>19. Water Rates - Why business?
again 1/3 of the rates were charged to the business.
>>>
>>>20. Work Expense - What is this?
this for the Riveria hotel, we stayed there when visiting Bournemouth on a
combined business / house buying trip.
>>>
>>>BALANCE SHEET
>>>
>>>21. Is the debtor on accounts receivable of £189.50 collectable?
no
>>Has it
>>> been received?
no
Who is it?
The Atlantic Council. They paid me for 1 hour, when I did about 5 hours
work. They disputed the agreement (said 4 of the hours were non
chargeable). they kept saying that when the projected started (when they
got funding), I could include the 4 hours in the project budget. the
project has not materialised, and I don\'t expect it to. I chased hard, but
got nowhere. I keep meaning to register them with "nasty people who don\'t
pay" lists online, but haven\'t found the time.
>>>
>>>22. Are the books reconciled with the business bank account?
yes
>>> Please let
>>> me have a copy of the final statement.
ok, I will put this in the post with the other invoices.
>>>
>>>23. What is the date of incorporation of Hoop Limited? Did it start
>>> trading on 1 April 1998?
yes
>>>
>>>GENERAL MATTERS
>>>
>>>Without having more data at the outset, it is difficult to get a feel
>>>for what was happening during the period; please accept my apologies if
>>>the answers to some of my queries are repetitive.
>>>
>>>Does the Inland Revenue know you exist as a self employed individual?
yes, I have paid my NI
>>>Are you comfortable in completing your own self assessment tax return.
>>>Are you happy to calculate you own tax liability? I only ask as usually,
>>>this is one of the major reasons for being employed to assist in similar
>>>cases?
I would like you to do it.
>>>
>>>Please be assured that I am on your side should you wish me to
>>>contribute on these matters.
no stress, thanks for your help. when do you want to get paid? I usually
charge 25% up front, 25% half way through and 50% on completion.
>>>
>>>Look forward to hearing from you soon so as that these accounts can be
>>>put to bed.
would be nice
I would like to introduce you to the paneris systems, by inviting further
discussion to take place on the messageboards. I can set up a HOOP
accountancy area at http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/hoop/accountant .
Let me know if you want to try this.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11980,'Fri Dec 11 11:50:29 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: 1997/98 Accounts',1,11979,'
Martin,
Paperwork is in the post.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11981,'Tue Dec 15 8:55:00 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1997/98 Accounts',112,11980,'Posted on behalf of Martin by TimJ
Alas more questions.
BUSINESS FIRST
Your comments about the "Computer Kit - Hardware" are noted. The reason
for wanting to look at the invoices is because most of this is probably
of a capital nature and have to be taken through fixed assets. However,
if it can be taken to revenue immediately, all the better, hence my
wanting to see the invoices.
On the basis that you introduced £5,000.00 of kit at inception and have
bought another £3,086.62 during the eleven months, would it have
depreciated that much, that quickly to £2,500?
The only question is whether you get the tax relief at this point or in
Hoop Limited a little later. I am aware of the pace of change within the
field; however, I am a little concerned as to whether the Inland Revenue
would swallow such a claim.
What was the situation with your car? Please let me have details of the
car; make, model, registration number and approximate value at 1 May
1997 and 31 March 1998. We may as well get it into the business and
claim some tax relief on its depreciation.
Are the motor expenses within the records the whole amount or just a
proportion?
Could you let me have full details of the amounts expended on:
Graphic Design £1,012.87
Programming £ 426.25
Web Design £1,647.50
The reason for this is that there is a reasonable probability that the
Inland Revenue will ask for named and addresses (one of their ways of
checking on the sub - contractor)!
Is the rent charge (and the utilities costs) in the books the whole
amount or the third? How is the one third calculated in your mind?
Before I finish looking for avenues to depress your income to reduce the
tax liabilities flowing therefrom, is it possible that you may be
looking in the not too distant future to show higher earnings (eg.
mortgage application) which might alter the tactics in this case?
PERSONAL
Apologies for the intrusive nature of these; just need the details for
background and tax matters.
Full Name :
Date of Birth :
National Insurance Number :
Residential Address :
Owned / Rented :
Mortgaged :
Mortgage Details (lender / amount) :
MIRAS? :
Telephone Numbers
Business Phone :01202 251816
Nusiness Fax :
Mobile :
Home :
Marital Status :
Children (names and dates of birth
if applicable) :
Details of any pension arrangements :
PERSONAL TAXATION
Do you have a self assessment Income Tax Return to complete? If so,
please forward it for completion.
What did you do from 6 April 1997 to 30 April 1997?
Did you work or claim unemployment benefit? If so, do you have your P45
or a copy? I will require the details from this.
Did you claim any other Social Security Benefits during the tax year
ended 5 April 1998?
Please let me have details of any income producing accounts that you may
have with banks or building societies (however small or insignificant)
they may be.
Is there any other information that you think may be relevant for the
completion of your income tax affairs?
Sorry for the Spanish Inquisition again!
FEES
These are usually billed when I send the accounts and tax returns out
for signature.
MESSAGEBOARD
I would be delighted to try the discussion board route.
Regards
Martin
Martin Tiano & Co.
Chartered Accountants
3 The Shrubberies
George Lane
South Woodford
London E18 1BD
0181 491 1100
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11982,'Tue Dec 15 9:09:43 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1997/98 Accounts',1,11981,'
Martin,
>
>On the basis that you introduced £5,000.00 of kit at inception and have
>bought another £3,086.62 during the eleven months, would it have
>depreciated that much, that quickly to £2,500?
No, I was only considering the original kit, not the bits purchased through the year. I think the total value of the kit would be about £5000 at the end of the year.
>
>The only question is whether you get the tax relief at this point or in
>Hoop Limited a little later. I am aware of the pace of change within the
>field; however, I am a little concerned as to whether the Inland Revenue
>would swallow such a claim.
They must have experience of this as well, we all us computers.
>
>What was the situation with your car? Please let me have details of the
>car; make, model, registration number and approximate value at 1 May
>1997 and 31 March 1998. We may as well get it into the business and
>claim some tax relief on its depreciation.
Pergeot 205 XLD, H729 JSM
Reasonable valuations are probably £3,000 at the beginning of the year and £2,000 at the end.
>
>Are the motor expenses within the records the whole amount or just a
>proportion?
Whole amount
>
>Could you let me have full details of the amounts expended on:
>
>Graphic Design £1,012.87
>Programming £ 426.25
>Web Design £1,647.50
In the post.
>
>The reason for this is that there is a reasonable probability that the
>Inland Revenue will ask for named and addresses (one of their ways of
>checking on the sub - contractor)!
cool
>
>Is the rent charge (and the utilities costs) in the books the whole
>amount or the third? How is the one third calculated in your mind?
all 1/3. 1/3 is calculated by dividing by 3.
>
>Before I finish looking for avenues to depress your income to reduce the
>tax liabilities flowing therefrom, is it possible that you may be
>looking in the not too distant future to show higher earnings (eg.
>mortgage application) which might alter the tactics in this case?
no
>
>PERSONAL
>
>Apologies for the intrusive nature of these; just need the details for
>background and tax matters.
>
>Full Name :Timothy Thomas Joyce
>
>Date of Birth :18/07/1970
>
>National Insurance Number :NW190451A
>
>Residential Address :68 Sandbanks Rd, Poole, Dorset, BH14 8BY
>
>
>
>Owned / Rented :owned
>
>Mortgaged :yes
>
>Mortgage Details (lender / amount) :Barclays, £79,000
>
>MIRAS? :yes
>
>Telephone Numbers
>Business Phone :01202 251816
>Nusiness Fax :n/a
>Mobile :07050109546
>Home :01202 251816
>
>Marital Status :single
>
>Children (names and dates of birth
> if applicable) :Thea, 17/11/1997
>
>Details of any pension arrangements :I pay £100 per mont to skandia life. I would like to top this up (if i have the money)
>
>
>PERSONAL TAXATION
>
>Do you have a self assessment Income Tax Return to complete? If so,
>please forward it for completion.
done
>
>What did you do from 6 April 1997 to 30 April 1997?
until 31/04/1997 I was at lloyds register of shipping in the city. I then spent the rest of the year messing about n the internet, and did some jobs for cash. Basically i just messed about.
>
>Did you work or claim unemployment benefit? If so, do you have your P45
>or a copy? I will require the details from this.
no bennefit. i did work, but can\'t find the p45.
>
>Did you claim any other Social Security Benefits during the tax year
>ended 5 April 1998?
no
>
>Please let me have details of any income producing accounts that you may
>have with banks or building societies (however small or insignificant)
>they may be.
none for 1997-98
>
>Is there any other information that you think may be relevant for the
>completion of your income tax affairs?
no
>
>Sorry for the Spanish Inquisition again!
>
>FEES
>
>These are usually billed when I send the accounts and tax returns out
>for signature.
fine
>
>MESSAGEBOARD
>
>I would be delighted to try the discussion board route.
ok, we\'re using it!
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11983,'Wed Dec 16 8:50:54 1998','Re: Accountant Required (home work)',27,11974,'Posted on behalf of Mark Miller by TimJ
I would be happy to review the numbers in the accounts and ensure that all
proper formats and disclosures are applied. My fee would be nominal if at
all. My only interest would be to develope an interest in your business
with a view to ensuring I have a foothold in what may turn out to be a
lucrative future opportunity. From this intial involvement I may well be
able to offer further ad hoc advice concerning financial, organisational and
stratgic matters. I would however adivise that I am no expert in personal
or corporate tax issues and, I will research this, I think you may have to
have a registered auditor to sign the accounts, I am not such a person. The
fee quoted of £1,000 seems rediculous so I would suggest that if you do need
a signature then we prepare top notch accounts and supporting docs and then
we could negotiate a much lower fee, prehaps in the region of £200 would be
more reasonable.
Most importantly, when is your year end for accounts purposes ?
Hope Jenny and Thea are well, pass on my regards
Cheers
Windy
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11984,'Wed Dec 16 8:51:58 1998','Re: Re: Accountant Required (home work)',1,11983,'
Windy,
Cheers mate, do you have experience of Quicken?
If not, I will give you a copy and my accounts, and you can have a play.
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11985,'Wed Dec 16 8:52:25 1998','Re: Re: Re: Accountant Required (home work)',27,11984,'Posted on behalf of Windy by TimJ
No experience of Quicken but have of similar packages. My modem is too slow
to receive software so please send it via a disk in the post or to Fran\'s
e-mail. Fran\'s address is 106235.1777@compuserve.com
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11986,'Wed Dec 16 8:53:56 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1997/98 Accounts',1,11982,'
Thanks for today\'s Email. I can complete your accounts with the info
that I have.
PERSONAL TAXATION
However, to calculate your tax liabilities, I require:
1. If you do not have the P45, I require details of:
(a) Amount Earned :
(b) Tax paid :
(c) Full name and address of employer :
(d) One word job description :
(e) Date of leaving : 30 April 1997
This is not optional; it is a requirement of self assessment.
2. Please confirm whether Thea lives with you. Children must reside with
the parent(s) in order to claim additional personal allowance.
3. Please confirm that you paid £100.00 per month for the whole year
into your Skandia Life Pension.
This is the last of the queries. Promise!!
OTHER MATTERS
4. Who is:
(a) mark@windymiller.demon.co.uk
and
(b) lurker@paneris.co.uk
I only ask as they came up on the header on the receipt of
yesterday\'s Email.
5. Should I be Emailing you to
tim@hoop.co.uk
or
multiboard@paneris.co.uk
or
doesn\'t it matter?
Cheers.
Martin Tiano
Martin Tiano & Co.
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11987,'Wed Dec 16 9:03:02 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1997/98 Accounts',1,11986,'
Martin,
>
>PERSONAL TAXATION
>
>However, to calculate your tax liabilities, I require:
>
>1. If you do not have the P45, I require details of:
>
> (a) Amount Earned :
> (b) Tax paid :
> (c) Full name and address of employer :
> (d) One word job description :
> (e) Date of leaving : 30 April 1997
>
> This is not optional; it is a requirement of self assessment.
I think I included my 1996/97 self assessment form with the bits I sent
through. Does this have what you are after on it?
Apologies:
I actually left Lloyds at the end of April 1996. Does this mean we no
longer need to find these bits?
>
>2. Please confirm whether Thea lives with you. Children must reside with
> the parent(s) in order to claim additional personal allowance.
confirmed
>
>3. Please confirm that you paid £100.00 per month for the whole year
> into your Skandia Life Pension.
I only started paying on 03/04/1998 and made only one payment in the year.
I would like to top up this amount, and have been advised that I can do so.
This will presumably effect the tax calculation. I sort of need to know how
much tax I need to pay before I can work out how much pension I can save.
>
>This is the last of the queries. Promise!!
>
>OTHER MATTERS
>
>4. Who is:
>
> (a) mark@windymiller.demon.co.uk
Mark is a friend of mine, who does some accountancy thinggy for some
multinational thinggy. He said he\'d help out, but his skills are simply not
appropriate for me. Anyway, he has asked to be kept informed, so I am doing
so. I have posted relevant correspondence on the messageboard.
> and
> (b) lurker@paneris.co.uk
this sends copies of the correspondence to interested parties in the Paneris
community.
Sorry I didn\'t explain these earlier.
>
>5. Should I be Emailing you to
>
> tim@hoop.co.uk
> or
> multiboard@paneris.co.uk
> or
> doesn\'t it matter?
you should infact be using the messageboard - go to
www.paneris.co.uk/people/timj and click on "messages" at the top. You are
then able to read all the correspondence and reply to postings.
I am currently rewriting the messageboard system so that you will be able to
send email to it, but alas for now you have to post from the web site.
Thanks for all your hard work.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11988,'Thu Jan 14 8:09:34 1999','31 January 1999 Deadline',112,0,'Posted on behalf of Martin by TimJ
It is now nearly a month since I sent you your accounts and tax return
and the 31 January deadline looms closer.
Please give this your immediate attention.
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11989,'Thu Jan 14 9:11:15 1999','Re: 31 January 1999 Deadline',1,11988,'
>It is now nearly a month since I sent you your accounts and tax return
>and the 31 January deadline looms closer.
Thanks Martin, I have had much on (including xmas). Anyway, couple of points:
1) Can you send me the amended quicken files, so thas I have an up-to-date electronic copy to refer to.
2) The amount (5,497.59) seems an awful lot to me. I am not suggesting it is incorrect, just that it is bigger than I had hoped. Is there any way of reducing this amount. What do I need to do to ensure that the bill for next year is less?
3) I don\'t quite have the money to pay the bill, but this sould be through in a couple of days. I will send everything on to you as soon as I can.
We need to talk about HOOP Ltd (esp PAYE), although I am coping confidently with the VAT.
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11990,'Tue Jan 19 16:32:32 1999','Re: Re: 31 January 1999 Deadline',112,11989,'Posted on behalf of Tiano by TimP
Hi Tim, Martin,
I guess Martin just hit reply and this came to me.
Anyway, it certainly is reminding me to worry.
yours
timP
(multiboard@paneris:)
In message <199901140911.JAA25371@www2.dircon.co.uk>,
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes
>New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/timj/messages/21.shtml
>
>Subject: Re: 31 January 1999 Deadline
>From: TimJ (timj@hoop.co.uk) (194.112.47.31)
>
>>It is now nearly a month since I sent you your accounts and tax return
>>and the 31 January deadline looms closer.
>
>Thanks Martin, I have had much on (including xmas). Anyway, couple of points:
Sorry for the delay - have had to work at home the last couple of days
due to wife with flu.
>1) Can you send me the amended quicken files, so thas I have an up-to-date
>electronic copy to refer to.
I have not amended the quicken files but can do so quite easily - I will
forward them to you at some point in the next few days.
>2) The amount (5,497.59) seems an awful lot to me. I am not suggesting it is
>incorrect, just that it is bigger than I had hoped. Is there any way of
>reducing this amount. What do I need to do to ensure that the bill for next
>year is less?
You touch on several issues here:
a) Next year as a limited company the taxation issues are somewhat more
complex. There is the decision between taking salary and dividends which
leads to differing effective rates of tax.
b) Unfortunately, the one of the two certainties of life kicks in here.
Obviously, the more you earn the more tax you pay; the calculation comes
out at an effective rate of 23% which including national insurance is
not that high.
The most obvious tax tool is that of pension payments which are still
wholly allowable at higher rates of tax. I note that you started a
policy in March 1998 at £100 per month. We can carry back your 1998/99
premiums thus reducing your 1997/98 liability. As an employee, it should
actually be paid net of basic rate tax which you should contact your
pension provider about.
In terms of expenses, I think that my succession of Emails touched on
the types of expenses you could claim for. We brought in the car which
will have made some appreciable difference.
You can perhaps try to think a little more laterally when spending money
in places where perhaps with a slightly differently worded receipt, one
could claim it a business expense. When you buy Xmas pressies, make sure
they could be of use in the business. These a just a few ideas to get
you going; please run obscure ones by me first though please.
>
>3) I don\'t quite have the money to pay the bill, but this sould be through in a
>couple of days. I will send everything on to you as soon as I can.
Interest will be charged immediately from 1 February 1999. You will have
received a red warning letter in the last few days reminding you that
your return is outstanding. On the bottom is a payslip; if you want to
minimise the interest, pay as much as you can in time.
>
>We need to talk about HOOP Ltd (esp PAYE), although I am coping confidently with
>the VAT.
Yes.
As a limited company, we are dealing with a completely different animal.
>
>
>Brought to you by http://www.paneris.co.uk/.
The acceptable excuses for late filing do not go much further that death
- if you have not already, please get the papers back to me immediately.
Happy new year.
Martin Tiano
Martin Tiano & Co.
Office Requirements
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11991,'Fri Jan 22 17:19:19 1999','Re: Re: Re: 31 January 1999 Deadline',1,11990,'
Martin,
>a) Next year as a limited company the taxation issues are somewhat more
>complex. There is the decision between taking salary and dividends which
>leads to differing effective rates of tax.
I will send you this year\'s files soon, as I need to get this sorted.
>The most obvious tax tool is that of pension payments which are still
>wholly allowable at higher rates of tax. I note that you started a
>policy in March 1998 at £100 per month. We can carry back your 1998/99
>premiums thus reducing your 1997/98 liability. As an employee, it should
>actually be paid net of basic rate tax which you should contact your
>pension provider about.
I was planning to do some of this until I realised how skint I was. I don\'t imagine I will max out my pension this year, so we can top it up this year instead.
>You can perhaps try to think a little more laterally when spending money
>in places where perhaps with a slightly differently worded receipt, one
>could claim it a business expense. When you buy Xmas pressies, make sure
>they could be of use in the business. These a just a few ideas to get
>you going; please run obscure ones by me first though please.
I do as much as I can. I will try harder.
>Interest will be charged immediately from 1 February 1999. You will have
>received a red warning letter in the last few days reminding you that
>your return is outstanding. On the bottom is a payslip; if you want to
>minimise the interest, pay as much as you can in time.
I should be able to send the full amount next week. Do i also send this to you?
Cheers
Tim
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11992,'Tue Feb 2 17:51:10 1999','mileage',1,0,'
Martin,
What rate per mile should I use to calcualte mileage expences. (Pergeot 205 1.9 Diesel)
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11993,'Tue Feb 2 23:25:35 1999','Re: mileage',112,11992,'
>Martin,
>What rate per mile should I use to calcualte mileage expences. (Pergeot 205 1.9 Diesel)
>Cheers
>TimJ
Hi Tim
First 4000 miles = 45p
Thereafter = 25p
This is based on tax year 1998/99 and is per tax year.
Hope this helps
Martin
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11994,'Wed Feb 10 22:27:22 1999','hoop sole trader account',1,0,'
Hi Martin,
can I now close my hoop sole trader bank account?
do I need to do anything else to "wind myself up?"
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11995,'Sat Feb 20 11:49:16 1999','hoop ltd',1,0,'
martin,
we need to start sorting out hoop ltd. how would you like to approach this?
shall i start by sending you the accounts so far. perhaps you can then quote for sorting it out?
i realise i need to do paye, is there an addon available for quicken? i used to work for a payroll company, so should be able to get hold of their product, it\'s just designed to handle 10000 employees, not 1, so it might be a bit cumbersom. otoh, i do know it backwards.
timJ
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11996,'Sat Feb 20 12:20:09 1999','adopt an mp',1,0,'
I have, and i think we all should (check out my paneris page)
timJ
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11997,'Sun Mar 7 14:07:39 1999','Re: hoop ltd',1,11995,'
Hi Tim,
Apologies for the delay - I have been on vacation and only got back
Friday afternoon.
To answer you questions:
>Subject: hoop ltd
>From: TimJ (timj@hoop.co.uk) (194.112.47.31)
>
>martin,
>
>we need to start sorting out hoop ltd.
Yes.
> how would you like to approach this?
The only considerations at this moment in time are:
1. Setting up and running of payroll
2. Dividend policy
Company law states that in general terms, the directors / shareholders
cannot be indebted to the company. Therefore all the you have drawn thus
far needs to be covered by either of these avenues.
The level of payroll balanced against dividends will need to be
considered based upon whether you have any reasons to be declaring more
than the very minimum salary to pay some national insurance
contributions (prudent just in case, heavens forbid, you needed to make
any DSS claims in the future). Your pension contributions would
certainly be a factor here. Otherwise dividends are cheaper because
there in no national insurance costs thereon.
You may have heard on the grapevine that ACT (Advance Corporation Tax),
the tax payable in advance when dividends are paid dies on 5 April 1999.
The only consideration here is whether to take dividends in the tax year
1998/99 or 1999/20 with the associated cash flow considerations.
The abolition of ACT is very nearly neutral to a company such as yours;
the only difference is the grossing up aspect of the dividends which if
you were borderline for higher rates of tax, would actually be to your
advantage.
>shall i start by sending you the accounts so far.
Yes, then I can get a rough idea of what your current account looks
like.
> perhaps you can then quote
>for sorting it out?
With pleasure. If you will run the payroll and prepare the VAT returns
(when and if applicable) and the books are much the same as before, you
would be looking at approximately £500 to £600 (maximum) to:
a. Prepare full and abbreviated company accounts.
b. Assist with tax planning in respect of dividend / PAYE policy.
c. Personal Taxation affairs including self assessment (which you will
most definitely, still be required to submit).
d. Assist with ad hoc queries as and when you may have them.
>i realise i need to do paye, is there an addon available for quicken?
I am not sure, I believe so. However, quicken is not a UK package, so it
will need to be given a quick road test.
> i used to
>work for a payroll company, so should be able to get hold of their product, it\'s
>just designed to handle 10000 employees, not 1, so it might be a bit cumbersom.
>otoh, i do know it backwards.
Probably safer. What program is it?
>
>timJ
>
>
>Brought to you by http://www.paneris.co.uk/.
Martin Tiano
Martin Tiano & Co.
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11998,'Tue Mar 30 18:06:22 1999','commission',1,0,'
Martin,
How do I record commission paid to me (one of our partners pays 10% commission on customers we bring them).
I assume commission is not VATable (is this correct?), so do i record a non VAT invoice, or what?
thanks
timj
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
11999,'Tue Mar 30 22:26:52 1999','Re: commission',1,11998,'
Hi Tim,
To answer your questions
>How do I record commission paid to me (one of our partners pays 10% commission on customers we bring them).
Invoice it in the normal way
>I assume commission is not VATable (is this correct?), so do i record a non VAT invoice, or what?
The type of commission that you speak of is VATable if you are VAT registered
Any more queries, do not hesitate.
Happy Holidays,
Martin
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12000,'Tue Mar 30 22:29:50 1999','Re: commission',1,11998,'
Hi Tim,
To answer your questions
>How do I record commission paid to me (one of our partners pays 10% commission on customers we bring them).
Invoice it in the normal way
>I assume commission is not VATable (is this correct?), so do i record a non VAT invoice, or what?
The type of commission that you speak of is VATable if you are VAT registered
Any more queries, do not hesitate.
Happy Holidays,
Martin
','f','',142,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
143,'personal','personal private List',8143,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/personal/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/personal/',7);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12001,'Wed Sep 15 16:54:14 1999','First private mail over the web',3,0,'
Grim,
you are the honoured recipient of my first email
sent from my \'private\' space on the web.
I would like to talk to you about this weekend,
I have a horrible feeling I will have to blow you
out, due to crap management of work.
It is terribly late, an example of above crap management.
love
tim
','f','',143,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12002,'Tue Dec 29 12:54:36 1998','Test hotmail from Tim',3,0,'
Hi you two,
lets see how long it takes for this to be delivered.
yours
tim
','f','',143,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12003,'Wed Jun 23 21:30:18 1999','QVA URL',3,0,'
<a href=http://www.beausoft.com/qva15.exe>http://www.beausoft.com/qva15.exe
</a>
TIMP
BURTAWP
','f','',143,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
144,'williamc','williamc List',8144,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/williamc/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/williamc/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12004,'Tue Feb 2 20:50:33 1999','jas, jo, jal and assorted ...',3,0,'
William,
Your page on Paneris was modified by http://194.222.198.16/,
I have returned it to its previous state.
All,
do we care yet?
yours
timP
','f','',144,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
145,'williams','williams List',8145,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/williams/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/williams/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12005,'Thu Sep 10 11:42:20 1998','NewsDB',3,0,'
Will,
Haven\'t looked at your site for a bit, it seems
to be coming along.
Can you tell me more about NewsDB (It doesn\'t seem to be on your site).
Does it offer the sames functionality as <a href=\'http://www.folio.com/\'>Folio Views</a>?
If so then I am very interested and could probably sell it.
I also want to get rib of the system I am using to send you this.
(I know it is a pain, and it is on my plan, but would you mind replying
via the web not your email client?)
I am finding that I cannot persuade ANYONE to do so,
except when money is involved, and I haven\'t had the bottle to
put an SMTP server into it yet, but coming soon.
Yours
timP
','f','',145,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
146,'willr','willr List',8146,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/willr/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/willr/',6);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12006,'Mon Feb 1 12:41:43 1999','Hi will',3,0,'
Hi Will,
Welcome to Paneris.
When you created your node you added a password (wombat).
This means that nonone can read your details.
Shall I remove it?
Ps Who are you?
yours
timP
','f','',146,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12007,'Mon Feb 1 12:43:33 1999','Re: Hi will',1,12006,'
TimP,
>Ps Who are you?
Will has got intouch with us through Ed Ross at keyhaven, I was going to meet him last monday, but I had to cancel.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',146,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12008,'Mon Feb 1 12:44:56 1999','Broken link',3,0,'
Will,
there is a broken link on http://www.xstream-media.co.uk/
for home.htm
yours
Timp
PS do you have a fixed IP address?
If so I will add it to the IPs that the site knows about.
','f','',146,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12009,'Mon Feb 1 12:58:34 1999','Re: Re: Meeting-Ecommerce info needs [/people/willr/ by Will Rowsell]',1,0,'
Will,
>New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/willr/messages/7.shtml
Well done for using the messageboard system. unfortunately your board
appears to be broken, we are looking int this.
>>sorry you can\'t make it for a meet at Keyhaven but never mind.
v busy this week, but i will be in town shortly, and will see you then.
>
> I need input concerning two clients of mine who are in the market for E
commerce site\'s. They are completely green so would be led completely by us.
no problems.
>
>Do you have some past proposals that I could look at so I can talk to them
from an educated stand point. I would like to bring you in once I have had
initial feedback from them as to their needs. I don\'t know how much they
have to spend yet but I don\'t think it will be that substantial initialy.
Please take a look at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/hoop/transworld/index.html. We didn\'t get
the site, but we did try hard, and the proposal is one of our better ones.
An ecommerce site tends to contain the following:
1) a database of products, with prices and pictures.
2) the ability to enter and update this database
3) the ability to search and/or drill-down through the database
4) a shopping trolley with VAT calculation and delivery pricing
5) a checkout with credit card facilities - provided by a 3rd party (eg
www.securetrading.com)
this is he basics. people typically tend to do much more with the database,
and products can be quite complex. It would be very interesting to know
what is to be sold, and how many seperate products there are.
>
>May\'be we could agree a fee on % of sales againts a large setup fee?
We like this idea (depending on the product, and our feel for the customer\'s
ability to run a successful site).
>This is all in the air at the moment since I don\'t know what a ballpark
price for a basic Ecom site has been in the past. Thus any info from
yourself would be most enlightening.
Depending on complexity: £6,000 to £15,000+.
>
>I will be more enlightened as to their needs once they have come up with
more detailed specifications in the next month.
>I hope to talk to you soon on the subject.
excellent, please give me a call.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
','f','',146,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12010,'Mon Feb 15 10:55:26 1999','Activity update',41,0,'
Dear Tim
my meetings have been put off another week
so no news on the ecom jobs as yet. But I think they will want to handle
the fulfilment(order management) initially and see how busy they get.
If it is too much to handle then I think they will want a third party to
handle that side of things.
I am seeing another fulfillment lead this week who use "the Beano" rights. I am going to try and upsell
them some shockwave on their site. They want to get in to ecommerce big time.
Cheque them out at www.intermail.co.uk
Pretty basic!
I suggested to them that we might form a partnership
as part of their sales strategy? They are a 5mill business.
What areas do you think can we make an approach from?
In the mean time I am slack at the moment. Have you any projects
that I could be of help on?
Cheque out www.xstream-media.co.uk/caz-loyd/
to see some new shockwave work I\'m doing for a travel client.
Any thoughts about any added functionality we could upsell to them.
any thoughts v.soon regarding beano client would be most appreciated
since I\'m seeing them tommorrow.
Regards
Will
','f','',146,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12011,'Mon Feb 15 11:23:16 1999','Re: Activity update',1,12010,'
>Dear Tim
>my meetings have been put off another week
>so no news on the ecom jobs as yet. But I think they will want to handle
>the fulfilment(order management) initially and see how busy they get.
>If it is too much to handle then I think they will want a third party to
>handle that side of things.
cool
>I am seeing another fulfillment lead this week who use "the Beano" rights. I am going to try and upsell
>them some shockwave on their site. They want to get in to ecommerce big time.
the beano would shock quite nicely.
>Cheque them out at www.intermail.co.uk
>Pretty basic!
possibly the worst web site i have ever seen.
>I suggested to them that we might form a partnership
>as part of their sales strategy? They are a 5mill business.
>What areas do you think can we make an approach from?
1) design their site properly
2) do ecommerce for the beano and anything else they are interested in.
>In the mean time I am slack at the moment. Have you any projects
>that I could be of help on?
not really, we have 1 flash project but danielh is handling that, if he needs help, i\'ll let you know.
>Cheque out www.xstream-media.co.uk/caz-loyd/
>to see some new shockwave work I\'m doing for a travel client.
>Any thoughts about any added functionality we could upsell to them.
I still maintain my 1st website which has a similar subject matter, check out www.adrift.co.nz. it has a message board that is now quite well used. you could sell them one.
>any thoughts v.soon regarding beano client would be most appreciated
>since I\'m seeing them tommorrow.
good luck, they look ripe for the web, i\'d be more than happy to see them.
Cheers
timJ
','f','',146,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
147,'agm','Another Goddam Meeting',8147,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/agm/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/agm/',1);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12012,'Fri Nov 6 17:41:09 1998','The minutes are up',1,0,'
And I have created an AGM node under philosophy to put everything in.
','f','',147,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12013,'Fri Nov 6 21:40:58 1998','CVS',4,0,'
CVS does not really have a full web interface, it turns
out as far as I can see, since cvsweb will allow you to
browse very nicely and download, but not upload.
In practice this is no bother since there are several
drag and drop CVS clients for Win32, Java, Mac, etc.
etc. etc.
','f','',147,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12014,'Sat Nov 7 9:57:07 1998','Re: CVS',1,12013,'
>CVS does not really have a full web interface, it turns
>out as far as I can see, since cvsweb will allow you to
>browse very nicely and download, but not upload.
>In practice this is no bother since there are several
>drag and drop CVS clients for Win32, Java, Mac, etc.
>etc. etc.
how do we do this online editing of docs that we can do now on paneris? I don\'t think we can do without it.
','f','',147,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12015,'Sat Nov 7 17:18:18 1998','Re: Re: CVS',4,12014,'
>how do we do this online editing of docs that we can do now on paneris? I don\'t think we can do without it.
Fair play, we have two options:
1) hook it up to CVS rather than whatever it does now,
which should be trivial---after all it is only one
small command to check something into CVS---and would
also naturally detect the (admittedly unlikely)
race condition of double upload and actually offer
a way of resolving it
2) make people use CVS for updates
I agree (1) is far preferable :-).
Having said that I myself loathe the web interface to
Paneris with a deep loathing---not Tim\'s fault, just
the incredibly clunky process of editing in a stupid
text area or cutting and pasting---and I virtually always
use emacs\' transparent ftp filesystem except when I
am feeling very good. (I know that breaks the versioning:
if we had CVS up it wouldn\'t, since emacs knows about it!)
I for one would far rather have a drag and drop down/up
load process.
What about hooking the existing upload screen into
a CVS command, enhancing it with an "upload from local
file" button---and providing the Java CVS client for
those who can be bothered to wait for it to be downloaded?
Also links to precompiled native Windoze etc. clients.
','f','',147,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12016,'Sat Nov 7 17:21:57 1998','Re: The minutes are up',4,12012,'
>And I have created an AGM node under philosophy to put everything in.
Hey we haven\'t said thank you to Tim for writing the minutes
up, you were very modest but we are grateful!!!
','f','',147,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12017,'Sun Nov 8 20:24:23 1998','Re: Re: Re: CVS',3,12015,'
>>how do we do this online editing of docs that we can do now on paneris? I don\'t think we can do without it.
Agreed, I am such a masochist that I use the web interface nearly all the time.
>Fair play, we have two options:
>1) hook it up to CVS rather than whatever it does now,
> which should be trivial---after all it is only one
> small command to check something into CVS---and would
> also naturally detect the (admittedly unlikely)
> race condition of double upload and actually offer
> a way of resolving it
Thats the way to do it.
>2) make people use CVS for updates
>I agree (1) is far preferable :-).
>Having said that I myself loathe the web interface to
>Paneris with a deep loathing---not Tim\'s fault, just
>the incredibly clunky process of editing in a stupid
>text area or cutting and pasting---and I virtually always
>use emacs\' transparent ftp filesystem except when I
>am feeling very good. (I know that breaks the versioning:
>if we had CVS up it wouldn\'t, since emacs knows about it!)
>I for one would far rather have a drag and drop down/up
>load process.
Seems fine as CVS should be able to keep everything tidy.
>What about hooking the existing upload screen into
>a CVS command, enhancing it with an "upload from local
>file" button
That button is there <b>Or just overwrite with a local copy</b>.
>---and providing the Java CVS client for
>those who can be bothered to wait for it to be downloaded?
>Also links to precompiled native Windoze etc. clients.
I am not wedded to the current system, it does however
enable <strong>anyone</strong> to modify files.
I don\'t mind what method we use to update files, but
am keen to be able to do it online, anywhere, and that a complete record of all versions is available.
This means that those who bypass the system should try
to keep the current <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/conventions.htm\'>file naming conventions</a> intact, until
everything is safely in CVS.
yours
timP
','f','',147,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12018,'Mon Nov 9 9:10:54 1998','Re: Re: Re: CVS',1,12015,'
>>how do we do this online editing of docs that we can do now on paneris? I don\'t think we can do without it.
>Fair play, we have two options:
>1) hook it up to CVS rather than whatever it does now,
> which should be trivial---after all it is only one
> small command to check something into CVS---and would
> also naturally detect the (admittedly unlikely)
> race condition of double upload and actually offer
> a way of resolving it
>2) make people use CVS for updates
>I agree (1) is far preferable :-).
me too.
>Having said that I myself loathe the web interface to
>Paneris with a deep loathing---not Tim\'s fault, just
>the incredibly clunky process of editing in a stupid
>text area or cutting and pasting---and I virtually always
>use emacs\' transparent ftp filesystem except when I
>am feeling very good. (I know that breaks the versioning:
>if we had CVS up it wouldn\'t, since emacs knows about it!)
>I for one would far rather have a drag and drop down/up
>load process.
Ahh, but it is soo nice to have editable webspace, and it really speeds up making those little corrections (a lot of which would not happen if we had a ftp down, mod, ftp up process). The only thing I would like is a spellcheck (is there one available for oss / linux?
>What about hooking the existing upload screen into
>a CVS command, enhancing it with an "upload from local
>file" button---and providing the Java CVS client for
>those who can be bothered to wait for it to be downloaded?
>Also links to precompiled native Windoze etc. clients.
sounds cool if it can be made to work.
','f','',147,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12019,'Tue Nov 10 10:40:49 1998','Giles at Keyhaven',1,0,'
Giles gave me a 2nd call yesterday about becoming more closely involved with paneris.
I chatted with him about becoming a menber of paneris, and what core membership meant, and he (and the rest of keyhaven are very keen).
I am going to visit them on friday to explain to the board how we are organised, and what it means to join paneris, if all goes well, I will invite Giles to the xmas party so you can all meet him.
On thursday, I am going to plan what I am going to say. (I am in london tomorrow). I would appreciate any input you may have, and any thoughts on this issue.
Giles is technically competant (he can html), and is young and bright. I see his role as mainly a salesman, although he is very capable managing small projects, and doing design/html work.
I think he would be a useful addition to the team, and he meets the key criteria of \'competance\'. He also has a sales lead for "global corporate management system", I know no more..
more details on keyhaven at <a href=/partners/keyhaven>their node</a>.
','f','',147,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12020,'Mon Nov 16 11:15:03 1998','Re: Re: The minutes are up',2,12016,'
>>And I have created an AGM node under philosophy to put everything in.
>Hey we haven\'t said thank you to Tim for writing the minutes
>up, you were very modest but we are grateful!!!
Hear, hear. Ta muchly!
','f','',147,0,0);
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148,'philosophy','Paneris Philosophy',8148,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/philosophy/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/philosophy/',1);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12021,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Comments on the Philosophy pages',2,0,'
I agree with the Organisation page.
I couldn\'t find the GNU motivation document.
As for the Aims document:
Why do we need the "without buying in to various obsolescent
technologies and cultural edifices". Surely Paneris is about
"enabl[ing] its members to earn their living as easily and
efficiently as possible" full stop, no? By qualifying the phrase
you seen to imply that we could be more efficient and live more
easily if we _did_ "buy into [etc]". Rather than concentrating
on the fact that we are _not_ using the old organisational models,
why not acentuate the fact that we _do_ use modern (network)
organisational models?
"PanEris is founded so as to provide the members with the security
which English business has ceased to provide." - if only it did!
Seriously, though, how does PanEris achieve this?
"PanEris is also founded as a means by which the members can discharge
their responsibility to the rest of the International Proletariat".
I personally feel very uncomfortable with such a statement. I don\'t feel
that I have such a responsibility - anything I do to help is good, but
I can\'t remember ever being motivated by my responsibility to the world.
I know, I know, I\'m a bastard. But I\'m still a member of PanEris (I hope).
I know that it\'s a lot more important to Tim and that PanEris _was_
created, at least in part, to help others out, but I\'m not sure how that
is achieved. Is this because there is a difference between PanEris the
organisation and PanEris the web site? Do I have to sign up to these
politics to join PanEris? To use the PanEris site?
As a member of the post-political generation, I would feel put-off finding
more about the organisation as soon as I spotted "International Proletariat"
which smacks of old-school industrialist thinking. I think that the requirement
of having a computer and Internet account means that a vast number of the
world\'s waged cannot be helped by PanEris unless we are talking about a more
radical interpretation of "help" that the one which I am using (can become
members of PanEris and work with us).
I hope I don\'t sound too critical. I think most of what I have said concerns
the tone of the document. I would feel happier with a more business-like
document with less emphasis on saving the world (more emphasis on working
efficiently). Maybe more of a mission statement than a manifesto. I realise
that PanEris is not just about business, but how are the extra objectives
achieved other than by allowing us to conduct business in the way we want to?
That might add up to 4p worth :-)
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12022,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Introductory musings',3,0,'
WilliamC wrote:
>I liked the Implementation Plan. I couldn\'t find much else about what
>working methods you guys have evolved but I\'d be interested to see.
As TimJ said, the way we work is really buried in the code.
There are few, if any, good overviews or other documents, in fact I tend to refer to your emails over the years, and our conversation at 227 Banbury Road.
The objectives have been variously characterised, but Chippy put succinctly the
minimum objective: to become a functioning marketplace for small outsourced jobs.
We are very close to this now. We certainly have a functioning Time Recording System, Invoicing System and the rudiments of a project planning and administartion system.
Whilst we still do not have any strangers on the team, the idea is that
anyone with skills to offer (not necessarily in programming, anything digital)
can join and swell the workforce.
What we have not yet been able to do is create tentative projects.
We should expect to be able to think up a project, describe and estimate it,
and then Paneris provide the project owner with a project team and, more importantly, a customer or customer consortium to fund it.
yours
TimP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12023,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: Introductory musings',4,12022,'
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> The objectives have been variously characterised, but Chippy put
> succinctly the minimum objective: to become a functioning
> marketplace for small outsourced jobs.
>
> We are very close to this now. We certainly have a functioning Time
> Recording System, Invoicing System and the rudiments of a project
> planning and administartion system.
It sounds like it\'s all going very much the way it was meant to!
Kudos.
How about advertising?
> What we have not yet been able to do is create tentative projects.
> We should expect to be able to think up a project, describe and
> estimate it, and then Paneris provide the project owner with a
> project team and, more importantly, a customer or customer
> consortium to fund it.
Yep, or even, dare I suggest, VC :).
If the work I did for Realise comes to nothing, of which there a real
chance since the man pushing it has a possibly off-putting lack of
technical background, we might consider doing something similar.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12024,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','ISO 9000-3 meets the Bazaar',3,0,'
The combination of the Bazaar methodology with
automated quality assuance seems to me to be unbeatable.
As you know I am very keen on ISO9000-3 registration and
would be interested in any thoughts you have on obtaining
it.
To get to this point I think we need to achieve the following:
1) Get the Bazaar methodology working
2) Get the automated quality assurance working.
3) Get audited by an approved body.
Get the Bazaar methodology working
==================================
We have not yet got a formal mechanism in place for
testing software and recording the test results.
Similarly for code review.
To test our products we need as many people as possible,
on as many platforms as possible, to visit a site and record
problems and what platforms used.
For code reviews things get a bit trickier.
Code Reviews have a number of functions.
They are intended to give the customer and ISO an warm feeling,
but their real import is education and cohesion.
If the Paneris methodology is to be scalable and we are to take on
big jobs for large amounts of money then the \'cottage industry\'
standards of most web developers must be overcome.
Some jobs will not require the full weight of QA, so our QA system must be
scalable to the job, however there are jobs, which we want,
where the code must be maintainable by people other than the original author.
This is traditionally achieved by having a \'house style\' enforced by reviews
and a little automated style checking.
I have written a program called comment.pl which enables all scripts on
Paneris to be annotated (that is what the <em>source</em> link is for :)
Finally, of course, the major problem with our Bazaar at the moment is that
very few people are prepared to use the Message Boards for emails.
Whilst the solution is to install HyperNews on Dircon in the meantime
I encourage their use for all Paneris discussion and for all significant
project related traffic, but in reality we are not able to
discipline ourselves so as to obtain a complete record, let alone our customers.
Get the automated quality assurance working.
============================================
Well, we have got very little of this.
As I understand it QA is about ticking boxes.
People don\'t like doing it, especially if they are not allowed to continue until a
box has been ticked.
What we have got is a document version control mechanism which
enables documents to be modified, or overwitten, with old versions (up to a maximum of 40)
to be stored.
We also have an HTML style enforcer (/system/utils/indent.pl) which checks HTML quality,
but no recording of it having been run.
I have started to write a similar script for perl scripts.
(I would like to see online modification of perl scripts, but feel
too scared of the security implications. )
We should have a mechanism by which scripts/programs can be
held at the project node, either with their QA data held inside them or in a separate
file held at the node, with an automated <tt>make</tt>-like
issuing process which records the issue date.
The main trick with QA is a Quality Plan, which is a <B>MUST</B> for
every project.
The Quality Plan can mearly say that there will be no quality checks for this project,
however that must be stated explicitly.
Get audited by an approved body.
===============================
QMS (Quality Management Services) don\'t seem to have a web presence, and they are the only
body I have heard of.
Anyway, thats enough.
yours
TimP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12025,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: ISO 9000-3 meets the Bazaar',4,12024,'
There\'s an important point about CVS buried in here! See if you can
find it ...
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/philosophy/messages/4.htm
>
> Subject: ISO 9000-3 meets the Bazaar
> From: TimP (tim@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
> The combination of the Bazaar methodology with
> automated quality assuance seems to me to be unbeatable.
>
> As you know I am very keen on ISO9000-3 registration and
> would be interested in any thoughts you have on obtaining
> it.
I don\'t know what 9000-3 is, but if it\'s anything like 9000-2 then the
big problem is the outlay. The "examiners" do not come cheap.
Otherwise all they are looking for is a sensible-looking system which
provides things like this:
<UL>
<LI> having designated roles for everyone, including someone in charge
<LI> specification, reviewed at least once and signed by customer and
project manager
<UL>
<LI> requirements spec: what it\'s for
<LI> functional spec: how it seems to the user
</UL>
<LI> project plan, reviewed at least once signed by project manager
<UL>
<LI> resources (people, plant, euros, ...) needed for development
<LI> one of those pretty timetable/dependency charts <TT>:)</TT>
<LI> risk analysis
<LI> test plan
<LI> acceptance plan
</UL>
<LI> documentation on the actual architecture and code, reviewed and
signed
<LI> versioning/build system with identifiable and recoverable
releases
<UL>
<LI> and system for making backups, with someone responsible,
checklists, signatures ...
</UL>
<LI> fault report/feature request system
<LI> change notice
<UL>
<LI> each generated in response to a fault/feature request
<LI> contains a description of what files will be changed and how:
all work has to be justified/explained in this way
<LI> signed off by project manager
<LI> when the files concerned are checked out of the version
control system, a pointer is left to the change notice
</UL>
<LI> checklisted procedure for building a release, since that can
be quite complicated
<LI> testing results of each proposed release, signed by test person
<LI> change document for each release, signed by project manager
<UL>
<LI> summary of change notices made since last release
<LI> procedure for ensuring that all interested parties get the
change document drawn to their attention
</UL>
<LI> acceptance of each tested release, signed by customer
<LI> (go back to fault report/feature request generation)
</UL>
In addition you need a detailed description of the whole process, all
the documents and all stages (inputs/outputs from each)---and this
description must itself be under version control and subject to
periodic revision.
Signatures (or their computerised equivalent) are great because they
focus responsibility; things mustn\'t be allowed to fall into the gaps.
Checklists (or their computerised workflow equivalent) are great
because they provide a simple net for catching some of the more stupid
mistakes.
Authorisation and justification of every piece of work is great
because it provides an audit trail in case things go wrong, and helps
stop the classic mistakes of duplicating work, messing other people\'s
work up, and doing work which is not really needed in the first place.
> Some jobs will not require the full weight of QA, so our QA system
> must be scalable to the job
A system like this is in fact surprisingly unintrusive, because you
can adjust the granularity of the records over a wide range to suit
the conditions. Generally if you only have a very few people working
on the code then "change notice CN6782: add spellcheck feature; will
modify [27 files] in whatever way seems appropriate", followed by
"release 1.4: spellcheck feature; see CN6782" will do fine.
Some projects even start and end with "release 1.0: initial release;
see CN0001".
Also it\'s perfectly OK to do things in a different order from what the
above suggests. For instance you can go away and make changes to your
local copies of source files in response to a bug report, then make up
a change notice and get it signed off, check out officially and
immediately check your changes back in. Of course, you have to be
confident that your project manager will agree with your idea and
hence pay you ...
Yes this means lying and forging the documentation :).
> Get the Bazaar methodology working
> ==================================
The Bazaar methodology interacts badly with serious QA in two ways:
firstly, all this signing-off and reviewing requires constant
communication (I don\'t know what to about that except give everyone a
mobile); and secondly, the version control system can become a
bottleneck.
Basically the whole check out/check in procedure becomes an enormous
pain, because the source file is generally too coarse-grained a unit
to support multiple developers working on multiple problems. Everyone
wants to check everything out and the result is chaos.
That is why virtually all the well-known bazaar projects (Wine, Gnome,
KDE, egcs, Linux kernel, ...), and many traditional software shops,
use CVS --- http://www.loria.fr/~molli/cvs-index.html .
CVS doesn\'t (by default) bother with locking your sources. Instead,
if Mr X tries to commit changes on a file which Mr Y has in the
meantime already committed changes of his own, CVS uses `diff\' to show
X what Y has done; 95% of the time it is obvious that nothing bad will
happen and X can leave CVS to merge the two sets of changes
automatically. Otherwise X has to fix up his changes to fit with Ys.
The CVS client and, I think, the server run on both Win32 and Unix
over TCP (e.g. Internet).
One of the nice features is that you can give everyone read access,
e.g. for code readthroughs, while restricting write access to active
developers. Of course the aforementioned projects still run into
problems with those developers messing things up because of
misunderstandings---which is why a commercial cooperative would do
better not to trust them quite as much, and instead insist that they
go through a proper change notice procedure.
Another splendid thing about CVS is that because it was originally
just a collection of shell scripts wrapped around GNU RCS, it is still
extremely extensible and customisable and could be integrated into
whatever project system one wanted.
> To test our products we need as many people as possible,
> on as many platforms as possible, to visit a site and record
> problems and what platforms used.
You need to write up beforehand, in what you agree with the customer,
what exactly is going to be tested and on what platforms.
> For code reviews things get a bit trickier.
> Code Reviews have a number of functions.
> They are intended to give the customer and ISO an warm feeling,
Hmmm, maybe the QA people are generally more interested in
specification and testing---unless you are talking about
safety-critical code in which case they want to see code reviews by a
separate third party.
> but their real import is education and cohesion.
Yes, they are a fantastic way of *achieving* good results which pass
the QA tests whose function is to *demonstrate* that you have achieved
a quality product.
> This is traditionally achieved by having a \'house style\' enforced
> by reviews and a little automated style checking.
Just as long as the style points are left very general. I don\'t think
there\'s any point in trying to enforce particular indentation rules on
people, or silly complicated naming conventions (except pseudo-package
prefixes in languages that lack real packages, like C).
> Finally, of course, the major problem with our Bazaar at the moment is that
> very few people are prepared to use the Message Boards for emails.
Run a news server and gateway it to/from a set of mailing lists.
That\'s the only way you will get people to really use it.
> We should have a mechanism by which scripts/programs can be
> held at the project node,
This was the original idea behind the doc system ...
As far as supporting a work structure like this is concerned ... I
think it\'s sufficiently complicated that it would be worth
implementing it as a set of high-level rules, maybe even diagrams.
It will obviously have similarities with expensive products from
Rational, as well as with humbler things like Notes, and there are
bound to be homebrewed things already out there.
Finally, it\'s incredibly important that the system should be flexible.
It should be obvious how to short-circuit it. This is easy to achieve
with a paper-based system, perhaps an obvious banana skin for a
computer-based one.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12026,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: Comments on the Philosophy pages',3,12021,'
I have put a copy of <a href=\'motivation.html\'>the motivation acticle</a>
on the site.
This is a time honoured extract from the GNU distribution,
which I expect everyone has read.
MylesC>Why do we need the "without buying in to various obsolescent
MylesC> technologies and cultural edifices".
Well we don\'t really, but I am trying to point out that
there are more efficient methods of working but that they should
be depricated by Paneris because they carry with them ideological
baggage. In particular we would all profit by having a boss who
could tell everyone what to do and when to do it and by borrowing
a large amount of money from a bank and buying new hardware and M$ software.
However my point is that everything on Paneris can be obtained and used
free off the web. (This is why I have such problems with the use of M$ Access
for panerisdev; my inability to mirror panerisdev seem to prove the point).
This is why the specification of the required <a href=\'/system/tools.htm\'>tool set</a>
is important.
I am reluctant to change the other words, as they do have
significance for me, but would like to poll others.
Just because the Thatcher generation can\'t spell \'International Proles\' is no
reason not to use the term <img src=\'/images/smile.gif\'>.
I do think that we need to have an \'Ideological Buy In\' for Paneris People,
and think that we need to get it voted on before inviting many more people
to join.
This \'Buy In\' needs to be written down, possibly by MylesC
as he seems to be the holder of the minimal set, as I have had many chats
but find that memory fails me and others.
yours
timp
PS remember you can just change text you disagree with.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12027,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: ISO 9000-3 meets the Bazaar',2,12025,'
Thank you very much Will. I\'ve been asking what adopting
ISO-9000 would mean to us for a while, and I think this
answers my question.
I feel as though we are making progress on the first few issues
(Project Plan and Specifications), although and our main obstacle
is versioning and bug reports. This is the least formalised
part of the way we operate (although we have had some problem
with roles as well...), but I am still not convinced that "automating"
them is as important as just having them in the first place.
I can understand the conflict between Bazaar and QA, but I
wonder how much the reviewers (us) actually make changes for
us at the minute, as opposed to reporting them to the project
leader or developer. The closest we get to such Bazaar development
is the PMS which at the minute locks the entire system (let alone
individual files) but doesn\'t enforce that (you can still upload
your work all over someone elses) and we\'ve had problems (with only
2 developers involved :-)
How refreshing to hear someone else say that how you indent your HTML
is not that important! I would be very strongly against a similar checker
for Perl scripts, especially since TimP does it incorrectly :-)
On the subject of news servers with a gateway to mailing lists, we don\'t
even need that. Just a mailing list with an archive would be better than
the message boards, but CoCo board goes even further allowing web or mail
access to messages/attachments (I know most mailing list can handle them
now) and other nifty collaborative working do-dads.
So, let\'s forget about how we might be able to automate the checking of the
boxes (surely its important to have a human do that...) and decide what ISO-9000
documents and processes we need. Tim?
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
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12028,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: ISO 9000-3 meets the Bazaar',4,12027,'
> So, let\'s forget about how we might be able to automate the checking of the
> boxes (surely its important to have a human do that...)
Agreed. Develop a good manually operated system and then
think about whether it\'s worth automating.
','f','',148,0,0);
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12029,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','lost',1,0,'
how do I get here from paneris root?
','f','',148,0,0);
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12030,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: lost',3,12029,'
There are two ways to do it (now).
Firstly from the \'Other Functions\' which has been there for 2 days.
As of now you can get there from the \'dos\' view.
I have put a link to it on my personal page.
The reaons they are not \'open\' was based on a feeling,
which might need to be re-polled, that we didn\'t want
the casual browser, or customer to be
confused/oveloaded/weirded-out.
yours
timP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12031,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: lost',1,12030,'
>The reaons they are not \'open\' was based on a feeling,
>which might need to be re-polled, that we didn\'t want
>the casual browser, or customer to be
>confused/oveloaded/weirded-out.
Openness. Openness. Openness.
Let them in, they will soon go elsewhere if they don\'t understand what they see, they won\'t even go there if they are overloaded, and weirdness is not exactly un-panerisien.
','f','',148,0,0);
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12032,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: lost',3,12031,'
Couldn\'t agree more, done.
timp
','f','',148,0,0);
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12033,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Definitive Site',3,0,'
Repost due to duplication of philosophy node under <tt>system</tt>
and at the top level, oops.
I found http://www.worldsocialism.org
the other day.
The more I read of it the more I think it is a proper definition
of what I understand by Socialism.
The nice thing about it is that nothing has to change until we all
vote it in :)
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12034,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: Definitive Site',1,12033,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by TimP
I have a bit of a problem with any system that is designed, defined, or at all
prescriptive.
I think that if you can take anything from the modern world, it is one thing:
CHANGE
In this respect Wired hit the nail on the head.
So, how do we construct a world system that both encourages change and
adjusts rapidly to the consequences of it?
The only answer IMHO is not to construct systems at all, but rather let evolution
take care of it. But is evolution good enough, traditionaly it\'s a bit slow and can
lead to painful \'Neanderthal\' dead ends.
Ultimately it has to be good enough, if change is taking place more quickly
than we can adjust to it, we\'re fucked. But we can help ourselves:
Encourage the innovative.
Encourage the alternative.
Discourage rules, laws and systems.
So, to this end, I would like to see a wealth redistribution (using 100% death
duties) towards allowing the young to explore new ideas. I find the entire
concept of wellfare-to-work counter to youthful free thinking. (interesting point -
if you are a musician with demonstratable skills, you are not forced into a job,
but can rather remain on the dole). Why can\'t they do the same for all \'free
thinkers\', or just everybody.
Baby awake,
more later
TimJ
','f','',148,0,0);
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12035,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: Definitive Site',3,12034,'
I don\'t see socialism and change as being mutually incompatible.
It seems that you are tarring it with the state-capitalist
brush that it has suffered from for so long.
Socialism is not, as far as I can see, a designed or controlled
thing, it is hardly even defined.
It does have some fundamental axioms or beliefs which I paraphrase as
1. People are nice
2. Production for profit is the root of all social problems
3. Disparate economic power is an evil in itself
I sign up to these, and so am forced to agree with your 100%
inheritance tax, (though I am not expecting socialism to
arrive before this becomes an issue for me personnaly and
I would not \'voluntarily\' give any inheritance I recieved away
before it had :)
I do think that the Socialist Party are still very much
saddled with a historical legacy, and they have not yet
got a lot to say to us, as their main concern is still with
the lagacy of imperialism and the rights or workers in a
manufacturing situation.
We are \'workers who control the means of production\'
but we do not control the means of distribution, which, especially
after the sale of net, is again, owned by capital.
I do think that we are able to make a very significant
contribution to the evolution of economic and social theory
by creating a fair and equitable environment to work within,
but bearing in mind that neither the John Lewis Partnership nor
the CO-OP have broken the mold of capitalism I have limited ambitions:
namely to enable me and mine to prosper without exploiting
others.
ohoh Ruths awake :)
love Tim
','f','',148,0,0);
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12036,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: Definitive Site',4,12035,'Posted on behalf of Will by TimP
Production for profit is not in itself a problem. In fact it\'s
rather a sensible way of (a) ensuring that better ways of
doing things are found and (b) resources are devoted to doing
the things that people actually want.
Profit is an important part of the functioning of the markets.
The problem comes when people confuse being pro-market with
being pro-business and pro-business with anti-everything else.
If you are pro-market then you are pro-competition and you
aren\'t doing that right unless you get up the noses of lots
of businessmen. As it is we don\'t do this nearly enough.
We need much tougher competition law and much less interlekshual
property.
If you are pro-market then there is no reason why you shouldn\'t
also be pro lots of inherently good things like socialised
education, medicine etc., if you feel that the things the
market system will do for you are inappropriate or irrelevant
in those contexts.
This can all work tremendously well and does in all the small
countries of northern europe barring belgium which has its
own problems.
Moral: just because both the left and the right in the anglo-
saxon world have fallen into the confusions pointed out above
doesn\'t mean that profit really does equal antisocialism.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12037,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Openess Policy',3,0,'
There is an inconclusive thread about <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/messages/4.htm\'>Site Access Control</a>.
But think it is worth getting clear, eventually resulting in a policy.
MylesC>Agree, although I would like to see some justification, FROM ANYONE, of why
MylesC>openness is good. I fully agree that we need to open amongst ourselves (so
MylesC>that we know what is going on and can jump into projects) and I understand
MylesC>that we can use openness as a box to tick to impress some (open?) organisations,
MylesC>but is all openness good? (Some of our customer\'s pages already have password
MylesC>protection).
TimJ.1.>openness gets us business.
TimJ.2.>openness is what paneris is about.
TimJ.3.>openness allows us to run things more effeciently.
TimJ.4.>openness is objectively good.
I completely agree with 1 and 2.
3 and 4 need more thought.
<h4>openness allows us to run things more effeciently</h4>
I think so, as in "no paneris relevant documents should be uniquely held off the network".
However the form of the openeness needs to be addressed, as we don\'t want to know everything all trhe time.
I like to aim for <em>you can find it if you look</em>, which is probably what openness means anyway.
<h4>openness is objectively good</h4>
Talking with Myles last night I realised that we may be in danger of !x is bad => x is good.
If the only method of communication between people were
the website then we could implement a draconian openess
policy, an enforced conspiracy of doves; but it blatantly isn\'t.
(one of the reasons why the discussions on line have started up in earnest now is that
WilliamC is not easily available on the phone, previously TT&M have been talking a lot).
\'closedness\' in the form of insider trading is actually illegal, and most forms of corruption
stems from priviledge. So I am happy with <tt>not open implies bad</tt>.
The Americans think that openness is an objective good, as in
their Freedom of Information laws.
But our customers are not convinced :(
yours
timP
','f','',148,0,0);
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12038,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Money page',3,0,'
Nice one Myles,
Everything now becomes clear.
I will put some words about the <em>PanEris Way Discount</em>
and <em>Paneris Fund</em> in.
yours
TimP
','f','',148,0,0);
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12039,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: Money page',2,12038,'
>Nice one Myles,
>Everything now becomes clear.
>I will put some words about the <em>PanEris Way Discount</em>
>and <em>Paneris Fund</em> in.
What on earth is this all about? Does anyone except TimP know
about this? Have I missed out on some discussion?
Just my 2p: I don\'t think we should have this.
>yours
>TimP
Regards,
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
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12040,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: Money page',2,12039,'
>>Nice one Myles,
>>Everything now becomes clear.
>>I will put some words about the <em>PanEris Way Discount</em>
>>and <em>Paneris Fund</em> in.
>What on earth is this all about? Does anyone except TimP know
>about this? Have I missed out on some discussion?
>Just my 2p: I don\'t think we should have this.
OK, I have amended the money page to remove this until we have had
some discussion about this. Here is the text so that we don\'t loose it :
<h2>The PanEris Way Discount</h2>
To qualify for the <em>PanEris Way Discount</em> a customer
needs to sign up to the way we work.
</p>
The discount is graduated according to how many of the
following criteria are met:
<ul>
<li>PMS system used for project planning by customer
<li>Project initiated from http://www.paneris.co.uk/
<li>Invoices accepted on web
<li>All project related email posted from site.
<li>All documents kept on site
<li>Documents uploaded to site by customer
</ul>
This is just a reallocation of the <em>management fee</em>,
that normally goes to the project leader.
Essentially a customer can be paid if they do some of the
administative work.
</p>
The main reason why I don\'t like this is the difficulty in administrating
this discount. How do we measure how much of the above has been done by
the customer (as a percentage) and how much of the management fee relates
to the above? We can dangle this as a carrot to some customers, but the
amount of money involved is less than 8% of the total cost (which is the
full amount of the management fee, and I don\'t think any leaders out there
would like to see all that money go) and we can\'t put a total figure on
it until after the project has been completed.
And to a large extent I think that we will get data on Paneris and the PMS
if we fill these in - goodness only knows how some people would use our
systems :-)
>>yours
>>TimP
>Regards,
>Myles
Does anyone else have an opinion?
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
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12041,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: Money page',3,12040,'
>>>Nice one Myles,
>>>Everything now becomes clear.
>>>I will put some words about the <em>PanEris Way Discount</em>
>>>and <em>Paneris Fund</em> in.
>>What on earth is this all about? Does anyone except TimP know
>>about this? Have I missed out on some discussion?
>>Just my 2p: I don\'t think we should have this.
>OK, I have amended the money page to remove this until we have had
>some discussion about this. Here is the text so that we don\'t loose it :
><h2>The PanEris Way Discount</h2>
>
>To qualify for the <em>PanEris Way Discount</em> a customer
>needs to sign up to the way we work.
></p>
>
>The discount is graduated according to how many of the
>following criteria are met:
><ul>
><li>PMS system used for project planning by customer
><li>Project initiated from http://www.paneris.co.uk/
><li>Invoices accepted on web
><li>All project related email posted from site.
><li>All documents kept on site
><li>Documents uploaded to site by customer
></ul>
>
>This is just a reallocation of the <em>management fee</em>,
>that normally goes to the project leader.
>Essentially a customer can be paid if they do some of the
>administative work.
></p>
>The main reason why I don\'t like this is the difficulty in administrating
>this discount. How do we measure how much of the above has been done by
>the customer (as a percentage) and how much of the management fee relates
>to the above? We can dangle this as a carrot to some customers, but the
>amount of money involved is less than 8% of the total cost (which is the
>full amount of the management fee, and I don\'t think any leaders out there
>would like to see all that money go) and we can\'t put a total figure on
>it until after the project has been completed.
>And to a large extent I think that we will get data on Paneris and the PMS
>if we fill these in - goodness only knows how some people would use our
>systems :-)
>>>yours
>>>TimP
>>Regards,
>>Myles
>Does anyone else have an opinion?
>Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
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12042,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:48 1998','Re: Money page',3,12040,'
Appologies for previous message in thread,
typing got lost in the bit bucket.
>>>I will put some words about the <em>PanEris Way Discount</em>
>>>and <em>Paneris Fund</em> in.
>>What on earth is this all about? Does anyone except TimP know
>>about this? Have I missed out on some discussion?
See <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/sales/messages/5.htm\'>Sales board</a>.
>>Just my 2p: I don\'t think we should have this.
I am jumping the gun, as I only posted the above
last night.
>The main reason why I don\'t like this is the difficulty in administrating
>this discount. How do we measure how much of the above has been done by
>the customer (as a percentage) and how much of the management fee relates
>to the above? We can dangle this as a carrot to some customers, but the
>amount of money involved is less than 8% of the total cost (which is the
>full amount of the management fee, and I don\'t think any leaders out there
>would like to see all that money go) and we can\'t put a total figure on
>it until after the project has been completed.
>And to a large extent I think that we will get data on Paneris and the PMS
>if we fill these in - goodness only knows how some people would use our
>systems :-)
The reason I wanted to put these words in now is that
I have three customers who I am grooming for the discount,
and I wanted to have some words in place, even before
the software is written.
I see the <em>Paneirs Way Discount</em> as the carrot
to the <a href=\'/philosophy/power.shtml\'>naming and shaming</a>
stick.
yours
TimP
PS It is also important that the <em>finders fee</em>
cannot be construed as a bribe, as that is illegal.
If a web surfer finds Paneris and gives us work
for the company she is employed by then we must not
give that individual a payment, but the <em>finders fee</em>
should be discounted from the project.
','f','',148,0,0);
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12043,'Tue Sep 15 13:13:03 1998','Quora (group bonding)',3,0,'
As Paneris expands its membership we need to formalise the
the tacic understandings that have been assumed todate.
1. Paneris is a cooperative, be cooperative.
2. Working as a group is difficult, so think of it as a game.
the particular game to think of depends on the
type of the group.
The types I have encountered todate are:
<table>
<tr><th>Group Members</th><th>Game</th><th>Example</th></tr><tr><td>One person, no impact on others</td><td>Tetris</td><td>DOS.html</td></tr><tr><td>Two people, no customer</td><td>Network Doom</td><td>PMS</td></tr><tr><td>One or more people, plus customer</td><td>I went to the shops and I bought a Curly Wurly...</td><td><a href=\'/partners/airflow/gemnet/\'>Gemnet</a></td></tr>
<tr><td>Paneris</td><td>Pass the ball</td><td>New Box</td></tr>
</table>
3. To be a coding member, (and I expect to be a <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?graphic_contributor\'>Graphic Contributor</a> )
you should aim to contribute some of your code to the paneris corpus.
Ideally this should happen before working for a customer.
Even better than contributing some code is modifyig existing code and promulgating the modifications.
See <a href=\'/rules.shtml#Guidelines\'>guidelines</a>.
4. Paneris the organisation is about gaining the synergy
of a group whilst maintaining the freedom of the individual.
A term I would like to introduce is <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?egoless_programming\'>egoless programming</a>,
a term that was used in the only successful coding team I have been a member of.
The essense of it is that \'owned code\' is bad code.
Just as the compiler is your friend so is the reviewer.
5. Each activity has an implicit quorum, which should be made
explicit ASAP.
Every member of the quorum has a veto.
To ignore someones veto is to expel them from the quorum.
6. When you have finished something give it to someone else to have a go.
Love
Tim
','f','',148,0,0);
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12044,'Tue Sep 15 18:08:20 1998','Re: Quora (group bonding)',3,12043,'
>As Paneris expands its membership we need to formalise the
>the tacic understandings that have been assumed todate.
>1. Paneris is a cooperative, be cooperative.
Except, I suppose for point 5.
>2. Working as a group is difficult, so think of it as a game.
> the particular game to think of depends on the
> type of the group.
> The types I have encountered todate are:
> <table>
> <tr><th>Group Members</th><th>Game</th><th>Example</th></tr>
> <tr><td>One person, no impact on others</td><td>Tetris</td><td>DOS.html</td></tr>
> <tr><td>Two people, no customer</td><td>Network Doom</td><td>PMS</td></tr>
> <tr><td>One or more people, plus customer</td><td>I went to the shops and I bought a Curly Wurly...</td><td><a href=\'/partners/airflow/gemnet/\'>Gemnet</a></td></tr>
> <tr><td>Paneris</td><td>Pass the ball</td><td>New Box</td></tr>
> </table>
I can\'t see much different between 2 & 3 except you have less control in 3.
Note that games 1 & 3 end when you fail and 2 & 4 when you get bored :-)
>3. To be a coding member, (and I expect to be a <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?graphic_contributors\'>graphic contributor</a> )
> you should aim to contribute some of your code to the paneris corpus.
> Ideally this should happen before working for a customer.
> Even better than contributing some code is modifyig existing code and promulgating the modifications.
> See <a href=\'/rules.shtml#Guidelines\'>guidelines</a>.
So we\'re also committing to reviewing potential member\'s code?
We might have to put a limit on the length of submission allowed.
>4. Paneris the organisation is about gaining the synergy
> of a group whilst maintaining the freedom of the individual.
> A term I would like to introduce is <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?egoless_programming\'>egoless programming</a>,
> a term that was used in the only successful coding team I have been a member of.
> The essense of it is that \'owned code\' is bad code.
> Just as the compiler is your friend so is the reviewer.
Indeed.
>5. Each activity has an implicit quorum, which should be made
> explicit ASAP.
> Every member of the quorum has a veto.
> To ignore someones veto is to expel them from the quorum.
OK. Let\'s try that. Who is the quorum for the New Box, for instance?
>6. When you have finished something give it to someone else to have a go.
>
>Love
>Tim
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
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12045,'Thu Sep 24 1:17:40 1998','Legal Aid',3,0,'
All,
I met <a href=mailto:C.Willett@warwick.ac.uk>Chis Willet</a> in Tesco\'s today.
He is an academic at Warwick, specialising in Commercial Law,
and the Internet.
Come mid October he is going to give us some advice.
yours
TimP
','f','',148,0,0);
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12046,'Tue Oct 20 15:05:21 1998','Potential malicious activity',32,0,'Posted on behalf of ColinR by TimP
Hi Guys,
I\'d like to raise a potential problem with the Paneris system which I only
realised when I entered a new client of mine the other day for invoicing
purposes.
I noticed that a member of Paneris can view a list of all the clients in
the database and thereby obtain full contact details of companies
employing on a contractual/freelance basis who we have took time and
effort to obtain.
Whilst this has not presented a problem so far, it is possible that
individuals can find the site, register as a member and then poach clients
from the list with relative ease - thus leaving other, honest/genuine
members of the co-operative blatently fucked!
What precautions can be put in place to prevent this from happening?
ColinR
','f','',148,0,0);
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12047,'Tue Oct 20 15:07:04 1998','Re: Potential malicious activity',2,12046,'Posted on behalf of MylesC by TimP
Colin,
Good point. You don\'t even have to register, just find the PMS system.
I think we are hoping that people will be nice, despite all evidence
to the contrary :-(
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
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12048,'Tue Oct 20 15:16:15 1998','Re: Potential malicious activity',3,12046,'
>Hi Guys,
>I\'d like to raise a potential problem with the Paneris system which I only
>realised when I entered a new client of mine the other day for invoicing
>purposes.
>I noticed that a member of Paneris can view a list of all the clients in
>the database and thereby obtain full contact details of companies
>employing on a contractual/freelance basis who we have took time and
>effort to obtain.
>Whilst this has not presented a problem so far, it is possible that
>individuals can find the site, register as a member and then poach clients
>from the list with relative ease - thus leaving other, honest/genuine
>members of the co-operative blatently fucked!
>What precautions can be put in place to prevent this from happening?
There are no precautions available, and to attempt to put them in place will be more
trouble than it is worth.
The <a href=\'/rules.shtml\'>rules</a> state:
We will not do business with a customer\'s client without written permission from the customer.
We will not take work directly from a customer introduced to us by another member without written permission.
Customers introduced to a Paneris Member by another may not approach the second with work without written permission from the first.
Essentially any member who nicks another member\'s clients
is expelling themselves from paneris, as are any partners who accept such
work.
This has not been fully understood by some members or partners,
but it let it be understood now, <em><strong>nick a customer and you are
disqualifying yourself from Paneris</strong></em>.
yours
timp
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12049,'Tue Oct 20 15:28:29 1998','Re: Re: Potential malicious activity',3,12047,'
>Colin,
>
>Good point. You don\'t even have to register, just find the PMS system.
>
>I think we are hoping that people will be nice, despite all evidence
>to the contrary :-(
>
There is no evidence to the contrary, except the Iway debacle.
We have excellent mechanisms for tracing abuse, but no mechanisms
for discipline of offenders other than <em>naming and shaming</em>
and exclusion, both of which are a bit draconian.
If we move toward a legally binding contract of membership,
and/or a include our rules into future terms and conditions we
might make a difference, but in reality we have not got the resources
to sue anyone.
It might be possible to expect a returnable deposit which would be
forfeit in the case of abuse by members, but I don\'t think members
are a problem.
The problem would come with non-members undercutting us
and our clients accepting the non-paneris quotes.
The only way to protect ourselves from this is to ensure
that our bids are cheap and our delivery/way of working is more
attractive than can be offered by people outside of paneris.
We could of course, put in some authorisation :)
yours
TimP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12050,'Tue Oct 20 16:31:40 1998','Re: Re: Potential malicious activity',32,12047,'
Hi Myles,
I don\'t think that it is satisfactory to just hope that people will be
nice, and I would urge for some discussion on how this can be resolved in
such as way that it does not adversely affect other information sharing
policies which are deemed to be satisfactory to the group.
As it is, whenever I do work for Paneris members at present, I don\'t
actually need to know any of this information. So restricting access to
this information to specific users to record all their own clients and
have their own client list in their invoicing system (which could be
password protected) would not have any impact on our ability to work
together. It would simply keep personal information private, and you could
choose who you wanted to share it with.
ColinR
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12051,'Tue Oct 20 16:33:15 1998','Re: Re: Re: Potential malicious activity',2,12050,'
>Hi Myles,
>I don\'t think that it is satisfactory to just hope that people will be
>nice, and I would urge for some discussion on how this can be resolved in
>such as way that it does not adversely affect other information sharing
>policies which are deemed to be satisfactory to the group.
<a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?snip\'>snip</a>;
>ColinR
I know. I wasn\'t defending the current policy. I too would rather see
more security, but one of the ideals of PanEris is "Openness, openness,
openness". I have still need to be convinced that being open is always
the right policy. Not being secretive is closer to what we want. I think
that we need to take exactly these issues into account
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12052,'Tue Oct 20 16:47:07 1998','Re: Re: Re: Potential malicious activity',2,12049,'
>>Colin,
>>
>>Good point. You don\'t even have to register, just find the PMS system.
>>
>>I think we are hoping that people will be nice, despite all evidence
>>to the contrary :-(
>>
>There is no evidence to the contrary, except the Iway debacle.
I was talking about "outsiders", not Paneris members. I wouldn\'t like
to see a legally binding membership contracts or a deposit.
>The only way to protect ourselves from this is to ensure
>that our bids are cheap and our delivery/way of working is more
>attractive than can be offered by people outside of paneris.
Might work... (I suspect that most people don\'t really care how we
work so long as they get what they want at a reasonable price. If
what they want includes people working the way we do, then we\'re
sorted!). Or...
>We could of course, put in some authorisation :)
Why not. Members see everthing, partner see the stuff
and partners/members of the public see all their own stuff
or suitably editted versions (no contact info...)
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12053,'Tue Oct 20 17:00:43 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Potential malicious activity',3,12052,'
>>We could of course, put in some authorisation :)
>Why not. Members see everthing, partner see the stuff
>and partners/members of the public see all their own stuff
>or suitably editted versions (no contact info...)
Sounds good to me.
yours
TimP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12054,'Fri Oct 30 20:51:12 1998','Re: Quora (group bonding)',4,12043,'
> A term I would like to introduce is <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?egoless_programming\'>egoless programming</a>,
> a term that was used in the only successful coding team I have been a member of.
> The essense of it is that \'owned code\' is bad code.
> Just as the compiler is your friend so is the reviewer.
The difficulty here is that code has to be very good before
it is worth other people using it. With your own stuff
you know it, you know where it is likely to fall down,
and it automatically fits with your coding style.
When one is actually working on a project there is never
`time\' to make much of the code any good unless the
customer has a clear commitment to long term maintenance/
value added and has a clear understanding of the issues.
This means that the only unproblematic way that code sharing
and code reviews can happen is over the long term, with
a body of material which is updated over several projects.
Now in fact between Paneris, the PM system and Iglu we
have a pretty substantial body of code and also now the
leisure to review and share it. But I predict that unless
we work at it it will not happen. Perhaps we can play
a game in which we have to rip our code to shreds, and
everyone else has (honestly) to try to defend it :).
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12055,'Sat Oct 31 13:47:49 1998','Re: Re: Quora (group bonding)',3,12054,'
>Now in fact between Paneris, the PM system and Iglu we
>have a pretty substantial body of code and also now the
>leisure to review and share it. But I predict that unless
>we work at it it will not happen. Perhaps we can play
>a game in which we have to rip our code to shreds, and
>everyone else has (honestly) to try to defend it :).
Speaking, as I do, from the point of view of a designer in the Arts field,
I have always found "peer-group critique" to be invaluable in both terms
of individual and group development, as well as establishing when
something is _really_ right.
I also suspect that Paneris, as an organisation, is particularly well
placed to conduct this kind of procedure as full documentation on project
histories is available to all as a basis for critique.
I shall look forward to seeing how you proceed and expect that it will
provide a useful insight into the working methodologies of programmers for
the less technically bent among us.
ColinR
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12056,'Sat Oct 31 14:09:35 1998','Re: Re: Quora (group bonding)',3,12054,'
>> The essense of it is that \'owned code\' is bad code.
>> Just as the compiler is your friend so is the reviewer.
>The difficulty here is that code has to be very good before
>it is worth other people using it.
Not so, it just has to be good enough:)
>This means that the only unproblematic way that code sharing
>and code reviews can happen is over the long term, with
>a body of material which is updated over several projects.
>Now in fact between Paneris, the PM system and Iglu we
>have a pretty substantial body of code and also now the
>leisure to review and share it.
> But I predict that unless
>we work at it it will not happen.
>Perhaps we can play
>a game in which we have to rip our code to shreds, and
>everyone else has (honestly) to try to defend it :).
I believe that the best way is to hand over ownership of code.
This actually removes the slightly artificial \'review\' step.
I have battled with other peoples code, and as I do I change variable names
to reflect my understanding, add comments and try to
answer any queries left in the code.
I have been trying to get shared authorship to work on the Panris site,
and have worked on code originated by everyone except Myles,
though he left a trace of his passing on the muliboard code.
To get shared authorship to work people have to have the ability and
courage to take over where someone else has left off.
To have the ability to change someones code we have to ensure that
we all have the same tools and setup. We also need to have local test systems
to work upon.
I wish to see everyone with a local copy of paneris (the site and scripts).
My main stumbling block remains the lack of a working PMS system at 77 Hurst street,
which would enable me to review and revise the PMS system.
This is, from my perspective, even more important than a change control system.
yours
timP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12057,'Mon Nov 2 20:03:23 1998','retentive',4,0,'Posted on behalf of WilliamC by TimJ
This email is confidential. It may also be privileged or
otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal
rules. If you are not the intended recipient please notify
the sender IMMEDIATELY, by telephone on (44) 171 456 2000,
and delete the message from all locations in your computer;
you should not copy the email or use it for any purpose, or
disclose its contents to any other person: to do so may be
unlawful.
Email is an informal method of communication and is subject
to possible data corruption, either accidentally or on
purpose. For these reasons it will normally be inappropriate
to rely on advice contained in an email without obtaining
written confirmation of it.
A list of the names of the partners and their professional
qualifications is open to inspection at One Silk Street,
London EC2Y 8HQ. The partners are either solicitors or
registered foreign lawyers.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12058,'Mon Nov 2 20:04:41 1998','also retentive',1,12057,'
Email Disclaimer
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised.
If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution
or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited
and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or advice
contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in
the governing KPMG client engagement letter.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12059,'Mon Nov 2 20:07:18 1998','Re: retentive',4,12057,'
""BWAhahahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!""
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12060,'Mon Nov 2 20:07:20 1998','Re: also retentive',1,12058,'
And another.
The thing is that it isn\'t really the company, it\'s the culture, these sig lines have been introduced cos thay have to be and people have been stung. It really shows how the old established world order is totally incompatible with the new.
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12061,'Mon Nov 2 20:09:40 1998','Re: Re: also retentive',4,12060,'
The really bizarre thing, of course, is that they seem to
imply that innocent third parties such as your ISP
are responsible for eradicating email THEY have sent
mistakenly ...
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12062,'Mon Nov 2 21:48:03 1998','Interesting stuff, allegedly Microsoft-internal, about open source/Linux/etc.',4,0,'
Along with Eric Raymond\'s corrective comments it makes
a good overview of what Free Software is all about and
where it\'s going---even if it is a hoax ... who knows?
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12063,'Mon Nov 2 21:48:42 1998','er, P.S. ...',4,12062,'
http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/01/205212.shtml
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12064,'Tue Nov 3 14:45:59 1998','Changes',2,0,'
I have changed the aims and money pages (maybe we should
turn on automatic notification of changes again)
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12065,'Thu Nov 5 16:19:28 1998','Re: Legal Aid',3,12045,'
Chris,
Hi, this is Tim Pizey (we last met outside Tesco\'s in Oxford).
You said then that you would be interested to give us some advice upon how to
for ourselves into a corporation, and give us a legal once-over.
Yesterday we (paneris) had our AGM, from which it appears that we would like to become a
Guild. Do Guild\'s have any legal status?
I don\'t know whether you have the time, but if you do could you look
at our philosophy pages (http://www.paneris.co.uk/philosophy/)
and tell us whether we are going in the wrong direction?
yours
timP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12066,'Thu Nov 5 21:06:45 1998','this from edupage:',4,0,'
Great punchline:
INTEL\'S LEGACY FREE PC
Intel is pushing a new concept in PCs -- its Legacy Free PC doesn\'t look
like a PC at all, but rather like an orange and silver pyramid with the top
chopped off. Inside, it\'s different, too, relying on "plug-and-play"
universal serial bus ports
[...]
"...We have had this in the works for several years because we
have to change things," says the PC initiatives manager at Intel. "People
have come to expect a gray box, to expect a machine that crashes." (Wall
Street Journal 4 Nov 98)
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12067,'Thu Nov 5 21:07:47 1998','IBM\'s grand strategy',4,0,'
IBM\'S GRAND STRATEGY
Irving Wladawsky-Berger, general manager of IBM\'s Internet Division, defines
the difference between "e-commerce" and "e-business": "E-commerce is all
about buying and selling (on the Internet) and all the processes that
support buying and selling, such as advertising, marketing, customer
support, credit-card activities and the like. E-business, in addition to
encompassing e-commerce, includes lots of applications to help business run
more efficiently. It also includes more internal applications for linking
employees together and helping employees work more productively. E-business
also involves publishing and accessing information. So e-commerce and
e-business are two halves of the same coin. E-business is the grand
strategy, and e-commerce is an extremely important subset of e-business."
(Investor\'s Business Daily 4 Nov 98)
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12068,'Fri Nov 6 16:53:43 1998','another 2 docs have come out',1,12063,'
http://www.opensource.org/halloween3.html
also, some reasonable commentry on http://www.news.com/radio
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12069,'Fri Nov 6 21:30:08 1998','small is beautiful',4,0,'
Very nice survey of Taiwan in this week\'s Economist,
suggesting small firms which are basically contractors
to each other lead to exceptionally resilient economy,
flexibility outweighing any loss of scale-savings.
Taiwan has one limited company per eighteen people!
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12070,'Sun Nov 8 20:08:09 1998','Re: small is beautiful',3,12069,'
>Very nice survey of Taiwan in this week\'s Economist,
>suggesting small firms which are basically contractors
>to each other lead to exceptionally resilient economy,
>flexibility outweighing any loss of scale-savings.
>Taiwan has one limited company per eighteen people!
I listened to an R4 programme which explained that
Taiwan is still Feudal, and that the first thing a
businessman does is start a family, with a No 1 wife,
but as business goes so do the number of wives.
They are still way away from equality between the sexes
and other essentials of western business.
Face is still so important that business can easily
turn into vendetta - mmmmm maybe we are not so different after all.
I take the main point, and had arrived at it separately,
for the silliest of reasons :- you can only get 17 people
comfortably into the left hand frame of Paneris :)
It leads me to think that we must plan to bud.
At 18 (or similar magic number) Paneris-the-site should
perhaps be cloned.
If we were to agree on this how would CVS enable us to keep
two sites in step?
yours
timP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12071,'Mon Nov 9 0:30:41 1998','communism or capitalism on slashdot',4,0,'
Very germane, and quite interesting though I say so
myself :).
http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/08/1153226.shtml
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12072,'Mon Nov 9 9:26:48 1998','Re: Re: small is beautiful',1,12070,'
>It leads me to think that we must plan to bud.
>At 18 (or similar magic number) Paneris-the-site should
>perhaps be cloned.
surely you jest. I would like to see paneris as a thriving hive of 100\'s if not 1000\'s of participants. Is this not the dream?
Paneris is not a business, therefor more resilliant to the pressures that bring conventional businesses to the brink. Individual companies withing paneris will inevitably go under, but the community will live for ever!!!
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12073,'Mon Nov 9 15:11:08 1998','Re: Re: Re: small is beautiful',2,12072,'
>>It leads me to think that we must plan to bud.
>>At 18 (or similar magic number) Paneris-the-site should
>>perhaps be cloned.
>surely you jest. I would like to see paneris as a thriving
>hive of 100\'s if not 1000\'s of participants. Is this not
>the dream?
My thoughts are much the same. What advantages would there
be?
>Paneris is not a business, therefor more resilliant to the
>pressures that bring conventional businesses to the brink.
>Individual companies withing paneris will inevitably go
>under, but the community will live for ever!!!
Quite.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12074,'Mon Nov 9 16:37:16 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: small is beautiful',3,12073,'
>>>It leads me to think that we must plan to bud.
>>>At 18 (or similar magic number) Paneris-the-site should
>>>perhaps be cloned.
>>surely you jest. I would like to see paneris as a thriving
>>hive of 100\'s if not 1000\'s of participants. Is this not
>>the dream?
>My thoughts are much the same. What advantages would there
>be?
Paneris would be more like Taiwan, the SAS, Anderson Consulting, the IRA,
and anyone else who has ever successfully built a stable community.
>>Paneris is not a business, therefor more resilliant to the
>>pressures that bring conventional businesses to the brink.
>>Individual companies withing paneris will inevitably go
>>under, but the community will live for ever!!!
>Quite.
I think that the metaphor needs some tweaking:
if we are talking about the long term evolution of paneris then
we need to be using biological metaphors.
I am thinking in terms of cell division, or the division of
packs in African Wild Dogs, Lions etc, or indeed the asexual propagation
of plants.
The point is that groups implode above a certain size.
The IRA (and the Illuminati :) use 5 as their magic number,
other groups get up to 25, but beyond that you have to introduce
heirarchical concepts and role groupings to characterise the orgainisation.
If we \'just grow\' we are taking the oak tree paradigm,
which just gets bigger.
If we design propagation in from the start then we have a chance
that the Paneris species will survive forever.
I don\'t know how to put it more clearly....
Only things which replicate last...
PanerisII is a budding....
PanerisI will not die it will be joined in the ecosystem of
our attention by PanerisII
Chameleon, and I imagine most of our other customers,
do not want to \'join paneris\', but they would like our technology,
and some/most of our way of working. Similarly with Catalyst.
What I am asking is, given the need for budding, how are we to
implement it and (William) what can CVS do to help us?
yours
timP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12075,'Mon Nov 9 17:18:07 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: small is beautiful',1,12074,'
>>>>It leads me to think that we must plan to bud.
>>>>At 18 (or similar magic number) Paneris-the-site should
>>>>perhaps be cloned.
>>>surely you jest. I would like to see paneris as a thriving
>>>hive of 100\'s if not 1000\'s of participants. Is this not
>>>the dream?
>>My thoughts are much the same. What advantages would there
>>be?
>Paneris would be more like Taiwan, the SAS, Anderson Consulting, the IRA,
>and anyone else who has ever successfully built a stable community.
:) In my book, none of these examples are stable. I bet none of them are arround in 1000 years. I can\'t work out if you are taking the piss. How about the odd smiley?
I am also not convinced by the need for stability, I am more persuaded by a dynamic and chaotic tension, with the system continuously shifting it\'s ballance to adjust to the changing world. This is the realy metaphor of certainly the IRA and Taiwan, I know less about the SAS and Anderson Consulting. Anyway, consider termites...
>>Paneris is not a business, therefor more resilliant to the
>>>pressures that bring conventional businesses to the brink.
>>>Individual companies withing paneris will inevitably go
>>>under, but the community will live for ever!!!
>>Quite.
>I think that the metaphor needs some tweaking:
>if we are talking about the long term evolution of paneris then
>we need to be using biological metaphors.
>I am thinking in terms of cell division, or the division of
>packs in African Wild Dogs, Lions etc, or indeed the asexual propagation
>of plants.
I like the termite metaphor: millions building something greater than the sum of the parts. plenty of shagging going on.
>The point is that groups implode above a certain size.
>The IRA (and the Illuminati :) use 5 as their magic number,
>other groups get up to 25,
termite populations are massive.
>but beyond that you have to introduce
>heirarchical concepts and role groupings to characterise the orgainisation.
the nub of the argument. heirarchical concepts and role groupings only exist to facilitate accurate communication of information. we do not have this problem, and i would argue therefor that we are infinitely scalable.
>If we \'just grow\' we are taking the oak tree paradigm,
>which just gets bigger.
termites
>If we design propagation in from the start then we have a chance
>that the Paneris species will survive forever.
there are some termite hills that are millions of years old, the species evolves, the home gets bigger, but they don\'t move house.
>I don\'t know how to put it more clearly....
>Only things which replicate last...
>PanerisII is a budding....
>PanerisI will not die it will be joined in the ecosystem of
>our attention by PanerisII
consider it the rock on which we build our castle.
>Chameleon, and I imagine most of our other customers,
>do not want to \'join paneris\', but they would like our technology,
>and some/most of our way of working. Similarly with Catalyst.
we have layed out the 4 levels of membership and commitment. Chameleon and Catalyst are (i assume) Partners of Paneris.
>What I am asking is, given the need for budding, how are we to
>implement it and (William) what can CVS do to help us?
I am still not convinced that paneris is not infinitely scalable. After all, there is only one God.
TimJ
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12076,'Mon Nov 9 17:56:06 1998','Re: communism or capitalism on slashdot',3,12071,'
>Very germane, and quite interesting though I say so
>myself :).
>http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/08/1153226.shtml
Nice article, I feel that Communism is a red herring.
The essense, which I think is well known, is that
replication of bits is very cheap so atom based models
are outmoded. The OSS model fits the situation much better,
and M$ has no right to its billions, Bill was just at
the right place at the right time and the market would bear it,
largely because there was no competition.
If I was M$ I would be bricking it.
yours
timp
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12077,'Tue Nov 10 13:19:41 1998','Paneris Organisation',3,0,'
TimJ,
can you update the <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/philosophy/organisation.shtml\'>Organisation</a>
page to reflect you thinking on the Paneris Ladder?
yours
TimP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12078,'Tue Nov 10 15:42:24 1998','Action Colin re Corporate Image ',3,0,'
Colin,
In the minutes of the AGM you were actioned to do a
complete Corporate Image job on Paneris.
I am not clear whether you are aware of the action or are prepared to take it on...
You, I am sure, know much more about Corporate styling than any of us,
but here are my thoughts anyway:
We need a logo which is easily scaled from a one inch square for business cards
upto Advertising Hoarding size :)
The styling will be applied to business cards, the web site and
possibly letterheads and compliment slips.
I think we would like to have the screen based logo animated.
My personal design guide would be that the logo should borrow imagery both
from the Mandelbrot set and from Greek Mythology (the Kalisti Apple).
Myles says: keywords: non-heirarchical and competant.
Examples of these images are :
http://www.onlineart.com/2001G.htm
http://www.junkpile.demon.co.uk/images/chao.gif
http://www.junkpile.demon.co.uk/images/apple.gif
http://his.com/~emerald7/hootga/con.gif - shows howto spell Eris in greek
http://www.maui.net/~discord/eris/
the ring of fnords
http://www.bolthy.com/fnord/
I realise that this may be getting too discordian for some
members of Paneris, but I like it.
love (fnord)
TimP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12079,'Tue Nov 10 19:06:09 1998','Re: Action Colin re Corporate Image ',32,12078,'
> Colin,
> In the minutes of the AGM you were actioned to do a
> complete Corporate Image job on Paneris.
> I am not clear whether you are aware of the action or are
> prepared to take it on...
I haven\'t yet had time to read the full minutes, but I recall
this being dicussed. I\'m quite happy to take this on as I am
unable to contibute to the CGI development of Paneris, but
have the necessary skills to deal with this aspect.
I think it would also be interested to do a corporate identity
for a non-corporate.
>You, I am sure, know much more about Corporate styling than any of us,
>but here are my thoughts anyway:
>We need a logo which is easily scaled from a one inch square for business cards
>upto Advertising Hoarding size :)
No problem - thought you had me there didn\'t ya! :p
I always supply this as part of a corporate ID design, simply
because clients are often vague about, or have not anticipated,
the logo\'s final application.
>The styling will be applied to business cards, the web site and
>possibly letterheads and compliment slips.
No doubt you will wish to put the letterheads through your printers?
This will mean choosing an appropriate paper stock which not only
conotes something about the philosophy/approach/emotion of
PanEris, but also doesn\'t shead lint all over the rollers and screw
up the mechanics.
>I think we would like to have the screen based logo animated.
Why?
>My personal design guide would be that the logo should borrow imagery both
>from the Mandelbrot set and from Greek Mythology (the Kalisti Apple).
>Myles says: keywords: non-heirarchical and competant.
I recall discussing my feeling on an image which conotes an
organic/evolutionary process, which might well fit with the
Mandelbrot. However, I would be cautious in my application of
this as computer "nerds" are very fond of Mandelbrot sets,
and often use them on their websites. The meaning might be lost
on the casual observer.
>Examples of these images are :
>http://www.onlineart.com/2001G.htm
>http://www.junkpile.demon.co.uk/images/chao.gif
>http://www.junkpile.demon.co.uk/images/apple.gif
>http://his.com/~emerald7/hootga/con.gif - shows howto spell Eris in greek
>http://www.maui.net/~discord/eris/
>the ring of fnords
>http://www.bolthy.com/fnord/
>I realise that this may be getting too discordian for some
>members of Paneris, but I like it.
Useful stuff there. I\'ve started trauling through the Discordian
sites and perhaps we can discuss this further when I see you next.
Some firmer ground on the philosophy from all concerned would be
helpful too. I changed some stuff the other day but no one\'s
noticed yet by the looks of it. :)
ColinR
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12080,'Thu Nov 12 12:46:42 1998','Re: Re: Action Colin re Corporate Image ',1,12079,'
>I think it would also be interested to do a corporate identity
>for a non-corporate.
agree, I think that we do need something corporate, the site and us need to look profesional.
>No doubt you will wish to put the letterheads through your printers?
>This will mean choosing an appropriate paper stock which not only
>conotes something about the philosophy/approach/emotion of
>PanEris, but also doesn\'t shead lint all over the rollers and screw
>up the mechanics.
Don\'t worry too much about paper. I print about 3 letters per year (and I suspect most of paneris have printeres that are equally infrequently used).
>>I think we would like to have the screen based logo animated.
>
>Why?
it was may idea, and I can\'t justify it.
>>My personal design guide would be that the logo should borrow imagery both
>>from the Mandelbrot set and from Greek Mythology (the Kalisti Apple).
>>Myles says: keywords: non-heirarchical and competant.
>I recall discussing my feeling on an image which conotes an
>organic/evolutionary process, which might well fit with the
>Mandelbrot. However, I would be cautious in my application of
>this as computer "nerds" are very fond of Mandelbrot sets,
>and often use them on their websites. The meaning might be lost
>on the casual observer.
indeed. I am not sure about the Mandelbrot sets, and am dead againsed anything based on Greek Mythology.
I would work from:
non-heirarchical, competant, community.
>>Examples of these images are :
>>http://www.onlineart.com/2001G.htm
>>http://www.junkpile.demon.co.uk/images/chao.gif
>>http://www.junkpile.demon.co.uk/images/apple.gif
>>http://his.com/~emerald7/hootga/con.gif - shows howto spell Eris in greek
umm, not impressed by any of these.
>>http://www.maui.net/~discord/eris/
nice site
>>I realise that this may be getting too discordian for some
>>members of Paneris, but I like it.
yep, it\'s all very cool, but not for defining a \'corporate\' identity.
>Useful stuff there. I\'ve started trauling through the Discordian
>sites and perhaps we can discuss this further when I see you next.
>Some firmer ground on the philosophy from all concerned would be
>helpful too. I changed some stuff the other day but no one\'s
>noticed yet by the looks of it. :)
!!I have not beeen notified !!
TimP, can you clarify the aliasing situation. I recently posted a message on PHP and was expecting william to reply, is he really on the paneri@i-way.co.uk alias?
Tim
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12081,'Thu Nov 12 21:09:04 1998','Keyhaven presentation',1,0,'
Boys,
Sorry it is late, but I have rehashed the minutes to be a presentation document for Keyhaven tomorrow morning. If you have any comments please post them.
Cheers
timJ
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12082,'Fri Nov 13 8:18:57 1998','Re: Keyhaven presentation',4,12081,'
To add as OSS vs Microsoft reading:
www.unix-vs-nt.org
if you haven\'t seen it already.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12083,'Wed Nov 25 17:32:53 1998','Re: Keyhaven presentation',1,12081,'
I have just written up what I actually said. It includes a diagram.....
/philosophy/10minpres.html
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12084,'Wed Nov 25 17:37:57 1998','this edition brought to you by the letter `e\'',4,12083,'
Cool ... but if you write
> 5. What use is Paneris to You?
>
> Competance - how good we are.
people are going to be more amused than convinced.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12085,'Wed Nov 25 17:46:56 1998','Re: this edition brought to you by the letter `e\'',1,12084,'
>Cool ... but if you write
>> 5. What use is Paneris to You?
>>
>> Competance - how good we are.
>people are going to be more amused than convinced.
just checking you are paying attention :)
spellchecked version now up
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12086,'Wed Dec 2 15:49:42 1998','whilst waiting for altavista to return,',1,0,'
I thought I\'d use the: AltaVista knows the answer to this question: What does the computing term <dropdown> mean?
facility.
you get this by doing a search for say "web site".
anyway, i looked up WYSIAIG, followed by YAFIYGI., which led me to this doc:
http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?Real+Programmers
entitled:
Real Programmers Don\'t Use PASCAL
which is a good laugh.
Just thought i\'d tell you all.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12087,'Fri Dec 4 19:00:52 1998','Guild of Naive Programmers',4,0,'
Are we interested in the Guild of Ethical Programmers?
http://slashdot.org/features/98/12/04/1158251.shtml
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12088,'Tue Dec 8 15:35:01 1998','Re: Guild of Naive Programmers',3,12087,'
>Are we interested in the Guild of Ethical Programmers?
>http://slashdot.org/features/98/12/04/1158251.shtml
I would say not.
I find that there is a split in the <em>white Hat</em>
camp between openness/privacy.
Scratch most American Libertarians and you find a
small government, laissez-faire capitalist.
This fact alone is enough to make me knee-jerk into
an anti-privacy stance, but ....
Certainly when I think of <em>Ethical Programmers</em>
the issue of most import is not the protection of
privacy (privacy and priviledge are too inter-connected for me to disentangle).
I feel that the <em>Ethical Dimesion</em> to Paneris is
connected to empowering the computationally excluded.
I believe in <strong>Openness</strong>, the problem
with <em>Big Brother</em> is not the invasion of privacy
but that the information held by organisations is not
open to inspection.
This argument was put well in Wired some years ago with regard to public access to CCTV images.
Another Wired argued that <strong>you own your own bits</strong>.
The <em>principle of permission</em> doesn\'t help us here,
as it is unlikely that we could ever get or administer
pemissions for images gathered in public spaces.
Having said all of the above I expect that the Guild will
discover some interesting projects :)
yours
timP
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12089,'Thu Jan 7 20:46:36 1999','Re: Re: Re: also retentive',1,12061,'
This is autogenerated retentiveness:
I will be out of the office until 1/2/99. If you need to speak to someone urgently re: Laptops please contact the following people:
ITOS related issues: Bob Palmer
Training related issues: Alistair Thorn
Sales releasted issues: Clare Fardon
For all other queries please contact Lin Westcott on ext 4016.
regards
Darrell Hawkes
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','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12090,'Wed Jan 20 2:27:54 1999','In Association with Amazon.co.uk ?',3,0,'
Boys,
I have just signed the paneris site up to Amazon.co.uk.
Do you think we will ever get the &gbp;100 to trigger a payment?
Should I have asked first ?
Anyway, this is what they said:
<blockquote>
From: associates@amazon.co.uk
X-Envelope-To: <tim@paneris.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:19:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: de-uk-online-1.amazon.com: nobody set sender to associates@amazon.co.uk using -f
To: tim@paneris.co.uk
Subject: Amazon.co.uk: Thank you for your application
Thank you for submitting your application to participate in the
Amazon.co.uk Associates Programme. Your application has been
temporarily approved and we will contact you by e-mail once we
have fully reviewed and approved your application.
*Important*: Please save this email message--you will
need some of the information here to properly set up your
links to Amazon.co.uk.
You may now set up your Web site using your unique Associates ID. You
can use this ID when linking your sponsoring Web site into our
catalogue--detailed instructions are included at the end of this
message.
Your unique Associates ID is: thepaneriscollab
USING THE AMAZON.CO.UK BRAND NAME
As you may already know, Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk have received a
great deal of very positive press coverage since the sites were
launched. From The Financial Times to The Wall Street Journal,
mainstream and industry press alike have helped make the Amazon.com
and Amazon.co.uk brand names very well-known among Internet sites.
Our extensive advertising campaigns reach users of many major Web
services and search engines and we have run print ads in newspapers
such as The Guardian and The Independent. You should consider using
not only our name, but also one of the logos or banners found on our
site at:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/subst/partners/associates/assoc-art.html
so that your visitors have the chance to recognise our name as a
familiar and trustworthy Internet retailer working in association with you.
SUGGESTIONS FOR SUCCESSFUL PRESENTATION:
We\'ve put a page on our Web site filled with suggestions for
building a great online store. These tips are taken from
our most successful Associates and we highly recommend
reading them. Follow the link on our home page to "Join
Associates" and from there link to "Store Building Tips".
You can also connect directly at this URL:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/subst/partners/associates/assoc-success-tips.html
HOW TO LINK INTO OUR CATALOGUE:
There are three ways to link to Amazon.co.uk
1. Link to our home page.
2. Link to us with an Amazon.co.uk Associates search box.
3. Link to individual products you recommend.
You can use any sort of graphics, descriptions and Amazon-authored
review material when describing items on your Web site. You may add
or remove these links at any time without our prior approval, as long
as they follow the prescribed format we will detect them
automatically when they are used.
We encourage you to get started immediately by linking to
our home page. We\'ll start tracking your click-throughs and
orders once we have reviewed and approved your application.
You can have this working while you set up the Amazon.co.uk
search box link, allowing your visitors to search the Amazon.co.uk
catalogue, or the Individual Product links that allow you to earn up
to 15% in referral fees for books and 5% for other items.
************************************************************
It is best to cut and paste the HTML examples from this
e-mail to your HTML document. If the programme you are using
to read this e-mail presents the following HTML examples in a
difficult to read format, you should visit the following URL
to see how to set your links up correctly. This URL
contains the linking instructions as well as examples of how
the links will look on your Web site.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/subst/partners/associates/assoc-ways-to-link.html
************************************************************
1. Link to our home page.
This is the fastest way to get started. Start earning
referral fees while you set up your online store. Choose an
Amazon.co.uk Associates logo from our logos and graphics
library at:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/subst/partners/associates/assoc-art.html/
The logo you choose, used in conjunction with the Amazon.co.uk
Home Page linking format, will allow you to earn 5% referral
fees for all items purchased as a direct result of your
link. Please note that the "home.gif" is an example of one
of the graphics you might save to your computer\'s hard drive
to use with the home page linking format.
Amazon.co.uk home page linking format:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect-home/thepaneriscollab
Here\'s how the link might look in your HTML document:
<a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect-home/thepaneriscollab">
<img src="home.gif" border="0" alt="In Association with amazon.co.uk">
</a>
Of course, you can use any of the logos provided on the web
page above: "home.gif" is just one example.
2. Link to us with an Amazon.co.uk Associates search box.
Using the Associate search box linking method, you can place an
Amazon.co.uk search box on your site. Visitors to your site will be
able to use our powerful search engine to find whatever product they
may want. You earn 5% referral fees on every item they
purchase. Don\'t forget to grab the Associates search box
graphic from the linking instructions page. Just place the
pointer over the "Amazon.co.uk" logo graphic in the search box
linking example and save it on your computer\'s hard drive.
Here\'s an example of how the Amazon.co.uk Associates search
box link should look:
<FORM METHOD="get"
ACTION="http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/external-search">
<TABLE BORDER="1" CELLPADDING="0" CELLSPACING="0" ALIGN="center">
<TR>
<TD BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
<INPUT TYPE="radio" NAME="mode" VALUE="books" CHECKED>Books
</TD>
<TD ROWSPAN="2" VALIGN="top" ALIGN="center" bgcolor="#ffffff"
width="55%">
Enter keywords...
<center>
<INPUT TYPE="text" NAME="keyword" SIZE=20 VALUE="">
<INPUT TYPE=hidden NAME=tag VALUE=thepaneriscollab>
</center>
<INPUT TYPE="submit" BORDER=0 VALUE="Search" NAME="Search">
<BR>
<BR>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD VALIGN="top" ALIGN="center" BGCOLOR="#000000" >
<A HREF="http://www.Amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect-home/thepaneriscollab">
<IMG SRC="logo.gif" BORDER="0" VSPACE="0" ALT="Amazon.co.uk logo"></A>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
</FORM>
3. Link to individual products you recommend.
This is where you can let your expertise on your subject
area shine. You also earn up to 15% in referral fees for
books and 5% for any other product ordered as a
result of a direct link! Featuring specific books and other
items with personal recommendations is a great way to
encourage a purchase. Visitors will return to your Web site
if your recommendations are well written, thoughtful and
honest. Customers appreciate objective third-party opinions
from experts in the field that only Associate members can
provide.
"ASIN" stands for "Amazon Standard Item Number."
Every item in our catalogue has a unique ASIN.
For books, the ASIN is the same number as the ISBN.
Amazon.co.uk Associates Individual Product Linking format:
http://www.Amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0701160411/thepaneriscollab
Here\'s an example of how the link might look in your HTML
document:
<a href="http://www.Amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0701160411/thepaneriscollab">
Order Toni Morrison\'s <i>Paradise</i> Today!</a>
Remember--you may change your listings whenever you like.
You won\'t need our permission and it\'s not even necessary to
advise us of the changes--they\'ll be automatically detected
and commissioned properly.
Of course, the ASIN will change for each item in our
catalogue. Do not include any spaces or dashes in the ASIN
when making these links. Also, make sure you check our
catalogue first--we can only sell what\'s listed there.
VERY IMPORTANT: If you copy the URL of a page from our Web
site and modify it to fit the format above, be sure to
remove the 19-character shopping basket ID that appears at
the end of the bookmarked or copied URL. Your store code
should immediately follow the ASIN number as in the example
above. If you leave this in your modified links, they will
not work properly. You must also add our domain name to each link. Replace
all "/exec" with "http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec" and that\'s it.
------------------------------------------------------------
The information we have about your Web site is as follows:
Contact e-mail Address:
tim@paneris.co.uk
Contact address:
Tim Pizey
77 Hurst Street
Oxford
Oxon
OX4 1HA
Tel: 01865 721131
Payee e-mail address:
tim@paneris.co.uk
Payee address:
Tim Pizey T/A Paneris
77 Hurst Street
Oxford
Oxon
OX4 1HA
Tel: 01865 721131
Sponsoring Web site URL:
http://www.paneris.co.uk/
-------------------------
If you have any questions, you can e-mail us at
associates@amazon.co.uk and we\'ll be happy to help.
Once again, thanks for your application.
Yours sincerely,
Simon Murdoch
Managing Director
Amazon.co.uk
http://www.amazon.co.uk
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12091,'Wed Jan 20 2:47:24 1999','Re: In Association with Amazon.co.uk ?',3,12090,'
The new paneris tag <AmazonISBN>ISBN</AmazonISBN> will enable you to insert a link to purchase a book of
that ISBN. (no dashes allowed).
Which is nice.
Tim
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12092,'Wed Jan 20 9:07:03 1999','Re: In Association with Amazon.co.uk ?',1,12090,'
Why are we supporting Amazon? Do we like them? Do we think they are going to be a casualty of the great crash of \'99?
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12093,'Wed Jan 20 10:07:53 1999','Re: In Association with Amazon.co.uk ?',2,12090,'
>Boys,
>I have just signed the paneris site up to Amazon.co.uk.
>Do you think we will ever get the &gbp;100 to trigger a payment?
No :-)
>Should I have asked first ?
Don\'t know. Why have we signed up, though? Do we get
anything other than the chance to plug a large company
and the promise of some cash?
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12094,'Thu Jan 21 19:55:09 1999','MS Catch 22',1,0,'
Whilst setting up my new box:
I attempt to install Service Pack 4, only to be told that I must have at least IE3 installed to do so. soo....
I attempt to install IE4 only to be told that I must have Service Pack 3 installed to do so. soo...
fuckwhits.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12095,'Mon Mar 8 18:06:45 1999','ip',1,0,'
Keyhaven, have a good one:
Their old supplier of web design (www.shiftf7.co.uk) have threatened them with legal action over the ip rights to the javascript used on a couple of sites (http://www.keyhaven.com/home.html and http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/home.html). Keyhaven paid a lot of money for the design of these sites, but shiftf7 seem to think that the javascript is not included.
The obviously havn\'t got a leg to stand on, but to even care that much about 30 lines of javascript is daft. i figure "the devil makes work for idle hands", and they are going bust.
Anyway i offered to replace the script with our own code, but how can I prove it\'s mine as it will look very similar to the shiftf7 stuff. the only differences i can think of introducing are changing the function and variable names. the code is too trivial to put our own mark on the structure of it.
has anyone got any experience in this? on a wider perspective, what rights can people expect to wield over published source code?
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12096,'Mon Mar 8 18:54:55 1999','Re: ip',28,12095,'
>Keyhaven, have a good one:
>Their old supplier of web design (www.shiftf7.co.uk) have threatened them with legal action over the ip rights to the javascript used on a couple of sites (http://www.keyhaven.com/home.html and http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/home.html). Keyhaven paid a lot of money for the design of these sites, but shiftf7 seem to think that the javascript is not included.
It would be interesting to know why Shiftf7 think that the javascript was not included as part of the rest of the web design (not ownership of the code - i.e. the copyright - merely a license to use the code in the way that one would expect it to be used in the web design) - there is something called "non-derogation of grant" which provides that if you sell something to someone you cannot interfere with a purchaser\'s right to use that article for the rest of its natural life. This principle isn\'t normally applied to IP matters but it has been once (by the House of Lords in British Leyland v. Armstrong a case concerning the copyright protection for exhaust pipes).
>The obviously havn\'t got a leg to stand on, but to even care that much about 30 lines of javascript is daft. i figure "the devil makes work for idle hands", and they are going bust.
>Anyway i offered to replace the script with our own code, but how can I prove it\'s mine as it will look very similar to the shiftf7 stuff. the only differences i can think of introducing are changing the function and variable names. the code is too trivial to put our own mark on the structure of it.
The recognised technique for doing this sort of thing is to use a clean room approach. You have to find someone who hasn\'t seen the code. Then you write down the functions which you want the code to perform and give them to the programmer still without showing him the actual code which you want to reconstruct. Then test the code and check it does what its supposed to (and check its not identical to the original code or you will have a hard time convincing the court that you actually used the clean room approach, however you should be able to overcome this problem if it really is trivial by documenting what you are doing - the courts will generally believe someone if they are telling the truth). This method should overcome copyright (which I am assuming is the IP right being asserted by shiftf7) it will not work if they have managed to get patent protection for the code.
>has anyone got any experience in this? on a wider perspective, what rights can people expect to wield over published source code?
Copyright mainly but also possibly patent protection provided they apply for it before publicly disclosing the code and provided they have a clever patent attorney in anywhere but the US.
Hope this helps
Simeon
p.s. just changing a few function names won\'t help. As the name suggests, to avoid copyright you have to avoid copying the work in question. Copying it and then changing it a bit still means it was copied.
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12097,'Tue Mar 9 21:37:06 1999','Re: Re: ip',33,12096,'Posted on behalf of Ed Ross by TimJ
Tim,
Thanks for the info on IP. We are sending a strong letter!
Ed
Keyhaven
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12098,'Thu Apr 22 15:58:38 1999','prices',1,0,'
How busy is everyone?
I\'m very busy, and likely to let down customers (only i-way :) in the near future.
supply and demand indicates that i should put up my prices.
this raises loads of issues:
1) should we charge differently for html / data entry / design / programming / consultancy
2) should we as individuals charge different rates
3) we could up the rate for paneris overall to say £50 or £60 ph, and let the non-programming work drop off. what would this mean for non-programming members of paneris? Would we like to narrow the niche of paneris to "providing community services for web programmers" (instead of the broader "web developers")? what about the "one stop shop"?
4) what about the "living wage" principal.
5) where are we going? (you don\'t have to answer this one)
timj
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12099,'Thu Apr 22 21:56:54 1999','Re: prices',4,12098,'
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> How busy is everyone?
Bloody busy. My variances are not positive definite and my
log likelihoods are all NaNs (that\'s BAD) :-).
> I\'m very busy, and likely to let down customers (only i-way :) in the near future.
If it\'s something I can do it\'s worth remembering that I am worth
asking if it\'s short and pays well enough, which leads into the
pricing discussion ...
This is tricky.
What I think <B>is</B> clear enough is that in negotiations with
external capitalists, shareholders, option-laden directors etc., the
available choices of pricing policy can be summarised as "supply and
demand" and "get ripped off and be shafted". At this level I HATE the
idea of any project (joint or individual) being costed any lower than
we can get away with. It\'s just a moral <TT>ClassCastException</TT>
and it does noone any good except people who are explicitly taking
risks in the hope of doing well. They would think we were quite,
quite mad, if they bothered to think about it at all.
[If some trade union came up with a credible plan to restrain wages
in the interests of keeping unemployment down, and/or to finance a
minimum wage scheme for the low-paid, then we would have a duty to
support it; but that\'s not the situation (nor is it likely to be in
this industry---rates will fall on their own when unemployment
threatens ...).]
In fact your (1)--(4) <B>are not dilemmas</B> when it comes to
external pricing, either for individuals or, if we consider only the
overall costing, for collaborative projects. Even if we have to give
hourly breakdowns to make up that number, we know they\'re inaccurate
and presumably they\'re not binding once they\'ve handed over the dosh.
Most urgently I feel that if Paneris standard rates are causing us
overall to draw in less money than we would otherwise, then the
solution is to abolish them (whatever headline target figure or range
we mention on the website). So ...
> supply and demand indicates that i should put up my prices.
... do it.
Turning to internal pricing---how we in practice carve up the money
we make on a joint project---things are much murkier.
Within the Paneris microcosm, we are to a large extent a We, to
that extent the relevance of the concept of "the going rate" is
vitiated, and we have the opportunity to operate a jointly rewarding,
fair, convenient, stable, relaxing and generally Good setup. (In this
sense we have a closer relationship than do the salaried employees of
a company.)
So up to a point, the principal is equal pay for equal effort, pro
rata. Granted, it seems fair to pay people something for PMing and
attracting new work. But any attempt to micro-manage the
apportionment of $$$ is going to miss the point. (Of course it would
also founder on the insuperable problems of productivity metrics and
relationship breakdown.)
I say "up to a point" because I must admit I\'m not willing to share
a project fee equally with a sixth former doing data entry. If there
is a clear and big difference in the externally quotable rate for
different kinds of work then I would rather we reflected that---in a
moderated form, since we are in the fortunate position of not having
to exploit people---in our internal arrangements.
Personally I would be happy paying good designers at least as much
as programmers, so maybe there is a "could I do that?" factor in there
somewhere ... or perhaps: going with absolutely equal pay would only
be appropriate if Paneris were a commune (a closer community than it
is), or if we believed in unilateral communism (which I don\'t).
So in the end there is a compromise. I hope we can identify clear
categories of work which command broadly similar fees in the external
market, and pay all the participants on a project working in the same
capacity at the same rate, unless that seems obviously unfair on
someone. On the supply side it would then be a guild-ish system,
though as I argued above I think we should be entirely opportunistic
on the pricing side.
','f','',148,0,0);
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12100,'Fri Apr 23 0:55:23 1999','Re: prices',3,12098,'
>How busy is everyone?
Busy enough :)
>supply and demand indicates that i should put up my prices.
>this raises loads of issues:
>1) should we charge differently for html / data entry /design / programming / consultancy
Yes
>2) should we as individuals charge different rates
Yes
>3) we could up the rate for paneris overall to say £50 or £60 ph, and let the non-programming work drop off.
yes
> what would this mean for non-programming members of paneris?
>Would we like to narrow the niche of paneris to "providing community services for web programmers" (instead of the broader "web developers")? what about the "one stop shop"?
I don\'t think anyone ever bought <em>the one stop shop</em>
we have always charged more for programmers than designers.
>4) what about the "living wage" principal.
???????
>5) where are we going? (you don\'t have to answer this one)
Up
When I have ported an Access db to Unix/Postgres/Java
then I will be at the highest elevation to date.
If we come back to Chippy\'s (para)phrase \'a market for small web jobs\' the answer is obvious.
You might have managed to negotiate a standard rate for all your clients, but Catalyst still pay me 32gbp.
What I am interested in is Paneris embodying a
\'rate for this job\' mechanism.
Today my rate for new work starting tommorrow is 6000gbp
for the first hour, 120gbp for subsequent hours, as I am
otherwise engaged, but in two weeks time that will change.
I would <B>Love</B> to take on guaranteed work starting May 20 at 40gbp.
At the moment the PMS only deals with Time and Invoicing,
but there is no connection.
I would like to see jobs being taken on at an explicitly stated/negotiated rate.
At the moment we don\'t even have a mechanism for publicising
what additional work we have, let alone allocating it
or quoting for it.
love
Tim
','f','',148,0,0);
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12101,'Mon Apr 26 13:45:56 1999','Re: Re: prices',2,12099,'
>multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> > How busy is everyone?
>Bloody busy. My variances are not positive definite and my
>log likelihoods are all NaNs (that\'s BAD) :-).
Is NaN a statistics thing, or are you doing it in java?
Confused,
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12102,'Tue Jun 1 13:00:18 1999','VAT',3,0,'
TimJ just sprung something on me, with a potential solution.
He became VAT registered some time ago, and assures me that I will need to in the near future.
Up until now the Paneris internal rate has been 32gbp,
ie 80% of 40gbp.
TimJ now informs me that for him the price has VAT on top.
To get around this, and not give the VATman the difference,
he suggests a barter register for trading between VAT registered and non-VAT registered members.
This seems like a useful addition to the PMS.
What do you think?
yours
TimP
','f','',148,0,0);
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12103,'Tue Jun 1 13:59:22 1999','Re: VAT',2,12102,'
>TimJ just sprung something on me, with a potential solution.
>He became VAT registered some time ago, and assures me that I will need to in the near future.
>Up until now the Paneris internal rate has been 32gbp,
>ie 80% of 40gbp.
>TimJ now informs me that for him the price has VAT on top.
Eh? If you get a contract and work out that the hourly rate
is £40 (<swoon>) then you take 10% management fee and 10%
finder\'s fee, leaving a £32 for developers. If that developer
is VAT registered then they will get £27.23 for themselves
and £4.77 for the taxman. Why isn\'t this right? How can a
developer charge more than the hourly rate for each hour?
OK, I\'ve just twigged. When TimP is VAT registered then rather
than keeping the whole amount of VAT for the project in his
special bank account, he can pass on the VAT associated
with TimJ\'s payments to him to pay, in which case TimJ gets
17.5% more than me. But what happens when TimP isn\'t registerd, like now. Does the scenario above still apply?
>To get around this, and not give the VATman the difference,
>he suggests a barter register for trading between VAT registered and non-VAT registered members.
Seems OK so long as we work out when these accounts will be
settled. I am not VAT registered and have not, so far, used
anyone else on my (small) projects, so I\'m not sure how much
I would use it. This is another way of saying that I would
need to be paid for project work, rather than have it chalked up on the slate :-) But obviously, things can change!
>This seems like a useful addition to the PMS.
>What do you think?
Sounds cool.
>yours
>TimP
Myles
','f','',148,0,0);
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12104,'Tue Jun 1 14:59:29 1999','Re: Re: VAT',1,12103,'
>>TimJ just sprung something on me, with a potential solution.
>>He became VAT registered some time ago, and assures me that I will need to in the near future.
>>Up until now the Paneris internal rate has been 32gbp,
>>ie 80% of 40gbp.
>>TimJ now informs me that for him the price has VAT on top.
>Eh? If you get a contract and work out that the hourly rate
>is £40 (<swoon>) then you take 10% management fee and 10%
>finder\'s fee, leaving a £32 for developers. If that developer
>is VAT registered then they will get £27.23 for themselves
>and £4.77 for the taxman. Why isn\'t this right? How can a
>developer charge more than the hourly rate for each hour?
umm,
everyone else who contracts hoop get charged £40 or £32 per hour (ex VAT). This obviously makes it more expensive for non vat registered people/companies. VAT reg people will be able to offset the vat against services they supply. As you point out, this plays havoc with the money split for paneris.
>OK, I\'ve just twigged. When TimP is VAT registered then rather
>than keeping the whole amount of VAT for the project in his
>special bank account, he can pass on the VAT associated
>with TimJ\'s payments to him to pay, in which case TimJ gets
>17.5% more than me. But what happens when TimP isn\'t registerd, like now. Does the scenario above still apply?
well..
>>To get around this, and not give the VATman the difference,
>>he suggests a barter register for trading between VAT registered and non-VAT registered members.
>Seems OK so long as we work out when these accounts will be
>settled. I am not VAT registered and have not, so far, used
>anyone else on my (small) projects, so I\'m not sure how much
>I would use it. This is another way of saying that I would
>need to be paid for project work, rather than have it chalked up on the slate :-) But obviously, things can change!
this seems the best mechanism to avoid giving the vat man money.
i would suggest that accounts should be settled at the year end (05/04). one question, will these time credits be caclulated in hours or in time? To illustrate the dilema:
i work for timp for 10 hours on a project that pays £22 per hour (ie PFE). Later in the year timp works for 10 hours for me on a project that pays £32 per hour.
under the credit scheme, are we even, or do i owe timp £100?
>>This seems like a useful addition to the PMS.
>>What do you think?
>Sounds cool.
there are another couple of mechanism to consider:
1) one i have used with keith when i was not vat registered. was to split the vat between us (paying 8.75% each). this is not too clever as the vat man still gets paid. rather this just spreads the burden.
2) for projects where some of the time is vattable (ie where i am involved), hoop could do the billing (and therefor add vat to the entire amount). This is not very clever as it will increasingly look like hoop is employing everyone else with disasterous tax consequences.
3) everyone who brings in work gets vat registered. this may happen soon anyway, as the limit you can earn without being is about £40K. being vat registered is actually a good idea (even if you don\'t earn £40K). it means that all bills and expences are effectively 17.5% cheaper (think of you phone bill, computer kit etc). the only difficulty is that you have to make sure your accounts are up-to-date quarterly (and be able to run a simple report in quicken, fill out a form and write a big cheque) - not too much trouble.
my favorite option is number 3, but we can use a credit scheme until you guys get registered (after that we can settle without loosing out).
timj
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12105,'Tue Jun 1 17:03:14 1999','Re: VAT',102,12102,'
[snip]
>To get around this, and not give the VATman the difference,
>he suggests a barter register for trading between VAT registered and non-VAT registered members.
>This seems like a useful addition to the PMS.
Sounds alright to me. Let me have some specifics how this would work.
TTFN
','f','',148,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
149,'leads','Paneris leads',8149,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/leads/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/leads/',2);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12106,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','New direction',3,0,'
I woke up this morning .....
and thought whay don\'t we target Builders/Archtects?
I reckon we need to get VRML, but other wise it should be
straight forward and relatively untapped market (maybe)
pip pip
TimP
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12107,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Re: New direction',1,12106,'
good plan, do they have any money?
I\'ve also thought a lot about estate agents
','f','',149,0,0);
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12108,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Cool site',3,0,'
Very impressed by <a href = \'http://www.limitless.co.uk/\'>http://www.limitless.co.uk/</a>
','f','',149,0,0);
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12109,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Re: Cool site',1,12108,'
Yep, some nice ideas, are you talking to them?
Tim
','f','',149,0,0);
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12110,'Fri Jan 22 12:15:35 1999','Music Industry websites',3,0,'
Rich,
I am a founder member of the freelance community paneris,
which has its offices on the web at http://www.paneris.co.uk/
Currently there are two types of contributors within paneris:
Coders and Drawers, but I am hopeful that we will be interested in
web-composers or whatever they will be called when websites all have
muzac themes.
We have recieved 5 star reviews from the FT and NetProfit magazine for our skii holiday booking company (http://www.iglu.com/) and did http://www.bloomsbury.com two years ago, when it was very state of the art.
If you are happy with our rules (http://www.paneris.co.uk/rules.shtml)
and interested in our refferal programme (10% on successful
leads on completeion) please consider us if you are recommending web site developers to bands/managers/record companies.
In particular see DanielH (http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/danielh/) \'s massive attack site at http://www.shocking.co.uk/massive/ .
yours
Tim Pizey
http://www.paneris.co.uk/
','f','',149,0,0);
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12111,'Fri Jan 22 15:43:44 1999','panorama viewer ',1,0,'
Chippy (and Will if you are interested),
We have a request from keyhaven to write (from scratch) a panorama viewer in Java Applet form. Some examples of can be found here:
http://www.ipix.com
http://www.jutvision.com/jut/index.htm
They wan\'t their own branded viewer as a \'business asset\', so although we can nick ideas from decompiling the above, we need to originate all code ourselves.
Does anyone want to do it? How much time/money will it cost? These is money available in (i think) realistic amounts.
I\'m just a bit scared of applets.
TimJ
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12112,'Mon Feb 1 20:49:01 1999','New customer?',1,0,'
got a lead from the HOOP site, here is the correspondance, check out his site.
:)
Hello Tim
The server does run java servlets and custom pearl cgi-bin scripts. pearl would
be better for this server I feel.
The customers can pick their own passwords
I want the members to enter through a certain page, no one should be able to
book mark a page in the site and enter without being promted for their password.
I currently have a credit card transaction company in place they are called
itransact
I would like to have the customer choose the passwords after they have submitted
their order. Itransact processes ordes in real time it only takes about one
minute to find out if the card number is valid, at that point they would be able
to choose a password and enter the site. there are currently three payment
options for customers 1 month,six months and one year. the program will have to
be able to keep track of the expiration dates. Customers will have full access
after they log into the site.
I hope I answered all questions clearly. OOOpppsss almost forgot
http://www.captainjacks1.com/
Best
Regards
Gary
Tim Joyce wrote:
> Gary,
>
> > I need an onsite program either in java or unix that will issue
> >passwords to customers after they purchase a membership and it would
> >also need to let the customer log into the site. I would need you to go
> >into the ftp and set this program up. I only have ftp access the server
> >does not allow telnet access. I guess what i\'m asking is if you can make
> >a program like that and set it up in the site.
>
> Sounds like something we can deffinitely do. We need to know a couple of
> things:
>
> 1) Does the server run Java servlets?
> 2) Does the server run custom perl cgi-bin scripts?
>
> Perl/cgi is probably the most appropiate, as it is easiest to get running.
>
> Also, a few questions about the passwords:
>
> 1) How do you envisage the passwords to be allocated? As a random number,
> or would you like your customers to choose their own?
> 2) How do we know if a customer has purchased membership? (your could do
> this by allocating the passwords yourself when you have checked their credit
> cards)
> 3) Do you want online credit card authorisation?
> 4) How much of the site needs password protection?
> 5) Do different customers only get to see different parts of the site?
>
> It would be great if I could see the site. Is it up?
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim Joyce
> Chief Enthusiast
> HOOP Ltd
> tim@hoop.co.uk
> http://www.hoop.co.uk
> +44 1202 251 816
>
> HOOP is proud to be a member of the Paneris
> Community. http://www.paneris.co.uk
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12113,'Thu Feb 18 19:09:20 1999','Techie Collective Seeks Work',3,0,'
Paneris is a collective of programmers and graphics designers.
We are looking for outsourcing opportunities.
We have VERY strong coding and design skills and will
work for modest rates (40gbp/hour) or to fixed prices contracts.
Visit our site at http://www.paneris.co.uk/
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',149,0,0);
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12114,'Thu Feb 18 19:22:46 1999','Re: WANTED: Web site developers/Graphic artists.',3,0,'
Abby,
differentcomputing Ltd wrote:
>
> differentcomputing is currently looking to recruit freelance web
> developers and graphic artists with web experience to support our
> growing list of clients.
>
> If you are interested, please let contact me!
>
> Abby - differentcomputing Ltd.
Paneris is a collective of freelance programmers and graphics designers.
We have VERY strong coding and design skills and will
work for modest rates (40gbp/hour) or to fixed price contracts.
Please visit our site at http://www.paneris.co.uk/.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',149,0,0);
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12115,'Thu Feb 18 19:27:20 1999','Re: Techie Collective Seeks Work',3,12113,'
Have you got anything special we could include in this.
http://www3.ericsson.se/erica/
Based In Shrewsbury and all systems go except for a nice bit of programing.
Kind Regards
Ian Brown
If you are serious have a look at the American Red Cross site
>
>Paneris is a collective of programmers and graphics designers.
>We are looking for outsourcing opportunities.
>We have VERY strong coding and design skills and will
>work for modest rates (40gbp/hour) or to fixed prices contracts.
>Visit our site at http://www.paneris.co.uk/
>yours
>Tim Pizey
','f','',149,0,0);
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12116,'Thu Feb 18 19:40:14 1999','Re: Re: Techie Collective Seeks Work',3,12115,'
Ian,
Thank you for your response.
>Have you got anything special we could include in this.
>http://www3.ericsson.se/erica/
Well, we are developing our own groupware, but
the impression I get is that they are looking for
people with itches but not the skills to scratch them.
>Based In Shrewsbury and all systems go except for a nice bit of programing.
I am afraid you have lost me.
>Kind Regards
>Ian Brown
>If you are serious have a look at the American Red Cross site
Would you like us to do some work for you?
If so please see http://www.paneris.co.uk/sales/introduction.shtml for
an introduction to our skills.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',149,0,0);
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12117,'Fri Feb 19 10:35:58 1999','Re: Re: Re: Techie Collective Seeks Work',3,12116,'Posted on behalf of Ian Brown by TimP
Hi Tim
I currently have enquiries for 2 e commerce sites.
Strangely enough a Publisher and a Wine Merchant.
I have been considering using shop@ssistant but its piss poor.
Both catalogues have 1500 items and the brochures were designed using Quark
on a Mac.
Would you do it and how much?
What do you think of Bluefly.com
Kind Regards
Ian Brown.
----------
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12118,'Fri Feb 19 15:11:50 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Techie Collective Seeks Work',3,12117,'
Ian,
>I currently have enquiries for 2 e commerce sites.
>Strangely enough a Publisher and a Wine Merchant.
>I have been considering using shop@ssistant but its piss poor.
>Both catalogues have 1500 items and the brochures were designed using Quark
>on a Mac.
>Would you do it and how much?
Yes we would, how much have you got :)
>What do you think of Bluefly.com
It looks very impressive.
I think that if we are to take this further you should ring
me (01865 721131) or write a much more detailed email.
Do you have a website yourself?
yours
Tim Pizey
PS If you can be bothered I prefer to use the message boards on the site
rather than straight email.
','f','',149,0,0);
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12119,'Tue Feb 23 12:59:03 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Techie Collective Seeks Work',3,12118,'
Well, who says you can\'t sell on the net.
Ian Brown of Business Research International has just \'phoned
and asked to join as a sales partner, so have added him at
htttp://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/BRI/
From what he says he is able to generate a steady stream of
small brochureware jobs.
It looks very much as though we are moving towards more work than we
need!!
yours
TimP
','f','',149,0,0);
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12120,'Thu Feb 25 13:00:24 1999','Re: The Open University',3,0,'
Jim,
I am very interested in Distance Tutoring; I have applied to the WEA but have had no reply.
I have worked computing since 1982, have founded a web-collective (http://www.paneris.co.uk/) and work from home.
Please send me an information pack.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',149,0,0);
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12121,'Thu Feb 25 15:52:19 1999','Creative Collective available for outsourcing',3,0,'
Sam,
I was given your email address when I telephoned 4th wave.
I am a founder member of a cyber collective which now comprises over twenty people; all highly qualified either
in programming or graphics design.
We have developed our ouwn groupware; the first version of which can be seen at http://www.paneris.co.uk/ but we are
reimplementing it in java technology on our new server at http://www.paneris.org/ (under construction).
We won 5 stars from both the FT and NetProfit magazine for
a ski-booking site we implemented at http://www.iglu.com/
and much earlier we implemented http://www.bloomsbury.com/
We would be keen to implement whole projects for you, or just the server side.
We can work to an hourly rate (40gbp) or to a fixed price
against a specification.
yours
Tim Pizey
01865 721131
','f','',149,0,0);
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12122,'Fri Feb 26 16:19:50 1999','Re: Re: The Open University',3,12120,'
Thank you for your enquiry about becoming an Associate Lecturer for the
Open University. Can I ask you to e-mail your request for an
application pack to tut-wh@open.ac.uk Details will not be available
until May of this year. You can find more about the Open University at
http://www.open.ac.uk
Good luck.
Jim Flood
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12123,'Fri Feb 26 16:23:04 1999','Re: Re: Re: The Open University',3,12122,'
Hi,
Jim Flood wrote:
>Thank you for your enquiry about becoming an Associate Lecturer for the
>Open University. Can I ask you to e-mail your request for an
>application pack to tut-wh@open.ac.uk Details will not be available
>until May of this year. You can find more about the Open University at
>http://www.open.ac.uk
>Good luck.
Could you please send me the pack.
If it requires snail mail my address is:
77 Hurst Street,
Oxford
OX4 1HA
My telephone number is 01865 721131
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12124,'Tue Mar 9 14:01:21 1999','Paneris Collective',3,0,'
Hi Richard,
to confirm our telephone conversation:
I am a member of the
<a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk\'>Paneris Collective</a>.
Please read an <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/sales/introduction.shtml\'>
introduction</a> to the collective and my
<a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/tim/cv.htm>CV</a>.
We are particularly interested in being hired as a team to do specified projects.
yours
Tim Pizey
01865 721121
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12125,'Tue Mar 9 14:06:48 1999','Re: Re: WANTED: Web site developers/Graphic artists.',3,12114,'
Abby,
On the 18th of Feb I wrote:
>Abby,
>differentcomputing Ltd wrote:
>>
>> differentcomputing is currently looking to recruit freelance web
>> developers and graphic artists with web experience to support our
>> growing list of clients.
>>
>> If you are interested, please let contact me!
>>
>> Abby - differentcomputing Ltd.
>Paneris is a collective of freelance programmers and graphics designers.
>We have VERY strong coding and design skills and will
>work for modest rates (40gbp/hour) or to fixed price contracts.
>Please visit our site at http://www.paneris.co.uk/.
but have not had a reply.
Do yopu want to give me a ring on 01865 721131?
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12126,'Tue Mar 9 15:28:29 1999','Paneris and Project Management System',3,0,'
Hannah,
Thankyou very much for our encouraging conversation.
We are a collective of programmers, designers, web-marketteers etc, please see <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/sales/introduction.shtml\'>our introduction</a>.
We wish to work on defined projects remotely, preferably as a team.
I was delighted that you liked our <a href=http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/pm/>Project Management System</a>; however it should be seen as an outdated technology demonstrator.
We are very keen to fund the further development of the system.
If you play with it you will find that it does have some shortcomings:
1. It currently uses Access
2. It is written in Perl
3. It only has rudimentary (IP based) security
4. It has no field validation
5. Invoices are not generated automatically
6. It does not use template technology
7. It does not have project archiving
We would, ideally, like to port it to Java using <a href=http://www.webmacro.org/>Webmacro</a> as the
template technology.
We prefer to sell work rather than software, to this end we would be very happy to give you the existing system, for you indefinite use, with source code.
However we would charge for:
1. Installation
2. Modifications
3. Customisations
We have a CVS based code control system, so if your own programmers wished to contribute to changing the system
that would be possible.
We do not have records of how long the existintg system took to develop, (as it wasn\'t in place at the time :))
but I would estimate that it would have cost 5k, so
it is a substantial freebie.
We have used the PMS for our own projects for some while,
and as we demonstrated on the \'phone it does give valuable information on costs of past projects.
We have also developed software to enable people to
update webdatabases from local databases using CSV files.
We have a complete range of skills available, from data inputters to linux gurus (and some very talented graphic deigners).
I hope we can form a long term relationship with Internet Assist Ltd.
yours sincerely
Tim Pizey
01865 721131
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12127,'Tue Mar 9 15:52:37 1999','Homeworker: Web based researcher',3,0,'
Knowledge Computing is looking for a researcher to retrieve relevant
information from UK Websites offering online advertising, including:
* Company, Web address, contact name, email address.
* Advertising rates and formats
* Some other pertinent information
While some of this information is fairly easy to acquire, it may
require follow-up emails to the companies concerned.
The post pays £1 per company record.
If you are interested, please reply by email with the following
information:
* Your name, Email address
* No of months/years using the Web
* Whether you can use a database or spreadsheet
Ian Tresman, ian@knowledge.co.uk
Knowledge Computing
www.knowledge.co.uk
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12128,'Tue Mar 9 15:57:30 1999','Re: Homeworker: Web based researcher',3,12127,'
Ian,
I would be very interested in your research position.
I am a member of a web-collective many of whom would be
happy to work within your framework.
Name: Tim Pizey
Email: tim@paneris.co.uk
No of months/years using the Web: 6
I can use databases, spreadsheets you name it, and so can others in the collective.
I hope we can help
yours
Tim Pizey
01865 721131
>Knowledge Computing is looking for a researcher to retrieve relevant
>information from UK Websites offering online advertising, including:
> * Company, Web address, contact name, email address.
> * Advertising rates and formats
> * Some other pertinent information
>While some of this information is fairly easy to acquire, it may
>require follow-up emails to the companies concerned.
>
>The post pays £1 per company record.
>
>If you are interested, please reply by email with the following
>information:
>
> * Your name, Email address
> * No of months/years using the Web
> * Whether you can use a database or spreadsheet
>
>Ian Tresman, ian@knowledge.co.uk
>Knowledge Computing
>www.knowledge.co.uk
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12129,'Tue Mar 9 16:08:24 1999','Re: Re: Homeworker: Web based researcher',122,12128,'Posted to the old system by Ian Tresman (ian@knowledge.couk)
Thank you for your interest in the homeworking job. The advert had a good response, and unfortuntately I was successful with another applicant. I\'ll keep you details on file in case our requirements change.
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12130,'Tue Mar 9 16:21:46 1999','Re: Re: Homeworker: Web based researcher',3,12128,'Posted on behalf of Ian Tresman by TimP
Thank you for your interest in the homeworking job. The newsgroup advert
had a good response, and unfortuntately I was successful with another
applicant. I\'ll keep you details on file in case our requirements change.
Regards,
Ian Tresman, Web publisher, Knowledge Computing
9 Ashdown Drive, Borehamwood. Herts. WD6 4LZ. UK
Tel: +44 181 953 7722. email: ian@knowledge.co.uk
Fax: +44 181 905 1879. http://www.knowledge.co.uk
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12131,'Tue Mar 9 22:24:33 1999','Epinet advert from uk.jobs.offered',3,0,'
Subject:
JAVA / ASP jobs available immediately
Date:
Tue, 09 Mar 1999 10:35:33 +0000
From:
Robert Houghton <roberth@epinet.co.uk>
Organization:
Epinet Communictions Plc
Newsgroups:
uk.jobs.offered, uk.comp.misc, uk.jobs, uk.jobs.contract, uk.jobs.wanted
Permanent/contract position at Epinet Communications Plc in
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire or our London office. Available
immediately.
At least one years experience in active web development.
In depth knowledge of database integration using Java, Active
Server Pages, VB Script and CGI. Microsoft NT4 experience
essential.
Good salary: £ 20 - 30K, depending on experience.
Your Requirements:
· Very Internet Literate - needs to know about all the latest
Internet technologies and trends
· 6 - 12 months HTML and Web Page Design experience
· 2 years programming experience in any of the following
areas: Java, C/C++, Visual Basic, ASP, SQL or Perl.
· System Administration experience of Microsoft NT 3 or 4
· Unix (Solaris) and Linux experience useful but not
compulsory
· Based in the South- West of England, preferably in
Gloucestershire
· 20 - 30 years of age
· Good interpersonal skills and telephone manner
Visit our web site to find out more information, or contact us
below.
Epinet Communications Plc
www.epinet.co.uk
Tel: 01242 821000
Fax: 01242 821122
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12132,'Wed Mar 10 10:39:43 1999','Re: Epinet advert from uk.jobs.offered',1,12131,'
I gave robert a shout, and he has thought of us, but is obviously keen to recruit full time staff.
Rachael is leaving (creating the vaccancy).
Interestingly, I am the only lead that the advert has generated, indicating a bit of a skills shortage.
I think he may well come back to us.
timj
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12133,'Wed Mar 10 12:10:29 1999','Re: Re: Epinet advert from uk.jobs.offered',4,12132,'
Hopefully we can sell Rachel back to him at twice the price ;-).
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12134,'Thu Mar 11 12:33:55 1999','London - Cloudband.com: Webmaster Required',3,0,'
Dear all,
Ed Davey (Ed.Davey@cloudband.com) responded to a message of mine:
>Tim,
>
>Thanks for your interest.
>
>Perhaps one of you guys could help us in the immediate term, in that we need
>to give our trainee webmaster (who is in place) some coaching on the black
>art of graphics production for the web. He knows the basics thoroughly, and
>now needs some tips of the trade from a real expert in manipulating images
>for the web to produce excellent results at optimal file sizes.
>
>Anyone spring to mind, who might be available for a few daytime or evening
>coaching session? Location: East Finchley, London. (Must be in the flesh).
>
>Thanks,
>
>ED
>
If anyone can take this work on can they reply to this message and then contact Ed.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12135,'Thu Mar 11 13:13:26 1999','RE: Freelance Web Developers Wanted',3,0,'
Hi,
it sounds like you need us and are very similar in
structure/outlook to us.
We are a cyber-collective based at http://www.paneris.co.uk/
We are primarily programmers, but have a number of associated graphic deisgners.
It looks as though we would have complimentary skill sets:
we are short of meaty contracts and good graphics deisgners,
and (perhaps) you are short of good programmers.
Hope we can help.
yours
Tim Pizey
(01865 721131)
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12136,'Thu Mar 11 13:37:06 1999','Re: Contract Task: Perl, DBI, Mysql',3,0,'
Hi Joe,
It sounds like you need us.
We have used exactly this architecture, except we decided on postgress not MySQL.
Our hourly rates are 40gbp per hour.
We have experience in remote working and our own webbased groupware.
Check us out at http://www.paneris.co.uk/
yours
Tim Pizey
+44 1865 721131
Joe King wrote:
>
> Wanted contract programmer to complete single task. More will follow which
> you are not obliged to do. One task at a time. It evolves a Web based data
> entry form with 10 fields, 3 databases, and SendMail.
> Work from your home. We will pay standard rates. Email for task description.
> Joe King
> j_a_king@earthlink.net
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12137,'Wed Mar 31 10:11:42 1999','cds',1,0,'
Anyone interested? if not, i\'ll post it on trustgroup
>Does this kind of thing interest you? I\'m not very interested.
>
>I can get the keywords captured at low cost.
>
>A.
>
>------- Start of forwarded message -------
>>
>>Dear Antony
>>
>>I have been asked to produce a costing for a CD containing conference
>>proceedings. It is estimated that this will contain some 15,000 pages of
>>approx 1000 -1200 separate articles. Each article opening will contain the
>>article title, author details and a list of keywords. The idea is that the
>>CD should be searchable for each of these items (search on author names;
>>search on titles of articles; search on keywords). It is considered that
>>this could be achieved by scanning the pages and creating PDFs from them.
>>However our editor is really interested in having a dedicated search engine
>>produced and included in the CD. In addition, they want to give the whole
>>thing a bit of pizzazz and include some music and pictures. As the
>>conference is to take place in Barcelona, it would suit the purpose for the
>>sights to be those of the outlandish architecture of the city and the music
>>could be flamenco - we would supply the source material.
>>
>> CD
>>1000 copies
>>containing
>> acrobat reader and installation of acrobat reader for Dos, Mac, OS2,
>> Unix and Windows.
>> photos (htm/gif and bitmap files) - probably to be produced from
>> existing prints, 100 of them
>> sound (wav files) - probably to be recorded from a CD, 5 of them (each 3
>> min. long, 2Mb)
>> 1000 articles spread over 15,000 pages of articles in acrobat format,
>> from CRC prints
>> author and keyword index with link to the article
>> Booklet with Contents list, estimated at 64 pages CD format (cfr Opera
>> CDs with libretto)
>>packaging: jewel case plus carton holder for CD and booklet.
>>
>>If you are interested, I have a sample CD which I could send to you. It
>>seems to be the sound files Thai most people have difficulty with.
>>
>>Let me know what you think
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Robert
>>------- End of forwarded message -------
>>
>>
>------- End of forwarded message -------
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12138,'Tue Aug 3 15:48:32 1999','Re: Re: Re: Epinet advert from uk.jobs.offered',120,12133,'
>Hopefully we can sell Rachel back to him at twice the price ;-).
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12139,'Sun Sep 19 15:01:00 1999','Re: Re: Re: WANTED: Web site developers/Graphic artists.',122,12125,'Posted to the old system by Starmyste (binah@wilmington.net)
Wilmington NC (Southeastern Coastal Region) Webmistress desires work. Banner creation, Logo design. Will consider contractural work. Owner of EterniTee\'s, designer of tshirts for religious and other organizations. Custom work available or will use your design at no extra charge. StarMyste Design, see my website @ http://members.tripod.com/~LdyMyste
>Abby,
>On the 18th of Feb I wrote:
>>Abby,
>>differentcomputing Ltd wrote:
>>>
>>> differentcomputing is currently looking to recruit freelance web
>>> developers and graphic artists with web experience to support our
>>> growing list of clients.
>>>
>>> If you are interested, please let contact me!
>>>
>>> Abby - differentcomputing Ltd.
>>Paneris is a collective of freelance programmers and graphics designers.
>>We have VERY strong coding and design skills and will
>>work for modest rates (40gbp/hour) or to fixed price contracts.
>>Please visit our site at http://www.paneris.co.uk/.
>
>but have not had a reply.
>Do yopu want to give me a ring on 01865 721131?
>yours
>Tim Pizey
','f','',149,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
150,'sales','Paneris Sales',8150,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sales/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/sales/',2);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12140,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Sales Node',3,0,'
This area is intended for the discussion and implementation of
issues and tools for the sales force.
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12141,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Zeus Technology\'s Web Performance Monitoring',3,0,'
Boys,
Zeus Technology, who featured in Wired a year or so ago,
have set up a web performance monitoring service which
many of the famous ISPs have signed up to; I think that
I-way should be on the list.
See <a href=\'http://webperf.zeus.co.uk/\'>http://webperf.zeus.co.uk/</a> for details.
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12142,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','What do we want to do with the sales node?',3,0,'
Boys,
what is the SALES node for?
I cannot remember the passwords
for the company nodes, so cannot see what they do at the moment.
Keyhaven have changed status, what happens to its entry
at the sales node?
Should the sales node be visible at the top level?
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12143,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Where to get work from',3,0,'
>
>By the way I got an interesting insight into how Realise work
>(http://www.realise.com --- they claim to be the only really
>successful web firm in Scotland).
>
>They are finding increasingly that the web stuff leads them into
>helping people reorganise the computers throughout their organisation,
>and, they say, as long as they stay away from SAP (!) and try to with
>rather than against any existing IT people, it makes them lots of
>money and generates masses of followup work.
>
>This done by 2 ex-AI people who are the only people in Realise who can
>actually write programs, certainly not database specialists ...
>
I believe that this is a sensible expectation for how we should work.
A companies web presence tends to be owned by pretty influential people
in a company and can lead one into discussions with people who actually have budgets and power. It is, as you hint, however, very easy to upset the existing
IT staff.
I am also finding that there are quite a few people (see partners airflow,
chameleon, keyhaven) who have sales skills or graphics skills but who need the technical backup that we can provide. Whilst the number of jobs recieved is still small, and we often have to sub-contract or give out large finders fees,
the jobs are starting to come in.
yours
TimP
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12144,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','PanEris Way Discount',3,0,'
<h3><em>PanEris Way Discount</em></h3>
Soon we should be able to offer a <em>PanEris Way Discount</em>.
I have now got three customers, all to varying degrees using Paneris,
so now I feel free to start extrapolating wildly beyond the data :)
The discount should be graduated according to how many of the
following criteria are met:
<ul>
<li>PMS system used for project planning by customer
<li>Project initiated from http://www.paneris.co.uk/
<li>Invoices accepted on web
<li>All project related email posted from site.
<li>All documents kept on site
<li>Documents uploaded to site by customer
</ul>
This is just a repackaging of the <em>management fee</em>,
that goes top the project leader. Essentially they can
have some of that back if they do some of the work.
To get though they will have to become <em>people</em>,
not just partners.
yours
TimP
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12145,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Contributions to the PanEris fund',3,0,'
I am doing all my work on PanEris, and so have a few
contracts which perhaps I should be back filling the
<em>Paneris Fund</em> with.
Well, re-reading the <a href=\'/people/\'>people</a> page,
it seems that the current understanding is that only money from I-way
should go into the pot, because of the history.
The other reading is that only jobs which are <b>brought to the team</b>,
ie shared out with other Paneris /people.
So using current charges,
Programmer cost 32
Finders fee 4
Project lead 2
Paneris fund 2
========================
Programmer charge out 40
The question is, on one man projects, should the paneris fund
be receiving 5%.
This means that the <em>project lead</em> recieves
5% more than the programmer.
Which projects does or should this apply to, other than the
known ones of /partners/iway ?
yours
timP
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12146,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Re: Contributions to the PanEris fund',1,12145,'
>I am doing all my work on PanEris, and so have a few
>contracts which perhaps I should be back filling the
><em>Paneris Fund</em> with.
excellent idea
>Well, re-reading the <a href=\'/people/\'>people</a> page,
>it seems that the current understanding is that only money from I-way
>should go into the pot, because of the history.
chippy also has a project of dubious origins which he is contributing to paneris. Jenny is working directly for bloomsbury and will also pay 10% into the fund for this customer.
>The other reading is that only jobs which are <b>brought to the team</b>,
>ie shared out with other Paneris /people.
Not sure what you mean.
>So using current charges,
>Programmer cost 32
>Finders fee 4
>Project lead 2
>Paneris fund 2
>========================
>Programmer charge out 40
!!! How did you arrive at this, I have recently posted to /system about how I see the new charging structure.
notes on above:
if there is to be a contribution to paneris fund it should come as a cut in the finders fee, not the management fee (which strugles to cover costs at present).
Programmer cost 33.33
Finders fee 3.33
Project lead 3.33
========================
Programmer charge out 40
is how I see things
>The question is, on one man projects, should the paneris fund
>be receiving 5%.
only if the finders fee can not be justified.
>This means that the <em>project lead</em> recieves
>5% more than the programmer.
? don\'t understand what you mean.
>Which projects does or should this apply to, other than the
>known ones of /partners/iway ?
see above
this message xposted to /system
>yours
>timP
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12147,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Re: Contributions to the PanEris fund',2,12146,'
Let\'s get this clear:
Cost = developers fee + 10% for finders fee + 10% project leader.
At presesent this is £33.33 + £3.33 + £3.33 (total : £39.99).
See <a href="/philosophy/money.shtml">
In case where the finder is no longer in control of the relationship
with that customer, the finder\'s fee goes to the Paneris pot (note
this is 10% not 5%). Note that this case is the exception, not the
rule. In particular, TimP need not worry about putting money in the
pot.
This occurs with I-Way (TimP no longer running the customer), Jenny
for the Bloomsbury stuff (ditto) and Netalliance (me) where the
customer came from a contact originally introduced by TimJ, where
TimJ handed the whole lead to me.
Hope this is clear,
Myles
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12148,'Thu Nov 5 20:09:35 1998','Re: Re: Contributions to the PanEris fund',1,12147,'
>Let\'s get this clear:
>Cost = developers fee + 10% for finders fee + 10% project leader.
>At presesent this is £33.33 + £3.33 + £3.33 (total : £39.99).
>See <a href="/philosophy/money.shtml">philosophy/money</a>
>In case where the finder is no longer in control of the relationship
>with that customer, the finder\'s fee goes to the Paneris pot (note
>this is 10% not 5%). Note that this case is the exception, not the
>rule. In particular, TimP need not worry about putting money in the
>pot.
>This occurs with I-Way (TimP no longer running the customer), Jenny
>for the Bloomsbury stuff (ditto) and Netalliance (me) where the
>customer came from a contact originally introduced by TimJ, where
>TimJ handed the whole lead to me.
This now no longer is the case for jenny, as we have decided that the fee is due to TimJ as he got the sale (from under Glen\'s nose :)
>Hope this is clear,
>Myles
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12149,'Thu Nov 5 20:14:20 1998','more bizare than meeting your lawyer outside tescos',1,0,'
Today I sent an email to giles at keyhaven with some billing info. However I sent it to the wrong giles who promptly sent me a \'what\'s this?\', \'do i know you?\' reply. I appologised and removed him from my address book to avoid future confusion. he then replied:
no problem - but keep us on your list, we may yet have some business for
you; this thing is outgrowing my programming time available.....
Giles Rider mailto:giles@citynews.com http://www.citynews.com
now <b>that</b> is how to find customers :)
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12150,'Thu Nov 19 20:35:24 1998','http://www.proteusweb.com/',1,0,'
going to see these guys tomorrow. they need perl programmers.
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12151,'Fri Dec 11 9:01:41 1998','got this quality lead today...',1,0,'
can this company make a program the computer can draw thing automaticly on it
own ?just by telling it what you want it to draw or draft
if so please let me know
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12152,'Wed Mar 17 12:41:28 1999','ed',1,0,'
Just got a call from ed:
he has quit keyhaven, and is keen to sign up as a salesman for paneris. we talked about sales %ages, and I said we were flexible especially if more work than simple lead generation was involved. we tentively agreed:
10% for simple lead generation rising to 20% for lead + meeting(s) + (co)writing a proposal. probably we will negociate this on a job-by-job basis.
additionally he appears to have pulled in www.paneris.co.uk/partners/keyhaven/finsbury which is worth a bit of dosh. nothing in writing yet, by the md has given a verbal goahead. we are not quite sure weather this will be an ed or keyhaven job.
he has no pc just yet, but will be sorting this out in the near future.
exciting...
timj
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12153,'Fri Mar 26 17:03:53 1999','someone called william',1,0,'
said he liked the iglu site at a lecture last night, all the info i have is:
Mr Gates, speaking at the London Business School, described how digital
intermediaries such as Iglu.com utilise technology to market products, in
Iglu.com\'s case ski chalets, to their consumers in a way that was not
possible before in such an efficient way whilst bringing enhanced value to
the consumer.
timj
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12154,'Mon Mar 29 19:30:57 1999','Re: someone called william',3,12153,'Posted on behalf of Pippa Goodman by TimP
Subject: Bill Gates - transcript
As promised, please find attached a copy of the transcript of Bill
Gates\' presentation on Friday.
Any requests to reproduce parts of the text will need to be cleared
with Text 100 - the UK pr agency.
Kind regards
Pippa
Pippa Goodman
Associate Director, Communications (Press & PR)
London Business School
pgoodman@lbs.ac.uk
Tel. +44 (0)171 706 6866
Fax. +44 (0)171 724 8433
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12155,'Mon Mar 29 19:35:45 1999','Re: Bill Gates - transcript',3,12154,'
Pippa,
>As promised, please find attached a copy of the transcript of Bill
>Gates\' presentation on Friday.
Thank you very much.
The quote turns out not to be very extensive:
<P>The profound impact is where it is buyers and sellers who could not have found each other. I understand there is a start-up that somebody has done from the London Business School that relates to ski chalets and finding people who have those and are interested in those. You cannot imagine doing that as efficiently without digital searching techniques, and so that is a market that will be mediated far better because of the ultimate marketplace that the Internet will provide.</P>
>Any requests to reproduce parts of the text will need to be cleared
>with Text 100 - the UK pr agency.
Thankyou again, do you happen to have their contact details?
yours
Tim Pizey
http://www.paneris.co.uk/
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12156,'Mon Mar 29 22:25:05 1999','Permission to publish transcript of Bill Gates Seminar 26/03/99',3,0,'
Hi Emma,
I would like to have permission to quote in whole or in part the transcript of Bill Gates seminar given at the London Business School on 26/03/99.
I would be happy to forward a copy to youselves prior
to publication.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12157,'Tue Mar 30 12:16:28 1999','Re: Re: Bill Gates - transcript',3,12155,'
Hi Tim
My contact at Text 100 is Simon Thompson - and he can be reached on
0181 242 4102. Let me know if you have any problems getting in
contact with him.
Kind regards
Pippa
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12158,'Tue Mar 30 12:17:23 1999','Re: Permission to publish transcript of Bill Gates Seminar 26/03/99',3,12156,'
Dear Mr Pizey,
Your message has reached me safe and sound. Have forwarded your request to
a colleague of mine - Mr Simon Thompson, who I am sure will reply as soon as
possible.
Many thanks,
Emma Bowen-Davies
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12159,'Tue Mar 30 12:17:56 1999','Re: Permission to publish transcript of Bill Gates Seminar 26/03/99',3,12156,'
Thanks very much for this. Could you let me have a few more details on where
you want to publish this and who it will got to. Don\'t anticipate any
problems but would be grateful if you could let me have this information.
Thanks
S.
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12160,'Tue Mar 30 15:00:57 1999','Bill\'s speech',3,0,'
is at http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/speeches/03-26london.htm
so there does not seem to be a problem with mirroring it:)
yours
timP
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12161,'Mon Jun 14 13:19:51 1999','Robinson web site',1,0,'
All,
Anybody interested in taking on this project, I have to pass due to work overload.
Dear Tim
In terms of a design brief - this is the sort of thing I think we are looking for:-
When you enter our site our logo - which is a robin - should come up immediately. I think that we should have the following pages:-
1) About us - brief paragraph about the sort of books we publish and autumn lead titles
2) Who does what - who do you write to obtain a catalogue/send in a manuscript etc
3) Special offers for the month and how to order our books.
4) Our complete catalogue - backlist titles in with no visual but with quotes wherever possible.
Approx 150 titles Forthcoming titles about 40 with jacket visual.
5) Children\'s page
6) Links to author website ie Steven Saylor and Elizabeth Peters
I hope that this gives you something to think about and comes within the £2500 budget.
Please contact me (today), and I will make introductions. You can take it from there.
timj
tim@hoop.co.uk
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12162,'Mon Jun 14 13:41:24 1999','Re: Robinson web site',118,12161,'
Tim-
Sounds simple enough. What\'s the deadline?
-Jasper
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12163,'Mon Jun 14 13:41:51 1999','Re: Robinson web site',122,12161,'Posted to the old system by ralph (ralph.brazier@alpha-is.co.uk)
I am interested Tim.
Thanks Ralph
Tel 020 88771155
Email ralph.brazier@alpha-is.co.uk
>Please contact me (today), and I will make introductions. You can take it from there.
>timj
>tim@hoop.co.uk
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12164,'Mon Jun 14 14:02:20 1999','Re: Robinson web site',6,12161,'
Dear Tim,
I will do the site. Ready to start ASAP.
Daniel Hart
graphic designer
web> www.djh-graphics.com
email> djh-graphics@zetnet.co.uk
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12165,'Mon Jun 14 16:14:10 1999','Re: Robinson web site',1,12161,'
Wow,
bit overwhealmed to get 3 responses!
Not sure what to do now. I am sure you all perfectly capable of doing the job, so, what to do?
I am keen to avoid competitive tendering, as it doesn\'t help the sense of community.
So, my best mechanism for choosing is to judge your commitment to the paneris ideal. For this, daniel clearly has put most effort into his paneris page www.paneris.co.uk/people/danielh
I know this is terribly arbiterary, and I appologise. My own paneris page is pretty damn poor.
I intend to give the customer Daniels name, and suggest that if he is not appropiate, that they come back to me to suggest someone else.
Please comment on this process. I am intending as much openness and as little bad feeling as possible.
HOOP will expect to be paid 10% for getting the lead, and will take no further part in the project.
timj
','f','',150,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
151,'promotion','Paneris promotion',8151,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/promotion/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/promotion/',2);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12166,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Moved directory',3,0,'
Hi Tim,
Just moved system/promotion to sales/promotion.
It is so cool not having to bore everyone with this message.
yours
timP
','f','',151,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12167,'Tue Apr 6 10:59:38 1999','www.ememories.com',3,0,'
If you want me to critique your work further it will cost
40 gbp per hour :)
yours
TimP
','f','',151,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12168,'Tue Apr 6 11:28:29 1999','Re: www.ememories.com',1,12167,'
Jen,
worth checking out (for betrothed research):
www.ememories.com
timj
','f','',151,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
152,'questions','Paneris questions',8152,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/questions/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/questions/',2);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12169,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Project Initialisation Question',111,0,'Posted on behalf of SimonT by TimP
* What is the client business
* Who is the target audience(Hardware Profile)
* Is there a client corporate identity document
* Is there any client company literature
* What are their objectives with their web presence
* Who will take ownership of the project in-house(Contact Details)
* Does content exist and what format is it in
* Where will site be hosted
* What is the prefered launch date
* Is their a database involved
* If there is a database, does it exist
* If the database already exists what application is it written in
* If the database already exists can we have a copy
* If the database does not exist is it to be developed in-house
* If it is to be developed by I-WAY....(Now I need you guys to help!!! What questions do we ask to guage the database??)
Well these were my thoughts for the sales people\'s Q list. Remember that these guys need guidance in the call and I\'d like this to act as a template to an initial meeting with the client so we may scope the job as accurately as possible.
Our sales people are...
bob@soho.i-way.co.uk
helen@oxford.i-way.co.uk
dick@i-way.co.uk
emma@swindon.i-way.co.uk
chris@i-way.co.uk
','f','',152,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12170,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Re: Project Initialisation Questions',3,12169,'
What we need is a script which works on a database of
questions and records answers for particular clients.
Questions can be of the following types:
Boolean (radio) - yes/no questions
Options (select) - closed list of options
Text (textarea) - Answer in text
The answers to questions should create a document,
say an estimate or a proposal, from a template, which
the sales person can then edit by hand if necessary.
','f','',152,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12171,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Re: Project Initialisation Question',2,12169,'Posted on behalf of MylesC by TimP
Simon,
Sorry about the delay in replying - mainly because these quesstions
all seem good. But here are my comments:
At 15:41 11/10/97 -0000, Simon Tucker wrote:
>* What is the client business
>* Who is the target audience(Hardware Profile)
I suspect that in most cases we would have to tell the customer the
hardware profile of the target audience, but of course there might well
be special cases where the target audience is particularly well-defined.
>* Is there a client corporate identity document
>* Is there any client company literature
>* What are their objectives with their web presence
This is where the tips from marketingnet.com will come in. The main
tip that we should bear in mind here is that the content should be
useful to the audience to keep them coming back. In particular, just
putting a version of any company literature (prospectus, sales brochure,
whatever) will not be as effective as providing \'useful\' content - e.g.
adding an ordering mechanism for products, providing technical papers for
techies, free downloads for trials of products, hints and tips for using
products, a web based discussion forum for product users, etc.)
>* Who will take ownership of the project in-house(Contact Details)
>* Does content exist and what format is it in
>* Where will site be hosted
>* What is the prefered launch date
>* Is there a database involved
>* If there is a database, does it exist
>* If the database already exists what application is it written in
Application or language.
>* If the database already exists can we have a copy
>* If the database does not exist is it to be developed in-house
>* If it is to be developed by I-WAY....(Now I need you guys to help!!!
What questions do we ask to guage the database??)
We need to know the structure and size of the database:
* How many records will it hold?
* What will be the contents of each records (what fields will it have)?
* What do we need to do with the data? (Just display it, incorporate it
into order forms, dynamically update it as users enter data,
use it customise pages etc).
* Are there any \'subsiduary\' databases (technically, how many tables
do we need, and how are they linked)
For instance, the USN database has a main table of parts and their
descriptions, and two subsiduary tables - one for prices and another
for the suppliers of the parts. This is not too important initially
as these requirements should get refined as the technical spec of the
database/site are expanded and refined.
And I think that we might need similar guidance for other \'advanced\'
technology
including anything involving programming - Java, JavaScript, any CGI scripts.
>Well these were my thoughts for the sales people\'s Q list. Remember that
these guys need guidance in the call and I\'d like this to act as a template
to an initial meeting with the client so we may scope the job as accurately
as possible.
>
>Our sales people are...
>
>bob@soho.i-way.co.uk
>helen@oxford.i-way.co.uk
>dick@i-way.co.uk
>emma@swindon.i-way.co.uk
>chris@i-way.co.uk
>
>
>Speak soon,
>
>Simon
Hope this is useful. I think that one thing to remember is that it will always
be difficult to get all the relevant information right at the start of the
sales/consultancy process, (if only because customers might not have a clear
idea of what they really want/need) and so long as most of these questions are
answered early AND CIRCULATED TO RELEVANT PEOPLE FOR COMMENT then we should be
in a good position to move forward with each case.
So long as we communicate the answers to the above questions effectively
(perhaps via e-mail or by using some web technology such as Paneris
Multiboard)
so that anyone involved has the chance to forward any questions to the
customer
(either via the sales person or directly with the customer, depending) then we
can\'t have a better start to a project (other than having a technical person
sitting in on every sales meeting which is not really practical).
Note distribution of this message : paneris@i-way and SimonT. In particular,
this is not distributed to sales people. I have not followed up on the
multiboard because I am not sure if Simon is involved in the distribution
(we need to look at distribution of multiboard messages, I think).
Myles
---------------------------------------------------------------
Myles Chippendale - myles.chippendale@hclu.ox.ac.uk
77 Hurst Street - mylesc@i-way.co.uk
Oxford OX4 1HA - 01865 791078
','f','',152,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12172,'Wed Sep 15 16:47:50 1999','Re: Project Initialisation Question',1,12169,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by TimP
Simon,
I like what Myles has written, and can only add that databases vary
immensely in complexity, we should not seek to get the sales people to ask
too many questions about them as:
1) The initial customer contact is unlikely to know, and will refer to a
techie.
2) Techies like to talk to Techies
3) It is easy to get bogged down in the complexities
4) Too much analysis, drifts into consultation (which should be chargeable)
Have fun
Tim
Tim Joyce
Technical Director
http://www.hoop.co.uk
tim@hoop.co.uk
+44 171 642 1650
','f','',152,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
153,'resources','Paneris resources',8153,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/resources/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/resources/',2);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12173,'Thu Mar 11 14:40:06 1999','Sales tool required',3,0,'
Dear all,
I have been putting a few hours a day into selling via the
newsgroups.
It seems to be working quite well, but I feel the need for
a tool.
I am scanning too many groups, many with the same message crossposted.
I am setting up loads of filters on my client.
I seem to get loads of expired message headers.
I have mentioned to uk.jobs.d that I would like
uk.jobs.web but doubt anything will happen.
So:
does anyone have any suggestions as to how things could be better set up?
yours
TimP
','f','',153,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12174,'Thu Mar 11 16:38:49 1999','Re: Sales tool required',2,12173,'
Tim,
We have a news-server set up on ganesh. You can access
postings from the hard disk. Write a script that does
whatever you want to do with the data.
Myles
>Dear all,
>
>I have been putting a few hours a day into selling via the
>newsgroups.
>It seems to be working quite well, but I feel the need for
>a tool.
>I am scanning too many groups, many with the same message crossposted.
>I am setting up loads of filters on my client.
>I seem to get loads of expired message headers.
>I have mentioned to uk.jobs.d that I would like
>uk.jobs.web but doubt anything will happen.
>So:
>does anyone have any suggestions as to how things could be better set up?
>yours
>TimP
','f','',153,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
154,'CVS','Paneris CVS List',8154,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/CVS/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/CVS/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12175,'Thu Apr 22 0:05:51 1999','Ctrl-M in files',3,0,'
Tim,
you too seem to be suffering from ctrl-M disease.
Specifically the file /dbadmin/scripts/createdatadictionary.sql is full of them if you edit it with pico on ganesh.
I don\'t know where the problem is coming from,
but it needs to be born in mind/figured out.
yours
timP
','f','',154,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12176,'Thu Apr 22 9:36:18 1999','Re: Ctrl-M in files',1,12175,'
>you too seem to be suffering from ctrl-M disease.
umm, I don\'t think it\'s me, I haven\'t changed this file since it was put in CVS.
>Specifically the file /dbadmin/scripts/createdatadictionary.sql is full of them if you edit it with pico on ganesh.
>I don\'t know where the problem is coming from,
>but it needs to be born in mind/figured out.
This is a classic for cvs to sort out. We should easily be able to work out who committed the changes that added the ^Ms. But I can\'t work out how to retrieve an arbitary revision.
Also, how are CVS versions numbers formatted, we seem to have gone from 1.1.1.1 format to 1.1 format. Or am I confused?
timj
','f','',154,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12177,'Thu Apr 22 14:50:13 1999','messageboards',1,0,'
An early release is in cvs, this is not on ganesh, as i have simply put it up to give example more templates and handlers for development of pfe.
cvs module:messageboard
timj
','f','',154,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12178,'Sun Apr 25 9:36:46 1999','cvs updates',1,0,'
I have renamed the /scripts directory in all projects to /sql, as this allows access2db.pl to be placed in the correct (imho) directory of /scripts under the util project.
I have put access2db.pl into util/scripts
i hope this is ok.
timj
','f','',154,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12179,'Sun Apr 25 9:44:05 1999','finsbury',1,0,'
I have added the finsbury module to cvs. this currently contains messageboards and users stuff that will need to be more generally available, but I figured, release early (9.30am :)
timj
','f','',154,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12180,'Mon Apr 26 6:43:20 1999','bit rushed',1,0,'
All,
The updates I did yesterday were a bit rushed, they all appear to have gone OK, but I have not had time for a vast amount of testing.
I am in Town today, so please try and call the mobile, otherwise we\'ll speak tomorrow.
Appologies if you hit problems
timj
','f','',154,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12181,'Mon Apr 26 13:25:19 1999','Re: cvs updates',2,12178,'
>I have renamed the /scripts directory in all projects to /sql,
That\'s good.
>as this allows access2db.pl to be placed in the correct
>(imho) directory of /scripts under the util project.
I still think util/convertors is the right place...
>I have put access2db.pl into util/scripts
>i hope this is ok.
>timj
What you didn\'t do is \'chgrp cvsusers newdir\' for all the
new directories you created. TimP has now fixed this, but
it would be nice to do it future.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',154,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12182,'Wed Apr 28 20:17:11 1999','improving admin code',1,0,'
I have made changes to Administration.java, so that we can now order the list returned, and also AdministrationEdit takes default values accoring to the selection on the list page.
I have also sorted out the little bit of html that had crept into our java code (as requested by timp).
you will need to cvs update dbadmin and util, and make changes in any templates derived from AdministrationList.wm and AdministrationEdit.wm
I have not yet sorted out the finsbury cvs or put messageboards and users into util.
ps (for will, who hasn\'t been told recently how hard we are):
I-way asked us if we can develop a 10K NT/asp/SQL Server project. I said NO, do it in java. they said "customer is a M$ reseller and wants ASP". I said forget it. They said ok, we\'ll do it in java.
:)
','f','',154,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12183,'Thu Apr 29 0:36:45 1999','Re: improving admin code',3,12182,'
>I have made changes to Administration.java, so that we can now order the list returned, and also AdministrationEdit takes default values accoring to the selection on the list page.
>I have also sorted out the little bit of html that had crept into our java code (as requested by timp).
Thanks
>you will need to cvs update dbadmin and util, and make changes in any templates derived
>from AdministrationList.wm and AdministrationEdit.wm
Beautiful, just the job, and makes everything so transparent.
I have cvs updated /usr/local/packages/inst/paneris/org/
I have altered compile_all.sh
(I used jikes but it found a ;; in something and barfed,
Tim you should try it, it is far faster and it seems semantically more fussy (the compiler is your friend :))
I had to change permissions/groups in /usr/local/share/handlers,
how come I have to do that every time ?
So now create PFETrack specific AdministrationList.wm and AdministrationEdit.wm.
...... And all is well with the world :)
http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/Administration?db=PFETrack&wmtemplate=PFETrack/templates/AdministrationList.wm&table=remarks
works!
Tommorrow create table specific templates.
night.
tim
','f','',154,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12184,'Thu Apr 29 13:51:13 1999','cvs update',1,0,'
Right,
I have sorted out cvs with new modules messageboard, and user.
I will not sort out these packages and hope to have a working messageboard demo by the end of the day
timj
','f','',154,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
155,'PMS','Paneris PMS List',8155,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/PMS/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/PMS/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12185,'Thu Sep 10 4:36:27 YYY 1998','Proposal for the Time Recording System (a component of the PMS)',2,0,'
This is the proposal for a Time Recording System. It is part of the larger
Project Management System which is envisaged. Some notes on the larger
system are added to the end of this message.
Time Recording System
---------------------
This proposed system is based on e-mail from Simon Tucker:
"Time Recording System" - 8/12/97
"Minimum Requirements for Web Project Information on Paneris Site" - 24/10/97
and on feedback to these documents from members of Paneris.
In this proposed system, there are 3 main entities which have the following
attributes:
1) Projects
- Project title (including I-Way\'s customer\'s name)
- Project type (development/maintenance/pre-sales/fixed price)
- Project Status (free-text notes)
- Booking Status (open or closed)
- Project team (and their roles)
- Contact details (inc. email group)
- Estimated start date (if applicable)
- Estimated work time for job elements (if applicable)
- Launch date (if applicable)
- Project Budget
- Job description
- Solutions/Applications used
2) People
- Name
- Address
- Organisation
- Telephone number
- e-mail address
- Default hourly rate
- ??? (skills, CV, etc ???)
3) People\'s timesheets (entered against projects)
- Person
- Date
- Time
- PO
- Activity
- Hours Spent
- Hourly rate
There will also be a transaction recording system which will keep logs
of how and when the system is used. This will allow us to have a
"What\'s New Since Your last visit" function.
We will also need an authentication and authorisation system that will
allow us to grade information according to its intended audience. This
will let us explicitly allow or disallow certain users from viewing certain
information, particularly I-Way customers. Initially, however, everyone
with a password will have access to all data.
Notice that each member of a project will have a role. This is necessary
for the future authentication system, and to allow for the fact that not
everyone invoices I-Way directly (for instance, TimJ and myself invoice
TimP for I-Way work, and he invoices I-Way). I-Way will obviously need to
see the total cost to them of any work (rather than the amount that each
worker will receive). The proposed roles are:
Customer (of Paneris) : Will always be I-Way
Customer Lead : Usually/always SimonT
Paneris Lead : Always TimP
Paneris Workers : anyone else in Paneris (MylesC, TimJ, ColinR etc).
This is coming at the whole system from a Paneris point of view. It is a
model of how we work together with I-Way. The system is general enough to
handle other I-Way outworkers and I-Way staff, however.
I-Way will keep track of their customers (Metrodata, etc) via POs and Project
Titles.
The main screen will have 3 sections:
1) Projects - view project details and timesheets/costs
(this will be augmented in time to allow us to view
projects\' messages or tasks, etc)
2) People - view peoples\' details and timesheets/costs
(this will be augmented in time to allow us to view
peoples\' diaries and tasks, etc)
3) Actions. For the Time Recording system, this will have 7 actions:
* Add new Project
* Add new Person
* Amend Project details
* Amend People details
* Add new timesheet
* Amend timesheet
* Create Invoice
I have quickly mocked up 2 different views for sections 1 and 2, and for
the "Add new Timesheet" form for section 3 on the Paneris Project Management
System pages at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/PMS/
Click on "Prototype pages" to see these demonstrations.
Notes
-----
1) The PO for a project is not explicitly output at the moment. We can easily
add it to the output screens after the name of the project (in the yellow
banners), if needed.
2) At the moment there is no separate section for maintainance contracts
as opposed to site developement contracts. It is envisaged that this
will be handled by having different PO numbers for the development and
maintenance activities, so they will appear as different "projects".
3) This system assumes that the only cost to I-Way from Paneris members is
for their time spent working. This might not be the case - Paneris might
need to charge I-Way for materials, for instance. This could be accomodated
by updating the idea of "Timesheet" to include such charges (so we would
have a "Chargesheet" for each person in a project). This could easily be
done by having different charge units other than just hours.
4) Invoices can be generated from the timesheet data, with a chance to add
extra information if necessary. Note that the timesheet view of projects
will only be a convient way to keep up to date with poject costs. Invoices
will be the final statement of costs to I-Way.
Technical Details
-----------------
Initially the system should be written in Perl and will use external databases
for at least the timesheet data. The other data (projects and people) would
probably be best handled by storing them in datafiles accessed directly by
Perl.
This inplementation should be built using an Object Oriented methodology to
give us an architecture for the system which can be easily extended in a
well-defined way.
Time Scales:
------------
Since the input and output screens have been designed, the work required is:
1) Add Timesheet entry script
2) Amend Timesheet script
3) Display Project script
4) Display People script
Each of these sections should take less than 1 day each. In total, this
should take 3 days.
Initially, we can set up the People and Projects data by hand, but we will
eventually also need:
5) Add/amend Project details - input form and script
6) Add/amend People details - input form and script
7) Create invoice - input form and script
These would take between 2 and 3 days in total.
Project Management System Overview
----------------------------------
The notes above apply to the Time Recording System. This is just one part of
a proposed Project Management system, which will include other components
such as
* A Diary for each person
* A Message Board for each project
* A "document park" for each project
* A Task list for each project/person
* An authentication/authorisation system
* A transaction logging system
These proposals for the Time Recording System takes the larger system into
account. The system is designed around a flexible structure which will we
will be able to add new functionality to in a well-defined manner. The larger
system is centred around three main sections:
1) Projects. View the following for any project:
* Project Summary
* Timesheets/chargesheets
* Messages
* Docuents
* Tasks
* New Info since you last visited
2) People. View the following for any person:
* Timesheets
* Invoices
* Diary
* Tasks
3) Actions. Perform any of the following actions:
* Add/amend a person\'s details
* Add/amend a project\'s details
* Add/amend a timesheet/chargesheet entry
* Create invoice
* Book time into a person\'s diary
* Add a task for someone for a project
* Post a message to a project
* Upload a document for a project
It is built the twin pillars of projects and people.
Guts: Database tables:
* People
* Projects
* Diaries
* Timesheets
* Invoices
* Tasks
* Messages
* Documents
* Transactions
* Peoples roles within projects
A set of "objects" or at least interface functions with consistent names/behaviour
for each table should be created to allow us to develop the system in a consistent
and well-defined manner.
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12186,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Small problems',3,0,'
It looks like there is a problem with the time recording app,
I was trying to add a time sheet for a new project
that I had successfully created.
Also there is still a missing ∧/table> in the \'show timesheets\',
I think.
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12187,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','PMS Code',3,0,'
I have installed CGI.pm on panerisdev and have exchanged
cgi-lib.pl for html_util.pl; which is a superset.
Everything still works as far as i can see.
I have embedded a link for my current customer and
generally think that it is great.
What are we going to do about change control?
yours aye
TimP
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12188,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: PMS Code',1,12187,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by TimP
Boys,
I have added a change control table, and a little code that displays the top
frome with bgcolor=red if the most recent change has the locked flag set.
hope this helps
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 171 642 1650
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12189,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Data analysis',3,0,'
can we chat about the data model for PMS?
I find \'Simon tucker\' in the customer contact box
for customers but can\'t add \'Richard Akroyd\' ?
whats what?
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12190,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Data analysis',3,12189,'
Now I\'m inclined to think Hoop shouldn\'t be
in the customers table.
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12191,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Help',3,0,'
What is going on with the \'taskdate\' is it american?
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12192,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Help',3,12191,'
Also can with have ordering by key on the timesheets?
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12193,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Data analysis',1,12189,'
you need to add richard to the people table
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12194,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:02 1999','Re: Data analysis',1,12190,'
umm, you are probably right, but it follows the paneris site, and it does group data nicely. If you wan\'t to move things arround on paneris, i\'m happy
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12195,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:02 1999','Re: Help',1,12191,'
no, normal date, what is your problem?
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12196,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:02 1999','Re: Help',1,12192,'
What key?
At present the order is by date, which seems reasonable.
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12197,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:02 1999','enhancement to pm system',1,0,'
I have added some code so that when you call pm_table.pl, you can give it some selection criteria eg the following string works:
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/PM/cgi-bin/pm_table.pl?table=tasks&projects_description_project=Valpak
this should help integration into the paneris site.
tim, how do I get this post to cc chippy and others as well as you.
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12198,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:02 1999','Re: Small problems',1,12186,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by TimP
Tim,
>
>It looks like there is a problem with the time recording app,
>I was trying to add a time sheet for a new project
>that I had successfully created.
did you ente a valid looking date?
>
>Also there is still a missing ∧/table> in the \'show timesheets\',
>I think.
>
where?
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12199,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:02 1999','Added Droplists for certain fields to the PMS',2,0,'
Dear all,
I have modified the pm_timesheet.pl Application to display
people and projects droplists at the top of the page so that
you can select the appropriate list of timesheets to view.
I have also altered pm_table.pl to do the same thing for general
tables. The problem then is that it doesn\'t always make sense
to be able to choose a field - for instance the budget field in
the tasks table. So I have got a little lookup table to list which
fields should _NOT_ have drop lists. I had a debate (with TimP)
about whether this should be in an .ini file, a (perl) db file,
a table in our pm database, or just in the source. I went the
last way (for efficiency).
So, the data is in pm_tables.pl, in the form:
<pre>
$non_selectable_fields{\'people\'} = {name=>1, email=>1};
</pre>
Here are the source comments about this:
<pre>
# Fields that should not have drop boxes are listed here
#
# Each (scalar) value of %non_selectable_fields is set to be a reference to
# an anonymous hash table. The value associated with a $field in a $table
# can be retrieved with : ${$non_selectable_fields{$table}}{$field}
</pre>
if you need more on referencing and dereferencing, try the
<A HREF="http://www.paneris.co.uk/reference/perldocs/index.htm">Perlref page</A>
in the Perl documentation.
We could extend this in the future, if we need it, to store more details about
fields in tables, such as if you can order by them.
I have also made some cosmetic changes (the instructions at the top
of a table listing, and added borders to same).
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12200,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Database access (from Perl)',3,0,'
Hi,
We have developed a number of perl applications to
manipulate databases.
We use perl dbi.pm and so the code will work with most
databases including miniSQL and MS Access.
I was told on the telephone that you have plans to
offer DB access.
When do you hope to have done this by?
Do you need any technical assistance?
yours
Tim Pizey
Context Computing
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12201,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Added Droplists for certain fields to the PMS',1,12199,'
Strikes me that we would only ever want drop-downs on fileds that have look-ups, can we simply do =~ /_/ to spot the fields where we want dropdowns.
This keeps the control in the DB. I am hesitant to get into .ini files at this stage, although I think we will eventually have to do something along these lines.
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12202,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Added Droplists for certain fields to the PMS',2,12201,'
Tim,
I can\'t remember why I extended it to give droplists for non-linked
fields - there was a reason! Anyway, there are still link fields that
we do not want to select (\'locked\' in \'changes\'). Since it\'s done, I\'ll
leave it for the while, but it can obviously be changed.
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12203,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Added Droplists for certain fields to the PMS',1,12202,'
I will have a crack at it this afternoon, although I cant see any reason why \'locked\' in \'changes\' would suffer paticularly from having a drop-down
Tim
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12204,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','more enhancements',1,0,'
I have messed arround a bit:
1) remove hard coding for selection drop-downs, we now simply relay for selection on fields with look-ups.
2) amended to code to maintain the item selected in a lookup through the updating process. If you select Tim\'s timesheets, and then update one, the list still displays tims timesheets after the update.
3) started a project status report, i\'ll finish this off tomorrow
4) added totals to all numeric fields.
5) added code to prevent updates to the db when amendments are being made.
thats all (i think)
tim
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12205,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','tastey little report',1,0,'
I have written a nice little report that gives the status of projects by matching timesheets with tasks/budgets.
Please take a look.
Chippy, Action file seem to running over a little, are things OK?
TimJ
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12206,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','new fields for tasks',1,0,'
I have updated the tasks table to allow for more fields (i needs for bloomsbury tasks).
Tim - when we create a new project, can we auto generate the folling entries:
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/PM/cgi-bin/pm_table.pl?table=tasks&projects_description_project=Bloomsbury
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/PM/cgi-bin/pm_timesheets.pl?project=Bloomsbury
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/PM/cgi-bin/pm_project_report.pl?projects=Bloomsbury
Have a look, it\'s begining to come together
Tim
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12207,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Timesheet broken',3,0,'
My timesheet link is broken (http://www.paneris.co.uk/projects/catalyst/NS/)
So is the project report.
Also a problem with a left over quote?
starting to look good :)
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12208,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Timesheet broken',1,12207,'
Sorry,
Timesheets now fixed.
Please be advised the pm_timesheets.pl now takes input in the URL as:
people=<person>&projects=<project>
NOT
person=<person>&project=<project>
this is to bring in-line with new standards :), and makes more logical sense.
TimJ
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12209,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Timesheet broken',1,12207,'
Sorry,
Timesheets now fixed.
Please be advised the pm_timesheets.pl now takes input in the URL as:
people=(person)&projects=(project)
NOT
person=(person)&project=(project)
this is to bring in-line with new standards :), and makes more logical sense.
TimJ
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12210,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','New and Improved Project Report',2,0,'
I have altered the Project Report so that it is a bit more compact. Hopefully it
looks nicer too. I have added some links to add/amend tasks and add timesheets from
the report, which I know that I would have liked in the past!
Whilst amending my paneris page (to point to my new home page - check it out!),
I added the following link to the Person report for me:
<A HREF="http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/pm/cgi-bin/pm_person.pl?person=Myles+Chippendale">My details</A>
(which has to be hard coded because Paneris doesn\'t know the name of the person on the PMS :-(
From there I can do my PMS management change control, and it has links to reports for the
projects I work on. From the report I can do any project management I need involving tasks
and timesheets (but it would be nice if pm_edit.pl returned me to the report I called it
from...)
So, aside from amendents, the only things that you can\'t do from either the Project report
or the Person report is add customers, projects or people. But then, of course, you would
create them on Paneris, and the node creation script will give you nice handy links to
create the relevant record in the PM System. Feels good :-)
Development thoughts:
---------------------
<UL>
<LI>I think we can go a step further than &generate_select, and have a selection with an
\'All\' entry, the current default selected, (and perhaps a \'New...\' which will whip you
off to pm_edit when it is caught by the relevant script...? What do you think?)
<LI>In fact, I think that what we need is a generic parameter (URL) parsing function which
will squirrel away any field restrictions (e.g. people=5) into variables of a sensible
name (the same as the field name) and convert automatically between names and ids (for
people and projects especially) and also to handle options for that report (delete/list etc).
We\'d know where we stood then :-) (Although it is incredibly easy to pass the paramters into
the scripts at the moment - very easy to add a \'Add Task\' link, for instance. But the reports
seems a bit inconsistent between the generic scripts and the reports...)
<LI>An extension to this would be to specify, via paramters:
<UL>
<LI>If we want a \'plain\' listbox
<LI>If we wanted to have an \'All\' entry
<LI>If we wanted to have a \'New...\' entry
<LI>Whether we want to restrict a SELECT by the value of a field, or whether
that value should just be "passed on" (for instance, if you click on a
project from the Person report, you see everyone\'s timesheet. But it would
be nice to pass in the name of the person from which you accessed the report
so that you could automatically select them when you add a timesheet to
the project
</UL>
<LI>Actually, the last one would be better to do by having a little script
that allows you to \'register\' and which gives you a cookie. We can then always
know which person is calling a script and by default select that person in drop
down lists (unless $person is set)
<LI>We need to escape single quotes in text fields (in &query/&query2)
<LI>I still need to do the transaction recording bit...
</UL>
Any comments?
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12211,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: New and Improved Project Report',1,12210,'
<ul>I have altered the Project Report so that it is a bit more compact. Hopefully it
looks nicer too. I have added some links to add/amend tasks and add timesheets from
the report, which I know that I would have liked in the past!
</ul>
Very nice, a big improvement.
<ul>Whilst amending my paneris page (to point to my new home page - check it out!),
<ul>
Cool.
<ul>
I added the following link to the Person report for me:
My details
(which has to be hard coded because Paneris doesn\'t know the name of the person on the PMS :-(
From there I can do my PMS management change control, and it has links to reports for the
projects I work on. From the report I can do any project management I need involving tasks
and timesheets (but it would be nice if pm_edit.pl returned me to the report I called it
from...)
</ul>
OK, I\'ll do this, you will need to amend the calling URL needs to have return=http://etc..
<ul>
I think we can go a step further than &generate_select, and have a selection with an
\'All\' entry, the current default selected, (and perhaps a \'New...\' which will whip you
off to pm_edit when it is caught by the relevant script...? What do you think?)
In fact, I think that what we need is a generic parameter (URL) parsing function which
will squirrel away any field restrictions (e.g. people=5) into variables of a sensible
name (the same as the field name) and convert automatically between names and ids (for
people and projects especially) and also to handle options for that report (delete/list etc).
We\'d know where we stood then :-) (Although it is incredibly easy to pass the paramters into
the scripts at the moment - very easy to add a \'Add Task\' link, for instance. But the reports
seems a bit inconsistent between the generic scripts and the reports...)
An extension to this would be to specify, via paramters:
If we want a \'plain\' listbox
If we wanted to have an \'All\' entry
If we wanted to have a \'New...\' entry
Whether we want to restrict a SELECT by the value of a field, or whether
that value should just be "passed on" (for instance, if you click on a
project from the Person report, you see everyone\'s timesheet. But it would
be nice to pass in the name of the person from which you accessed the report
so that you could automatically select them when you add a timesheet to
the project
Actually, the last one would be better to do by having a little script
that allows you to \'register\' and which gives you a cookie. We can then always
know which person is calling a script and by default select that person in drop
down lists (unless $person is set)
</ul>
Bit confused, the selection criteria should be maintained, and translation between numbers and names should already be automatic. On the person report, for the projects links, try:
pm_project_report.pl?projects=Valpak&people=Myles+Chippendale
should work. Is this what you meant?
<ul>
We need to escape single quotes in text fields (in &query/&query2)
</ul>
pain, but i\'ll have a hack
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12212,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','add refering url',1,0,'
You can now specify a refering URL when calling pm_table.pl, and pm_edit.pl. I can understand the problem with specifying input on the URL, in some instances, we enter \'people=Tim+Joyce\', and others we have \'people_name_person=Tim+Joyce\' which do you prefer.
Tim
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12213,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: add refering url',2,12212,'
There are some cases where it is not sensible to use the
table_field_displayname format, for instance on the Person
report (the script looks in several of the tables to pick
out the projects/timesheets etc associated with a person.
Should we only use \'people=\' and \'project=\'? And each table
can only have one link to each table (\'cos it goes to the
primary key). Is that right? If so, we could get away without
using \'table_field_displayname=\' and just use \'table=\'. Sound
sensible?
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12214,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Rudientary Registration',2,0,'
Dear all,
If you point your browser at pm_register.pl you will be presented with a
drop list of people. If you choose one (yourself!) and click the \'register\'
button, then you will be sent a cookie containing your id in the people table.
I have added a function to pm_lib.pl called get_cookie_person which returns
the id of the person calling the script, if they have set their cookie in the
way outlined above (empty string otherwise).
Currently, this is used whenever you are adding a new record which requires you
to select a person - your name will be automatically selected (this is in pm_edit.pl)
It is also used by the Timesheet and Person report applications. When you call the
scripts, they will not present you with the list boxes, instead they will assume that
you want to view your own timesheets or details.
I will combine this with the transaction recording system (to come) to give you a
personalised "What\'s new" list for the site. It can also form the basis of any
security system we might want to implement.
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
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12215,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Passing/Selecting Form variables',2,0,'
I have added a function in pm_lib.pl which can be used to parse
input from forms. The way to use it is:
$return_path = "pm_my_report.pl?";
$project = &get_passed_value("projects", "description");
$id = &get_passed_value("id");
.
.
.
$return_path=~s/([^a-zA-Z0-9_\-.])/uc sprintf("%%%02x",ord($1))/eg;
The first call to $get_passed_value (with 2 arguments) will
1) Read the value of $input{\'project\'}
2) Convert this to an id if it is the textual form
(that is way we need "description")
3) Append the correct parameter to $return_string
4) Passes out the value (or id) of the parameter
The second form (one argument) only reads inputs (doesn\'t do table lookups)
If you want to set the person from the cookie (if it hasn\'t
already been set) include the following before the last line
(the $return_path =~ s/...) with suitable amendments
if (!$person && !$project && !$invoice && !$list) {
$person = &get_cookie_person;
$return_path .= "people=$person";
}
I have altered the three reports (timesheets, people, projects).
I have also added a $print_select_compact.
See $print_selection and $print_selection_compact in the reports
to see how they work.
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12216,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','New calendar system added',2,0,'
Dear all,
I have put up a new calendar system which prints out a month
(depending on the date you input) and currently lists:
1) Timesheets for the selected person in that month
2) Any tasks with \'taskdate\' in that month
Click on the Calendar application, or from the person report.
Comments
--------
1) At the minute, you must choose a person - you cannot see everyone\'s timesheets.
How sensible is that? Any thoughts?
2) Taskdate doesn\'t seem very useful. I assume that this is intended to be the date
that the task was started (given a PO?). I think we need a task ToBeFinishedBy
date (or something similar) which would be very useful on the calendar.
3) Everyone sees all the tasks at the minute. We can restrict this so that people
only see tasks for a project that they have already worked on (...?) or, just by the
project manager. Do either of these seem better? (What if no-one has done work on
a project with a rapidly approaching deadline? What if I miss a deadline because
I am not the project manager for the project I should be working on?)
Do we need to have a "working-on" table linking projects/tasks and people?
4) When we create an "appointments" table with:
id
people_name_person
Date
Event
?Time?
then it will take a very small amount of work to create a functioning
diary system from the calendar (Action: TimJ)
I have also updated the person and project reports. Let me know if they\'re OK.
In particular, do we need a "don\'t show any timesheets" checkbox for the project
report?
I have also junked print_select_compact (that lasted a long time!) and changed
print_select so that it only prints out the select box itself (and you specify
which entry is selected), i.e. it doesn\'t print any <td>\'s etc. print_selection
and print_selection_compact in the reports now handle all the formatting.
Let me know any comments,
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12217,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Invoice records',2,0,'
TimJ,
At present the March Iway invoice has the lowest id of the
invoice records, effective meaning that it the default invoice
for all new timesheets. Could you delete it and re-add it
(altering relevant records) so that "Not Done" is the default?
Thanks,
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
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12218,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','New menu to the PMS',2,0,'
Try:
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/pm/index2.html
You should get a parred-down menu at the top (what was pm_manage.pl)
with an imitation of tabs for 3 reports. If you delete your panerisdev
cookie, then you\'ll see an invitation to visitors to register (you
get your "person" page if you\'re registered).
I haven\'t written the help page yet (or added the log of transactions) :-(
I would quite like this to be the default interface to the system (particularly
for visitors), i.e. move index2.html to index.html
Looking forward to your comments,
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
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12219,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: New menu to the PMS',1,12218,'
Love it, make it live. excellent calendar!!!
Not sure the calendar is working for people (it showed me some of timps tasks.
Good work
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12220,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Invoice records',1,12217,'
done
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12221,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','task dates',1,0,'
Proposal: Each task to have 2 dates, target completion date, and completion date. current taskdate to be renamed \'target completion date\'.
Any comments (you have 24hours) :o}
Tim
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12222,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: task dates',3,12221,'
There are two problems with out Task Ontology:
1) Tasks are not assigned to a person, so there is
no way that they can be properly included in
people\'s calendars.
2) It doesn\'t follow the data structure in the existing
To do Lists so we cannot port/junk/update them.
I reckon that the abstract, \'non-assigned\' task is a fiction,
and that the person who is in mind should be made explicit.
If there really is a need for fictional or temporary person-entities,
then it would be easier to assign tasks to them, and we have the
mechanisms for creating these fictions.
So I suggest that tasks get a person ID but, when required,
that person can be \'undecided-role-1\';
you may remember that I have been keen on formal
role definitions for a while.
The above implies that you have to be able to change
the person, but we can do that.
Anyway, back to task data structure.
TimJ proposes:
Task ID
Task Description
Target Completion date
Completion Date
The only difference between this and the ToDo List
data stucture is the absense of the Estimate Completion date.
What is the point of the Estimate?
Well, what we want in two years time is a corpus of project data
where the original estimates can be compared to the actual completion dates.
TimJ does not make it clear how he sees his two dates being used,
but I imagine that the first date (Target Completion) should not change;
if so then there is a very important time (the life time of the project)
when we don\'t know the current estimate; but if we update the
current estimate (Target Completion Date) then we loose the original estimate.
If we use the Completion Date to reflect current estimate then we mislead
ourselves into thinking the task is finished.
The data I guess we really want is a full track of estimated completion dates
from start to finish, but this is probably overkill.
Hence i suggest the three fields, possibly backed up by a
transaction log.
ie:
Initial Estimate
Current Estimate
Completion
This gives an imidiate feel for the
pressure of the task and a simple measure of our estimating
ability, both during and after the project.
Remember, for fixed priced jobs, it is the accuracy of
the initial esimates which determines profitability.
Yours
TimP
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12223,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: task dates',1,12222,'
Tim,
>There are two problems with out Task Ontology:
>
>1) Tasks are not assigned to a person, so there is
> no way that they can be properly included in
> people\'s calendars.
I think that it is important that the calendar shows tasks that are relevant to the viewer, eg as chippys project manager for valpak, I would like to see all his tasks for the valpak project.
>
>2) It doesn\'t follow the data structure in the existing
> To do Lists so we cannot port/junk/update them.
only the dates don\'t match, which is what we are tackeling
>
>I reckon that the abstract, \'non-assigned\' task is a fiction,
>and that the person who is in mind should be made explicit.
i strongly disagree, we already have tasks on the system that have timesheets for more than one person - see Valpak.
>
>If there really is a need for fictional or temporary person-entities,
>then it would be easier to assign tasks to them, and we have the
>mechanisms for creating these fictions.
people are real.
>
>So I suggest that tasks get a person ID but, when required,
>that person can be \'undecided-role-1\';
>you may remember that I have been keen on formal
>role definitions for a while.
>
>The above implies that you have to be able to change
>the person, but we can do that.
I disagree, I feel we should assign a team to a project, timesheets con only be entered for people from the team, and the calendar will report all tasks to each member of the team.
>
>Anyway, back to task data structure.
>
>TimJ proposes:
>
>Task ID
>Task Description
>Target Completion date
>Completion Date
>
>The only difference between this and the ToDo List
>data stucture is the absense of the Estimate Completion date.
>
>What is the point of the Estimate?
>
>Well, what we want in two years time is a corpus of project data
>where the original estimates can be compared to the actual completion dates.
>
>TimJ does not make it clear how he sees his two dates being used,
>but I imagine that the first date (Target Completion) should not change;
>if so then there is a very important time (the life time of the project)
>when we don\'t know the current estimate; but if we update the
>current estimate (Target Completion Date) then we loose the original estimate.
>If we use the Completion Date to reflect current estimate then we mislead
>ourselves into thinking the task is finished.
>
>The data I guess we really want is a full track of estimated completion dates
>from start to finish, but this is probably overkill.
>
>Hence i suggest the three fields, possibly backed up by a
>transaction log.
>
>ie:
>
>Initial Estimate
>Current Estimate
>Completion
>
>This gives an imidiate feel for the
>pressure of the task and a simple measure of our estimating
>ability, both during and after the project.
>
>Remember, for fixed priced jobs, it is the accuracy of
>the initial esimates which determines profitability.
um, i feel the profitability is best measured by comparing hours spent to budgeted hours. i feel dates are much less significant. i feel that estimates are bound to change, is there very much value in knowing that impaired life should have been completed last summer?
i just don\'t want the system to get confusing...
Later
Tim
','f','',155,0,0);
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12224,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: task dates',2,12223,'
FWIW, I agree with TimJ on the idea of somehow attaching people to tasks:
we should have a new table ("projectgroups"?, "workgroups"?) which will
collect several people. We can link from projects to an entry in this
table. This allows anyone on that list to see all relevant data, and we
can a distibution list for e-mail (bound to happen soon...) for free.
On the subject of Task dates, I think that what we are worrying about is
two things : having an estimate of when any task will be completed during
the lifetime of the project, and recording all potentially useful
information (without over-complicating the system for us and customers).
I personally have not put time limits on any tasks, but it\'s early days
so who knows what will be needed. I sort of agree with TimJ that the
time spent is the important consideration (remember, with fixed price
contracts it\'s the accuracy of the original quote that matters), but I
think that\'s because time management of projects has not been the most
important factor to date.
In short, I\'ll go with any combination of task dates, but feel that we
should associate people with projects rather than with tasks.
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
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12225,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: task dates',3,12223,'
>>
>>I reckon that the abstract, \'non-assigned\' task is a fiction,
>>and that the person who is in mind should be made explicit.
>i strongly disagree, we already have tasks on the system that have timesheets for more than one person - see Valpak.
Having looked at the multi-person tasks I still think that tasks should be allocated to one person.
The tasks where there are multiple people booked against them seem to be too broad or mis-bookings.
However this is something we can debate forever. The point is that \'build site\' is not a very fine level of granularity.
People always have responsibility for a particular task, the question is whether we are measuring their fulfillment of that
responsibility, by not giving one person ownership of a task we are allowing \'slope shoulders\' or \'falling between two stools\'.
However, I am all in favour of \'team lists\' for projects, possibly with roles assigned.
>>If there really is a need for fictional or temporary person-entities,
>>then it would be easier to assign tasks to them, and we have the
>>mechanisms for creating these fictions.
>people are real.
Says who? :)
When planning a job involving people who we have not recruited,
or one where the roles are not yet assigned to real people fictional people
such as \'typist1\', \'typist2\', \'typist3\' etc might be very useful/necessary.
>>So I suggest that tasks get a person ID but, when required,
>>that person can be \'undecided-role-1\';
>>you may remember that I have been keen on formal
>>role definitions for a while.
>>
>>The above implies that you have to be able to change
>>the person, but we can do that.
>I disagree, I feel we should assign a team to a
>project, timesheets can only be entered for people from the team,
>and the calendar will report all tasks to each member of the team.
There is not necessarily a conflict here. We can have \'project teams\'
(with roles, hence moving the project lead out of the project table) and
still require that tasks are allocated to individuals.
I like the division of \'Tasks\' into \'work done\' chunks via the time recoring system,
but cannot see why two people should book to the same task. I think it muddies the water,
especially when the two people might have different ideas as to what the task description
is meant to cover. I reckon people define their part of the project in terms (task names)
that they understand, commit to acheiving them on time and in budget and the system reports
to them how well they are doing, they can still see other tasks on
their projects, so no conflict.
>>
>>Anyway, back to task data structure.
>>
>>TimJ proposes:
>>
>>Task ID
>>Task Description
>>Target Completion date
>>Completion Date
>>
>>The only difference between this and the ToDo List
>>data stucture is the absense of the Estimate Completion date.
>>
>>What is the point of the Estimate?
>>
>>Well, what we want in two years time is a corpus of project data
>>where the original estimates can be compared to the actual completion dates.
>>
>>TimJ does not make it clear how he sees his two dates being used,
>>but I imagine that the first date (Target Completion) should not change;
>>if so then there is a very important time (the life time of the project)
>>when we don\'t know the current estimate; but if we update the
>>current estimate (Target Completion Date) then we loose the original estimate.
>>If we use the Completion Date to reflect current estimate then we mislead
>>ourselves into thinking the task is finished.
>>
>>The data I guess we really want is a full track of estimated completion dates
>>from start to finish, but this is probably overkill.
>>
>>Hence i suggest the three fields, possibly backed up by a
>>transaction log.
>>
>>ie:
>>
>>Initial Estimate
>>Current Estimate
>>Completion
>>
>>This gives an imidiate feel for the
>>pressure of the task and a simple measure of our estimating
>>ability, both during and after the project.
>>
>>Remember, for fixed priced jobs, it is the accuracy of
>>the initial esimates which determines profitability.
>um, i feel the profitability is best measured by
>comparing hours spent to budgeted hours.
Definitely, and in fact I was talking crap.
However we have been criticised for lateness on USN
and Grolier, both of which might have benefitted from a
measure of how wrong our real-date estimates were.
I constantly encounter unrealistic expectations from customers and
would love to have some data which SHOWED that my estimates were
realistic and their hopes were flawed.
>i feel dates are much less significant.
>i feel that estimates are bound to change,
>is there very much value in knowing that impaired life should have been
>completed last summer?
Well yes, it shows that it is a flawed project.
>
>i just don\'t want the system to get confusing...
What I want is a foundation on which we can move toward more comprehensive
project management tools (a goal might be to copy MS Project?).
At the moment the task table contains:
ID
Date
Description
Status
Budget
I think it should be:
ID
Original Target Date
Current Target Date
Completion Date
Description
Status
Budget
The status field is not \'necessary\' if we have a completion date ,
but what the heck.
Similarly we might need other units for the budget, ie money or days,
but hours is fine for the moment.
It would be quite easy to produce a report of tasks with
unrealistic Current Target dates.
yours aye
TimP
','f','',155,0,0);
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12226,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: task dates',1,12225,'
Tim
>
>Having looked at the multi-person tasks I still think that tasks should be allocated to one person.
>The tasks where there are multiple people booked against them seem to be too broad or mis-bookings.
>However this is something we can debate forever. The point is that \'build site\' is not a very fine level of granularity.
it is a level of granuality i am very happy to work at.
>People always have responsibility for a particular task, the question is whether we are measuring their fulfillment of that
>responsibility, by not giving one person ownership of a task we are allowing \'slope shoulders\' or \'falling between two stools\'.
this has not happened, and I don\'t anticipate it occuring. There are instances where a task is started by one person and completed by another. there is nothing wrong with this.
>
>However, I am all in favour of \'team lists\' for projects, possibly with roles assigned.
yep
>
>When planning a job involving people who we have not recruited,
>or one where the roles are not yet assigned to real people fictional people
>such as \'typist1\', \'typist2\', \'typist3\' etc might be very useful/necessary.
agreed
>
>There is not necessarily a conflict here. We can have \'project teams\'
>(with roles, hence moving the project lead out of the project table) and
>still require that tasks are allocated to individuals.
>I like the division of \'Tasks\' into \'work done\' chunks via the time recoring system,
>but cannot see why two people should book to the same task. I think it muddies the water,
>especially when the two people might have different ideas as to what the task description
>is meant to cover. I reckon people define their part of the project in terms (task names)
>that they understand, commit to acheiving them on time and in budget and the system reports
>to them how well they are doing, they can still see other tasks on
>their projects, so no conflict.
I agree that tasks should be generally handled by an individual, i just don\'t want to prescribe it.
>What I want is a foundation on which we can move toward more comprehensive
>project management tools (a goal might be to copy MS Project?).
serious? thought not.
>
>ID
>Original Target Date
>Current Target Date
>Completion Date
>Description
>Status
>Budget
>
you got your dates, can we keep people out of tasks?
TimJ
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12227,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Where are we going...',2,0,'
Boys,
When we were talking about these Task dates, the main reason for
having three was so that we could change the target date and not
loose too much information. But what if we wanted to do the same
with task budgets as well? Should we add extra fields for budgets,
or would this be infrequent enough so that we could rely on the
transaction database (and is this a reason to make sure that the
transaction log - which could get very large - should be a table
itself?).
Although the question is a serious one, I don\'t really want an
answer to it, it\'s just that it illustrates that we don\'t really
know what we want the PMS to be. At the minute it allows us to
record our tasks with some date and budget constraints, and to
enter timesheets against them. We can obviously view that data
from a number of angles. I suspect that Tim wasn\'t joking when
he said we re-create MS Project in the PMS, and I agree, up to
a point.
One suggestion is a report which will look at the number of days
left in each task assigned to you, the amount of time before
each Task has to be done and tell you whether you have too much
work on, and whether any of your deadlines are unrealistic.
Whilst this could well be useful, I suspect that for how often
it happens/will happen, it would be better sending the time on
doing the work rather than writing the code to tell us we\'ve
got too much work! And that, I think is the point. How much of
what we do, and could possibly do, should be automated in the
system? How much of Project do we need?
My feeling is that with the kind of projects we are involved in
with small numbers of people and not very much work "in parallel",
it\'s easier and more efficient to let humans do the PM work -
have it in their heads. I can\'t think of a lot more automated
PM stuff that I would need, myself - maybe a tighter integration
with Invoices.
In short, I think that we could add loads of stuff which might
be useful, but to what ends? What is the PMS for and what do we
need to do to it to make sure that it works in the way we want?
Hope this wasn\'t _too_ obvious,
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
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12228,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Where are we going...',1,12227,'
>
>In short, I think that we could add loads of stuff which might
>be useful, but to what ends? What is the PMS for and what do we
>need to do to it to make sure that it works in the way we want?
>
It is there as a tool that helps our business function. The point about the system is that it is flexable and RAD, when we need new functionality, we add it, and move on.
It is designed to complement the totally flexable paneris site, and I feel it should work in a similar way.
I think that we have a system that we can use to sell a PM system. Then we can get valuable input from a potential customer, we can design a \'proper\' system (formally).
The system as is should be just left to drift. Wehere are we going?....
Everywhere and nowhere baby, just wait and see.
Go with the flow.
TimJ
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12229,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Update to Project Report',2,0,'
Dear all,
The project report has changed:
1) Projects without tasks are displayed
2) There is a "compact" option for the projects and tasks which will supress
the printing of a project with no visible tasks, or a tasks with no visible
timesheets.
Example uses would be to select timesheets on the I-way April invoice and
click "compact" for tasks and projects to only see projects/tasks/timesheets
involved with the I-way April invoice.
Another example would be to select "In progress" tasks and click on "compact"
for projects to only see projects in progress. Not that you can combine this
with "customers" to see, for instance, all of I-Way\'s open projects/tasks.
3) There are some JavaScript handlers on the controls to suggest sensible defaults.
For instance, if you set "projects" and "customers" to "all" then "Compact" is
automatically selected to prevent a huge printout.
To do this I have extend print_select in pm_lib.pl and added query3, again to pm_lib.pl.
This means that we now open 3 connections to the database, even if we only use 1. Needs
changing.
Also, we still can\'t see which invoice a timesheet belongs to. This would need a
fourth connection, I think, due to problems with retreiving 2 id fields in one select
statement - this need investigating.
We still haven\'t got the transaction log working, although all we need is to change
permissions on a directory...
regards,
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
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12230,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','pm_calendar.pl functionality request',3,0,'
It would be nice to be able to add holidays, birthdays etc to
a calendar. This would presumably be an additional table
with person, date and event.
yours
tim
','f','',155,0,0);
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12231,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Invoicing system',3,0,'
All,
Please we continue to use the old invoicing system until the new one is through beta.
Why is there no unit field?
Why is there an additional \'invoice number\' ?
(Well I think I know the answer, but then why is there a ref field).
Can we please have some data validataion rules.
(I suggest ref = person+ number).
TimJ, please deal with ref=timj21 from context computing.
If you put URLs into descriptions then the system crashes,
but all of my invoices have URLS in them .
What format should I produce converted , old invoices in (CSV)?
Why have we got an \'update\' when the rest of the PMS
uses the record number as the update key?
Do the invoices know which \'people\' they are relevant to?
Is there any benefit in enabling people to personalise invoices?
Do we need to build in VAT at this point?
yours
timP
','f','',155,0,0);
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12232,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Invoicing system',1,12231,'
>All,
>
>Please we continue to use the old invoicing system until the new one is through beta.
Although you are all encouraged to become beta testers.
>
>Why is there no unit field?
I didn\'t feel the need for one, totalling quantities makes no sense as the numbers have no units, so I felt that a text field would suit, and contain the full information ie "6.25 hours" or "50%" or "3 days".
>
>Why is there an additional \'invoice number\' ?
>(Well I think I know the answer, but then why is there a ref field).
>Can we please have some data validataion rules.
>(I suggest ref = person+ number).
They serve slightly different purposes. Invoice number is automaticlly incremented (change the last used number on the partners table). This number will be used by clients to referenece the invoice.
The reference field is Text and is designed to identify the invoice when it needs to be selected from say a drop down list (eg when assigning a timesheet to an invoice). This field can be use to describe the invoices (eg I-way May 1998). I think this is useful?
>
>TimJ, please deal with ref=timj21 from context computing.
done
>
>If you put URLs into descriptions then the system crashes,
>but all of my invoices have URLS in them .
umm, I suspect this is a weakness of the entire PMS. I basically havn\'t worked out how to escape \' and " so they can be inserted into access (the DBI call when using Acesss ("e())? crashed in 0.91, it may be a good idea to upgrade to 1.01)
>
>What format should I produce converted , old invoices in (CSV)?
For import into PMS? Probably a good idea, Access has a wizard for csv.
>
>Why have we got an \'update\' when the rest of the PMS
>uses the record number as the update key?
to distinguish from "display" which is the same as the old "print" - too many customers said there printer didn\'t print when they pressed print in the old system.
>
>Do the invoices know which \'people\' they are relevant to?
Invoices relate to partners and timesheets, so no. Do they need to?
>
>Is there any benefit in enabling people to personalise invoices?
Not for me, anyone else?
>
>Do we need to build in VAT at this point?
Umm, 2 minds. VAT would be useful to auto calculate, but also could cause hassle. I guess the best option is only to calculate the VAT when initially entering the invoice, and not to recalculate when reentering, could this cause problems? Thoughts?
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12233,'Wed Sep 15 16:36:01 1999','Re: Invoicing system',1,12231,'
>If you put URLs into descriptions then the system crashes,
>but all of my invoices have URLS in them .
Fixed (hopefully).
TimJ
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12234,'Sun Sep 20 22:42:49 1998','Project Report: timesheet entry enhancement request',3,0,'
It would be nice if the \'enter timesheet\' url on the
project report remembered who i am.
yours
TimP
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12235,'Mon Sep 21 10:54:58 1998','Re: Project Report: timesheet entry enhancement request',2,12234,'
>It would be nice if the \'enter timesheet\' url on the
>project report remembered who i am.
>yours
>TimP
It should do. Can you give more detailed information about when it
doesn\'t. BTW, is there any way that you can use cookies to set the
multiboard replies \'cos even more boring than having to enter your
details every time is having to remove TimP\'s details first :-)
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12236,'Mon Sep 21 15:26:53 1998','Re: Re: Project Report: timesheet entry enhancement request',3,12235,'
>>It would be nice if the \'enter timesheet\' url on the
>>project report remembered who i am.
>>yours
>>TimP
>It should do. Can you give more detailed information about when it
>doesn\'t.
I cannot reproduce it, it remembered this time.........
>BTW, is there any way that you can use cookies to set the
>multiboard replies \'cos even more boring than having to enter your
>details every time is having to remove TimP\'s details first :-)
Will do ASAP, though you are the only person this affects.
TimP
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12237,'Mon Jan 4 10:26:09 1999','database restore',1,0,'
All,
Please note I have rolled back the PM database to 22/12/1998 as we appeard to have some corruption over xmas (someone deleted the i-way partner entry). As I don\'t know what other damage may have been done, I have decided to roll back. I couldn\'t see any recent xactions apart for from jenny\'s (which I have restored), but if you have made any recent changes, please remake them.
This system needs to be more secure, but I am torn between implementing the iglu code (quick and dirty) or waiting for newbox and doing it all in wasp (long and neat).
TimJ
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12238,'Tue Mar 23 14:41:55 1999','Invoices',103,0,'Posted on behalf of MarionH by TimP
Tim
We had a visit from the contributions agency this morning. He looked through
all the invoices etc and made some remarks about your invoices. Didnt like
them being on the web not being proper headed paper or without company
details such as registered office etc.
Just thought you might like to be prepared should they draw your name out of
a hat as he told us.
Marion
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12239,'Tue Mar 23 14:48:53 1999','Re: Invoices',3,12238,'
>Tim
>We had a visit from the contributions agency this morning. He looked through
>all the invoices etc and made some remarks about your invoices. Didnt like
>them being on the web not being proper headed paper or without company
>details such as registered office etc.
I am a bit worried about this, but not much.
>Just thought you might like to be prepared should they draw your name out of
>a hat as he told us.
Thankyou, I expect they will be calling on me next.
Where can I get an example that shows what information
I am not suplying on the invoice.
(Do you have an example in Croner\'s Model Contracts?)
yours
TimP
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12240,'Tue Mar 23 15:07:43 1999','Re: Re: Invoices',1,12239,'
>>Tim
>>We had a visit from the contributions agency this morning. He looked through
>>all the invoices etc and made some remarks about your invoices. Didnt like
>>them being on the web not being proper headed paper or without company
>>details such as registered office etc.
we can put our logos at the top of the invoice page, but what\'s the point?
>I am a bit worried about this, but not much.
don\'t be worried, be proud.
>>Just thought you might like to be prepared should they draw your name out of
>>a hat as he told us.
>Thankyou, I expect they will be calling on me next.
make sure you send them to poole
>Where can I get an example that shows what information
>I am not suplying on the invoice.
>(Do you have an example in Croner\'s Model Contracts?)
i\'ll give the lawyers a shout.
timj
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12241,'Tue Mar 23 17:02:55 1999','Re: Re: Invoices',27,12239,'Posted on behalf of windy by TimJ
wot the accountants say;
>My guess is that the regulatory community will lag behind technological
>advances by some distance. It always used to be the case that hard copy
>invoices had to be kept as part of the statutory records, I doubt this has
>changed. This means that despite all the information being on your website
>it will still need to be on the invoice aswell. Company name, registered
>office and number are the ESSENTIAL items on an invoice. This allows
>investigators such as the inland revenue to check that suppliers (hence tax
>deductible costs) are legitimate traders.
timj
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12242,'Tue Mar 23 21:58:37 1999','Re: Re: Invoices',1,12239,'
more from the lawyers, haven\'t they done well?
conveniently this is a spec for the new paneris invoicing system as well.
this talks about vat invoices, but it is probably safe to assume that non-vat invoices are the same (without the vat stuff):
Regulations 1995 (as amended by SI 1250/1 996).
14. -(1) Subject to paragraph (2) below and regulation 16, and save as the commissioners may otherwise allow, a registered person providing a VAT invoice in accordance with regulation 13 shall state thereon the following particulars-
(a) an identifying number
(b) the time of the supply
(c) the date of the issue of the document
(d) the name, address and registration number of the supplier
(e) the name and address of the person to whom the goods or services are supplied
(f) the type of supply by reference to the following categories-
(i) a supply by sale
(ii) a supply on hire purchase or any similar transaction
(iii) a supply by loan
(iv) a supply by way of exchange
(v) a supply on hire, lease or rental
(vi) a supply of goods made from the customer’s materials
(vii) a supply by sale on commission
(viii) a supply on sale or return or similar terms, or
(ix) any other type of supply which the Commissioners may at any time by notice specify (
g) a description sufficient to identify the goods or services supplied
(h) for each description, the quantity of the goods or the extent of the services, and the rate of VAT and the amount payable, excluding VAT, expressed in sterling
(i) the gross total amount payable, excluding VAT, expressed in sterling
(j) the rate of any cash discount offered
(k) each rate of VAT chargeable and the amount of VAT chargeable, expressed in sterling, at each such rate, and
(I) the total amount of VAT chargeable, expressed in sterling.
The regulation gives the Commissioners the discretion to relax these requirements if they cause genuine compliance difficulties, and this section explains some of the concessions that are available. However, you should not grant requests for a concession automatically, but consider each one carefully on its own merits.
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12243,'Fri Mar 26 1:40:49 1999','URL format for acces by name',3,0,'
Hi,
I am trying to get pm_person.pl?name=Tim+Joyce to work,
but can\'t get it to change its behaviour.
Have I got the syntax wrong?
Similarly pm_project_report.pl?description=PFE doesn\'t work.
Can someone give me an example.
Thanks in advance
timp
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12244,'Fri Mar 26 6:58:08 1999','Re: URL format for acces by name',1,12243,'
>I am trying to get pm_person.pl?name=Tim+Joyce to work,
>but can\'t get it to change its behaviour.
no, this won\'t work at present, with the new dd stuff it will. you can achieve the same result with
pm_person.pl?person=5
>Similarly pm_project_report.pl?description=PFE doesn\'t work.
pm_project_report.pl?projects=PFE&list=1
does work
timj
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12245,'Fri Mar 26 11:50:07 1999','Re: Re: URL format for acces by name',2,12244,'
>>I am trying to get pm_person.pl?name=Tim+Joyce to work,
>>but can\'t get it to change its behaviour.
>no, this won\'t work at present, with the new dd stuff it will. you can achieve the same result with
>pm_person.pl?person=5
Actually, pm_person.pl?people=5
You can\'t use a person\'s name.
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12246,'Fri Mar 26 11:55:08 1999','Re: Re: Re: URL format for acces by name',2,12245,'
>>>I am trying to get pm_person.pl?name=Tim+Joyce to work,
>>>but can\'t get it to change its behaviour.
>>no, this won\'t work at present, with the new dd stuff it will. you can achieve the same result with
>>pm_person.pl?person=5
>Actually, pm_person.pl?people=5
>You can\'t use a person\'s name.
>Myles
Well, in fact you _can_ use a person\'s name!
pm_person.pl?people=Tim+Joyce should work.
Myles
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12247,'Fri Aug 27 13:30:24 1999','Test Message - Ignore',3,0,'
Test Message - Ignore
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12248,'Fri Aug 27 13:35:23 1999','Miss bookings in PMS',3,0,'
Dear All,
The following URL:
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/PM/cgi-bin/pm_project_report.pl?invoices=10&list=1&compactproject=1&compacttask=1
shows bookings for Efam, which I believe should probably all be TimJ.
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/PM/cgi-bin/pm_project_report.pl?invoices=10&list=1&compactproject=1&compacttask=1
The above shows all time bookings not on Invoices.
I found 5 hours that I will never get paid for, and it looks
like there are quite a few more.
TimJ and Myles there are a lot of bookings on PFE which are not allocated to an Invoice. I intend to pay when PFE Phase 2 is paid, but you may want to put them on an invoice now.
yours
timP
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12249,'Fri Aug 27 13:42:20 1999','Re: Miss bookings in PMS',3,12248,'
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/PM/cgi-bin/pm_project_report.pl?invoices=10&list=1&compactproject=1&compacttask=1
It looks, by the way, as though we have run at 17% over budget
since we started the time recording system.
I think that that is very good given industry averages,
but obviously not as good as 17% under budget :)
yours
timP
','f','',155,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
156,'dbadmin','Paneris dbadmin List',8156,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/dbadmin/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/dbadmin/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12250,'Wed Apr 21 11:22:10 1999','Upload',3,0,'
I have uploaded some csv files but they contained line feeds in text areas, which is probably fair enough, but not currently handled.
Similarly dollar signs in currency fields make postgres barf.
yours
timp
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12251,'Tue Apr 27 13:28:47 1999','Insert new record bug?',3,0,'
Hi tim,
It seems as though there may be a small problem with insert.
It has happened twice, the second time I think I saw what happened.
Pressed http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/Administration?db=PFETrack&table=sale_terms_lookup
pressed
http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/AdministrationEdit?db=PFETrack&table=sale_terms_lookup&id=0
entered details
Pressed update, got webmacro error. Cannot insert into table with duplicate key.
Pressed \'back\'
Pressed update
All worked, still works now.
So I think it is a bug that only shows up after an apachectrl restart.
Any ideas?
yours
TimP
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12252,'Tue Apr 27 14:22:29 1999','Re: Insert new record bug?',1,12251,'
Umm,
I\'ve been messing about with this recently, so it is probably simply an introduced bug. Will look at asap.
timj
>Hi tim,
>It seems as though there may be a small problem with insert.
>It has happened twice, the second time I think I saw what happened.
>Pressed http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/Administration?db=PFETrack&table=sale_terms_lookup
>pressed
>http://www.paneris.org/webmacro/AdministrationEdit?db=PFETrack&table=sale_terms_lookup&id=0
>entered details
>Pressed update, got webmacro error. Cannot insert into table with duplicate key.
>Pressed \'back\'
>Pressed update
>All worked, still works now.
>So I think it is a bug that only shows up after an apachectrl restart.
>Any ideas?
>yours
>TimP
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12253,'Wed Apr 28 1:47:39 1999','Help, I have stuffed it up',3,0,'
Tim,
I have done what should be a minor alteration to dbadmin,
I have made EVERYTHING check if it was called with a template argument.
This worked fine for all the commandline urls, but I
needed to make it work for the forms and so put the variable template into the context.
But it is not visible at run time.
Please have a look at line 40 of Administration.java and let me know what to do.
Otherwise I was doing fine. I have created copies of all the dbadmin templates and personalised them to PFE.
I have got to call it a day now, but will talk in the morning.
yours
tim
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12254,'Wed Apr 28 7:58:11 1999','Re: Help, I have stuffed it up (doesn\'t sound like it :)',1,12253,'
>Tim,
>I have done what should be a minor alteration to dbadmin,
>I have made EVERYTHING check if it was called with a template argument.
good plan
>This worked fine for all the commandline urls, but I
>needed to make it work for the forms and so put the variable template into the context.
>But it is not visible at run time.
nope, putting it in the context will not help. the context is only available for the single request (it doesn\'t persist). For FORMs, simply add template=foo.wm to the POST QueryString.
also, can we use a more specific name than simply "template". this is because i would like to avoid any conflict with a database field called "template" in a future project. can i suggest "wmTemplate"?
>Please have a look at line 40 of Administration.java and let me know what to do.
don\'t put it in the context (unless it is useful for debugging)
>Otherwise I was doing fine. I have created copies of all the dbadmin templates and personalised them to PFE.
nice, does the dbadmin stuff provide nice enough functionality to be useful to the customer? jenny doesn\'t think so. actions for me today include adding orderby to to the Administration list page, so I\'ll be working in dbadmin as well today.
timj
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12255,'Wed Apr 28 9:04:38 1999','Re: Insert new record bug?',1,12251,'
Can\'t reproduce this, and the code looks ok. Chippy was going to look at this, perhaps he fixed it already?
timj
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12256,'Thu Apr 29 23:33:12 1999','System Properties Table',1,0,'
OK,
I was going mess about with projects.properties in order to allow us to set up a different uploaddir for each project. Then i figured that the real place to store an uploaddir is in the database - in a System table. and we are likely to want other similar properties in the future.
So I intend to add this to the datadictionary tomorrow. is this sensible?
timj
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12257,'Fri Apr 30 1:56:41 1999','Re: System Properties Table',3,12256,'
>OK,
>I was going mess about with projects.properties in order to allow us to set up a different uploaddir for each project. Then i figured that the real place to store an uploaddir is in the database - in a System table. and we are likely to want other similar properties in the future.
>So I intend to add this to the datadictionary tomorrow. is this sensible?
+1
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12258,'Tue May 25 3:29:44 1999','Re: System Properties Table',3,12256,'
>OK,
>I was going mess about with projects.properties in order to allow us to set up a different uploaddir for each project. Then i figured that the real place to store an uploaddir is in the database - in a System table. and we are likely to want other similar properties in the future.
>So I intend to add this to the datadictionary tomorrow. is this sensible?
>timj
I don\'t know what happened, but radcliffe and acan got deleted from system properties,
I have put acan back in.
Timp
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12259,'Thu Jun 10 14:31:45 1999','Wee bug - fixed',3,0,'
AdministrationEdit had the table_name in the id.
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12260,'Mon Jun 14 8:37:35 1999','Re: Wee bug - fixed',1,12259,'
>AdministrationEdit had the table_name in the id.
bit confused, can you elaborate. i can\'t see a change in cvs?
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12261,'Mon Jun 14 10:21:43 1999','Re: Re: Wee bug - fixed',3,12260,'
>>AdministrationEdit had the table_name in the id.
>bit confused, can you elaborate. i can\'t see a change in cvs?
Oops, AdministrationUpdate
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12262,'Mon Jun 14 10:55:17 1999','Re: Re: Re: Wee bug - fixed',1,12261,'
>>>AdministrationEdit had the table_name in the id.
>>bit confused, can you elaborate. i can\'t see a change in cvs?
>
>Oops, AdministrationUpdate
cool
','f','',156,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
157,'system','Paneris system List',8157,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/system/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/system/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12263,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','New System node',3,0,'
This node is meant fro descriptions and discussions of system requirements.
There is currently a CMCS subdirectory, in which I have placed a description of the old system
that I wrote at VT.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12264,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Message Board Scripts',3,0,'
I think the message board script should also have a
copy to button.
I also don\'t like the way the most current message is at the top.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12265,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','ToDo Script',3,0,'
The TODO script had a small error in it, so the
estimate and actual dates were confused. This has now been fixed.
To Remind you:
Target Date is the original date that the action was intended to
be finished by.
Estimate Date is the date that it is curently expected
that the action will be finished.
Actual Date is the date that the action was completed.
The script now works as follows:
If the estimate date is greater than the target date
Status = orange
If the target date is still in the future
Status = green
If the target date has been missed and the estimate has not been revised
Status = red
I am not sure whether we need to improve this system.
It works well for small projects, but as it shows all
actions, completed or not, then it would be very cumbersome
for a project such as Bloomsbury, which has many,
many actions, most of which are completed.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12266,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Site Access Control',111,0,'Posted on behalf of SimonT by TimP
Password protection of all charges and invoicing to I-WAY.
If a customer is directed to this site during or after project implementation it would expose our developmennt costs which are obviously confidential.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12267,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Message Board Scripts',3,12264,'
Rather than suffer on with the current message board,
maybe we should install the coco board:
http://jean-luc.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Codes/CoCoBoard/CoCoHome.html
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12268,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Site Access Control',3,12266,'
I have put protection on the projects/iway
directory.
The DIRCON server is apache so the usual
protection was used as shown at <a href=\'http://www.dircon.net/support/encrypt.html\'>http://www.dircon.net/support/encrypt.html</a>.
This does not stop someone snooping around and discovering individual
invoices, but I don\'t believe it is possible to
learn the exact breakdown of project costs.
We still need to put some thinking into how
access control is to be acheived.
I think that it should be something based on roles,
but have no idea how to implement it as yet.
Role Responsibility
Commercial Liason
Technical Liason
Project Quality Control
Customer
Graphic Design
Browser
The rights that we want to control are:
Modify text
Input to text boxes
See anything
See specific projects non financial detail
See specific projects financial detail
See everything except financial
See everything
Add to specific project
etcetc .....
I am very sceptical about the need for an
access control system at all.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12269,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Message Board Scripts',1,12267,'
Love it, lets do it.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12270,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Site Access Control',1,12268,'
The current password system prevents customers from visiting their own area. Is this deliberate? If so, can we to give the password out to customers?
Re: security policy:
I think this should be addressed on an ad-hoc basis, I would like to think that the password protecting of the i-way invoices would be the only area that requires protection.
I am not sure I follow the argument that development costs should be confidential, surely transparency encourages trust and therefor customer loyalty? Perhaps there has been a specific incident that has sparked off this action?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12271,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Site Access Control',3,12270,'
I don\'t have a problem with customers being given the password.
I also do not think that customers would be able or
willing to look at what is essentially our payroll
system, for jobs which go on for considerable lengths of
time, deduce how much we are charging IWay, infer from that
what IWays markup is and then challenge IWay,
it would not be professional or accurate.
Our contracts, specifications, quality control
and acceptance procedures are so slack that this is how people
will go about challenging prices.
I would very much like to remove the password, as soon as the argument
has been won, but felt that adding a password was the way to illustrate
how difficult it is to work with passwords, and to be responsive to our clients
concerns.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12272,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Project Management System',2,0,'
What do we need for Project Management?
---------------------------------------
This message sets out some thoughts about the requirements for a web
based project management system along the lines of the Paneris web
site and the I-Way timesheet system. It is thought that a more usable
and useful system can be created by integrating currently existing
systems with some new components. I am at the start of the process
of specificing such a system and would greatly appreciate anyone\'s
input to incorporate it into the spec.
Objects
-------
As far as I can see at the moment, there are several types of entity
that we will need in the system. These include:
- People
(principally Paneris and I-Way staff - not customers)
- A Diary/Availability system for each person
- A timesheet/invoicing system for each person
- A PO system
- Projects
- A message board or e-mail system for communication about projects.
- A document store for specifications, notes on development, etc.
- A Task list (cf Paneris To-Do list) of individual actions that
need to be monitored.
Note that although Diaries and Invoices are most closely associated
with a single person, they are intimately connected with projects,
in particular tasks and POs (for instance, people could "book" someone on
the diary to complete a task).
Question : Have I missed anything?
What Do People Want To See?
---------------------------
What do people want this system to do? Here are some guesses:
What I (as a programmer for I-Way) would want to see includes:
- Status of Project(s) that I am involved in, including
- A "project status" paragraph which must be kept up to date!
- Any outstanding actions or tasks for me
- Any outstanding actions or tasks for others
- New messages/documents since I last looked at the site
(this should be the contents of a "summary" screen - full details
should be accessible as well)
- My invoices
- My Diary
- My tasks
- Other peoples\' Diaries
- Other peoples\' tasks
Can anyone think of other things? In particular I think that
Simon will need summary screens for each person as well as project.
What should be on them to give the status of projects "at a glance"?
My Thoughts on The sytem
------------------------
Just briefly, the way I see the system working is that you log on and
get a summary screen showing the information listed under "What Do
People Want To See?" as well as the proposed links to invoices, etc.
There would also be two other main pages : "People" and "Projects" that
would allow people to see full details (subject to access level) of all
people and projects, perhaps with appropriate summary screens (status
of projects, oustanding actions, availability summary for people, what
else?).
IMPLEMENTATION NOTES:
---------------------
I feel that the approach to the system should be to make things as
simple, and therefore fexible, as possible. If we find that we are
doing the same things repeatedly, we can customise at that point
rather than insisting that things are done in one particular way
from the outset. This refers to ways of working with the web site,
not necessarily ways of working on projects, although the idea is
that the web site will (help to) formalise the way in which projects
happen.
I personally would like to integrate e-mail and (web) message boards
more closely than at present (in particular I would like to post
messages to message boards from e-mail).
I think that documents should be handled in much the same way as
attachments to e-mail, i.e. You upload a document by sending a message
to the message board including the document. This gives us a simple
document control system (documents are never updated, just new versions
uploaded), it gives us the ability to include more comments about a
document (in the message) than just its title, and it gives us a
timestamp on document uploads.
Authentication/password protection has now made it\'s debut on the
Paneris site. I think that we can build a more flexible system by
explicitly marking the permissions on messages/documents/tasks/diaries.
The catagories could be:
* Internal I-Way correspondance - not for customers or the public
* Internal Project correspondance - can be viewed by customers, but
not by the public
* Normal correspondance - Can be viewed by anyone
I anticipate the site being accessed by entering your username/password
before seeing any of this internal I-Way/Paneris stuff, much as on the
I-way timesheet. We could give customers a guest password so that they
could follow project development whilst being restricted from accessing
sensitive information.
If anything is not clear or you have any comments about all of this,
then please let me know,
Regards,
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12273,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Message Board Scripts',2,12267,'
This CoCo looks good fun. It\'s the kind of thing I was planning to do
anyway to link e-mail and message boards (see my posting on Web Project
Management at http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/messages/10.htm ), and
the fact that it understands attachments can be tweaked so that we can
automatically upload documents onto the web site with ease!
Additions/Alterations would be to give purely web based access as well
as an e-mail interface, i.e. tack multiboard (or parts of it) onto
CoCo. I think that this would be easy to do. The only extension that
we need is some way of attaching level of access given to the message
or file (if appropriate) easily. We could always hack it by using the
the e-mail priority flag...?
Can we download this and stick it on a server at I-Way to play around
with? Do people think that it is worthwhile changing over?
I think, as I\'ve said, that it is almost custom written for the Project
Management system that is taking shape in my head. What do you think?
Regards,
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12274,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Old Browsers',2,0,'
Dear all,
Found this on a mailing list. Thought it would be useful:
Hi
and thanks everyone who sent in URL\'s etc. I\'ve got more browsers now than
I could ever want.
If anyone else is looking for anything from Mosaic 1.0 for linux, to lynx
for the Mac then these would be good places to start:
http://www.its.unimelb.edu.au:8088/pub/www/clients/
http://www.esva.net/software.html
http://www.netspace.org/ftpspace/Software/Mac/browsers/
http://www.touch.ch/files/
http://archiginnasio.dsnet.it/
http://www.filez.com/
http://am.net/NS/am/Dir/Lib/Tools
http://www.netspace.org/ftpspace/Software/Mac/browsers/
http://www.touch.ch/files/
http://www.esva.net/
ftp://ftp.nvc.cc.ca.us/pub/internet/AntiqueBrowsers/index.html
http://lynx.browser.org/
ftp://ftp.auckland.ac.nz/pub/mac/www/browsers
Sophie Clare
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12275,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Site Access Control',3,12271,'
We have had protection on the IWay projects for a while.
I have just accidently deleted it.
So, before I put it back on, can we review what it is there for, as so far
it seems only to be a frustration to people who regularly use the site.
The aims of privacy can be mayfold, but off the top of my head:
- to allow you to speak freely
Well, we do, by email if we need privacy
- to hide information from clients
Well, why shouldn\'t they see whats going on
- to hide the cost/profit from customers
Well, visibility of costs is one of the Unique Selling Points of paneris
The password that we had did not stop surfers from following through to invoices.
We need to assess what security we want, and why,
otherwise I feel that we should not have any.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12276,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Multiboard functionality',3,0,'
The multiboards should now accept a Copy To field,
(timj this message should get to you twice, please confirm)
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12277,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Site upgrade - CGI.pm',3,0,'
After considerable prompting Dircon have installed CGI.pm;
I have upgraded htmlutil.pl to use it.
Consequently all scripts have now been upgraded to perl5,
I have tested everything, but please report any bugs.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12278,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Search Page',3,0,'
The search page now has Altavista and HotBot on it.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12279,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Password Protection system in place',3,0,'
All new nodes created on Paneris now have the option of
having a username/password added at creation time.
Have a go, if you have any new projects:)
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12280,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','icq',1,0,'
go and get it now!
http://www.mirabilis.com/
chat soon
tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12281,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','More disk space FAO Karen',3,0,'
Please give me an additional 5mb of space on my premier
website (User www504) at a cost of an additional £5.00
per month.
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12282,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Alter \'Create Project\' script...?',2,0,'
Dear Tim,
Could you alter the \'Create Project\' script so that instead of
the three links to the PMS system (labelled \'Tasks\', \'Timesheets\'
and \'Project Status\') we create one link (called \'Project Report\'?)
with a href of:
http://panerisdev.i-way.co.uk/PM/cgi-bin/pm_project_report.pl?projects=Rapport
where \'Rapport\' should be replaced with the name of the project.
Thanks
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12283,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','System problems over?',3,0,'
Boys,
I believe that Paneris is working again,
I have modified the invoice script so that you can call up an
invoice by its URL with a get method,
also have modified the create_project script so that it
copies a template into the new node.
Still need to modify the letter script.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12284,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Alter \'Create Project\' script...?',3,12282,'
Done.
Also now copies a template into the new node.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12285,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Automatic generation of text colour from bgcolour',3,0,'
Boys,
Whilst acknowledging the views of those who think automatic
generation is for the birds :) I have come up with
a workable solution; see <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/bgcolours.pl\'>bgcolours.pl</a>.
If you can invent a better algorithm using the form supplied I would like to know.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12286,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','PMS hyperlink change request',1,0,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by TimP
Tim,
Can you change the PM system link in the bottom left corner to bring the PM
system up in the main frame not _top.
Cheers
Tim Joyce
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12287,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: PMS hyperlink change request',3,12286,'
I chatted with Chippy, who said that it is that way it is because
he prefers that.
I would prefer a new window however and have done that.
I encorage all of you to modify the appropriate templates,
(all called .template and housed at the root level) yorselves.
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12288,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Site structure',3,0,'
Boys,
I have renamed PROJECTS to COMPANIES.
The problem with the new slimline site is that SYSTEM
is no longer visible, and has to be regenerated by hand,
any improvements on current deign welcome.
Maybe the view should be determined by who you are?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12289,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Mea Culpa',3,0,'
I have replaced the read site ini function with a perl require
and everything has speeded up.
Oh dear.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12290,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Online modification available',3,0,'
You can now modify pages, if they have the link in them
Things to watch out for are dodgt DTDs and change control stuff.
Delete them !!
yours
tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12291,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Available actions page',3,0,'
There is now a page at each node called actions.shtml
It shows what you can do, and as it is at the right place things like
invoices and todo lists work.
It has highlighted how many scripts are broken or need work,
any volunteers?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12292,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Disk space on PanEris',3,0,'
Dear all,
we are 8mB over disk quota on paneris.
But dircon have a bug, and it doesn\'t seem to matter,
however, could you tidy and clean.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12293,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','File upload beta available',3,0,'
A file upload function is now available in beta.
(designated by the natty new BETA_COLOUR on actions.shtml)
It does not currently have any security settings,
so use with care.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12294,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Template Modification Available',3,0,'
Boys,
I have changed the use of templates on the site,
so that a template is first looked for at
the current node and then the next node up until
the top.
I have added <em>modify templates</em> to the other fuctions
list, so now it is possible to design a \'non standard\'
paneris page <em>on line</em> and have it maintained by the
site machinery.
Try it on your personal page :)
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12295,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Template Modification Available',3,12294,'
Well, template modification was available,
had a tempory withdrawal of service and is now available again.
I have also changed <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/bgcolours.pl\'>bgcolours.pl</a>
so that it generates all of the body tags that Paneris
would generate in an input box for you to cut and paste.
I used it to change the background on my side bars.
love tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12296,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Retrieving files from backup?',3,0,'
Hi,
I overwrote some files on Saturday, is it possible to
have them retrieved?
yours
Tim Pizey
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12297,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Overwritten files',3,0,'
Boys,
The default filesnames for the structural files on paneris
have changed from:
.htm ->.html
Unfortunatly I deleted the old index.htm, which should/doesn\'t matter
for nodes that are created by generate,
but private nodes, such as glastonbury, have been lost.
This probably hasn\'t efected anyone else.
The modify_page script now can modify modification templates.
I can now distinguish between hidden nodes (such as system)
and forbidden nodes such as logs or cgi-bin.
If a node, such as glastonbury, has a non-generated index.html
then a file called paneris_view.html is avilable instead.
yours
Tim.
Ps have made some progress on philosophy documents.
Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12298,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Retrieving files from backup?',3,12296,'Posted on behalf of Mark Richardson by TimP
Hi Tim,
I\'m afraid we can\'t help if the files have been deleted from your
webspace. Is there a copy of them in the recycle bin of your machine?
Mark Richardson
Technical Support Engineer
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12299,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Why we need more copies of paneris',3,0,'
To do development on a live system is dodgy.
To use the <em>Bazaar</em> methodology we need many users and developers.
To ensure that Paneris is not platform or operating system dependant.
Multiple copies will require us to get a grip on version control.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12300,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Version Control and page modification',3,0,'
The modify_page.pl script now gives you two
options: to modify the existing file or overwrite with
a new one.
In either case the original file is copied to a new
file name, with an incremented _version number.
The problem is that now it is possible to get the
sequence of version numbers wrong either by modifying on ones
home system or similar.
Does it matter?
love tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12301,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Different views of paneris',3,0,'
Boys,
check out /dos.html
I have also done a /customers.html but don\'t take it as done.
If there is a view that people would like please let me know,
I have an idea for the timp view, but it is a bit like what we have :)
Love tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12302,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Security breached?',3,0,'
Boys,
I think that someone (possibly an Iway person?) may have done things they shouldn\'t on paneris:
<a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/analog.pl?194.129.192.16\'>analog.pl</a>
In particular they have updated invoices.
The IP address works but gives an \'access denied by policy\'
I have seen this message before, and had thought it was a robot, but
this time they have used DOS to try \'mkdir bollocks\' and \'del bollocks\'
etc.
Probably no harm done, but a bit worrying.
Maybe we need a bit more secuity?
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12303,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Site structure maintanance',3,0,'
I have made the create_node/updatedir stuff a bit smoother,
but the only thing you should notice is that you won\'t get
so many \'Done it\' pages.
There is now a page under system
(<a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/tree.shtml\'>tree</a>)
which tells you a little more about the process.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12304,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','The TODO thread',3,0,'
We need a place for change requests to be put.
I could resurrect the <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/comment.pl?/paneris/cgi-bin/todo.pl\'>todo</a> list
but I don\'t think anyone wants that.
So this is it.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12305,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','A TODO script',3,12304,'
A little script which runs through cgi-bin [default]
or current node and greps for <tt>TODO</tt>.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12306,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','paying paneris',4,0,'
I made a pretty invoice to bill Tim for mucking in with him
in his deadline excitement. Does it automatically tell
me somewhere that I therefore owe the Paneris beer fund?
How do I pay into it?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12307,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: paying paneris',1,12306,'
I don\'t know what you agreed with tim, but typically we all invoice each other at £30, £36 is our charge out rate (although this has just been increased to £40 from yesterday - new internal rate is £32 - perhaps this info should be better dissemenated ooops)!!
You there for don\'t pay any fund to paneris (let alone for beer!). More details of the paneris fund are at /people
I should also point out that you are using the old_and_tired invoice system, we now have a new system that is database based. Take a look at my page people/timj, if you can\'t work it out, let me know.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12308,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: paying paneris',4,12307,'
Why do I have to type my email address in every time ...
Thanks Tim, that\'s sorted now.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12309,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: The TODO thread',3,12304,'
We need the ability to move messages from one node to another,
and delete messages from boards (cutter.pl !!)
TimP
(of course I realise that we will have some other messaging system
before this happens).
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12310,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: The TODO thread',1,12304,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by TimP
It would be nice to have the ability to rename/move
nodes automatically.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12311,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Message boards',3,0,'
It would be nice to be able to select the distribution of the message boards.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12312,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: The TODO thread',3,12304,'
It would be nice if the passwording functionality was extracted from create_node.pl
and moved to a separate script. (password.pl).
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12313,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Addressees on Message boards',3,0,'
You can now choose who to circulate messages
to, however this is only available in reply to messages
created after today.
There may be a brief break in the \'modify page messages\'.
Actually can everyone tell me their preferences for
receipt of modify messages.
yours
Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12314,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',3,12313,'
>Actually can everyone tell me their preferences for
>receipt of modify messages.
I love it, I can disable my pop account.
yours
Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12315,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',1,12313,'
Tim,
I feel we are tinkering with a system that has a limited life, how is the research on cocoboard going?
We are gradually accumulating money for our own server, when we spec it, we should take into account cocoboards requirements, hence the requirement to do some research.
Cheers
Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12316,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',1,12314,'
>
>>Actually can everyone tell me their preferences for
>>receipt of modify messages.
I like to be informaed of what is going on, although I would like to unsubscribe to some nodes, that dont interest me.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12317,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: paying paneris',1,12308,'
William,
You have not entered your invoices in the new system, use the link to invoices from your new partner node.
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12318,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',2,12313,'
I would like to receive no modify messages. If I look
at the page I see the most current stuff, so it\'s not
really necessary.
If it\'s important we can always send an e-mail/use the
message board.
Same comments for search/replace.
Myles
>You can now choose who to circulate messages
>to, however this is only available in reply to messages
>created after today.
>
>There may be a brief break in the \'modify page messages\'.
>
>Actually can everyone tell me their preferences for
>receipt of modify messages.
>
>yours
>Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12319,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',2,12315,'
All,
On the subject of CoCoBoard, here is some info about it:
>The software requires your server be a Unix system with a working installation of Perl 4 and the Image Magick tools, both
>available free of charge. The maintainer of the page must be able to create an account on your server to receive the email, and
>the account created must be able to write into your server space.
and
>The CoCoBoard only runs on unix systems which have sendmail. It may run on others, but you\'d have to do the
>port. Basically, if you can make your mail transport system push mail into a process on stdin, and you have perl,
>then you can probably make it work. However, we have no plans to port to Windows NT, Mac etc... (NT users
>note: the software does work quite nicely under Linux...)
So we need a Linux server with shell access. If we think of buying this then we
might have problems getting a database with the functionality we need for the PMS.
There is an extensive list of alternative systems at <a href="http://thinkofit.com/webconf/">http://thinkofit.com/webconf/</a>.
After a quick look there doesn\'t seem to be a free BB system for NT which accepts e-mails other than mailing
list archiving software.
What do people think?
Myles
>Tim,
>
>I feel we are tinkering with a system that has a limited life, how is the research on cocoboard going?
>
>We are gradually accumulating money for our own server, when we spec it, we should take into account cocoboards requirements, hence the requirement to do some research.
>
>Cheers
>
>Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12320,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',3,12315,'
TimJ>I feel we are tinkering with a system that has a limited life, how is the research on cocoboard going?
TimJ>We are gradually accumulating money for our own server, when we spec it, we should take into account cocoboards requirements, hence the requirement to do some research.
I have thought a bit about this, (if I was convinced I am sure I could have found the time to install HyperNews).
I am not expecting to lose multiboard.pl because
it is, or will be, a working system, which has had a lot of
corners rubbed off it. If, as is likely, we have a request
to install a message board for a customer I would use it as a starting point,
the code is a lot better than the original from Matts Script Archive.
Secondly I don\'t expect that anyone will be bothered to port the current
messages to any new system, and I wish to keep our history as
I think it is the best introduction to us as an organisation (history defines culture).
Thirdly, I wish to ensure that Paneris can be ported to a low
spec machine with minimal software, hardware and setup requirements, so
adding a difficult step, such as installing HyperNews, will make
Paneris more difficult to port and less \'ours\' (not written here syndrome).
There are good reasons not to use personal email clients.
Two slogans spring to mind: <em>the network is the computer</em> and
<em>Openness, Openness, Openness</em>.
We have all had disk crashes, with subsequent loss of history.
Your Email clients history is not accessible to other members of paneris and so
should not contain unique, Paneris related, messages.
If we really are wedded to our email clients then we can always rip the
email handling routines out of CoCo Board or HyperNews and install it in
multiboard.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12321,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',3,12319,'
I downloded CoCo Board some while ago, as you say
it is old, Unix dependant and can\'t handle incoming email.
I looked at <a href=\'http://www.hypernews.org/\'>HyperNews</a>
and tried to get involved in the developer discussion,
which seems to be dead, the owner has got a proper job now.
There were no plans to port it to NT, (in fact a vigorous anti-M$ stance)
and when I investigated doing it myself found that the Perl was
VERY Unix dependant.
So, that brings me to my current position of
hoping that I can persuade others to keep, use and improve the
current system.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12322,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Invoice System',2,0,'
TimJ,
I have just used the PMS invoice system and had a problem:
I put in one invoice OK (number 10 for USN work). I then went to
put in invoice 11 (for valpak) and put the reference into the invoice
number by mistake (i.e. put in MJC0011 for the number). I then got a
very unfriend "Couldn\'t execute statement..." error (which I assume we
will get for any input of the wrong format). I then re-entered number 11
and found that number 10 had the original 4.75 hours as expected, but also
the 82.75 hours for invoice 11. What\'s all that, then?
Other than that, very nice system. It would be nice for MJ Chippendale Solutions
to be automatically selected, but that\'s for the future.
Now I have to go and put 20+ timesheets on those invoices, one at a time :-(
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12323,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Control of addressees on message boards',3,12304,'
It would be nice to have the ability to control addressees on message boards.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12324,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Control of addressees on message boards',3,12323,'
>It would be nice to have the ability to control addressees on message boards.
Done it, however I have changed the logic of the send mail subroutine in
htmlutil.pl, so that it now expects a list of recipients, so need to update all calls to it.
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12325,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Message boards',3,12311,'
Done it (see TODO thread).
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12326,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Why you have to type in your email. ',3,12308,'
The messages are pregenerated, with their input boxes,
and so cannot pick up your identity from your
IP address, which would only work for those of us with a fixed IP, and
couldn\'t do anything with a cookie anyway.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12327,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',4,12319,'
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> So we need a Linux server with shell access. If we think of buying
> this then we might have problems getting a database with the
> functionality we need for the PMS.
I\'ve not used anything more sophisticated than msql myself but I was
under the impression that postgresql, and several of the other Unix
databases that run on Linux, were pretty capable?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12328,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Invoice System',3,12322,'
Can I call for a bit of \'belt and braces\' here, during the transition.
The old( and tired) invoice system should still be used in parrallel,
until the new system has been run in and all old data ported.
I think that we need to keep some part of the current system,
namely the personalisation of templates, before junking it.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12329,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Why you have to type in your email. ',4,12326,'
>couldn\'t do anything with a cookie anyway.
Just out of interest, why not?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12330,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Invoice System',1,12322,'
>the 82.75 hours for invoice 11. What\'s all that, then?
Bug, I\'m not trapping my errors correctly :(
>Other than that, very nice system. It would be nice for MJ Chippendale Solutions
>to be automatically selected, but that\'s for the future.
true
>Now I have to go and put 20+ timesheets on those invoices, one at a time :-(
Tim is writing a converter script.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12331,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:47 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',4,12327,'
>I\'ve not used anything more sophisticated than msql myself but I was
>under the impression that postgresql, and several of the other Unix
>databases that run on Linux, were pretty capable?
See, for instance, http://linas.org/linux/db.html
(there are other lists as well).
Of course there are always Oracle, Ingres, Adabas D and
Informix ... :)
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12332,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',1,12321,'
>I downloded CoCo Board some while ago, as you say
>it is old, Unix dependant and can\'t handle incoming email.
no good fr us then
>There were no plans to port it to NT, (in fact a vigorous anti-M$ stance)
>and when I investigated doing it myself found that the Perl was
>VERY Unix dependant.
OK, but we can plan on buying a linux box.
>So, that brings me to my current position of
>hoping that I can persuade others to keep, use and improve the
>current system.
desperately need the ability to send mail to it!
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12333,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',2,12320,'
[snipped - reasons not to dump multiboard]
Agree with this.
>There are good reasons not to use personal email clients.
E-mail clients, to my mind, are the best way to receive and reply
to messages. We already receive multiboard messages by e-mail, but
having to go on-line and to the appropriate web page and (re-)setting
the distribution before even thinking of typing in words is inefficient.
I agree, though, that just using e-mail (not getting it onto the web
somehow) can lead to problems. But that doesn\'t mean the only other
way to do it is via a web browser. In short, I think we need CoCoBoard
or HyperNews feature to automatically post an incoming e-mail to a
forum of some sort will be a huge boon to me.
>Two slogans spring to mind: <em>the network is the computer</em> and
><em>Openness, Openness, Openness</em>.
>We have all had disk crashes, with subsequent loss of history.
>Your Email clients history is not accessible to other members of paneris and so
>should not contain unique, Paneris related, messages.
Agree, although I would like to see some justification, FROM ANYONE, of why
openness is good. I fully agree that we need to open amongst ourselves (so
that we know what is going on and can jump into projects) and I understand
that we can use openness as a box to tick to impress some (open?) organisations,
but is all openness good? (Some of our customer\'s pages already have password
protection).
>If we really are wedded to our email clients then we can always rip the
>email handling routines out of CoCo Board or HyperNews and install it in
>multiboard.
I think that this would be a large effort. Why not just use HyperNews as
our preferred messaging system anyway?
>yours
>timP
Regards,
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12334,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','new box',1,0,'
>I\'ve not used anything more sophisticated than msql myself but I was
>under the impression that postgresql, and several of the other Unix
>databases that run on Linux, were pretty capable?
Now we are getting somewhere. Can we agree that we will run linux on the new box, and port the PMS to a proper database (is postgresql free? Is there a DBI interface?)
Paneris should port no problem.
Are there any volenteers to run this \'new box\' project. By the end of the month we should have £1500. £500 will be spent on hosting. I have just got a quote from dell for a 450mzh with 128 ram (no monitor) 1049 ex VAT. So we are ready to roll when we get i-way o/s invoices in!
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12335,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',2,12321,'
>I downloded CoCo Board some while ago, as you say
>it is old, Unix dependant and can\'t handle incoming email.
I think that it can. In fact, it handles MIME messages as well,
which would be useful for uploading files.
>I looked at <a href=\'http://www.hypernews.org/\'>HyperNews</a>
>and tried to get involved in the developer discussion,
>which seems to be dead, the owner has got a proper job now.
>There were no plans to port it to NT, (in fact a vigorous anti-M$ stance)
>and when I investigated doing it myself found that the Perl was
>VERY Unix dependant.
What I personally haven\'t got a handle on is how to set up an NT server
to pipe (or equivalent) incoming e-mails to a script. Anyone got any
ideas.
But if we go the Linux way for our server, this is not really a problem.
>So, that brings me to my current position of
>hoping that I can persuade others to keep, use and improve the
>current system.
I\'m not sure that there is enough worth keeping with the old system. We
need to evaluate CoCoBoard and HyperNews, pick one of those as our messaging
system and port the old messages if necessary.
>yours
>TimP
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12336,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: new box',3,12334,'
>Now we are getting somewhere. Can we agree that we will run linux on the new box, and port the PMS to a proper database (is postgresql free? Is there a DBI interface?)
Yes, very happy.
>Paneris should port no problem.
Hope so.
>Are there any volenteers to run this \'new box\' project.
Not me at the moment, how do we fund this sort of thing (I know that PMS and paneris scripts have been done for love so far,
but we can\'t keep that up forever).
>By the end of the month we should have £1500.
>£500 will be spent on hosting.
>I have just got a quote from dell for a 450mzh with 128 ram (no monitor) 1049 ex VAT.
>So we are ready to roll when we get i-way o/s invoices in!
Wonderful.
love TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12337,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',3,12335,'
>>I downloded CoCo Board some while ago, as you say
>>it is old, Unix dependant and can\'t handle incoming email.
>I think that it can. In fact, it handles MIME messages as well,
>which would be useful for uploading files.
Oops, well there was something that it couldn\'t do.
There is a very good comparison of available systems at
<a href=\'http://www.hypernews.org/\'>HyperNews</a>.
>I\'m not sure that there is enough worth keeping with the old system. We
>need to evaluate CoCoBoard and HyperNews, pick one of those as our messaging
>system and port the old messages if necessary.
Fair enough, if that is <em>and port the old messages</em>.
yours
Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12338,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: new box',2,12334,'
>Now we are getting somewhere. Can we agree that we will run
>linux on the new box, and port the PMS to a proper database
>(is postgresql free? Is there a DBI interface?)
I certainly have no problems with us using a Linux box.
>Paneris should port no problem.
>Are there any volenteers to run this \'new box\' project.
I would be happy running this from the point where the box
is up, running and on-line - Linux can\'t be that different
from Solaris, surely... Do you want to buy the machine
and talk to I-Way, TimJ?
>By the end of the month we should have £1500. £500 will be
>spent on hosting. I have just got a quote from dell for a
>450mzh with 128 ram (no monitor) 1049 ex VAT. So we are
>ready to roll when we get i-way o/s invoices in!
Seems a very reasonable price. Let\'s get it all sorted.
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12339,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Why you have to type in your email. ',3,12329,'
>>couldn\'t do anything with a cookie anyway.
>Just out of interest, why not?
Well, you could using javascript.
The message input boxes are generated when a message is posted.
So you cannot know, at that point, the name and address of
the person who will reply.
We could change the input box value using cookies/javascript, but
I don\'t know either technology.
There is cookie handling on PMS, which I hope to get to grips with
when we move to the new box.
yours
Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12340,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Addressees on Message boards',1,12333,'
>[snipped - reasons not to dump multiboard]
>Agree with this.
>E-mail clients, to my mind, are the best way to receive and reply
>to messages. We already receive multiboard messages by e-mail, but
>having to go on-line and to the appropriate web page and (re-)setting
>the distribution before even thinking of typing in words is inefficient.
>I agree, though, that just using e-mail (not getting it onto the web
>somehow) can lead to problems. But that doesn\'t mean the only other
>way to do it is via a web browser. In short, I think we need CoCoBoard
>or HyperNews feature to automatically post an incoming e-mail to a
>forum of some sort will be a huge boon to me.
ABSOLUTELY AGREE
>Agree, although I would like to see some justification, FROM ANYONE, of why
>openness is good. I fully agree that we need to open amongst ourselves (so
>that we know what is going on and can jump into projects) and I understand
>that we can use openness as a box to tick to impress some (open?) organisations,
>but is all openness good? (Some of our customer\'s pages already have password
>protection).
openness gets us business.
openness is what paneris is about.
openness allows us to run things more effeciently.
openness is objectively good.
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12341,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: new box',1,12338,'
>I would be happy running this from the point where the box
>is up, running and on-line - Linux can\'t be that different
>from Solaris, surely... Do you want to buy the machine
>and talk to I-Way, TimJ?
Brilliant, I was imagining that you would have the box in hurst st while you installed the os, db, mail system etc.
I will order it asap (we have the cash), I may have to deliver it here and drive it up (you know what these credit card cos are like)
Can you decide on db and messaging system between you (timp, myles, william) - I must do some work!
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12342,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: new box',4,12338,'
>Linux can\'t be that different from Solaris, surely...
It ain\'t.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12343,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: new box',4,12334,'
> (is postgresql free? Is there a DBI interface?)
yes, it\'s free and even open source
I don\'t know what DBI is, but there are ODBC drivers.
Also it\'s a supported backend for PHP which is a widely
used web-sql gateway (uses a perl-ish server-side
scripting language).
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12344,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: new box',2,12343,'
>> (is postgresql free? Is there a DBI interface?)
>yes, it\'s free and even open source
>I don\'t know what DBI is, but there are ODBC drivers.
>Also it\'s a supported backend for PHP which is a widely
>used web-sql gateway (uses a perl-ish server-side
>scripting language).
There\'s a DBD module. The readme is at
<a href="http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-category/07_Database_Interfaces/DBD/DBD-Pg-0.73.readme" >http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-category/07_Database_Interfaces/DBD/DBD-Pg-0.73.readme</a>
Replace .readme with .tar.gz for the package itself.
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12345,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: new box',2,12341,'
>>I would be happy running this from the point where the box
>>is up, running and on-line - Linux can\'t be that different
>>from Solaris, surely... Do you want to buy the machine
>>and talk to I-Way, TimJ?
>Brilliant, I was imagining that you would have the box in hurst st while you installed the os, db, mail system etc.
>I will order it asap (we have the cash), I may have to deliver it here and drive it up (you know what these credit card cos are like)
Sounds a good plan.
>Can you decide on db and messaging system between you (timp, myles, william) - I must do some work!
I think we might be deciding on PostGreSQL. As for messaging
system, let\'s try them out on the box and see which is best for us.
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12346,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Change of standard rate ',1,0,'
Chippy,
>I\'m not sure what this is about (missing hours?).
There are less hours logged in the Time Recording system then are invoiced for.
>
>On the vein of re-doing the invoicing, I feel duty-bound to point out
>that your maths is a bit askew. If the Basic Rate (originally 41.49)
>is 100% of the cost and 20% goes to the manager and finder (TimJ in
>both cases) then to get the developer\'s hourly rate you should multiply
>by 80%. Dividing by 1.2 is equivalent to multiplying by 5/6, i.e.
>reserving 16.66% for the manager/finder.
Well 80% would give the developer £28.80 from a standard rate of £36 which is wrong.
So I figured that the developer rate is _marked-up_ by 20%, therefor working the other way (to establish the developer rate) you would expect to divide by 1.2.
Of course we could change this, when we discussed a £40 rate we figured on the developer getting £32 (80%), whereas following our existing system would mean the developer getting £33.33 per hour.
I personally don\'t care which way we do it, but perhaps we should decide?
Cheers
Tim Joyce
Chief Enthusiast
HOOP Ltd
tim@hoop.co.uk
http://www.hoop.co.uk
+44 1202 251 816
>
>Doh! Had to do it, though, didn\'t I Colin ;-)
>
>Myles
>
>
>At 14:12 03/09/98 +0100, Tim Joyce wrote:
>>Colin,
>>
>>I only have 11 hours booked in the time recording system, but don\'t panic:
>>
>>If you are happy with £25 per hour, it doesn\'t effect the calculation much.
>>
>>Should I recalculate based on 15.75 hours, you can change your invoice and
>>on we go, or shall we just leave it as it stands (i\'m happy both ways).
>>Chippy thoughts?
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Tim Joyce
>>Chief Enthusiast
>>HOOP Ltd
>>tim@hoop.co.uk
>>http://www.hoop.co.uk
>>+44 1202 251 816
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>______________________________________________________
>
>Myles Chippendale - mylesc@i-way.co.uk
>Net Worker
> MJ Chippendale Solutions
> 77 Hurst Street - 01865 791078
> Oxford OX4 1HA
>
> http://www.paneris.co.uk/mylesc.html
>______________________________________________________
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12347,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Change of standard rate ',2,12346,'
>Chippy,
>>I\'m not sure what this is about (missing hours?).
>There are less hours logged in the Time Recording system then are invoiced for.
>>
>>On the vein of re-doing the invoicing, I feel duty-bound to point out
>>that your maths is a bit askew. If the Basic Rate (originally 41.49)
>>is 100% of the cost and 20% goes to the manager and finder (TimJ in
>>both cases) then to get the developer\'s hourly rate you should multiply
>>by 80%. Dividing by 1.2 is equivalent to multiplying by 5/6, i.e.
>>reserving 16.66% for the manager/finder.
>Well 80% would give the developer £28.80 from a standard rate of £36 which is wrong.
>So I figured that the developer rate is _marked-up_ by 20%, therefor working the other
>way (to establish the developer rate) you would expect to divide by 1.2.
OK. that sounds fine.
>Of course we could change this, when we discussed a £40 rate we figured on the developer
>getting £32 (80%), whereas following our existing system would mean the developer getting
>£33.33 per hour.
Nice such a nice number, but nicer than £32 :-)
>I personally don\'t care which way we do it, but perhaps we should decide?
Ditto. Shall we say that there is a developer\'s rate, plus 10% for management
plus 10% for finder\'s fee, i.e. the full rate is 120% of developers rate?
Myles
>Cheers
>Tim Joyce
>Chief Enthusiast
>HOOP Ltd
>tim@hoop.co.uk
>http://www.hoop.co.uk
>+44 1202 251 816
>>
>>Doh! Had to do it, though, didn\'t I Colin ;-)
>>
>>Myles
>>
>>
>>At 14:12 03/09/98 +0100, Tim Joyce wrote:
>>>Colin,
>>>
>>>I only have 11 hours booked in the time recording system, but don\'t panic:
>>>
>>>If you are happy with £25 per hour, it doesn\'t effect the calculation much.
>>>
>>>Should I recalculate based on 15.75 hours, you can change your invoice and
>>>on we go, or shall we just leave it as it stands (i\'m happy both ways).
>>>Chippy thoughts?
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>
>>>Tim Joyce
>>>Chief Enthusiast
>>>HOOP Ltd
>>>tim@hoop.co.uk
>>>http://www.hoop.co.uk
>>>+44 1202 251 816
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>
>>Myles Chippendale - mylesc@i-way.co.uk
>>Net Worker
>> MJ Chippendale Solutions
>> 77 Hurst Street - 01865 791078
>> Oxford OX4 1HA
>>
>> http://www.paneris.co.uk/mylesc.html
>>______________________________________________________
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12348,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Change of standard rate ',1,12347,'
Chippy,
>OK. that sounds fine.
No. No. No. You don\'t understand, when you start dissing someones math, and get it completely wrong, you APPOLOGISE, it is simply not good enough to just capitulate!
>>Of course we could change this, when we discussed a £40 rate we figured on the developer
>>getting £32 (80%), whereas following our existing system would mean the developer getting
>>£33.33 per hour.
>Nice such a nice number, but nicer than £32 :-)
>>I personally don\'t care which way we do it, but perhaps we should decide?
>Ditto. Shall we say that there is a developer\'s rate, plus 10% for management
>plus 10% for finder\'s fee, i.e. the full rate is 120% of developers rate?
Yes, developers will now earh £33.33 per hour. The harge out rate is 120% of this (£40)
TimP - where on the site should we record this?
>Myles
>>Cheers
>>Tim Joyce
>>Chief Enthusiast
>>HOOP Ltd
>>tim@hoop.co.uk
>>http://www.hoop.co.uk
>>+44 1202 251 816
>>>
>>>Doh! Had to do it, though, didn\'t I Colin ;-)
>>>
>>>Myles
>>>
>>>
>>>At 14:12 03/09/98 +0100, Tim Joyce wrote:
>>>>Colin,
>>>>
>>>>I only have 11 hours booked in the time recording system, but don\'t panic:
>>>>
>>>>If you are happy with £25 per hour, it doesn\'t effect the calculation much.
>>>>
>>>>Should I recalculate based on 15.75 hours, you can change your invoice and
>>>>on we go, or shall we just leave it as it stands (i\'m happy both ways).
>>>>Chippy thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>Cheers
>>>>
>>>>Tim Joyce
>>>>Chief Enthusiast
>>>>HOOP Ltd
>>>>tim@hoop.co.uk
>>>>http://www.hoop.co.uk
>>>>+44 1202 251 816
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>______________________________________________________
>>>
>>>Myles Chippendale - mylesc@i-way.co.uk
>>>Net Worker
>>> MJ Chippendale Solutions
>>> 77 Hurst Street - 01865 791078
>>> Oxford OX4 1HA
>>>
>>> http://www.paneris.co.uk/mylesc.html
>>>______________________________________________________
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12349,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Window handling on paneris',3,12304,'
There is something very confusing about the way in
which modify new page works at the moment.
I throw up a new window, using <tt>target=\'_new\'</tt>,
you are then returned, in your current window, to the new version of the document
you were viewing, so you now have two views of the file, different
but with the same version number.
You only need to go and make a cup of tea and you have no way of
telling the two windows apart, except from their content.
This is a bad thing.
TimJ said he didn\'t like it, which I brushed aside (sorry Tim),
but now I have got terribly confused myself.
So in the interim I am just going to return it to a non targetted
href, but I would still like to be able to see the old version
whilst editing it, can anyone help?
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12350,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Window handling on paneris',2,12349,'
Tim,
How about manually openning up a new window (File|New|Navigator Window)
which will usually load in the last page you were looking at.
You can then modify either page and still have the original.
Or is this not what you were asking?
Myles
>There is something very confusing about the way in
>which modify new page works at the moment.
>I throw up a new window, using <tt>target=\'_new\'</tt>,
>you are then returned, in your current window, to the new version of the document
>you were viewing, so you now have two views of the file, different
>but with the same version number.
>You only need to go and make a cup of tea and you have no way of
>telling the two windows apart, except from their content.
>This is a bad thing.
>TimJ said he didn\'t like it, which I brushed aside (sorry Tim),
>but now I have got terribly confused myself.
>So in the interim I am just going to return it to a non targetted
>href, but I would still like to be able to see the old version
>whilst editing it, can anyone help?
>yours
>timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12351,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Wishlist',3,0,'
Lets have a wish list.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12352,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Change of standard rate ',1,12348,'
>I am doing all my work on PanEris, and so have a few
>contracts which perhaps I should be back filling the
><em>Paneris Fund</em> with.
excellent idea
>Well, re-reading the <a href=\'/people/\'>people</a> page,
>it seems that the current understanding is that only money from I-way
>should go into the pot, because of the history.
chippy also has a project of dubious origins which he is contributing to paneris. Jenny is working directly for bloomsbury and will also pay 10% into the fund for this customer.
>The other reading is that only jobs which are <b>brought to the team</b>,
>ie shared out with other Paneris /people.
Not sure what you mean.
>So using current charges,
>Programmer cost 32
>Finders fee 4
>Project lead 2
>Paneris fund 2
>========================
>Programmer charge out 40
!!! How did you arrive at this, I have recently posted to /system about how I see the new charging structure.
notes on above:
if there is to be a contribution to paneris fund it should come as a cut in the finders fee, not the management fee (which strugles to cover costs at present).
Programmer cost 33.33
Finders fee 3.33
Project lead 3.33
========================
Programmer charge out 40
is how I see things
>The question is, on one man projects, should the paneris fund
>be receiving 5%.
only if the finders fee can not be justified.
>This means that the <em>project lead</em> recieves
>5% more than the programmer.
? don\'t understand what you mean.
>Which projects does or should this apply to, other than the
>known ones of /partners/iway ?
see above
this message xposted to /system
>yours
>timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12353,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Window handling on paneris',32,12350,'
Tim,
I think I see what you are getting at.
Rather than using <tt>TARGET="_new"</tt> to create a new edit window, you could use JavaScript to create the new edit window and then to close this window when editing is finished - explicitly targeting the original content frame for the updated page to appear in.
This would mean that you then only be left with the new version on screen, whilst as a JavaScript user you can view the page during editing.
<tt>noscript</tt> tags could be used to provide people who don\'t want to use JavaScript with the current functionality.
Does this help?
Colin
>Tim,
>How about manually openning up a new window (File|New|Navigator Window)
>which will usually load in the last page you were looking at.
>You can then modify either page and still have the original.
>Or is this not what you were asking?
>Myles
>>There is something very confusing about the way in
>>which modify new page works at the moment.
>>I throw up a new window, using <tt>target=\'_new\'</tt>,
>>you are then returned, in your current window, to the new version of the document
>>you were viewing, so you now have two views of the file, different
>>but with the same version number.
>>You only need to go and make a cup of tea and you have no way of
>>telling the two windows apart, except from their content.
>>This is a bad thing.
>>TimJ said he didn\'t like it, which I brushed aside (sorry Tim),
>>but now I have got terribly confused myself.
>>So in the interim I am just going to return it to a non targetted
>>href, but I would still like to be able to see the old version
>>whilst editing it, can anyone help?
>>yours
>>timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12354,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Change of standard rate ',3,12352,'
>>The other reading is that only jobs which are <b>brought to the team</b>,
>>ie shared out with other Paneris /people.
>Not sure what you mean.
Just that, only jobs where work is given to another member
of Paneris, ie not jobs where the finder does all the work.
>>So using current charges,
>>Programmer cost 32
>>Finders fee 4
>>Project lead 2
>>Paneris fund 2
>>========================
>>Programmer charge out 40
>!!! How did you arrive at this,
Seems right.
>I have recently posted to /system about how I see the new charging structure.
Yes, completeley incomprehensible posting :)
posted to the wrong place ?
[Snip] See detailed reply in <a href=\'/sales/\'>sales</a>.
>this message xposted to /system
I have put some guide lines as to which nodes to go to on the front page,
but this discussion could be appropriate on any of them except system :)
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12355,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Different views of paneris',3,12301,'
The next thing I want TODO is to offer the windows-like
view of panris, as shown shown on
<a href=\'http://www.onetti.u-net.com/onettiroot/\'>Alex\'s website</a>.
Sorry for the spam, but I have to post a message to get a selected distribution.
So much to fix :)
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12356,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Different views of paneris',3,12355,'
Martin,
I was shown your JavaScript Website View on one of
my partners <a href=\'http://www.onetti.u-net.com/onettiroot/\'>website</a>.
I like it very much and would wish to use it on my site.
I hope that this is OK.
You might find my
<a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/dos.html\'>DOS View</a>
entertaining.
yours
TimP
PS Please feel free to browse our <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/\'>website</a> and press
any buttons you like.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12357,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Message Board Scripts',32,12273,'
Although I find it very useful to be notified of
page modifications, new nodes and messages from the
Paneris site, I am finding that I end up with
masses of messages to plough through almost daily.
This is particularly the case as much of the
discussion goes on outside of "conventional"
working hours.
Additionally, many of the messages - in particular
new nodes and modifications - are simple one line
notifications. This take time to look through and
archive anything relevant.
Might I suggest the introduction of a "digest" mail
for each of these features, which could provide
a basic summary of discussions taking place, new
nodes and modifications to everyone at Paneris in
a single, compact mail.
The mail could be sent on a once or twice daily
basis, but also with a saturation level so that
users would still be aware of increased activity.
Futher features (if possible) could be to allow
users to "subscribe" to message threads which are
of interest to them, but which they had not been
sent the full text on.
Any thoughts?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12358,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Re: Message boards',3,12311,'
All,
To summarise the <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/messages/51.htm\'>Addressees on Message Boards</a>
thread:
We need a messaging system which will cater for
manually sent messages and automatic alerts.
The messages should ideally be relevant not only
to a node but also to a particular page, as per
<a href=\'http://www.hypernews.org/\'>HyperNews</a>.
When we get a Linux box many of these features will
become automatically available, as many of these
problems have been solved. (Newsgroup servers, Mailservers, mailing lists)
<smirk>
Everyone can then get a nifty @paneris.co.uk email address,
so you can always just not bother with your paneris mail.
</smirk>
As message distibution, archiving etc is so central
to Paneris I think that we need to take control of that
aspect of the system.
In particular we need (TimJ) to be able to subscribe and unsubscribe to
activities on projects we are not currently engaged in,
whilst, obviously, being able to see the archive.
MylesC/ColinR want daily system messages to be batched.
Be alerted to changes to documents which we altered last.
I tried to fix the distribution of system messages quickly,
and found that I had no idea of the data structure required.
This is my first thoughts:
Message Generators: people, processes
Message Recipients: people, processes
Cross of above with distibution type in it: immediate, batched, none; default immediate
Have I missed anything?
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12359,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','backups',3,0,'
I have just taken a backup of People.
The site now is too big for me to backup
regularly.
This problem can only get worse.
Automation of sharing this task ...........
yours
Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12360,'Thu Sep 10 5:11:43 1998','New improved Discussion Fora available',3,0,'
All,
The message boards are back up, with cunning Javascript.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12361,'Thu Sep 10 12:47:32 1998','Discussions improvements',3,12304,'
Whilst Multiboard.pl is a creaking and wierd system
it is easy to install and good enough for some, so I will continue to nurse it.
This is where I shall keep any ideas for improvements.
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12362,'Thu Sep 10 12:49:55 1998','Re: Discussions improvements',3,12361,'
1. Add cookie handling when available.
2. Add write to \'who has seen DB\'.
3. Add copy to message template
4. Add anyone on distribution to circulation for followups
That will keep me busy.
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12363,'Thu Sep 10 21:59:08 1998','Re: New improved Discussion Fora available',3,12360,'
>The message boards are back up, with cunning Javascript.
They really should be ok now, but I will have to restructure
again when I have time.
yours
timp
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12364,'Fri Sep 11 11:36:05 1998','updatedir.pl - less messages',1,12351,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by TimP
Updatedir produces loads of output messages, and restructures every node,
from the node it was invoked at. This means it makes loads of redundant changes.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12365,'Fri Sep 11 11:37:00 1998','Re: updatedir.pl - less messages : Done',3,12364,'
>Updatedir produces loads of output messages.
Stopped that.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12366,'Fri Sep 11 11:43:34 1998','Stop spamming with Modify messages :done',3,12351,'
The modify messages are now emailed only to lurker.
Lurker\'s email is archived at /system/lurker/
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12367,'Fri Sep 11 11:53:42 1998','Code review',3,0,'
Boys,
I had terrible problems with Filehandles and <code>my</code>
last night.
The resulting code was:
<code>
sub open_relative_url_write
{
my $relative_url = shift;
unless($root){$root = &get_root};
&open_file_write("$root$relative_url");
}
sub open_file_write
{
local $file = shift;
use FileHandle;
$fh = new FileHandle;
$fh->open(">$file") || &cgi_die("Cannot open file for write ($file)");
return $fh;
}
</code>
If I use <code>my</code> instead of <code>local</code>,
and before I was using <code>FileHandle</code> I got into an awful mess.
So is it right now ?
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12368,'Tue Sep 15 11:53:17 1998','Re: new box',3,12334,'
The new box may be Pandora\'s.
We have to get quite a few things tightened up, I say,
before we lift the lid.
I am very unhappy with working on a live machine, and so propose to
buy an additional box for off line development at 77 Hurst St.
I know WilliamC has at least one Linux box, but think that TimJ should
think about purchasing a local machine.
The integration of Paneris with panerisdev is something which
needs to be planned and agreed. In particular I would be unhappy with
all of my work for the last x years being thrown away.
The upgrade path that I envisage is that the PMS is
ported to a local machine at 77 Hurst Street.
I would integrate paneris functionality with the PMS,
thereby coming to understand how the DBI works.
We have <a href=\'/rules#Guidelines#Innovation\'>dropped the ball</a> a bit as we have not got
some of the prerequisites to run PMS locally.
At the moment the outstanding actions/options seem to be:
1. Port PMS to McMeric (my localhost) and use Access95
2. Port PMS to McMeric and buy Access97 (:()
3. Port PMS to McMeric and use free Win95 compatible DB
4. Port PMS to new Linux box (Eric6)
5. Not bother, buy new linux box (named ....), install PMS,
port a bit of Paneris and throw away the rest. (:()
Next issue is the domain name of new machine.
We can, and perhaps should, put www.paneris.co.uk and
www.hoop.co.uk on it.
But perhaps we should move up to www.paneris.org(.uk)?
What then should we do with www.paneris.co.uk and
www.hoop.co.uk?
I would very much like MylesC to port PMS to my local machine,
with or without data, on any DB he likes, so that I can get on
with the above.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12369,'Tue Sep 15 11:56:15 1998','Re: Online modification available',3,12290,'
I have changed the Arrow to two update buttons.
If you choose <beta> then a link to the www3c validator
is inserted, which is deleted when you go <live>.
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12370,'Tue Sep 15 15:50:24 1998','Re: Mea Culpa',3,12289,'
I have been assuming that I had solved the message
distribution problem and that you lot were not getting my
test messages and that I was sending messages to individuals.
But I wasn\'t passing in the distribution list to my email routine,
so I suspect I have been spamming again, and that there are
little messages on your people nodes which you have no idea
I posted, unless you are on the paneris alias.
Anyway, you can now create pages at a node by inserting a word or
phrase enclosed in square brackets in a message.
If you have not got a fixed IP address but use a group of addresses
your name and address will be filled in for you.
Must try to program when awake.
Sorry.
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12371,'Tue Sep 15 15:56:22 1998','Re: Re: Mea Culpa',3,12370,'
I have been assuming that I had solved the message
distribution problem and that you lot were not getting my
test messages and that I was sending messages to individuals.
But I wasn\'t passing in the distribution list to my email routine,
so I suspect I have been spamming again, and that there are
little messages on your people nodes which you have no idea
I posted, unless you are on the paneris alias.
Anyway, you can now create pages at a node by inserting a word or
phrase enclosed in square brackets in a message.
If you have not got a fixed IP address but use a group of addresses
your name and address will be filled in for you.
Must try to program when awake.
Sorry.
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12372,'Tue Sep 15 18:25:14 1998','Re: Re: new box',2,12368,'
>The new box may be Pandora\'s.
>
>We have to get quite a few things tightened up, I say,
>before we lift the lid.
>
>I am very unhappy with working on a live machine, and so propose to
>buy an additional box for off line development at 77 Hurst St.
>
>I know WilliamC has at least one Linux box, but think that TimJ should
>think about purchasing a local machine.
Tim has allowed myself to install Access97, so the DB angle of
all this is lessened. He might want a Linux Box anyway...
>The integration of Paneris with panerisdev is something which
>needs to be planned and agreed. In particular I would be unhappy with
>all of my work for the last x years being thrown away.
>
>The upgrade path that I envisage is that the PMS is
>ported to a local machine at 77 Hurst Street.
>I would integrate paneris functionality with the PMS,
>thereby coming to understand how the DBI works.
Which functionality are you considering incorporating?
>We have <a href=\'/rules#Guidelines#Innovation\'>dropped the ball</a> a bit as we have not got
>some of the prerequisites to run PMS locally.
Only in retrospect (this document is, I think, new) but
point taken.
>At the moment the outstanding actions/options seem to be:
>1. Port PMS to McMeric (my localhost) and use Access95
We could have done this months ago. The problem is that the
DB on panerisdev is in Access97 format.
>2. Port PMS to McMeric and buy Access97 (:()
>3. Port PMS to McMeric and use free Win95 compatible DB
Does anyone know of one?
>4. Port PMS to new Linux box (Eric6)
>5. Not bother, buy new linux box (named ....), install PMS,
>port a bit of Paneris and throw away the rest. (:()
Why do we have to throw away any of Paneris? So long as we
can define mutliple CGI directories to keep things separated,
if necessary...
>Next issue is the domain name of new machine.
>We can, and perhaps should, put www.paneris.co.uk and
>www.hoop.co.uk on it.
>
>But perhaps we should move up to www.paneris.org(.uk)?
>What then should we do with www.paneris.co.uk and
>www.hoop.co.uk?
To some extent Paneris is your name, and HOOP is certainly
Tim\'s, so I\'d say it was up to you two.
>I would very much like MylesC to port PMS to my local machine,
>with or without data, on any DB he likes, so that I can get on
>with the above.
In a couple of weeks, at least.
>
>yours
>TimP
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12373,'Tue Sep 29 1:27:49 1998','Perl bug?',3,0,'
I seem to have found a bug in my implementation of Perl.
The documentation says that <tt>$\'</tt> is equivalent to <tt>$POSTMATCH</tt>.
In <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/comment.pl?/cgi-bin/modify_page.pl#279\'>line 279 of modify.pl</a>
<tt>$POSTMATCH</tt> was empty, but compiled. So I have used the old fashioned notation.
Can anyone shed any light?
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
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12374,'Tue Sep 29 10:27:20 1998','Re: Perl bug?',2,12373,'
>I seem to have found a bug in my implementation of Perl.
>The documentation says that <tt>$\'</tt> is equivalent to <tt>$POSTMATCH</tt>.
>In <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/comment.pl?/cgi-bin/modify_page.pl#279\'>line 279 of modify.pl</a>
><tt>$POSTMATCH</tt> was empty, but compiled. So I have used the old fashioned notation.
>Can anyone shed any light?
>
>yours
>TimP
Dunno...
Myles
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12375,'Sat Oct 3 11:59:34 1998','Even more templates',2,0,'
I have updated the templates so that you can say:
[[ TEST $var ]]
What is printed when var is true
[[ FAIL TEST $var ]]
The else bit
[[ END TEST $var ]]
in a template and the relevant bit of text will be included
depending on $var (as set by the environments).
Also, I have extended the [[REPEAT func]] section so that
if you give a tag a name attribute of the form
name=somefieldname[<a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?otherfield\'>otherfield</a>;]
then on each interation of the loop the name of the tag will
be set to somefieldnameXXXX, where XXXX is the value of
$otherfield. If the tag is an input field then its value
is set to the value of $somefieldname each time.
The idea is that $otherfield is unique on each on step
of the loop so that you can uniquely name REPEATED rows
of input boxes and set their initial values.
Example:
[[ REPEAT chalet ]]
$chaletname :
<input name=notes[<a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?id\'>id</a>;]>
[[ END REPEAT chalet ]]
will expand to:
Che Midgely :
<input type=text name=notes36 value="Too small">
Skis R us :
<input type=text name=notes56 value="Great!">
when &chalet returns 2 chalets, the first with id=36 and
notes="Too small", the second with id=56 and notes="Great!".
So we\'ve got variables, loops and branches in this template
language. Stick a fork in it...:-)
Comments?
Myles
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12376,'Mon Oct 5 13:25:13 1998','Re: Even more templates',1,12375,'
Fab.
This messgeboard is not quoting the messages correctly - read previous message online.
','f','',157,0,0);
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12377,'Mon Oct 5 17:08:17 1998','Re: Re: Even more templates',2,12376,'
>Fab.
>This messgeboard is not quoting the messages correctly - read previous message online.
FYI, this is due to TimP\'s convention that if you put <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?sometext\'>sometext</a>; in a page
then it is interpretted as a link to a new file. Click on it and you will
be allowed to create a new page.
I personally would rather hardcode links like this than have PanEris take liberties
with my e-mails.
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
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12378,'Mon Oct 5 18:50:15 1998','suggestion for post-iglu',4,0,'Posted on behalf of WilliamC by Myles
As an experiment in managing collaboratively developed software using
CVS and some sort of virtual paperwork, we should spec, develop and
maintain an enhanced version of the template/database utilities we
have done for iglu.
I think there are three things it needs to support:
Templates) The ability to use the same file as a mockup and as an
online page with some logic behind it (or at least as near as
possible). Most of the logic is kept in the script but designer- or
customer-friendly placeholders and simple instructions can be put in
the page.
Database integration) Knowing about the structure of the database, so
that you can use notations similar to $property.skiresort.skidomain,
or just $skidomain or whatever, in the script and on the page.
Site structure) Going beyond what we have,
Site structure
--------------
It would be nice to be turn the logic of the site structure inside
out, and turn it from being event-driven to being loop-driven.
Make CGI scripting look like GUI database scripting.
(Analogous to the difference between writing event-driven GUI programs
and writing with threads.)
For instance, maybe it would look something like this:
page ChaletSearchResults {
property: Iglu.Property;
# this makes <A HREF=$addToShortlist> available in the template
action addToShortlist {
# do what is necessary to get a booking, including displaying
# login screens if necessary, then display shortlist
shortlistAdd(booking(), property);
# redisplay current scren
}
}
Iglu.Booking booking () =
if (there is a cookie) then
iglu.booking (cookie contents)
else {
while not found {
let loginInfo = display LoginRequest;
if loginInfo == null then
display LoginRequestLoginAbsent;
...
}
...
display LoginConfirm (customer = customer, booking = booking)
...
shortlistAdd (booking: Iglu.Booking, property: Iglu.Property) {
# do something with the DB
...
# display the shortlist
display chaletShortlist (properties = ...)
}
The system has a simple little scripting language (probably simpler
than sketched above), which is allowed to call Perl or whatever when
you need the power of a proper language. In each page it sends out it
stores the complete state of the virtual machine executing the script
which implements the logic of the site. Effectively it includes a
stack/program counter in the page so that when the page comes back it
can continue executing from where it left off until it reaches the
point at which it next needs to send out a page.
I think all this together is within reasonable reach, it would be fun
and we could definitely "sell" it in the free software sense!
Thoughts?
','f','',157,0,0);
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12379,'Mon Oct 12 10:59:30 1998','Re: suggestion for post-iglu',4,12378,'
>In each page it sends out it
>stores the complete state of the virtual machine executing the script
>which implements the logic of the site.
Hmmm, or it would be REALLY easy to implement this using
Perl or Java threads---you keep a thread representing each
open session alive in the language runtime on the server,
and use the inter-thread comms to make "show a page and
get the form info that comes back" look like a method
call.
So how about: it parses the templates, on demand or
all in a big batch if you ask it to, into an efficient
intermediate representation using a proper HTML parser;
all that stays in the memory as long as the server runs
(like I guess with servlets);
so does a thread representing each session, although there
are defined entry points which can create a thread from
a ?-url.
','f','',157,0,0);
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12380,'Wed Oct 21 15:33:03 1998','Automatic create_page urls',3,0,'
As you may, or may not know,
if you enclosed a piece of text (without spaces) in
square brackets then a URL to the create page was inserted.
This has been inconvenient a few times, so now you have to
enclose the text in two pairs of square brackets.
yours
TimP
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12381,'Fri Oct 23 15:36:34 1998','double submission ...',4,0,'
it\'s possible to post postings twice by using the
back button and pressing "commit yourself" again
','f','',157,0,0);
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12382,'Fri Oct 23 15:37:30 1998','double submission ...',4,0,'
it\'s possible to post postings twice by using the
back button and pressing "commit yourself" again
','f','',157,0,0);
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12383,'Fri Oct 23 15:40:29 1998','Re: double submission ...',4,12382,'
>it\'s possible to post postings twice by using the
>back button and pressing "commit yourself" again
sorry, meant of course going back to the "you\'ve sent
this" screen and pressing reload
','f','',157,0,0);
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12384,'Sat Oct 31 14:59:04 1998','by the way',4,0,'
By the way has everyone seen the
<A HREF=http://lxr.linux.no>linux cross-reference</A>
system, as used by <A HREF=http://www.winehq.com>Wine</A>
as well as on the Linux kernel, mozilla.org and so on;
also mozilla.org\'s
<A HREF=http://www.mozilla.org/bugs>Bugzilla</A>
','f','',157,0,0);
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12385,'Sat Oct 31 16:09:58 1998','New node names',3,0,'
All,
I am a bit stuck on what to call some new nodes under system.
1. A node for the messaging system
2. A node for the change control system
3. A node for the new box (under system/setup)
I think that we want a rather non-standard messaging system,
in particular I would like to see it to include <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/philosophy/messages/23.shtml\'>quara</a>
handling and voting.
So it would need a special name (COMMENT = Co-Operative Messaging Mangling ENTity)
CCS would do for Change Control System
The new box might be called NS (Non-Serviam :)
Anyway, names are so important that I thought I should CFV.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
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12386,'Sat Oct 31 16:11:00 1998','Re: Re: double submission ...',3,12383,'
>>it\'s possible to post postings twice by using the
>>back button and pressing "commit yourself" again
>sorry, meant of course going back to the "you\'ve sent
>this" screen and pressing reload
What should I do about this?
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
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12387,'Sat Oct 31 16:15:49 1998','Re: Re: Re: double submission ...',4,12386,'
>What should I do about this?
nothing, it doesn\'t matter in the slightest :)
(it\'s even easier to do with the Iglu boards!)
(NB someone has actually posted a message on an
iglu bulletin board!)
','f','',157,0,0);
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12388,'Sat Oct 31 16:32:26 1998','Re: Re: Re: Even more templates',3,12377,'
>>Fab.
>>This messgeboard is not quoting the messages correctly - read previous message online.
>FYI, this is due to TimP\'s convention that if you put <a href=\'/paneris/cgi-bin/create_page.pl?sometext\'>sometext</a>; in a page
>then it is interpretted as a link to a new file. Click on it and you will
>be allowed to create a new page.
>I personally would rather hardcode links like this than have PanEris take liberties
>with my e-mails.
>Myles
HELP,
I cannot get the <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/comment.pl?/paneris/cgi-bin/htmlutil.pl#860\'>transform_input</a> sub-routine to work.
What it is meant to do is enable one to invent tags, such at <newpage>, or <altavista>, but it won\'t
evaluate the $1.
If this were implemented, then I could get rid of the double bracket mechanism,
and people could invent any tags they liked.
(Tag definitions are held in the <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/comment.pl?/paneris/cgi-bin/ini/site_ini.pl\'>site ini file</a>).
Thanks in advance.
timP
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12389,'Sat Oct 31 16:45:56 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Even more templates',4,12388,'
>I cannot get the <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/comment.pl?/paneris/cgi-bin/htmlutil.pl#860\'transform_input</a> sub-routine to work.
It\'s probably the [\w]+
(or left square bracket backslash w right square bracket plus)
you must mean \w+
(backslash w plus)
','f','',157,0,0);
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12390,'Sat Oct 31 16:53:58 1998','Re: Perl bug?',4,12373,'
>Can anyone shed any light?
Did you
use English;
? (silly question)
','f','',157,0,0);
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12391,'Sat Oct 31 17:07:53 1998','Re: Re: Perl bug?',3,12390,'
>>Can anyone shed any light?
>Did you
> use English;
>? (silly question)
No I didn\'t, silly me, thought if it was in the book it wouldn\'t need a <tt>use</tt>.
Thanks
timP
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12392,'Sat Oct 31 17:45:49 1998','Re: New node names',2,12385,'
>All,
>I am a bit stuck on what to call some new nodes under system.
>1. A node for the messaging system
>2. A node for the change control system
>3. A node for the new box (under system/setup)
>I think that we want a rather non-standard messaging system,
>in particular I would like to see it to include <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/philosophy/messages/23.shtml\'>quara</a>
>handling and voting.
>So it would need a special name (COMMENT = Co-Operative Messaging Mangling ENTity)
Fine
>CCS would do for Change Control System
Fine
>The new box might be called NS (Non-Serviam :)
I like newbox
>Anyway, names are so important that I thought I should CFV.
>yours
>TimP
Myles
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12393,'Sat Oct 31 17:46:24 1998','Re: Re: Re: double submission ...',2,12386,'
>>>it\'s possible to post postings twice by using the
>>>back button and pressing "commit yourself" again
>>sorry, meant of course going back to the "you\'ve sent
>>this" screen and pressing reload
>What should I do about this?
>TimP
train your users, or get better ones :-)
','f','',157,0,0);
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12394,'Sat Oct 31 17:50:49 1998','Off topic',2,12387,'
>>What should I do about this?
>nothing, it doesn\'t matter in the slightest :)
>(it\'s even easier to do with the Iglu boards!)
>(NB someone has actually posted a message on an
>iglu bulletin board!)
My god. It\'s Alive! How happy making.
','f','',157,0,0);
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12395,'Sat Oct 31 17:57:14 1998','Re: Off topic',4,12394,'
>My god. It\'s Alive! How happy making.
Yeah, I wonder what he thought of Ben\'s newsletter :)
','f','',157,0,0);
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12396,'Mon Nov 2 18:47:57 1998','colours',4,0,'
Many of the "Partners" links (the ones that are
active projects, dunno?) come out black on black
for me (Solaris/Netscape 4).
','f','',157,0,0);
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12397,'Mon Nov 2 19:39:08 1998','Re: colours',3,12396,'
>Many of the "Partners" links (the ones that are
>active projects, dunno?) come out black on black
>for me (Solaris/Netscape 4).
apr, catalyst, iway and wiliamc have all chosen to
password protect their top level partner nodes,
so have an access file in the directory, and have
the display blacked out.
(You can still tell the node name).
chameleon puts passwords on active subnodes.
All of the above is maintained automatically.
yours
TimP
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12398,'Mon Nov 2 19:45:48 1998','Re: Re: colours',4,12397,'
>apr, catalyst, iway and wiliamc
^^^^^^^
soon put a stop to that (tappety tap)
>have all chosen to
>password protect their top level partner nodes,
>so have an access file in the directory, and have
>the display blacked out.
Why????????????????????????
(NB they go grey-on-black if I click on them)
','f','',157,0,0);
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12399,'Mon Nov 2 19:56:34 1998','Re: colours',1,12396,'
>Many of the "Partners" links (the ones that are
>active projects, dunno?) come out black on black
>for me (Solaris/Netscape 4).
It\'s not a bug, it\'s a feature!!
When an area is password protected, the link is also hidden. I don\'t really like it, but I\'m sure you can change it if you dare <font name="darlick">REGENERATE</font>\'.
','f','',157,0,0);
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12400,'Sun Nov 8 23:43:09 1998','Re: Re: New node names',3,12392,'
CCS, COMMENT and newbox created.
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
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12401,'Fri Nov 13 12:11:52 1998','munging HTML on paneris',4,0,'Posted on behalf of WilliamC by TimP
Is it possible to have paneris not munge HTML pages?
The ProjectDocs thing I put up has has all its blank lines removed,
which makes editing it a bit of a pain \'cos you can\'t see the section
structure very clearly.
','f','',157,0,0);
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12402,'Fri Nov 13 12:18:51 1998','Re: munging HTML on paneris',3,12401,'
>Is it possible to have paneris not munge HTML pages?
>The ProjectDocs thing I put up has has all its blank lines removed,
>which makes editing it a bit of a pain \'cos you can\'t see the section
>structure very clearly.
I think the line that you are complaining of is
<a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/comment.pl?/paneris/cgi-bin/htmlutil.pl#870>870 in htmlutil.pl</a>,
which removes all /r s as these tend to get put in by netscape, so if you don\'t
remove them trhen you get you document munged with double spaces (on windoze anyway).
So the answer is yes it can be done but worse consequences follow.
What should I do?
yours
timP
PS does everyone know the FTP password for paneris?
','f','',157,0,0);
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12403,'Fri Nov 13 14:20:29 1998','Re: Re: munging HTML on paneris',4,12402,'
>I think the line that you are complaining of is
><a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/comment.pl?/paneris/cgi-bin/htmlutil.pl#870>870 in htmlutil.pl</a>,
>which removes all /r s as these tend to get put in by netscape, so if you don\'t
>remove them trhen you get you document munged with double spaces (on windoze anyway).
I wouldn\'t have thought that would delete blank lines,
since that would require removing \'\n\'s as well.
Perhaps someone edited it locally and thought it looked
nicer without the blank lines?
','f','',157,0,0);
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12404,'Fri Nov 13 15:05:56 1998','Re: Re: Re: munging HTML on paneris',3,12403,'
>>I think the line that you are complaining of is
>><a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/comment.pl?/paneris/cgi-bin/htmlutil.pl#870>870 in htmlutil.pl</a>,
>>which removes all /r s as these tend to get put in by netscape, so if you don\'t
>>remove them trhen you get you document munged with double spaces (on windoze anyway).
>I wouldn\'t have thought that would delete blank lines,
>since that would require removing \'\n\'s as well.
>Perhaps someone edited it locally and thought it looked
>nicer without the blank lines?
That might have happened online, as it is such a small editting box
I tend to use as few blank lines as possible.
I would still like to know exactly what Netscape is doing with
textboxes, \r and \n \'cos sometimes thing get double spaced.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
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12405,'Mon Nov 16 21:47:49 1998','Expanding site tree',2,0,'
Dear all,
I have put a demonstration expanding site tree (a la
Windows Explorer) on the site at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/expander2.html
It is written in Javascript and is nicked from
http://www.dannyg.com/javascript/ol2/
It is generated from mcmeric (TimP\'s local machine
which has a copy of Paneris on it). It has 2700 entries
(files and directories, not including "control" pages
which are generated automatically, such as index.htmls
- or is that indexes.html? )
of which 2300 are under partners. It is 260K or so and
is unuseable for practical purposes because it has to
reload the page each time (even from cache this is a non-trivial
amount of time) and them go through printing out one line
for each entry depending on your cookie.
I haven\'t tried the DHTML version yet, which will still
be a large file (over 200K) but might be faster in use
\'cos once the page is loaded, that\'s it. The main problem,
though, is loading 260K in one go whether you want to or not.
What we want to do is only load one directory\'s worth of
data at a time, and display it in the correct place in
the tree display. We could do this with Java and maybe
DHTML, but does anyone have any other ideas? Will LDAP
help us here (at the cost of restricting our users even
further?).
Thoughts?
','f','',157,0,0);
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12406,'Tue Nov 17 9:29:56 1998','Re: Expanding site tree',4,12405,'
I wasn\'t terribly taken with this because it took ages
to load and then immediately sent my netscape to 35Mb
at 100% CPU load ...
','f','',157,0,0);
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12407,'Tue Nov 17 9:36:39 1998','Re: Expanding site tree',4,12405,'
>What we want to do is only load one directory\'s worth of
>data at a time, and display it in the correct place in
>the tree display. We could do this with Java and maybe
>DHTML, but does anyone have any other ideas? Will LDAP
>help us here (at the cost of restricting our users even
>further?).
What about doing it with lots of frames? Although I suppose
that will mean paneris getting hit with 9999 simultaneous
requests in the worst case ...
If we are fetching a directory at a time, then it\'s
hard to think of anything which will improve on boring
old CGI.
','f','',157,0,0);
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12408,'Tue Nov 17 11:43:11 1998','Re: Expanding site tree',2,12405,'
>Dear all,
[snip]
>What we want to do is only load one directory\'s worth of
>data at a time, and display it in the correct place in
>the tree display. We could do this with Java and maybe
>DHTML, but does anyone have any other ideas? Will LDAP
>help us here (at the cost of restricting our users even
>further?).
>Thoughts?
Or, we could only inlcude the directories, not files!
','f','',157,0,0);
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12409,'Tue Nov 17 14:52:42 1998','Re: Re: Expanding site tree',1,12407,'
>What about doing it with lots of frames? Although I suppose
>that will mean paneris getting hit with 9999 simultaneous
>requests in the worst case ...
No. not more frames... ahhhhhh.
>If we are fetching a directory at a time, then it\'s
>hard to think of anything which will improve on boring
>old CGI.
this is indeed the way, although seeing how big the DHTML is when just grabbing the directories would be interesting.
','f','',157,0,0);
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12410,'Tue Nov 17 22:25:31 1998','Expanding Site View',2,0,'
There is a new \'view\' of Paneris (to complement the
standard view, dosview etc) which can be found at
http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/test/expander.html
It uses the Javascript expanding tree but only on
the directories and is OK, I think. If there\'s enthusiasm
I can convert the DHTML version as well.
','f','',157,0,0);
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12411,'Tue Nov 17 22:55:18 1998','Re: Expanding Site View',1,12410,'
>There is a new \'view\' of Paneris (to complement the
>standard view, dosview etc) which can be found at
> http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/test/expander.html
>It uses the Javascript expanding tree but only on
>the directories and is OK, I think. If there\'s enthusiasm
>I can convert the DHTML version as well.
lush, when can we make it the default view?
contents, search and messages links didn\'t work until after i had clicked on a directory.
I feel myself warming to paneris. TimP, you must feel a bit triumphant tonight.
till tomorrow..
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12412,'Tue Nov 17 23:28:20 1998','Re: Re: Expanding Site View',3,12411,'
>>There is a new \'view\' of Paneris (to complement the
>>standard view, dosview etc) which can be found at
>> http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/test/expander.html
>>It uses the Javascript expanding tree but only on
>>the directories and is OK, I think. If there\'s enthusiasm
>>I can convert the DHTML version as well.
>lush, when can we make it the default view?
I like it, and offer some enthusiasm.
>contents, search and messages links didn\'t work until after i had clicked on a directory.
Me too, needs fixing
>I feel myself warming to paneris.
? only now ?
>TimP, you must feel a bit triumphant tonight.
A co-operative is fun.
TimP
(triumphant)
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12413,'Wed Nov 18 15:21:55 1998','Re: Re: Re: Expanding Site View',2,12412,'
>>>There is a new \'view\' of Paneris (to complement the
>>>standard view, dosview etc) which can be found at
>>> http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/test/expander.html
>>>It uses the Javascript expanding tree but only on
>>>the directories and is OK, I think. If there\'s enthusiasm
>>>I can convert the DHTML version as well.
>>lush, when can we make it the default view?
>I like it, and offer some enthusiasm.
There are a couple of problems with making it the
default view on Paneris, especially for more casual
users and partners/customers:
1) links to directories don\'t really work (see below)
2) You can get into different nodes using the right
hand frame, but the left hand frame won\'t reflect
that change.
Note that both of these wouldn\'t be problems if we could
read the URL of the right hand frame from the left hand
frame. Unfortunately, by default, the URL is tainted (see
Javascript security) and so any script that tries to
access the URL of a page not on Paneris will die with
a nasty error message.
<h3>Directories</h3>
At the minute if you ask for any directory, including
the root one, you get index.html. Try clicking on any
of the links from the welcome page to see the affect!
If we are going to have different, configurable views we
need to change this - we need to run a scipt to pick the
appropriate content to return: Just the subject.shtml
(for expander) dosview.html or index.html
(for "Paneris Classic" :-)
This would help with the problem of identifying directories
and scripts which I think we need to properly integrate
Paneris and PMS. For instance, I would like to see each
persons page actually be a template which is a cross between
the PMS people report (so you get up-to-date addresses and
all that) and the Paneris people page (so that people can
ammend it to their taste). All we need is a bit of metadata
about each node (or node type), run a script and Voila!
We have a fully configurable site which handles a filesystem
and a database...
But that\'s all a PanerisII thing.
>>contents, search and messages links didn\'t work until after i had clicked on a directory.
>Me too, needs fixing
Fixed.
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12414,'Mon Nov 23 9:39:55 1998','create a new node',1,0,'
gives the following (on clicking the yellow arrow on the blue page):
Forbidden
You don\'t have permission to access /paneris/cgi-bin/ on this server.
?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12415,'Mon Nov 23 17:01:12 1998','create a new page:',1,0,'
maybe I\'m having a bad day, but I just got this after create page, at paneris root.
Missing template file at top level:(/u/www/virtual/panerispage_input.template)
Try Again..
timJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12416,'Mon Nov 23 17:01:36 1998','fixed',1,12414,'
but god knows how?
>gives the following (on clicking the yellow arrow on the blue page):
>Forbidden
>You don\'t have permission to access /paneris/cgi-bin/ on this server.
>?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12417,'Wed Nov 25 1:16:57 1998','Re: create a new page : Attn Myles',3,12415,'
>maybe I\'m having a bad day, but I just got this after create page, at paneris root.
>Missing template file at top level:(/u/www/virtual/panerispage_input.template)
>Try Again..
I think that this is due to a change in htmlutil.pl,
create_node.pl takes a query string of the form name=xxx,
and create_page.pl can take a query string of \w+.
The function get_server_node_leaf_or_die has been modified
to expect a node name in the query string.
Anyway, it is too late to think up the correct way of doing it,
so I have changed htmlutil.pl back(ish).
Does anyone have a well thought out convention for the
use of the query string variable?
I started using just bare words, but increasingly like to use
<tt>var=val</tt>.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12418,'Wed Nov 25 10:27:23 1998','Re: Re: create a new page : Attn Myles',1,12417,'
>Does anyone have a well thought out convention for the
>use of the query string variable?
>I started using just bare words, but increasingly like to use
><tt>var=val</tt>.
If I understand you correctly, you want to know weather to do:
a) script.pl?findthatpage or
b) script.pl?action=findthatpage
in which case b) is deffinitely correct.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12419,'Wed Nov 25 10:49:56 1998','Re: Re: Re: create a new page : Attn Myles',4,12418,'
>in which case b) is deffinitely correct.
nonono, you need
script.pl?_paneris_object=page-(whatever)
:-)
or
script.pl?_paneris_object=(some URL-escaped Java bytecode)
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12420,'Sat Nov 28 17:19:00 1998','Front page',4,0,'
I recently read what\'s on the front page of Paneris for the first time
and had some thoughts.
<UL>
<LI> It seems a bit dense. Perhaps that\'s why I\'ve never really
noticed it before.
<LI> Bits of it could have come straight out of Dilbert.
</UL>
In addition
<UL>
<LI> it\'s doesn\'t trumpet our competence and achievements anywhere
in the first 45 reader-seconds.
</UL>
Therefore
<UL>
<LI> as a sales pitch it\'s perhaps suboptimal. (I know we are
unlikely ever to get work purely on the basis of the front
page, but even so ...)
</UL>
> Our primary focus is on the IT systems used to produce solutions.
Shurely `utilized\'?
> Paneris is committed to implement systems which comply with
> international standards as they evolve.
What are we, a telecoms outfit suddenly?
> We ask that our customers join in the spirit of innovation and bear with us
> where the details are a bit thin.
That could be said be made to sound far more positive.
So here\'s a stab at an alternative. I take it that the most
important purpose of the front page is to put across our USPs.
<UL>
<LI> We are competent [with a link from HERE to our showcases!!]
<LI> We are a collective---and therefore a friendly and trustworthy
business partner for you the long term.
<LI> We have pioneered new ways of working---which foster
flexibility and efficiency, so better results for you.
<LI> We stress quality and transparency---so we get things right
and you feel in control.
<LI> We try to understand your real problems.
</UL>
I\'m not particularly claiming that my effort really achieves this
yet. Comments? Here are mine:
<UL>
<LI> I\'m not sure about having all those links embedded in the text.
On the other hand I don\'t think a bullet list/menu is really
the right thing either. Perhaps just text with more discreetly
highlighted hrefs, and a bar of links underneath?
<LI> I would like to shorten it.
<LI> Have I been too subtle in pointing out the USPs inherent in
being a virtual collective? I don\'t think we should stress
it too much at the start or people will get the idea we are
a teleworking commune ...
<LI> Otherwise I have been staring at it too long. Someone else
have a go.
</UL>
I also think we could <A HREF=#people>tart up</A> the people page. In
short I\'d feel happier if the front page, and everything directly
reachable from it, was given a more or less American presentational
gloss.
<H1 ALIGN=CENTER>Welcome to PanEris</H1>
PanEris is home to a collective of web developers working together
as a virtual corporation.
We take on projects for clients who wish to outsource the
development of their Internet/Intranet sites, and the information
systems behind them. (See the <A HREF=/clients.html>showcase</A> of
our biggest projects, or the <A HREF=/partners>repository</A> of all
our working documents.)
Whether we are delivering a turnkey solution or advising an
in-house team, we always seek to understand the broader business
context of the customer\'s requirements. Our aim is to become their
long-term supply partner.
All the <A HREF=/people>members of PanEris</A> are FIXME big
hitters who have worked both in blue-chip organisations and with small
startups. They bring a range of skills from graphic design to
software and database engineering (and far beyond).
The collective\'s <A HREF=/philosophy>aims</A> are very idealistic.
For our customers, their most tangible consequences are the emphasis
we place on openness, and the flexibility and efficiency of our
organisation.
The PanEris web site supports the structured
<A HREF=/quality>quality procedures</A> and transparent communications
which lie at the heart of our working practices. It isn\'t
flashy---and we don\'t apologise for that. We are busy people, and our
spare time is taken up with preparing
<A HREF=/system/newbox>PanEris II</A>!
We believe that our way of working offers higher quality for our
customers, and a better quality of life to our members. If you would
like to know more, we\'d be delighted to <A HREF=/contact.shtml>hear
from you</A>.
<H1><I>For the `people\' page</I></H1>
I think we should have little blurbs about us, bite-sized and all
on one page, since we are one of the USPs. Also a little directory of
specialisms we can offer, since we don\'t want to give the impression
that we are dumb web-heads, and you never know when someone might say
"that\'s just what I need!".
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12421,'Mon Nov 30 9:12:50 1998','Re: Front page',1,12420,'
fab.
you going to put it up?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12422,'Mon Nov 30 11:13:20 1998','Re: Re: Front page',4,12421,'
>fab.
>you going to put it up?
If no objections by end of today
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12423,'Mon Nov 30 12:51:48 1998','Re: Front page',2,12420,'
>I recently read what\'s on the front page of Paneris for the first time
>and had some thoughts.
><UL>
> <LI> It seems a bit dense. Perhaps that\'s why I\'ve never really
> noticed it before.
> <LI> Bits of it could have come straight out of Dilbert.
></UL>
>In addition
><UL>
> <LI> it\'s doesn\'t trumpet our competence and achievements anywhere
> in the first 45 reader-seconds.
></UL>
Agreed. Customer-focussed has to be the watch word.
[snip]
> So here\'s a stab at an alternative. I take it that the most
>important purpose of the front page is to put across our USPs.
><UL>
> <LI> We are competent [with a link from HERE to our showcases!!]
> <LI> We are a collective---and therefore a friendly and trustworthy
> business partner for you the long term.
> <LI> We have pioneered new ways of working---which foster
> flexibility and efficiency, so better results for you.
> <LI> We stress quality and transparency---so we get things right
> and you feel in control.
> <LI> We try to understand your real problems.
></UL>
>I\'m not particularly claiming that my effort really achieves this
>yet. Comments? Here are mine:
><UL>
> <LI> I\'m not sure about having all those links embedded in the text.
> On the other hand I don\'t think a bullet list/menu is really
> the right thing either. Perhaps just text with more discreetly
> highlighted hrefs, and a bar of links underneath?
Yes. Links in the text and a mini navbar sound good.
> <LI> I would like to shorten it.
I think its OK.
> <LI> Have I been too subtle in pointing out the USPs inherent in
> being a virtual collective? I don\'t think we should stress
> it too much at the start or people will get the idea we are
> a teleworking commune ...
The people we really want are the people how need a virtual
collective (flexible out-sourced development resources) so
don\'t worry about going on abuot it too much.
> <LI> Otherwise I have been staring at it too long. Someone else
> have a go.
></UL>
>I also think we could <A HREF=#people>tart up</A> the people page. In
>short I\'d feel happier if the front page, and everything directly
>reachable from it, was given a more or less American presentational
>gloss.
I would be very happy going this way.
>
><H1 ALIGN=CENTER>Welcome to PanEris</H1>
> PanEris is home to a collective of web developers working together
>as a virtual corporation.
> We take on projects for clients who wish to outsource the
>development of their Internet/Intranet sites, and the information
>systems behind them. (See the <A HREF=/clients.html>showcase</A> of
>our biggest projects, or the <A HREF=/partners>repository</A> of all
>our working documents.)
Slightly misleading in that it lists our partners than the
repository(ies) per se...
> Whether we are delivering a turnkey solution or advising an
>in-house team, we always seek to understand the broader business
>context of the customer\'s requirements. Our aim is to become their
>long-term supply partner.
> All the <A HREF=/people>members of PanEris</A> are FIXME big
>hitters who have worked both in blue-chip organisations and with small
>startups. They bring a range of skills from graphic design to
>software and database engineering (and far beyond).
> The collective\'s <A HREF=/philosophy>aims</A> are very idealistic.
>For our customers, their most tangible consequences are the emphasis
>we place on openness, and the flexibility and efficiency of our
>organisation.
> The PanEris web site supports the structured
><A HREF=/quality>quality procedures</A> and transparent communications
>which lie at the heart of our working practices. It isn\'t
>flashy---and we don\'t apologise for that. We are busy people, and our
>spare time is taken up with preparing
><A HREF=/system/newbox>PanEris II</A>!
> We believe that our way of working offers higher quality for our
>customers, and a better quality of life to our members. If you would
>like to know more, we\'d be delighted to <A HREF=/contact.shtml>hear
>from you</A>.
Great
><H1><I>For the `people\' page</I></H1>
> I think we should have little blurbs about us, bite-sized and all
>on one page, since we are one of the USPs. Also a little directory of
>specialisms we can offer, since we don\'t want to give the impression
>that we are dumb web-heads, and you never know when someone might say
>"that\'s just what I need!".
By \'us\' do you mean everyone or the Core members? We could have too
many people on the people page, I think.
I like the homepage especially, though.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12424,'Mon Dec 7 10:00:09 1998','copy for messageboard',1,0,'
tim,
I am trying to set up a messageboard with a fixed list of subscribers (a la iglu), but when I post a message, the index.shtml comse back with the copy tag line set back to blank.
Is there something special going on for iglu?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12425,'Tue Dec 8 15:41:24 1998','Re: copy for messageboard',3,12424,'
Using the <em>Other Functions</em> link modify both the
messageboard template and message template to include a value
in the copy input tag.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12426,'Mon Dec 14 11:32:53 1998','rename node',1,0,'
Tim,
I have renamed the skyguard node to telematixs (customers request).
Now when I try to "modify page", I get the tantelising error:
Have you tampered with this? (paneris)
Try Again..
What have i done wrong?
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12427,'Tue Dec 15 16:36:30 1998','Re: rename node',3,12426,'
>Tim,
>I have renamed the skyguard node to telematixs (customers request).
>Now when I try to "modify page", I get the tantelising error:
>Have you tampered with this? (paneris)
>Try Again..
>What have i done wrong?
Dunno,
the problem isn\'t there any more.
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12428,'Tue Dec 15 17:06:58 1998','New node needed for Wasp',3,0,'
Tim/Will,
It seems to me that Wasp needs a new node, all
to itself, below System, as it is bigger than newbox, and
we are starting to actually contribute to its development,
so outsiders may wish to get to it.
If you agree just create it.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12429,'Mon Jan 4 10:27:31 1999','new isp',1,0,'
Tim,
I am testing out one of these free isps, how do I get paneris messageboards to know who I am?
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12430,'Thu Jan 7 14:12:25 1999','PMS registration',2,0,'
The registration on the PMS doesn\'t seem to setting a
cookie properly. Is anyone else having this problem?
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12431,'Thu Jan 7 15:04:58 1999','Re: PMS registration',1,12430,'
>The registration on the PMS doesn\'t seem to setting a
>cookie properly. Is anyone else having this problem?
yes
Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12432,'Thu Jan 7 16:29:45 1999','Re: Re: PMS registration',2,12431,'
>>The registration on the PMS doesn\'t seem to setting a
>>cookie properly. Is anyone else having this problem?
>yes
>Tim
That\'ll be because I had hardwired the cookie to expire
on 1/1/99. Now set to 31/12/99 :-)
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12433,'Fri Jan 15 13:06:09 1999','black on black',1,0,'
Tim,
Can we remove the black on black links as they have been confusing a couple of customers recently.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12434,'Fri Jan 15 13:20:00 1999','Re: black on black',3,12433,'
>Tim,
>Can we remove the black on black links as they have been confusing a couple of customers recently.
By which I assume you mean
\'can you please change PROTECTED_COLOUR to something other than black\'
have done : ff0000
I know there is no current web interface but site_ini.pl is
pretty easy to understand.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12435,'Fri Jan 15 13:22:33 1999','Re: new isp',3,12429,'
>Tim,
>I am testing out one of these free isps, how do I get paneris messageboards to know who I am?
>TimJ
Which one?
We would benefit substantially from having a free ISP (700 gbp per quarter).
If they offer fixed IPs then you can add that to KNOWN in site_ini.pl.
A more dodgy/less reliable mechanism is to put only the first 3 chunks of the IP quartet in,
but this only works a bit with variable IP addresses.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12436,'Fri Jan 15 14:18:53 1999','Re: Re: new isp',1,12435,'
>Which one?
freenet.co.uk
>We would benefit substantially from having a free ISP (700 gbp per quarter).
umm, you still have to pay for calls, and don\'t get web space. so it will only save you about £40 per quarter (the cost of dial-up, plus you need to get email services elsewhere.
>If they offer fixed IPs then you can add that to KNOWN in site_ini.pl.
>A more dodgy/less reliable mechanism is to put only the first 3 chunks of the IP quartet in,
>but this only works a bit with variable IP addresses.
I\'m not actually using them anymore as they got too busy in the evenings.
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12437,'Fri Jan 15 16:39:58 1999','Re: Re: Re: new isp',4,12436,'
>>Which one?
>freenet.co.uk
>>We would benefit substantially from having a free ISP (700 gbp per quarter).
>umm, you still have to pay for calls, and don\'t get web space. so it will only save you about £40 per quarter (the cost of dial-up, plus you need to get email services elsewhere.
Er, try freeserve.co.uk. I get 10Mb webspace and email.
In fact you get a whole email domain with as many usernames
as you can think of. What\'s more the email is powered by
Linux (and the user web pages by Silicon Graphics Unix and
their company web pages by IIS ... bizarre).
Just today I have had some BUSY tones but it\'s never
happened before. They are pretty good.
The noticeboard for paneris II will have to have cookies ...
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12438,'Wed Jan 20 4:07:58 1999','New version of htmlutil and new tags',3,0,'
I have just added three tags to site_ini.pl, but to get them to
work I had to do a little bug fixing, so please let me know if
anything breaks.
The tags are:
AmazonHome
AmazonSearch
AmazonISBN$1AmazonISBN
Which result in:
<a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect-home/thepaneriscollab"><img src="/images/AmazonHome.gif" border="0" alt="In Association with amazon.co.uk"></a>
<FORM METHOD="get" ACTION="http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/external-search"><INPUT TYPE="hidden" NAME="mode" VALUE="books"><INPUT TYPE="text" NAME="keyword" SIZE=20 VALUE=""><INPUT TYPE=hidden NAME=tag VALUE=thepaneriscollab><INPUT TYPE="image" VALUE="Search" NAME="Search" SRC="/images/AmazonHome.gif" BORDER="0" VSPACE="0" ALT="Search Amazon.co.uk" valign=bottom></FORM>
<a href="http://www.Amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521398304/thepaneriscollab">0521398304</a>
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12439,'Tue Jan 26 17:53:54 1999','Java decompilers',2,0,'
A nice article on java decompilers from july 97 is at
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-07-1997/jw-07-decompilers.html
The basic gist is that at that point the 3 decompilers reviewed
(Mocha beta1, DejaVu 1.0 and WingDis 2.06) had flaws that mean
it would take a lot of effort to get the decompiled classes
re-compilable for all but the simplest application. They are
quite good for inspecting the java code, but they do sometimes
produce semantically incorrect code.
BTW, "[The authors] goal in life is to personally drive the final stake through
the heart of the evil C programming language." :-)
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12440,'Tue Jan 26 19:53:01 1999','List of decompilers',3,12439,'
Here are the java decompilers I found on Gamelan:
<a href="http://www.wingsoft.com/wingdis.shtml">WingDis</a>
Current version is 2.15 and there is no trial download.
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~SourceTec/jasmine.htm">Jasmine</a>
- Version 1.0. Based on Mocha.
<a href="http://huizen.dds.nl/~nmi/home.html">NMI Java Code Viewer 4.50</a> - Windows app.
Based on Jad(?). Evaluation copy only produces 3kb of sourcecode. All the different
versions of this are in Gamelan (!) and they\'ve moved from mocha to jasmine to Jad.
Others I\'ve found are:
<a href="http://web.unicom.com.cy/~kpd/jad.html">Jad</a>. Apparently the best (as heard
in comp.java.lang.corba). This link apparently doesn\'t work at the minute (forever?).
Try <a href="ftp://ftp.ncnu.edu.tw/JavaDownload/DevelopmentTool/Decompiler/jad.exe">
here</a> instead. I\'ve just had a quick go and if you are used to mocha, try it!
Very impressive.
And there is a review of the field by an academic
<a href="http://164.15.161.16/ip-Links/java/codeEngineering/">
Java Code Engineering & Reverse Engineering</a>. See its section on
<a href="http://164.15.161.16/ip-Links/java/codeEngineering/decomp.html#secDecompilersToJava">
Java decompilers</a>. He has links to others (including mocha which
apparently breaks with a lot of features after 1.1.4.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12441,'Tue Jan 26 19:54:42 1999','List of decompilers',2,12439,'
Actually, that was me. Forgot to alter the name. Doh!
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12442,'Wed Jan 27 11:49:56 1999','transfering data between databases',1,0,'
Boys,
is there a standard for moving data between databases (ie csv). If so, what is it? If not, what should we do?
Will, how did you do this for Access -> Postgres. Can you let us have the code.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12443,'Wed Jan 27 13:18:09 1999','Re: transfering data between databases',4,12442,'
>Boys,
>is there a standard for moving data between databases
>(ie csv). If so, what is it? If not, what should we do?
The obvious standard, which people do in fact seem to use,
is SQL---loads of CREATE TABLE and INSERT statements.
I am sure I saw somewhere someone mention that you can
get Abcess to dump out a database as SQL, and in principle
it is trivial to get Postgres to read the SQL---just
psql <stuff.sql
There will perhaps be problems to do with data type naming,
nonstandard ways of dealing with autoincrement and so on.
Also psql seemed to me to have some sort of line or
statement or file size limit which caused it to barf on
the Iglu data, but it is probably something simple and
around-workable, and in any case may have been fixed in
6.4.
>Will, how did you do this for Access -> Postgres. Can you let us have the code.
I wrote a Perl CGI script to dump out CREATE TABLE and
INSERT commands, based on the data dictionary since there
is no metadata available via the obsolete W32ODBC driver.
The script is at
ftp://www.iglu.com/cgi-int/williamc-dump.pl
and you run it with
http://www.iglu.com/cgi-int/williamc-dump.pl
It seems to work though I vaguely remember using one in
cgi-bin which has probably been deleted ...
As I said there are some things it doesn\'t do, such as
making id fields autoincrement and so on. I had a perl
script which further processed the SQL to add postgres-
specific things to do that and create indices, but
it isn\'t so relevant for 6.4.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12444,'Fri Jan 29 18:12:24 1999','new iglu box',1,0,'
Looking at recomending a server for iglu. I have made an assumption that linux will cope with a dual pentium system. Is this correct?
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12445,'Fri Jan 29 20:02:45 1999','Re: new iglu box',4,12444,'
>Looking at recomending a server for iglu. I have made an assumption that linux will cope with a dual pentium system. Is this correct?
Yes, but you should probably make some checks on which
mobos are known to work---I don\'t know anything about
SMP on Linux but hardware incompatibility is the major
curse one runs into trying out new things ...
It is alleged that the just-released 2.2.* Linux kernel
runs much better with SMP (and supposedly more efficiently
overall) than the currently-used 2.0.*. The main thing
is that kernel calls are never split betwen processors,
so that you only use both at once for two processes
not making kernel calls or one making a kernel call and
the other just calculating or whatever. 2.2.* fixes this.
However if you want something to be trivial to install off
a CD right now you have to stick with 2.0.*, for instance
Red Hat 5.2. Whether the stock kernel that comes on the
CD is compiled for SMP I don\'t know but it\'s very easy
to rebuild a kernel any way you want so that isn\'t a problem.
(Unfortunately using 2.2.1 means getting updated versions of
a slew of core system libraries to go with it, which is
simple but not like installing off a CD.)
Distributions with 2.2.* are supposed to be arriving
soon but we are talking weeks rather than days.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12446,'Mon Feb 1 9:42:26 1999','messageboard for willr',1,0,'
Tim, cna you take a lok at this, it appears to be very broken.
Cheers
timj
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12447,'Mon Feb 1 12:46:17 1999','Re: messageboard for willr',3,12446,'
>Tim, cna you take a lok at this, it appears to be very broken.
I have \'mended\' it by hand, no suggestion as to what
went wrong.
All seems ok now.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12448,'Tue Feb 2 21:28:39 1999','Re: Security breached?',3,12302,'
Its happened again.
I think we have gotten to a point where
the lack of protection is breaking down.
Suggestions for a quick fix?
In the absence of more elegant suggestion I will only
allow modification by known IP addresses.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12449,'Tue Feb 2 21:31:02 1999','Re: Re: Security breached?',3,12448,'
>Its happened again.
The offender was http://212.228.174.193/
Can we find him?
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12450,'Tue Feb 2 23:53:09 1999','Check_access_level',3,0,'
The following functions are only available to people
with known ip addresses.
modify_page.pl
invoice.pl
letter.pl
create_page.pl
create_node.pl
upload.pl
I am worried that this may make problems for some people (WilliamC);
The ub in htmlutil.pl is:
sub check_access_level {
unless( &get_known_user) {
my @error_list = ("Your IP address ($ENV{\'REMOTE_ADDR\'}) is not recognised.",
"Due to abuse the write access to the site has had to be restricted.",
"If you want to register email me your IP address."
);
&cgi_die(@error_list);
}
}
If someone wants to make it use cookies they are very welcome.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12451,'Wed Feb 3 9:23:10 1999','Re: Check_access_level',1,12450,'
This is very depressing, and means that we need to push on with PanerisII asap.
How do we add IP addresses to the "known" list?
What is the best way of establishing someone\'s IP address?
Can we cope with nnn.nnn.nnn.* for people with dynamic addressing?
What are we going to to about the DB? Has anyone got any time to put similar protection on it?
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12452,'Wed Feb 3 12:00:05 1999','Re: Re: Check_access_level',3,12451,'
>This is very depressing, and means that we need to push on with PanerisII asap.
>How do we add IP addresses to the "known" list?
Using FTP alter the hash in site_ini.pl
>What is the best way of establishing someone\'s IP address?
http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/ipcolour.pl
>Can we cope with nnn.nnn.nnn.* for people with dynamic addressing?
Yes,
though this does not really work for big isps like demon.
>What are we going to to about the DB?
I really think we must put something on, as THEY have found out
that we are here. They may only be kids, or mearly
incredulous that we have left ourselves open, but
data is our ownly property.
>Has anyone got any time to put similar protection on it?
It wouldn\'t take long to replicate the paneris blocking,
but it isn\'t pretty.
yours
Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12453,'Wed Feb 3 13:58:00 1999','Re: Re: Re: Check_access_level',2,12452,'
>>What are we going to to about the DB?
>I really think we must put something on, as THEY have found out
>that we are here. They may only be kids, or mearly
>incredulous that we have left ourselves open, but
>data is our ownly property.
>>Has anyone got any time to put similar protection on it?
>It wouldn\'t take long to replicate the paneris blocking,
>but it isn\'t pretty.
>yours
>Tim
As a stop gap surely we just need to copy &check_access_level
into pm_edit.pl, no?
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12454,'Wed Feb 3 14:00:11 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Check_access_level',3,12453,'
>As a stop gap surely we just need to copy &check_access_level
>into pm_edit.pl, no?
Yes,
is that you volunteering?
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12455,'Wed Feb 3 14:44:58 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Check_access_level',2,12454,'
>>As a stop gap surely we just need to copy &check_access_level
>>into pm_edit.pl, no?
>Yes,
>is that you volunteering?
>TimP
Well, I was going to do, but I\'ve been beaten to it by TimP.
You now have to have an IP address listed in pm_check_access.pl
to use pm_amend.pl (i.e. update the database).
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12456,'Tue Feb 9 16:27:46 1999','pink links',1,0,'
Tim,
My links have all gone pink, how do I change this?
TimJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12457,'Wed Feb 10 11:24:58 1999','Re: pink links',3,12456,'
>Tim,
>My links have all gone pink, how do I change this?
In site_ini.pl change the line:
$STYLE{\'TimJ\'} = \'a {color:#FFAAAA; text-decoration:none;}\';
tim ;)
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12458,'Fri Feb 12 20:14:25 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Check_access_level',3,12455,'
>>>As a stop gap surely we just need to copy &check_access_level
>>>into pm_edit.pl, no?
>>Yes,
>>is that you volunteering?
>>TimP
>Well, I was going to do, but I\'ve been beaten to it by TimP.
>You now have to have an IP address listed in pm_check_access.pl
>to use pm_amend.pl (i.e. update the database).
>Myles
I am going on holiday and I know that the fixed IP thing is giving
ColinR problems.
I know everyone is busy but can anyone get it done?
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12459,'Mon Feb 22 16:38:11 1999','Change of e-mail addresses',2,0,'
Dear Graham,
To confirm our telephone conversation:
Could you please forward any e-mail for
mylesc@i-way.co.uk
(and any other variants that would end up in my I-Way
postbox) to
mylesc@paneris.org
Thanks very much in advance,
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12460,'Wed Feb 24 17:39:44 1999','Configure.pl working again - attn ColinR',3,0,'
Dear all,
The script configure.pl, after a long absence, is back on line.
It is an aweful thing, looking back on it, and won\'t really be relevant to PanerisII and poses a real possibility of people breaking the site, but at least it doesn\'t
just give a server error now.
It does not allow you to enter new data, so all you can really do is change your email address and the site colours.
Colin or anyone else:
Do you fancy playing with the site colours?
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12461,'Mon Mar 1 15:08:33 1999','New colours',2,0,'
TimP,
I see we have new link colours for some of the pages.
Unfortunately, the contents frame on the left hand side
of each directory is one of these. It is unfortunate
because password protected nodes have a red background,
making them unreadable (again).
Could we please change this?
Myles
PS I\'ve looked in site.ini but it\'s obviously (!) not
here I have to change it. Thanks.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12462,'Tue Mar 2 1:27:53 1999','Re: New colours',3,12461,'
>TimP,
>I see we have new link colours for some of the pages.
>Unfortunately, the contents frame on the left hand side
>of each directory is one of these. It is unfortunate
>because password protected nodes have a red background,
>making them unreadable (again).
>Could we please change this?
>Myles
>PS I\'ve looked in site.ini but it\'s obviously (!) not
>here I have to change it. Thanks.
site_ini.pl is all there is on the web, eric6 is an inclusive archive :)
You can change it using configure.pl but you do have to guess that \'PRETECTED COLOUR\' is what you want to change.
The annoying thing is that the link colour change came about through
changing the MOTION_COLOUR to a light blue.
Anyway, I have changed it, but whether it is an improvement I will let you judge.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12463,'Tue Mar 2 10:07:30 1999','Re: Re: New colours',1,12462,'
>Anyway, I have changed it, but whether it is an improvement I will let you judge.
thumbs up from me
timJ
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12464,'Fri Mar 5 9:21:01 1999','see figure 1',3,0,'
See <a href=http://spiffy.cso.uiuc.edu/~kline/Stuff/see-figure-1.html>figure 1</a>.
love
Tim
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12465,'Fri Mar 5 12:51:31 1999','Floating functions',3,0,'
Hi all,
I have made a few alterations:
1. Create_page now works again
2. The top frame no longer has \'other functions\' on it.
To get to other functions you have to press the floating P/E image.
3. The DOCTYPE now uses HTML 4.0 Transitional, so it is possible to validate them (using update beta on modify).
4. Only pages which have recently been modified will have the floating button, so if you want it you must modify your page.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12466,'Fri Mar 19 16:24:46 1999','Help, it think\'s I\'m JohnR ...',4,0,'
Paneris thinks I\'m JohnR ---
we are going to get a lot of this if freeserve goes
on being popular ...
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12467,'Thu Mar 25 20:05:49 1999','Re: Help, it think\'s I\'m JohnR ...',3,12466,'
>Paneris thinks I\'m JohnR ---
>we are going to get a lot of this if freeserve goes
>on being popular ...
Obviously this is only a \'transitional\' problem, but do
you want something done about it now?
As we haven\'t heard from JohnR since he filled out his person
page I am wondering if he needs the slot :|
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12468,'Thu Mar 25 20:07:03 1999','Page modification modified',3,0,'
Now it says which of the known users updated a page last.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12469,'Thu Mar 25 20:28:37 1999','Re: Re: Help, it think\'s I\'m JohnR ...',34,12467,'
>>Paneris thinks I\'m JohnR ---
>>we are going to get a lot of this if freeserve goes
>>on being popular ...
>
>Obviously this is only a \'transitional\' problem, but do
>you want something done about it now?
>As we haven\'t heard from JohnR since he filled out his person
>page I am wondering if he needs the slot :|
>yours
>timP
If you are talking about ip addresses for identification then I can help. I have dumped Freeserve for a new ISP so my new IP addrss (at this moment) is 195.92.199.243. Could I ask you to set this up so that I can get in.
I think you ought to have password protection to avoid this sort of thing happening again.
Finally sorry for not being in touch, I have been working in Dublin. I\'ll be in touch soon, I plan to review your internal procedures documentation for starters!
John Royle
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12470,'Thu Mar 25 20:33:13 1999','Re: Floating functions',34,12465,'
>Hi all,
>I have made a few alterations:
>1. Create_page now works again
>2. The top frame no longer has \'other functions\' on it.
> To get to other functions you have to press the floating P/E image.
>3. The DOCTYPE now uses HTML 4.0 Transitional, so it is possible to validate them (using update beta on modify).
>4. Only pages which have recently been modified will have the floating button, so if you want it you must modify your page.
Tim,
I don\'t think I am on the notification list when you send/post to paneris. Can you check please>
JohnR
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12471,'Fri Mar 26 2:07:39 1999','Re: Re: Re: Help, it think\'s I\'m JohnR ...',3,12469,'
>>>Paneris thinks I\'m JohnR ---
>>>we are going to get a lot of this if freeserve goes
>>>on being popular ...
>>
>>Obviously this is only a \'transitional\' problem, but do
>>you want something done about it now?
>>As we haven\'t heard from JohnR since he filled out his person
>>page I am wondering if he needs the slot :|
>>yours
>>timP
>If you are talking about ip addresses for identification then I can help. I have dumped Freeserve for a new ISP so my new IP addrss (at this moment) is 195.92.199.243. Could I ask you to set this up so that I can get in.
Done.
You should be alright with any IP starting with 195.92.199
(Don\'t know how dynamic dynamic IP allocation is)
>I think you ought to have password protection to avoid this sort of thing happening again.
We hope to build a full user handling suite pretty soon.
>Finally sorry for not being in touch, I have been working in Dublin.
Nice to hear from you again.
>I\'ll be in touch soon, I plan to review your internal procedures documentation for starters!
That would be good, I am currently trying to use them
for http://www.paneris.co.uk/partners/airflow/PFE/ and so
am rubbing some of the edges off them.
yours
TimP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12472,'Fri Mar 26 2:24:25 1999','Re: Re: Floating functions',3,12470,'
John,
>I don\'t think I am on the notification list when you send/post to paneris. Can you check please
Well you are on the possible circulation for all new messages,
from when you joined, but the default circulation, which is
overridden if any other addressee or copy is entered, is to
an <a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/aliases.htm>email alias</a> currently, kindly, maintained by I-way,
so it isn\'t changed it much.
On the whole the \'peripheral\' members of paneris do not want
15-50 messages per day about projects that they are not involved in.
TimJ is currently implementing a messageboard system which will enable you
to subscribe to a particular node and to reply by email to the board.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12473,'Mon Mar 29 13:32:14 1999','Just a test',3,0,'
test
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12474,'Mon Mar 29 13:47:00 1999','Message board circulations',3,0,'
Hi all,
William has set up a set of aliases on ganesh:
>The lists are paneris@paneris.org, lurker@paneris.org,
> outcaa@paneris.org, programmers@paneris.org and >projects@paneris.org.
The exact details of the circulation are given at http://www.paneris.co.uk/people/aliases.htm
I have updated site_ini.pl, so NEW messages will use the
new alias paneris@paneris.org, but old message boards will,
I am afraid, maintain the old circulation.
On a related topic, I received the following from Catalyst,
in response to the W Gates news:
>Tim
>Please alter your site to prevent this type of junkmail >from being sent
>to us.
>Regards,
>Richard
I have altered the email for Catalyst, so that they can continue to have a registerd IP without recieving \'junk\'.
Catalyst are an important customer to me, so I do not wish to cause offense.
yours
timP
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12475,'Tue Apr 13 9:00:00 1999','anyone know who Mako is?',1,0,'
yesterday hkuhk@hoop.co.uk was signed up for a yahoo mail account (id dkfishcakepiss). didn\'t think much of it, so just cancelled it.
Today, I got the following email (sent to paneris@i-way.co.uk):
Keep it comin we all need access to more info Happy fishin Mako
I think it is safe to assume that Mako set up the original yahoo account.
anyone know who he is?
timj
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12476,'Tue Apr 13 12:29:15 1999','Re: anyone know who Mako is?',2,12475,'
>yesterday hkuhk@hoop.co.uk was signed up for a yahoo mail account (id dkfishcakepiss). didn\'t think much of it, so just cancelled it.
>Today, I got the following email (sent to paneris@i-way.co.uk):
>Keep it comin we all need access to more info Happy fishin Mako
>I think it is safe to assume that Mako set up the original yahoo account.
>anyone know who he is?
>timj
My computer at RAL (suggested by BFG Gordon, my old boss) was called
Mako. This could be a coincidence, or it might not. I suspect a certain
German friend who has just passed his viva. I\'ll find out.
Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12477,'Fri Jul 16 12:42:50 1999','Re: List of decompilers',122,12440,'Posted to the old system by khurram (khuslic@brain.net.pk)
>Here are the java decompilers I found on Gamelan:
><a href="http://www.wingsoft.com/wingdis.shtml">WingDis</a>
>Current version is 2.15 and there is no trial download.
><a href="http://members.tripod.com/~SourceTec/jasmine.htm">Jasmine</a>
>- Version 1.0. Based on Mocha.
><a href="http://huizen.dds.nl/~nmi/home.html">NMI Java Code Viewer 4.50</a> - Windows app.
>Based on Jad(?). Evaluation copy only produces 3kb of sourcecode. All the different
>versions of this are in Gamelan (!) and they\'ve moved from mocha to jasmine to Jad.
>Others I\'ve found are:
><a href="http://web.unicom.com.cy/~kpd/jad.html">Jad</a>. Apparently the best (as heard
>in comp.java.lang.corba). This link apparently doesn\'t work at the minute (forever?).
>Try <a href="ftp://ftp.ncnu.edu.tw/JavaDownload/DevelopmentTool/Decompiler/jad.exe">
>here</a> instead. I\'ve just had a quick go and if you are used to mocha, try it!
>Very impressive.
>And there is a review of the field by an academic
><a href="http://164.15.161.16/ip-Links/java/codeEngineering/">
>Java Code Engineering & Reverse Engineering</a>. See its section on
><a href="http://164.15.161.16/ip-Links/java/codeEngineering/decomp.html#secDecompilersToJava">
>Java decompilers</a>. He has links to others (including mocha which
>apparently breaks with a lot of features after 1.1.4.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12478,'Fri Sep 10 13:22:49 1999','Re: Re: C++, decompilers',122,12477,'Posted to the old system by nano (boyas@mx4.redestb.es)
>>Here are the java decompilers I found on Gamelan:
>><a href="http://www.wingsoft.com/wingdis.shtml">WingDis</a>
>>Current version is 2.15 and there is no trial download.
>><a href="http://members.tripod.com/~SourceTec/jasmine.htm">Jasmine</a>
>>- Version 1.0. Based on Mocha.
>><a href="http://huizen.dds.nl/~nmi/home.html">NMI Java Code Viewer 4.50</a> - Windows app.
>>Based on Jad(?). Evaluation copy only produces 3kb of sourcecode. All the different
>>versions of this are in Gamelan (!) and they\'ve moved from mocha to jasmine to Jad.
>>Others I\'ve found are:
>><a href="http://web.unicom.com.cy/~kpd/jad.html">Jad</a>. Apparently the best (as heard
>>in comp.java.lang.corba). This link apparently doesn\'t work at the minute (forever?).
>>Try <a href="ftp://ftp.ncnu.edu.tw/JavaDownload/DevelopmentTool/Decompiler/jad.exe">
>>here</a> instead. I\'ve just had a quick go and if you are used to mocha, try it!
>>Very impressive.
>>And there is a review of the field by an academic
>><a href="http://164.15.161.16/ip-Links/java/codeEngineering/">
>>Java Code Engineering & Reverse Engineering</a>. See its section on
>><a href="http://164.15.161.16/ip-Links/java/codeEngineering/decomp.html#secDecompilersToJava">
>>Java decompilers</a>. He has links to others (including mocha which
>>apparently breaks with a lot of features after 1.1.4.
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12479,'Sun Sep 19 9:51:29 1999','Re: List of decompilers',122,12441,'Posted to the old system by khu (malikkhurram@yahoo.com)
>Actually, that was me. Forgot to alter the name. Doh!
>Myles
','f','',157,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
158,'messageboard','Paneris messageboard List',8158,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/messageboard/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/messageboard/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12480,'Mon Mar 22 18:08:03 1999','new messageboards',1,0,'
please check out this node for a datadefinition and api for new messageboard system.
cheers
timj
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12481,'Mon Mar 22 20:11:14 1999','Re: new messageboards',4,12480,'
The interface is nice and simple, but I don\'t understand
the semantics of getNextThread (and it certainly might
be inconvenient in a threaded program (geddit???)).
Also the MessageThread object doesn\'t seem to be able to
tell you the tree structure of the thread at all.
If it was me I would have object explicitly representing
lists of messages (though not necessarily all actually
stored statically in a Vector).
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12482,'Mon Mar 22 20:38:09 1999','Re: Re: new messageboards',4,12481,'
>If it was me I would have object explicitly representing
>lists of messages (though not necessarily all actually
>stored statically in a Vector).
Sorry, meant to say, in the Iglu messageboard code this
made it nice and easy to handle bulletin boards, thread
displays and search results in a uniform way. I think
the idea was a general mapping from search criteria
(which could be just "board=..." or "ancestor=...")
to message list, or something. (Can\'t really remember.)
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12483,'Mon Mar 22 21:50:47 1999','Re: Re: Re: new messageboards',1,12482,'
>The interface is nice and simple, but I don\'t understand
>the semantics of getNextThread
it just flattens the tree.
>(and it certainly might
>be inconvenient in a threaded program (geddit???)).
>Also the MessageThread object doesn\'t seem to be able to
>tell you the tree structure of the thread at all.
no, chippy thought exactly the same.
my thinking was that we don\'t actually need (or want) a tree strucure passed to our template, it\'s easier to introspect a vector of messages. this vector (probably a paneris.util.multipleresultset) will be built by our handler - somethinglike:
select id from messages where parent=0 and messageboard=1
m = new message(id);
vector.add(m)
while (m = getNextThread(m)) {
vector.add(m)
}
this woudl have been clearer if i had removed the unnecessary
message.getNext() and
message.getPrevious()
sorry.
also i should have done at least a little documentation on the handlers.
sorry.
i am probably falling into the trap of putting too much code into the handlers, but i guess it will not be to difficult to write a messageboardpage.class.
>>If it was me I would have object explicitly representing
>>lists of messages (though not necessarily all actually
>>stored statically in a Vector).
>Sorry, meant to say, in the Iglu messageboard code this
>made it nice and easy to handle bulletin boards, thread
>displays and search results in a uniform way. I think
>the idea was a general mapping from search criteria
>(which could be just "board=..." or "ancestor=...")
>to message list, or something. (Can\'t really remember.)
i just figured that there was no point in creating a large datastrucure when you may only be interested in a small amount of it (at times the iglu paneris mesageboard had over 1000 posts on it).
thanks for the feedback, by the end of the millenium, i intend to be a HOOP.
timj
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12484,'Mon Mar 22 22:56:24 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: new messageboards',4,12483,'
I don\'t really understand what you are proposing---
will be interested to take another look when it\'s
matured a bit. (There are some things I don\'t like
the sound of---a flattened tree is not good enough
e.g. for threaded presentation; and introspection is
surely meant to be a last resort---and I explicitly
*didn\'t* suggest storing the whole results set. But
I\'m sure I\'ll have an opportunity to vent my
prejudices on the final version!)
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12485,'Tue Mar 23 7:42:38 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: new messageboards',1,12484,'
>I don\'t really understand what you are proposing---
>will be interested to take another look when it\'s
>matured a bit.
good plan.
> (There are some things I don\'t like
>the sound of---a flattened tree is not good enough
>e.g. for threaded presentation;
why not, i figure that to present a threaded page all you need are the threads and their \'offset\'
>and introspection is
>surely meant to be a last resort
webmacro intorspects when processing the templates
---and I explicitly
>*didn\'t* suggest storing the whole results set. But
>I\'m sure I\'ll have an opportunity to vent my
>prejudices on the final version!)
yes, please do that. I intend to make at least some progress today.
timj
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12486,'Tue Mar 23 11:13:26 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: new messageboards',4,12485,'
>why not, i figure that to present a threaded page all you need are the threads and their \'offset\'
I don\'t see where the offset comes from, that\'s all.
And if you want to do, for example, a subtree expansion/
collapsing interface, you are going to be using the msgs
at least "as if" they were in a tree ...
>webmacro intorspects when processing the templates
Yes, it has to because it is effectively calling compiled
Java from an uncompiled template. Introspection is the
only way of crossing from the Source World to the
Other Side.
Otherwise use of introspection makes things less explicit,
less efficient, less well structured, less safe, and so
on and so on ...
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12487,'Thu Mar 25 15:54:08 1999','Re: new messageboards',4,12480,'
I happened to see an Enumeration today and realised that
I ought to have mentioned it to you as the canonical way
in Java of listing, for example, the threads on a board
or the messages in a thread (or in a search hitlist ...)
or whatever. (NB there is absolutely no obligation to
store all the enumerated elements at once at any point in
time.)
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12488,'Thu Mar 25 15:58:55 1999','Re: new messageboards',4,12480,'
Incidentally I notice that you talk about varchars in
the data field list.
I think postgresql encourages you to use a "text" type
which is an efficiently supported arbitrary length
string.
However of course it\'s not SQL92 compliant ...
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12489,'Thu Mar 25 16:45:53 1999','Re: Re: new messageboards',1,12488,'
>Incidentally I notice that you talk about varchars in
>the data field list.
>I think postgresql encourages you to use a "text" type
>which is an efficiently supported arbitrary length
>string.
>However of course it\'s not SQL92 compliant ...
good plan, i hadn\'t realised it was \'efficient\'. i don\'t have a problem not being SQL92 complient, as our java code is never concerned with sql field types (hidden bennefit of a datadictionary), so any port (eg to mysql) that is required will simply mean changing our "createtable.sql" scripts which is trivial.
timj
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12490,'Thu Mar 25 17:26:20 1999','Re: Re: new messageboards',1,12487,'
>I happened to see an Enumeration today and realised that
>I ought to have mentioned it to you as the canonical way
>in Java of listing, for example, the threads on a board
>or the messages in a thread (or in a search hitlist ...)
>or whatever. (NB there is absolutely no obligation to
>store all the enumerated elements at once at any point in
>time.)
yep, MessageThread.java should implement Enumeration and have Stack as a property. The handler will then enumerate away building a vector of say 50 messages to pass to the template.
timj
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12491,'Mon May 17 14:38:02 1999','receiving messageboard posts by e-mail',2,0,'
All,
I have done the following to allow ganesh to process incoming mail for messageboards:
1) In linuxconf (mail:basic) I added messageboards.paneris.org as an alias for our system
2) In linuxconf (mail:complex (user) routing) I set up
a rule to redirect @messageboards.paneris.org to messageboards (a new user on ganesh)
3) in /etc/aliases I set up an alias for messageboards
which pipes the mail to a script (inst/paneris/org/messageboards/receivemail/postmessage.sh)
This starts up a java application, which is currently tester
(in the recievemail dir)
At present this merely copies the mail and some extra info into
/usr/local/apache/log/mboard.log but we should replace tester.java with our own messageboard class
Myles
','f','',158,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
159,'newbox','Paneris newbox List',8159,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/newbox/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/newbox/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12492,'Sat Nov 7 17:58:00 1998','rooije hoed',4,0,'
I\'m going to post Red Hat 5.2 to Hurst St on three Zip
disks and three floppies. I suspect from personal
experience with RH and what one hears from others that
RH is actually the least good distribution out of it,
SuSE and Debian but it is probably the one most English-
speaking PHBs have heard of, which may matter at some
point.
You will have to look at
http://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/Mirrors/ftp.redhat.com/redhat/redhat-5.2/i386/doc/rhmanual/manual/index.htm
for the installation guide. I hope the first disk
(marked `core\') will be sufficient---I had to be a bit
brutal to get it in below 100Mb. Otherwise everything
is there except TeX, which I can\'t see you wanting under
any circumstances, and Slovenian, etc., documentation.
Tips:
If you want to keep Windoze (I don\'t think we do especially?)
use fips.exe, which you will find at
http://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/Mirrors/ftp.redhat.com/redhat/redhat-5.2/i386/dosutils/
to shrink the Windows partition down to 400Mb, then
proceed.
Connect the Zip drive and put the `core\' disk in the
drive (actually put it in, since the Linux driver on the
`boot\' floppy won\'t detect it otherwise). Boot off the
`boot\' floppy. Answer questions (use the guide where
necessary). Choose `hard disk\' installation method
when prompted. Insert `supplementary\' floppy. Say
you DO have SCSI devices---the parallel port Zip is
considered SCSI. Choose the Zip driver from the big
list of SCSI drivers (it\'s called Iomega something I
think, otherwise Zip or PPA).
Don\'t try and install X---none of the packages are
on the first disk.
Just let it complain about missing packages. I think
everything critical should be on the first disk.
If there is a problem, copy the RedHat trees from each
floppy onto a partition (such as the shrunk Windows
one) and let the floppies find the packages there.
The third floppy is a "rescue" disk. I have never used
it but it is a tiny Linux system which is useful if you
ever do something silly so that it won\'t boot off the
hard drive.
On the second Zip disk is all the stuff which was (a)
big and seemed (b) irrelevant for our immediate purposes.
On the third is everything beginning X or x, plus the
Linux port of JDK 1.1.7. I forgot to put kaffe on but
it probably ships with RedHat anyway.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12493,'Sun Nov 8 16:01:21 1998','new postgres',4,0,'
Postgres 6.4 is out, and finally supports SERIAL (autoincrement)
without making you jump through hoops. Also has a PL
(procedural language) which would let one push a lot of
logic onto the backend and therefore probably make it
more efficient, though the problem with this is that they
are not at all standard so you lose portability :(.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12494,'Mon Nov 9 9:17:14 1998','Re: rooije hoed',1,12492,'
Why don\'t we but 5.2 on CD. We are going to do a number of installs and i would simply feel more confident (and feel it would be quicked) to do a standard install (although I have complete faith in will delivering working custom install disks.)
It\'s only $49.95 (is there is UK distributor, or should we just order from redhat.com?)
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12495,'Mon Nov 9 9:21:01 1998','Re: new postgres',1,12493,'
>Postgres 6.4 is out, and finally supports SERIAL (autoincrement)
>without making you jump through hoops. Also has a PL
>(procedural language) which would let one push a lot of
>logic onto the backend and therefore probably make it
>more efficient, though the problem with this is that they
>are not at all standard so you lose portability :(.
my experience with plSQL (oracle) wasn\'t great, although it was nice for testing. The portability argument is a strong one.
I think it is a bad idea to move code into Postgres.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12496,'Mon Nov 9 11:33:12 1998','buying linux',1,0,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by WilliamC
> It\'s only $49.95 (is there is UK distributor, or should we just
> order from redhat.com?)
Probably best to get it from a UK distributor, otherwise will wait
weeks!
The idea of posting the Zips to Chippy was that he will otherwise
never get round to it ... :)
Installing off Zips has worked fine for me several times and once for
Chippy , and is not toooo slow, though I must admit the CD install is
positively nippy.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12497,'Mon Nov 9 11:33:54 1998','Re: Re: new postgres',1,12495,'Posted on behalf of TimJ by WilliamC
> I think it is a bad idea to move code into Postgres.
I would love to use it for Paneris to see how well it stands up.
We can\'t deploy it on customer sites, at least not on big busy ones,
because we don\'t know how bulletproof it is, and of course we can\'t
know that until we have deployed it :(.
I did a trawl of the news archives last night and wrote to some people
asking for their experiences. Two had evidently been bitten badly by
MS SQL Server and said they would rather use Postgresql as being more
stable---I await their emails with interest. But even if we had good
evidence that it works "as well as" SQL server that still wouldn\'t do.
I don\'t know what Oracle costs but ADABAS seems to cost hundreds
rather than thousands of dollars and Solid looks quite affordable.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12498,'Mon Nov 9 11:35:27 1998','Re: Re: Re: new postgres',1,12497,'
>> I think it is a bad idea to move code into Postgres.
>I would love to use it for Paneris to see how well it stands up.
Ahh, you missunderstand (i think), I am very happy using Postgres, but not plPostgres.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12499,'Mon Nov 9 12:07:18 1998','Re: buying linux',1,12496,'
>> It\'s only $49.95 (is there is UK distributor, or should we just
>> order from redhat.com?)
>Probably best to get it from a UK distributor, otherwise will wait
>weeks!
OK, paneris is going to buy this today:
Available from 9th November.
This is the full Red Hat 5.2 distribution. You get 3 CDs (2 CDs in the Alpha and SPARC versions), a boot floppy, a 300 page installation manual, 90 days of e-mail installation support and a bumper sticker!. For Intel platforms, in addition to all the software in the GPL version, there are two items of commercial software included:
BRU2000 backup utility
RealAudio client and server
The price is £42 for the Intel version and £45 for the Alpha and SPARC versions.
from http://www.polo.demon.co.uk
you have until 3pm to comment :) (so that we get it delivered tomorrow)
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12500,'Mon Nov 9 12:17:35 1998','Re: Re: buying linux',1,12499,'
Just caught myself saying this to jenny:
"I have no objection to buying software as long as it is free."
:)
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12501,'Mon Nov 9 13:49:30 1998','Re: Re: buying linux',2,12499,'
>>> It\'s only $49.95 (is there is UK distributor, or should we just
>>> order from redhat.com?)
>>Probably best to get it from a UK distributor, otherwise will wait
>>weeks!
>OK, paneris is going to buy this today:
>Available from 9th November.
>This is the full Red Hat 5.2 distribution. You get 3 CDs (2 CDs in the Alpha and SPARC versions), a boot floppy, a 300 page installation manual, 90 days of e-mail installation support and a bumper sticker!. For Intel platforms, in addition to all the software in the GPL version, there are two items of commercial software included:
>BRU2000 backup utility
>RealAudio client and server
>The price is £42 for the Intel version and £45 for the Alpha and SPARC versions.
Sounds great to me. Let\'s do it.
Myles
>from http://www.polo.demon.co.uk
>you have until 3pm to comment :) (so that we get it delivered tomorrow)
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12502,'Mon Nov 9 15:33:19 1998','Re: Re: Re: buying linux',1,12501,'
>Sounds great to me. Let\'s do it.
done, you should have it tomowwow
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12503,'Tue Nov 10 12:54:40 1998','feedback from postgres user 1',4,12497,'
Hi William. First, I don\'t consider this spam. I\'m always happy to
assist a fellow hacker.
I work as a webmaster for a company called Internet Security Systems
(http://www.iss.net). We are currently using Postgres for all of our
database work on our web site. We were using mSQL but it was having
problems with memory leaks so that\'s why we looked into alternatives.
Postgres was recommended by our sysadmin. Since we are Linux fans, the
fact that Postgres was shipping with Red Hat and it was open source meant
a lot to us. I had also heard good things about Postgres from various
Linux/DB people.
Since that time I\'ve talked to more people about databases and have a
better idea of what is out there. No one seems to complain about
Postgres. However, I keep hearing that it\'s a bit slow.
One database that I hear about constantly is MySQL. No one that I have
met has had any complaints about unstability. Not only that, but the
first thing I usualy do hear about it is that it\'s fast. I know that
Slashdot (http://slashdot.org) uses it and they probably get more hits
than we do at ISS.
I asked our web application programmer what he thought about Postgres
since he works with it a lot closer than I do as well as has more
experience (Oracle DBA). He said he thinks Postgres is rocks solid and
actually thinks it\'s a better database for web sites than something like
Oracle since it\'s small and object-oriented.
I hoped that helped you out. Definitly take a look at MySQL, too. I keep
hearing great things about it. Out of curiosity, what kind of development
are you doing/going to do? Have you seen PHP (http://www.php.net)?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12504,'Tue Nov 10 12:56:37 1998','feedback from postgres user 2',4,12497,'
(was long, excerpting:)
I personally have been using PostgreSQL for over a year now without any
data loss, or even a single server crash. However, my database is only
contains a couple thousand records and three indexes. So my set up is
not likely to impress anyone. However, there are plenty of people using
PG for very serious projects and there is at least one project with over
a million records in one single table.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12505,'Tue Nov 10 13:09:16 1998','IMPORTANT - Keep Windows 98?',2,0,'
Shall I get rid of Windows 98 on the new box? Me and
TimP don\'t see any reason. Anyone thing we should keep
it?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12506,'Tue Nov 10 13:26:15 1998','Re: IMPORTANT - Keep Windows 98?',1,12505,'
>Shall I get rid of Windows 98 on the new box? Me and
>TimP don\'t see any reason. Anyone thing we should keep
>it?
deffinitely zap it
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12507,'Tue Nov 10 13:29:22 1998','Re: IMPORTANT - Keep Windows 98?',4,12505,'
>Shall I get rid of Windows 98 on the new box? Me and
>TimP don\'t see any reason. Anyone thing we should keep
>it?
I was going to say keep it if there is room ...
It makes it slightly easier to run DOS programs---
e.g. GWBASIC :)---undef dosemu if you have a genuine MS
setup. Similarly wine (the Windows emulator).
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12508,'Tue Nov 10 13:44:15 1998','Summary of quick investigation',4,12497,'
There are at least three stories in the PostgreSQL
mailing list archives of server crashes, including
one for the most recent version 6.4---achieved
using VIEWs, which seem to be acknowledged to be the
newest and least stable thing.
(NB by server crash I mean you have to restart
postgres, not the whole machine---it\'s easy to
arrange for this to happen automatically on
Unix.)
No reports of actual data loss though one person
did have to VACUUM (tidy) their database before
it would let them access it.
There seem to be a surprising number of big university
sites using it. The complaint that appears on the
mailing list seems to be that it doesn\'t support
replication.
They also list a fair number of commercial sites using
it.
The bottom line is that it isn\'t perfect but that
with the exception of VIEWs, all its features have
been hammered pretty hard and haven\'t caused any
reported disasters.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12509,'Tue Nov 10 14:12:28 1998','Re: Re: IMPORTANT - Keep Windows 98?',1,12507,'
>>Shall I get rid of Windows 98 on the new box? Me and
>>TimP don\'t see any reason. Anyone thing we should keep
>>it?
>I was going to say keep it if there is room ...
>It makes it slightly easier to run DOS programs---
>e.g. GWBASIC :)---undef dosemu if you have a genuine MS
>setup. Similarly wine (the Windows emulator).
umm, i just like simplicity. i don\'t think we will be messing arround with emulators or gwbasic.
i still vote get rid of it
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12510,'Tue Nov 10 14:50:36 1998','PHP',1,0,'
Will (and all)
Had a look at www.php.net today, and am interested but not convinced by what they are doing. On the surface it looks very much like M$ .asp pages (which suck).
What are your thoughts on PHP?
They do appear to have momentum, and a paneris system would bennefit (in terms of profile) from being part of the community.
Can PHP do what the iglu templates can?
We need to decide PHP or templates.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12511,'Tue Nov 10 15:11:20 1998','Re: Re: Re: IMPORTANT - Keep Windows 98?',2,12509,'
>>>Shall I get rid of Windows 98 on the new box? Me and
>>>TimP don\'t see any reason. Anyone thing we should keep
>>>it?
>>I was going to say keep it if there is room ...
>>It makes it slightly easier to run DOS programs---
>>e.g. GWBASIC :)---undef dosemu if you have a genuine MS
>>setup. Similarly wine (the Windows emulator).
>umm, i just like simplicity. i don\'t think we will be messing arround with emulators or gwbasic.
>i still vote get rid of it
Sorry, Will. Outvoted. We might live to regret it, but that\'s
life!
','f','',159,0,0);
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12512,'Wed Nov 11 17:06:07 1998','Alive',2,0,'
I set up the newbox yesterday using the "server" configuration
supplied by RedHat. I had some problems using an ISA network
card, solved by using another one!
At 00:05 this morning I got:
"newbox login:"
which, I reckon, means that newbox (PanerisII/whatever) has
the same birthday as me!
So, what are we going to do now? The answer is to install
Paneris/PMS and setup Postgresql, but we want to do it as
a project. So, what next?
','f','',159,0,0);
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12513,'Thu Nov 12 11:37:35 1998','Re: Alive',1,12512,'
>"newbox login:"
>which, I reckon, means that newbox (PanerisII/whatever) has
>the same birthday as me!
cool. happy birthday.
>So, what are we going to do now? The answer is to install
>Paneris/PMS and setup Postgresql, but we want to do it as
>a project. So, what next?
Someone needs to write a requirements doc. Volenteers? I can\'t start until monday, but would be happy to do it.
We also need to get it onine somewhere. Any progress by timp?
','f','',159,0,0);
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12514,'Fri Nov 13 8:23:12 1998','Re: PHP',4,12510,'
Yes, it looked to me as if it\'s aimed at a slightly
different job from what we want. Unless we can find
something out there which (a) gives a veneer of
common sense over SQL (b) separates the code from
the HTML (c) will turn into business objects where
necessary, then I think there is a benefit in
rolling our own.
What is web objects?
','f','',159,0,0);
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12515,'Fri Nov 13 11:55:34 1998','Re: Alive',4,12512,'
wishlist:
Perl
Presumably it has 5.004, we should probably install 5.005
just to keep up.
Postgresql
It comes with the old version,
we should probably install the new version.
Apache
It comes with it, do we care which version?
You can set this up with linuxconf, or its
peasy to zap its config files.
INN (news server)
It comes with it, do we care which version?
I have never tried to set this up and it is
reputedly a little opaque.
sendmail (mail server)
It comes with it, we don\'t care which version,
since if we did we would be using smail or qmail
anyway :). This is very easy to configure using
linuxconf, with one proviso which doesn\'t matter if
it\'s only being used from remotely (details on
request).
procmail (incoming mail processor)
This is simple but poorly documented unless things have
changed. Maybe there is something better on the RedHat
CD. Otherwise it\'s possible to make sendmail do fancy
things directly by defining new pseudo-mail-delivery
commands.
ftp server is presumably up already
Paneris, which should work trivially since it is currently
running on BSD.
samba server (?)
It comes with it.
CVS server
It comes with it.
I truly cannot think of anything else we could possibly
want for the moment. Probably working out how all those
things are used will keep Chippy happy for a few days!
NB don\'t forget I know quite a lot about running a simple
Linux setup, so can answer questions if they arise.
One tip:
When you install new non-RPM packages from source,
in other words compiling them from the plain sources,
they generally by default put themselves spread over
/usr/local/bin, /usr/local/lib, etc.
The best policy, however, is to keep source packages
and source trees in a definite place, and installed
binaries/libs in a definite place so that you know
what is there, can delete them and maintain several
versions, and so on.
So I put source packages in /usr/local/packages/dist
(e.g. /usr/local/packages/dist/perl5.005_3/...)
and tell them to install themselves in /usr/local/packages/inst,
(e.g. /usr/local/packages/inst/perl5.005_3/...).
You then have to go to /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/lib,
etc., and make symbolic links to all the files in
/usr/local/packages/inst/perl5.005_3/bin
and .../lib and so on,
but you can do that semiautomatically with simple
shell commands,
and I find it saves a lot of bother. For instance
to uninstall perl5.005, knowing that you won\'t
mess anything else up, it is sufficient to
rm -rf /usr/local/packages/inst/perl5.005_3
','f','',159,0,0);
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12516,'Fri Nov 13 14:41:02 1998','Re: Re: PHP',1,12514,'
>Yes, it looked to me as if it\'s aimed at a slightly
>different job from what we want.
although some of the examples to look remarkably like what we are going to put together.
>Unless we can find
>something out there which (a) gives a veneer of
>common sense over SQL (b) separates the code from
>the HTML (c) will turn into business objects where
>necessary, then I think there is a benefit in
>rolling our own.
agreed (especially (b)).
>What is web objects?
Do you mean:
http://www.apple.com/webobjects/ ??
If so, it\'s not OSS so not a goer.
','f','',159,0,0);
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12517,'Mon Nov 16 9:38:52 1998','Requirements Doc',1,0,'
Just to stop us duplicating work:
I have started writing a newbox requirements document.
TimJ
','f','',159,0,0);
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12518,'Mon Nov 16 12:41:09 1998','Re: Re: PHP',2,12514,'
>Yes, it looked to me as if it\'s aimed at a slightly
>different job from what we want. Unless we can find
>something out there which (a) gives a veneer of
>common sense over SQL (b) separates the code from
>the HTML (c) will turn into business objects where
>necessary, then I think there is a benefit in
>rolling our own.
Agree, agree, agree. I feel that the separation we have
in Iglu is the right way forward: code can live in the
HTML template, the particular script generating the page
or a .pm handling a module of functionality. I think we
could do with some guidelines about where code should live
in these 3 things. For instance:
In modules
----------
All code should live in modules except:
In HTML (templates)
-------
Diplay orientated code (such as display this field as a
price (2 decimal places)).
In the script
-------------
Set up (template) variables, usually by using Database.pm
and any validation/Database updates.
These are obviously guidelines not rules. Any thoughts?
','f','',159,0,0);
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12519,'Mon Nov 16 15:34:36 1998','Re: Requirements Doc',1,12517,'
>I have started writing a newbox requirements document.
OK, I have had a quick go, but now must get on with Thea\'s 1st birthday website. So please, anyone, take up the batton and see where we go...
','f','',159,0,0);
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12520,'Tue Nov 17 10:39:19 1998','Re: PHP',4,12510,'
check out www.wasp.org---interesting!!
','f','',159,0,0);
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12521,'Tue Nov 17 12:11:50 1998','Re: Re: PHP',3,12520,'
>check out www.wasp.org---interesting!!
It does look cool.
I think that this is going to come up
time and time again, indeed it has already:
How and when do we decide to roll our own?
1. When no one else has thought of it (never)
2. When we need so much control that it is easier to DIY
3. When we want to show off
4. When we want to learn the hard way
PanerisI was very much motivated by 4.
I think that we should keep the templatez \'cos
they are cool, ours and 3/4 of us have learnt how to use them.
It migth be cool to get involved with WASP as well.
yours
TimP
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12522,'Tue Nov 17 12:13:20 1998','CommUnity ISP',3,0,'
Myles and I are going to visit CommUnity in Kiddlington
today.
We will try to set up a cosy relationship with them and
get a good price for the Newbox hosting.
yours
timP
','f','',159,0,0);
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12523,'Tue Nov 17 13:05:20 1998','Re: Re: Re: PHP',4,12521,'
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> It migth be cool to get involved with WASP as well.
Very much what I was thinking!
We should write to the man I reckon.
His code is good and already does some stuff we could definitely use.
','f','',159,0,0);
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12524,'Tue Nov 17 15:05:35 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: PHP is shit, long live WASP',1,12523,'
>Very much what I was thinking!
Somebody alway does it first :(
>We should write to the man I reckon.
>His code is good and already does some stuff we could definitely use.
That is brilliant, I think this is exactly what we are looking for, my favorite line from his site:
"They force you to use some arcane GUI environment to create your "application". This process always feels like Voodoo to me."
The GUI dead, long live the WUI.
I vote we use WASP (not sure about the name), for the PanerisII development, and everyone seems in agreement, so lets do it.
Damn, gotta get those java books out now..
(really I can\'t wait) :)
','f','',159,0,0);
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12525,'Tue Nov 17 16:31:28 1998','Re: CommUnity ISP',3,12522,'
>Myles and I are going to visit CommUnity in Kiddlington
>today.
>We will try to set up a cosy relationship with them and
>get a good price for the Newbox hosting.
Well seems like a success,
170 per calendar month plus 5p per meg beyond 100,
a reseller program which offers us 15% on sales.
Seems alright.
Contracts to follow.
yours
TimP
In CommUnity Offices :)
','f','',159,0,0);
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12526,'Tue Nov 17 17:34:38 1998','Naming the new box',3,0,'
The new box \'came alive\' on Chippies birthday, so
should perhaps be named in some way after him, but
that aside, I would like to propose \'Thea\' as it
is in keeping with the greek goddess theme
started with Eris.
What do you think?
yours
timP
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12527,'Tue Nov 17 17:45:45 1998','Re: Re: CommUnity ISP',3,12525,'
>Well seems like a success,
>170 per calendar month plus 5p per meg beyond 100,
>a reseller program which offers us 15% on sales.
>Seems alright.
CommUnity offer two deals:
200 gbp per calender month with a 5p per meg surcharge over 100meg
and 500 gbp per calender month flat.
On top of that they have a 15% reseller scheme through which
we could recoup some of the money and, generously, they have discounted
the 200gbp to 170gbp.
This brings me onto the issue of sharing the costs.
As you know I have been paying vast sums for years, but
have figured that I would be doing so anyway.
I think we have a new and clearer definition of core members:
those who contribute to the site AND pay for it :)
(Which means currently there is only one core member :)
SO:
All referal money should go to the Paneris Fund.
In addition Core members should set up standing orders to
the paneris fund ????
Or a per project levy???
or what?
>Contracts to follow.
All of the above is before VAT, I have told them initially
to make to contract out to Context Computing,
but perhaps this should be HOOP in light of the VAT.
CommUnity currently have surplus applications staff,
but this does change and will.
The MD is young and commanding, I like him, but, as ever in
business, he is a bit sharp.
They definitely have a more \'us\' feel, even though IWay
have a better machine room and more bandwidth.
All in all I think they are a goer.
yours
timP
','f','',159,0,0);
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12528,'Tue Nov 17 19:44:29 1998','Re: Re: Re: CommUnity ISP',1,12527,'
>>Well seems like a success,
>>170 per calendar month plus 5p per meg beyond 100,
>>a reseller program which offers us 15% on sales.
!!!
The I-way deal is 500gbp per _annum_, and has no bandwidth restrictions (as long as we do not abuse it).
There doesn\'t seem to be any option
>>Seems alright.
no
>CommUnity offer two deals:
>200 gbp per calender month with a 5p per meg surcharge over 100meg
>and 500 gbp per calender month flat.
>On top of that they have a 15% reseller scheme through which
>we could recoup some of the money and, generously, they have discounted
>the 200gbp to 170gbp.
15% off their 200 gbp deal is miserly, I-way came up with 75% reduction (from 2000 gbp per annum). Are these guys serious?
I-way also run a reseller program for which we get 10%, although we have yet to recieve anything (iglu is the first site we have actually put their way). Although I am trying to get them for some commission kruger should have got.
>
>This brings me onto the issue of sharing the costs.
>As you know I have been paying vast sums for years, but
>have figured that I would be doing so anyway.
>I think we have a new and clearer definition of core members:
>those who contribute to the site AND pay for it :)
>(Which means currently there is only one core member :)
>SO:
>All referal money should go to the Paneris Fund.
>In addition Core members should set up standing orders to
>the paneris fund ????
>Or a per project levy???
>or what?
The paneris fund has about a grand in it, so can easily absorb (and and has budgeted for 500 gbp). I we don\'t install until jan, there may not even be a next year after that :)
>
>>Contracts to follow.
? what does this mean ?
>All of the above is before VAT, I have told them initially
>to make to contract out to Context Computing,
>but perhaps this should be HOOP in light of the VAT.
would save 17.5%
>CommUnity currently have surplus applications staff,
>but this does change and will.
>The MD is young and commanding, I like him, but, as ever in
>business, he is a bit sharp.
<font=nice, with smile>well, he looked like he screwed you.</font>
>They definitely have a more \'us\' feel, even though IWay
>have a better machine room and more bandwidth.
>All in all I think they are a goer.
I don\'t
TimJ
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12529,'Tue Nov 17 19:56:17 1998','Newbox Project Organisation',3,0,'
Boys,
it seems as though we are doing the Newbox project
with a <em>who cares does</em> methodology.
I think this is the best possible mechanism but it does
rely upon a competition for influence or it runs the risk
of running into the sand.
I have created a project on the PMS and booked my hours,
suggest that others books their time. (No one else will:)
yours
TimP
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12530,'Tue Nov 17 20:15:34 1998','Re: Requirements Doc',3,12517,'
<h1>Paneris Interface Design</h1>
<h2>Suggestions:</h2>
1.we stop using the word \'node\' and use instead the word \'directory\', \'root\' and other
common terms for describing a file system
For people trained in dealing with tree structures \'node\' makes sense, and so
node is currently used within the code, but I agree that directory is clearer and more commonly understood.
2.the interface is improved to look much like Windows Explorer (or the GUI to the FS
on a more cool OS like BeOS or KDE?).
Certainly the left hand window with the
expanding file tree. By creating a familiar interface we will remove 90% of the
acceptance problems new users currently have. Quote from WilliamC: "It took me
ages to realize that the links on the left were actually directories".
What else would they be? :)
I feel that a \'web style\' interface is going to give us many design headaches in the
long term, and that we need to maintain the \'mapping of the FS\' interface, but we do
need to make it completely explicit that this is what we are doing.
Strongly agree.
3.an explicit path to the current directory is always displayed.
4.buttons are buttons (they roll-over, and are graphical).
NO, NO, NO......
the beauty of the current site is that it only uses the following graphics:
1. redball.gif - For write operations
2. greenball.gif - For read operations
3. up arrow - To go up the directory tree
4. right arrow - To continue
5. panerislogo.gi - branding
This is why the system is so fast.
Also the logs are easily analysed in terms of where people
actually went, at the moment, whereas loads of graphics will clog them up.
Can\'t we put more effort into formatting using HTML rather than graphics?
I know I am onto a looser here.
Anyway, the main point I want to add is that we should get away from the idea of
<strong>THE</strong> paneris interface. It is highly likely that I will continue to
use the current interface, not because I like it, but because I know it.
There is absolutly nothing to say that the current interface should remain the
default interface for casual browsers, but I would not want to lose either the current interface
or the Dos interface, as I find them intuitive and fast and useful.
To enable the multiplicity of views of Paneris is neither difficult nor costly in terms of cpu time,
so lets keep it varied and personalisable.
yours
TimP
','f','',159,0,0);
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12531,'Tue Nov 17 21:49:16 1998','Re: Re: Requirements Doc',1,12530,'
> 4.buttons are buttons (they roll-over, and are graphical).
> NO, NO, NO......
> the beauty of the current site is that it only uses the following graphics:
> 1. redball.gif - For write operations
> 2. greenball.gif - For read operations
> 3. up arrow - To go up the directory tree
> 4. right arrow - To continue
> 5. panerislogo.gi - branding
but the fact that you have to tell us what they mean indicates that they don\'t do their job. remember \'a pic is worth 1000 words\'?, well a good navigation button is worth a paragraph.
>This is why the system is so fast.
we will have to make a small compromise here.
>Also the logs are easily analysed in terms of where people
>actually went, at the moment, whereas loads of graphics will clog them up.
surely your log anaylser can easily filter out the pics.
>Can\'t we put more effort into formatting using HTML rather than graphics?
difficult (and you end up with bigger html than you graphics are (much)). consider:
<td bgcolor="#000000" width=1 height=1></td> is represented by 4 bits in a 16 color gif.
>I know I am onto a looser here.
sorry, but pics are important to the web, for better or wores.
>
>Anyway, the main point I want to add is that we should get away from the idea of
><strong>THE</strong> paneris interface. It is highly likely that I will continue to
>use the current interface, not because I like it, but because I know it.
cool. I agree we need several \'views\', I would like to see a \'messageboards only\' view.
>There is absolutly nothing to say that the current interface should remain the
>default interface for casual browsers, but I would not want to lose either the current interface
>or the Dos interface, as I find them intuitive and fast and useful.
cool. the important thing is the default interface as 90% of users do not change their default settings (even for their desktop environment).
>To enable the multiplicity of views of Paneris is neither difficult nor costly in terms of cpu time,
>so lets keep it varied and personalisable.
sure.
TimJ
','f','',159,0,0);
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12532,'Tue Nov 17 22:15:35 1998','WASP',1,12524,'
BIG prize for whoever gets a wasp servelet running first :)
','f','',159,0,0);
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12533,'Tue Nov 17 23:32:29 1998','Re: Re: Re: Requirements Doc',3,12531,'
>>I know I am onto a looser here.
>sorry, but pics are important to the web, for better or wores.
Sure, I rollover, lets have rollovers.
>>Anyway, the main point I want to add is that we should get away from the idea of
>><strong>THE</strong> paneris interface. It is highly likely that I will continue to
>>use the current interface, not because I like it, but because I know it.
>cool. I agree we need several \'views\', I would like to see a \'messageboards only\' view.
This is easy (ish) could you mock up what you are talking about?
yours
timP
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12534,'Wed Nov 18 8:46:08 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Requirements Doc',1,12533,'
>>cool. I agree we need several \'views\', I would like to see a \'messageboards only\' view.
>This is easy (ish) could you mock up what you are talking about?
I will after we have moved to newbox, I\'m sure PanerisI should have a functional freeze sooner or later.
TimJ
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12535,'Wed Nov 18 11:25:39 1998','Re: WASP',4,12532,'
>BIG prize for whoever gets a wasp servelet running first :)
see The Dilbert Principle :)
seriously, I\'ll have a go at this
','f','',159,0,0);
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12536,'Wed Nov 18 11:34:35 1998','Re: Requirements Doc',4,12517,'
>Just to stop us duplicating work:
>I have started writing a newbox requirements document.
>TimJ
Like it generally, except that the "Detailed requirements"
is what is meant to go in the functional spec (how it
looks).
Also the idea is that in users and services you list the
users and in some detail the services it offers them,
for instance, who gets what change control access,
etc. ie as much as you can without actually moving
into specifying the details of the interface
','f','',159,0,0);
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12537,'Wed Nov 18 14:26:33 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: CommUnity ISP',2,12528,'
>>>Well seems like a success,
>>>170 per calendar month plus 5p per meg beyond 100,
>>>a reseller program which offers us 15% on sales.
= £1683 pa (with VAT discount) + bandwidth charges
(what was the total throughput of Paneris in October?)
>The I-way deal is 500gbp per _annum_, and has no bandwidth restrictions (as long as we do not abuse it).
This arrange took quite a while to reach, I seem to remember.
In time, Community might give us a more favourable deal, but
probably only after we have a better relationship.
>>This brings me onto the issue of sharing the costs.
>>I think we have a new and clearer definition of core members:
>>those who contribute to the site AND pay for it :)
>>(Which means currently there is only one core member :)
We could pay for server hosting for a couple of years
with I-way or 6 months with Community out of the current
fund. If we are thinking of charging members, I would
prefer to go with I-Way at a third of the price. And
thank you very much to TimP for providing Paneris (financially
and otherwise).
>>SO:
>>All referal money should go to the Paneris Fund.
>>In addition Core members should set up standing orders to
>>the paneris fund ????
>>Or a per project levy???
I don\'t think we can get into sliding scales of charges
and I don\'t think we can insist that (non-core) members
use Paneris and then charge them for it!
>>All in all I think they are a goer.
>I don\'t
We can develop our (working) relationship and then think
about using them to host us, but I personally would rather
use I-Way to host the new machine on a financial basis, but
people might have other reason not to use them :-/
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
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12538,'Wed Nov 18 14:29:13 1998','Progress report',4,12535,'
Getting there ... I\'ve compiled Apache with JRun support,
though I haven\'t tested it and there seems to be a
config file missing; I can\'t get WASP to compile because
it needs Swing (duh!!) and that isn\'t in the linux
jdk---about to see if can get yet ...
','f','',159,0,0);
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12539,'Wed Nov 18 16:05:31 1998','more progress ...',4,12538,'
good, nearly there---
getting ClassNotFoundException but I definitely have
WASP looking for its pages (through apache, through
JRun ...)
','f','',159,0,0);
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12540,'Wed Nov 18 16:33:44 1998','Re: more progress ...',1,12539,'
>good, nearly there---
>getting ClassNotFoundException but I definitely have
>WASP looking for its pages (through apache, through
>JRun ...)
I can\'t get Jrun to work on IIS4, it just won\'t give me a server on http://localhost:8000
any ideas?
','f','',159,0,0);
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12541,'Wed Nov 18 19:19:40 1998','returns static pages OK',4,12539,'
Still have to work out how to register a data source!
','f','',159,0,0);
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12542,'Wed Nov 18 21:08:53 1998','sorted',4,12541,'
It\'s quite cool actually.
Do I get a big prize? :)
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12543,'Wed Nov 18 21:10:51 1998','Re: Re: more progress ...',4,12540,'
>I can\'t get Jrun to work on IIS4, it just won\'t give me a server on http://localhost:8000
If you want it to work with IIS you probably want it
running as a `proxy\' on 8081?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12544,'Wed Nov 18 21:12:01 1998','Re: Newbox Project Organisation',4,12529,'
>I think this is the best possible mechanism but it does
>rely upon a competition for influence or it runs the risk
>of running into the sand.
you wouldn\'t worry about that if you had read up on
Dilbert---"competition for influence" is what motivates
egineers
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12545,'Wed Nov 18 21:24:20 1998','Re: sorted',1,12542,'
>It\'s quite cool actually.
well done will.
>Do I get a big prize? :)
you do indeed (although it is, in fact, only large), and in the spirit of the community, we all get one.
in the post..
timJ
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12546,'Thu Nov 19 9:41:18 1998','Re: Re: Re: more progress ...',1,12543,'
>>I can\'t get Jrun to work on IIS4, it just won\'t give me a server on http://localhost:8000
>If you want it to work with IIS you probably want it
>running as a `proxy\' on 8081?
sorry, i meant 8081.
am I correct in saying that Jrun has it\'s own web server that runs completely independently of say IIS, which is what I am looking for on 8081. Out of interest it seems to find something on 8081 (it hangs arround), but never returns.
I am going to try harder as soon as I have more time.
TimJ
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12547,'Thu Nov 19 9:50:34 1998','Re: Naming the new box',1,12526,'
>The new box \'came alive\' on Chippies birthday, so
>should perhaps be named in some way after him,
What about \'Tiger\' :)
>but
>that aside, I would like to propose \'Thea\' as it
>is in keeping with the greek goddess theme
>started with Eris.
I would not like Thea (for the same reasons that I would not call my dog Thea).
What about \'Ron\' (the bloke who always won elections to the Strudents Union etc.)
>What do you think?
>yours
>timP
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12548,'Thu Nov 19 9:52:08 1998','messaging',1,0,'
http://www.egroups.com/
only moderately interesting.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12549,'Thu Nov 19 13:07:54 1998','Re: Re: Naming the new box',2,12547,'
>>The new box \'came alive\' on Chippies birthday, so
>>should perhaps be named in some way after him,
>What about \'Tiger\' :)
... easy!
>>but that aside, I would like to propose \'Thea\' as it
>>is in keeping with the greek goddess theme
>>started with Eris.
>I would not like Thea (for the same reasons that I would not call my dog Thea).
>What about \'Ron\' (the bloke who always won elections to the Strudents Union etc.)
Who is this Ron guy?
Not very seriously:
- Eric or anything containing it (neweric?)
- a new Tim (timN for Timothy Newbox)
Thinking of naming it like a dog:
- Box,Machine or Computer (my Mum always wanted to call one of her dogs \'Dog\')
- Bullet (best name ever for a dog!)
Or we could go for a \'cool\' name. I always liked a guy who
posted to a newgroup I read from purplehaze.sun.com...
How about Turing, vonNeumann or Godel? Or Bill or Gates :-)
Or, my favourite, Pipes (Pan, geddit?)
Other suggestions on a postcard to the usual address
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12550,'Thu Nov 19 13:28:34 1998','Re: Re: Re: Naming the new box',1,12549,'
>- a new Tim (timN for Timothy Newbox)
like this, it them becomes just another member of paneris (timN@paneris.co.uk)
perhaps PanN?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12551,'Thu Nov 19 15:47:00 1998','How to install WASP',4,0,'
See http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/newbox/WASPInstall.html
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12552,'Thu Nov 19 17:08:35 1998','freshmeat.net',4,0,'
By the way, I omitted to mention where I got the pointer
to WASP from---it was announced on freshmeat.net
(almost everything of interest is). Those who don\'t
know about it should take a look.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12553,'Fri Nov 20 9:48:26 1998','Kaffe; was Re: How to install WASP',4,12551,'
>See http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/newbox/WASPInstall.html
I got the newest Kaffe; I think it nearly works on JRun.
The problem is that JRun uses serialisation to save its
session state in a Hashtable. Serialisation of Hashtables
in particular is the subject of some cussing in the
Kaffe Known Bugs FAQ :) !
It might simply be a matter of erasing JRun\'s state files
and forcing it to recreate them using Kaffe\'s serialiser.
Dunno, will try sometime.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12554,'Mon Nov 23 12:42:50 1998','Setting up the box',2,0,'
Dear all,
Sorry if people think there has been little progress on the
nexbox (I\'ve been doing these expander things which have made
me get into Paneris and see what\'s happening a bit).
But as for the newbox proper, I\'ve looked at the Requirement
and Functional specifications (from TimJ). I think it might be
a bit early for the architecture document, but this document
should form the basis of the Implementation Plan. I have
altered the documentation document to include a section on
the Implemenation Plan. Could people please look at it and
modify it (under /system/quality). Note that we still don\'t
have a quality plan explained (although I think I have the
gist).
So, the implementation plan so far is:
1) Update Perl and Postgresql
2) Set up a CVS repository to cover the web server
Note that all access to the file system in Paneris
must be converted so that CVS mediates. I have worries
about checking out one file and replacing it (when we
do a \'modify this document\') but William thinks things
should be OK. When do we \'release\' a new version of the
web site? Do we need to (I\'m still grappling with CVS...)
3) Install the current Paneris site into the repository
and the current code into it\'s own directory (still fighting
to get Apache to recognise new CGI directories - sigh).
4) Install the current PMS and get it working. Will, do you
have a nice script to extract the data from the PMS? I
don\'t have Access 97 here...
And then... mostly depends on whether PanerisII will be done
in Perl or Java.
Comments?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12555,'Mon Nov 23 13:05:12 1998','Re: Setting up the box',1,12554,'
>4) Install the current PMS and get it working. Will, do you
> have a nice script to extract the data from the PMS? I
> don\'t have Access 97 here...
I will attempt (again) to get you this, the problem last time was that my CD writer just failed after about 500MB.
>And then... mostly depends on whether PanerisII will be done
>in Perl or Java.
Java using WASP and JRun gets my vote.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12556,'Mon Nov 23 13:35:13 1998','Re: Kaffe; was Re: How to install WASP',1,12553,'
>>See http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/newbox/WASPInstall.html
>I got the newest Kaffe; I think it nearly works on JRun.
>The problem is that JRun uses serialisation to save its
>session state in a Hashtable. Serialisation of Hashtables
>in particular is the subject of some cussing in the
>Kaffe Known Bugs FAQ :) !
>It might simply be a matter of erasing JRun\'s state files
>and forcing it to recreate them using Kaffe\'s serialiser.
>Dunno, will try sometime.
Why do we want to use Kaffe on Jrun?
What about the native code that is part of Jrun?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12557,'Mon Nov 23 21:04:21 1998','Re: Re: Setting up the box',4,12555,'
>Java using WASP and JRun gets my vote.
Mine too with the proviso that JRun\'s is definitely not
uncontroversially free. In fact it seems to say "you
can use this yourself but you can\'t use it for customer
jobs" (go and look).
It seems to me either that the servlet API is difficult---
in which case we might not want to use it---or, more likely,
it\'s easy and we can knock up something
with the right 40% of the functionality. Perhaps something
which worked via a trivial CGI C program connecting to
a running Java server.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12558,'Mon Nov 23 21:06:27 1998','Re: Re: Kaffe; was Re: How to install WASP',4,12556,'
>Why do we want to use Kaffe on Jrun?
Because to put it bluntly the non-JIT JDK is a dog.
It\'s bound to be faster than big Perl but still.
>What about the native code that is part of Jrun?
JNI should work in Kaffe.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12559,'Tue Nov 24 10:33:29 1998','Re: Re: Re: Setting up the box',1,12557,'
>>Java using WASP and JRun gets my vote.
>Mine too with the proviso that JRun\'s is definitely not
>uncontroversially free. In fact it seems to say "you
>can use this yourself but you can\'t use it for customer
>jobs" (go and look).
I don\'t like these people eithier, have you looked at:
http://java.apache.org/
also
http://www.kluft.com/ikluft/perl/conf2.0/index.html
is an overview.
it\'s opensource, and appears to allow Perl Servelets !?
http://coolboard.nikos.com/javatoys/deep/servlets/
appears to have lots of good servelet links.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12560,'Wed Nov 25 11:00:48 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Setting up the box',4,12559,'
>I don\'t like these people eithier, have you looked at:
>http://java.apache.org/
Brilliant, solves the problem!
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12561,'Sat Nov 28 17:38:40 1998','Re: Setting up the box',4,12554,'
Just read the diary. You seemed to do an awful lot of
reinstalling and rebooting ... the way to get new hardware
to work without reinstalling to get RedHat\'s autoprobe (!)
is to poke around the HOWTOs. Grep is your friend.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12562,'Mon Nov 30 11:45:20 1998','java template engines',1,0,'
http://www.meangene.com/otembo/
also oss (i think)
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12563,'Mon Nov 30 23:24:10 1998','wasp',1,0,'
Will,
I am getting this debug trace from wasp:
initializing the WASP...
Creating TagletRegistry
Registering taglet: once
Registering taglet: param
Registering taglet: cycle
Registering taglet: block
Registering taglet: session
Registering taglet: foreach
Registering taglet: switch
Registering taglet: data
Creating DataRegistry
Registering taglet: input
Debugging started
The WASP is using CLASSPATH=classes;..\classes;..\lib\jrun.jar;..\examples\jni;z:\Program Files\JRun\2.2\jre\1.1\lib\rt.jar;z:\Program Files\JRun\2.2\jre\1.1\lib\i18n.jar;z:\Program Files\JRun\2.2\jre\1.1\lib\classes.zip;z:\Program Files\JRun\2.2\jre\1.1\classes
Started PageCage()
Class.forName(uk.co.paneris.Foo)
java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError
It\'s dieing at line 143 in servlet.java
any ideas, the class is there otherwise I would get
java.lang.ClassNotFoundException
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12564,'Tue Dec 1 10:01:24 1998','Re: wasp - fixed',1,12563,'
Challenge for me this one:
The jsm \'java arguements\' did not include the swing jar in the classpath!!
anyway, big progress, time to get my datasources sorted out..
>Will,
>I am getting this debug trace from wasp:
>initializing the WASP...
>Creating TagletRegistry
>Registering taglet: once
>Registering taglet: param
>Registering taglet: cycle
>Registering taglet: block
>Registering taglet: session
>Registering taglet: foreach
>Registering taglet: switch
>Registering taglet: data
>Creating DataRegistry
>Registering taglet: input
>Debugging started
>The WASP is using CLASSPATH=classes;..\classes;..\lib\jrun.jar;..\examples\jni;z:\Program Files\JRun\2.2\jre\1.1\lib\rt.jar;z:\Program Files\JRun\2.2\jre\1.1\lib\i18n.jar;z:\Program Files\JRun\2.2\jre\1.1\lib\classes.zip;z:\Program Files\JRun\2.2\jre\1.1\classes
>Started PageCage()
>Class.forName(uk.co.paneris.Foo)
>java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError
>It\'s dieing at line 143 in servlet.java
>any ideas, the class is there otherwise I would get
>java.lang.ClassNotFoundException
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12565,'Tue Dec 1 11:27:53 1998','Re: Re: wasp - IT WORKS',1,12564,'
I recon this took me about twice as long as will (at least), but I am working on win32.
anyway, we now have a xplatform java servlet solution. I think I am going to start rewriting our generic db access programs to try and get the hang of this. Anyone got any better ideas?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12566,'Wed Dec 2 15:04:18 1998','wasp - Install notes',1,12565,'
I have written up my installation notes for WASP on NT. I think that they are a useful read even if you are installing on Linux, as I have documented a little more about debug files etc.
','f','',159,0,0);
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12567,'Wed Jan 13 21:44:19 1999','install of new box',1,0,'
Chippy,
I am proposing to go to i-way on 25/01/1999 to update their impaired server. I would be cool to drop off the newbox at the same time. realistic?
Cheers
TimJ
BTW:
new dell out of box, boot up, play with for about 1 hour. Fatal Crash. win98 doh!
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12568,'Thu Jan 14 14:44:27 1999','Alternative(s) to WASP',4,0,'
http://www.webmacro.org
see especially quickstart and othertech
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12569,'Thu Jan 14 17:18:20 1999','Re: install of new box',2,12567,'
>Chippy,
>I am proposing to go to i-way on 25/01/1999 to update their impaired server. I would be cool to drop off the newbox at the same time. realistic?
Yes. See you then (and I\'ll give you RedHat then, too).
>Cheers
>TimJ
>BTW:
>new dell out of box, boot up, play with for about 1 hour.
>Fatal Crash. win98 doh!
:-)
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12570,'Thu Jan 14 21:12:09 1999','Re: Alternative(s) to WASP',3,12568,'
>http://www.webmacro.org
>see especially quickstart and othertech
I like it a lot.
Not that I didn\'t like Wasp, but this has a little more
of the Canadian thang :)
Will, I have a real newbie question which Tim and Chips
can\'t answer: which is
why, given the JSDK2.0 servlet runner, which sits happily
listening on Port 8080, do I need JServ /JRun ?
Is it meerly for the luxury of missing out the port in URLs ?
It is very exciting being on the mailing lists for
apache-java, sun-servlet interest and webmacro, but it is a deluge !!
your
timP
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12571,'Thu Jan 14 22:47:38 1999','Re: Alternative(s) to WASP',1,12568,'
>http://www.webmacro.org
I think that this presents a significant improvement to WASP for the following reasons:
1) More work appears to have been done
2) It appears a lot cleaner (better defined namespaces etc)3) better documentation
4) More people are involved, the mailing list has had three posts, and I only joined 1 hour ago)
5) Control for the application is the right way round (driven from servlets not templates)
6) The people involved seem to be more competant.
I have looked at JSP from sun, and although free at the moment, I found this snipped on jeeves.java.sun.com:
The Version 0.92 reference implementation is still available at no charge.
it is certainly not OSS.
I can\'t find anything on Apache JServ Templates.
I suggest we look seriously at webmacro, if you havn\'t looked at WASP yet, don\'t.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12572,'Mon Jan 18 15:57:20 1999','webmacro',1,0,'
I have webmacro returning data in a template from a jdbc/odbc datasource on NT/IIS with JRun.
(just showingoff).
More details to follow, i\'m off to london now. back wednesday.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12573,'Tue Jan 19 0:23:33 1999','JServ Installation article',2,0,'
There\'s quite a good article on installing Jserv
(now running on the new box) on a number of platforms at
http://www.servletcentral.com/1999-01/jserv.dchtml
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12574,'Wed Jan 20 18:57:10 1999','Webmacro working at last',3,0,'
Well, I have, at last (6 days), gotten Apache (1.1.3),
JServ (1.0b1) and webmacro to work on my Win 95 machine.
I must say that the examples in Jserv (and in Ari\'s article)
and in webmacro are very confusing.
I imagine I am one of the few people who have moved from
Perl and Website to Java and Apache in one go, so perhaps my
ignorance is not expected :)
As the \ character is the line-continuation character
used by the jserv initArgs loader I had to change
WebMacro.properties to use / in file names.
It was not clear what the relationship between the zone
properties (Apache JServ/conf/webmacro.properties) and
the webmacro supplied properties was/is, I tried
to move everything into the zone properties, but this did not work.
Nor did all the other things I tried:
Apache 1.3.4
Jserv 1.0.b2
jdk1.1.6 (well probably didn\'t cause a problem)
However I am pleased to have got it working, and thanks
to all those who made it.
yours
timp
','f','',159,0,0);
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12575,'Thu Jan 21 13:31:27 1999','hashtables and vectors',1,0,'
Right,
For about the 3rd time in as many weeks (and as many programming languages), i need a Vector/Hashtable datastructure that allows me to access individual items by key name (like a hashtable), but also step through the keys (and values) in the order that they were added to the object (like a Vector).
I know this is easy to write, but it seems so necessary that, now I\'m working in Java, it should be part of java.util, but I can\'t find anything useful. Am I going about this the right way?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12576,'Thu Jan 21 14:03:52 1999','Re: hashtables and vectors',2,12575,'
>Right,
>For about the 3rd time in as many weeks (and as many programming languages), i need a Vector/Hashtable datastructure that allows me to access individual items by key name (like a hashtable), but also step through the keys (and values) in the order that they were added to the object (like a Vector).
>I know this is easy to write, but it seems so necessary that, now I\'m working in Java, it should be part of java.util, but I can\'t find anything useful. Am I going about this the right way?
I\'d have thought so. I\'m guessing that we need to write a
org.paneris.util package containing your new class, no?
I heard someone say that they didn\'t like multiple inheritence
in C++ until they started using Java, which is when they needed it!
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12577,'Thu Jan 21 14:11:16 1999','Re: Re: hashtables and vectors',1,12576,'
>I\'d have thought so. I\'m guessing that we need to write a
>org.paneris.util package containing your new class, no?
Yes, but should it not be uk.co.paneris at present. But perhaps it would be cool to register paneris.org?
>I heard someone say that they didn\'t like multiple inheritence
>in C++ until they started using Java, which is when they needed it!
:)
How\'s jserve coming along?
TimJ
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12578,'Thu Jan 21 14:44:18 1999','Re: Re: hashtables and vectors',4,12576,'
>I heard someone say that they didn\'t like multiple inheritence
>in C++ until they started using Java, which is when they needed it!
I said that to Andrew Fitzgibbon once and he said "funny
that\'s exactly what I say to people". So it was probably
from one of us ...
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12579,'Thu Jan 21 14:52:55 1999','Re: hashtables and vectors',4,12575,'
>Right,
>For about the 3rd time in as many weeks (and as many programming languages), i need a Vector/Hashtable datastructure that allows me to access individual items by key name (like a hashtable), but also step through the keys (and values) in the order that they were added to the object (like a Vector).
>I know this is easy to write, but it seems so necessary that, now I\'m working in Java, it should be part of java.util, but I can\'t find anything useful. Am I going about this the right way?
Am I missing the point? Surely you want both a hashtable
and an array. What could be easier or more efficient than
that?
Is this about hashing words to unique serial identifiers?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12580,'Thu Jan 21 15:10:34 1999','Re: Re: hashtables and vectors',1,12579,'
Will,
>Am I missing the point? Surely you want both a hashtable
>and an array. What could be easier or more efficient than
>that?
I just want a single class. But enough chat, I\'ll just write it. I was only wondering weather such a class already exists.
>Is this about hashing words to unique serial identifiers?
No.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12581,'Thu Jan 21 15:51:19 1999','Paneris.org',3,0,'
Tim,
Yes, yes, yes - we do need paneris.org, and
the java utils name space makes the issue more urgent.
You are currently holding a Paneris fund, so could you
set it in motion and pay the bill.
In general I think that the migration from paneris to
panerisII will be facilitated by having a live and a development site,
until the paneris.co.uk can be safely mothballed, or left to
my naff purposes or whatever.
yours
TimP
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12582,'Thu Jan 21 20:18:07 1999','Re: Paneris.org',1,12581,'
>Tim,
>Yes, yes, yes - we do need paneris.org, and
>the java utils name space makes the issue more urgent.
cool, underway.
>You are currently holding a Paneris fund, so could you
>set it in motion and pay the bill.
cool
>In general I think that the migration from paneris to
>panerisII will be facilitated by having a live and a development site,
>until the paneris.co.uk can be safely mothballed, or left to
>my naff purposes or whatever.
agreed.
TimJ
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12583,'Tue Jan 26 22:08:44 1999','new box',4,0,'
Is it there yet???
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12584,'Tue Jan 26 23:23:13 1999','Re: new box',1,12583,'
>Is it there yet???
194.128.98.74
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12585,'Wed Jan 27 12:08:25 1999','Re: new box',2,12583,'
>Is it there yet???
Yes, 194.128.98.74
We need to change passwords and create accounts for everyone.
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12586,'Wed Feb 3 11:57:07 1999','Re: Re: new box',1,12584,'
>>Is it there yet???
>194.128.98.74
and now:
www.paneris.org!
perhaps we should redirect to www.paneris.co.uk for the time being
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12587,'Wed Feb 3 13:47:51 1999','Re: Re: Re: new box',2,12586,'
>>>Is it there yet???
>>194.128.98.74
>and now:
>www.paneris.org!
>perhaps we should redirect to www.paneris.co.uk for the time being
I don\'t think we need to do that - it\'ll make development
difficult.
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12588,'Fri Feb 5 21:12:34 1999','ftpd',1,0,'
chippy,
I have changed the permissions on home/ftp/pub to be 557 so that users can write to it.
I appreciate that this may well be incorrect.
I guess the problem is our user model?
Full permissions are granted for all users by default, whereas we should have a group that grants full permissions, and be able to set up groups for say "ftp users".
I need to buy unix for dummies. doh.. so much to do.
TimJ
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12589,'Tue Feb 16 19:08:25 1999','security ...',4,0,'
Did we all read about the catastrophic holes in ftpd
and pine (buffer overruns as usual)?
Shall I install RedHat\'s fix rpm?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12590,'Wed Feb 17 11:05:43 1999','Re: security ...',2,12589,'
>Did we all read about the catastrophic holes in ftpd
>and pine (buffer overruns as usual)?
>Shall I install RedHat\'s fix rpm?
I hadn\'t. Where did you see it? Slashdot?
If you fancy patching them, that\'d be great.
Also, is there any chance of you setting up sendmail
on ganesh to accept ...@paneris.org, will? I can set up
the pop3 server but to be frank I\'m scared witless
by sendmail.cf :-)
What d\'ya reckon?
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
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12591,'Wed Feb 17 12:32:25 1999','Re: Re: security ...',4,12590,'
>Also, is there any chance of you setting up sendmail
>on ganesh to accept ...@paneris.org, will? I can set up
>the pop3 server but to be frank I\'m scared witless
>by sendmail.cf :-)
There isn\'t a lot of point in doing that until we can
get the MX record for paneris.org set to point to
ganesh---at present it points to i-way\'s mail servers.
Either we get i-way to change it in their nameserver,
or we bypass them entirely and run our own nameserver,
registering ganesh as the nameserver for paneris.org
directly in the root nameserver of whatever the
authority is called these days. I don\'t know which if
either is possible under i-way\'s rules.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12592,'Wed Feb 17 13:01:25 1999','Re: Re: security ...',4,12590,'
ftpd updated
sendmail didn\'t really need configuring, though
freeserve\'s unilateral capture of all port 25
traffic on their local mail forwarder confused
me a bit ...
if we change the DNS MX record, it will all work fine
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12593,'Thu Feb 18 17:50:16 1999','Re: Re: Re: security ...',4,12592,'
Incidentally let me just make it absolutely clear that
I don\'t edit sendmail.cf either these days---use linuxconf,
it does it all for you very well once you have
enabled the mailconf module, which I have on ghanesh.
Now, you may well ask why it isn\'t enabled by default ...
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12594,'Sat Feb 20 11:29:45 1999','Re: Re: Re: security ...',1,12591,'
>There isn\'t a lot of point in doing that until we can
>get the MX record for paneris.org set to point to
>ganesh---at present it points to i-way\'s mail servers.
can you let me know how i tell weather this has ben done so that i can chase them if it hasn\'t
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12595,'Sun Feb 21 12:59:32 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: security ...',4,12594,'
>>There isn\'t a lot of point in doing that until we can
>>get the MX record for paneris.org set to point to
>>ganesh---at present it points to i-way\'s mail servers.
>can you let me know how i tell weather this has ben done so that i can chase them if it hasn\'t
it hasn\'t
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12596,'Mon Feb 22 10:44:59 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: security ...',1,12595,'
>>>There isn\'t a lot of point in doing that until we can
>>>get the MX record for paneris.org set to point to
>>>ganesh---at present it points to i-way\'s mail servers.
>>can you let me know how i tell weather this has ben done so that i can chase them if it hasn\'t
>it hasn\'t
it is now allegedly done, please try again.
TimJ
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12597,'Wed Mar 3 14:42:07 1999','i-way',1,0,'
looks like i-way are having dns problems, which may prevent some of us getting onto ganesh with ftp or telnet. Aparently fix time is about 1 hour
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12598,'Thu Mar 18 20:10:26 1999','Sys Admin - where do we put projects',2,0,'
All,
We need to organise all files associated with a project in
some way. There are some categories:
<ol>
<li>Project documentation - this is will live within PanerisII (which is useful to think of as a project itself)
<li>Html - skeleton site or implementation build
<li>Project code (java - source and binaries, perl)
<li>Shared code (e.g. paneris java utils, DB Admin handlers)
</ol>
We need to organise these files bearing in mind that we would like to store these in the CVS and presumably upload
them onto another server at some point.
For this reason it seems sensible to organise all files for a particular project together under one directory. This will
allow us to checkout out one CVS module per project. Possible directories under a project directory could include:
<ul>
<li><tt>html</tt> - like htdocs
<li><tt>cgi-bin</tt> - like on a web-site
<li><tt>handlers</tt> - webmacro handlers
<li><tt>java</tt> - other (non-handler) java code specific to this project
<li><tt>templates</tt>
</ul>
Note, however, that I think the project documentation should
live somewhere else (inside the PanerisII project) since we
should only really be concerned about interacting with that
via the web interface.
This looks very much like a virtual server, and I think we
should treat it as one:
<ol>
<li>We can define apache virtual servers which allow us to define separate html and cgi-bin directories
<li>We can extend the classpath in jserv.properties (and/or define new jserv servlet zones) which takes care of handlers
<li>We can extend the classpath again to take care of other java (or we can put the handlers in here and have a serlvet dir, or something)
</ol>
This just leaves the templates. At present we can only have one template directory for each instance of webmacro. We could have a jserv zone for each webmacro application, but the JVM that webmacro launches is relatively large (I\'m not sure if it\'s large enough to worry about).
We can have different directories in the template directory, so we could make links from each projects template directory into the central one, but then we would need to refer to templates as \'sugar/results.wm\'. Is <i>is</i> a problem? Any preferences?
I think that that is a fairly sensible organisation for projects. Where should we put each project\'s directory? I suggest that we put them under: <b><tt>/home</tt></b> where at the minute we have <tt>/home/httpd</tt>. Thoughts?
What about code common to a number of projects? This includes:
<ul>
<li>administration handlers
<li>common java (e.g. datadictionary stuff, utils, messageboards)
<li>common perl
</ul>
We can get access to generic handlers so long as the
classpath includes the central repostitory of generic
code. Similarly for common java. All we need to ensure is that all common code and handlers can be parameterised by the project (or database for that project, or whatever).
If we need to, we can copy the code into each project (but then we would have to worry about multiple versions - ugh).
A similar comment applies to perl, except we would need to
have the equivalent of a \'common\' project holding common code. Inluding files in Perl does my head in, so someone who knows more might like to comment.
So, I propose that we create a similar level of directories to that proposed for each project. To keep things nice we should put them under /home/httpd, but that doesn\'t seem quite right. At present we have a directory doing a similar job : /usr/local/dev.
(Aside: maybe we should put generic handlers in dev/java/org/paneris/handlers rather than having a separate handlers directory dev/handlers?
Does that seem alright, and should we bother having a different jserv zone for each project?
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
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12599,'Fri Mar 19 13:24:57 1999','Re: Sys Admin - where do we put projects',4,12598,'Posted on behalf of WilliamC by Mylesc
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:22:15 GMT
From: William Chesters <williamc@dai.ed.ac.uk>
To: paneris@i-way.co.uk, lurker@paneris.co.uk
Subject: Sys Admin - where do we put projects [/system/newbox/ by Mylesc]
X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under Emacs 20.2.1
Sorry about this long message ... the gist should be clear in amongst
the rambling.
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> For this reason it seems sensible to organise all files for a
> particular project together under one directory. This will allow us
> to checkout out one CVS module per project.
God yes, that\'s critical.
> Note, however, that I think the project documentation should
> live somewhere else (inside the PanerisII project) since we
> should only really be concerned about interacting with that
> via the web interface.
No, it should go along with the code. The quality docs, code
documentation docs, code drafts, scribbled notes, code, templates,
test data, even the live data should all be a seamless,
cross-referring whole with the integrity of the references maintained
by CVS checkpointing.
Everything, but everything, relating to a project goes under that
project\'s directory. It makes version control and backup and copying
and deletion and everything far easier.
> This just leaves the templates. At present we can only have one
> template directory for each instance of webmacro.
This is a technical problem and there is bound to be a solution,
whether it involves symbolic links or hacking webmacro to behave
differently or whatever. As far as I can see, if webmacro has a
single template directory then it\'s entirely natural to call the
templates "sugar/foo..." since otherwise you are collapsing namespaces
and making a great big scrambled pudding of a directory.
> We could have a whether it involves symlinks or
> jserv zone for each webmacro application, but the JVM that webmacro
> launches is relatively large (I\'m not sure if it\'s large enough to
> worry about).
The executable and shared libraries will be shared between processes.
In fact there is something to be said in favour of splitting
essentially separate tasks between separate JVMs: garbage collection
takes time essentially proportional to the size of your live data set.
> I think that that is a fairly sensible organisation for
> projects. Where should we put each project\'s directory? I suggest
> that we put them under: <b><tt>/home</tt></b> where at the minute
> we have <tt>/home/httpd</tt>. Thoughts?
Fine, if projects really do correspond to Unix users (as httpd is a
Unix user). Otherwise something under /usr/local is a fair choice.
For what it\'s worth I have always found that the best global directory
structure on your machine is one that makes the cleanest possible
separation between
o OS
o generic installed software
o generic software distributions (ie sources you compile)
o master copies of your own specific packages
o stuff specific to the functioning of the particular machine
For example that\'s in increasing order of backup-worthiness. If you
have a convention that everything under /usr/local/packages is
something you have installed onto the machine on top of what came on
the CD, then the backup problem reduces to (1) a list of the installed
RPMs, which you can get from rpm -qa and (2) a backup of
/usr/local/packages and /home, plus whatever symlinks are needed from
/usr/local/bin, /usr/local/lib and /usr/local/man to activate the
packages. Similarly installing your whole environment on a new
machine just means ensuring (1) and copying (2).
I would argue for
/usr/local/packages/master/cvsroot/projects/bloggs-plc/sugar as the
CVS repository,
/usr/local/packages/inst/projects/bloggs-plc/sugar-1.06 as the
installed, currently running version and
/usr/local/packages/dist/projects/bloggs-plc/sugar-1.06 as the
canonical distribution (only needed if there is compilation or
equivalent to be done).
> What about code common to a number of projects? This includes:
> <ul>
> <li>administration handlers
> <li>common java (e.g. datadictionary stuff, utils, messageboards)
> <li>common perl
> </ul>
That goes in /usr/local/packages/master/cvsroot/dbadmin. Under
there goes everything to do with the datadictionary library. That
means Java, Perl and ML versions of the code (with the Java probably
under src/java/org/paneris/dbadmin), all the documentation, and
so on.
> We can get access to generic handlers so long as the
> classpath includes the central repostitory of generic
> code.
Yeah, or what I do is make symlinks out of /usr/local/lib/java. For
some reason I don\'t like PATHs, CLASSPATHs, Perl INCs, C -Is ...
symlinks let you have these relationships explicit in the filesystem,
not hidden in some stupid .bash_profile.
> If we need to, we can copy the code into each project (but then we
> would have to worry about multiple versions - ugh).
Yes but if you don\'t do that, then you have to be very disciplined
about versioning on the libraries and effectively making a new release
of *all* the libraries every time you make a snapshot of one of the
projects they depend on. Otherwise things break annoyingly.
In summary, I believe strongly that these are the right ways to
organise our directories:
o according to functionality
and these are the wrong ways:
o "it\'s source" versus "it\'s documentation"
o "it\'s HTML" versus "it\'s code"
o "it\'s Java" versus "it\'s Perl"
o for the convenience of our server software
Here\'s a tree for classifying all the files on the computer by function:
OS
...
machine config
...
users\' files
<users>
...
installed packages
package distributions (e.g. sources to be compiled)
<packages>
...
package installations
ours
<for each customer>
<packages>
...
...
third party
...
our master sources/docs
general libraries
<libraries>
...
specific projects
<for each customer>
<projects>
...
...
That suggests the following directory structure:
/usr/local everything installed specially on this machine
/usr/local/packages the bodies of the installed software
/usr/local/packages/dist ... their distributions, where necessary
/usr/local/packages/inst ... their actual installations
/usr/local/packages
/usr/local/packages/master master copies of our software
/usr/local/packages/master/cvsroot
our CVS repository
/usr/local/packages/master/cvsroot/<library>
our libraries (source + docs)
/usr/local/packages/master/cvsroot/projects/<customer>/<project>
our projects (source + docs)
/usr/local/packages/inst/paneris/<customer>/<project>-#.##
installed binaries etc. of a project
/usr/local/bin links to the appropriate files in packages/inst
/usr/local/lib ditto, where necessary
/usr/local/include etc.
/etc this machine\'s configuration
/home stuff specific to particular users
in particular:
/home/httpd links into packages/inst, or
working copies in developers
directories
Operations this scheme supports: foolproof, low-effort and prioritised
backup; simple package deletion; hassle-free copying of packages onto
other machines. It\'s also transparent and consistent, which means
easier understanding for us and incomers and fewer silly mistakes.
The working practices go as follows:
You do development work on a personal copy of absolutely everything
(code, HTML, data, docs ...), whether that\'s on your own machine or on
a common dev machine. That\'s under /home/you/whateveryouwant,
completely informal and outside the above framework.
When you are happy that you have done the work to implement a
particular thing, you commit to the CVS repository.
During early development you maybe just do a cvs update into the
common development site directory.
As we start to have more to show the customer and the thing gets
bigger, we make things a bit more orderly by following this procedure:
o work in your personal dir
o cvs commit
o get thumbs up from from project leader to ...
o cvs tag a new "release"
o cvs update it into the new directory
.../packages/inst/paneris/<customer>/<project>-0.4.37
o perhaps test it a bit, informally
o move the link
.../packages/inst/paneris/<customer>/<project>
to point to ...-0.4.37, thus making it the site pointed
to by the web server---but we can still switch back
very easily
For post-release maintenance, when the site is live, there are more
stringent tests and signoffs to go through.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12600,'Fri Mar 19 13:27:35 1999','Re: Re: Sys Admin - where do we put projects',2,12599,'
All,
[snip]
>No, it should go along with the code. The quality docs, code
>documentation docs, code drafts, scribbled notes, code, templates,
>test data, even the live data should all be a seamless,
>cross-referring whole with the integrity of the references maintained
>by CVS checkpointing.
OK. I suppose that because we will be interacting with the project docs
via the web interface things will be OK so long as PanerisII knows
where to find it (or we can create links).
> > This just leaves the templates. At present we can only have one
> > template directory for each instance of webmacro.
>
>This is a technical problem and there is bound to be a solution,
>whether it involves symbolic links or hacking webmacro to behave
>differently or whatever. As far as I can see, if webmacro has a
>single template directory then it\'s entirely natural to call the
>templates "sugar/foo..." since otherwise you are collapsing namespaces
>and making a great big scrambled pudding of a directory.
Indeed. You\'ve then got to careful about changing the source to read
in the correct templates if, for instance, you decide that the templates
for the db admin stuff should live in templates/admin rather than
templates/paneris :-) C\'est la vie.
[what about templates]
> > We could have a whether it involves symlinks or
> > jserv zone for each webmacro application, but the JVM that webmacro
> > launches is relatively large (I\'m not sure if it\'s large enough to
> > worry about).
>
>The executable and shared libraries will be shared between processes.
>In fact there is something to be said in favour of splitting
>essentially separate tasks between separate JVMs: garbage collection
>takes time essentially proportional to the size of your live data set.
OK. We can worry about that when we start getting perfomance troubles...
>Fine, if projects really do correspond to Unix users (as httpd is a
>Unix user). Otherwise something under /usr/local is a fair choice.
/usr/local it is, then, unless anyone has an idea why not...
>I would argue for
>/usr/local/packages/master/cvsroot/projects/bloggs-plc/sugar as the
>CVS repository,
At present the CVS root is /usr/cvsroot. Can we checkout projects/bloggs-plc?
I was under the impression that you (initially) had to check out
a top-level module (i.e. projects, nots projects/bloggs-plc). I\'m
wrong, I assume.
BTW, how do you find out what modules you have in your CVS repository
using a cvs command (i.e. without cd\'ing over to the repository
and looking at the directories!)?
Remember that I-way back the machine up, so we don\'t have to worry
so much about doing it manually...
>/usr/local/packages/inst/projects/bloggs-plc/sugar-1.06 as the
>installed, currently running version and
>/usr/local/packages/dist/projects/bloggs-plc/sugar-1.06 as the
>canonical distribution (only needed if there is compilation or
>equivalent to be done).
Sounds sensible. With java the source and .class files can live
together quite nicely, so we might not need the dist directory
often (we wont necessary need to distribute the code)...
> > We can get access to generic handlers so long as the
> > classpath includes the central repostitory of generic
> > code.
>
>Yeah, or what I do is make symlinks out of /usr/local/lib/java. For
>some reason I don\'t like PATHs, CLASSPATHs, Perl INCs, C -Is ...
>symlinks let you have these relationships explicit in the filesystem,
>not hidden in some stupid .bash_profile.
There\'s not much option with WebMacro. To find it\'s config file
(WebMacro.properties) and its handlers, they must all be in the
CLASSPATH, as defined in jserv.properties. Similarly for shared
code (such as the org.paneris.util package).
> > If we need to, we can copy the code into each project (but then we
> > would have to worry about multiple versions - ugh).
>
>Yes but if you don\'t do that, then you have to be very disciplined
>about versioning on the libraries and effectively making a new release
>of *all* the libraries every time you make a snapshot of one of the
>projects they depend on. Otherwise things break annoyingly.
Agree. I\'m quite on for that - sticking any common code into a project.
It helps in moving the code (e.g. installing it live). It\'s just
not very nice :-)
>That suggests the following directory structure:
>
>/usr/local everything installed specially on this machine
>/usr/local/packages the bodies of the installed software
>/usr/local/packages/dist ... their distributions, where necessary
>/usr/local/packages/inst ... their actual installations
>/usr/local/packages
>/usr/local/packages/master master copies of our software
>/usr/local/packages/master/cvsroot
> our CVS repository
>/usr/local/packages/master/cvsroot/<library>
> our libraries (source + docs)
>/usr/local/packages/master/cvsroot/projects/<customer>/<project>
> our projects (source + docs)
>/usr/local/packages/inst/paneris/<customer>/<project>-#.##
> installed binaries etc. of a project
OK. As I say, the cvsroot is different at the minute. I\'m assuming that
no-one would have a problem making links, e.g. from /usr/local/sugar
to /usr/local/packages/inst/projects/sugar-#.## (I\'m not really sure we
need the <customer> dir in there...?)
>/usr/local/bin links to the appropriate files in packages/inst
>/usr/local/lib ditto, where necessary
>/usr/local/include etc.
>/etc this machine\'s configuration
>/home stuff specific to particular users
>
>in particular:
>
>/home/httpd links into packages/inst, or
> working copies in developers
> directories
We don\'t need the links from httpd so much since we can alter classpath
and use virtual servers...
[method of working snipped]
To summarise then:
Projects (e.g. sugar)
---------------------
Create the first go and stick it in the CVS repository (where-ever that is -
it shouldn\'t matter) as projects/sugar
Then get (whatever release of it we want) and stick it in
/usr/local/packages/dist/projects/sugar-#.## or
/usr/local/packages/inst/projects/sugar-#.##
The .../dist/... version is only required if we need to do significant compiling
(and I suggest that with Java we don\'t bother - keep the .class files with the
.java and keep it all in the relevant ../inst/.. directory).
For ease, we should set up a link from /usr/local/sugar to ../inst/projects/sugar-#.##
Shared Libraries (e.g. Administration handlers)
-----------------------------------------------
Much the same as above, except we talk about ../paneris/administration
rather than ../projects/sugar.
Similarly for shared code (e.g. org.paneris.utils) where I suggest we use
../paneris/java (or ../paneris/perl)
Comments?
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
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12601,'Fri Mar 19 14:26:33 1999','Re: Re: Re: Sys Admin - where do we put projects',4,12600,'
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> At present the CVS root is /usr/cvsroot. Can we checkout projects/bloggs-plc?
> I was under the impression that you (initially) had to check out
> a top-level module (i.e. projects, nots projects/bloggs-plc). I\'m
> wrong, I assume.
Hmm, it seems to work, except that it can be convenient to use the -d
option to cvs checkout. I think the idea with CVS is that
subdirectories are (sub-)modules in their own right.
> BTW, how do you find out what modules you have in your CVS repository
> using a cvs command (i.e. without cd\'ing over to the repository
> and looking at the directories!)?
You can\'t, can you? Interesting ...
> Sounds sensible. With java the source and .class files can live
> together quite nicely, so we might not need the dist directory
> often (we wont necessary need to distribute the code)...
Actually I hate that. It just clogs things up. When I do
mixed-language programming, I have a Java-style list or tree of
packages, and put all the sources, of whatever language, together. I
have a separate tree for computer-generated sources, if any, and a
separate tree for each kind of object code: Java (and ML) bytecode,
Linux-i586 objects, sunos5-sun4 objects ...
That\'s extremely easy to achieve with the -d option to javac.
Apart from anything else it\'s nice to be able to do
cvs add `find` without having to exclude non-sources
in some ghastly config file.
> Agree. I\'m quite on for that - sticking any common code into a project.
> It helps in moving the code (e.g. installing it live). It\'s just
> not very nice :-)
My feelings too.
However here\'s a "right" way of doing it that *might* not be too
painful: whenever we make a "release" of anything, we do a cvs tag of
the entire repository to ensure recoverability. We get round the
package-copying problem as follows: rather than doing
CLASSPATH=../../administration or whatever, we do
CLASSPATH=dependencies/administration, where dependencies is a
directory containing symbolic links to the libraries we have used.
Of course it\'s not automatic or foolproof ...
> OK. As I say, the cvsroot is different at the minute. I\'m assuming that
> no-one would have a problem making links, e.g. from /usr/local/sugar
> to /usr/local/packages/inst/projects/sugar-#.## (I\'m not really sure we
> need the (customer) dir in there...?)
Nor am I, it was just a thought ...
> We don\'t need the links from httpd so much since we can alter classpath
> and use virtual servers...
I don\'t like classpath or virtual servers, or any kind of environment
variable or configuration file. I think everything should be in the
file system. But that\'s an aesthetic thing.
> For ease, we should set up a link from /usr/local/sugar to ../inst/projects/sugar-#.##
Fine, although if you choose the names right they are very easy to
type with tab completion ...
> Similarly for shared code (e.g. org.paneris.utils) where I suggest we use
> ../paneris/java (or ../paneris/perl)
Well I\'d still rather group everything by functionality. I don\'t want
to see files related to the same library/project, which are
potentially in different languages, split in such a way that they don\'t
have a common root.
We should aim for a situation where "install X" is a matter
of "cp -r X ..." plus running a script to make a few links.
Perhaps we can adopt the Java naming convention for everything,
and put the whole caboodle in
/usr/local/packages/inst/paneris/org/paneris/adminsystem
---*.pm, *.class and *.html etc. etc. etc.
Certainly I feel very strongly that that\'s what we should do with the
*sources*. (Hmmm, I suppose that means that for Java-friendliness we
want to stick org/paneris on the front of everything ... but I\'m on
for that, why not?)
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12602,'Fri Mar 19 14:48:44 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Sys Admin - where do we put projects',2,12601,'
> > Sounds sensible. With java the source and .class files can live
> > together quite nicely, so we might not need the dist directory
> > often (we wont necessary need to distribute the code)...
>Actually I hate that. It just clogs things up. When I do
>mixed-language programming, I have a Java-style list or tree of
>packages, and put all the sources, of whatever language, together. I
>have a separate tree for computer-generated sources, if any, and a
>separate tree for each kind of object code: Java (and ML) bytecode,
>Linux-i586 objects, sunos5-sun4 objects ...
I think that it\'s not too messy if we are only java on a project.
If the project gets more complicated we can organise our source
tress in a more complicated manner.
>Apart from anything else it\'s nice to be able to do
>cvs add `find` without having to exclude non-sources
>in some ghastly config file.
Remember, you don\'t need to bother recompiling java so you
can just copy the .class files over...
> > Agree. I\'m quite on for that - sticking any common code into a project.
> > It helps in moving the code (e.g. installing it live). It\'s just
> > not very nice :-)
>My feelings too.
>However here\'s a "right" way of doing it that *might* not be too
>painful: whenever we make a "release" of anything, we do a cvs tag of
>the entire repository to ensure recoverability. We get round the
>package-copying problem as follows: rather than doing
>CLASSPATH=../../administration or whatever, we do
>CLASSPATH=dependencies/administration, where dependencies is a
>directory containing symbolic links to the libraries we have used.
>Of course it\'s not automatic or foolproof ...
Like that. The main trouble is that we only get one chance to set
the CLASSPATH for JServ, so if we have several copies of the same
classes, I assume we\'ll only ever get the one that appears first
when Java searches the classpath, unless we put them in different
packages...
> > OK. As I say, the cvsroot is different at the minute. I\'m assuming that
> > no-one would have a problem making links, e.g. from /usr/local/sugar
> > to /usr/local/packages/inst/projects/sugar-#.## (I\'m not really sure we
> > need the (customer) dir in there...?)
>Nor am I, it was just a thought ...
Let\'s drop it then.
> > We don\'t need the links from httpd so much since we can alter classpath
> > and use virtual servers...
>I don\'t like classpath or virtual servers, or any kind of environment
>variable or configuration file. I think everything should be in the
>file system. But that\'s an aesthetic thing.
As I say, we can\'t do that for webmacro (have to use classpath) and
the virtual server would help us primarily to separate perl code (again,
I\'m worrying about \'common\' code which might not be totally commmon).
> > Similarly for shared code (e.g. org.paneris.utils) where I suggest we use
> > ../paneris/java (or ../paneris/perl)
>Well I\'d still rather group everything by functionality. I don\'t want
>to see files related to the same library/project, which are
>potentially in different languages, split in such a way that they don\'t
>have a common root.
OK. How about ../paneris/common/java/.. Remember that the code I am talking
about here is not part of any specific project or even library, (e.g. TimJ\'s
own Vector class). Another option might be ../paneris/util/java
(with org/paneris/util/Vector.class etc under it).
>We should aim for a situation where "install X" is a matter
>of "cp -r X ..." plus running a script to make a few links.
Yes.
>Perhaps we can adopt the Java naming convention for everything,
>and put the whole caboodle in
>/usr/local/packages/inst/paneris/org/paneris/adminsystem
>---*.pm, *.class and *.html etc. etc. etc.
Mmmm... That\'s what I was thinking about with Java (my suggestion
boils down to sticking a \'java\' dir between \'paneris\' and \'org\').
>Certainly I feel very strongly that that\'s what we should do with the
>*sources*. (Hmmm, I suppose that means that for Java-friendliness we
>want to stick org/paneris on the front of everything ... but I\'m on
>for that, why not?)
We should certainly do that for stuff in the org.paneris packages, but
many webmacro handlers are not in a package (maybe they should be). I\'m
less convinced about non-java...
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12603,'Fri Mar 19 16:17:28 1999','stop this religious war; was Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sys Admin - where do we put projects',4,12602,'
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> Remember, you don\'t need to bother recompiling java so you
> can just copy the .class files over...
Sorry, I didn\'t make myself very clear ... the point is, in my
source tree (which is also the doc tree) I only want to see things I
have typed in myself. Everything else should go in a parallel tree
well out of the way so that I don\'t have to explicitly exclude all
that .class and .o garbage when I browse directory listings, make
backups, run wildcard cvs add commands, and so on. Java actually
makes that really easy with the -d option.
This is really an issue for one\'s own personal development area, of
course, but it becomes a bit of a public standard because you have to
have support for this separation in your Makefiles (if any).
> Like that. The main trouble is that we only get one chance to set
> the CLASSPATH for JServ, so if we have several copies of the same
> classes, I assume we\'ll only ever get the one that appears first
> when Java searches the classpath, unless we put them in different
> packages...
That\'s not very nice. There was talk when they did marshalling and
RMI of introducing class versioning into Java but it didn\'t seem to go
anywhere ...
I suppose the only thing we can do is be very strict about renaming
packages (changing a version number) whenever the interface changes.
Hopefully the number of "inadvertent" changes that break things badly
will be small enough that we can fix them by hand.
> As I say, we can\'t do that for webmacro (have to use classpath)
What happens if you have a once-set CLASSPATH (at boot time) of
/usr/local/share/java/*, with symlinks out of there to everything you
want to include?
> OK. How about ../paneris/common/java/.. Remember that the code I am talking
> about here is not part of any specific project or even library, (e.g. TimJ\'s
> own Vector class). Another option might be ../paneris/util/java
> (with org/paneris/util/Vector.class etc under it).
Fine, sounds good. `.utils\' is traditional ...
> We should certainly do that for stuff in the org.paneris packages, but
> many webmacro handlers are not in a package (maybe they should be).
yep, definitely
> I\'m less convinced about non-java...
Well I think it\'s nice to put sources in the same directory if they
belong in the same package. Because Java is so uncompromising about
the way it maps package structure onto directory structure, it sort of
forces you to do the same with your other languages if you want to
keep things together.
There are really two cases to think about here.
One is if you have mixed languages because you really do run them
all as part of the same system---for instance if you have C extensions
to Java, or some Perl which acts inextricably as CGI middleware to a
C++ backend, or whatever. Then you may well end up with several
languages in literally the same directory because the sources really
do belong together. If you have
xyzproj/stuff/{*.java,*.pm}
then you simply have a Java package org.paneris.xyzproj.stuff and a
Perl package org::paneris::xyzproj::stuff.
The other case is if you have different subpackages associated with
a project which are implemented in different languages. For instance,
one might have alternative Perl/CGI and Java/servlet interfaces to a
web site. Those might profitably go in different subdirectories of
that project---in
xyzproj/frontend/servlet/*.java
and
xyzproj/frontend/cgi/*.pm
This induces a Java package org.paneris.xyzproj.frontend.servlet and a
Perl package org::paneris::xyzproj::frontend::cgi. Because the two
frontends are different subpackages, you don\'t actually get Java and
Perl sharing a directory, but they do share a tree.
By the way there is also
xyzproj/frontend/servlet/frontPage.template
as well as
xyzproj/frontend/servlet/doc/requirements/index.html, etc.
and probably
xyzproj/frontend/servlet/doc/guide/index.html
xyzproj/frontend/servlet/doc/guide/examples/Example1.java
which induces the package
org.paneris.xyzproj.frontend.servlet.doc.guide.examples
In short I really do mean everything we type in, from Java to Perl to
HTML to GIFs to templates to documentation to documentation examples,
should be filed according to what project and submodule they belong
to.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12604,'Fri Mar 19 17:07:36 1999','Re: stop this religious war; was Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sys Admin - where do we put projects',1,12603,'
> > Like that. The main trouble is that we only get one chance to set
> > the CLASSPATH for JServ, so if we have several copies of the same
> > classes, I assume we\'ll only ever get the one that appears first
> > when Java searches the classpath, unless we put them in different
> > packages...
are we sure about this? jrun allows multiple jvms (at least in the professional version). i\'m sure jserve will have them soon, if not already. without it, you are not going to be able to use jserve on a commercial virtual server machine.
also, i know i have signed up the the jserve mailing list at least twice, is anyone else on it?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12605,'Fri Mar 19 17:26:48 1999','But I\'m only learning... (was Re: stop this religious war;)',2,12603,'
[should .class files live in the same directories as .java files?]
> This is really an issue for one\'s own personal development area, of
>course, but it becomes a bit of a public standard because you have to
>have support for this separation in your Makefiles (if any).
Yep. Let\'s agree on a separation for shared libraries and code, and
then it\'s down to the project leader on a project by project basis.
[one classpath -> different packages for different versions of the same
library code]
> I suppose the only thing we can do is be very strict about renaming
>packages (changing a version number) whenever the interface changes.
>Hopefully the number of "inadvertent" changes that break things badly
>will be small enough that we can fix them by hand.
Yes.
> > As I say, we can\'t do that for webmacro (have to use classpath)
>What happens if you have a once-set CLASSPATH (at boot time) of
>/usr/local/share/java/*, with symlinks out of there to everything you
>want to include?
Like that! Does help help with the webmacro problem, but I like it!
> > OK. How about ../paneris/common/java/.. Remember that the code I am talking
> > about here is not part of any specific project or even library, (e.g. TimJ\'s
> > own Vector class). Another option might be ../paneris/util/java
> > (with org/paneris/util/Vector.class etc under it).
>Fine, sounds good. `.utils\' is traditional ...
../paneris/util/java it is then.
> > We should certainly do that for stuff in the org.paneris packages, but
> > many webmacro handlers are not in a package (maybe they should be).
>yep, definitely
OK. All
[put everything in a module: ends with:]
> xyzproj/frontend/servlet/doc/guide/examples/Example1.java
>which induces the package
> org.paneris.xyzproj.frontend.servlet.doc.guide.examples
>In short I really do mean everything we type in, from Java to Perl to
>HTML to GIFs to templates to documentation to documentation examples,
>should be filed according to what project and submodule they belong
>to.
Whoo! Heavy, man.
OK, I\'m going to re-arrange the sugar project on my machine to get
a proper feel for all this. I\'ll write it up and draft a "how to set
up a new project" doc we can talk about.
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12606,'Fri Mar 19 20:47:54 1999','Re: But I\'m only learning... (was Re: stop this religious war;)',4,12605,'
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> Yep. Let\'s agree on a separation for shared libraries and code, and
> then it\'s down to the project leader on a project by project basis.
I don\'t really understand that and I\'m not convinced we\'re yet on the
same wavelength. However I know I take a very hardline position on
this and ymmv.
> >What happens if you have a once-set CLASSPATH (at boot time) of
> >/usr/local/share/java/*, with symlinks out of there to everything you
> >want to include?
>
> Like that! Does help help with the webmacro problem, but I like it!
although actually "once at boot time" won\'t really do for .jar files,
sorry, what I do on my machine is make "java" (or "kaffe" or whatever)
a wrapper which sets CLASSPATH to .../share/java/* and execs the real
java
> ../paneris/util/java it is then.
shurely .../paneris/org/paneris/util ?
> Whoo! Heavy, man.
What do Tim and Tim think? I reckon TimP is going to like it a lot.
It\'s basically a very simple idea.
<H2>Example</H2>
The CVS comprises a completely unified tree like this:
<PRE>
org/
paneris/
utils/
*.java
*.pm
doc/
requirements/
*.{html,gif}
functional/ ...
...
guide/
*.{html,gif}
*.java (if there were examples in the user guide!)
genericadmin/
doc/ ...
webmacro/
doc/ ...
*.java
perlcgi/
doc/ ...
*.pm
...
projects/
sugar/
doc/ ...
module1/
doc/ ...
*.java
...
http/
doc/ ...
*.{html,gif}
webmacrotemplate/
doc/ ...
*.webmacrotemplate
...
</PRE>
<H2>Motivation</H2>
The idea is an absolutely rigorous division into functional units,
which attempts to achieve the following goals:
<UL>
<LI> things which shouldn\'t be separated, like code and
documentation, are made unlikely to be separated
<LI> things that you might want to cross-refer between are kept near
to each other in consistent and obvious places
<LI> groups of files which might comprise a circumscribed task given
to a developer are kept near each other
<LI> you can run a site (or whatever) directly out of a development
tree checked out of cvs, without having to perform a spurious
"install" step
<LI> making a runnable minimal installation (minus source and docs)
is trivial and foolproof
<LI> Java and Perl sources are located in places which are
consistent with the package-to-directory mappings made by those
languages
</UL>
These aims aren\'t completely compatible with each other, but they
are mostly served by the following meta-goal: for any given operation
on the sources, there is a directory (or subtree) which contains all
and only those files. The directory structure you end up with depends
on which operations you feel require the most support from it.
For instance, I reckon that it\'s better to support operations over
each module\'s sources and documentation (like copy them, search and
replace in them, cvs commit them, ...) than operations over all
sources and operations over all documentation. That is why I propose
a structure {module1,module2}/{src,doc} rather than
{src,doc}/{module1,module2}.
<H2>Details</H2>
All the code for all the languages we use goes in the same tree,
inducing an identical package namespace in Java, Perl and C++ (and
eventually ML). If some packages are programmed in two languages then
there are simply two kinds of source in the corresponding directory.
Also in the same tree goes documentation (project docs and code
docs), HTML, templates, test data, any scripts needed for initialising
a database, backing up a site\'s data, etc. The functional unit rule
still holds: for instance, all the documentation lives in a
subdirectory under the project (or code module, or whatever) which it
documents.
<H3>Htdocs are perhaps different</H3>
"But," you will say, "if we want the installation directory
structure to mirror roughly the development directory structure, we
will end up with URLs like http://project.server/submodule/foo.html
rather than just http://project.server/foo.html". Tough titty.
"Furthermore," you will continue, "having a structure like
<TT>
project/module1/Thing.java
project/module1/Thing-form.html
project/module2/Other.java
project/module2/Other-acknowledgement.html
</TT>
along strictly modular lines rather than
<TT>
project/module1/Thing.java
project/module2/Other.java
project/http/module1/Thing-form.html
project/http/module2/Other-acknowledgement.html
</TT>
means that if we simply point the web server at the development
directory, the sources (and documentation, ...) will be accessible
over HTTP."
This is a real objection, and I think in this case we have to say
that the latter is better. I don\'t see any other way of achieving the
two important aims of (1) being able to run the site directly out of a
development tree, without having to do a spurious "install" step every
time we change some HTML, and (2) having a trivial and foolproof
installation procedure that relies only on where things are put in the
development tree and not on lots of special knowledge encoded in
Makefiles or scripts.
Essentially the operations "present the project\'s development HTML
files to the browser" and "install this project\'s development HTML
files" are so important as to override the grouping suggested by the
other things we want to do with sources.
In any case I suppose it\'s not necessarily true that the structure
of the http-visible files consistently follows that of the software
behind the site.
<H2>Source/object separation</H2>
Where there is compilation to be done, we support the possibility
of compiling into a completely separate directory tree from the source
tree checked out of CVS (that\'s a noop with Perl and trivial with
Java). I find this just makes life much easier once it\'s up and
running. Again, where you have separate .class files, let alone
separate .o/.obj files for different architectures, it makes
installing them without the sources even more trivial than it would be
otherwise.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12607,'Fri Mar 19 20:59:49 1999','Re: But I\'m only learning... (was Re: stop this religious war;)',34,12605,'
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> Yep. Let\'s agree on a separation for shared libraries and code, and
> then it\'s down to the project leader on a project by project basis.
I don\'t really understand that and I\'m not convinced we\'re yet on the
same wavelength. However I know I take a very hardline position on
this and ymmv.
> >What happens if you have a once-set CLASSPATH (at boot time) of
> >/usr/local/share/java/*, with symlinks out of there to everything you
> >want to include?
>
> Like that! Does help help with the webmacro problem, but I like it!
although actually "once at boot time" won\'t really do for .jar files,
sorry, what I do on my machine is make "java" (or "kaffe" or whatever)
a wrapper which sets CLASSPATH to .../share/java/* and execs the real
java
> ../paneris/util/java it is
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12608,'Mon Mar 22 8:18:48 1999','Re: Re: But I\'m only learning... (was Re: stop this religious war;)',1,12606,'
> What do Tim and Tim think? I reckon TimP is going to like it a lot.
timj likes it too.
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12609,'Mon Mar 22 13:29:32 1999','ganesh rebooted march 16?',4,0,'
anyone know why ganesh was rebooted on march 16?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12610,'Mon Mar 22 13:41:26 1999','Re: ganesh rebooted march 16?',1,12609,'
>anyone know why ganesh was rebooted on march 16?
no, u want me to call i-way and find out, or is the question simply fyi?
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12611,'Mon Mar 22 14:47:37 1999','Re: ganesh rebooted march 16?',2,12609,'
>anyone know why ganesh was rebooted on march 16?
No. I found that NeLH, another machine hosted by I-way
had been rebooted at some point with no explanation as
well...
myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12612,'Tue Mar 30 11:34:59 1999','problems connecting',1,0,'
i had problems getting to ganesh at 11.28 BST 30/03/1999 using pop3 and ftp (http was ok, telnet untried).
11.30 it was back.
anyone else notice this?
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12613,'Wed Apr 7 18:31:35 1999','Re: Re: Re: But I\'m only learning... (was Re: stop this religious war;)',3,12608,'
>> What do Tim and Tim think? I reckon TimP is going to like it a lot.
I do like William\'s approach.
I am having difficulties really getting to grips with the
counter-argument. So don\'t feel that I can make specific
comments.
I hope at some point in the future to see us using
SGML to differentiate between a webpages content and
the particular output we are going to serve to a user,
so differentating between human written and machine generated
seems essential.
I do know that I will have problems mirroring panerisII on
a Win32 machine if we use sym-links, but that will be a small
price to pay for all the benefits.
yours
TimP
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12614,'Fri Apr 9 21:14:58 1999','Done it!',2,12605,'
>OK, I\'m going to re-arrange the sugar project on my machine to get
>a proper feel for all this. I\'ll write it up and draft a "how to set
>up a new project" doc we can talk about.
>Myles
Better than that! I\'ve pulled together this thread into a document:
<a href="/system/newbox/development.html">File Organisation for
Paneris Development</a>. It covers our module heirarchy, cvs, file
system organisation and working practices for development.
I have also applied it to ganesh, re-organising as required. I
have written this up as an example of how to install a new project.
Comments?
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
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12615,'Fri Apr 9 22:02:57 1999','Re: Done it!',4,12614,'
> Comments?
Majestic! I think it\'s looking damn good.
Heartfelt thanks from me and I think from all of us?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12616,'Mon Apr 12 12:56:11 1999','Re: Done it!',3,12614,'
>Comments?
Very well done.
TimP
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12617,'Tue Apr 13 9:20:03 1999','slightly disturbing',1,12614,'
I\'m not normally a sensitive kind of guy, but when you are trying to get to grips with something new, there are some error messages you just don\'t need.
any idea what I am doing wrong (I am using jcvs "test connection" utility), this is what it says :(
I will fight on (as none of you are likely to get up for about 5 hours)
======================== CVSClient.processCVSRequest ========================
Command: noop
Repository:
CVSServer: 2401@paneris.org
RootDirectory:
LocalDirectory:
Connect Method: INETD
Rsh Command: null
Server Command: (not applicable)
isPServer? \'true \' user \'timj\' pass \'A{y 4u0 0\'
There are no user set variables.
NumEntries: 0
NumArguments: 0 GlobalOptions: 0
redirectOutput \'false\' execInCurDir \'true \'
sendEntries \'false\' sendEntryfiles \'false\'
sendModifieds \'false\' sendEmptyMods \'false\'
sendArguments \'false\' ignoreResult \'false\'
sendModule \'false\' allowOverWrites \'false\'
displayReponse \'false\' handleUpdated \'false\'
handleMerged \'false\' handleCopyFile \'false\'
handleEntries \'false\' handleFlags \'false\'
queueResponse \'true \' responseHandler \'null \'
includeNotifies \'false\' notifiesSize \'null\'
*****************************************************************************
CVSRequest: opening server...
CVSClient.openServer: creating connection...
CVSClient.openServer: creating i/o streams...
CVSClient.openServer: server is open.
CVSRequest: server is open.
AUTHENTICATE: verifyOnly? \'false\' userName \'timj\' password \'A{y 4u0 0\'
CVSClient.SENDLine: \'BEGIN AUTH REQUEST\'
CVSClient.SENDLine: \'\'
CVSClient.SENDLine: \'timj\'
CVSClient.SENDLine: \'A{y 4u0 0\'
CVSClient.SENDLine: \'END AUTH REQUEST\'
CVSClient.READLine: \'I HATE YOU\'
AUTHENTICATE: REPLY: \'I HATE YOU\'
CVSClient.buildErrorReponse: The CVS Request failed.
Failed authentication with the user name \'timj\'.
I HATE YOU
The CVS Request failed.
Failed authentication with the user name \'timj\'.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12618,'Tue Apr 13 11:48:38 1999','Re: Done it!',1,12614,'
cool.
I have added a dbadmin alias to cvs.
can you tell me what cvs release does. do i need to release every checkout i make?
I am now going to get dbadmin and sugar working on win32 with the new structure. I imagine that 0.85 with the new template \'classpath\' and subclassing wmservlet should allow me to do this.
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12619,'Tue Apr 13 12:39:57 1999','Re: Re: Done it!',2,12618,'
>cool.
>I have added a dbadmin alias to cvs.
>can you tell me what cvs release does. do i need to release every checkout i make?
cvs release is meant to tell the cvs system that you no longer
wish to work the files that you have previously checked out.
if you use \'cvs release -d myproj\' it will delete the directories
containing your work.
Usually you would only release when you have finished with that
project for a while. For instance, with Iglu you would probably
have checked out the project and not released it for a couple of
months.
Basically, you do need to release each checkout, but only eventually.
I don\'t think it will hurt too much to never release something...
>I am now going to get dbadmin and sugar working on win32 with the new structure. I imagine that 0.85 with the new template \'classpath\' and subclassing wmservlet should allow me to do this.
>timj
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12620,'Tue Apr 13 13:29:02 1999','Re: Re: Re: Done it!',4,12619,'
> Basically, you do need to release each checkout, but only eventually.
> I don\'t think it will hurt too much to never release something...
Yep, it explicitly says it\'s not strictly necessary.
<UL><I>
This command is meant to safely cancel the effect of `cvs checkout\'.
Since CVS doesn\'t lock files, it isn\'t strictly necessary to use this
command. You can always simply delete your working directory, if you
like; but you risk losing changes you may have forgotten, and you leave
no trace in the CVS history file (*note history file::.) that you\'ve
abandoned your checkout.
Use `cvs release\' to avoid these problems. This command checks that
no uncommitted changes are present; that you are executing it from
immediately above a CVS working directory; and that the repository
recorded for your files is the same as the repository defined in the
module database.
If all these conditions are true, `cvs release\' leaves a record of
its execution (attesting to your intentionally abandoning your
checkout) in the CVS history log.
</I></UL>
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12621,'Tue Apr 13 13:42:06 1999','Re: slightly disturbing',4,12617,'
>CVSClient.READLine: \'I HATE YOU\'
>AUTHENTICATE: REPLY: \'I HATE YOU\'
It just means "authentication failure". You are meant to
use your normal Unix password.
<UL><I>
The possible
server responses (each of which is followed by a linefeed) are the
following. Note that although there is a small similarity between
this authentication protocol and the cvs protocol, they are
separate.
<UL><LI>
`I LOVE YOU\'
The authentication is successful. The client proceeds with
the cvs protocol itself.
<LI>
`I HATE YOU\'
The authentication fails. After sending this response, the
server may close the connection. It is up to the server to
decide whether to give this response, which is generic, or a
more specific response using `E\' and/or `error\'.
</UL></UL>
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12622,'Tue Apr 13 13:56:01 1999','Re: Re: slightly disturbing',1,12621,'
>>CVSClient.READLine: \'I HATE YOU\'
>>AUTHENTICATE: REPLY: \'I HATE YOU\'
>It just means "authentication failure".
i appreciated that. it just made me feel crap :)
>You are meant to
>use your normal Unix password.
I am doing so. Anyone else got a remote cvs client running successfully?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12623,'Tue Apr 13 15:18:44 1999','Re: Re: Re: slightly disturbing',4,12622,'
> Anyone else got a remote cvs client running successfully?
It works for me (alarmingly it even works with root and the
root password, which I am sure is a bit dodgy). I haven\'t
tried the Java client, of course. Have you tried any
native clients?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12624,'Tue Apr 13 20:07:57 1999','paths to templates',1,0,'
i feel VERY STRONGLY that the path to the templates in our handlers should be
/project/templates/template.wm
this would be a change from the current
/project/template.wm
the reason for this is that for us on win32, it would mean that we don\'t have to move _any_ files around to get our project tree (from cvs) to run on our servers (apart from compiling .java files).
i appreciate that on linux symlinks are all the rage and so you won\'t have to move files, but we don\'t have that luxury. I genuinely feel that the bennefit in terms of development simplicity outways the "unnecessary" additional 10 characters in the handlers.
i hope that allowing me to feel comfortable with my development environment is important enough to you guys for you to consider options other than a strict sysadmin\'s solution (write a script to move the files each time you do a checkout/commit).
:)
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12625,'Tue Apr 13 21:18:33 1999','Re: paths to templates',4,12624,'
>i feel VERY STRONGLY that the path to the templates in our handlers should be
>/project/templates/template.wm
>this would be a change from the current
>/project/template.wm
I don\'t understand your point about symlinks (probably
because I have never used webmacro) but I thought the
above was what we had actually agreed on already?
And it\'s certainly how sugar is organised in the CVS:
[williamc@ganesh williamc]$ ls /usr/cvsroot/org/paneris/sugar/templates/
Categories.wm,v Company.wm,v UploadResults.wm,v
Companies.wm,v Upload.wm,v
So you are pushing on an open door here!
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12626,'Tue Apr 13 23:58:29 1999','Re: Re: paths to templates',3,12625,'
>So you are pushing on an open door here!
yup, hooray.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12627,'Wed Apr 14 7:46:33 1999','Re: Re: paths to templates',1,12625,'
>I don\'t understand your point about symlinks (probably
>because I have never used webmacro)
symlinks are used to map
templates/project/
to
project/templates/
>So you are pushing on an open door here!
good, I am slightly concerned that i have misrepresented things, but I can\'t see why, and I\'m sure chippy will chip in.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12628,'Wed Apr 14 12:26:34 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: slightly disturbing',1,12623,'
>It works for me (alarmingly it even works with root and the
>root password, which I am sure is a bit dodgy). I haven\'t
>tried the Java client, of course. Have you tried any
>native clients?
I have tried wincvs version 1.06. Still can\'t login as timj or root. perhaps i am getting something wrong, this is what i get in wincvs:
NEW CVSROOT: timj@paneris.org:/CVSROOT (password authentication)
cvs login
(Logging in to timj@paneris.org)
cvs [login aborted]: authorization failed: server paneris.org rejected access
*****CVS exited normally with code 1*****
Is the CVSROOT bit correct?
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12629,'Wed Apr 14 12:32:11 1999','Re: Re: Re: paths to templates',2,12627,'
All,
We have definitely got the templates in ../sugar/templates. The
issue is about how we refer to them in the handlers. I prefer
the current "project/template.wm" but TimJ would prefer
"project/templates/template.wm" so that he doesn\'t have to do
an extra install step of moving the templates into a directory
(in the TemplatePath) called "sugar". That seemed to me a bad
reason to alter the code, but then I\'ve got the luxury of running
Linux (and can easily make a symlink).
Myles
>>I don\'t understand your point about symlinks (probably
>>because I have never used webmacro)
>symlinks are used to map
>templates/project/
>to
>project/templates/
>>So you are pushing on an open door here!
>good, I am slightly concerned that i have misrepresented things, but I can\'t see why, and I\'m sure chippy will chip in.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12630,'Wed Apr 14 12:44:50 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: slightly disturbing',2,12628,'
>NEW CVSROOT: timj@paneris.org:/CVSROOT (password authentication)
>cvs login
>(Logging in to timj@paneris.org)
>cvs [login aborted]: authorization failed: server paneris.org rejected access
>*****CVS exited normally with code 1*****
>
>Is the CVSROOT bit correct?
No. Use /usr/cvsroot
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12631,'Wed Apr 14 13:45:39 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: slightly disturbing',1,12630,'
>No. Use /usr/cvsroot
\'I LOVE YOU\'
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12632,'Wed Apr 14 14:58:50 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: paths to templates',1,12629,'
At 01:28 PM 4/14/99 +0100, William Chesters wrote:
>multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> > New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/newbox/messages/138.shtml
> >
> > Subject: Re: Re: Re: paths to templates
> > From: Myles (mylesc@paneris.org) (194.112.47.112)
> >
> > All,
> >
> > We have definitely got the templates in ../sugar/templates. The
> > issue is about how we refer to them in the handlers. I prefer
> > the current "project/template.wm" but TimJ would prefer
> > "project/templates/template.wm" so that he doesn\'t have to do
> > an extra install step of moving the templates into a directory
> > (in the TemplatePath) called "sugar".
>
>I\'m with TimJ on this one---the idea is that the directory structure
>is the "package" structure, even for non-code files, and the same
>structure is maintained in our installation directories, with a very
>few exceptions. Those exceptions are specifically aimed at making it
>possible to serve non-compiled content straight out of a working
>directory. But in this case there is no conflict: the tidy thing is
>also the convenient thing, so it seems positively perverse not to do
>it even if it makes some of the names slightly longer.
Well that\'s fair enough then.
>In any case I hope Chippy wasn\'t proposing hardwiring the directory
>name into 1000 different places in the source :) ?
This confuses me. We have to hardwire the directory name in the
source where-ever we load in a template anyway, don\'t we? Oh, are
you saying that we don\'t have to do that 1000 times, just 10?
Certainly true.
>If we want to start changing the structure of the namespace between
>the working (dist) side and the inst side then we can make scripts to
>do the necessary mappings ... (that\'s supposed to frighten everyone
>off the idea).
>
>(Sorry about email, just fed up with Netscape eating all my memory.)
Myles
______________________________________________________
Myles Chippendale - mylesc@paneris.org
Net Worker
MJ Chippendale Solutions
77 Hurst Street - 01865 791078
Oxford OX4 1HA
http://www.paneris.co.uk/mylesc.html
Proud to be part of the Paneris collective
http://www.paneris.co.uk/
______________________________________________________
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12633,'Wed Apr 14 15:01:21 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: paths to templates',1,12632,'
(this one really is from me)
>>In any case I hope Chippy wasn\'t proposing hardwiring the directory
>>name into 1000 different places in the source :) ?
>
>This confuses me. We have to hardwire the directory name in the
>source where-ever we load in a template anyway, don\'t we? Oh, are
>you saying that we don\'t have to do that 1000 times, just 10?
>Certainly true.
Also a little confused, the directory needs to be in the code as we require \'namespace\' for our templates. Although we can have multiple template directories (specified like a classpath), it doesn\'t really help as we need the following:
project1/templates/contactform.wm
project2/templates/contactform.wm
in production this may not be absolutely necessary as each site is likely to run under it\'s own vm (and therefor have it\'s own template path), but we havn\'t really made this desision yet.
at present we ahave a more-or-less 1:1 relationship between handlers and templates. this will not always hold; a handler may be required to return a different template depending on which project we are. This gets even more complex for the paneris2 site as we will probably write our own template loader that zips up a template tree (like the www.paneris.co.uk)
In fact I now think that we need our own template loader anyway, that does something like the following:
1) look for the template specific to the current project and return it if found
2) otherwise return from a generic template directory
in our handlers, we would then only specify the template name (and no path whatsoever). which is correct.
conclusion: org.webmacro.PanerisTemplateLoader (not sure this is the right name) to be written, and project/templates/template.wm to be used in the meantime.
phew
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12634,'Wed Apr 14 15:37:32 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: paths to templates',4,12632,'
>At 01:28 PM 4/14/99 +0100, William Chesters wrote:
>>In any case I hope Chippy wasn\'t proposing hardwiring the directory
>>name into 1000 different places in the source :) ?
>This confuses me. We have to hardwire the directory name in the
>source where-ever we load in a template anyway, don\'t we? Oh, are
>you saying that we don\'t have to do that 1000 times, just 10?
>Certainly true.
Traditional "good practice" would be to put the directory
name in precisely once in a named constant ... however I\'m
not seriously suggesting that.
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12635,'Wed Apr 14 16:01:45 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: paths to templates',2,12634,'
>>At 01:28 PM 4/14/99 +0100, William Chesters wrote:
>>>In any case I hope Chippy wasn\'t proposing hardwiring the directory
>>>name into 1000 different places in the source :) ?
>>This confuses me. We have to hardwire the directory name in the
>>source where-ever we load in a template anyway, don\'t we? Oh, are
>>you saying that we don\'t have to do that 1000 times, just 10?
>>Certainly true.
>Traditional "good practice" would be to put the directory
>name in precisely once in a named constant ... however I\'m
>not seriously suggesting that.
I think we should do that, though. At present we have a \'db.properties\' file
which sets details about the database for each project. It seems natural
that we should make this a \'projects.properties\' file and include extra
information including the path to the templates for that project.
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12636,'Sun Apr 18 15:46:42 1999','security upgrade, again',4,0,'
This time rsync
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12637,'Mon Apr 19 10:17:46 1999','pop3',1,0,'
pop3 not working for me on ganesh, anyone else having problems?
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12638,'Mon Apr 19 11:21:37 1999','Re: pop3',2,12637,'
>pop3 not working for me on ganesh, anyone else having problems?
>timj
It\'s fine for me.
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12639,'Mon Apr 19 13:54:43 1999','Re: Re: pop3',1,12638,'
>>pop3 not working for me on ganesh, anyone else having problems?
>>timj
>It\'s fine for me.
>Myles
and me now.
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12640,'Mon Apr 19 22:51:57 1999','webmacro update',1,0,'
Chippy,
I have fixed the problems in upload.java, and updated cvs and checked back out to update paneris.org
This is where I have got stuck
I have added /usr/local/webmacro/examples to the classpath so that the test servelts can run, but I don\'t understand how you have set the template sym link, at present, /usr/local/share/tempaltes/sugar contains all the templates for sugar, whereas they should be in /usr/local/share/tempaltes/sugar/templates
can you take a look please.
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12641,'Tue Apr 20 14:39:40 1999','Re: webmacro update',2,12640,'
>Chippy,
>I have fixed the problems in upload.java, and updated cvs and checked back out to update paneris.org
>This is where I have got stuck
>I have added /usr/local/webmacro/examples to the classpath so that the test servelts can run, but I don\'t understand how you have set the template sym link, at present, /usr/local/share/tempaltes/sugar contains all the templates for sugar, whereas they should be in /usr/local/share/tempaltes/sugar/templates
>can you take a look please.
>timj
/usr/local/share/templates/sugar was pointing to .../inst/.../sugar/templates
rather than .../inst/.../sugar
I have fixed this now.
Myles
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12642,'Thu Apr 22 11:15:47 1999','spec for paneris calendar / messageboards etc',1,0,'
I\'m sure you\'ve been there, but:
http://www.egroups.com/
appear to have it mostly correct. I think if we can build an opensource version of their sw, we will have done ok.
timj
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12643,'Sun May 9 10:55:01 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: paths to templates',4,12629,'Posted on behalf of WilliamC by TimP
I\'m with TimJ on this one---the idea is that the directory structure
is the "package" structure, even for non-code files, and the same
structure is maintained in our installation directories, with a very
few exceptions. Those exceptions are specifically aimed at making it
possible to serve non-compiled content straight out of a working
directory. But in this case there is no conflict: the tidy thing is
also the convenient thing, so it seems positively perverse not to do
it even if it makes some of the names slightly longer.
In any case I hope Chippy wasn\'t proposing hardwiring the directory
name into 1000 different places in the source :) ?
If we want to start changing the structure of the namespace between
the working (dist) side and the inst side then we can make scripts to
do the necessary mappings ... (that\'s supposed to frighten everyone
off the idea).
(Sorry about email, just fed up with Netscape eating all my memory.)
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12644,'Sun May 9 10:56:18 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: paths to templates',2,12643,'Posted on behalf of MylesC by TimP
At 01:28 PM 4/14/99 +0100, William Chesters wrote:
>multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> > New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/newbox/messages/138.shtml
> >
> > Subject: Re: Re: Re: paths to templates
> > From: Myles (mylesc@paneris.org) (194.112.47.112)
> >
> > All,
> >
> > We have definitely got the templates in ../sugar/templates. The
> > issue is about how we refer to them in the handlers. I prefer
> > the current "project/template.wm" but TimJ would prefer
> > "project/templates/template.wm" so that he doesn\'t have to do
> > an extra install step of moving the templates into a directory
> > (in the TemplatePath) called "sugar".
>
>I\'m with TimJ on this one---the idea is that the directory structure
>is the "package" structure, even for non-code files, and the same
>structure is maintained in our installation directories, with a very
>few exceptions. Those exceptions are specifically aimed at making it
>possible to serve non-compiled content straight out of a working
>directory. But in this case there is no conflict: the tidy thing is
>also the convenient thing, so it seems positively perverse not to do
>it even if it makes some of the names slightly longer.
Well that\'s fair enough then.
>In any case I hope Chippy wasn\'t proposing hardwiring the directory
>name into 1000 different places in the source :) ?
This confuses me. We have to hardwire the directory name in the
source where-ever we load in a template anyway, don\'t we? Oh, are
you saying that we don\'t have to do that 1000 times, just 10?
Certainly true.
>If we want to start changing the structure of the namespace between
>the working (dist) side and the inst side then we can make scripts to
>do the necessary mappings ... (that\'s supposed to frighten everyone
>off the idea).
>
>(Sorry about email, just fed up with Netscape eating all my memory.)
Myles
______________________________________________________
Myles Chippendale - mylesc@paneris.org
Net Worker
MJ Chippendale Solutions
77 Hurst Street - 01865 791078
Oxford OX4 1HA
http://www.paneris.co.uk/mylesc.html
Proud to be part of the Paneris collective
http://www.paneris.co.uk/
______________________________________________________
','f','',159,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
160,'quality','Paneris quality List',8160,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/quality/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/quality/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12645,'Sat Nov 7 1:55:03 1998','Ideas on what docs should contain',4,0,'
Get a load of the crap I can write :)
http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/quality/index.html
There are ideas on why we want all these docs and on
what the first few in each project should contain.
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12646,'Sat Nov 7 9:51:28 1998','Here are reasons why we need bureaucratic documentation even though not everyone is really convinced! ',1,0,'
I felt that we all agreed that documentation was important. There was no real resistance in this area.
Incedentally, thinking about PanerisII:
Jen and me have just started thinking about a project for local businesses. It is her baby, so when we started to chat about it, we found it very useful to define our roles (Jen - Customer, Me - consultant). It went smoothly with both of us comfortable in familia roles.
Should we do something like this for panerisII? (at least for the planning stage?)
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12647,'Sat Nov 7 16:11:02 1998','Re: Here are reasons why we need bureaucratic documentation even though not everyone is really convinced! ',4,12646,'
>Should we do something like this for panerisII? (at least for the planning stage?)
Sounds nice, can you expand?
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12648,'Mon Nov 9 19:07:14 1998','Excellent documentation document',3,0,'
William,
your document <a href=\'http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/quality/WhyHaveDocs.shtml\'>Why have so much documentation?</a>
is a masterpiece.
I really can\'t think of anything to add or modify.
yours
timP
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12649,'Fri Nov 13 12:07:28 1998','hello',4,0,'
excellent stuff about customer\'s existing data
but have moved it from requirements spec to functional
spec
for paneris 2 we want a record of who made what changes
(of course will come for free with CVS)
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12650,'Tue Nov 17 20:36:33 1998','Quality Plan ',3,0,'
The Quality Plan might be a better name for the Project Plan.
I will write the words and update the document, but thought I might need to explain.
The point about introducing Quality Management to a
a production process is that one is inventing a Deity,
a notional third person, who may visit in the flesh, but to whom
both the client and the provider can refer, and sometimes even apeal.
I was told, by Chippy, that the way to write essays is:
<ul>
<li>Say what you are going to say
<li>Say it
<li>Say what you have said
</ul>
Similarly with a Quality Plan:
<ul>
<li>Say what you are going to do
<li>Do it
<li>Say what you have done
</ul>
Hence a quality plan for a Paneris Project
says which of our <em>Project documents</em>
we are going to produce, and how we are going to
show that we have produced them.
The quality plan therefore is the first document to be produced
after the Proposal has been accepted.
I hope this makes sense and is acceptable, as I am going to
write the words now.
Will update the document tommorrow.
yours
timP
','f','',160,0,0);
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12651,'Tue Nov 17 21:38:33 1998','Re: Quality Plan ',1,12650,'
>The Quality Plan might be a better name for the Project Plan.
a project plan is an implementation plan really, it details what order we are going to do things, the timetable, and who is going to do them, it will also contain notes about the development environment etc.
>I will write the words and update the document, but thought I might need to explain.
>The point about introducing Quality Management to a
>a production process is that one is inventing a Deity,
>a notional third person, who may visit in the flesh, but to whom
>both the client and the provider can refer, and sometimes even apeal.
>I was told, by Chippy, that the way to write essays is:
><ul>
><li>Say what you are going to say
><li>Say it
><li>Say what you have said
></ul>
cool, now why didn\'t they teach us that as school.
>Hence a quality plan for a Paneris Project
>says which of our <em>Project documents</em>
>we are going to produce, and how we are going to
>show that we have produced them.
i understand.
>The quality plan therefore is the first document to be produced
>after the Proposal has been accepted.
>I hope this makes sense and is acceptable, as I am going to
>write the words now.
>Will update the document tommorrow.
cool, can we therefor rename the project plan an implementation plan.
TimJ
','f','',160,0,0);
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12652,'Wed Nov 18 11:27:11 1998','Re: Re: Quality Plan ',4,12651,'
>cool, can we therefor rename the project plan an implementation plan.
yes, I\'ve always wanted to do that :)
','f','',160,0,0);
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12653,'Fri Nov 27 11:33:31 1998','Costs',2,0,'
I\'ve been using the project lifecycle docs for a new
project and they state
"The customer signs off the requirements spec. From here
on they must be paying money (if they aren\'t already)."
This implies that the project has been costed at this point,
whereas I have previous created both the Functional spec
and Implementation plan before talking about costs. This
could well be because they are smaller projects - I can imagine
that we would want money to do a functional spec at the
level of Oyster\'s Iglu spec we would want money up front.
Also, at the Functional spec meeting customers "are encouraged
to play with the skeleton". This seems to imply that creating
the functional spec is like the pilot stage (create the skeleton
site).
I would appreciate people\'s comments on this situation.
I suggest that we don\'t really want to mix the definitions of
documents with the meetings needed to ensure smooth running of
the project - they should be two docs.
BTW, thanks william and TimP. These docs are a great way to get
a handle on a project (just like they were meant to be :-)
Myles
','f','',160,0,0);
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12654,'Fri Nov 27 11:39:27 1998','Re: Re: Re: Quality Plan ',2,12652,'
There is still no words in the ProjectDocs about
Quality plans. This would be very useful.
','f','',160,0,0);
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12655,'Fri Nov 27 11:40:03 1998','Re: Re: Re: Quality Plan ',2,12652,'
There is still no words in the ProjectDocs about
Quality plans. This would be very useful.
','f','',160,0,0);
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12656,'Fri Nov 27 14:26:55 1998','Re: Costs',1,12653,'
>I\'ve been using the project lifecycle docs for a new
>project and they state
> on they must be paying money (if they aren\'t already)."
>This implies that the project has been costed at this point,
> "The customer signs off the requirements spec. From here
>whereas I have previous created both the Functional spec
>and Implementation plan before talking about costs. This
>could well be because they are smaller projects - I can imagine
>that we would want money to do a functional spec at the
>level of Oyster\'s Iglu spec we would want money up front.
In the past I have called the requirements spec "the proposal", and included costs. You then negociate a price, and the requirements until you have a deal. If you need to draft out other docs as part of the requirements spec (in order to better calculate costs), it is not a problem, and will simply make life easier further down the line).
>Also, at the Functional spec meeting customers "are encouraged
>to play with the skeleton". This seems to imply that creating
>the functional spec is like the pilot stage (create the skeleton
>site).
yep, seems fiar (we used to call this "prototype stage" - skeletong and graphic design)
>I would appreciate people\'s comments on this situation.
>I suggest that we don\'t really want to mix the definitions of
>documents with the meetings needed to ensure smooth running of
>the project - they should be two docs.
?two docs - don\'t follow?
I also feel that we are not making it clear that "meetings" are not necessarily actual face-to face events, but rather a process of discussion and exchange concerning the documents (which may sometimes be face-to-face).
TimJ
','f','',160,0,0);
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12657,'Fri Nov 27 15:21:34 1998','Re: Re: Costs',2,12656,'
>>I\'ve been using the project lifecycle docs for a new
>>project and they state
>> "The customer signs off the requirements spec. From here
>> on they must be paying money (if they aren\'t already)."
>>This implies that the project has been costed at this point,
>>whereas I have previous created both the Functional spec
>>and Implementation plan before talking about costs. This
>>could well be because they are smaller projects - I can imagine
>>that we would want money to do a functional spec at the
>>level of Oyster\'s Iglu spec we would want money up front.
>In the past I have called the requirements spec "the proposal",
>and included costs. You then negociate a price, and the
>requirements until you have a deal. If you need to draft
>out other docs as part of the requirements spec (in order
>to better calculate costs), it is not a problem, and will
>simply make life easier further down the line).
Looking more closely, the document says that part of the point of
the functional spec is for the project leader to feel happy
about the costings (and this happens after the "requirements meeting"
at which point we should be being paid!).
I suggest that we move the implementation plan to be between the
requirements document and the requirements meeting, and that costs
should be included as part the implementation plan, where I feel
they belong. How does that sound?
>>Also, at the Functional spec meeting customers "are encouraged
>>to play with the skeleton". This seems to imply that creating
>>the functional spec is like the pilot stage (create the skeleton
>>site).
>yep, seems fiar (we used to call this "prototype stage" - skeletong and graphic design)
Which, again, suggests that we need to have decided the implementation
plan (which will include stages such as "prototype" and "build" stages")
before we start on the functional spec proper. Well, we must
have at least decided the first draft of the implementation plan...
>>I would appreciate people\'s comments on this situation.
>>I suggest that we don\'t really want to mix the definitions of
>>documents with the meetings needed to ensure smooth running of
>>the project - they should be two docs.
>?two docs - don\'t follow?
I was thinking of having one document describing the documents we
need to produce and other to document the meetings (which will often
be copied straight into the implementation plan?) but I\'m not
sure we need that now.
>I also feel that we are not making it clear that "meetings" are
>not necessarily actual face-to face events, but rather a process
>of discussion and exchange concerning the documents (which may
>sometimes be face-to-face).
Good point.
>TimJ
Myles
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12658,'Fri Nov 27 15:47:55 1998','Re: Re: Re: Costs',1,12657,'
>Looking more closely, the document says that part of the point of
>the functional spec is for the project leader to feel happy
>about the costings
yep, \'feel happy with\' means: confirming your earlier quote/estimate. if you have gone badly wrong, you will want to reapproach the customer.
(and this happens after the "requirements meeting"
>at which point we should be being paid!).
well, we will have a commitment (and invoiced for between 25 and 50%).
>I suggest that we move the implementation plan to be between the
>requirements document and the requirements meeting, and that costs
>should be included as part the implementation plan, where I feel
>they belong. How does that sound?
no, you don\'t want to go to far until you have agreed the costs. also how can you do an implementation plan with no requirements.
>>>Also, at the Functional spec meeting customers "are encouraged
>>>to play with the skeleton". This seems to imply that creating
>>>the functional spec is like the pilot stage (create the skeleton
>>>site).
>>yep, seems fiar (we used to call this "prototype stage" - skeletong and graphic design)
>Which, again, suggests that we need to have decided the implementation
>plan (which will include stages such as "prototype" and "build" stages")
>before we start on the functional spec proper. Well, we must
>have at least decided the first draft of the implementation plan...
agreed, it does appear to be very early to introduce a prototype, perhaps it should happen after the implementation plan.
TimJ
','f','',160,0,0);
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12659,'Fri Nov 27 18:29:48 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Costs',2,12658,'
>>Looking more closely, the document says that part of the point of
>>the functional spec is for the project leader to feel happy
>>about the costings
>yep, \'feel happy with\' means: confirming your earlier quote/estimate.
>if you have gone badly wrong, you will want to reapproach the customer.
>>(and this happens after the "requirements meeting"
>>at which point we should be being paid!).
>well, we will have a commitment (and invoiced for between 25 and 50%).
OK, so the project starts when things are agreed at the
requirements meeting. The next stage has previously been
called the "prototype stage" and corresponds to writing the
functional spec and agreeing things at the functional spec
meeting (prototype sign off). It just so happens that we
haven\'t previously updated the functional spec itself during
this "functional spec" stage!
>>I suggest that we move the implementation plan to be between the
>>requirements document and the requirements meeting, and that costs
>>should be included as part the implementation plan, where I feel
>>they belong. How does that sound?
>no, you don\'t want to go to far until you have agreed the costs.
I still feel we need some document which basically says that we will
do the project by
1 Building a prototype (and firming up the functional spec)
2 Building the real thing
and details the costs involved in at least stage 1.
Either
- the implementation plan exists and is effective before the
functional spec (and includes costs) and is then updated
for the next stage
or
- the implementation plan is only for the "do the real thing" bit
and we need another document (project plan?) detailing the two
steps and associated/predicted (respectively) costs.
>>>>Also, at the Functional spec meeting customers "are encouraged
>>>>to play with the skeleton". This seems to imply that creating
>>>>the functional spec is like the pilot stage (create the skeleton
>>>>site).
>>>yep, seems fiar (we used to call this "prototype stage" - skeleton and graphic design)
>>Which, again, suggests that we need to have decided the implementation
>>plan (which will include stages such as "prototype" and "build" stages")
>>before we start on the functional spec proper. Well, we must
>>have at least decided the first draft of the implementation plan...
>agreed, it does appear to be very early to introduce a prototype, perhaps
>it should happen after the implementation plan.
I think we need a project plan which covers specifying (prototyping) the
system and then implementing it. Maybe the infamous quality plan has a
role to play (TimP)?
>TimJ
Myles
','f','',160,0,0);
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12660,'Fri Nov 27 18:37:22 1998','long',4,12653,'
This is the first real feedback I have had on what I wrote (Tim\'s
(?) additions were additions!).
Executive summary:
<UL>
<LI> we try hard to segregate the different aspects of design
and planning even though we know in practice they run into
each other
<LI> firm costing happens, in theory, quite late in the day
<LI> the functional spec _is_ a mockup (HTML skeleton or paper)
<LI> meetings are closely tied to the project stages which
documents represent
<LI> for some projects we need to tackle uncertainty head on
by iterating the design process
</UL>
Chippy: remember you are guinea pigging some stuff that isn\'t
complete---we just got bored with it after a bit---let alone tested.
(There is nothing at all about the actual development cycle, though we
did discuss Change Notices etc. at the AGM.) I think this means that
you are in a position to say what works with far more authority than
me or Tim ;-).
','f','',160,0,0);
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12661,'Fri Nov 27 18:38:12 1998','Re: long',4,12660,'
<H2>Iteration</H2>
One thing we haven\'t talked about much is the need for iteration.
The guiding principle is: explicit iteration is how you circumscribe
uncertainty, rather than trying to remove it entirely (sometimes you
can\'t) or hide it away and muddle through.
It\'s all very well having a more or less structured process for
carrying out a project but it won\'t always work out how it\'s meant to.
Under "Functional Spec Meeting" I wrote
> If they don\'t seem totally happy and clear about what we are
> proposing, they are encouraged to get us to do it in phases, with
> meetings before each phase to sign off the additional functionality,
> or make a prototype (if that\'s going to be quicker than just doing
> the full system, which with web stuff it typically won\'t be).
On big projects we should make explicit provision for one or more
prototypes. That\'s different from a functional spec because it
actually does something (not just static pages). Or, if we are fairly
sure about the basics but less so about the more complex features, a
phased implementation.
Basically if we aren\'t _totally sure_ about every detail of the
user experience, in GREAT DETAIL, we should be recognising that we
have a potential source of lateness and overrun, and making plans to
deal with that.
Apart from design and technical uncertainty, another very good
reason for iterating the process is if we feel we are unable to cost
the project accurately. Then we can insist that we will only bid for
phase 1 or for a mockup.
','f','',160,0,0);
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12662,'Fri Nov 27 18:38:56 1998','Architecture document and implementation plan',4,12660,'
<H2>Architecture document and implementation plan</H2>
By the way someone (maybe myself, orginally?) seems to have put the
implementation plan BEFORE the architecture document which doesn\'t
work for me ... Also they seem to have ignored and duplicated part of
the architecture document stuff. So I have edited it.
','f','',160,0,0);
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12663,'Fri Nov 27 18:39:35 1998','Meetings',4,12660,'
<H2>Meetings</H2>
Mr C:
> I suggest that we don\'t really want to mix the definitions of
> documents with the meetings needed to ensure smooth running of
> the project - they should be two docs.
Mr J:
> I also feel that we are not making it clear that "meetings" are not
> necessarily actual face-to face events, but rather a process of
> discussion and exchange concerning the documents (which may sometimes
> be face-to-face).
Documents are meant to embody and concretize "natural stages" in
the evolution of the project; meetings occur at the end of each stage
to sign off the document which is its output.
It\'s important to have the concept of a definite "meeting" event
for this to happen, because we want there to be a definite moment at
which we say "this is it: the process stops here and we move on to the
next one". The idea is to concentrate minds and make sure noone is
left feeling fuzzy or falsely sure about what it going on.
At least we exchange emails saying "I have now signed off the
functional spec" or whatever. A definite point event, not a process.
Of course in practice we are flexible and happy to "rewind" back to
decisions that "ought" to have been taken earlier. But only if it
doesn\'t cause aggro.
','f','',160,0,0);
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12664,'Fri Nov 27 18:40:05 1998','Mockup',4,12660,'
<H2>Mockup</H2>
> Also, at the Functional spec meeting customers "are encouraged
> to play with the skeleton". This seems to imply that creating
> the functional spec is like the pilot stage (create the skeleton
> site).
> Which, again, suggests that we need to have decided the
> implementation plan (which will include stages such as "prototype"
> and "build" stages") before we start on the functional spec
> proper. Well, we must have at least decided the first draft of the
> implementation plan...
Yes, the functional spec is as concrete an idea of the user
experience as you can possible make it---but says nothing at all about
how it is implemented (though, of course, you have that in the back of
your mind). The idea is to force everyone to think it through, and
make sure they all understand it the same, etc.
The idea of doing mockups---on paper or as HTML---as the primary
tool for getting the external behaviour right has a long history and
is part of mainstream modern software engineering ... for what it\'s
worth! Similarly the users-and-services model as a way of thinking
about the requirements.
The alternative is to say "oh dear, it\'ll take a long time to say
all that explicitly, I\'ll do what seems right at the time". But if
it\'s that obvious then what\'s to stop you writing it down? And
generally if you think it\'s that obvious then you are wrong.
','f','',160,0,0);
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12665,'Fri Nov 27 18:40:39 1998','Charging',4,12660,'
<H2>Charging</H2>
> Looking more closely, the document says that part of the point of
> the functional spec is for the project leader to feel happy
> about the costings
Sorry, it wasn\'t very clear. Where I said "The project leader
should feel happy about taking responsibility for leading the design
of the system, including costing," I meant they should feel confident
about _doing the costing_. There isn\'t supposed to be a firm costing
for the implementation phase before this point.
Basically I envisaged the costing working as follows:
We are approached
Us: PROPOSAL
Them: sounds nice
Us: REQUIREMENTS SPEC
Them: sign
If the project is quite big,
Us: bid to plan the project (and vague estimate of final cost)
Them: sign
Us: FUNCTIONAL SPEC and acceptance criteria
Them: sign (and hand over money if any)
Us: ARCHITECTURE DOCUMENT
Us: IMPLEMENTATION PLAN and costings
Us: bid to implement the project
Them: sign
(... uncharted territory ...)
Us: acceptance test
Them: hand over money
Admittedly, small projects will often have trivial requirements and
it won\'t be necessary or desirable to charge for writing them down to
the point where costing is feasible.
For bigger projects I would currently stick by the (deliberately
controversial!!) implication that we try hard not to promise anything
until we have an architecture document based on a full and signed-off
functional spec, and that we charge for making one. Although
obviously we will informal ideas and probably drafts right from the
start.
Basically the guideline is, the bigger a project, the longer the
early stages take and the earlier you have to start getting paid. I\'d
say Iglu was heading up towards the kind of size where you would want
money for doing a _requirements_ spec for relatively inexperienced
customers (ie some business consultancy), let alone the functional
spec.
','f','',160,0,0);
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12666,'Fri Nov 27 18:41:14 1998','Philosophy',4,12660,'
<H2>Philosophy</H2>
It seems from what\'s been said that I wasn\'t clear enough about
what the pre-implementation docs are supposed to be for. The idea is
to preserve, in theory, a distinction between
<LI> the rough concept (proposal)
<LI> why it\'s wanted and what it needs to do in the abstract
(requirements spec)
<LI> how it should look and feel (functional spec)
<LI> what the structure of the implementation will be
(architecture doc)
<LI> how the implementation will be carried out (implementation plan)
It\'s only when you have got to the bottom of this list that you can do
costings for the implementation phase with any pretensions to
accuracy. (Although you can get there pretty quickly on simple
projects.)
In civil engineering, the proposal comes from the developer, the
requirements spec from the consultants, the functional spec from the
architects, the architecture doc from the engineers, the
implementation plan from the project managers, and the implementation
itself from the builders.
It\'s true that "top-down" design of software (or of concrete come
to that) doesn\'t really work in the way it\'s theoretically supposed
to. All the way down you have both explicit and subconcious ideas
about how it will actually be implemented. But it\'s worth trying to
stick to the notional sequence because
<LI> thinking about abstract requirements forces you to consider
them in the broadest context and can help you see
possibilities you wouldn\'t otherwise think of
<LI> there is SOME truth in the sequence, so it\'s still the
best order to think about things if you want to get things as
right as possible with minimum backtracking
> I suggest that we move the implementation plan to be between the
> requirements document and the requirements meeting, and that costs
> should be included as part the implementation plan, where I feel
> they belong. How does that sound?
No, you can\'t plan the implementation before you have the
requirements.
','f','',160,0,0);
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12667,'Fri Nov 27 18:49:03 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Costs',4,12659,'
>I think we need a project plan which covers specifying (prototyping) the
>system and then implementing it. Maybe the infamous quality plan has a
>role to play (TimP)?
Well we sort of have a meta-plan for doing that---in our
procedures ... :). Since that\'s what they say: specify
it (the why followed by the what) and then implement it
(the how followed by the the).
[I don\'t think people are going to come at the idea of
actually PAYING for a functional spec unless it\'s clear
that it\'s going to be substantial ...]
','f','',160,0,0);
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12668,'Fri Nov 27 20:28:25 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Costs',2,12667,'
>>I think we need a project plan which covers specifying (prototyping) the
>>system and then implementing it. Maybe the infamous quality plan has a
>>role to play (TimP)?
>Well we sort of have a meta-plan for doing that---in our
>procedures ... :). Since that\'s what they say: specify
>it (the why followed by the what) and then implement it
>(the how followed by the the).
This meta-plan (at least the version presented in the
\'charging\' message in this thread) is the project plan I\'ve
been looking for (or at least the instantiations of it are!)
If I can write down how the project will work up to the
implementation plan (including phases and meetings), and
the associated costs, I will be happy :-)
','f','',160,0,0);
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12669,'Fri Nov 27 20:35:08 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Costs',2,12667,'
>>I think we need a project plan which covers specifying (prototyping) the
>>system and then implementing it. Maybe the infamous quality plan has a
>>role to play (TimP)?
>Well we sort of have a meta-plan for doing that---in our
>procedures ... :). Since that\'s what they say: specify
>it (the why followed by the what) and then implement it
>(the how followed by the the).
This meta-plan (at least the version presented in the
\'charging\' message in this thread) is the project plan I\'ve
been looking for (or at least the instantiations of it are!)
If I can write down how the project will work up to the
implementation plan (including phases and meetings), and
the associated costs, I will be happy :-)
Myles
','f','',160,0,0);
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12670,'Fri Nov 27 20:44:51 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Costs',4,12669,'
>This meta-plan (at least the version presented in the
>\'charging\' message in this thread) is the project plan I\'ve
>been looking for (or at least the instantiations of it are!)
Did you ever see the cartoon of the distressed person in
a psychiatric hospital sitting in front of a piece of
paper with the words "1. Make list" on it?
>If I can write down how the project will work up to the
>implementation plan (including phases and meetings), and
>the associated costs, I will be happy :-)
We should add to the quality plan a stipulation that
Myles is allowed to contribute or even make it up as he
goes along.
','f','',160,0,0);
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12671,'Fri Nov 27 21:12:42 1998','Extra points for inclusion in docs',4,0,'
security plan
risk analysis (what\'s likely to go wrong with the project?)
','f','',160,0,0);
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12672,'Sat Nov 28 15:26:21 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Costs',2,12670,'
>>This meta-plan (at least the version presented in the
>>\'charging\' message in this thread) is the project plan I\'ve
>>been looking for (or at least the instantiations of it are!)
In fact, william\'s meta-plan _becomes_ the quality plan
for each project, doesn\'t it? It shows which documents and other
deliverables we will create and when (in relation to meetings).
>Did you ever see the cartoon of the distressed person in
>a psychiatric hospital sitting in front of a piece of
>paper with the words "1. Make list" on it?
I\'ve just thought about that for too long and now need
a little lie down... Ran out of stack space :-)
>>If I can write down how the project will work up to the
>>implementation plan (including phases and meetings), and
>>the associated costs, I will be happy :-)
>We should add to the quality plan a stipulation that
>Myles is allowed to contribute or even make it up as he
>goes along.
I think the quality plan does this job, (without resort to
argument by being Myles) except that I\'m still not sure
where to stick my costs (answers on a poctcard...)
They can\'t really live in a (draft) implementation plan,
can they? Can they live the quality plan or do we need a
separate costings document?
Please let me know if this fits with others thoughts...
Myles
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12673,'Sat Nov 28 18:04:14 1998','Re: Extra points for inclusion in docs',4,12671,'
>security plan
>risk analysis (what\'s likely to go wrong with the project?)
done, v. briefly
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12674,'Mon Nov 30 9:13:53 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Costs',1,12670,'
>Did you ever see the cartoon of the distressed person in
>a psychiatric hospital sitting in front of a piece of
>paper with the words "1. Make list" on it?
:)
TimJ
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12675,'Fri Feb 5 20:23:16 1999','post-project post mortem',4,0,'
I have added a section for a post-project review document.
http://localhost:2080/system/quality/ProjectDocs.shtml#review
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12676,'Fri Feb 5 20:27:52 1999','Costs: the answer',4,12653,'
Tim eventually let out the secret of what you really do
about costing, which is find out delicately how much they
are intending to pay for whatever it is they want, and
what sort of quality they need, and then use the project
specification/planning process to work out what you can
do to that budget.
So, the whole question of "how do you know what it will
cost" is finessed. In the real world they know what it
will cost but they don\'t know what they want, which is
so precisely the opposite of the assumptions behind the
project lifecycle we planned that it fits the identical
system very well :).
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12677,'Fri Feb 5 20:30:49 1999','Re: Costs: the answer',3,12676,'
>Tim eventually let out the secret of what you really do
>about costing, which is find out delicately how much they
>are intending to pay for whatever it is they want, and
>what sort of quality they need, and then use the project
>specification/planning process to work out what you can
>do to that budget.
>So, the whole question of "how do you know what it will
>cost" is finessed. In the real world they know what it
>will cost but they don\'t know what they want, which is
>so precisely the opposite of the assumptions behind the
>project lifecycle we planned that it fits the identical
>system very well :).
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12678,'Fri Feb 5 21:16:28 1999','Re: Costs: the answer',1,12676,'
>In the real world they know what it
>will cost but they don\'t know what they want, which is
>so precisely the opposite of the assumptions behind the
>project lifecycle we planned that it fits the identical
>system very well :).
Confused. "the identical system" ?
There is value in the project lifecycle, I was able to refer Afam to it today, so that he can produce a req. spec for a neat idea he has.
TimJ
','f','',160,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
161,'reference','Paneris reference List',8161,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/reference/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/reference/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12679,'Mon Dec 7 10:18:04 1998','javalobby - opensource',1,0,'
I just got this, appologies for xposting, but I think we should all go and vote of java opensource.
Dear Java Lobby Members,
The Java Business Expo will be held this week in New York City, and
there are likely to be many significant Java announcements and
product releases there. If you are making announcements or hear of
interesting news, then please make sure to visit the Java Lobby
website at http://www.javalobby.org and share it with the rest of us
by contributing a posting.
One of the first major announcements is that the JDK1.2 is officially
released - visit http://java.sun.com for more details and to download.
The release of JDK1.2 is a major milestone in the evolution of Java,
and it is sure to have impact on your product design and
decision-making.
We have a new poll online at Java Lobby, and I would like to ask you
to participate. The question is "Should Sun make Java \'open source\'?",
and your input is needed to help shape our group position on this
important question. Please visit http://www.javalobby.org, login, and
cast your vote. (Our polling mechanism is still quite preliminary, and
you will see a ContactIDNotFound exception if you attempt to vote
without logging in. If you login first, then you should not have any
problem. We are working on making this more graceful.)
Your input is critical to the successful functioning of Java Lobby,
our primary purpose is to make sure your needs and concerns are heard
and represented. We are working hard to make it possible for you to
participate conveniently, but it still requires a bit of effort from
you. Please participate and help guide the group you are a part of.
Thanks,
Rick Ross
PS - we expect to make it possible to participate in voting and polls via
email in the not-too-distant future.
','f','',161,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12680,'Mon Dec 7 10:52:50 1998','Re: javalobby - opensource',1,12679,'
um, their servlet engine is broken, i could not login. also, there doesn\'t appear to be a webmaster to tell about this.
','f','',161,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12681,'Wed Jan 27 3:02:41 1999','JServ Conf (too shy to ask the list)',3,0,'
What is the difference between
wrapper.classpath set in jserv.properties
and
repositories set in zone file (webmacro.properties)
and which should I use for webmacro.jar?
yours
TimP
','f','',161,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12682,'Wed Jan 27 13:44:33 1999','Re: JServ Conf (too shy to ask the list)',2,12681,'
>What is the difference between
>wrapper.classpath set in jserv.properties
>and
>repositories set in zone file (webmacro.properties)
As I understand it, wrapper.classpath sets the classpath
for the JVM which JServ launches to do the Java side of
things. This needs to be set so that the JVM can find
classes (e.g. JDK and JSDK) you need to support all your
application (and find classes which it looks for at
run-time using Class.forName)
The repositories is a bit like that, but it is
used by Jserv to find the servlets you want to run in
a particular zone (and any packages specific to this zone).
So you should point wrapper.classpath to all your classes
except the servlet classes and packages supporting your
zone, which should be set in the repositories directive.
>and which should I use for webmacro.jar?
I have put webmacro.jar in the classpath although I\'d have
thought that you should put it in the webmacro.properties,
but that doesn\'t work for a reason I don\'t really know.
The thing about webmacro is that you don\'t write new servlets
to do new stuff (you just use Reactor, the one servlet they
have), you write a new handler (webmacro terminology). The
thing is that the JVM needs to find the handler which it
can\'t do if it isn\'t in your classpath. So, you need to put
/usr/local/webmacro/examples (or similar) in your classpath
(so that the JVM can find the handler in the classpath). You
also need to set the repositories to point to this same
directory, for a reason which, again, I don\'t really understand.
>yours
>TimP
So, the short answer is put webmacro.jar in your classpath
and put the directory containing your handlers in _both_ the
classpath and the repositories.
Myles
','f','',161,0,0);
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162,'hardware','Paneris hardware List',8162,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/hardware/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/hardware/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12683,'Wed Sep 30 14:56:42 1998','Hardware List',3,0,'
All,
I have created a node for Paneris hardware,
where I have listed all the kit I have got or
know about.
It would be nice for everyone to fill in the
rest.
yours
TimP
','f','',162,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
163,'setup','Paneris setup List',8163,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/setup/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/setup/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12684,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','LSN setup proposals',3,0,'
Boys,
we need to define and cost a network to support 250 students,
changing every year/term which will have approximately 6
client machines.
We can assume installation of ISDN and LAN as separate projects.
So we need to decide:
OS
Webserver
Browsers
Router/TA
Win-proxy/multiple IPs
ISP - needs adult content filtering so am recommending http://www.rm.com
Anything else?
','f','',163,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12685,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Hidden directories bug',3,0,'
Boys
I have just discovered a bug/feature of my implememtation
of system, hidden and private directories of the site.
I have a single array called <b><tt>DENY</tt></b> which scripts such as
generate.pl and create-project.pl use to decide what to access.
The problem is that search.pl uses the same array, and so
it does not search your <tt>invoices</tt>, <tt>letters</tt>, <tt>messages</tt> directories,
as well as not looking in <tt>tim</tt>, <tt>glastonbury</tt> or <tt>uist</tt> directories.
The answer is probably in the question.
It looks like I need three arrays:
<table bgcolor=\'ffffff\'> <tr> <th>Name</th> <th>Shown in structure</th> <th>Searchable</th> </tr> <tr> <th>system</th> <td><img src=\'/images/redball.gif\'></td> <td><img src=\'/images/redball.gif\'></td></tr><tr> <th>hidden</th> <td><img src=\'/images/redball.gif\'></td> <td><img src=\'/images/greenball.gif\'></td></tr><tr><th>private</th><td><img src=\'/images/redball.gif\'></td><td><img src=\'/images/redball.gif\'></td></tr></table>
As you can see we are getting the security requirement for hidden and system,
but I can imagine the distinction will out.
Oh, by the way, there is another \'unanalysed feature\' of
the regeneration script: it will regenerate structure
when at or below node that appears in DENY, so I have to go into
tim and regnerate the structure there as a separate action.
yours
TimP
','f','',163,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12686,'Wed Jan 27 17:32:54 1999','Upgrade saga',3,0,'
My upgrade saga is <a href=http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/setup/>here</a>,
for those of you who like reading about other peoples suffering.
yours
TimP
','f','',163,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12687,'Wed Feb 10 20:04:19 1999','From the MySQL manual',3,0,'
From the MySQL Manual:
> Win95 and threads Win95 leaks memory for each threads. Because of this one shouldn\'t run mysqld for an
> extended time on Win95 if one does many connections as each connection in MySQL creates a new thread! NT
> doesn\'t suffer from this bug.
Well, doesn\'t effect anyone else, and we wouldn\'t put a win95 server on the wild web.
However it sounds as though the following:
> Increasing the table cache Win32 has only a very limited number of open files it can handle at the the same time
> (about 255). Because of this one shouldn\'t increase the number of open connections or number of cached
> tables very much on Win32.
applies to NT as well and, unless M$ are allowing carnal knowledge of the OS,
would explain the Iglu problems and preclude NT from running any serious DB.
yours
TimP
','f','',163,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
164,'databases','Paneris databases List',8164,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/databases/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/databases/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12688,'Wed Jan 27 15:17:11 1999','to autonumber or not to autonumber..',1,0,'
We have been using the autonumber facility in abcess on most of the databases we have tackled to date. All tables use autonumber as the main key. relationships between tables use the autonumber to find the related record.
this is fine until we come to transfer the data. if we autonumber in the new database, we are going to break all our links between tables.
so is autonumber a good thing? should we write a class that sits above the database and does our autonumbering? would this break william\'s principal of doing it at the database level if possible?
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12689,'Wed Jan 27 18:22:52 1999','Re: to autonumber or not to autonumber..',4,12688,'
>We have been using the autonumber facility in abcess on most of the databases we have tackled to date. All tables use autonumber as the main key. relationships between tables use the autonumber to find the related record.
>this is fine until we come to transfer the data. if we autonumber in the new database, we are going to break all our links between tables.
It won\'t break the links. Postgres 6.4\'s SERIAL type is
implemented in much the same way as one used to have to
hack autoincrementing in by hand: with an INDEX, a
SEQUENCE and an implicit TRIGGER. Nothing stops you
inserting rows with particular `id\'s into the table
as long as they don\'t clash with any that are already in
there. It\'s only if you insert a row without defining
the `id\' that autoincrement will kick in, taking the next
value from the SEQUENCE.
The problem is rather that it won\'t automatically update
the SEQUENCE to account for the data which you have inserted
with known `id\'s. So although the links between the
existing rows will be intact, new INSERTs will typically
fail with a "duplicate key" error, because the SEQUENCE
from which new `id\'s are drawn will initially come up with
1, and that will already have been taken.
You can try out this behaviour by something like
williamc=> create table foo (id serial, foo text);
NOTICE: CREATE TABLE will create implicit sequence foo_id_seq for SERIAL column foo.id
NOTICE: CREATE TABLE/UNIQUE will create implicit index foo_id_key for table foo
CREATE
williamc=> insert into foo values (1, \'one\');
INSERT 18627 1
williamc=> insert into foo values (2, \'two\');
INSERT 18628 1
williamc=> insert into foo (foo) values (\'three\');
NOTICE: foo_id_seq.nextval: sequence was re-created
ERROR: Cannot insert a duplicate key into a unique index
williamc=>
The solution is have the automatic import script create the
`id\' fields as SERIAL, but then populate the tables forcing
the `id\'s to their known values, and finally go back and
reset the SEQUENCE so that the numbers it comes up with
won\'t conflict with any existing `id\'s. To do this you
appear to have to do
DROP SEQUENCE foo_id_seq;
CREATE SEQUENCE foo_id_seq START 278;
or whatever 1 plus the highest existing `id\' turned out
to be.
Note that Postgres probably really wants you to use OIDs
(object identifiers) for this kind of referencing---but
since that isn\'t portable to pure relational databases
we should stick with explicit SERIAL `id\'s.
>so is autonumber a good thing? should we write a class that sits above the database and does our autonumbering? would this break william\'s principal of doing it at the database level if possible?
Well, using low-level autonumbering is probably the cleanest
and most robust solution if the suggestion above works out.
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12690,'Wed Jan 27 19:29:23 1999','Re: Re: to autonumber or not to autonumber..',1,12689,'
Will,
Thanks loads for this. It has changed my day. (from bad to good).
PS We have started the cheese. To our pleasant surprise it is not a Strong Bloded stilton like affair, but rather a well flavoured, rich and creamy hard cheese. very delicious.
my day has just gone back to bad. i-way and iglu are now at \'daggers drawn\'. we (i) am managing to keep my head well down.
Cheers
timJ
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12691,'Mon Feb 22 23:46:21 1999','permissions',1,0,'
Chippy,
I\'m getting permission denied on my tables in admintemplate database, using user web.
Any ideas?
timJ
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12692,'Tue Feb 23 12:53:34 1999','Re: permissions',2,12691,'
>Chippy,
>I\'m getting permission denied on my tables in admintemplate database, using user web.
>Any ideas?
>timJ
The documentation (/usr/local/postgres/doc) is not clear on this
at all.
What are you doing (what\'s the URL you are calling) and what is the
error exactly?
Myles
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12693,'Tue Feb 23 13:38:12 1999','Re: Re: permissions',1,12692,'
>What are you doing (what\'s the URL you are calling) and what is the
>error exactly?
I connect to the db using
jdbc:postgresql:admintemplate web password
I know this works because if i get the passowrd wrong I fail to get my connection, however, when i do
select * from datadictionarytables
I get
java.sql.SQLException: ERROR: datadictionarytables: Permission denied.
so I assume that i have permission to access database admintemplate, but not to get to the tables (created by user postgres - if this helps).
Timj
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12694,'Tue Feb 23 17:10:59 1999','Re: Re: Re: permissions',4,12693,'
>I get
>java.sql.SQLException: ERROR: datadictionarytables: Permission denied.
>so I assume that i have permission to access database admintemplate, but not to get to the tables (created by user postgres - if this helps).
Run `psql\' and type
grant all on datadictionarytables to public;
For more info do `man grant\' or look in
/usr/local/packages/inst/postgresql-v6.4/doc/postgres/sql-grant.htm
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12695,'Tue Feb 23 17:13:38 1999','Re: Re: Re: permissions in Postgres',2,12693,'
OK. Here\'s a little explanation about Postgres users and Permissions
for those of us getting to grips with it at the moment:
1) Postgres has it\'s own set of users, each of which either can
or cannot add users or create databases. At present there
is one user, postgres, who can do both, and a few other users
who can\'t (including a postgres user for me and a couple of
others with user accounts on the box, and a \'web\' postgres
user which does not correspond to a Linux user).
2) When you run \'psql mydb\' to interact with a database mydb, by
default you will be \'logged in\' as the postgres user with your
(linux login) username. If there is no such postgres user you
will get an error about your name not being in the pg_shadow
database.
3) You can log into a database as another user by using \'psql -u db\'
You will be prompted for username and password (the latter is
ignored if the database is not password protected).
4) When you are in a database, if you create tables, views, sequences
or indexes then "you" have control of that object. By default, only
"you" can do anything to that table, etc (e.g. use SELECT
statements, add records/columns etc). You can alter this, though,
by issuing an SQL GRANT command such as
GRANT all ON MYNEWTABLE TO PUBLIC
so that every user (PUBLIC) can do anything (all) to your new
table.
"you" is the postgres user you are logged into the database as.
5) It looks as though, by default, anyone who can connect to a
particular database can create new objects.
So a suggested strategy for users on particular postgres databases
is to always use one given user (e.g. web) to create tables,views
etc and also to access/update/add records.
In this example, you created all the tables etc using postgres
but had not altered the permissions so web cannot alter (or
even read) them.
Regards,
Myles
>>What are you doing (what\'s the URL you are calling) and what is the
>>error exactly?
>I connect to the db using
>jdbc:postgresql:admintemplate web password
>I know this works because if i get the passowrd wrong I fail to get my connection, however, when i do
>select * from datadictionarytables
>I get
>java.sql.SQLException: ERROR: datadictionarytables: Permission denied.
>so I assume that i have permission to access database admintemplate, but not to get to the tables (created by user postgres - if this helps).
>Timj
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12696,'Tue Apr 13 12:44:49 1999','Boolean vs enum',3,0,'
Hi Mark,
Firstly, thankyou very much for your jdbc driver for mySQL.
I am very new to java and modern db technology so please bare with me.
In the manual for mySQL the system permission tables
take <tt>enum(\'N\',\'Y\')</tt> as their type but your implementation of
<tt>getBoolean</tt> is expecting <tt>enum(\'T\',\'F\')</tt>.
I have changed all my booleans to <tt>enum(\'T\',\'F\')</tt> but
thought you might like to mention this newbie trap in the
documentation.
yours gratefully
Tim Pizey
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12697,'Wed Jun 2 0:56:31 1999','Treatment of dates in postgres',3,0,'
So postgres is mercain :(
I have been happily using :
java.util.Date nowDate = new java.util.Date();
SimpleDateFormat formatter = new SimpleDateFormat("dd/MM/yyyy");
context.put("order_date_to",formatter.format(nowDate));
context.put("order_date_from","01/01/1999");
But we are into another month and everything has stopped working..
It looks like postgres\' native date format is
"mm-dd-yyyy"
Anyone else worked around this?
yours
timP
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12698,'Wed Jun 2 1:33:24 1999','Re: Treatment of dates in postgres',99,12697,'Posted on behalf of Rachel by TimP
On Wed, 2 Jun 1999 multiboard@paneris.co.uk wrote:
> Reply to this message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/technology/databases/messages/10.shtml
>
> Subject: Treatment of dates in postgres
> From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>
> So postgres is mercain :(
>
> I have been happily using :
>
> java.util.Date nowDate = new java.util.Date();
> SimpleDateFormat formatter = new SimpleDateFormat("dd/MM/yyyy");
> context.put("order_date_to",formatter.format(nowDate));
> context.put("order_date_from","01/01/1999");
>
> But we are into another month and everything has stopped working..
>
> It looks like postgres\' native date format is
> "mm-dd-yyyy"
>
> Anyone else worked around this?
Just that I trust the JDBC driver to handle the conversion via
java.sql.Date (note that "sql" in the middle!", and it\'s never let me
down. You use use java.sql.Date to extract and put dates to your database.
Sorry if I\'m missing a bigger problem. :-} This looks obvious to me so
I\'ve probably misread your problem...
--
Rachel
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12699,'Wed Jun 2 8:03:51 1999','Re: Re: Treatment of dates in postgres',1,12698,'
>On Wed, 2 Jun 1999 multiboard@paneris.co.uk wrote:
>> Reply to this message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/technology/databases/messages/10.shtml
>>
>> Subject: Treatment of dates in postgres
>> From: TimP (timp@paneris.co.uk) (194.112.47.112)
>>
>> So postgres is mercain :(
>>
>> I have been happily using :
>>
>> java.util.Date nowDate = new java.util.Date();
>> SimpleDateFormat formatter = new SimpleDateFormat("dd/MM/yyyy");
>> context.put("order_date_to",formatter.format(nowDate));
>> context.put("order_date_from","01/01/1999");
>>
>> But we are into another month and everything has stopped working..
>>
>> It looks like postgres\' native date format is
>> "mm-dd-yyyy"
>>
>> Anyone else worked around this?
>Just that I trust the JDBC driver to handle the conversion via
>java.sql.Date (note that "sql" in the middle!", and it\'s never let me
>down. You use use java.sql.Date to extract and put dates to your database.
>Sorry if I\'m missing a bigger problem. :-} This looks obvious to me so
>I\'ve probably misread your problem...
No, you are 100% correct, we use java.sql.Date (and prepared statements) so I think that the problem is almost certainly not with postgres.
Timp - what is broken? can you let me have a look.
timj
','f','',164,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12700,'Wed Jun 2 10:53:01 1999','Re: Treatment of dates in postgres',3,12697,'
>So postgres is mercain :(
You can alter this by using the following command to postgres
(e.g. through psql):
set datestyle to \'european\';
But as other people have stated, that\'s not your problem -
fix it in Java.
Myles
>I have been happily using :
> java.util.Date nowDate = new java.util.Date();
> SimpleDateFormat formatter = new SimpleDateFormat("dd/MM/yyyy");
> context.put("order_date_to",formatter.format(nowDate));
> context.put("order_date_from","01/01/1999");
>But we are into another month and everything has stopped working..
>It looks like postgres\' native date format is
>"mm-dd-yyyy"
>Anyone else worked around this?
>
>yours
>timP
','f','',164,0,0);
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165,'html','Paneris html List',8165,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/html/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/html/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12701,'Wed Feb 10 16:07:01 1999','CGI separators',3,0,'
From the <a href="http://www.cs.duke.edu/~dsb/kgv-faq/errors.html#bad-entity">W3C validator help</a>
> A URL for a CGI program that uses `&\' as a separator, such as "http://host/prog?x=1&y=2".
> Gerald writes:
>
> This is a common problem: the inventors of CGI didn\'t think things through very
> carefully when they decided to use the \'&\' character as a separator between CGI
> arguments, because \'&\' has special status in HTML.
>
> The only way to get around this is for the author of the CGI program to use a
> different value between arguments, like \';\' or \'|\', which would allow the link to be
> coded as <img src="http://site/cgi?opt1=val1;opt2=val2"> or
> whatever.
>
> Please contact the maintainer of the CGI program you are linking to, and ask them
> to use a different character for their separator. (Normally this is extremely easy to
> add to the CGI program; multiple characters can also be used so existing links
> using the \'&\' character will still work.)
>
> This problem is described in the HTML standard, RFC 1866, in section 8.2.1 (footnote 26 in the
> hypertext version).
Does CGI.PM accept other separatoprs?
yours
tim,P
','f','',165,0,0);
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166,'java','Paneris java List',8166,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/java/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/java/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12702,'Wed Feb 10 15:01:44 1999','java.util.Hashtable',1,0,'
I came cropper today, and lay the blame on java. Question is: is this a bug?
I am extending java.util.Hashtable and overriding the put method thus:
public synchronized Object put(Object key, Object value) {
// do my own stuff
return super.put(key, value);;
}
Ecerything is find except every now and again "my own stuff" is executed twice! After a little digging, I find that put will rehash() when the Hashtable is a certain size, the relevent code being:
if (count >= threshold) {
// Rehash the table if the threshold is exceeded
rehash();
return put(key, value);
}
Calling put again means "my own stuff" is done twice. A bit dodgey (on not)?
TimJ
','f','',166,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12703,'Tue Mar 23 13:55:05 1999','cloneing',1,0,'
Why is cloneing so difficult?
why can\'t i do the following:
ComplexObject p = new ComplexObject(<complex consturctor>);
ComplexObject o = new ComplexObject(p);
without creating a constructor method specifically for the task?
perhaps i should write a lot of stupid code to construct and object from itself.
But hey! what about .clone()
well if i want to clone ComplexObject, I have to write a clone() method that clones all the properties in my object, this means that all of my properties also have to be cloneable! ugh!
surely java knows enough to do eithier of these things without us having to write loads of code?
am i missing something?
timj
','f','',166,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12704,'Tue Mar 23 14:19:43 1999','Re: cloneing',1,12703,'
what i guess i\'m asking is why doesn\'t java have an inplicit constructor:
public objextx(objectx x) {}
timj
','f','',166,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12705,'Tue Mar 23 16:01:15 1999','Re: cloneing',4,12703,'
multiboard@paneris.co.uk writes:
> New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/technology/java/messages/2.shtml
>
> Subject: cloneing
> From: TimJ (timj@hoop.co.uk) (194.112.47.31)
>
> Why is cloneing so difficult?
> am i missing something?
.clone() is easier than you make it sound :-).
Are you complaining that the default Object.clone() only does a
"shallow" copy? Certainly, if you want a "deep" copy, you have to
write that explicitly, and then the fields must (of course!!?!) be
(deep-)cloneable as well.
Yes, it would be technically feasible to provide an automatic
"total deep copy" method as well (in fact you can probably write it
for yourself with introspection; you very nearly could in Java 1
because of the facilities provided for debugging). The narrow reason
why they don\'t is that it is very rarely what you want. The question
of which fields you want deep-copied ("by value"), which you want
shared between cloned instances ("by reference"), and which are don\'t
need copying because they are immutable, can only be decided on a case
by case basis. To take the most extreme example, if you have a cyclic
data structure (perhaps a message has a reference to the board it came
from, and the board a reference to the message), a naive deep copy is
simply not going to terminate!
In short, "copy it please" seems an obvious thing to ask but in
practice the answer is always "what do you mean by copy (in this
particular case)?". The shallow clone is relatively unproblematic---
it\'s reasonably obvious on a little reflection what it "means" for
each particular class---and since it\'s useful when you are just using
a class as an unstructured record, they included it, though I
personally wouldn\'t miss it very much if they hadn\'t (I just checked
my old Java sources and found clone used four times in all of them,
two of which were on containers). (It would surprise me very much if
you really did have a consistent need for a _deep_ copy.)
There is a broader point of style, too. C++ was very enthusiatic
about making everything be or appear implicit: default but redefinable
constructors and copy constructors (what you are saying you want!),
default but redefinable assignment operators, potential overloading of
all operators and functions based on the type of the arguments
(sailing off into the whole template system), so that you could "write
high level code and concentrate on the important things". Frankly all
these things are a menace because they hide what is going on, making
your code harder to understand and more prone to obscure errors. The
gain in conciseness is nice in a specialised scripting application,
but in the end it\'s not appropriate for a full programming language.
','f','',166,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12706,'Wed Mar 24 14:58:47 1999','Re: Re: cloneing',1,12705,'
Will,
> .clone() is easier than you make it sound :-).
> Are you complaining that the default Object.clone() only does a
>"shallow" copy? Certainly, if you want a "deep" copy, you have to
>write that explicitly, and then the fields must (of course!!?!) be
>(deep-)cloneable as well.
a \'deep clone\' was my intention.
> Yes, it would be technically feasible to provide an automatic
>"total deep copy" method as well (in fact you can probably write it
>for yourself with introspection; you very nearly could in Java 1
>because of the facilities provided for debugging). The narrow reason
>why they don\'t is that it is very rarely what you want. The question
>of which fields you want deep-copied ("by value"), which you want
>shared between cloned instances ("by reference"), and which are don\'t
>need copying because they are immutable, can only be decided on a case
>by case basis. To take the most extreme example, if you have a cyclic
>data structure (perhaps a message has a reference to the board it came
>from, and the board a reference to the message), a naive deep copy is
>simply not going to terminate!
> In short, "copy it please" seems an obvious thing to ask but in
>practice the answer is always "what do you mean by copy (in this
>particular case)?". The shallow clone is relatively unproblematic---
>it\'s reasonably obvious on a little reflection what it "means" for
>each particular class---and since it\'s useful when you are just using
>a class as an unstructured record, they included it, though I
>personally wouldn\'t miss it very much if they hadn\'t (I just checked
>my old Java sources and found clone used four times in all of them,
>two of which were on containers). (It would surprise me very much if
>you really did have a consistent need for a _deep_ copy.)
> There is a broader point of style, too. C++ was very enthusiatic
>about making everything be or appear implicit: default but redefinable
>constructors and copy constructors (what you are saying you want!),
>default but redefinable assignment operators, potential overloading of
>all operators and functions based on the type of the arguments
>(sailing off into the whole template system), so that you could "write
>high level code and concentrate on the important things". Frankly all
>these things are a menace because they hide what is going on, making
>your code harder to understand and more prone to obscure errors. The
>gain in conciseness is nice in a specialised scripting application,
>but in the end it\'s not appropriate for a full programming language.
Thanks loads for the input, it caused me to say "why am i cloning anyway", to thich the answer is "cos my datastructures are crap and need sorting out". so, off I go to get things right.
My conclusion is that "in java, if it is getting complicated, then you are doing it wrong". this doesn\'t hold for most languages.
timj
','f','',166,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12707,'Tue Apr 27 16:30:05 1999','Jikes',2,0,'
All,
I have installed jikes in /usr/local/bin. Use it more or
less as you would javac
Myles
','f','',166,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12708,'Wed Apr 28 11:02:15 1999','looking for utility classes',1,0,'
www.javalobby.com is a good place to start.
www.alphaworks.ibm.com,
www.davecentral.com/java.html
www.javacats.com
www.javashareware.com
are all good resources.
timj
','f','',166,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12709,'Thu May 13 13:13:52 1999','servlets.net',1,0,'
Their servers are a little swamped today. not a great start for an ISP. Anyway, it gives us options.
Servlets.Net Officially Launches Web Hosting
Solutions for Java™ Servlet Developers
PORTLAND, OR – May 12, 1999 – Servlets.Net Corporation (www.servlets.net)
today launched a new Internet web hosting service with an emphasis on Java™
Servlet hosting. Building on a solid platform of system performance and
stability, customer support, technical expertise, and strong partner
relationships, Servlets.Net offers a great alternative for web site hosting.
Servlets.Net Corporation fills a vacant niche in the Internet hosting
provider market. The Servlets.Net team is dedicated to providing the highest
quality hosting solution for web application developers. With network
operations located in downtown Seattle, Washington and administrative
offices in Portland, Oregon, the technical staff of Servlets.Net Corporation
is highly experienced in developing and hosting web applications for local,
national, and international clients.
Services include virtual servers, secure SSL virtual servers, SQL databases,
Java Virtual Machines, Java Server Pages, JDBC connectivity, mailing lists,
sophisticated e-mail handling, live credit card transactions, server
co-location, e-commerce and e-publishing solutions, and much more. Unlike
other web hosting providers, Servlets.Net offers private Java Virtual
Machines to its customers.
The service’s extensive web site located at http://www.servlets.net/,
provides web developers with all they need to launch a servlet-based web
site. The site is filled with resources for developers, including FAQs,
tutorials, downloads, news and other features.
The Servlets.Net network of servers is redundantly connected one hop from
all three major Internet backbones (MCI, Sprint, and UUNet) via direct T3
links. The entire network operation is located in a world class facility
with battery and generator power, climate control, nightly backups, 24/7
monitoring, and more. Sites hosted with Servlets.Net will be at one of the
best and fastest Internet locations in the world.
','f','',166,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12710,'Wed Jun 9 12:43:51 1999','Re: servlets.net',32,12709,'
>PORTLAND, OR – May 12, 1999 – Servlets.Net Corporation (www.servlets.net)
>today launched a new Internet web hosting service with an emphasis on Java™
>Servlet hosting. Building on a solid platform of system performance and
>stability, customer support, technical expertise, and strong partner
>relationships, Servlets.Net offers a great alternative for web site hosting.
I have been looking at servlets.net as an alternative source for
JavaServlet hosting. Unfortnately when I visted the site today
I got this message:
500 Internal Server Error
siteengine:
java.lang.NullPointerException:
I don\'t know how this may affect their services at large, but I thought
Paneris people might want to be aware of this as servlets.net may
be experiencing "teething trouble".
ColinR
','f','',166,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12711,'Mon Jun 14 10:35:55 1999','Re: Re: servlets.net',1,12710,'
>I have been looking at servlets.net as an alternative source for
>JavaServlet hosting. Unfortnately when I visted the site today
>I got this message:
> 500 Internal Server Error
> siteengine:
> java.lang.NullPointerException:
>I don\'t know how this may affect their services at large, but I thought
>Paneris people might want to be aware of this as servlets.net may
>be experiencing "teething trouble".
yep, I\'m sure they are. I wouldn\'t panic about it, you don\'t need to be able to write servlets to host them.
I am keeping these guys in mind as an alternative as well. Please keep us informed of how you get on with them.
Timj
','f','',166,0,0);
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167,'technology','Paneris technology List',8167,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/technology/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/technology/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12712,'Tue Mar 2 10:01:56 1999','urls',1,0,'
anyone know how an url like this works?
http://3453435432/bigeasymall/
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12713,'Tue Mar 2 10:58:25 1999','Re: urls',3,12712,'
>anyone know how an url like this works?
>http://3453435432/bigeasymall/
It didn\'t work the first time I tried it, but now it is giving a
404, though how it is picking up the.server.com I don\'t know.
Is it hoovering up all failed links on the net?
TimP
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12714,'Tue Mar 2 11:33:37 1999','Re: urls',4,12712,'
>anyone know how an url like this works?
>http://3453435432/bigeasymall/
$ perl -e \'print join(".", unpack("C4", pack("N", 3453435432))), "\n"\'
205.215.62.40
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12715,'Tue Mar 2 11:48:26 1999','Re: Re: urls',3,12714,'
>>anyone know how an url like this works?
>>http://3453435432/bigeasymall/
>$ perl -e \'print join(".", unpack("C4", pack("N", 3453435432))), "\n"\'
>205.215.62.40
Cool, but which machine is doing this?
Netscape isn\'t packing the IP before requesting it surely?
Still puzzled
TimP
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12716,'Tue Mar 2 12:07:49 1999','Re: Re: Re: urls',2,12715,'
Surely the TCP/IP stack is responsible?
Myles
>>>anyone know how an url like this works?
>>>http://3453435432/bigeasymall/
>>$ perl -e \'print join(".", unpack("C4", pack("N", 3453435432))), "\n"\'
>>205.215.62.40
>Cool, but which machine is doing this?
>Netscape isn\'t packing the IP before requesting it surely?
>Still puzzled
>TimP
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12717,'Tue Mar 2 12:25:18 1999','Re: Re: Re: urls',120,12715,'Posted on behalf of Kira by TimP
>>>anyone know how an url like this works?
>>>http://3453435432/bigeasymall/
>>$ perl -e \'print join(".", unpack("C4", pack("N", 3453435432))), "\n"\'
>>205.215.62.40
>Cool, but which machine is doing this?
>Netscape isn\'t packing the IP before requesting it surely?
It Is Specified That Thou Shalt be Able To Use Packed Representation,
If Thou Shalt Use The Correct-Endian Form.
Verily, Vinton Cerf Hath Spoken.
<giggle>
kira.
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12718,'Tue Mar 2 12:27:16 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: urls',3,12717,'
>>>>anyone know how an url like this works?
>>>>http://3453435432/bigeasymall/
>>>$ perl -e \'print join(".", unpack("C4", pack("N", 3453435432))), "\n"\'
>>>205.215.62.40
>>Cool, but which machine is doing this?
>>Netscape isn\'t packing the IP before requesting it surely?
>
>It Is Specified That Thou Shalt be Able To Use Packed Representation,
>If Thou Shalt Use The Correct-Endian Form.
>Verily, Vinton Cerf Hath Spoken.
><giggle>
>kira.
Doh!
I had actually got there: an IP address is ACTUALLY a number,
which you can use but the .4 notation is \'easier\' and so much less used.
thanx
Timp
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12719,'Tue Mar 30 9:33:56 1999','quark to html',1,0,'
Timp,
were you working on a converter?
have you had a look at:
http://www.quark.com/resources/1000words/qod040a.html
timj
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12720,'Tue Mar 30 10:05:20 1999','video capture',1,0,'
timp,
any chance of getting your video capture card to work?
timj
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12721,'Tue Mar 30 12:12:16 1999','Re: video capture',3,12720,'
>timp,
>any chance of getting your video capture card to work?
I have given up on it.
It has an incompatibility with by video card,
I know it uses PCI direct draw, but buggered if I can get it so work.
I seem to be doing rather well with getting permission to publish
Bill\'s words.
I need to know what we want to do with them :)
yours
timP
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12722,'Tue Mar 30 12:15:23 1999','Re: quark to html',3,12719,'
>Timp,
>were you working on a converter?
>have you had a look at:
>http://www.quark.com/resources/1000words/qod040a.html
This is what is called an Xtension, which you can add to quark,
I thought of writing one some years ago, but didn\'t think my
(Mac)hacking was up to it.
What I am doing is essentially easier and more batch oriented.
Rather than being integrated withe the GUI it just takes the tagged export
format as input.
Do we know anyone who uses a mac?
yours
timP
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12723,'Tue Mar 30 12:57:24 1999','Re: Re: video capture',1,12721,'
Tim,
>>any chance of getting your video capture card to work?
>
>I have given up on it.
>
>It has an incompatibility with by video card,
>I know it uses PCI direct draw, but buggered if I can get it so work.
ok, you want me to try? or has chippy had a go? what about another computer?
>
>I seem to be doing rather well with getting permission to publish
>Bill\'s words.
>
>I need to know what we want to do with them :)
we really want the audio as well as the transscript. i think we just put them on the comments page on paneris, and i imagine iglu would like to put them on iglu.com somewhere
timj
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12724,'Thu Apr 1 0:30:07 1999','using CVS remotely',4,0,'
Although CVS does in principle provide remote access to a repository held on a server (such as ganesh) from a client on another machine, using this feature is in practice a royal pain unless you are on a very fast network link. This is because CVS is phenomenally stupid about what it uploads when you do a commit. As best I can tell, it sends the entire source tree and then does the diff on the server side.
Since I want to be able to work at home and in the department, keeping my master CVS on my own machine and syncing that with working copies in both places, I had a look for a better solution. (My "source" tree actually includes transcripts of simulator runs which blow it up to over 1Mb.)
We are going to find the same problem with the CVS on ganesh once we start getting lots of stuff in it, most particularly of course large pieces of web content: HTML, pictures, and even perhaps databases.
So here is the best I am able to come up with as a solution:
CVSup: WTFIGO?
--------------
There is a piece of software called CVSup which is very fancy, optimised for low bandwidth connections and whatnot, and specialised for use in keeping a local CVS repository up to date with a remote master. Unfortunately it seems absurdly complicated, and while it clearly knows a lot about CVS, it will only do downloads (cvs update) and not uploads (cvs commit). Why???. It does offer to mirror whole CVS repositories efficiently, but that feature is in fact no use for us whatsoever because, as the man points out, it has a tendency to overwrite your local CVS versions with remote copies with the same numbers (unless you start having separate trees).
You can allegedly use CVSup as a plain "mirror these files efficiently" program, not bringing CVS into the picture at all. However I didn\'t feel like tinkering with it enough to find out, and besides
1) the server (which I believe I would need) hasn\'t been
turned into a Sun binary by anyone, and
2) the thing is written in Modula3, so you can\'t compile
it for yourself without downloading that, and
apparently Modula3 won\'t compile on Solaris without
special patches, so there.
However there is a much saner program which does this job:
rsync
-----
This doesn\'t know about CVS, but it does do the job of bringing into line two directory trees on different machines, efficiently (it uses checksums in some clever way to determine quickly exactly which parts of each file have changed). For instance, if you are in your src directory on your local machine, then you can bring the src subdir of your home dir on ganesh up to date by doing
rsync -Caz . paneris.org:src/
The -z option means that it will even compress the parts of the files that it has decided it needs to send.
(NB this assumes that you have set up "rsh" access to ganesh from your local machine---probably this isn\'t a great idea for security reasons! But you can also use rsync as a specialised server with its own authentication. For logging in between the Uni and my PC I use ssh, a replacement for rsh which gives you very secure login and encyrpts all the traffic between the machines for good measure; but ssh is only free for noncommercial use.)
Once you have your updated source tree on ganesh it\'s trivial to log in and do a cvs commit. In principle the whole process could be scripted.
I have installed rsync on ganesh. For a Windows port of the rsync client, see http://www.steffensiebert.de/ports/rsync.html
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12725,'Thu Apr 1 18:21:33 1999','Re: using CVS remotely',4,12724,'
Alternatively we could consider the "free for open source projects" BitKeeper:
http://lwn.net/1999/features/BitKeeper.phtml
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12726,'Tue Apr 6 8:13:05 1999','Re: Re: using CVS remotely',1,12725,'
>Alternatively we could consider the "free for open source projects" BitKeeper:
>http://lwn.net/1999/features/BitKeeper.phtml
Um, doesn\'t seem quite ready for use yet:
"Currently in early access beta. Because we haven\'t written up a license yet, this is a closed beta. Mail sales@bitmover.com if you want to take part in the Beta program."
I\'m not sure we should put our source management in the hands of an \'early access beta\'. I can\'t believe that this is not a \'solved\' problem.
timj
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12727,'Wed Apr 7 19:42:13 1999','Re: Re: Re: using CVS remotely',4,12726,'
>Um, doesn\'t seem quite ready for use yet:
Yes but there are serious discussions about using it for
the Linux sources. People don\'t seem to think FreeBSD\'s
solution (CVSup) really cuts it and I agree.
There is another thing but I\'ve forgotten its name and
it seems to go along with a replacement for make---
great idea but I don\'t know if we\'re ready for it!
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12728,'Thu Apr 8 8:18:52 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: using CVS remotely',1,12727,'
I will go with whatever you and chippy suggest. how close are we to being able to stick a project into a version control system?
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12729,'Thu Apr 8 12:40:08 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: using CVS remotely',4,12728,'
>I will go with whatever you and chippy suggest. how close are we to being able to stick a project into a version control system?
Er, we can do it right now!
In fact I have been assuming that you have been using it???
What I said in my original msg in this thread (OK, it was
a bit verbose! :) ) was that vanilla CVS is a little
inconvenient if you use the "remote server" feature over
a slow link.
The way the link to ganesh seems incredibly slow at the
moment, but I have ascertained that the "password server"
of CVS is installed (presumably by the cvs RPM) and works,
though I was unable to check out when logged in to it as
me because I didn\'t have sufficient permissions for it
to create its lock file in the repository. When I logged
on to it as root, it worked absolutely fine. Perhaps this
means we have to play around with permissions in $CVSROOT
or have the repository owned by "paneris" or something.
If the uploads when you do a "commit" are very slow, then
the best solution currently on offer is to maintain a mirror
of your directory tree on ganesh, using rsync (which works
astonshingly well!). When you want to do a "checkout" or
"update", you log on to ganesh, cd to the mirror of your
directory, and do "cvs update" or whatever"; then you use
rsync to copy the result efficiently to your local machine.
When you want to do a "commit", you rsync your ganesh mirror
to your local development dir, log on to ganesh and do the
"cvs commit" there.
But this won\'t be necessary until the repository has grown
a bit. In the meantime, just pointing a cvs client to
ganesh using -d :pserver:root@paneris.org:/usr/cvsroot
will work fine.
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12730,'Thu Apr 8 13:23:43 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: using CVS remotely',1,12729,'
>Er, we can do it right now!
>In fact I have been assuming that you have been using it???
um, no. but i will do (and need to). I guess I am waiting for chippy to reorganise things (as per that short thread :)
>What I said in my original msg in this thread (OK, it was
>a bit verbose! :) ) was that vanilla CVS is a little
>inconvenient if you use the "remote server" feature over
>a slow link.
>The way the link to ganesh seems incredibly slow at the
>moment, but I have ascertained that the "password server"
>of CVS is installed (presumably by the cvs RPM) and works,
>though I was unable to check out when logged in to it as
>me because I didn\'t have sufficient permissions for it
>to create its lock file in the repository. When I logged
>on to it as root, it worked absolutely fine. Perhaps this
>means we have to play around with permissions in $CVSROOT
>or have the repository owned by "paneris" or something.
>If the uploads when you do a "commit" are very slow, then
>the best solution currently on offer is to maintain a mirror
>of your directory tree on ganesh, using rsync (which works
>astonshingly well!). When you want to do a "checkout" or
>"update", you log on to ganesh, cd to the mirror of your
>directory, and do "cvs update" or whatever"; then you use
>rsync to copy the result efficiently to your local machine.
>When you want to do a "commit", you rsync your ganesh mirror
>to your local development dir, log on to ganesh and do the
>"cvs commit" there.
>But this won\'t be necessary until the repository has grown
>a bit. In the meantime, just pointing a cvs client to
>ganesh using -d :pserver:root@paneris.org:/usr/cvsroot
>will work fine.
great. chippy, let me know when!
timj
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12731,'Thu Apr 15 10:11:58 1999','Re: using CVS remotely',1,12724,'
>Although CVS does in principle provide remote access to a repository held on a server (such as ganesh) from a client on another machine, using this feature is in practice a royal pain unless you are on a very fast network link. This is because CVS is phenomenally stupid about what it uploads when you do a commit. As best I can tell, it sends the entire source tree and then does the diff on the server side.
>Since I want to be able to work at home and in the department, keeping my master CVS on my own machine and syncing that with working copies in both places, I had a look for a better solution. (My "source" tree actually includes transcripts of simulator runs which blow it up to over 1Mb.)
>We are going to find the same problem with the CVS on ganesh once we start getting lots of stuff in it, most particularly of course large pieces of web content: HTML, pictures, and even perhaps databases.
I appear to be able to commit single files absolutely fine using wincvs, and it doesn\'t send the entire source tree. I have to manually choose the files to be commited, but that is not too much of a problem.
','f','',167,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
168,'fish','Paneris fish List',8168,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/fish/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/fish/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12732,'Wed May 5 10:59:54 1999','Looking at fish',3,0,'
Look at all the cool people who are looking at the fish:
http://www.paneris.co.uk/paneris/cgi-bin/trace_url.pl?url=/system/technology/webmacro/fish/subject.shtml
yours
timP
','f','',168,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
169,'webmacro','Paneris webmacro List',8169,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/webmacro/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/webmacro/',8);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12733,'Wed Jan 27 14:42:59 1999','my first webmacrolet',1,0,'
boys,
if you are looking for something useful (and simple) to do, have a crack at one of the following:
1) We need a posql (plain old sql) function, similar to the one written for iglu.
2) We need an sql or csv import function that will allow us to transfer the PM system data into Postgres on Ganesh (the machine formaly known as Newbox). This function is also required for other projects in the offing...
I am still building the Generic Administration System. This looks like it could take a little while.
Cheers
TimJ
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12734,'Fri Feb 19 16:51:41 1999','wm.log',1,0,'
chippy,
i rm\'d this on ganesh (/usr/local/packages/inst/webmacro0.75/wm.log)
, only to find that it is not automatically recreated, how i get webmacro to start logging again?
also i can still see it with a locate. why is this?
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12735,'Sat Feb 20 10:46:26 1999','Re: wm.log',4,12734,'
>also i can still see it with a locate. why is this?
because locate works with a static database which is
updated once a day (or whatever, see /etc/crontab
and /etc/cron.daily, /etc/cron.weekly, ...)
that\'s why it gives you such a quick answer ...
`find\', on the other hand, does an actual recursive
directory search
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12736,'Mon Feb 22 12:55:05 1999','Re: wm.log',2,12734,'
Tim,
You can use \'touch\' which makes a file\'s "last accessed" time
be now, and creates the file if it does not exist. So you
will need \'touch /usr/local/webmacro/wm.log\'. Don\'t forget to
check permissions (to get it to work, use 777 and then restrict
it when you know what user Webmacro writes the log files as -
they will probably be owned by root).
Myles
>chippy,
>i rm\'d this on ganesh (/usr/local/packages/inst/webmacro0.75/wm.log)
>, only to find that it is not automatically recreated, how i get webmacro to start logging again?
>also i can still see it with a locate. why is this?
>timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12737,'Wed Mar 3 15:27:17 1999','at last ... some docs',1,0,'
I have written a document, and some javadocs for the stuff I have done recently (datadictionary port and sugar application). Please check it out. I think I am in danger of heading down the wrong path entirely.....
It\'s available from this node.
timJ
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12738,'Sun Mar 7 11:16:14 1999','release notes for sugar',1,0,'
All,
I have written some release notes for sugar, the provide a brief introduction to the Datadictionary which may be useful as you begin to try to understand the method in my madness (sorry i meant to say, methods in my java).
anyway check out:
http://www.maytech.com/sugar/index.html
timJ
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12739,'Sat Mar 13 8:05:14 1999','interesting post from jsp list',1,0,'
in fact this the _only_ interesting post in the past couple of months
> [apologies to Scott for accidently sending this to him off list, too.
> Stupid email program....]
[I think the problem is in Sun\'s mailing list server.]
Summary of your message: Product software has no value. Distribution, tech
support and consulting have value, but writing software is worthless.
Implication: No sane business will create software for JSP.
Maybe you\'re right. But I want you to think hard about the secondary
implications of JSP with no commercial support.
Compare the market for JSP and ASP. Not the product, the market. ASP has say
100,000 developers? JSP has 1,000? Maybe? ASP has support from many
development/editing tools. It has many web sites with tutorials and examples
and huge libraries of code. It has several books and tutorials. ASP has many
consultants. It is available from ISPs. ISPs won\'t touch JSP, nor servlets,
because there is still no solid deployment for them commercial or
non-commercial.
If you\'re a consultant, how valuable is your knowledge of JSP? Zero? Do you
even bother putting it on your resume? ASP consultants brag about it on their
resume. ASP is valuable to consultants. JSP is close to worthless.
If you\'re working in a larger company, how hard is it to convince management
to use JSP?
Why is JSP in severe trouble? In part because of spec problems. Mostly,
though, because no sane business will spend any effort on JSP. That means no
commercial-quality implementations (and Apache JServ is not commercial
quality.) That means no technical support beyond this list. That means
neither books, nor tutorials, nor consultancies.
Let me give you two real, not hypothetical examples.
The open source servlet runner, Apache JServ, is slow, it\'s very difficult to
install, it\'s still in beta and it still missing the servlet 2.1 API. And
servlets are much more mature than JSP. We\'ve got a prototype which cuts the
latency from 35ms to 11ms. (That\'s including the fixed 6ms Apache
overhead.) I think we can make installation easy even for novices. Will you
ever see it? No. Why? Because it\'s not worth our time to develop it. So
you can wait and hope someone will volunteer to improve JServ. It may
happen.
Our primary product, Resin, quickly approaching beta, brings JavaScript to
JSP. Even those of you who are Java hackers should see the value of making
JSP available to non-Java programmers. The more people who use JSP, the more
valuable your JSP experience is, and the easier it is to convince management
or customers to let you use JSP.
We\'re 90% convinced to drop JSP and adopt ASP. It\'s an easier sell. People
who develop with ASP can then deploy on whatever server they want with our
product and since it\'s in Java, can use Java components instead of COM if they
want.
Why abandon JSP? Mostly because the market is small, the customers are cheap,
and it\'s not likely that it\'ll really take off, especially if it continues to
discourages non-experts and non-Java scripts. Also the 1.0 spec is months
late, incomplete, and all indications are that it is unfriendly to non-Java
languages.
I don\'t expect you to care about one tiny company\'s decision to abandon
JSP support. Just decide for yourself if it\'s an exception or a symptom why
JSP isn\'t receiving support.
Scott Ferguson
Caucho Technology
p.s. The statement "what about making money from distributing computers,
..., providing tech support, from consulting?" is the most asinine statement
I\'ve heard in months. You can also make money professional wrestling,
flipping hamburgers, or pimping. If you value software development less than
tech support, don\'t be surprised if no one jumps to write software for you.
> Well, what about making money from distributing computers with the
> software installed, from providing tech support, from consulting? I
> actually really like the idea filling needs for companies using \'free\'
> software. That way they get products that have good reason to stay
> around for a long time, growing and developing, and if they have the
> need they can find others to help them out. I worked on one assignment
> for a big consulting company, working for a huge client, and we had a
> need for daily document conversion. There was a company that had an
> ideal product, just needed a little massaging in the code, a change in
> perspective. We called them up, dropped the names, and told them we\'d
> pay them whatever they wanted. Anything. And they wouldn\'t do it. I
> like the idea of GNU software being free, not necessarily from cost,
> but from the fear that it\'s secrets will die with the company.
>
> And as far as the viability of the business model, I\'d like nothing
> more than to have a consultancy that works primarily with freeware.
> Anyone else feel the same?
>
> Josh
===========================================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body
of the message "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For general help, send email to
listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message "help".
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12740,'Sat Mar 13 17:40:37 1999','Re: interesting post from jsp list',99,12739,'Posted on behalf of RachelG by TimP
> New message at http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/technology/webmacro/messages/7.shtml
>
> Subject: interesting post from jsp list
> From: TimJ (timj@hoop.co.uk) (194.112.47.31)
>
> in fact this the _only_ interesting post in the past couple of months
>
> > [apologies to Scott for accidently sending this to him off list, too.
> > Stupid email program....]
>
> [I think the problem is in Sun\'s mailing list server.]
>
> Summary of your message: Product software has no value. Distribution, tech
> support and consulting have value, but writing software is worthless.
>
> Implication: No sane business will create software for JSP.
Hmm!
Well, I use it professionally, having come *from* an ASP background, and in my opinion
JSP is vastly superior. Having said that, I\'ve been using the commercial
implementation by Live Software, which the author didn\'t mention, as I too found
JServe too fiddly and GnuJSP just not there enough yet. I\'m sure they\'ll catch up. In
the meantime Live Software\'s version is in my view very useable indeed, and extremely
refreshing after the godawful fiddling about with ASP. It also installed itself into
Apache 1.3.4 on Linux so easily (and graphically!) that I laughed.
FYI, although it\'s purported benefit is HTML integration, I actually tend to find
myself just using it as a convenient way of writing servlets, and rarely have actual
embedded HTML inside a .jsp file, rather generating it in code in more traditional
CGI/Servlet ways. I must say I find setting up "proper" servlets is over-fiddly for
me, and I\'ve found almost always unnecessary.
However, I think there are points in that post that deserve an answer. Sun\'s support
for this has seemed vague to me. It could do with being properly pushed.
--
Rachel
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12741,'Sat Mar 13 17:41:32 1999','Re: release notes for sugar',3,12738,'
>http://www.maytech.net/sugar/index.html
timp
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12742,'Mon Mar 15 10:01:16 1999','Re: Re: interesting post from jsp list',1,12740,'
My impression is that jsp is trying to do what asp does, and asp is flawed conceptually.
I am sure that jsp would work brilliantly is it simply went with (what the jsp list calles model 2) where the .jsp page contains html (and a bit of \'scripting\'), and the real code is all put into beans.
the trouble is that asp wants to facilitate this model as well as (model 1) where the java code and html is intermingled in the .jsp file.
they should simply stop trying to reproduce asp, and instrad build something like www.webmacro.org, or another product that looks very similar is http://www.bgeer.com/dexios/index.html.
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12743,'Sun Mar 21 8:20:38 1999','culled from the jsp faq',1,0,'
If were were to use jsp instead of webmacro, this is how we would ahve to do it, as you can see it\'s all a bit cumbersome (and also not widely used):
10) How do you invoke a JSP page from a servlet?
(Contributed by: Thomas-Bernhard.O-Hare@Dresdner-Bank.com)
After scanning through archives of the JSP mailing list to no effect I
finally remembered that I\'d pasted this example into a document I
wrote. It
was originally sent by Satish Dharmaraj of Sun to show the model 2
approach
(as described in the 0.92 specification): how to pass data from a
servlet
to a JSP .
Create a directory called model1/ under the samples/ directory. Place
foo.jsp and Foo.java inside this directory.
Compile FooServlet.java and place FooServlet.class in
TOP/servlets/directory.
Then invoke using http://host:8080/servlet/FooServlet
In this example, FooServlet creates a list and then stores the result in
Foo.class. Foo.Class is then passed as a datasource to foo.jsp.
The sources are:
1) FooServlet.java
import java.io.*;
import javax.servlet.*;
import javax.servlet.http.*;
import model1.Foo;
public class FooServlet extends HttpServlet
{
public void service(HttpServletRequest req, HttpServletResponse res)
throws ServletException, IOException
{
String s[] = new String[] {"blue", "green", "red"};
Foo f = new Foo(s);
req.setAttribute("foo", f);
getServletContext().getResourceDispatcher("/samples/model1/foo.jsp").forward
(req, res);
}
}
2) foo.jsp
<html>
<usebean name=foo type=model1.Foo lifespan=page>
</usebean>
<ul>
<loop property=foo:list propertyelement=x>
<li> <display property=x>
</loop>
</ul>
</html>
3) Foo.java
package model1;
public class Foo {
String s[];
public String[] getList() { return s; }
public Foo(String s[]) { this.s = s; }
}
(from "O´Hare, Thomas Bernhard"
<Thomas-Bernhard.O-Hare@Dresdner-Bank.com>)
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12744,'Tue Mar 30 18:12:25 1999','Moved psql scripts...',2,0,'
...from
/var/lib/psql/scripts/createdatadictionary.sql
to
/usr/local/postgres/scripts
I haven\'t altered any docs \'cos I\'ll be doing the
big shift around soon...
Myles
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12745,'Thu Apr 8 7:28:58 1999','org.paneris.util changes',1,0,'
I have revisited the org.paneris.util package in order to make some enhancemnets that will allow me to build the nw messageboards. I have done the following:
1) Implemented a cache for the datadictionary and other tables that it would be sensible to cache.
2) Reorganised the datadictionary classes to seperate metadata for data (therefor allowing the metadata to be cached). This means the following have gone:
DatadictionaryField
DatadictionaryTable
MultipleResultsSet
and the following added:
FieldMetaData
TableMetaData
ResultsField
ResultsSet
which is much more sensible.
3) I have added dynamic look-ups (cached or not cached).
All handlers have changed to allow for a slightly restructured generic results object. I have updated paneris.org (including the sugar stuff).
To update your system:
1) Update your handlers, org.paneris.util.*, templates and *.sql scripts.
2) Drop and recreate the datadictionary (this is because we have added a cached flag to the datadictinarytables table).
3) restart your webserver
It appears that ganesh is still running webmacro 0.75 - chippy can you upgrade, or let me know how (i think that all i need to know is how to create a new symlink)
the api docs are available in /usr/local/dev/java/org/paneris/util/docs and also this node.
hopefully when i next get some time, i\'ll be able to write the messageboards!
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12746,'Mon Apr 12 18:45:30 1999','Small bug',3,0,'
Installing Sugar on Win32 goes quite smoothly,
but I seem to be having a few problems, probably caused by
MySQL.
1) If you get your line ends mangled by FTP (ie containing Ctrl-M) then Webmacro blows up in a very uninformative way.
2) There seems to be a slight problem in selectPage, as the select statement comes out as:
<tt>
SELECT FROM datadictionarytabletypes
</tt>
I am also a bit flustered about the various versions of SQL.
I prefer MySQL\'s use of:
<tt>
id int(11) DEFAULT \'0\' NOT NULL auto_increment,
</tt>
to Postgres\'s:
<tt>
id serial
</tt>
I am very frightened by the lack of BOOLEAN in MySQL.
Anyway, I will upload MySQL Sugar.sql to http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/technology/webmacro/sugar.sql and see if it makes any sense to you.
To make sugar.sql postgres complient I thing that all you have to do is:
Hope you can get away with id syntax,
change enum(\'N\',\'Y\') to BOOLEAN
change \'Y\' to TRUE
change \'F\' to FALSE
Then it should slip straight in.
yours
TimP
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12747,'Tue Apr 13 2:39:39 1999','Re: Small bug',3,12746,'
>Installing Sugar on Win32 goes quite smoothly,
>but I seem to be having a few problems, probably caused by
>MySQL.
>1) If you get your line ends mangled by FTP (ie containing Ctrl-M) then Webmacro blows up in a very uninformative way.
>2) There seems to be a slight problem in selectPage, as the select statement comes out as:
><tt>
>SELECT FROM datadictionarytabletypes
></tt>
This turned out to be caused by my replacing BOOLEAN with
ENUM(\'N\',\'Y\') as per the system permission tables, when the driver was expecting
ENUM(\'T\',\'F\'), this is my first real triumph of being able to read system source code :)
I like Java :)
>I am also a bit flustered about the various versions of SQL.
You might want to look at http://www.tcx.se/crash-me.html
and http://www.tcx.se/benchmark.html
>I am very frightened by the lack of BOOLEAN in MySQL.
As that is the root of all the trouble.
>Anyway, I will upload MySQL Sugar.sql to http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/technology/webmacro/sugar.sql and see if it makes any sense to you.
I have updated.
>To make sugar.sql postgres complient I thing that all you have to do is:
>Hope you can get away with id syntax,
>change enum(\'N\',\'Y\') to BOOLEAN
>change \'Y\' to TRUE
>change \'F\' to FALSE
Read \'T\' to TRUE, stick with other typo :)
yours
TimP
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12748,'Tue Apr 13 2:56:06 1999','DB Admin scripts',3,0,'
Tim,
Can I say what a great joy it is to be reading your java.
Only taken me three years :)
The overall impression is of a massive body of code which really works. Well done.
Chippy and I have managed to get all the way to a serious stopping point which I expect will need a detailed airing:
Vis:
you are using <tt>SERIAL</TT>, <tt>BOOLEAN</tt> and <tt>SEQUENCE</TT> none of which is supported by mySQL.
I have found work arounds for the first two, but am rather frightened of the work involved in dealing with tt>SEQUENCE</TT>.
I will try to find out a bit more about the SQL standard,
but in general I think that we should try to gain interoperability between Access, postgres and MySQL.
I suspect that this is a sufficiently rich ground for a
religious war that I had better continue PFEtrack under postgres, but I may have a bit of a look tomorrow.
But the main thing is that DBadmin is brilliant.
love
Tim
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12749,'Tue Apr 13 8:17:38 1999','Re: DB Admin scripts',1,12748,'
>The overall impression is of a massive body of code which really works. Well done.
as you have pointed out, the exception handling leaves a little to be desired.
but you imply that you have got it working. nice one! surprise, you\'ve done it at 2.50am!
>Chippy and I have managed to get all the way to a serious stopping point which I expect will need a detailed airing:
>Vis:
>you are using <tt>SERIAL</TT>, <tt>BOOLEAN</tt> and <tt>SEQUENCE</TT> none of which is supported by mySQL.
um, really the datadictionaty stuff doesn\'t give a shit about the underlying database. the metadata controls the user interface, and jdbc does all the translation for the database specific stuff.
couple of exceptions:
1) we do require an autonumber (Access) or serial (Postgres) field called \'id\' for each table. I had kind of assumed that any old db would be able to handle this, but if necessary, we can do it ourselves. See posts "to autonumber or not to autonumber" under the technology/database node.
2) the upload handler is currently postgres specific as it has to manually drop and recreate the index on a table. In access, you can\'t do this (a reason for not using access for serious development). i had sort of hoped that this was a microsoftism, and things like mySQL would cope.
>I have found work arounds for the first two, but am rather frightened of the work involved in dealing with tt>SEQUENCE</TT>.
this is only used in the upload handler, all we are doing is dropping the serial index so that we can insert records as we like. when we have done the import, we recreate the index. this is the sort of thing that jdbc can\'t cope with (afaik), and therefor we are forced to do it ourselves in a db specific manner.
>I will try to find out a bit more about the SQL standard,
>but in general I think that we should try to gain interoperability between Access, postgres and MySQL.
we do have, it\'s just the upload that doesn\'t cope.
>I suspect that this is a sufficiently rich ground for a
>religious war that I had better continue PFEtrack under postgres, but I may have a bit of a look tomorrow.
cool.
>But the main thing is that DBadmin is brilliant.
horray, there is lots to do, eg JavaScript field level validation.
also various users are asking for an updating interface that allows data entry in a grid style interface (like access). this should be trivial.
i hope to get back onto messageboards today.
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12750,'Wed Apr 14 23:04:06 1999','update',1,0,'
I have done an update, and am very proud to say:
please update your sources from the ganesh cvs
:)
Anyway, this is what I have done:
1) Changed all handlers so that they subclass wmservlet instead of implementing handler
2) changed the template path as per earlier discussion
3) fixed bugs in upload (and other misc sugar amendments)
4) added ResultsSet.write() and ResultsSet.delete() methods (removing offending code from AdministrationUpdate)
Additionally I have updated ganesh to webmacro 0.85, and updated our installed code.
I have written my 1st shell script for about 5 years:
/usr/local/packages/inst/paneris/org/paneris/compileall.sh will compile all the java currently in paneris and put the classes in the right place to run them.
I have moved WebMacro.properties from /usr/local/webmacro to /usr/local/webmacro/examples (which is where it is for a default webmacro install). Also, I have changed the TemplatePath in WebMacro.properties to:
/usr/local/packages/inst/paneris/org/paneris:/usr/local/webmacro/examples
(the colon buggered me up for a bit - semicolon being the win thing)
thats it, except to say there is a bug in AdministrationUpload.java which prevents me getting the sugar db going. I am will look at it tomorrow, but first I must cvs checkout.
(i am having fun, loads of thanks to those who spent time and thought getting this together :)
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12751,'Wed Apr 14 23:37:46 1999','Re: update',4,12750,'
>(i am having fun, loads of thanks to those who spent time and thought getting this together :)
I don\'t know where this `those\' comes from, I think you
mean Myles! (Great work Chippy.)
I may be forced to rewrite a more general version of your
shell script using "find" ...
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12752,'Thu Apr 15 9:46:32 1999','Re: Re: update',1,12751,'
>I don\'t know where this `those\' comes from, I think you
>mean Myles! (Great work Chippy.)
Indeed great work.
Also like what you (timp and chippy) did on upload.java (so _that_ is how you supposed to write code :). I have fixed a couple (3) bugs in this - 2 introduced, 1 reported by customer. This lead to an interesting observation:
when developing upload.java (and i suspect other bits in the future), i cannot test locally \'cos i am using access and it can\'t cope, so i have to test on ganesh. obviously it would be stupid to do the entire cvs commit process for every code->compile->test cycle, so I simply upload the classes to the right palce on ganesh. I figure this is ok as ganesh is a \'development system\'. we will still need to periodically do a checkout/rebuild on ganesh just to ensure everything is workign fine out of the cvs. thoughts?
also, wincvs is fab, and i don\'t have to do a complete upload of the cvs tree for each commit (i seem to remember this was an issue from a previopus thread). I can simply commit a single file if i like, it\'s very quick.
>I may be forced to rewrite a more general version of your
>shell script using "find" ...
fine.
what a lovely sunny day. i may have a relaxing time today looking after thea, as jenny was up _all_ night writing an essay.
i don\'t know how we can have considered ourselves a "distributed software development team" without cvs. infact unless you use cvs, you are not really developing software at all, meerly hacking scripts. i think we have taken a massive step forward.
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12753,'Thu Apr 15 12:01:35 1999','Re: Re: Re: update',3,12752,'
>>I don\'t know where this `those\' comes from, I think you
>>mean Myles! (Great work Chippy.)
>Indeed great work.
>Also like what you (timp and chippy) did on upload.java
>(so _that_ is how you supposed to write code :).
Well, it might be getting closer. As a guideline, no function should
have more than 10 lines of code if you can help it :-)
>I have fixed a couple (3) bugs in this - 2 introduced,
Sorry Tim. See http://idm.internet.com/opinion/beingwrong.shtml
>1 reported by customer. This lead to an interesting observation:
>when developing upload.java (and i suspect other bits in the future),
>i cannot test locally \'cos i am using access and it can\'t cope,
???
>so i have to test on ganesh. obviously it would be stupid to do the
>entire cvs commit process for every code->compile->test cycle, so I
>simply upload the classes to the right palce on ganesh.
>I figure this is ok as ganesh is a \'development system\'.
>we will still need to periodically do a checkout/rebuild
>on ganesh just to ensure everything is workign fine out of the cvs. thoughts?
You shouldn\'t really be doing that, but if you have no choice...
What\'s wrong with Access?
>also, wincvs is fab, and i don\'t have to do a complete upload of the cvs tree for each commit (i seem to remember this was an issue from a previopus thread). I can simply commit a single file if i like, it\'s very quick.
Cool. And you say it has a proxy feature? Cool!
>>I may be forced to rewrite a more general version of your
>>shell script using "find" ...
>fine.
>what a lovely sunny day. i may have a relaxing time today looking after thea, as jenny was up _all_ night writing an essay.
>i don\'t know how we can have considered ourselves a "distributed software development team" without cvs. infact unless you use cvs, you are not really developing software at all, meerly hacking scripts. i think we have taken a massive step forward.
>timj
Have a nice day!
Myles
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12754,'Fri Apr 16 10:35:09 1999','Re: Re: Re: Re: update',1,12753,'
>>when developing upload.java (and i suspect other bits in the future),
>>i cannot test locally \'cos i am using access and it can\'t cope,
>???
>>so i have to test on ganesh. obviously it would be stupid to do the
>>entire cvs commit process for every code->compile->test cycle, so I
>>simply upload the classes to the right palce on ganesh.
>>I figure this is ok as ganesh is a \'development system\'.
>>we will still need to periodically do a checkout/rebuild
>>on ganesh just to ensure everything is workign fine out of the cvs. thoughts?
>You shouldn\'t really be doing that, but if you have no choice...
>What\'s wrong with Access?
you can\'t drop / rebuild an autonumber index (even in access itself). I guess the issue is that Upload.java is db specific (as timp found), and I don\'t have postgres locally. hopefully this will not occur very often.
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12755,'Mon Apr 19 14:25:27 1999','update',1,0,'
I have done a cvs update, briefly:
1) rename db.properties to project.properties (and include a new property "databasename". is cvs this file is called project.properties.example
2) added SQLMetaData to ResultsFieldMetaData, this gives access to the jdbc metadata. This has allowed me to remove some code that timp was concerned about from FieldMetaData, and should make things more robust.
3) however it did throw up a bug in access/odbc. workaround is now in ResultsField
4) got rid of createadminitration.sql
please update your source.
timj
ps. messageboards coming along nicely.
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12756,'Thu May 6 0:27:35 1999','Chippy\'s Wish List',2,0,'
Here\'s a few things we need/would be nice, I reckon. Some of
them are on the way (I\'ve got stuff about permissions) and some are just a case of getting round to it (and altering all the existing code!):
Chippy\'s Wish List
==================
1) DOCUMENTATION!!!
(Not shouting, more recoiling in fear)
2) Permissions and Users system (and UserProvider)
3) setFromForm and checkValidity in ResultsSet/ResultsField
4) Rename ResultsSet and ResultsField to DDRecord and DDField
5) Move all org.paneris.util classes which rely on the database/datadictionary into a new package (org.paneris.datadictionary?). These are:
DBConnectionManager
FieldMetaData
HTMLUtil (new (static) class for any HTML!)
ResultsField
ResultsSet
SQLMetaData
SystemProperties
TableMetaData
6) InstallPaneris script:
Asks which components you want (Permissions and MessageBoards at the minute)
Asks where your database definition is (a .sql script)
Asks where your data is (a .sql script)
Asks whether you have a DD definition or whether to create one automatically
Writes a script to:
- Create your tables
- Create optional tables (Permissions/MessageBoards)
- Create Datadictionary tables
- Fill in defaults in the datadictionary table for all existing tables
(somehow taking into account the user\'s setting of these things)
7) Audit of Exception handling (really throwing)
8) Turn the DataCache into a ResourceProvider
9) Create a PanerisServlet subclass of WMServlet to derive our handlers from
9) More documentation!
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12757,'Thu May 6 7:39:15 1999','Re: Chippy\'s Wish List',1,12756,'
I would also like basic client side validation using javascript. Otherwise, good list.
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12758,'Mon May 10 13:34:24 1999','Validation (was Re: Chippy\'s Wish List)',2,12756,'
>Chippy\'s Wish List
>==================
>1) DOCUMENTATION!!!
>2) Permissions and Users system (and UserProvider)
Doc to come soon
>3) setFromForm and checkValidity in ResultsSet/ResultsField
See below for more on (server-side) validation
>4) Rename ResultsSet and ResultsField to DDRecord and DDField
>5) Move all org.paneris.util classes which rely on the
> database/datadictionary into a new package (org.paneris.datadictionary?).
>6) InstallPaneris script:
>7) Audit of Exception handling (really throwing)
>8) Turn the DataCache into a ResourceProvider
Actually, I now think this is a bad idea - our datadictionary stuff
needs this but do we really want to pass our datacache (fromt the
broker) around? Maybe not...
>9) Create a PanerisServlet subclass of WMServlet to derive our handlers from
>10) I would also like basic client side validation using javascript. Otherwise, good list.
I have added validation on both the server and client side.
At present this checks for malformed input (e.g. dates or
integers in the wrong format) and mandatory fields. It does
not check that any unique fields are unique (a small modification
for the server side stuff, though).
On the server side, use myResultsSet.getProblem() (where
myResultsSet is a ResultsSet that you have stuck some values in)
and iterate through the ValidationProblems returned, handling them
as you please (there is a default ValidationProblem.toString()). E.g.:
Vector ValidationProbs = ddPOrder.getProblems();
if (!ValidationProbs.isEmpty()) {
String error = "";
for (Enumeration enum = ValidationProbs.elements(); enum.hasMoreElements();) {
ValidationProblem prob = (ValidationProblem) enum.nextElement();
error += prob.toString() + " <BR> ";
}
context.put("error",error);
connMgr.freeConnection(db, conn);
// return the appropriate template
try {
return (Template) context.getBroker().getValue(TemplateProvider.TYPE,"error.wm");
} catch (Exception e) {
throw new HandlerException("Could not locate template: " + templateName);
}
}
On the client side:
1) Include the following in your template head section:
<script src="/validationdummy.js"></script>
<script language="JavaScript1.2" src="/validation.js"></script>
I have created a org.paneris.util.validation module for these 2
js files (the first has dummy defns for pre JS1.2 browsers). I have
manually copied them to the root of ganesh.
2) Call myResultsField.JSValidation() in your template. This will
put in a bit of JS code which means the field will be validated
when you hit submit, so long as you...
3)... Include the following in your submit input tag(s):
onClick="return validate(this.form);"
Check out ResultsField for more getJSValidation functions (to
allow us to use non-default variable names, displaynames and
whether the result is mandatory). See HTMLUtil for comments
on what these functions actually return.
The javascript works by allowing you to define "validation rules".
These check each input to see whether it is empty, and gives an
error if it is mandatory. It also checks the input value against
a Regular Expression for basic formatting (no alpha chars in a
number!). You can also add arbitary JS code for more general checks
(is the \'month\' part of a date less than 13?). I have defined a few
rules to take care of our Datadictionary types (specifically Integers,
Numbers, Dates and Datetimes) in validation.js. We can either
add new rules into this file if it will be useful for more than one
project, or you can just define your own rules, either as function
definitions in your template (or a master template included in all
pages) or you can generate them as needed by writing a line in your
template of the form
add_rule("input_field_1", "Purchase Order", 1, "^(\\d*)$",
"if (RegExp.$1 > 10000) return \'Your Purchase number cant be above 10000\';")
Be careful of quotes and escapes (note \\d), and note that IE chokes on \'/\', in dates
for instance. You can use [/], though.
Now for more user modelling and permissions...
Myles
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12759,'Tue May 11 17:31:46 1999','Re: Validation (was Re: Chippy\'s Wish List)',1,12758,'
awsome bit of code.
i have added validatin to AdministratiohnEdit.wm - took me 2 minutes!
lush.
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12760,'Wed May 12 12:08:10 1999','Polishing current code (was Re: Chippy\'s Wish List)',2,12756,'
Here are the bits that relate to getting our current code
up to scratch
>4) Rename ResultsSet and ResultsField to DDRecord and DDField
>5) Move all org.paneris.util classes which rely on the
> database/datadictionary into a new package
> (org.paneris.datadictionary?). These are:
>
> DBConnectionManager
> FieldMetaData
> HTMLUtil (new (static) class for any HTML!)
> ResultsField
> ResultsSet
> SQLMetaData
> SystemProperties
> TableMetaData
>7) Audit of Exception handling (really throwing)
How\'s this for a plan?
- Generally, don\'t catch exceptions unless you want
to throw another one or you can gracefully recover
from the error (for instance SQL errors in handlers -
you\'ll need to present the user with a nice error screen).
If you find yourself wrapping up an exception you have
caught in a new one, (as opposed to just throwing a new
one without the old one in it) something\'s wrong.
- A function should not be declared to throw an Exception unless
you have no choice. It is much better to declare that it
throws a number of more specific exceptions
e.g throws DDFieldDataMissing, DDTableDataMissing
- Utils shouldn\'t catch any exceptions and should
only throw RunTime exceptions - this is what happens
at the minute. Note I am not including stuff that
we will move into the datadictionary package (see
below)
- In DBConnectionManger throw (yet to be created)
org.paneris.database.DBNotDefined or ...CantGetConnection
If an exception shouldn\'t result in one of these exceptions,
don\'t catch it
- In the datadictionary package we should let most exceptions
pass through, except for errors which should result in
(yet to be defined) org.paneris.datadictionary.DDTableDataMissing
or DDFieldDataMissing exceptions (so long as the exception
isn\'t one of the 2 proposed above).
- HandlerExceptions should only be thrown in handlers. The exception
handling in handlers in entirely up to the author.
These 3 changes proposed here should be done as soon as possible
before we get too much code we need to change (handlers _will_ need
to be reworked). It would probably be best to do it when no-one else
is working. Does anyone have time/money to do this :-) I could do it
this weekend, but I might need a break from PFE...
Thoughts?
Myles
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12761,'Wed May 12 17:16:24 1999','Permissions',2,0,'
I have put up some thoughts on permissions
<a href="http://www.paneris.co.uk/system/technology/webmacro/permissions.html">here</a>.
What does any think?
Myles
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12762,'Thu May 13 2:13:49 1999','Re: Polishing current code (was Re: Chippy\'s Wish List)',2,12760,'
>>4) Rename ResultsSet and ResultsField to DDRecord and DDField
>>5) Move all org.paneris.util classes which rely on the
Done. Gentleman, test your handlers.
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12763,'Thu May 13 11:50:26 1999','Re: Permissions',1,12761,'
>What does any think?
good.
My concern is with the "can write record 0" stuff, which doesn\'t make a lot of sense.
I think it would be better to mirror the SQL commands, so that we have 4 permissions_key:
read, write, insert and delete at both the record and table level.
at present, write implies read. with 4 permissions this becomes more tricky, so I think there should be no implications. so for read/write access, you must have permissions for both read and write.
this level of control may be too intricate for many systems, so perhaps a \'full\' permission should be added.
so permissions for table and records can be:
read, write, insert, delete or full.
each permission is held in a seperate record.
The other area of interest is "looking at specially named fields" to find users / groups. surely, this is neatly handled by the user_record_permissions (and group_record_permissions), which will be pointing to the users or groups tables. all we need to do is to know when we have got to the users or groups tables. this can be done using the "table type" in datadictionarytables.
I think that this if going to be a bit of a bastard to write. but we need it, and anyway, when did chippy last write some tricky code? ;)
the other (probably more serious) issue is speed. how may lookups are we going to have to do just to establish if a user has permission to view a record in a report? we certainly need to make good use of the cache, and may need to be even more imaginitave.
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12764,'Mon May 17 17:08:53 1999','update',1,0,'
OK,
I have updated ganesh with the following:
1) webmacro 0.89.1
2) new datadictionary class called RecordSet. This provides nice functionality for stepping through records (page 1 of 5, next, previous) etc. It also works nicely as a generic holder for data for basic handlers. basic handlers should only need to do the following:
a) set up an sql string
b) call RecordSet.getInstance(blah) - and stick the instance in the context.
there is no need to get db connections etc.
The reason why we are getting an instance is because the RecordSet will be stuffed in the session, providing the pages functionality.
We have a new TableMetaData property called defaultlinesperpage in order to support the generic handlers.
Please take a look at Administration.java and AdministrationList.wm to see the page handling, and the sugar handlers to see how simple they are now.
I think this is nice add adds significantly to our codebase.
timj
','f','',169,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
170,'tim','tim List',8170,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/tim/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/tim/',7);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12765,'Tue Sep 14 17:13:38 1999','Hello... Is this thing on? Does somebody know how to work this? Any body? Help.....',109,0,'
Hi Tim,
Is this right, um, I\'m not completely sure what I am doing.
Oh well, here goes.
Two things, firstly, have you got the photos from Bobfest?
I was far too wasted to pay any attention to them the day a
after. Secondly, what are all you guys doing friday, oh you
are probably doing Rats. Well I am in Oxford, b/c some guys
from work are playing a gig at the Point, and wondered if
you guys would be interested in meeting up. Just a thought.
Send me a bit of binary action
Zoe
xxx
','f','',170,0,0);
INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values (
171,'webcam','webcam List',8171,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/webcam/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/webcam/',7);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
12766,'Thu Sep 10 5:08:46 1998','Webcam goes live',3,0,'
Hi all,
If I am on line, and the camera is on, then you can see me
LIVE at http://www.paneris.co.uk/tim/webcam/
enjoy:)
Tim
','f','',171,0,0);
Skeleton site - 3 weeks
Chalet (Search, list, details, shortlist, admin) - 2.5 weeks
Resort ( --"-- ) - 2.5 weeks
Ski Domain (list, details, admin) - 1 weeks
Bookings (add requirement, response,
confirmation, travel pack) - 3 weeks
Fixed Content (ski area/fitness, help, terms - 1 weeks
and conditions, insurance)
Administration (users, bargins, telephone, - 2 weeks
mailing list)
Calendar/Weather - 0.5 weeks
Others (e-mail, javascript, image upload) - 1.5 weeks
------------
680 hours
TimJ\'s roughly comparable estimates are (roughly):
Skeleton site (homepage + design) - 1 week
Chalet - 1.5 weeks
Resort - 1 week
Ski Domain - 0.5 weeks
Bookings - 2 weeks
Fixed content - 1.5 weeks
Administration - 3 weeks
Bulletin Board - 1 week
Calendar/Weather - 0.5 weeks
Others - 0.5 weeks
(Rounding errors) - 1.5 weeks
-----------
560 hours
So, my estimate is 120 hours (3 weeks) over Tims, which is mainly
due to me setting aside 3 weeks rather than 1 for skeleton/graphic
design, and me thinking that handling Chalets and Resorts would
take more time than Tim.
We differ on the estimates of Bookings and Administration (but they
balance out, and Tim\'s probably right) and I think that the bulletin
board will take longer than Tim does. Tim has gone into more detail
about the misc. stuff at the bottom than I have, and so has a larger
figure.
Regards,
Myles
','f','',64,0,0);
INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values (
9649,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Re: Iglu costings',2,9648,'
I missed out Bulletin Boards from my bit:
>I have costed the various parts of the Iglu web site independently
>of TimJ, using broad categories of work. My costings are as follows:
>>Skeleton site - 3 weeks >Chalet (Search, list, details, shortlist, admin) - 2.5 weeks >Resort ( --"-- ) - 2.5 weeks >Ski Domain (list, details, admin) - 1 weeks >Bookings (add requirement, response, > confirmation, travel pack) - 3 weeks >Fixed Content (ski area/fitness, help, terms - 1 weeks > and conditions, insurance)>TimJ\'s roughly comparable estimates are (roughly): >Bulletin Boards - 2 weeks>Administration (users, bargins, telephone, - 2 weeks > mailing list) >Calendar/Weather - 0.5 weeks >Others (e-mail, javascript, image upload) - 1.5 weeks > ------------ > 680 hours760 hours>
>Skeleton site (homepage + design) - 1 week >Chalet - 1.5 weeks >Resort - 1 week >Ski Domain - 0.5 weeks >Bookings - 2 weeks >Fixed content - 1.5 weeks >Administration - 3 weeks >Bulletin Board - 1 week >Calendar/Weather - 0.5 weeks >Others - 0.5 weeks >(Rounding errors) - 1.5 weeks > ----------- > 560 hours >>So, my estimate is 120 hours (3 weeks) over Tims, which is mainly Acually, 200 hours (5 weeks). >due to me setting aside 3 weeks rather than 1 for skeleton/graphic >design, and me thinking that handling Chalets and Resorts would >take more time than Tim. >We differ on the estimates of Bookings and Administration (but they >balance out, and Tim\'s probably right) and I think that the bulletin >board will take longer than Tim does. Tim has gone into more detail >about the misc. stuff at the bottom than I have, and so has a larger >figure. >Regards, >Myles Myles ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9650,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Re: Iglu costings',1,9649,' Chippy, I have revised my costs to be a compromise between our 2 estimages. Development costs now total 657 hours (£26280). I will email them now. Tim ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9651,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Bug Reports',3,0,' Just a place holder. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9652,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Edit Agents',3,9651,' The Title box is filled with: None couldn\'t execute statement: select ID from ..... So I tried to add a title, my machine froze, no response from iglu, guess you are working on it. yours Tim ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9653,'Tue Sep 21 10:31:54 1999','Re: Edit Agents',1,9652,' > >The Title box is filled with: >None couldn\'t execute statement: select ID from ..... > >So I tried to add a title, my machine froze, no >response from iglu, >guess you are working on it. not exactly a great start, looks like the server went down :(, i\'ll talk to graham. TimJ ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9654,'Sun Sep 20 21:19:21 1998','Paneris page no help.',3,0,' TimJ, I tried to find what William is talking about, went on to paneris, found the password, went to the website given, no sign of us, redirected to http://iglu.com/future.shtml. I know it may be administrivia, but can we have some links so that people not directly involved in the project can lurk easily? yours timP ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9655,'Sun Sep 20 21:23:08 1998','Re: Paneris page no help.',3,9654,' Oops, found it, updated page. yours TimP ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9656,'Sun Sep 20 21:24:48 1998','Re: Paneris page no help.',3,9654,' Tim, Can we get Graham to turn directory browsing on on the development machine? yours timP ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9657,'Mon Sep 21 13:58:19 1998','Re: Re: Paneris page no help.',1,9656,' >Tim, >Can we get Graham to turn directory browsing on on the development machine? Don\'t really want to, what is wrong with FTP? Cheers TimJ ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9658,'Mon Sep 21 14:01:23 1998','Re: Paneris page no help.',1,9654,' >TimJ, >I tried to find what William is talking about, went on to paneris, >found the password, went to the website given, no sign of us, >redirected to http://iglu.com/future.shtml. >I know it may be administrivia, but can we have some links so that >people not directly involved in the project can lurk easily? Sure, try going to the development site. TimJ ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9659,'Mon Sep 21 14:28:34 1998','Re: Re: Re: Paneris page no help.',3,9657,' >>Tim, >>Can we get Graham to turn directory browsing on on the development machine? >Don\'t really want to, So what? Hardly a reason. >what is wrong with FTP? I had to look through all my emails (no sensible subject lines), set up an FTP profile, get the password wrong, as it was different to the site, go through all my emails again, give up, rant, ask Chippy. Openess, Openess, Openess. Or if you prefer \'the onus is on the creator of any new element of PanEris to ensure that there is an explanation of its features \' see rules. yours timP ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9660,'Mon Sep 28 11:38:10 1998','Error Reporting',1,0,' This node will be used for error reporting. Please start a new thread for each bug found. cheers TimJ ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9661,'Mon Sep 28 21:37:41 1998','WellCallYou',1,0,' Wire into database ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9662,'Mon Sep 28 21:38:28 1998','Terms and Conditions',1,0,' Build page ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9663,'Mon Sep 28 21:39:00 1998','Home Page - Action Kruger',1,0,' Build with graphics ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9664,'Mon Sep 28 21:55:02 1998','About Iglu Page - Action Kruger',1,0,' Bui;d Page ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9665,'Mon Sep 28 21:57:34 1998','Search Results Page Navigation',1,0,' Needs removing when on first / last page of results set ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9666,'Mon Sep 28 22:03:38 1998','Re: Search Results Page Navigation',1,9665,' >Needs removing when on first / last page of results set. Also 11 results gives 3 pages, should ony do 2. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9667,'Mon Sep 28 22:05:20 1998','Re: Re: Search Results Page Navigation',1,9666,' >>Needs removing when on first / last page of results set. >Also 11 results gives 3 pages, should ony do 2. Also need resort name in summary info ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9668,'Mon Sep 28 22:08:25 1998','Ordering',1,0,' Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned: a) alphabetically by property name b) by price c) other ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9669,'Mon Sep 28 22:10:14 1998','Search Dates',1,0,' Default to todays date ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9670,'Mon Sep 28 22:12:47 1998','Booking redirection',1,0,' Get this working after login. Also get cookies working for group ids ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9671,'Mon Sep 28 22:13:48 1998','Re: Re: Re: Search Results Page Navigation',1,9667,' >>>Needs removing when on first / last page of results set. >>Also 11 results gives 3 pages, should ony do 2. >Also need resort name in summary info Need page navigation (and refine results) at bottom of page as well ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9672,'Mon Sep 28 22:17:25 1998','Resort Search',1,0,' Navigation at bottom Sort out page numbering Search dropdown should not contain resort, only countries. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9673,'Mon Sep 28 22:21:49 1998','Group Login',1,0,' Cancel button does not work ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9674,'Mon Sep 28 22:49:41 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Search Results Page Navigation',1,9671,' >>>>Needs removing when on first / last page of results set. >>>Also 11 results gives 3 pages, should ony do 2. >>Also need resort name in summary info >Need page navigation (and refine results) at bottom of page as well Also, can we have 5 results per page, and not repeat the last chalet on a page at the top of the next one. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9675,'Mon Sep 28 23:08:12 1998','Comment field can\'t be empty',2,0,' "Field \'slist_prop.Comments\' can\'t be a zero-length string." Can we change this. Similarly for SList_Resort.Comments Myles ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9676,'Mon Sep 28 23:24:48 1998','Re: Comment field can\'t be empty',1,9675,' >"Field \'slist_prop.Comments\' can\'t be a zero-length string." >Can we change this. Similarly for SList_Resort.Comments >Myles Should be done? Please retest ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9677,'Mon Sep 28 23:26:33 1998','Re: Re: Comment field can\'t be empty',1,9676,' >>"Field \'slist_prop.Comments\' can\'t be a zero-length string." >>Can we change this. Similarly for SList_Resort.Comments >>Myles > >Should be done? Please retest Oops, I was confused. In progress ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9678,'Tue Sep 29 9:44:25 1998','Fixed',1,9677,' >>>"Field \'slist_prop.Comments\' can\'t be a zero-length string." >>>Can we change this. Similarly for SList_Resort.Comments >>>Myles >> >>Should be done? Please retest >Oops, I was confused. In progress Fixed ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9679,'Tue Sep 29 10:26:58 1998','chalet search',1,0,' search drop downs should be alphabeticaly sorted ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9680,'Tue Sep 29 11:45:39 1998','Required data',2,0,' At present the Booking Offer script will not list a chalet on a shortlist if any of the following are not set: SkiResort, Owner, City or Country Should these be mandatory? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9681,'Tue Sep 29 12:40:09 1998','Message Board Change',3,0,' All, If you get this then the Iglu message board now gives you the project email list by default. yours TimP ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9682,'Tue Sep 29 12:51:32 1998','hello',1,0,' hello ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9683,'Tue Sep 29 12:54:06 1998','Chalet search - price',1,0,' Chalet Search - fix search by price ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9684,'Tue Sep 29 12:56:52 1998','RadsGroup authority',1,0,' Wire up booking to Authority, and build in 2nd payment to booking process. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9685,'Tue Sep 29 13:01:29 1998','Re: Required data',20,9680,' >At present the Booking Offer script will not list a chalet >on a shortlist if any of the following are not set: > SkiResort, Owner, City or Country I\'ll deal with each one in turn Owner - For properties, it must have either an Agent \'OR\' an Owner, so neither is mandatory. Country - Should be mandatory City - Now a text field, so not mandatory (Be in address probably) SkiResort - Not mandatory >Should these be mandatory? Ben Janes ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9686,'Tue Sep 29 13:03:12 1998','Duplicate prices field',20,0,' When you have time, When you duplicate a property record, would it be possible to also duplicate the associated prices records aswell. Ben Janes. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9687,'Tue Sep 29 13:25:36 1998','Re: Re: Required data',2,9685,' OK. Fixed scripts to take this into account Myles >>At present the Booking Offer script will not list a chalet >>on a shortlist if any of the following are not set: >> SkiResort, Owner, City or Country >I\'ll deal with each one in turn >Owner >- For properties, it must have either an Agent \'OR\' an Owner, so neither is mandatory. >Country >- Should be mandatory >City >- Now a text field, so not mandatory (Be in address probably) >SkiResort >- Not mandatory > >>Should these be mandatory? >Ben Janes ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9688,'Tue Sep 29 13:32:36 1998','shortlists',1,0,' Remove comments from individual items ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9689,'Tue Sep 29 13:48:39 1998','Comment Date',1,0,' Change field name of \'Date\' to CommentDate ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9690,'Tue Sep 29 13:50:03 1998','Chalet Comments',1,0,' These don\'t seem to be appearing ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9691,'Tue Sep 29 13:52:57 1998','Shortlists',1,0,' Prevent the same challet being added twice ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9692,'Tue Sep 29 13:57:11 1998','Re: shortlists',1,9688,' >Remove comments from individual items Actually I think this is OK, but we need to be able to change it. We need more details on the shortlists and the ability to select prefered chalets / resorts. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9693,'Tue Sep 29 14:00:19 1998','Challet Results',1,0,' Display Dates correctly in price list ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9694,'Tue Sep 29 14:05:19 1998','Re: Shortlists',1,9691,' >Prevent the same challet being added twice Also, can we keep the navigation from the resluts screens so that we can switch back and forth ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9695,'Tue Sep 29 14:07:22 1998','Fixed',1,9687,' MJC ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9696,'Tue Sep 29 14:14:47 1998','Skiresort to chalet shortlist',1,0,' The link from ski resort details to challet shortlist doesn\'t work. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9697,'Tue Sep 29 14:15:57 1998','ski domain - challet list',1,0,' This does not work ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9698,'Tue Sep 29 14:17:48 1998','Re: ski domain - challet list',1,9697,' >This does not work neither does the link to the challet shortlist or the resort shortlist ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9699,'Tue Sep 29 14:20:37 1998','Re: Re: ski domain - challet list',1,9698,' >>This does not work >neither does the link to the challet shortlist or the resort shortlist or the link to the resort ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9700,'Tue Sep 29 14:25:09 1998','Re: Resort Search',1,9672,' >Navigation at bottom >Sort out page numbering >Search dropdown should not contain resort, only countries. Need to get creche facilities and skischool working. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9701,'Tue Sep 29 14:47:27 1998','Straight in to frames',1,0,' Need script to take people straight to a shortlist with the iglu frames surrounding. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9702,'Tue Sep 29 15:45:32 1998','Re: Bug Reports',23,9651,' a few bits (did these this morning and had some trouble contacting paneris - so they might have been fixed already) In chalet search * any search with february in arrival date yields Error: Not a month: `February\' * search for price anything other than \'any\' yields no results * getting an intermitant "No field `location\' in form; fields present are " it seems to happen once but then if you resubmit the same query it doesnt happen again. In resort search * any search with location anything other than any yields Query SELECT * FROM skiresort WHERE country = 1 AND skiresort = 10: [-3030] 9; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression." ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9703,'Tue Sep 29 17:20:30 1998','Re: Re: Re: Required data',1,9687,' >>SkiResort >>- Not mandatory This is now mandatory, I feel it is to central to the construction of the site for it not to be. When a chalet doen\'t have a resort (some don\'t), one will be made up (the village, or neasest village). Hope this helps. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9704,'Tue Sep 29 19:38:44 1998','Re: Shortlists',4,9691,' >Prevent the same challet being added twice Yep, sorry, I had done this but not put it up. (It actually just overwrites the previous one.) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9705,'Tue Sep 29 19:43:53 1998','Re: Group Login',2,9673,' >Cancel button does not work This is an example of a more general problem involving javascript:history.go(-1) [ or back(-1) ] and the browser\'s back button. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9706,'Tue Sep 29 19:44:54 1998','Re: Chalet search - price',4,9683,' >Chalet Search - fix search by price There are several points here. 1) with an `any\' group size, it has nothing to go on in computing the price per person. The default is now to make it between half and all of the chalet\'s capacity. 2) all the chalets must have a group size or they are not picked up by the initial query unless group size is set to any---all the real data-entered chalets have a max group size so this is oviously not a prob 3) see next message! ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9707,'Tue Sep 29 20:02:03 1998','Access ODBC and dates',4,9706,' How the HELL are you supposed to tell it dates in SQL strings? try this one in http://194.128.98.18/cgi-bin/administration/posql.pl SELECT startdate, finishdate FROM pricing WHERE property = 8 ---plenty of results. Now try SELECT startdate, finishdate FROM pricing WHERE property = 8 AND startdate > 2000-01-01 ---The same hits, none of which are after the millenium. Conversely SELECT startdate, finishdate FROM pricing WHERE property = 8 AND startdate < 2000-01-01 returns no results. On the other hand nor does SELECT startdate, finishdate FROM pricing WHERE property = 8 AND startdate < 1998-01-01 In the same vein SELECT startdate, finishdate FROM pricing WHERE property = 8 AND startdate = 1999-06-02 "should" return 1 result but doesn\'t All of which means, clearly, that it is not interpreting YYYY-MM-DD as a date---even though that is the form it prints it in. It probably thinks it\'s a subtraction. So perhaps it wants to see it quoted? Nope---if you quote it you get [-3030] 120; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Data type mismatch in criteria expression." And indeed it will barf on ANYTHING quoted that I can dream up. In particular it doesn\'t like the obvious SELECT startdate, finishdate FROM pricing WHERE property = 8 AND startdate > "1999-06-02 00:00:00" I\'ve tried all sorts of things, reversing the date order to get 02-06-1999, us-style 06-02-1999, using slashes instead of minuses. In fact, it seems, incredibly, that it wants to see a number which is the number of days since 1900. For instance, try this: SELECT startdate, finishdate FROM pricing WHERE property = 8 AND startdate > 36250 About to go and do some sums and see if thsi theory is correct ... Can we PLEASE not use Access ever again? ;-) It sucks so much that even a microsoft-cynic like myself is gobsmacked. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9708,'Tue Sep 29 20:15:50 1998','Re: Access ODBC and dates',1,9707,' Will, Symperthies, I also would be very interested in the answer. I have never managed to get it to work eithier, you days theory sounds a class one (although remember 1981 is a M$ favorite as well). Let me know if you need a hand, and I will investigate as well. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9709,'Tue Sep 29 20:20:27 1998','Re: Re: Group Login',1,9705,' >>Cancel button does not work >This is an example of a more general problem involving >javascript:history.go(-1) [ or back(-1) ] and the browser\'s >back button. Actually its more of a javascript error, IE does not like back(-1), please use javascript:history.go(-1) throughout the site ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9710,'Tue Sep 29 20:32:21 1998','Re: Re: Re: Group Login',2,9709,' >>>Cancel button does not work >>This is an example of a more general problem involving >>javascript:history.go(-1) [ or back(-1) ] and the browser\'s >>back button. >Actually its more of a javascript error, IE does not like back(-1), please use javascript:history.go(-1) throughout the site There are still problems in Netscape with this. Needs some research. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9711,'Tue Sep 29 20:50:31 1998','booking system',1,0,' Dates need formatting to dd/mm/yyyy (both display and input) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9712,'Tue Sep 29 20:56:25 1998','new booking',1,0,' When going back to correct errors, we should keep the valuse that have been entered in the input boxes (valid or invalid). ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9713,'Tue Sep 29 21:01:48 1998','Access ODBC and dates solved',4,9708,' OK, it turns out that for >= date comparison with, for instance, 2000-04-05 00:00:00, you have to use a number which is the number of days between midnight at the start of january 1, 1900, and midnight at the start of 5th April 2000, plus two. Yes, I know this makes the epoch 30th December 1899. Perhaps that\'s when Bill\'s great- grandfather was born or something ... I can munge this into the search alright. Apologies for not spotting the problem myself ... ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9714,'Tue Sep 29 21:01:58 1998','remove people from booking',1,0,' need to allow removal of perple other than the last one ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9715,'Tue Sep 29 21:02:39 1998','Fixed',1,9661,' >Wire into database for phase 1 this just generates an email ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9716,'Tue Sep 29 21:02:53 1998','Re: Access ODBC and dates solved',4,9713,' Should point out, I do know about leap years and that 1900 was not while 2000 will be. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9717,'Tue Sep 29 21:09:47 1998','Re: Access ODBC and dates solved',1,9713,' Ha, you might like this better, but: SELECT Pricing.StartDate FROM Pricing WHERE (((Pricing.StartDate)>#1/1/98#)); appears to work! Try it. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9718,'Tue Sep 29 21:21:29 1998','ski school cost, ski pass cost',1,0,' These are not being recorded by the booking response. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9719,'Tue Sep 29 21:22:08 1998','customer confirm booking',1,0,' get error: Query `UPDATE Booking SET Flying = 1, Transfer = 1, Insurance = 1, Skipass = 1, SkiSchool = 1, Linen = 1, Comment = \'adsdsadsa\', WHERE id = 9\': [-3503] 1855; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in UPDATE statement." ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9720,'Tue Sep 29 22:07:57 1998','forward shortlists',1,0,' Need to be able to forward shortlists (both resort and properties) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9721,'Tue Sep 29 22:10:36 1998','group name',1,0,' Where do I enter group names? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9722,'Tue Sep 29 22:15:39 1998','customers',1,0,' need to generate customer numbers anddate of creation ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9723,'Tue Sep 29 22:19:00 1998','published status',1,0,' The spec states that Properties, Resorts and Domains will have a published status. There is no such database field at present. Do we need one? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9724,'Tue Sep 29 23:44:40 1998','Re: remove people from booking',3,9714,' >need to allow removal of people other than the last one Really? That\'s not clear to me. Certainly easier, though. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9725,'Wed Sep 30 9:01:58 1998','Fixed',1,9719,' >get error: >Query `UPDATE Booking SET Flying = 1, >Transfer = 1, Insurance = 1, >Skipass = 1, SkiSchool = 1, Linen = 1, >Comment = \'adsdsadsa\', >WHERE id = 9\': [-3503] 1855; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error in UPDATE statement." ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9726,'Wed Sep 30 9:05:58 1998','credit card confirm',1,0,' Query `UPDATE Booking SET BookingStatus = 4, DepMode = 2, BookMode = 3, BookDate = \'1998-9-30\' BalanceStatus = 2 WHERE id = 9\': [-3100] 1911; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression \'\'1998-9-30\' BalanceStatus = 2\'." ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9727,'Wed Sep 30 9:09:48 1998','Fixed',1,9726,' >Query `UPDATE Booking >SET BookingStatus = 4, DepMode = 2, BookMode = 3, BookDate = \'1998-9-30\' >BalanceStatus = 2 >WHERE id = 9\': [-3100] 1911; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression \'\'1998-9-30\' >BalanceStatus = 2\'." ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9728,'Wed Sep 30 10:05:06 1998','Re: booking system',1,9711,' >Dates need formatting to dd/mm/yyyy (both display and input) Nearly done, we have requested the server store dates in UK format to complete this fix. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9729,'Wed Sep 30 10:14:18 1998','fixed',4,9683,' well, probably! ;-) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9730,'Wed Sep 30 10:18:55 1998','fixed',4,9679,' >search drop downs should be alphabeticaly sorted sorted (groan) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9731,'Wed Sep 30 10:20:28 1998','fixed',4,9704,' >>Prevent the same challet being added twice >Yep, sorry, I had done this but not put it up. >(It actually just overwrites the previous one.) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9732,'Wed Sep 30 10:22:05 1998','fixed',4,9702,' is ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9733,'Wed Sep 30 10:38:31 1998','Re: Challet Results',4,9693,' >Display Dates correctly in price list fixed ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9734,'Wed Sep 30 10:41:07 1998','Search by Price',1,0,' Testing price of property `Alaska\' (id = `3\')Price unit `per chalet per week\' is not of the form`per/for person/chalet per/for (two/three) week(s)\' ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9735,'Wed Sep 30 10:42:17 1998','intermittent search error',23,0,' Im definitely getting an intermittent error on chalet search. Sometimes I get "No field `location\' in form; fields present are" (with nothing in the \'fields present\' list) and other times the same search works. ??? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9736,'Wed Sep 30 10:44:56 1998','Re: Ordering',1,9668,' >Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned: >a) alphabetically by property name >b) by price >c) other ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9737,'Wed Sep 30 10:59:42 1998','FIXED',2,9670,' >Get this working after login. >Also get cookies working for group ids Done (does MSIE choke on a content-type line after getting a HTTP Location line?) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9738,'Wed Sep 30 11:01:21 1998','Fixed',1,9736,' >>Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned: >>a) alphabetically by property name >>b) by price >>c) other Actually rekeyed to include APR distribution ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9739,'Wed Sep 30 11:01:47 1998','Ordering of results',1,0,' Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned: a) alphabetically by property name b) by price c) other ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9740,'Wed Sep 30 11:04:09 1998','Re: Re: Challet Results',1,9733,' >>Display Dates correctly in price list >fixed Should be dd/mm/yyyy. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9741,'Wed Sep 30 11:17:42 1998','FIXED',1,9737,' >>Get this working after login. >>Also get cookies working for group ids >Done (does MSIE choke on a content-type line after >getting a HTTP Location line?) MSIE working great online (I just have a problem locally), consider this FIXED ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9742,'Wed Sep 30 11:21:24 1998','Customer Number',1,0,' >>it will be: >> >>xxaaaayyb >> >change to byyaaaxxxx >b= Alpahabet char >yy = count 1-99 >aaa - first fours chars of surname >xxxx = year of creation, 1998 etc. Ben, I feel that it should infact be: yyyyaaaannb yyyy = year of creation, 1998 etc. aaaa - first fours chars of surname b = Alpahabet char nn = count 1-99 as this will put things in a better default sort order Thoughts? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9743,'Wed Sep 30 11:22:51 1998','add to shortlist',23,0,' the add to shortlist link on the chalet details page yields "unable to find file or directory cgi-bin/search/ChaletShortlistAdd.pl" ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9744,'Wed Sep 30 11:33:02 1998','maximum group size for property',1,0,' Ben, can we make this a mandatory field as if it is not present it will throw the search by price out completely. All \'real\' data entered so far has a maximum group size. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9745,'Wed Sep 30 11:36:36 1998','booking page',1,0,' can we have a link from the chalet name on the booking page to the chalet details ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9746,'Wed Sep 30 11:40:17 1998','Re: add to shortlist',1,9743,' >the add to shortlist link on the chalet details page yields >"unable to find file or directory cgi-bin/search/ChaletShortlistAdd.pl" Works fine for me (TimJ), can you reproduce this or let me know which chalet? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9747,'Wed Sep 30 11:42:15 1998','Add to shortlist',1,0,' Can we get rid of the screen where we type in the comments, and take the user straight to the shortlist to enter the comments (and select preferable properties). ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9748,'Wed Sep 30 11:44:39 1998','FIXED',2,9718,' (SkiSchoolCost & SkiPass Cost) >These are not being recorded by the booking response. SkiSchool cost now works. We need to discus how the ski passes work at a later date. Myles ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9749,'Wed Sep 30 11:48:01 1998','Re: intermittent search error',4,9735,' >Im definitely getting an intermittent error on chalet search. > Sometimes I get >"No field `location\' in form; fields present are" >(with nothing in the \'fields present\' list) >and other times the same search works. >??? Don\'t like the sound of this ... can you give details of what browser, circumstances, etc. in case something rings a bell? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9750,'Wed Sep 30 11:49:30 1998','Re: Re: Re: Challet Results',4,9740,' >>>Display Dates correctly in price list >>fixed >Should be dd/mm/yyyy. I thought you were going to fix up Access to output European-format dates? Otherwise no problem, I can change \'em round. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9751,'Wed Sep 30 11:53:56 1998','Re: Ordering of results',4,9739,' >Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned: >a) alphabetically by property name >b) by price >c) other I\'m ordering by property/resort name now. Price would be not as meaningful as it sounds because of the variation in group size, but would be possible. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9752,'Wed Sep 30 11:55:26 1998','fixed',4,9734,' >Testing price of property `Alaska\' (id = `3\')Price unit `per chalet per week\' is not of the form`per/for person/chalet per/for (two/three) week(s)\' ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9753,'Wed Sep 30 11:56:55 1998','wrong results; Re: Search by Price',4,9734,' alaska comes out too cheap (thanks tim) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9754,'Wed Sep 30 11:56:59 1998','price search',1,0,' My chalet (Alaska) is priced at £2000 per person per week and sleeps 10, and I am searching for chalets for less than £400 (no group size). Alaska is being selected by the search. I don\'t think it should be. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9755,'Wed Sep 30 11:57:24 1998','fixed',4,9753,' >alaska comes out too cheap (thanks tim) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9756,'Wed Sep 30 12:02:45 1998','fixed (all)',4,9674,' >>>>Also 11 results gives 3 pages, should ony do 2. no, think about it :) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9757,'Wed Sep 30 12:05:08 1998','Your Booking produces \'no output\'',20,0,' When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this: \'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output Ben Janes Nniol the Insanes ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9758,'Wed Sep 30 12:06:46 1998','not any more (fixed, see below)',4,9754,' >My chalet (Alaska) is priced at £2000 per person per week and sleeps 10, and I am searching for chalets for less than £400 (no group size). Alaska is being selected by the search. I don\'t think it should be. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9759,'Wed Sep 30 12:09:09 1998','backing',4,9710,' >>>>Cancel button does not work >>>This is an example of a more general problem involving >>>javascript:history.go(-1) [ or back(-1) ] and the browser\'s >>>back button. >>Actually its more of a javascript error, IE does not like back(-1), please use javascript:history.go(-1) throughout the site >There are still problems in Netscape with this. Needs some research. Is there an upshot? It\'s a nice thing to use since simple to code (!), quick to work, doesn\'t complicate user\'s browser history, etc. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9760,'Wed Sep 30 12:29:21 1998','Re: Re: add to shortlist',1,9746,' >>the add to shortlist link on the chalet details page yields >>"unable to find file or directory cgi-bin/search/ChaletShortlistAdd.pl" >Works fine for me (TimJ), can you reproduce this or let me know which chalet? Baffled, can we ensure we use absolute URLs (this would appear to fix the problem) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9761,'Wed Sep 30 12:33:20 1998','Re: FIXED',1,9748,' >(SkiSchoolCost & SkiPass Cost) >>These are not being recorded by the booking response. >SkiSchool cost now works. We need to discus how the ski >passes work at a later date. Ski pass cost now works, ski school cost now records the ski pass cost entered ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9762,'Wed Sep 30 12:35:08 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: Challet Results',1,9750,' >>>>Display Dates correctly in price list >>>fixed >>Should be dd/mm/yyyy. >I thought you were going to fix up Access to output >European-format dates? Otherwise no problem, I can >change \'em round. all changing the date formt does is change from yyyy/dd/mm to yyyy/mm/dd, you still have to switch things round yourself ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9763,'Wed Sep 30 12:37:36 1998','Re: maximum group size for property',20,9744,' >Ben, >can we make this a mandatory field as if it is not present it will throw the search by price out completely. All \'real\' data entered so far has a maximum group size. This is fine by me Ben Janes Nniol the Insane ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9764,'Wed Sep 30 12:38:11 1998','Re: Customer Number',20,9742,' >>>it will be: >>> >>>xxaaaayyb >>> >>change to byyaaaxxxx >>b= Alpahabet char >>yy = count 1-99 >>aaa - first fours chars of surname >>xxxx = year of creation, 1998 etc. >Ben, >I feel that it should infact be: >yyyyaaaannb >yyyy = year of creation, 1998 etc. >aaaa - first fours chars of surname >b = Alpahabet char >nn = count 1-99 >as this will put things in a better default sort order >Thoughts? This is fine Ben Janes Nniol the Insane ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9765,'Wed Sep 30 12:40:51 1998','Short lists again',20,0,' I just did a chalet search and added it to my short list, but, when I saw my short list, I only had that one chalet on the short list, not the other two I had previously added to it. It did not prompt me for a group login etc. Ben Janes ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9766,'Wed Sep 30 12:50:59 1998','Re: Your Booking produces \'no output\'',1,9757,' >When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this: >\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output Works for me, together with Johns problem, I am a little concerned. Does it fail every time? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9767,'Wed Sep 30 12:52:53 1998','FIXED',1,9763,' >>Ben, >>can we make this a mandatory field as if it is not present it will throw the search by price out completely. All \'real\' data entered so far has a maximum group size. >This is fine by me >Ben Janes >Nniol the Insane ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9768,'Wed Sep 30 12:53:47 1998','Re: Re: intermittent search error',23,9749,' Im using netscape 4 Im also having trouble recreating the error - but it really was happening - honest. heres the progression of events: hit the search button returns error hit the back button hit the search button returns error hit the back button hit the search button performs search no problem is it possibly caused by somebody simultainiously uploading a fix?? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9769,'Wed Sep 30 12:54:38 1998','Re: Re: Your Booking produces \'no output\'',20,9766,' >>When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this: >>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output >Works for me, together with Johns problem, I am a little concerned. Does it fail every time? It worked the time I clicked it, after I had created what appeared to be anothe Short List See \'Short Lists again\'for a better descrip. Ben Nniol the Insane ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9770,'Wed Sep 30 12:57:31 1998','Re: Short lists again',1,9765,' >I just did a chalet search and added it to my short list, >but, when I saw my short list, I only had that one chalet on the short list, not the other two I had previously added to it. >It did not prompt me for a group login etc. I think you started another shortlist (your original login was test, now it is nniol? Try logging in as test. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9771,'Wed Sep 30 13:05:14 1998','FIXED',2,9724,' >>need to allow removal of people other than the last one >Really? That\'s not clear to me. Certainly easier, though. Certainly wasn\'t easier to do :-) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9772,'Wed Sep 30 13:09:13 1998','Re: Re: Re: Your Booking produces \'no output\'',1,9769,' >>>When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this: >>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output >>Works for me, together with Johns problem, I am a little concerned. Does it fail every time? >It worked the time I clicked it, after I had created what appeared to be anothe Short List >See \'Short Lists again\'for a better descrip. I think we can put this down to a temporarily broken script (we are developing on these as you test, so this will happen occasionaly - but still worth flagging up :) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9773,'Wed Sep 30 13:10:11 1998','Re: Re: intermittent search error',23,9749,' ps it is still happenning try a chalet search with everything default except accommodation type = chalet ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9774,'Wed Sep 30 13:13:13 1998','not fixed - search summary results',1,9756,' >>Also need resort name in summary info Not present ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9775,'Wed Sep 30 13:16:15 1998','FIXED',2,9745,' >can we have a link from the chalet name on the booking page to the chalet details Done ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9776,'Wed Sep 30 13:22:11 1998','FIXED',2,9757,' >When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this: >\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output >Ben Janes >Nniol the Insanes The script didn\'t work for a bit, but does now. Unless it happens again, I consider this fixed. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9777,'Wed Sep 30 13:23:23 1998','Re: Re: Re: intermittent search error',1,9768,' I still can\'t reproduce, IE4 or NS4? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9778,'Wed Sep 30 13:27:06 1998','Problem entering Data (IE4 / Netscape)',20,0,' All, We have a problem, Clara, is entering SkiResort Information and when she tries to enter data into the Creche field, with netscape she can\'t enter at all, script error: Cant \'insert ,, into fields() values()\' or something like that. In IE4, it inserts text fine, but only upto a specific number of chacacters. Ben ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9779,'Wed Sep 30 13:28:45 1998','FIXED',2,9728,' >>Dates need formatting to dd/mm/yyyy (both display and input) >Nearly done, we have requested the server store dates in UK format to complete this fix. Server and all scripts changed ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9780,'Wed Sep 30 13:32:47 1998','Re: new booking',2,9712,' >When going back to correct errors, we should keep the valuse that have been entered in the input boxes (valid or invalid). Works fine for me (Netscape 4.0) and the javascript link works. Anyone else having trouble? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9781,'Wed Sep 30 13:48:45 1998','graphics up (reload index_old.html)',1,0,' hi have just uploaded all on server at www.iglu.com/html/index.html still need to sort out the following: 1. pixel difference between NS and msie on toolbar 2. meta refresh tag doesnt work, f*ck knows why 3. minimizing browser does strange things 4. havent checked how it all looks on msie3 yet 5. still need to animate logo krugs ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9782,'Wed Sep 30 13:50:05 1998','Re: graphics up (reload index_old.html)',1,9781,' I think we need to allow for more width and height, using the full browser area. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9783,'Wed Sep 30 14:07:36 1998','Re: Problem entering Data (IE4 / Netscape)',1,9778,' This appears to be a POST problem, limiting the amount of data that can be sent. It is very reproducable (try adding more information to creche facilitys for property 34). Anyone heard of anything like this? This best I can suggest is that we make the pages smaller (but not today) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9784,'Wed Sep 30 14:09:13 1998','call management',23,0,' when you hit \'call management\' from database administration you get \'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\call.pl\' script produced no output ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9785,'Wed Sep 30 14:34:10 1998','Re: call management',1,9784,' >when you hit \'call management\' from database administration you get >\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\call.pl\' script produced no output Call management is not a phase 1 deliverable, we will be doing it later. Link removed. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9786,'Wed Sep 30 14:40:16 1998','FIXED',1,9785,' >>when you hit \'call management\' from database administration you get >>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\administration\call.pl\' script produced no output >Call management is not a phase 1 deliverable, we will be doing it later. Link removed. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9787,'Wed Sep 30 14:40:52 1998','FIXED',1,9772,' >>>>When I click on \'Your Booking\' when I have two items in my short list, I get this: >>>>\'E:\iglu\cgi-bin\booking\booking_form.pl\' script produced no output >>>Works for me, together with Johns problem, I am a little concerned. Does it fail every time? >>It worked the time I clicked it, after I had created what appeared to be anothe Short List >>See \'Short Lists again\'for a better descrip. >I think we can put this down to a temporarily broken script (we are developing on these as you test, so this will happen occasionaly - but still worth flagging up :) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9788,'Wed Sep 30 14:57:11 1998','FIXED',1,9751,' >>Iglu - what order should the chalets (or resorts) be returned: >>a) alphabetically by property name >>b) by price >>c) other >I\'m ordering by property/resort name now. Price would be >not as meaningful as it sounds because of the variation >in group size, but would be possible. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9789,'Wed Sep 30 15:05:35 1998','FIXED',1,9716,' >Should point out, I do know about leap years and that >1900 was not while 2000 will be. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9790,'Wed Sep 30 15:06:05 1998','FIXED',1,9663,' >Build with graphics ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9791,'Wed Sep 30 15:06:55 1998','FIXED',1,9664,' >Bui;d Page ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9792,'Wed Sep 30 15:10:53 1998','FIXED',1,9774,' >>>Also need resort name in summary info >Not present ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9793,'Wed Sep 30 16:39:13 1998','Per room per night',1,0,' Testing price of property `Alaska\' (id = `3\')Price unit `per room per night\' is not of the form`per/for person/chalet per/for (two/three) week(s)\' ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9794,'Wed Sep 30 17:32:23 1998','Re: Re: Resort Search',1,9700,' >Need to get creche facilities and skischool working. Still outstanding ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9795,'Wed Sep 30 17:35:06 1998','FIXED',1,9759,' >>>>>Cancel button does not work >>>>This is an example of a more general problem involving >>>>javascript:history.go(-1) [ or back(-1) ] and the browser\'s >>>>back button. >>>Actually its more of a javascript error, IE does not like back(-1), please use javascript:history.go(-1) throughout the site >>There are still problems in Netscape with this. Needs some research. >Is there an upshot? It\'s a nice thing to use since >simple to code (!), quick to work, doesn\'t complicate user\'s >browser history, etc. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9796,'Wed Sep 30 17:39:43 1998','FIXED',1,9762,' >>>>>Display Dates correctly in price list >>>>fixed >>>Should be dd/mm/yyyy. >>I thought you were going to fix up Access to output >>European-format dates? Otherwise no problem, I can >>change \'em round. >all changing the date formt does is change from >yyyy/dd/mm to yyyy/mm/dd, you still have to switch things round yourself ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9797,'Wed Sep 30 17:40:56 1998','Re: Skiresort to chalet shortlist',1,9696,' >The link from ski resort details to challet shortlist doesn\'t work. This should read: The link from ski resort details to challet details work. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9798,'Wed Sep 30 17:46:40 1998','Re: Re: new booking',1,9780,' >>When going back to correct errors, we should keep the valuse that have been entered in the input boxes (valid or invalid). >Works fine for me (Netscape 4.0) and the javascript link >works. >Anyone else having trouble? The problem here is actulally netscape not behaving. On a javascript back, I would expect the browser to check the server to see if the page has changed. As the page is generated, I would expect the browser to rerequest it. IE does this, and concequentally resets all fields. Netscape just pics the page up from the cache (wrong) and therefor shows the fields in error (correct). The way round this is to populate the fields with the form variables if we have "gone back" to the form. The best way to do this is probably to pass the form instead of the record to template expansion. William will look into this, if successful, chippy can change the back functionality. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9799,'Wed Sep 30 17:48:19 1998','FIXED',1,9770,' >>I just did a chalet search and added it to my short list, >>but, when I saw my short list, I only had that one chalet on the short list, not the other two I had previously added to it. >>It did not prompt me for a group login etc. >I think you started another shortlist (your original login was test, now it is nniol? Try logging in as test. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9800,'Wed Sep 30 17:52:49 1998','Re: Re: Re: new booking',2,9798,' >>>When going back to correct errors, we should keep the valuse that have been entered in the input boxes (valid or invalid). >>Works fine for me (Netscape 4.0) and the javascript link >>works. >>Anyone else having trouble? >The problem here is actulally netscape not behaving. >On a javascript back, I would expect the browser to check the server Depending on user\'s preferences. I have "check once per session" set, but if you have "check every time" it will loose variables. There is therefore a quick fix - get Iglu to change browser settings. Myles > to see if the page has changed. As the page is generated, I would expect the browser to rerequest it. IE does this, and concequentally resets all fields. Netscape just pics the page up from the cache (wrong) and therefor shows the fields in error (correct). The way round this is to populate the fields with the form variables if we have "gone back" to the form. >The best way to do this is probably to pass the form instead of the record to template expansion. William will look into this, if successful, chippy can change the back functionality. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9801,'Wed Sep 30 18:00:47 1998','FIXED',1,9800,' >Depending on user\'s preferences. I have "check once per session" set, >but if you have "check every time" it will loose variables. There >is therefore a quick fix - get Iglu to change browser settings. Stupid me. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9802,'Wed Sep 30 22:56:40 1998','FIXED',1,9701,' >Need script to take people straight to a shortlist with the iglu frames surrounding. Fixed, also changed email template to reference correct script (needs moving out of /administration) when we reorganise. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9803,'Wed Sep 30 23:22:14 1998','fixed',4,9793,' >Testing price of property `Alaska\' (id = `3\')Price unit `per room per night\' is not of the form`per/for person/chalet per/for (two/three) week(s)\' ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9804,'Wed Sep 30 23:22:55 1998','fixed',4,9747,' >Can we get rid of the screen where we type in the comments, and take the user straight to the shortlist to enter the comments (and select preferable properties). ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9805,'Wed Sep 30 23:23:27 1998','fixed',4,9747,' >Can we get rid of the screen where we type in the comments, and take the user straight to the shortlist to enter the comments (and select preferable properties). ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9806,'Wed Sep 30 23:25:00 1998','how about now?',4,9760,' >>>the add to shortlist link on the chalet details page yields >>>"unable to find file or directory cgi-bin/search/ChaletShortlistAdd.pl" >>Works fine for me (TimJ), can you reproduce this or let me know which chalet? >Baffled, can we ensure we use absolute URLs (this would appear to fix the problem) The URLs are absolute now---tell me if it happens again. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9807,'Wed Sep 30 23:26:33 1998','action timj or someone',4,9764,' >>I feel that it should infact be: >>yyyyaaaannb >>yyyy = year of creation, 1998 etc. >>aaaa - first fours chars of surname >>b = Alpahabet char >>nn = count 1-99 >>as this will put things in a better default sort order >>Thoughts? >This is fine >Ben Janes >Nniol the Insane .... and it\'s implemented but fails with an error because the field in question is an int!!!!!!!!! Can someone change it to a char(11) (I think 11 is right) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9808,'Wed Sep 30 23:27:37 1998','fixed',4,9699,' >>>This does not work >>neither does the link to the challet shortlist or the resort shortlist >or the link to the resort ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9809,'Wed Sep 30 23:31:33 1998','Re: forward shortlists',4,9720,' >Need to be able to forward shortlists (both resort and properties) It\'s in place but doesn\'t seem to actually send the mail--- I just have to struggle with sendmail a bit. What I\'ve done is have it email the group username and password. Otherwise it must either (a) allow password-free access to the booking or (b) create a temp file, as implied in the Site Structure doc, which i gather timj is against ... Oh, I\'ve only done the chalet shortlist forwarding. Do we really want both? What if we forward both at once, would be more convenient for users? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9810,'Wed Sep 30 23:32:40 1998','fixed',4,9694,' >>Prevent the same challet being added twice >Also, can we keep the navigation from the resluts screens so that we can switch back and forth ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9811,'Wed Sep 30 23:33:21 1998','fixed',4,9692,' >>Remove comments from individual items >Actually I think this is OK, but we need to be able to change it. >We need more details on the shortlists and the ability to select prefered chalets / resorts. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9812,'Wed Sep 30 23:35:02 1998','Re: maximum group size for property',4,9744,' >Ben, >can we make this a mandatory field as if it is not present it will throw the search by price out completely. All \'real\' data entered so far has a maximum group size. by the way the same goes for number of rooms (nobed) ---any chalet priced per room per night/week will cause an error if it doesn\'t have a nobed ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9813,'Wed Sep 30 23:44:33 1998','FIXED',1,9783,' >This appears to be a POST problem, limiting the amount of data that can be sent. It is very reproducable (try adding more information to creche facilitys for property 34). Anyone heard of anything like this? TIMJ IS A BIT OF A WALLY ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9814,'Wed Sep 30 23:55:26 1998','fixed (chalet shortlist)',4,9809,' >>Need to be able to forward shortlists (both resort and properties) >It\'s in place but doesn\'t seem to actually send the mail--- >I just have to struggle with sendmail a bit. >What I\'ve done is have it email the group username >and password. Otherwise it must either (a) allow >password-free access to the booking or (b) create >a temp file, as implied in the Site Structure doc, >which i gather timj is against ... >Oh, I\'ve only done the chalet shortlist forwarding. >Do we really want both? What if we forward both at >once, would be more convenient for users? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9815,'Thu Oct 1 9:12:06 1998','shortlist',1,0,' Need link from chalet/resort shortlist to chalet/resort details. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9816,'Thu Oct 1 9:21:41 1998','Re: fixed (chalet shortlist)',1,9814,' >>It\'s in place but doesn\'t seem to actually send the mail--- >>I just have to struggle with sendmail a bit. I am getting the mail sent to me, what problems have you had with sendmail? Chippy had a little problem setting the paths (we need to pull these libraries together). >>What I\'ve done is have it email the group username >>and password. Otherwise it must either (a) allow >>password-free access to the booking or (b) create >>a temp file, as implied in the Site Structure doc, >>which i gather timj is against ... this makes perfect sense. >>Oh, I\'ve only done the chalet shortlist forwarding. >>Do we really want both? What if we forward both at >>once, would be more convenient for users? No, I think we should keep it seperate, and we do need resort forwarding. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9817,'Thu Oct 1 9:26:54 1998','add to shortlist',1,0,' When called from chalet details page, we still get a comment box, and then the error: Query DELETE FROM slist_prop WHERE grpid = 9 AND propid = Add:[-3010] 1242; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1." ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9818,'Thu Oct 1 9:29:05 1998','details pages',1,0,' Need to think about use of frames (probably remove them) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9819,'Thu Oct 1 9:32:30 1998','FIXED',1,9797,' >>The link from ski resort details to challet shortlist doesn\'t work. >This should read: >The link from ski resort details to challet details work. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9820,'Thu Oct 1 9:33:10 1998','Re: hello',1,9682,' FIXED ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9821,'Thu Oct 1 9:33:34 1998','FIXED',1,9820,' Sorry ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9822,'Thu Oct 1 9:34:19 1998','add to shortlist',23,0,' add to shortlist from within a chalet details page yields Error Query DELETE FROM slist_prop WHERE grpid = 23 AND propid = Add: [-3010] 1253; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1." but it works fine from the results page ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9823,'Thu Oct 1 9:35:02 1998','FIXED',1,9669,' >Default to todays date ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9824,'Thu Oct 1 9:35:40 1998','FIXED',1,9660,' >This node will be used for error reporting. Please start a new thread for each bug found. >cheers >TimJ ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9825,'Thu Oct 1 9:40:22 1998','Re: Re: fixed (chalet shortlist)',4,9816,' >I am getting the mail sent to me, what problems have you had with sendmail? Chippy had a little problem setting the paths (we need to pull these libraries together). nonono it\'s fine, it just wanted subdirectories called email creating ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9826,'Thu Oct 1 9:44:43 1998','fixed',4,9817,' >When called from chalet details page, we still get a comment box, and then the error: >Query DELETE FROM slist_prop WHERE grpid = 9 AND propid = Add:[-3010] 1242; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1." sorry ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9827,'Thu Oct 1 9:45:16 1998','Re: add to shortlist',4,9822,' >add to shortlist from within a chalet details page yields >Error >Query DELETE FROM slist_prop WHERE grpid = 23 AND propid = Add: >[-3010] 1253; 0; "Microsoft;[ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Too few parameters. Expected 1." >but it works fine from the results page fixed, sorry ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9828,'Thu Oct 1 9:47:27 1998','fixed',4,9827,' ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9829,'Thu Oct 1 9:52:14 1998','fixed',4,9815,' >Need link from chalet/resort shortlist to chalet/resort details. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9830,'Thu Oct 1 9:52:33 1998','fixed (tim)',1,9828,' Will, you are up early. I have also just fixed this, can you check that together we have not bodged it I only made changes to Details_Property_Details.html ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9831,'Thu Oct 1 9:55:03 1998','Re: fixed (tim)',4,9830,' >Will, you are up early. I have also just fixed this, can you check that together we have not bodged it I only made changes to Details_Property_Details.html not really, it\'s 10:53 here :) I just overwrote yours, hope it wasn\'t better ... ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9832,'Thu Oct 1 10:20:09 1998','FIXED',23,9806,' ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9833,'Thu Oct 1 10:31:13 1998','if was a problem, probably fixed',4,9690,' >These don\'t seem to be appearing We can\'t actually enter any comments at the moment because the db is locked but it works for me at home. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9834,'Thu Oct 1 10:51:46 1998','fixed, both chalet and resort (but tested only at home since iglu.com not there)',4,9825,' >>I am getting the mail sent to me, what problems have you had with sendmail? Chippy had a little problem setting the paths (we need to pull these libraries together). >nonono it\'s fine, it just wanted subdirectories called >email creating ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9835,'Thu Oct 1 11:21:47 1998','Re: Re: fixed (tim)',1,9831,' Back now, please upload ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9836,'Thu Oct 1 11:26:16 1998','FIXED',1,9812,' >>Ben, >>can we make this a mandatory field as if it is not present it will throw the search by price out completely. All \'real\' data entered so far has a maximum group size. > >by the way the same goes for number of rooms (nobed) >---any chalet priced per room per night/week will >cause an error if it doesn\'t have a nobed ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9837,'Thu Oct 1 11:41:19 1998','FIXED',1,9758,' >>My chalet (Alaska) is priced at £2000 per person per week and sleeps 10, and I am searching for chalets for less than £400 (no group size). Alaska is being selected by the search. I don\'t think it should be. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9838,'Thu Oct 1 11:42:14 1998','FIXED',1,9833,' >>These don\'t seem to be appearing >We can\'t actually enter any comments at the moment >because the db is locked but it works for me at >home. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9839,'Thu Oct 1 11:45:23 1998','FIXED',1,9794,' > >>Need to get creche facilities and skischool working. >Still outstanding ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9840,'Thu Oct 1 11:49:51 1998','chalet customer comments',4,0,' if no comment, get lone \'()\' on page ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9841,'Thu Oct 1 11:52:59 1998','FIXED',1,9807,' > >>>I feel that it should infact be: >>>yyyyaaaannb >>>yyyy = year of creation, 1998 etc. >>>aaaa - first fours chars of surname >>>b = Alpahabet char >>>nn = count 1-99 >>>as this will put things in a better default sort order >>>Thoughts? >>This is fine >>Ben Janes >>Nniol the Insane > >.... and it\'s implemented but fails with an error because >the field in question is an int!!!!!!!!! >Can someone change it to a char(11) (I think 11 is right) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9842,'Thu Oct 1 11:53:04 1998','fixed',4,9840,' >if no comment, get lone \'()\' on page ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9843,'Thu Oct 1 11:53:30 1998','FIXED',1,9721,' >Where do I enter group names? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9844,'Thu Oct 1 11:54:13 1998','Re: customers',1,9722,' >need to generate customer numbers anddate of creation still need date of creation ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9845,'Thu Oct 1 12:20:31 1998','redirection from email',1,0,' All, Can we please use http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/administration/our_details.pl as the script to name when sending info on emails (shortlists and bookings), this will build teh frame set etc so things look cool. to set the script query string: subject=script_name and an option id=n for a complete (working) example: http://www.iglu.com/cgi-bin/administration/our_details.pl?subject=booking_form&id=9 this script will live in /cgi-bin after the tidy up. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9846,'Thu Oct 1 12:44:16 1998','fixed (AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGHH!)',4,9844,' it didn\'t work for ages BECAUSE I WAS UPLOADING TO / NOT CGI-BIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! scream ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9847,'Thu Oct 1 14:25:23 1998','new design',1,0,' All, Kruger has done a new improved design that will give us more space for the data screens, please take a look (phase 1 site), and give any feedback. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9848,'Thu Oct 1 14:28:55 1998','Re: new design',1,9847,' 1) I am not sure about the animation, I think we could use a smoother (classier) animation using Flash technology. Comments? 2) The refreshing frame in the top right also is a bit dodgey, This should be replaced by some DHTML (nicked from www.discovery.com) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9849,'Thu Oct 1 14:35:38 1998','Plan for Phase 2',1,0,' I have put together the plan for phase 2 (see amended plan on paneris/iglu). Please take a look and let me know if I have got anything wrong. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9850,'Thu Oct 1 14:48:20 1998','Re: Re: new design',4,9848,' >1) I am not sure about the animation, I think we could use a smoother (classier) animation using Flash technology. Comments? If that happens then I\'m off the case. You can\'t get the plugin for Linux. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9851,'Thu Oct 1 14:49:07 1998','Re: Re: Re: new design',4,9850,' >>1) I am not sure about the animation, I think we could use a smoother (classier) animation using Flash technology. Comments? >If that happens then I\'m off the case. You can\'t get >the plugin for Linux. sorry, meant to add: :-) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9852,'Thu Oct 1 14:53:12 1998','Re: new design',4,9847,' >All, >Kruger has done a new improved design that will give us more space for the data screens, please take a look (phase 1 site), and give any feedback. It\'s very nice, attractive but not distracting. I absolutely hate animation or refreshing of any kind, though. Also it would be great if it could naturally fill the whole width of the frame. I\'m using a big font and there will only be room for the frms if I maximise the window and the display grows with it. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9853,'Thu Oct 1 14:54:51 1998','Re: Re: Re: Re: new design',1,9851,' >>>1) I am not sure about the animation, I think we could use a smoother (classier) animation using Flash technology. Comments? >>If that happens then I\'m off the case. You can\'t get >>the plugin for Linux. >sorry, meant to add: :-) Well, you have the source, why don\'t you invest an afternoon and write the plug-in :) ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 9854,'Thu Oct 1 14:59:35 1998','Server-Side Includes',1,0,' William, I would like to take much of the repeated html out of the templates, and put it in just a couple of files. When parsing the template can we look for something like [[include
between people would help also - maybe we could take the font size on the labels down a point or two and perhaps justify labels to the left edge of their corresponding boxes. all merely suggestions - Im wide open to ideas. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 10385,'Wed Oct 21 17:29:42 1998','short no frills software agreement',1,0,' Please can anybody who wants to comment on the following: All of the software supplied as part of the iglu project is avaiable for everyone involved to use and change in the future, provided that the original authors are acknowledged. Additionally, the software cannot be used by a competitor of iglu to supply holiday information services. This in not a legalally binding agreement. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 10386,'Wed Oct 21 17:30:07 1998','fixed',4,10365,' >Please be careful when changing template.pm Not guilty guv, I didn\'t change anything, it\'s just that it never DID work since the switch to the quicker template code ... :) (hmmm, it\'s quicker but it\'s now neither properly iterative like the old code nor properly recursive like the new one, in fact it\'s a hack but it is certainly quite fast). Also put a workaround in Iglu::currencyConversion for the sprintf-crashes-Activeware-Perl problem ... Updated Template.pm and Iglu.pm uploaded to cgi-bin. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 10387,'Wed Oct 21 17:36:45 1998','fixed',4,10386,' *&%!!$** half-composed message ... gist should be clear! ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 10388,'Wed Oct 21 17:39:17 1998','Re: short no frills software agreement',20,10385,' >Please can anybody who wants to comment on the following: >All of the software supplied as part of the iglu project is avaiable for everyone involved to use and change in the future, provided that the original authors are acknowledged. >Additionally, the software cannot be used by a competitor of iglu to supply holiday information services. >This in not a legalally binding agreement. Initally they wanted full Intellectual Property Rights to all source code, with the ability to give it without our say or acknowledgement to any one who invested in them!!! Scary or what. As I recall from College \'Computer Law\' courses, in comuter programs it is the thought that is copyrighted, the algorithm. I believe this is right. Ben Janes trying to remember his Uni Degree ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 10389,'Wed Oct 21 17:44:11 1998','Re: short no frills software agreement',4,10385,' >Please can anybody who wants to comment on the following: >All of the software supplied as part of the iglu project is avaiable for everyone involved to use and change in the future, provided that the original authors are acknowledged. >Additionally, the software cannot be used by a competitor of iglu to supply holiday information services. >This in not a legalally binding agreement. OK, but how about an additional stipulation that any work based on or containing the Program must also be distributed under the same terms? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 10390,'Wed Oct 21 17:47:08 1998','Re: FIXED',2,10340,' I have now re-updated Date.pm after it got clobbered. Watch out! >>It has been requested that the date fields in the booking form (property booking dates and transport dates - currently text boxes) be converted to drop down lists in the style of the property search dates. >>In order to accommodate this space wise, we could reorganise the layout of the booking fields thus: >>title - first name - surname >>transport required - place of departure departure >>date to leave - date to return >> >>etc >>also - none of the transport fields should be mandatory >I have now done this. Note that as a side-effect Date.pm has >been changed. It will now die if you try to create an invalid >date such as 29th of February during a non-leap year. ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 10391,'Wed Oct 21 18:14:19 1998','FIXED',2,10384,' > >>I have done this, but I don\'t think it\'s as clear as it was >>previously. Let me know what you think, John. > >I think that generally this is a better way of laying it out >it just needs a little tweaking to make it clear whats happenning >Maybe a
between people would help >also - maybe we could take the font size on the labels down a point or two >and perhaps justify labels to the left edge of their >corresponding boxes. >all merely suggestions - Im wide open to ideas. The changes work well - looks a lot better ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 10392,'Wed Oct 21 18:16:59 1998','FIXED',2,10348,' >Can we have a link to the terms and conditions page > from the booking form - just to emphasise the point? ','f','',64,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 10393,'Wed Oct 21 19:15:02 1998','Re: Re: short no frills software agreement',4,10389,' To expand a little, the usual thing with `open source\' (sometimes in a technical sense called `free\') software is to publish it under the GNU General Public Licence or the GNU Library General Public Licence. The LGPL is appropriate for library code such as Template.pm, Database.pm and so on. The library itself, or libraries/programs derived from it, can only be redistributed under the LGPL or the GPL, which means source code. Programs that merely use the library can be distributed under any terms at all---but they must o LGPL-distribute the any changes they made to the library o make available their objects (or source) so that you can modify the library and relink against their own code This means that Microsoft could use a GNU library in Office, without making Office itself free, but they would have to make it possible for you to rebuild Office against a modified version of the library! (And of course distribute freely any changes they made to the library.) The GPL is appropriate for an actual program, such as the Iglu-specific scripts. GPL\'d programs, and programs derived from or including them, can only be redistributed under the GPL. There are lots of other "yes, good point"-type clauses like: there is absolutely no warranty; copyright, no-warranty and license notices must be left intact; modifications must be logged prominently "so that any problems introduced by others will not reflect on the original authors\' reputations". To apply the GPL/LGPL we simply have to attach a standard notice to the top of every file, saying
\' is followed by only white space characters or nothing e) Record started with \'
Outstanding problems with New Scientist Processing
Date: August 19, 1998 (Updated November 16, 1998)
Since this was first noticed we have run 2 further updates where the latest volume is added to the front of the infobase. 1998 appears at the front of each new volume, so it is now coming out 3 times. On reflection this is obvious because the files are not reprocessed each time. I think the above examples may be instances where volumes were rerun in isolation.
I believe we have 2 choices here, either we insert additional processing to remove the year from the front of the \'clean\' fff, when we process for the next issue of the CD or we manually edit the previous first flat file as part of the production process. Any comments?
Please let me know the results of your findings asap.
Elizabeth Gale
Catalyst Electronic Publishing
','f','',68,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 11220,'Wed Nov 18 12:42:58 1998','Re: Re: NS fixes requirement FAO Liz Gale',3,11219,' >Is the command line bug the one we spoke about a few weeks ago when you >said we did not need to key in the full command? >You said we could get away with: > perl process_volumes.pl newsci > (ie leaving out the input and output pathnames) The above is correct, but I have also corrected the bug itself. >Apart from this there were 2 problems which I emailed you about in >August, I think. >I have attached the document as a word file and in html. >In fact I think that the first problem was corrected by Richard, but can >you please check that this is so. As far as I can see, from just looking at the code, this is the case. >The second problem is, I believe, a >flaw in the original design wnich we had not anticipated when we decided >that the files would only be processed once. What are your thoughts on >this? I think that we should run all files again from scratch, once we have safely archived the originals. This will highlight any problems. It is essential that any changes have been made to the \'input\' files, as they will othewise be lost on a re-run. As we said on the \'phone this re-run might be better after the 4.2 problems have been dealt with. yours timP ','f','',68,0,0); INSERT INTO messageboards (id,name,description,displayorder,deleted,attachmentpath,attachmenturl,messageboard_type_key) values ( 69,'PetArg','PetArg Project',869,'f','/usr/local/apache/share/htdocs/paneris/messageboards/attachments/PetArg/','http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/PetArg/',5); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 11221,'Sun Jan 10 21:12:30 1999','Petroleum Argus - Flat File to HTML conversion, inlcuding file sp',106,0,'Posted on behalf of LizG by TimP Tim Please find attached a copy of the details for the HTML conversion routine we require for Petroleum Argus. I am sorry I have yet again failed to put it up on your site. I will try to find time to do this from home in the next day or so. I have supplied the spec. as an Word \'97 document and in HTML. Theo should be able to supply some test data. Merry Christmas Liz Requirements ','f','',69,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 11222,'Sun Jan 10 21:14:23 1999','HTML File Splitting',106,0,'Posted on behalf of LizG by TimP Tim A Happy New Year to you! We have eventually managed to contact the relevant person at Petroleum Argus who is responsible for the HTML project. He does not like my proposed naming convention, as specified to you. We may need to run a comparison or some headings, such as \'Editorial\' against a list and output more meaningful names for these sections, then just \'page1\' etc for the headings that are not on the list. This item is still under discussion and I will let you know the final outcome as soon as I can, but I wanted to let you know of this hitch asap. We have also been asked to include the \'headline\' in the properties box when exporting to HTML. This assumes we will be using Word, and I do not know if you are. I also do not know what \'property\' he wants us to put the \'headline\' into and what the \'headline\' actually is. I will find all this out tomorrow morning - I hope - and let you know the outcome. Regards Liz ','f','',69,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 11223,'Mon Jan 11 10:53:24 1999','HTML File Splitter',107,0,' Tim Thanks for putting up my emails. Did you receive an updated copy of the spec. on Friday, by email? You should have done. You should also have received a CD ROM containing test data. Let me know asap if neither of these items has arrived Liz ','f','',69,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 11224,'Mon Jan 11 11:16:29 1999','HTML File Splitter for Petroleum Argus',106,0,'Posted on behalf of LizG by TimP Tim Sorry about the delay in getting back to you but it took some time to determine exactly what was needed by the US site who are to receive the data, and how we could meet those requirements. I have now attached a revised Specification in Word and HTML. I think the file naming has been simplified. The main difference in the Specification is the need to recognise specific sections in the infobases and treat them slightly differently to the general case - in terms of marking the end of the HTML file, and the content of the <title> field in the HTML. We need to get this part of the job completed asap. Yesteday I sent you a CD ROM containing the Views 4 infobase for one publication. Theo should have the others available when you require them. I am not working today - although if necessary I will be contactable at home. I will be in Catalyst again on Monday and can arrange to come in to meet you any other day next week, except Thursday. I will be in touch on Monday for a status report. Regards Liz ','f','',69,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 11225,'Mon Jan 11 16:31:29 1999','Record of Telecon',3,0,' Petroleum Argus Website : http://www.sagewave.com/ user: dpilgrim pwd: argusuk Click on sources. ','f','',69,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 11226,'Tue Jan 12 11:16:01 1999','HTML File Splitter Update',106,0,' Tim I have been in touch with Petroleum Argus re the current system for creating the HTML files you see on the Sagewave site. The existing Folio Version is created by converting the Quark Xpress output used for the hard copy into RTF then importing it into Word and running it against macros to get it into the correct format for Views,add in the jump links etc. These Word files are simply exported to HTML for the Sage project - a totally manual operation. I am awaiting a response from Theo re Word batch processing. Liz ','f','',69,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 11227,'Wed Jan 13 21:07:35 1999','HTML File Splitter',106,0,' Tim I hope you received my note on the existing system (posted Tuesday) and Theo\'s email containing a Word Batch Processing Macro. I had hoped to receive an indication of what you are able to achieve, and how long it will take by now. The customer phoned me today and I have promised to get back to him by tomorrow afternoon. I have told him that we cannot meet 15th Jan, but he needs to know what date we can aim for. I am not working for Catalyst tomorrow officially, but I will be available until 11.00am and after 1.00pm. I look forward to hearing from you. Liz ','f','',69,0,0); INSERT INTO messages (id,messagedate,subject,author,parent,message,deleted,identifier,board,score,status) values ( 11228,'Thu Jan 14 3:36:12 1999','HTML Batch conversion',3,0,'Posted on behalf of theo by TimP Tim, Happy New Year! Liz has just informed me that you are looking for a batch conversion macro to take files from Word to HTML....I have one which comes with Office\'97 and which I have attached. <